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So, the first sailmaker quote will roll in this week for a new main. I’ll also get a new staysail and new 100% jib modified to fit my boat; new Genoa later.

Parameters are: 33’ ft heavy displacement cruising boat.  Would like to do N. America-Hawaii next year; local coastal sailing mostly thereafter for a while (with some offshore stuff in a few years as we learn from the Hawaii trip, a first offshore, and as the kid starts to transition out of the nest.  Maybe some commuter cruising, sail for a year far off, leave boat, return to work for a year? Sorta thing.). So, I want a sail that’ll hold together for Hawaii and back, but we’re not talking full time 24/7 cruising yet. Interested in high-latitude sailing eventually.

For main, I’m guessing as a start:

-basic Dacron.  Or are other more expensive materials worth considering?

-cross cut.  Is tri-radial worth it?  Don’t know.  Thoughts?

-three rows of stitching where it counts

-reinforcing patches/webbing

-three reef points (but I do have a trysail too)

-battens: huge price difference between full and not?  Does this  (full) then require different cars/slides/track?  (If so, I’m not in, b/c of cost.)

I’ve browsed around online(e.g., UK Sailmakers online encyclopedia of sails), watched a few vids, read a few threads. and have moderately educated myself about sail basics; I want to be able to have a conversation with the sailmaker so that I can keep up :-).  And make suggestions/understand his. He’s a nice guy and gets what I want - but, the key point is, do I actually really know what I need/want?

Based on my description above of intended cruising type/time frame, does anyone have any suggestions re: mainsail material/construction/features? I’m ready to learn...but I don’t need a super expensive carbon laminate etc etc etc.

 

Thanks in advance!

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Yeah, he got 6 competing quotes on a custom product. How awful. Sure he got a lot of options that vary wildly, more than needed. But he did some homework. But you're in the business of selling sa

Re boom height.... Sit at frd end of cockpit.... does boom clear your head by 6 inches? Yes? Then there is room for your dodger.. Stand in cockpit... does boom clear your head by 2 inches?If

Sounds like if ordering offshore, you can't really rely on the sailmakers advice - you've really got to do your own research. I really have no idea of the difference between Fastnet 8.88 and 390 SF -

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My sail rule: Keep them simple. Replace them often.

Plain battens, Regular Dacron construction. No special features beyond the cruiser features. Only cruisers that are blind to blown out sails need fancy thread and stitching. All Dacron mains are toast long before a seam goes.

Not sure 3 reefs are ever needed on the Hawaii trip. But might be an alternative to a storm sail.

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I bought a basic main for my Mirage 25 through Evolution's Vancouver loft a few years ago, it's been fine and they have been pretty good about service.  Basic sail so probably won't applie but the this winter i had to replace abunch of plastic sail slugs because they wer failing.  i have found that triradial isn't that much of a premium, i kinda wish i had sprong for it.  

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38' heavy-ish displacement. I went with a decent Dacron, 8.62 HA Marblehead, a mix of partial and full battens (3 full, 2 partial), dogbones and two deeper reefs rather than three as an experiment. 

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Does anyone still make double-ply dacron mainsails?

Back in the late 70s, I sailed a lot on a boat which had a two-ply main, and it was a joy to handle.  But I haven't seen one in years.

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15 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

So, the first sailmaker quote will roll in this week for a new main. I’ll also get a new staysail and new 100% jib modified to fit my boat; new Genoa later.

Parameters are: 33’ ft heavy displacement cruising boat.  Would like to do N. America-Hawaii next year; local coastal sailing mostly thereafter for a while (with some offshore stuff in a few years as we learn any more from the Hawaii trip, a first offshore, and as the kid starts to transition out of the nest.  Maybe some commuter cruising, sail for a year far off, leave boat, return to work for a year? Sorta thing.). So, I want a sail that’ll hold together for Hawaii and back, but we’re not talking full time 24/7 cruising yet.

For main, I’m guessing as a start:

-basic Dacron.  Or are other more expensive materials worth considering?

-cross cut.  Is tri-radial worth it?  Don’t know.  Thoughts?

