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Zingaro Sinking off Curacao - Live


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To my surprise, I warmed to him a bit after that.  He owned his errors, leant lots of lessons, and was generous to others.

I could argue that he should have learnt those lessons earlier in his travels, but that applies to me too.

I wish him well.

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35 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

To my surprise, I warmed to him a bit after that.  He owned his errors, leant lots of lessons, and was generous to others.

I could argue that he should have learnt those lessons earlier in his travels, but that applies to me too.

I wish him well.

what i've watched of this guy he seems like a decent no nonsense type a fella.

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Yeah, he didn't say it but the coast guard didn't come off that well. sailboat in distress taking on water with crew pumping and their first priority is to hassle the skipper about documentation?

lucky the volunteer lifeboat guys were there as well

those speed log thru hulls seem to be a hidden menace tho. no need for them either, gps is a good enough alternative but there are also versions that don't need a thru hull nowadays

 

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5 hours ago, robtoujours said:

those speed log thru hulls seem to be a hidden menace tho. no need for them either, gps is a good enough alternative but there are also versions that don't need a thru hull nowadays

 

When I built my boat I thought about how many times, in all the years I spent at sea, I cared about speed through the water versus speed over ground. And skipped fitting one. They never work accurately for long anyway.

My echosounder transducer is in a fully gasketed & bolted sea chest so that even if it catastrophically fails, it can't flood the boat.

FKT

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I think speed logs are slowly going the way of the "common logs" - or knotted ropes. With GPS/modern-chartpolotters and their ability to take current and everything else into account for calculating course/speed/ETA, the only times I find the traditional speed log truly useful is entering cuts, etc. when currents can quickly push you into the hard bits.

Even so, as FKT says, they are rarely accurate...and the paddle wheel needs constant cleaning if you want any hope of having it work. Beasties seem to love them as condos.

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2 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

the paddle wheel needs constant cleaning if you want any hope of having it work. Beasties seem to love them as condos.

Ultrasonic sensors are more robust and easier to clean.

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21 hours ago, chester said:

what i've watched of this guy he seems like a decent no nonsense type a fella.

He did a great job on that video. A lot of mistakes were made. I can see myself making some similar bad decisions when the cascade of failures starts. 

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On 3/8/2021 at 7:52 AM, robtoujours said:

I believe a crew member was in the cockpit operating a manual bilge pump

he started the video after he had found the source of the leak and put a bung in it

Yeah, but this isn't like a swamped Boston Whaler. He's got 20k lbs of ballast and bilge water wanting nothing more than to drag his boat straight down.

He thinks a thru-hull is to blame, well great, he's got a half dozen more that could go for no reason just like it (yeah I'm doubt this but it's his explanation).

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On 3/11/2021 at 10:17 AM, TwoLegged said:

Sure, a stint in the US Army (or Navy or Air Force or Marines etc) is a poor American's chance of free college and free or subsidised healthcare through the VA.  Other countries provide both opportunities to all their citizens without requiring them to pick up a gun and invade other countries as their ticket to education and medicine.

That economic conscription is a very ugly choice, but taking that sort of deal doesn't absolve anyone of moral responsibility for their actions.  

I took it and I'm proud of it. No absolution needed or desired. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

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3 hours ago, kinardly said:
On 3/11/2021 at 6:17 PM, TwoLegged said:

Sure, a stint in the US Army (or Navy or Air Force or Marines etc) is a poor American's chance of free college and free or subsidised healthcare through the VA.  Other countries provide both opportunities to all their citizens without requiring them to pick up a gun and invade other countries as their ticket to education and medicine.

That economic conscription is a very ugly choice, but taking that sort of deal doesn't absolve anyone of moral responsibility for their actions.  

I took it and I'm proud of it. No absolution needed or desired. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

If you are proud of being part of the army that hasn't had to defined it own territory since (AFAICR) 1812, but in the last two decades alone has invaded both Iraq and Afghanistan with hundreds of thousands left dead ... then that's your call.

But do remember that a lot of people in this world have very good reason to take a hostile view of your choice.  You see, some people really do get quite annoyed at invaders slaughtering lots of people and wrecking their country.

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Yes, I am proud of it and I also am a big proponent of the national military strategy to fight to win and that can best be accomplished when you are standing on your adversary's territory and your adversary is no longer standing to oppose you. I seem to recall some European allies had reason to approve of that in years past. To summarize succinctly, if you don't like it, don't pick a fight with me, then you will have no problem.

Now, with all due apologies, back to CA.

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7 minutes ago, kinardly said:

Yes, I am proud of it and I also am a big proponent of the national military strategy to fight to win and that can best be accomplished when you are standing on your adversary's territory and your adversary is no longer standing to oppose you. I seem to recall some European allies had reason to approve of that in years past. To summarize succinctly, if you don't like it, don't pick a fight with me, then you will have no problem.

Now, with all due apologies, back to CA.

I disagree with your position but, damn, you said it well. Respect! Thanks for keeping it civil!

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10 minutes ago, kinardly said:

Yes, I am proud of it and I also am a big proponent of the national military strategy to fight to win and that can best be accomplished when you are standing on your adversary's territory and your adversary is no longer standing to oppose you. I seem to recall some European allies had reason to approve of that in years past. To summarize succinctly, if you don't like it, don't pick a fight with me, then you will have no problem.

My objection is not so much to the American  "fight to win" strategy, as to the habit of picking fights all around the globe.  When you encounter your "adversary" only by traveling across oceans to their territory, then it's not them that's picking the fight. And the consequence of these fight is hundreds of thousands of civilian people dead or displaced. If those civilians are your "adversary", then you're in a bad place; and if they are not your adversary, then the wrong people ae being slaughtered.

Of course this applies equally to European nations that spent several centuries traipsing the globe looking for places to pillage.  Mercifully they have desisted.

Look at a map.  The USA has the most strategically secure situation of any major country.  The armed forces traipsing the globe are not defending America; they are fighting for access to the resources of other countries, just as the European colonists did in their time.

76 years ago, the USA was a leading partner in the establishment of the United Nations, whose primary objective was to end the "scourge of war".  It's a pity that the USA hasn't moved on beyond the "fight to win" aggression, and stopped being an exception the UN's remarkable achievement in largely eliminating the ancient process of using war to change regimes or grab resources or territory.

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On 3/15/2021 at 1:43 PM, CapnK said:

The Wynnes were travel vloggers, rv/van life people from wayyy back - 10 years or more. They built themselves an audience and a business over time by living the life. To no small degree they helped develop the genre into what it is today.

Here's what jumped out at me: ol' boy on Atticus is sitting there with a flathead poking holes into the bulkhead *right next to* the fairly new plumbing hardware it looks like he'd mounted there sometime recently, bemoaning the fact that they'd never noticed the "termite damage" and had never seen a termite....

Screenshot_2021-03-14 Sailing Project Atticus.png

You make an interesting point, I have never seen termite damage on a boat, has anyone here ever seen it?

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1 hour ago, olaf hart said:

You make an interesting point, I have never seen termite damage on a boat, has anyone here ever seen it?

Never. But I guess it could happen theoretically; especially if one wanted a new boat. 

I think they got tired of fixing what they had and saw all their friends on fancy condomarans. I understand their desire, but I’m not sure I could pull it off. 

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On 3/20/2021 at 12:32 PM, blunderfull said:

How’s weather in merry olde England?

And this video just puts me right back to my old opinion of James - shameless flogger of anything that will get him clicks. This one represents both a cross-promotion of another vlogger couple AND a clever leveraging of said wife's ass on James' channel (see 18:30).  James' chick who was offloaded during his "sinking" probably feels like crap since his camera seems to have been trained exclusively on the Aequus' wife's bod.

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So did he sink or not? Seems in poor taste to advertise a sinking and then not deliver. B)

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13 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

And this video just puts me right back to my old opinion of James - shameless flogger of anything that will get him clicks. This one represents both a cross-promotion of another vlogger couple AND a clever leveraging of said wife's ass on James' channel (see 18:30).  James' chick who was offloaded during his "sinking" probably feels like crap since his camera seems to have been trained exclusively on the Aequus' wife's bod.

Bonus. These are the same skills needed to succeed float to the top in ‘Murican Corporate Middle Management.

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21 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

...”his camera seems to have been trained exclusively on the Aequus' wife's bod.

