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17 minutes ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

its got a heck of a rudder on it and maybe an elliptical keel?

Very Fast Sailboat.

For sale is a highly modified S2 race boat. Think of this as a boat that will just Go Fast. Hull and deck are sound. Below deck could use a coat of paint. The boat comes on a tandem axle trailer and includes sails, rigging, radio, anchor, four Lewmar winches and misc equipment. In a world full of used boats it would be hard to find a faster one for the money.

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It does not look that bad if you zoom in but it looks to have been sitting as the wheels are depressed pretty far in the ground. Shipping from Erie, PA would run about 2K.

Looks messy but not totally a mess. I wonder about the Core??

Someone will buy it and part it out.

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2 hours ago, Editor said:

i'm such a dope, that thing looks like a fun project (on some level!)

Although I'm a multihull sailor, I too can see that this might be a sweet project.  Good little daysailer/phrf buoys racer 

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If we are going to form a SA syndicate for this boat, I am in for 500 total for the year with proportional voting rights.  A single long weekend to get the boat ready for season. We should keep the boat in the lakes then move it to Carlsbad for the Fall. Someone needs to make a Minneys run after we secure the buy.  the good news is I still have left over 1/2 gallon of Vivid white, 2 fresh rollers and a few throw away brushes. 

https://www.cycracetomackinac.com/the-race/

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Cool little boat, BUT...

The boat is being auctioned and who knows what the reserve price is.  $2k, $5k, $10k?

Ad says sails all mylar (except maybe the spins, but even those could be mylar).  Anyways, inventory has to be 30+ yrs old.

That horizontal crack in the transom needs attention.  Likely due to the torque generated by the unsupported rudder post holder thingy.

Even if repaired, that will cause issues due to the unsupported nature of the thingy.  If it failed once it will likely fail again if you just repair and replicate the existing structure.  Having the top of the thingy supported by a cross beam or some form of lattice structure tied out to the upper corners of the deck/transom opening should alleviate the problem.  And should allow you to dispense with the gussets, which may be the root of the problem to begin with.

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I see a hint of the S2 pedigree along the toe rail and in the bow entry, but that's about it...

  • The cabin top seems way too forward to have been a 7.9. Without taking a measuring tape to it, I'm pretty sure the original cockpit was/is much small than this.
  • The cabin top also appears much narrower than the 7.9.
  • The cabin top/dog house actually smells more like the 6.7 or other S2 models in that size range. One of those models even had an offset companionway.
  • The stern doesn't bear much resemblance to the 7.9 at all.
  • The rig appears to be a masthead configuration. Don't quote me, but I think the early 7.9s were all fractional.
  • Furthermore, while the 7.9 came in a wide variety of configurations (diff keels, inboard vs outboard, frack vs masthead, etc), none of those configs jump out at me when I look at the photos.

The bottom line is that I'm having a hard time believing someone would invest the huge quantity of time necessary to so dramatically modify a 7.9 to look like this boat. And why would they choose to modify what is widely considered to be a very well built one-design boat.

All that being said, it appears it may have Enkes winches on it - which was a supplier used by the factory for a very brief time in the early 80's.

Being a 9.1 Meter owner, I don't possess as much history for the 7.9 - but this sort of begs the question: could this be a prototype built by G&S prior to S2 buying the design? There's gotta be someone out there who knows more than me about this...?

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29 minutes ago, sailman said:

I do not see any S2 (G&S) perigee in that boat

Maybe not an S2 - but likely a G&S design.   Advertiser probably assumed since it was a G&S that it was an S2.  Or that it was a name more people would recognize.

There was the Mariah 27 (sometimes referred to as a G&S 27). 

Below is Lizzie B - a  G&S Mariah 27

Mariah 27.jpg

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4 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Maybe not an S2 - but likely a G&S design.   Advertiser probably assumed since it was a G&S that it was an S2.  Or that it was a name more people would recognize.

There was the Mariah 27 (sometimes referred to as a G&S 27). 

Below is Lizzie B - a  G&S Mariah 27

Mariah 27.jpg

There is no bustle from the Q4 period of the rule.  G&S used it to great advantage with the 7.9 and 9.1

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Lizzie B on the hard.  Similar foils - although the vertical rudder edges are swapped.  On the one advertised it is the trailing edge while on Lizzie B it is the leading edge.  Weird...since they both appear to be G&S MORC designs.