-three rows of stitching where it counts

-reinforcing patches/webbing

-three reef points (but I do have a trysail too)

-battens: huge price difference between full and not?  Does this  (full) then require different cars/slides/track?  (If so, I’m not in, b/c of cost.)

I’ve browsed around online(e.g., UK Sailmakers online encyclopedia of sails), watched a few vids, read a few threads. and have moderately educated myself about sail basics; I want to be able to have a conversation with the sailmaker so that I can keep up :-).  And make suggestions/understand his. He’s a nice guy and gets what I want - but, the key point is, do I actually really know what I need/want?

Based on my description above of intended cruising type/time frame, does anyone have any suggestions re: mainsail material/construction/features? I’m ready to learn...but I don’t need a super expensive carbon laminate etc etc etc.

 

Thanks in advance!

I had a new main built about 5 years ago and I'm happy with the decisions we made. But we're coastal sailors and won't be crossing any oceans. 

 

We went with a strong basic cross cut dacron sail but nothing out of the typical in construction or materials. 

 

I thought about 3 reefs but the sailmaker talked me out of that. I'm glad in hindsight, we've heaved to with more mainsail (fully reefed) in 40 knots and were quite happy with how the boat behaved. 

 

I wanted the full battens - period, largely for handling the low aspect mainsail. He suggested getting new cars, track but with a spruce spar I wasn't going to go there. As it turns out, the old sail slides work fine even with the full battens. 

 

Loose footed! I love that feature over my old mainsail. 

 

Very happy with this sail: 

961636010_Sailsandtelltales(1of1).thumb.jpg.5b94bdc90f2740ae0a091ffd7aa05340.jpg

 

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22 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

three reef points (but I do have a trysail too)

When you need a third reef, you really need it.  A last step before the hassle of a trysail.

However, I see some people arguing that a cruising boat is better off with just two deep reefs, so that the second reef is as deep as a third reef would normally be.  That means less string, and less

I guess that the viability of that approach depends a lot on how much of your rig is mainsail.  If you have a smallish main, then the size gaps with deep reefs shouldn't be too big ... whereas if you rig in mostly mainsail, then the main needs to be reducable in smaller steps.

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19 minutes ago, chester said:

I bought a basic main for my Mirage 25 through Evolution's Vancouver loft a few years ago, it's been fine and they have been pretty good about service.  Basic sail so probably won't applie but the this winter i had to replace abunch of plastic sail slugs because they wer failing.  i have found that triradial isn't that much of a premium, i kinda wish i had sprong for it.  

Just out of curiosity, why did you choose that sailmaker when (presumably) there are sailmakers local to you? (Montréal?)

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1 minute ago, chester said:

choose off of quotes.  I'm in Saskatoon, Vancouver IS my local sailmaker.

Do you sail on a local lake?

Or commute to a boat kept on the coat or the great lakes?

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11 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

When you need a third reef, you really need it.  A last step before the hassle of a trysail.

However, I see some people arguing that a cruising boat is better off with just two deep reefs, so that the second reef is as deep as a third reef would normally be.  That means less string, and less

I guess that the viability of that approach depends a lot on how much of your rig is mainsail.  If you have a smallish main, then the size gaps with deep reefs shouldn't be too big ... whereas if you rig in mostly mainsail, then the main needs to be reducable in smaller steps.

Thanks- makes sense re: 2 vs. 3 reefs.  Indeed, our main is small relative to the largest headsail.  (But by extending my boom, which I’m currently doing, I’m able to increase mainsail size (from 170 to 220 sq. ft.). I’ll get the sailmaker’s advice on reefs.

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6 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Do you sail on a local lake?

Or commute to a boat kept on the coat or the great lakes?

Lake diefenbaker...resevoir of the south saskatchewan river.  it's actually about 180 KM long and 180 feet deep down the centre and there a lot of anchorages in the coulees off the lake.  it's the priairies so there is usually a useful breeze

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26 minutes ago, Elegua said:

38' heavy-ish displacement. I went with a decent Dacron, 8.62 HA Marblehead, a mix of partial and full battens (3 full, 2 partial), dogbones and two deeper reefs rather than three as an experiment. 

Many thanks is for the technical details.  Very helpful.

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54 minutes ago, El Borracho said:

My sail rule: Keep them simple. Replace them often.

