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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

You are from the land of OZ?
America does not have a revenue problem. Nor does it really have an insufficient infrastructure. What it has is a spending problem. That was the point..... and they are taxing the middle class out of existence to pay for it all. See there is this elite ruling class in America..... they really don't do jack shit except line their own pockets.....half the damn country is good with that so long as they get something for free. Now free in America might not mean the same thing as free in Australia.... you see in America they pass 1.9 trillion dollar spending sprees, costs every damn person a little more than $5000.00, and if you are lucky, you might get a check for $1400.00 economic stimulus from Uncle Sam.
I used to think the left was wrong to say that too many Americans are too stupid to be making decisions of how to live their lives....... I am coming around though. It is just that I am not thinking that we agree on who that group of people are and how they vote. But hey, they are the self-described enlightened ones.

I don't recall your objection to the $1.9 trillion given as tax breaks to the uber-wealthy.  You should be even more concerned about that, as it also cost each person a little more than $5,000.00 and not one damn cent of it came to those who needed it the most.

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12 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

I don't recall your objection to the $1.9 trillion given as tax breaks to the uber-wealthy.  You should be even more concerned about that, as it also cost each person a little more than $5,000.00 and not one damn cent of it came to those who needed it the most.

Ahhh, there you go, mind reader are we now? Cut the BS nonsense.

What I really find objectional is class warfare. To demonize the successful, to promote envy, to push a false narrative that some owe society and must pay in the form of vastly higher taxes than the median.
Couldn't be more ugly and send a worse message. Essentially you are arguing that success is bad and in doing so you make a tacit declaration that failure is acceptable and.... that it isn't your fault.  
Most damaging.
Such a narrative is very hurtful to a greater society. It is damning because in essence you are declaring a large segment of society as abject losers. I do not believe nor accept a government or political leader who has such disdain for those they seek the support of. Our goal as a society should be to give opportunity that individuals can succeed, not to damn them to a life of government dependency.

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22 minutes ago, quod umbra said:
13 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

I don't recall your objection to the $1.9 trillion given as tax breaks to the uber-wealthy.  You should be even more concerned about that, as it also cost each person a little more than $5,000.00 and not one damn cent of it came to those who needed it the most.

Ahhh, there you go, mind reader are we now? Cut the BS nonsense.

What I really find objectional is class warfare. To demonize the successful, to promote envy, to push a false narrative that some owe society and must pay in the form of vastly higher taxes than the median.
Couldn't be more ugly and send a worse message. Essentially you are arguing that success is bad and in doing so you make a tacit declaration that failure is acceptable and.... that it isn't your fault.  
Most damaging.
Such a narrative is very hurtful to a greater society. It is damning because in essence you are declaring a large segment of society as abject losers. I do not believe nor accept a government or political leader who has such disdain for those they seek the support of. Our goal as a society should be to give opportunity that individuals can succeed, not to damn them to a life of government dependency.

You start off by saying I trying to read your mind, and then veer off into telling me what I think.  Hypocrite.

If you objected to the 2017 $1.9 billion giveaway, cite it.  Otherwise, that's just ANOTHER example of your hypocrisy.

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3 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

If you objected to the 2017 $1.9 billion giveaway, cite it.  

I heard the porter telling a new passenger that this was the new fare on the Fiscal Responsibility Express.  That might keep the ridership down. 

btw, it wasn't a giveaway.  America's true entitlement class earned their birthright. 

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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

Ahhh, there you go, mind reader are we now? Cut the BS nonsense.

What I really find objectional is class warfare. To demonize the successful, to promote envy, to push a false narrative that some owe society and must pay in the form of vastly higher taxes than the median....

In other words, you're against "class warfare" in the form of the lower classes actually fighting back?

Funny thing, those cited as the greatest eras in history are the ones where the benefits of socio-economic structure were pushed down to be available to the greatest majority of people. Those who presided over such times/places, whether by deliberate policy or by accident, are considered the greatest leaders in history

Those who have pushed for greater concentration of wealth & privilege are celebrated by nobody, not even the 0.01%ers who benefit. Goddam ingrates!

- DSK

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16 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

Those who have pushed for greater concentration of wealth & privilege are celebrated by nobody,

Oh I disagree. The few people who do have the benefit of expenditures by the Best Americans are big fans of giving them that to which they are entitled, namely money borrowed on the credit of all Americans. We see it here every day. These folks have no interest in fiscal responsibility, they have an interest in the people who pour their food into their bowl getting more money on the backs of all the rest of us. Rising tide lifting all boats? Fuck that, let the rising tide lift the yachts and sink the boats! 

This bill could have been and should have been paid for by repealing the Emergency Relief for Billionaires Act of 2017, which was supposed to be a boon for all Americans yet nixing it is somehow class warfare. 

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39 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Oh I disagree. The few people who do have the benefit of expenditures by the Best Americans are big fans of giving them that to which they are entitled, namely money borrowed on the credit of all Americans. We see it here every day. These folks have no interest in fiscal responsibility, they have an interest in the people who pour their food into their bowl getting more money on the backs of all the rest of us. Rising tide lifting all boats? Fuck that, let the rising tide lift the yachts and sink the boats! 

This bill could have been and should have been paid for by repealing the Emergency Relief for Billionaires Act of 2017, which was supposed to be a boon for all Americans yet nixing it is somehow class warfare. 

Just an interesting little tidbit from the "Class War" ...

How many hundreds of millions of dollars did the CEO of MacDonalds pocket in the year that he declared to the US Congress: "We cannot afford to give MacDonald's employees a raise"

- DSK

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Just an interesting little tidbit from the "Class War" ...

How many hundreds of millions of dollars did the CEO of MacDonalds pocket in the year that he declared to the US Congress: "We cannot afford to give MacDonald's employees a raise"

- DSK

There's been a class war in the US since about 1980 if not earlier, it's just that only one side has been fighting it. 

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Those who have pushed for greater concentration of wealth & privilege are celebrated by nobody, not even the 0.01%ers who benefit. Goddam ingrates!

- DSK

And the remedy is not draconian confiscation of wealth. The remedy is to allow more Americans access to wealth through education and opportunity.

So we circle back to educational vouchers as the vehicle to achieve that sir.

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4 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

And the remedy is not draconian confiscation of wealth. The remedy is to allow more Americans access to wealth through education and opportunity.

So we circle back to educational vouchers as the vehicle to achieve that sir.

As long as the schools take all students who apply.

Once they start eliminating candidates due to learning differences and/or medical issues - nope.

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1 minute ago, quod umbra said:
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Those who have pushed for greater concentration of wealth & privilege are celebrated by nobody, not even the 0.01%ers who benefit. Goddam ingrates!

 

And the remedy is not draconian confiscation of wealth. The remedy is to allow more Americans to wealth through education and opportunity.

So we circle back to educational vouchers as the vehicle to achieve that sir.

No, we don't unless the "vouchers" distribute money to all schools fairly.

Subsidizing segregation is only going to achieve more segregation.

Furthermore, equitable distribution of the tax burden is hardly "draconian confiscation."

I'm guessing you are deliberately ignoring the question

12 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

How many hundreds of millions of dollars did the CEO of MacDonalds pocket in the year that he declared to the US Congress: "We cannot afford to give MacDonald's employees a raise"

The "golden age" of US economic growth featured a top marginal tax rate ~ 90%

This allowed a lot of serious investment in schools, infrastructure, etc etc. Draconian? Only if your ideal is to live like a feudal lord, and are willing to live under the lash of being feudal peasant if you fall short of it

- DSK

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2 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

You start off by saying I trying to read your mind, and then veer off into telling me what I think.  Hypocrite.

If you objected to the 2017 $1.9 billion giveaway, cite it.  Otherwise, that's just ANOTHER example of your hypocrisy.

Sorry, your train of logic is lost in that statement.
I in no way tried to read your mind. What I did was to tell you my take on those who believe class warfare is productive rather then destructive. If that makes me a hypocrite, then so be it.

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

As long as the schools take all students who apply.

Once they start eliminating candidates due to learning differences and/or medical issues - nope.

Doesn't have to be all schools, that is the whole point of school choice. Some can cater to exceptional students. Some can cater to those who are average learners.... and some to children with disabilities.
One size need not fit all. Rather a parent can  pursue the school which best serves their child's needs.
Public schools, by definition, cannot do that as everything they do is a compromise.

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You may be shocked to learn that public schools can and do provide all of that.  And that they can do it quite well.  And that they do it for the full spectrum of the population, not just the select few who have special needs and rich parents or are willing to profess belief in some supernatural story.  

All it takes is a willingness of the majority to grasp and support the concept that an educated population is to the benefit of all, and is the proper purview of our common government. 

Not agenda driven instructors in a church or the corporate grifters.

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5 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Sorry, your train of logic is lost in that statement.
I in no way tried to read your mind. What I did was to tell you my take on those who believe class warfare is productive rather then destructive. If that makes me a hypocrite, then so be it.

As long as we have socialism for the wealthy and capitalism for the poor, "class warfare" in this country will always be a top-down phenomenon.  Getting corporate tax cuts and subsidies while bemoaning any ruffling of feathered nests coming from the bottom.

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5 hours ago, quod umbra said:

And the remedy is not draconian confiscation of wealth. The remedy is to allow more Americans access to wealth through education and opportunity.

So we circle back to educational vouchers as the vehicle to achieve that sir.