Lizzie B.jpg

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I will not look at that boat a second time. I will turn around and walk away without looking back over my shoulder.

Damn cool boat. Begging for some delusional idiot like me to waste way too much time and money on it, The siren song of boats beckons yet again.

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1 hour ago, 12 metre said:

Maybe not an S2 - but likely a G&S design.   Advertiser probably assumed since it was a G&S that it was an S2.  Or that it was a name more people would recognize.

There was the Mariah 27 (sometimes referred to as a G&S 27). 

Below is Lizzie B - a  G&S Mariah 27

Mariah 27.jpg

looks like a clown car with all those people on it

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3 minutes ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:
1 hour ago, 12 metre said:

Maybe not an S2 - but likely a G&S design.   Advertiser probably assumed since it was a G&S that it was an S2.  Or that it was a name more people would recognize.

There was the Mariah 27 (sometimes referred to as a G&S 27). 

Below is Lizzie B - a  G&S Mariah 27

Mariah 27.jpg

Expand  

looks like a clown car with all those people on it

I mitte adde a car, thet floates, and hase a maste, withe sailles and alle..........               :)

Prolley neede moire peopel foire alle thet orthere shit.............

:)

 

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I have seen or built sails for many MORC modified or special edition S2 7.9s and that does not look like any of them. The only thing I can think of was Lionheart which cut inches of freeboard off the boat in 1993 but even that looked nothing like the one for sale .

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This boat started out as S2 7.9. Locally referred to as a Sawzall 26. Freeboard reduced by cutting deck off and some of the topsides. Doghouse revised,custom keel, rudder. Phrf in the 140s ?  They raced against a Mariah 27 at the Erie Yacht Club. Can’t recall  how they did. Call the guy who owned the Mariah, Pigs at Sea. He knows about this boat. Al at Quantum Detroit could put you in touch with Pigs owner.

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I had a custom factory prepped MORC S2 7.9 masthead double spreader rig like this with a similar keel.  Kicked ass in PHRF in Long Island Sound. Rated 162 at the time.  This one is modified beyond mine though.  Fun, fast little boat indeed!

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8 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

Very Fast Sailboat.

For sale is a highly modified S2 race boat. Think of this as a boat that will just Go Fast. Hull and deck are sound. Below deck could use a coat of paint. The boat comes on a tandem axle trailer and includes sails, rigging, radio, anchor, four Lewmar winches and misc equipment. In a world full of used boats it would be hard to find a faster one for the money.

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It does not look that bad if you zoom in but it looks to have been sitting as the wheels are depressed pretty far in the ground. Shipping from Erie, PA would run about 2K.

Looks messy but not totally a mess. I wonder about the Core??

Someone will buy it and part it out.

Its up to 610 USD, we better get on the stick and make a deal...I like the inboard. Mini motor sailer. Put a self tacking jib on it and a roller reefing main in boom, small prod and an A-sail with a sock. 

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If the trailer has a title, it's worth the 600.  Rig, 900, and if here are wires that's a bonus. Jib track and cars 300, engine starts? 900. Miscellaneous line? 200. Sails? How much do paint drop cloths go for these days? Lead is something over a buck a pound.

But get real here: you are looking at a recreational platform, that if it won't kill you, it will bring great enjoyment.  As a former builder and the mention of a Sawzall, you might want to see haw the parts are bonded together before risking loved ones. Thinking of winning the Intergalactics in some regatta? Nobody will care on Monday anyway: buy the boat, invest in a little epoxy to fix the transom issue, go sailing and learn something, to be determined after the sailing part.

I

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7 hours ago, sailman said:

There is no bustle from the Q4 period of the rule.  G&S used it to great advantage with the 7.9 and 9.1

It’s a chopped s2 all day long...

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13 hours ago, Callahan said:

This boat started out as S2 7.9. Locally referred to as a Sawzall 26. Freeboard reduced by cutting deck off and some of the topsides. Doghouse revised,custom keel, rudder. Phrf in the 140s ?  They raced against a Mariah 27 at the Erie Yacht Club. Can’t recall  how they did. Call the guy who owned the Mariah, Pigs at Sea. He knows about this boat. Al at Quantum Detroit could put you in touch with Pigs owner.

As I read through this thread I was thinking of the Sawzall 26 too.  Started out as a regular 7.9 on Lake Erie that was overweight, owner (can't remember his name) couldn't get it to perform in one design, got some ideas after seeing the success the Sampsons had modding Rugger, took out the Sawzall and made a few small mods, saw some performance benefits, so went crazy.  By the time the project was complete I think the basic hull shape was the only thing that remained true to the 7.9.

I recall seeing the boat once in it's mid-transformation.  It looked kinda rough, but they were having fun and I'm pretty sure the boat had better wheels than beforehand...

EDIT:  Here's some more info in an old thread on the 7.9 CA site:  https://www.s279.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=1408

 

Cheers!

 

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OK here's the plan, fellow SA Syndicate members: Looks like it floats deep given the waterline (as Sailon said, heavy), lets pull that diesel and put an outboard motor mount on the stern, couple of weekends involving elbow grease and epoxy, and take it to a light air venue

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11 hours ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

Its up to 610 USD, we better get on the stick and make a deal...I like the inboard. Mini motor sailer. Put a self tacking jib on it and a roller reefing main in boom, small prod and an A-sail with a sock. 

I got a real good boat that needs virtually nothing, we place or win when we enter and I can't sell it.

There is some nice looking stuff on that boat. but reading about cutting freeboard down and all the mods, it could be a real disaster.

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3 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

There is some nice looking stuff on that boat. but reading about cutting freeboard down and all the mods, it could be a real disaster.

Hey Meat, the mods were done ~25 years ago so I suspect any glitches and serious structural issues would've been worked through by now.  The SAWZALL was a pretty extreme example of the tinkering many MORC competitors had fun with back in the day.

 

I found the SAWZALL 26 on PHRF-LE database:

PHRF's 150, Dimensions 25.8 x 21.2 x 8.9 x 4.8 x 4700, Rig 35.3 x 10.0, 30.4 x 12.4
 

vs. the base S2 7.9 OB:

PHRF's 171, Dimensions 25.9 x 21.5 x 9.0 x 5.0 x 4475, Rig 30.4 x 9.5, 29.4 x 12.2


vs. Rugger, the S2 7.9 MH FK that was modified with Hendo appendages and stripped interior but no changes to hull or deck:

PHRF's 150, Dimensions 26.0 x 21.0 x 9.0 x 4.8 x 4600, Rig 34.0 x 10.0, 29.3 x 12.3

 

So a definate performance advantage over the base boat.  I don't think it ever achieved the same success as Rugger, but probably not as well prepped or sailed either...

 

And yes, like many other MORC-specific designs of the time, the boat could be a light air machine.

 

Cheers!

 

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The Grand Slam boats were dagger board boats. I owned and raced a 22 way back in the early '80's names Banzai. The boat had one overall group win. That was the race I turned the boat over to the crew so I could get married. :-/

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39 minutes ago, Greyhound37 said:

The Grand Slam boats were dagger board boats. I owned and raced a 22 way back in the early '80's names Banzai. The boat had one overall group win. That was the race I turned the boat over to the crew so I could get married. :-/

Not true, the 7.9 sure, and that smaller one.  Grand Slam was just a cute play on Graham and Schlageter.  The 9.1 and 10.3 never had daggerboards.  I worked with Eric professionally in the 90's and a nicer guy you could never meet.  Picture this big guy who walks into the room with a big smile and you look at him and say, he loves everyone here.  It also helped he knew his shit.  Likable falls a million miles short as a descriptive. 

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3 hours ago, CriticalPath said:

Hey Meat, the mods were done ~25 years ago so I suspect any glitches and serious structural issues would've been worked through by now.  The SAWZALL was a pretty extreme example of the tinkering many MORC competitors had fun with back in the day.

 

I found the SAWZALL 26 on PHRF-LE database:

PHRF's 150, Dimensions 25.8 x 21.2 x 8.9 x 4.8 x 4700, Rig 35.3 x 10.0, 30.4 x 12.4
 

vs. the base S2 7.9 OB:

PHRF's 171, Dimensions 25.9 x 21.5 x 9.0 x 5.0 x 4475, Rig 30.4 x 9.5, 29.4 x 12.2


vs. Rugger, the S2 7.9 MH FK that was modified with Hendo appendages and stripped interior but no changes to hull or deck:

PHRF's 150, Dimensions 26.0 x 21.0 x 9.0 x 4.8 x 4600, Rig 34.0 x 10.0, 29.3 x 12.3

 

So a definate performance advantage over the base boat.  I don't think it ever achieved the same success as Rugger, but probably not as well prepped or sailed either...

 

And yes, like many other MORC-specific designs of the time, the boat could be a light air machine.

 

Cheers!

 

Same rig dimensions as the stock S2 7.9-FK according to Sailboatdata: https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/s2-79-fk

40 minutes ago, Greyhound37 said:

The Grand Slam boats were dagger board boats. I owned and raced a 22 way back in the early '80's names Banzai. The boat had one overall group win. That was the race I turned the boat over to the crew so I could get married. :-/

MOST S2 7.9s were daggerboard with frac rig.  But as mentioned above, according to SailboatData there were a relatively small number (17) of fixed keel versions built.

They actually had a quite a bit more horsepower (SA/D of 22 vs 20) on a MH rig vs the daggerboard version.

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9 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

I got a real good boat that needs virtually nothing, we place or win when we enter and I can't sell it.

There is some nice looking stuff on that boat. but reading about cutting freeboard down and all the mods, it could be a real disaster.

Will pm you when we do our summer week in Carp. I like real good boats!

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I had an S2 7.9 Grand Slam in Long Island Sound years ago.  It was a fixed keel and masthead rig.  Cleaned house with it with a PHRF rating of 162.  I see the resemblance of this one to mine, albeit very modified.  Mine was an outboard.

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On 3/12/2021 at 7:47 PM, Callahan said:

This boat started out as S2 7.9. Locally referred to as a Sawzall 26. Freeboard reduced by cutting deck off and some of the topsides. Doghouse revised,custom keel, rudder. Phrf in the 140s ?  They raced against a Mariah 27 at the Erie Yacht Club. Can’t recall  how they did. Call the guy who owned the Mariah, Pigs at Sea. He knows about this boat. Al at Quantum Detroit could put you in touch with Pigs owner.

All true. I sailed on the boat for a MORC Midwinters at Davis Island. Boat had a huge rig, but was too heavy. The owner who did the mods was a very capable Construction Contractor. I recall he poured the Glen Henderson keel himself. The replacement deck & deckhouse where the source of a significant amount of the weight problem. Rather than molding a cored deck, he built a plywood deck & house that were glassed inside & out.

And you know how a 7.9 squats at the stern when up to speed? The closed transom of the original design keeps the water from tumbling into the cockpit. Not so much on this boat.

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14 hours ago, ROADKILL666 said:

I love old MORC boats.If I had the space and time I would take it in a NY second.

I've got the room!

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7 hours ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

Shit, I could put 300 boats like that on my property :)

Must be nice.In Jacksonville I would have to move to the sticks for that kind of room

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35 minutes ago, ROADKILL666 said:

Must be nice.In Jacksonville I would have to move to the sticks for that kind of room

Yeah, pretty much where I live.

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On 3/14/2021 at 10:10 PM, BigWaveDave said:

All true. I sailed on the boat for a MORC Midwinters at Davis Island. Boat had a huge rig, but was too heavy. The owner who did the mods was a very capable Construction Contractor. I recall he poured the Glen Henderson keel himself. The replacement deck & deckhouse where the source of a significant amount of the weight problem. Rather than molding a cored deck, he built a plywood deck & house that were glassed inside & out.

And you know how a 7.9 squats at the stern when up to speed? The closed transom of the original design keeps the water from tumbling into the cockpit. Not so much on this boat.

Don't think any of the 7.9's were inboard, but that BMW D7 was a good motor, i had the 12 on my Wylie and it would always start even with a dead battery.  If the boat's too heavy , pull it and convert to OB, motor should sell for some $$

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26 minutes ago, barefoot children said:

Don't think any of the 7.9's were inboard, but that BMW D7 was a good motor, i had the 12 on my Wylie and it would always start even with a dead battery.  If the boat's too heavy , pull it and convert to OB, motor should sell for some $$

There were certainly inboard 7.9s. I used to race on one called Mistress, hull number 4. Kicked divisional butt at Key West in '06. I think folks like the OB ones in light air, but we did pretty well in the light too. 

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This boat is a highly modified S2 7.9. Paper work in the folder I was handed states that the owner modified a 7.9 by cutting the deck and 6" of freeboard off and built a new light deck and small coach roof.

He added height to the mast and changed the rig from fractional to full mast head rig. He also removed the centerboard and added the lead keel and rudder system.

 

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