I don’t blame James. I didn’t watch the whole thing but it looked like that Brit couple is starting their own YouTube channel and has been doing cameos on other well established channels to get “exposure”. Looks like they’re wealthy, he retired early, bought a big boatshow scow, got fake knockers for the missus and wants to be the next Riley. I bet they paid him. 

If I’m James and a guy paid me to film the wife and she shows up with a string bikini and the boobs hanging out, I’d be like “whatever dude, where’s the zoom button...” It never ceases to amaze me how many people want to pimp out their wife so they can ruin perfectly good sailing so they can work like a dog to make $159 a week on YouTube.

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12 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

Just about everyone of these bloggers have a sinking/rescue episode whenever their floorboards get wet. Bobby Doodles, Bums, Opd Seadog (with very dramatic music) all seem to have perilous voyages more than the usual. 

La Vag had one too, back when they were actually entertaining on the Bendy-Toe.  Can't remember if the stuffing box or a through hull failed, but he noticed his floorboards were floating.  He picked up his phone and Googled "what to do when your sailboat is sinking".

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20 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

In the ‘sinking’ video he says of the CG ‘they took the girl off the boat’. He has already forgotten her name 
 

 

Did she not make him French Toast?  

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12 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

I don’t blame James. I didn’t watch the whole thing but it looked like that Brit couple is starting their own YouTube channel and has been doing cameos on other well established channels to get “exposure”. Looks like they’re wealthy, he retired early, bought a big boatshow scow, got fake knockers for the missus and wants to be the next Riley. I bet they paid him. 

If I’m James and a guy paid me to film the wife and she shows up with a string bikini and the boobs hanging out, I’d be like “whatever dude, where’s the zoom button...” It never ceases to amaze me how many people want to pimp out their wife so they can ruin perfectly good sailing so they can work like a dog to make $159 a week on YouTube.

i think it's hubby shooting his wife's ass not James. and, you know, thanks.

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1 hour ago, paps49 said:

Why the hell is he using a bucket when there is a big ass manual pump at his feet??

'cos there is much less drama in a pump handle

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I can understand why batteries are kept in the bilge without any attempt at waterproofing on a 22' 4kn shitbox. But an Oyster? 

My house batteries were located in the engine bay which is sealed with rubber tight enough to need a inlet fan to get air in. The breather connected to a vent located on the cockpit wall high enough that the boat needed to be pretty much sunk before it was immersed. The main pos and neg bus bars and DC bus isolation switch terminals were all in the engine bay and high up on the engine bay wall.  

Engine battery was admittedly exposed, but sat in it's own bilge well under the cockpit floor with a stupid amount of lanocote/grease on the terminals with a bypass switch to switch between batteries if needed. There were the lowest terminals in the boat.  

All the electronic connections  were housed on top of the keel box under the table, at the nav table or mounted high on the cockpit walls under the cockpit. The only thing in the bilges was cable and conduits, not one terminal. Even the electric bilge pump was mounted high on the cockpit wall and the ultrasonic speed and depth log were terminated on top of the keel box. 

Not trying to say its anything special, its just common sense.  

Regards the chance that slings may have damaged the transducer, don't people know you can put 20c stickers on your deck to identify where to put the slings? Or use a fucking sharpie and mark it if your that tight to spring for a coupla stickers?

Not denigrating him per se, but the boat design. Pretty fucking stupid even for a numpty like me to put important electrical terminals in a bilge on a blue water boat. Unless he did fuck the transducer from the slings. That one you own, that's the skippers only job on a haul out.  

Edit: forgot about the swing keel electrical connections. They were lower than the top of the keelbox, but still a good 3' above the floorboards. 

 

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21 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

Not denigrating him per se, but the boat design. Pretty fucking stupid even for a numpty like me to put important electrical terminals in a bilge on a blue water boat.

Shaggy, AIUI his boat is a late 80s Oyster.  English built.

My impression of most English boatbuilders of that era is that they were very ad hoc:  poor systems design, lack of consistency and a lot of decisions made ad hoc by cheap labour, even on the posher brands.  So it wouldn't surprise me at all if that batteries-in-bilge folly was as built.