Public schooling is an amazing american innovation. Led to a massive uprising of wealth across the classes. Except, the folks who's memory fails when they try to think back more than 2 generations feel that this amazing innovation is discriminatory against the wealthy, as, well, how can they benefit? Oh, I know, let's pay for their kids to enroll in small private institutions that perpetuate class divisions!  Yeah, that's it! dumbass.

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Kids I went to grade school with, who then went on to High School at Exeter, Andover, Mount Herman, Suffield, etc. All thought that they had a better education than those of us who stayed local.

But while they may have had a foot in the door at Yale, Harvard, Dartmouth, Princeton, etc. they, none of them, did any better than the majority of the kids that stayed in the local school system in the long run.

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5 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Doesn't have to be all schools, that is the whole point of school choice. Some can cater to exceptional students. Some can cater to those who are average learners.... and some to children with disabilities.
One size need not fit all. Rather a parent can  pursue the school which best serves their child's needs.
Public schools, by definition, cannot do that as everything they do is a compromise.

If you want your kid to go a school that only takes "exceptional" students, you can do that now.

You just have to pay for it

We can all understand why you want a voucher system so others will pay for it, but how fucking selfish and stupidly greedy do you have to be for this to seem fair?

- DSK

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6 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

This allowed a lot of serious investment in schools, infrastructure, etc etc. Draconian? Only if your ideal is to live like a feudal lord, and are willing to live under the lash of being feudal peasant if you fall short of it

- DSK

That's the amusing part of the right wingers attitude to wealth concentration.

They think that they'll be the feudal lord but 99.99% of them end up serfs.

Stupid fucks never learn.

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40 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

That's the amusing part of the right wingers attitude to wealth concentration.

They think that they'll be the feudal lord but 99.99% of them end up serfs.

Stupid fucks never learn.

Oh that is as dumb as it gets.
America is, or was about opportunity. The more we can help people achieve The American Dream the better. Conversely, redistributionism destroys  The American Dream.
Sadly you guys just don't get it. I feel bad for you thinking half of the country is a bunch of losers who NEED government dependency to make it. Your political leaders have lied to you and you have fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
So sad, so sad.

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3 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Oh that is as dumb as it gets.
America is, or was about opportunity. The more we can help people achieve The American Dream the better. Conversely, redistributionism destroys  The American Dream.
Sadly you guys just don't get it. I feel bad for you thinking half of the country is a bunch of losers who NEED government dependency to make it. Your political leaders have lied to you and you have fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
So sad, so sad.

Can you point out ONE thing that I said which promotes "government dependency"??

Go ahead and point out more than one, if you got 'em

America is indeed the land of opportunity (except for the Indians, and they're got a little back with the casinos) which must be why you want others to pay for your kids schooling

- DSK

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47 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

If you want your kid to go a school that only takes "exceptional" students, you can do that now.

You just have to pay for it

We can all understand why you want a voucher system so others will pay for it, but how fucking selfish and stupidly greedy do you have to be for this to seem fair?

- DSK

Okay, you are doubling down on being a dumbass.
People who send their kids to private school, pay twice. So yes they would benefit from vouchers.
However, people who cannot afford private schools are stuck with public schooling.... and public schooling in their district. Bad district? Tough ass. Your kid is gonna be lost and the school board and teacher's union just don't care. How is that fair?
Better idea is a voucher system where parents can decide where best to send their kids to give them every advantage....rather then destined to fail base on zip code.
Third point, and try and pay attention. In New York State it is twice as expensive for a student to be educated in the public school system than it is to be educated in a private school on average.....

So in New York Public Schools we pay twice as much (when compared to a private education) and get a far inferior education...... and that is what you think is the better way.

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4 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Can you point out ONE thing that I said which promotes "government dependency"??

Go ahead and point out more than one, if you got 'em

America is indeed the land of opportunity (except for the Indians, and they're got a little back with the casinos) which must be why you want others to pay for your kids schooling

- DSK

Every thing you espouse is based on government dependency.
Public Education is a prime example.

You really are clueless on what school vouchers are, what they achieve.

Did you know in NYC the biggest proponents and supporters af school choice are minority communities? Why is that do you think?

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17 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Every thing you espouse is based on government dependency.
Public Education is a prime example.

You really are clueless on what school vouchers are, what they achieve.

Did you know in NYC the biggest proponents and supporters af school choice are minority communities? Why is that do you think?

Well, golly, I had no idea

Obviously you are a superior type who could do best with no government

Why don't you move to Somalia? I'm sure you would thrive there, with maximum freedom

and NO taxes!!

BTW vouchers would only be fair to taxpayers who support public schools, if those with no kids in school (such as myself) did not have to pay taxes to support schools we don't use.

The fiscal structure you support as "vouchers" is a subsidy to the wealthy for private schools

- DSK

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56 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Oh that is as dumb as it gets.
America is, or was about opportunity. The more we can help people achieve The American Dream the better. Conversely, redistributionism destroys  The American Dream.
Sadly you guys just don't get it. I feel bad for you thinking half of the country is a bunch of losers who NEED government dependency to make it. Your political leaders have lied to you and you have fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
So sad, so sad.

You sound like the idiots that supported the robber barons. Hint: It took massive social unrest to get those fuckers out of their monopolitic power trips and get the economy really going again. Too bad, like lice, the fuckers keep coming back.

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26 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, golly, I had no idea

Obviously you are a superior type who could do best with no government

Why don't you move to Somalia? I'm sure you would thrive there, with maximum freedom

and NO taxes!!

BTW vouchers would only be fair to taxpayers who support public schools, if those with no kids in school (such as myself) did not have to pay taxes to support schools we don't use.

The fiscal structure you support as "vouchers" is a subsidy to the wealthy for private schools

- DSK

To be fair, the wealthy do get the biggest tax advantages, vouchers would just give them a little bit more of what they are entitled to.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

The fiscal structure you support as "vouchers" is a subsidy to the wealthy for private schools

Have the oligarchs forgotten that schools were designed to assure a steady supply of meat for the grinders of commerce? Perhaps only uneducated consumers are needed in this new paradigm?

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2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

You sound like the idiots that supported the robber barons. Hint: It took massive social unrest to get those fuckers out of their monopolitic power trips and get the economy really going again. Too bad, like lice, the fuckers keep coming back.

He, like his elk, has no knowledge of history (well, except for a dead language) or economics.

A handful of people holding as much money as the bottom 1/2 of society is the path to riches for everyone.

Ensuring a modicum of economic fairness is making everyone dependent on government handouts.

Dumb as dishwater.

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6 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

He, like his elk, has no knowledge of history (well, except for a dead language) or economics.

A handful of people holding as much money as the bottom 1/2 of society is the path to riches for everyone.

Ensuring a modicum of economic fairness is making everyone dependent on government handouts.

Dumb as dishwater.

It's all because of his superior grasp of Keynesian economics

- DSK

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6 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

Kids I went to grade school with, who then went on to High School at Exeter, Andover, Mount Herman, Suffield, etc. All thought that they had a better education than those of us who stayed local.

But while they may have had a foot in the door at Yale, Harvard, Dartmouth, Princeton, etc. they, none of them, did any better than the majority of the kids that stayed in the local school system in the long run.

Well, I can understand feeling that way about Dartmouth...

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

He, like his elk, has no knowledge of history (well, except for a dead language) or economics.

A handful of people holding as much money as the bottom 1/2 of society is the path to riches for everyone.

Ensuring a modicum of economic fairness is making everyone dependent on government handouts.

Dumb as dishwater.

1 billionaire can create 1000 millionaires.

That's got to be better for the boating industry!

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, golly, I had no idea

Obviously you are a superior type who could do best with no government

Why don't you move to Somalia? I'm sure you would thrive there, with maximum freedom

and NO taxes!!

BTW vouchers would only be fair to taxpayers who support public schools, if those with no kids in school (such as myself) did not have to pay taxes to support schools we don't use.

The fiscal structure you support as "vouchers" is a subsidy to the wealthy for private schools

- DSK

I'm sure that, based on some letter-replacement code, that 'Quod Umbra" translates to Rand Paul.  The smugness merged with delusion kind of give him away.

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1 minute ago, Left Shift said:

I'm sure that, based on some letter-replacement code, that 'Quod Umbra" translates to Rand Paul.  The smugness merged with delusion kind of give him away.

It's code for "Clod Umbrage".

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17 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

BTW vouchers would only be fair to taxpayers who support public schools, if those with no kids in school (such as myself) did not have to pay taxes to support schools we don't use.

The fiscal structure you support as "vouchers" is a subsidy to the wealthy for private schools

- DSK

Silliness deleted....

To the meat of this post. Where exactly did I state that we should do away with all school taxes? I find ours a bit obscene. We have one Daughter, who is now quite a bit beyond school aged. We still pay 7k in school taxes. What I wish to see, and what seems so lost on the many "In Government We Trust" types, that we cannot continue on a path were we do not get a return on those tax dollars spent. As I noted above, in NYS it cost twice as much to educate a child in public schools than in private schools. That must end.
Now as for school vouchers. I am not suggesting, nor would I suggest, that they should only be made to people of means. Rather they should be made available to all. For all families to take advantage of to provide their children the best education available.
You arguments that this is about "the rich" not wanting to pay for their child's schooling is nonsensical. My suggestion to you all opposed to vouchers is this, why would you deny those not financially capable of sending their children to a private school such an opportunity? That is the essence of your objections. You leave people of average means the only option of a substandard public education. Talk about YOUR privilege. 

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If your vouchers are redeemable for full tuition at the finest private schools, without any need for the parents providing additional funds, maybe. If the parents have to pitch in any money, absolutely NO. Also, no admission requirements that differ from those at public schools--those accepting vouchers would have to accept all who applied. Then maybe. Only maybe. (But probably not.)

It still doesn't solve the problem that vouchers used at private schools, defund public schools. I find that unacceptable.

If you have problems with the quality of the schools in the district to which you chose to move, get involved and improve the quality of education. They are public institutions--you can run for school board or join the PTSA. Don't just sit there and be a whiner--take some responsibility: get in there and fix the problem.

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Vouchers would be a fine for students who are neurotypical and are successful without additional supports.

For those kids who have a learning difference or need additional supports, unless the vouchers are scaled for the additional cost, a voucher will be meaningless - as the private school will simply deny admission.

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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

As I noted above, in NYS it cost twice as much to educate a child in public schools than in private schools. 

Ok, talk about silliness.

 

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26 minutes ago, Mike G said:

Never seen anything like it!

 

 

 

Hannity needs to be held underwater until the bubbles stop. What a piece of shit.

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7 hours ago, Mike G said:

Never seen anything like it!

 

 

 

Good thing none of the Faithful watch Fox News.

How do we know they don't?  They tell us, all the time.  All the time.

Of course, the shit they spew is in direct alignment with the FN daily talking points.........

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

The real problem is that a lot of people... about 40% of USAnians, apparently... are entertained "infromed" by this sort of hateful nonsense

- DSK

FTFY

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On 3/25/2021 at 1:44 PM, Bus Driver said:

Vouchers would be a fine for students who are neurotypical and are successful without additional supports.

For those kids who have a learning difference or need additional supports, unless the vouchers are scaled for the additional cost, a voucher will be meaningless - as the private school will simply deny admission.

Special needs students would go to special needs schools. Advanced learners would go to advance learning institutions. Challenged learners would go to schools that specialize in overcoming such challenges. Average learners would go to schools whose pace is targeted to their absorption of knowledge. 
The way the public schools system works is we teach to something a couple of clicks below the median.....how dumb is that?

Resistance to vouchers  is tantamount to overt racism. It is a white majority telling people of color that they will attend the public school we make available. Parents in minority communities have no choice. Their children are forced to go to public schools for lack of financial abilities of the parent. All your whiteness telling children of color that they must go where white folks tell them they can go and like it. 
Bunch of racist crackers you all are.

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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

Special needs students would go to special needs schools. Advanced learners would go to advance learning institutions. Challenged learners would go to schools that specialize in overcoming such challenges. Average learners would go to schools whose pace is targeted to their absorption of knowledge. 
The way the public schools system works is we teach to something a couple of clicks below the median.....how dumb is that?

Resistance to vouchers  is tantamount to overt racism. It is a white majority telling people of color that they will attend the public school we make available. Parents in minority communities have no choice. Their children are forced to go to public schools for lack of financial abilities of the parent. All your whiteness telling children of color that they must go where white folks tell them they can go and like it. 
Bunch of racist crackers you all are.

Gotcha.  So, parents just hear "Sucks to be you, but your kid can only go to THAT school, not this one.  Even though you want them to go here."  That isn't what you wrote, above - 

On 3/24/2021 at 6:57 PM, quod umbra said:


Better idea is a voucher system where parents can decide where best to send their kids to give them every advantage....rather then destined to fail base on zip code.
Third point, and try and pay attention. In New York State it is twice as expensive for a student to be educated in the public school system than it is to be educated in a private school on average.....

So in New York Public Schools we pay twice as much (when compared to a private education) and get a far inferior education...... and that is what you think is the better way.

 

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7 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Gotcha.  So, parents just hear "Sucks to be you, but your kid can only go to THAT school, not this one.  Even though you want them to go here."  That isn't what you wrote, above - 

 

What hairs are you trying to split for the sake of arguing?
I was, in fact, agreeing with you BD. 

What people in the NYC school system hear, the ones who want choices and vouchers is, "tough shit you can't afford to send you kids to a good school and escape the cycle of poverty". The reasons are pretty clear Somers and Bedford Hills and Armonk don't want to see their tax dollars helping to pay for Flatbush, Bedford Stuyvesant or East New York schools. Vouchers fix that or have the potential to fix that.

And to circle back to the above, see in private schools.... well they can be many things or specialize. One school may (as I said earlier) may be for special needs, another for challenged learners, another for gifted learners. Or a school may take on a number of differing student types and place them in programs based on needs. There are numerous possibilities all of which offer greater choices then district public schools.

As mentioned above, objections to school vouchers and school choice is blatant racism.

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9 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Special needs students would go to special needs schools. Advanced learners would go to advance learning institutions. Challenged learners would go to schools that specialize in overcoming such challenges. Average learners would go to schools whose pace is targeted to their absorption of knowledge.

Do the words "Separate but equal" mean anything to you?

That post of yours is complete fantasy.

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9 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Special needs students would go to special needs schools. Advanced learners would go to advance learning institutions. Challenged learners would go to schools that specialize in overcoming such challenges. Average learners would go to schools whose pace is targeted to their absorption of knowledge. 
The way the public schools system works is we teach to something a couple of clicks below the median.....how dumb is that?

Resistance to vouchers  is tantamount to overt racism. It is a white majority telling people of color that they will attend the public school we make available. Parents in minority communities have no choice. Their children are forced to go to public schools for lack of financial abilities of the parent. All your whiteness telling children of color that they must go where white folks tell them they can go and like it. 
Bunch of racist crackers you all are.

So, basically you've learned to call people "racist" any time they do something you don't like, such as support their positions with facts and reasoning

... while you yourself assume black people are inferior and play no part in the either the civic process or in running the educational system.

- DSK

 

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16 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

So, basically you've learned to call people "racist" any time they do something you don't like, such as support their positions with facts and reasoning

... while you yourself assume black people are inferior and play no part in the either the civic process or in running the educational system.

- DSK

 

Mr. Flyer,

Bit of tongue in cheek..... just a bit. And no, people who favor school choice in NYC go unheard even though they are trying to have a say in how their kids are educated. Not sure where you "sub-species" nonsense is coming from. I certainly said, nor implied anything of the sort.
Circling back to NYC public schools and NYS schools in general, my observations on Bedford Hills Vs Bedford Stuy are most valid.
Case in point, The Scarsdale High School has very good rating and reputation....although a bit higher than average suicide rate. Parents in Scarsdale do not NEED to send their kids to private schools.
Just down the road, not 5 miles away, New Rochelle High School is just the opposite. Has a harsh reputation but unless you are making say north of 150k of better, you have little to no shot at sending your kids to private schools.
So demographically, Scarsdale Union Free School District, round numbers is like 99% white. New Rochelle Union Free School District, just a guess, is 25%-30% non-white (maybe a bit higher). So in this case, why would Scarsdale wish school choice when it would mean little in quality of education. New Rochelle it would mean a great deal for parents who want better for their kids.

Still perplexed as to where you get that I see minorities as inferior. Your words not mine. I am in support of school choice and support those in minority communities who which school choice. Not sure how you take that and come up with me being the racist.

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16 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Do the words "Separate but equal" mean anything to you?

That post of yours is complete fantasy.

Are you so incapable of seeing what is plainly before your eyes??
Do you not understand that children in low income districts have vastly inferior schooling>
Does in not resonate with you that less than 40% of children in inner city high schools graduate?
Beyond belief how many of you support or insist that only government controlled schools be permitted for parents who cannot afford giving their children a better chance of success.
And you think I am the problem? geezus you are fuk'd in the head.

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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

...  I am in support of school choice and support those in minority communities who which school choice. Not sure how you take that and come up with me being the racist.

First of all, I'm not agreeing with your assumption that NY public schools are automatically and uniformly inferior. I know a bunch of people who attended this schools system and every single one of them seems pretty smart by my standards (ie observing the actual real world and being conversant with a range of facts)

Your assumption of vouchers or "school choice" being good for black people is based on the assumption that black people are not exercising choices now; and not involved in both the civic process and in their local education system. You're being both paternalistic and assuming an inferior role for them, now and also in your proposed scheme

- DSK

 

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2 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Are you so incapable of seeing what is plainly before your eyes??
Do you not understand that children in low income districts have vastly inferior schooling>
Does in not resonate with you that less than 40% of children in inner city high schools graduate?
Beyond belief how many of you support or insist that only government controlled schools be permitted for parents who cannot afford giving their children a better chance of success.
And you think I am the problem? geezus you are fuk'd in the head.

Curious that we manage an 86% graduation rate - without your fantasy system of vouchers.

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4 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Mr. Flyer,

Bit of tongue in cheek..... just a bit. And no, people who favor school choice in NYC go unheard even though they are trying to have a say in how their kids are educated. Not sure where you "sub-species" nonsense is coming from. I certainly said, nor implied anything of the sort.
Circling back to NYC public schools and NYS schools in general, my observations on Bedford Hills Vs Bedford Stuy are most valid.
Case in point, The Scarsdale High School has very good rating and reputation....although a bit higher than average suicide rate. Parents in Scarsdale do not NEED to send their kids to private schools.
Just down the road, not 5 miles away, New Rochelle High School is just the opposite. Has a harsh reputation but unless you are making say north of 150k of better, you have little to no shot at sending your kids to private schools.
So demographically, Scarsdale Union Free School District, round numbers is like 99% white. New Rochelle Union Free School District, just a guess, is 25%-30% non-white (maybe a bit higher). So in this case, why would Scarsdale wish school choice when it would mean little in quality of education. New Rochelle it would mean a great deal for parents who want better for their kids.

Still perplexed as to where you get that I see minorities as inferior. Your words not mine. I am in support of school choice and support those in minority communities who which school choice. Not sure how you take that and come up with me being the racist.

OK...This rampant stupidity may be Exhibit 1 in demonstrating why having access to a keyboard should require a license to operate.  (Of course any posting by Mikey being Exhibit 2.)

This is utter bullshit.  "Proof" of a theory by selected anecdote is the failure of all those who chose belief in place of thought. 

 

I grew up and went to public school in Scarsdale.  It was then, and still is, the richest or one of the richest communities in this very rich country.  It was and is a community that had as its primary goal the funding of the very best school system for it's kids.  And it had the concentrated wealth to do it. 

And so they did.  For example, I went to school at a high school with an enrolment of 250 kids.  We had a collegiate campus setting on 90 acres of sports fields, woodlands with a building for each discipline.  Kids from other nearby districts, such as New Rochelle, paid tuition to go there.  Out of 92 kids in my graduating class, 92 went to college.  Great.  That must mean New Rochelle with its lower "achievement" demonstrates ... something. 

*  Maybe that wealth has its privileges? 

*  Maybe that really wealthy people have figured out that high school taxes are still cheaper than paying private tuition? 

*  Maybe that well-educated people in general intuitively understand that an educated population is the single most important thing that a community or nation can provide its citizens?  (And to their own personal wealth.)

*  Maybe that education is the first line of defence against idiocy like Q-anon?

However:  Scarsdale was also racist as all hell.  For example, one of the people who "somehow" was not able to find a home in Scarsdale was Harry Belafonte.  There were many well-known others.  While every deed had (illegal) racial restrictions, it was an open secret that the real estate agents were the real "gatekeepers" of our lily-white community.  (Lily-white but religiously diverse!  You were either an Episcopalian, a Congregationalist or a Reformed Jew.)   (Meanwhile, the maids and service workers were picked up at the station.  Thus, they didn't drag down the tax base or diversify the population.)

Now, sure, you can pluck this "random" example of public education out of your ass, but in doing so, you have demonstrated only your intellectual sloppiness.  

 

By the way, Bedford-Stuyvesant is now a rapidly gentrifying neighborhood. So try another example.  Maybe one from Kansas.  They love not paying taxes there.

And, also by the way, New York City schools offer some of the greatest educational choices available - based on merit not zip code.  E.g. The Bronx High School of Science, The LaGuardia School of Music and Art.  Talented kids from Scarsdale would love to go to either.

 

 

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18 hours ago, Left Shift said:

OK...This rampant stupidity may be Exhibit 1 in demonstrating why having access to a keyboard should require a license to operate.  (Of course any posting by Mikey being Exhibit 2.)

This is utter bullshit.  "Proof" of a theory by selected anecdote is the failure of all those who chose belief in place of thought. 

 

I grew up and went to public school in Scarsdale.  It was then, and still is, the richest or one of the richest communities in this very rich country.  It was and is a community that had as its primary goal the funding of the very best school system for it's kids.  And it had the concentrated wealth to do it. 

And so they did.  For example, I went to school at a high school with an enrolment of 250 kids.  We had a collegiate campus setting on 90 acres of sports fields, woodlands with a building for each discipline.  Kids from other nearby districts, such as New Rochelle, paid tuition to go there.  Out of 92 kids in my graduating class, 92 went to college.  Great.  That must mean New Rochelle with its lower "achievement" demonstrates ... something. 

*  Maybe that wealth has its privileges? 

*  Maybe that really wealthy people have figured out that high school taxes are still cheaper than paying private tuition? 

*  Maybe that well-educated people in general intuitively understand that an educated population is the single most important thing that a community or nation can provide its citizens?  (And to their own personal wealth.)

*  Maybe that education is the first line of defence against idiocy like Q-anon?

However:  Scarsdale was also racist as all hell.  For example, one of the people who "somehow" was not able to find a home in Scarsdale was Harry Belafonte.  There were many well-known others.  While every deed had (illegal) racial restrictions, it was an open secret that the real estate agents were the real "gatekeepers" of our lily-white community.  (Lily-white but religiously diverse!  You were either an Episcopalian, a Congregationalist or a Reformed Jew.)   (Meanwhile, the maids and service workers were picked up at the station.  Thus, they didn't drag down the tax base or diversify the population.)

Now, sure, you can pluck this "random" example of public education out of your ass, but in doing so, you have demonstrated only your intellectual sloppiness.  

 

By the way, Bedford-Stuyvesant is now a rapidly gentrifying neighborhood. So try another example.  Maybe one from Kansas.  They love not paying taxes there.

And, also by the way, New York City schools offer some of the greatest educational choices available - based on merit not zip code.  E.g. The Bronx High School of Science, The LaGuardia School of Music and Art.  Talented kids from Scarsdale would love to go to either.