Plain battens, Regular Dacron construction. No special features beyond the cruiser features. Only cruisers that are blind to blown out sails need fancy thread and stitching. All Dacron mains are toast long before a seam goes.

Not sure 3 reefs are ever needed on the Hawaii trip. But might be an alternative to a storm sail.

Thanks - my inclination is also to keep it simple.  However, I’m wondering if any of the (sorta basic?) added features (try-radial construction, some extra reinforcement, etc) will help eke out a bit more life without adding hugely to cost.

I mean, I wanna be able to plan to be in Patagonian Chile in 5 years, so I want a sail that I buy now to be able to hold up for a while after, say, a Hawaii trip, local coastal sailing, and hopefully Alaska and return too (this time offshore instead of Inside Passage).

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17 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Many thanks is for the technical details.  Very helpful.

Oh and Allslip slides seem to work well for the full battens on a smallish 34sq/m mainsail with moderate roach. 

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28 minutes ago, chester said:

Lake diefenbaker...resevoir of the south saskatchewan river.  it's actually about 180 KM long and 180 feet deep down the centre and there a lot of anchorages in the coulees off the lake.  it's the priairies so there is usually a useful breeze

Sounds like lots of fun for exploring ... but also a probably a very difft use case to what Jud has in mind.

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3 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Sounds like lots of fun for exploring ... but also a probably a very difft use case to what Jud has in mind.

certainly, i was noting that I had a decent experience with a large sailmaker clopse to him

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Who're you getting quotes from, @Jud - s/v Sputnik? I'd caution against fewer deeper reefs based on my own experience.

I was considering three reefs for my 29 but went with a deeper second reef after chatting with North. While I'm glad I went with two I'm not happy with the deep second reef as the gap between 1st and 2nd is far too large. Doing windward work in the 20-25kt range is a bit too much for a first reef but I don't quite have enough drive for the second.

My next main for coastal stuff will have two normal reefs and if I ever go offshore I'll get a third reef instead of a trysail.

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As a sailmaker once told me "...spend your money on the main, its the sail that flies all the time." (Ok, sometimes you might run headsails and no main offshore, but most of the time, the main is up).  If your really going offshore, extra reefs, and a deep reef is well worth the money.  Same for full battens.  Yeah, they add to cost, but the return is less flogging, less wear on the main, and if your going offshore, I think that's a worthwhile trade as well.

New cruising molded sails are both lighter and stronger than Dacron, so hold their design shape longer.  That translates to more miles per day on your way to/from Hawaii, all things being equal, and durability is supposed to be quite good now.  Again, trading cost upfront vs. performance in "outyears."

Just some thoughts to consider.  All sails are a tradeoff of cost vs performance vs durability vs longevity.  What is the right answer for one person is not necessarily the right answer for another...

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50 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Thanks - my inclination is also to keep it simple.  However, I’m wondering if any of the (sorta basic?) added features (try-radial construction, some extra reinforcement, etc) will help eke out a bit more life without adding hugely to cost.

I mean, I wanna be able to plan to be in Patagonian Chile in 5 years, so I want a sail that I buy now to be able to hold up for a while after, say, a Hawaii trip, local coastal sailing, and hopefully Alaska and return too (this time offshore instead of Inside Passage).

UV takes life out of sails, raised or lowered on the boom. Have a good cover or have a good system in mind for the new main. I'm told full battens extend the life as well. My old main was still very usable right up until grasping the leech to wrestle a flake onto the boom,... two feet of leech came off in my mitts. 

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

So, the first sailmaker quote will roll in this week for a new main. I’ll also get a new staysail and new 100% jib modified to fit my boat; new Genoa later.

Parameters are: 33’ ft heavy displacement cruising boat.  Would like to do N. America-Hawaii next year; local coastal sailing mostly thereafter for a while (with some offshore stuff in a few years as we learn from the Hawaii trip, a first offshore, and as the kid starts to transition out of the nest.  Maybe some commuter cruising, sail for a year far off, leave boat, return to work for a year? Sorta thing.). So, I want a sail that’ll hold together for Hawaii and back, but we’re not talking full time 24/7 cruising yet. