Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Have an older Cl16 that had been in the water for some time with a loose centerboard bolt. Even though taken out of the water after each use it resulted in badly water-logging  foam fill between cockpit deck and hull. Cockpit deck very soft.  Does any one have knowledge of construction - foam and plywood, stringers?

   About to cut open the cockpit but received a suggestion that splitting the hull might be better. Not sure if splitting would work with what I can see of construction - CB trunk attached both hull and shell. Perhaps other area near bow same. Would greatly appreciate thought/suggestions .

Hugh

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, hubot said:

  

You mean like that above?

"About to cut open the cockpit but received a suggestion that splitting the hull might be better. Not sure if splitting would work with what I can see of construction - CB trunk attached both hull and shell. Perhaps other area near bow same. Would greatly appreciate thought/suggestions .

Hugh"

 

I think I'd stick with the cockpit. Splitting the hull would be the whole hull. Foredeck is different piece.

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply. Opened the cockpit deck. All the foam completely saturated. The stuff that was in there should never have been on any boat - you could ring it out like a sponge. On other hand things better than i had feared. The cockpit layup/support could have been better and there was some de lamination in the center areas where it would take the crew weight.  In any case does not look to be formidable.

    I thought when I got rid of my 1912 Crowinshield and switched to plastic that I would be maintenance free. Not to be.

Hugh

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah but at least the B.B. didnt come with intchimg powder.

Oh and foam. It is amazing what freeze thaw will do to any of them. Kledge airex corecell doesnt matter. They all vecome sponges.

If you leave water in bilge of a foam cored boat or foam cored floors stringers you will eventually have waterlog. Just likr wood.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a cl 16 that will act waterlogged sometimes, and has a fracture on the top of the CB case that needs repair.  I am more experienced on working on wooden boats than GRP, but this needs to get done.  Any chance you could post some photos of your cockpit demolition, removal, and re-install?  I know it's not rocket science--but my motto is, for every solution two problems.  I have a backup on repairs going on right now and streamlining this one would be a big help to getting boats on the water as Spring moves in. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

In my case there was no doubt about water logged foam. Reaching in through the CB bolt access you could feel the squishy foam. I just completed cutting out portions of the cockpit deck along both sides of the CB trunk. Each side contained roughly 5 or 6 feet of 9" x 2" foam that was complete trash. I cut about 3" in from the trunk and 7 or 8" from the coaming from the start of the trunk to about 3" from the after bulkhead. There is a small drain hole from this area to the lazarette. There is a very light gauge stringer about 5" from the coaming running part way from the aft bulkhead to the length of the trunk.

The CB bolt was very loose and I am sure it had been sailed for some time with the space between hull and cockpit decking completely under water.

The cockpit deck was single layer without any core. It looks like it was originally strengthened by adding a second layer of glass after the topsides came off the mold and before attaching to the hull. This may have been OK for a while, but years of overweight sailors demolished the bond and there is quite a bit of delamination.

I will try to send some picture in next few days.

hubot

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the description and photos if you get to it.  A distorted or loose CB axle gasket will cause water to pour in, as you mentioned.  I generally do a light tighten every trip, if I remember it.  We sail this boat more than our Flying Dutchman and our Coquina, because it planes, and it is mostly less trouble than either of our two wooden sailboats.  When I first got the boat I didn't realize there was an additional drain on the hull, at the bottom of the CB case, which is reachable only through the ports in the CB trunk.  So I filled the boat up for a while out of ignorance.  That was maybe 4 years ago.  We also sank the boat in a ferocious storm in Tahoe last year, and I dug it out of silt in 4 feet of water two days later.  It popped up and was none the worse for the wear.  Either way, I would like to do a mild rehab on the boat as March turns into April.  I have the good luck of a million projects right now.  Today, instead of working on boats, I am undercoating a Sequoia which I seem to back into salt water a couple of times  a month, and it is showing with some undercarriage rust.  Dave