 

 

You start off taking a swipe at me and then go on to prove my point.
Thank you.

As for Bed-Stuy, most people on this board would not do well walking around most of Bed-Stuy and East New York after dark.

And I fully agree with you, you should not be allowed near a keyboard.
So where do you live now.... I live half way between SHS and NRHS..... curious how you avoided any mention of the high quality of NRHS. Twit.

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20 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Curious that we manage an 86% graduation rate - without your fantasy system of vouchers.

You think an 86% graduation rate is something to crow about? Seriously?
And, within that statement, what you are really saying is you do not care about less than 40% of inner-city schools getting their charges through  graduation day.
Some might call that racist.

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3 hours ago, quod umbra said:

You think an 86% graduation rate is something to crow about? Seriously?
And, within that statement, what you are really saying is you do not care about less than 40% of inner-city schools getting their charges through  graduation day.
Some might call that racist.

Many people call you a moron.

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On 3/27/2021 at 5:23 AM, quod umbra said:


The way the public schools system works is we teach to something a couple of clicks below the median.....how dumb is that?
 

Is that true Jack? I've got one daughter in advanced calc in grade 12. The other on the same path. Older one will have 3 college level courses under her belt, and she's not the overachiever.  2nd one coming up is testing out higher due to sheer effort. The kid can work.

So - playing to the median?  That's not my experience.

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6 hours ago, quod umbra said:

You start off taking a swipe at me and then go on to prove my point.
Thank you.

As for Bed-Stuy, most people on this board would not do well walking around most of Bed-Stuy and East New York after dark.

And I fully agree with you, you should not be allowed near a keyboard.
So where do you live now.... I live half way between SHS and NRHS..... curious how you avoided any mention of the high quality of NRHS. Twit.

How little you are aware, or how quick you are to judge.

Bed-Stuy was the NY neigborhood of choice when a good friend wanted to spend 2 weeks in New York.  She's a blonde, single, white, 50-ish, $900/hr billing attorney.    She loved it there.  Even walking home from the subway after dark.  

Very glad that NRHS offers high quality education.  Community tax dollars at work. 

 

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1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

How little you are aware, or how quick you are to judge.

Bed-Stuy was the NY neigborhood of choice when a good friend wanted to spend 2 weeks in New York.  She's a blonde, single, white, 50-ish, $900/hr billing attorney.    She loved it there.  Even walking home from the subway after dark.  

Very glad that NRHS offers high quality education.  Community tax dollars at work. 

 

Delusional on so many fronts. 

Bed-Stuy is still Bed-Stuy.... a little gentrification along an edge won't solve that.
New Rochelle High School is amazingly poor quality..... but thank goodness the murder rate is on the wane.

SHS is the poster child of why we need school choice.

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Is that true Jack? I've got one daughter in advanced calc in grade 12. The other on the same path. Older one will have 3 college level courses under her belt, and she's not the overachiever.  2nd one coming up is testing out higher due to sheer effort. The kid can work.

So - playing to the median?  That's not my experience.

Depends on the district, no?
Which is exactly the problem. Some districts in well to do areas have decent schools.
Those in impoverished areas, not so much and no choice for the lower income parents.
That's the whole fukin' point!

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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

Depends on the district, no?
Which is exactly the problem. Some districts in well to do areas have decent schools.
Those in impoverished areas, not so much and no choice for the lower income parents.
That's the whole fukin' point!

Poor old Jack just wants more money for the religious institutions. So they can cherry-pick the easy kids and leave the tough ones for the locales, who now have even less resource than before. Tell ya what Jack. Put a 30% fee on top of each $ paid to private institutions to offset the costs of the public infra and we'll talk.

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6 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Delusional on so many fronts. 

Bed-Stuy is still Bed-Stuy.... a little gentrification along an edge won't solve that.
New Rochelle High School is amazingly poor quality..... but thank goodness the murder rate is on the wane.

SHS is the poster child of why we need school choice.

Quod erat demonstratum.

 

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Amazingly you don't even see it. Scarsdale High School as a district has all the money in the world. They get to hire the best teachers. They have a 90 acre campus with a school building rivaling the finest of elite private schools. They want for little, to the point that these parents need not send their kids to a fine private school.
Isn't that nice. And for those reasons you oppose school choice. 
Now go out and experience public schools in South Bronx or East New York. Those parents do not share YOUR experience with public schooling. So much so that the more conscientious of them wish school choice and vouchers. But because you are from one of the wealthier areas with a decent public education, you think all public education is sufficient.
And the best you can offer in proof is that you heard parts of Bed-Stuy are gentrifying. Isn't that nice for you to say from PNW.

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A lot of the problem is how schools are funded in many states.  i.e local taxes particularly property taxes.  Rich affluent areas tend to have very good schools, but poorer areas lack the same resources.  State government contributions don't make up the difference.

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