By contrast, Pogos are very thoroughly engineered.  I have only been one (a Pogo 30 at a boat show), and was so impressed by the engineering of everything that I spent a long time crawling around it.  My companion at that show sails a 1990s English boat, and he was stunned by the Pogo: I scan still picture his face as he turned to me and said in some shock "I didn't realise that boats had improved so much".   I replied "not all of them have improved as much as this one".

The next boat we visited was a J/112, where even on the deck walkabout, bad engineering jumped out at us.  Companion was so poor at hiding his contempt that I dragged him away fast, i case the saleswoman's scowl turned into an explosion.

So yes, your boat is more than a bit special.

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1 minute ago, TwoLegged said:

Shaggy, AIUI his boat is a late 80s Oyster.  English built.

My impression of most English boatbuilders of that era is that they were very ad hoc:  poor systems design, lack of consistency and a lot of decisions made ad hoc by cheap labour, even on the posher brands.  So it wouldn't surprise me at all if that batteries-in-bilge folly was as built.

By contrast, Pogos are very thoroughly engineered.  I have only been one (a Pogo 30 at a boat show), and was so impressed by the engineering of everything that I spent a long time crawling around it.  My companion at that show sails a 1990s English boat, and he was stunned by the Pogo: I scan still picture his face as he turned to me and said in some shock "I didn't realise that boats had improved so much".   I replied "not all of them have improved as much as this one".

The next boat we visited was a J/112, where even on the deck walkabout, bad engineering jumped out at us.  Companion was so poor at hiding his contempt that I dragged him away fast, i case the saleswoman's scowl turned into an explosion.

So yes, your boat is more than a bit special.

G'day Twolegged,

Thanks mate for the kind words, and you're scaring me at the same time. I (naively?) thought the Poms with such a seafaring pedigree wouldn't know how to build a shit boat if they tried. I've always considered Oysters to be way up there in terms of quality and engineering, admittedly I haven't set foot on one. 

Probably shows how much marketing can influence one's opinion.

Cheers!  

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25 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

G'day Twolegged,

Thanks mate for the kind words, and you're scaring me at the same time. I (naively?) thought the Poms with such a seafaring pedigree wouldn't know how to build a shit boat if they tried. I've always considered Oysters to be way up there in terms of quality and engineering, admittedly I haven't set foot on one. 

Probably shows how much marketing can influence one's opinion.

Cheers!  

Remember where Lucas electrics came from, and what they were (in)famous for...

My boat has a couple of wires in the bilge area but only for the bilge pumps and all the joins are potted for waterproofness. I'm about to run heavy cables for an anchor winch through there but all the terminations will be well above any likely flooding level. If they get immersed then the boat has sunk.

FKT

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17 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Shaggy, AIUI his boat is a late 80s Oyster.  English built.

My impression of most English boatbuilders of that era is that they were very ad hoc:  poor systems design, lack of consistency and a lot of decisions made ad hoc by cheap labour, even on the posher brands.  So it wouldn't surprise me at all if that batteries-in-bilge folly was as built.

In the 80's I ran a 1984 Camper Nicholson 60, it was a beautifully built boat and pretty well engineered too, with a few minor lapses. Early this millennium I owned a 1995 Oyster 61 that I sailed 20K miles from UK to NZ, ditto. Guess I just got lucky bracketing that toxic late 80's Brit boat swamp?

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26 minutes ago, CapDave said:

In the 80's I ran a 1984 Camper Nicholson 60, it was a beautifully built boat and pretty well engineered too, with a few minor lapses. Early this millennium I owned a 1995 Oyster 61 that I sailed 20K miles from UK to NZ, ditto. Guess I just got lucky bracketing that toxic late 80's Brit boat swamp?

C&N built great boats.  Wonderfully engineered.  But they pulled out of the boatbuilding business in about 1984.  You got the last of that.

Oyster in the 70 and 80s was mostly a marketing company, with hulls moulded by one contractor and fitout by one of another list of contractors.  They didn't actually become a fully inhouse manufacturer until after the 2018 Polina Star III-induced bankruptcy.  So I expect inconsistency.

But, CapDave, you were sailing boats from the top end of the market.  At that end of the market and in that size bracket, there is a much better chance that the build was properly supervised.

 

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