Link to post
Share on other sites

Centerboard bolts that simply bolt through are actually a faiulty design. Most common, but faulty. The correct way to do a CB pivot bolt takes the gasket loading inependent of the pivot. MY old Jon Wright Penguin was built with a pivot that was supported through and gasketed but the gasket was not tightening the cb case log.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, agreed, and this design (the CL 16, Wayferer copy) puts the PSI onto the inside of the CB case.  This means the board constantly works it, until it loosens, or something gets damaged.  If I did a real restore, I would change the way the CB hangs, or perhaps put in a different CB. I have at least three laying around, one of which is a 505 board.  If I went to that trouble I would sell it and build an Oughtred Fulmar and not spend that much time on it.  But I don't want to derail the OP's thread into a discussion of my boat.  As they say, "it's all good."  These are first world problems.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I opened both sides of the cockpit and removed about a 60 or 70 pounds of wet foam. Portions of this deck was seriously delaminated. Fortunately areas along the sides and trunk mostly OK. Per previous it looks like builder added a second layer of mat after top was removed from mold - don't know what happened but the two layers separated and I could take them apart mostly by hand. Somewhere along the line someone added a layer of white gelcoat over the original non skid. Of course gel coat very bad shape. I am nearing the end of taking it all off. Fastyyacht was right - B B Crowinsheild's dust did not sting.

  Replacing foam with XPS foam in multiple pieces contained within sealed 6 mil bags. I took out not much more than a cubic foot of foam which is not the 40% buoyancy that I was expecting. Perhaps more is in the sealed bow section? Will add as much as  I can get in. By the way, some XPS foams such as Owens Corning Foamular I found is compatible with some epoxy resins - at least West System and TotalBoat.

Finally. About 25 years ago helped in repair of a sailing dingy. The CB trunk was too weak. We put in bronze busing for the board to swivel on as per attached diagram. This is still holding except rubber grommets replaced twice. Biggest difficulty is matching sizes and getting things lined up.

CL16 Swivel For CB.jpg

CL16 Remove Gelcoat Layers.JPG

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion, freeze/thaw while wet or under even a small head is the killer of all things foam, closed cell, pu, pe, ps, xps, fancy shit be damned. These foam double bottoms are guaranteed to fail because they get full of water all winter.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that foam in inaccessible places will likely fail - eventually. Unfortunately I do not know of another alternative but to protect it as best one can. Sooner or later someone will forget to secure the drain, a structural failure somewhere, a knockdown, or even a wave investigating the lazarette being left open. The foamular 250 is quite moisture resistant but as you state it probably would not survive downeast winters when wet. To avoid this am bagging it in very heavy heat sealed plastic bags. Not being exposed to sunlight they should last quite a while.

I once kissed a submerged log that had a big spike on it. Fortunately contact was right at waterline and we could put bandaids on the damage. -If deeper I don't know if we would have been successful. Big lead keel would have required a lot of flotation. Bailing cockpit one thing, getting water out of other areas quite a challenge.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, hubot said:

I agree that foam in inaccessible places will likely fail - eventually. Unfortunately I do not know of another alternative but to protect it as best one can. Sooner or later someone will forget to secure the drain, a structural failure somewhere, a knockdown, or even a wave investigating the lazarette being left open. The foamular 250 is quite moisture resistant but as you state it probably would not survive downeast winters when wet. To avoid this am bagging it in very heavy heat sealed plastic bags. Not being exposed to sunlight they should last quite a while.

I once kissed a submerged log that had a big spike on it. Fortunately contact was right at waterline and we could put bandaids on the damage. -If deeper I don't know if we would have been successful. Big lead keel would have required a lot of flotation. Bailing cockpit one thing, getting water out of other areas quite a challenge.

I'd epoxy coat the crap out of it and most important be sure there is a drain at the aft end that you can open to drain that space. As long as water never gets to stand there for weeks on end and through the winter, all will be good. I don't think plastic bags will stay tight for some reason. Why not epoxy the foam in? It isn't like you can get it out and replace it like we do with Thistles.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...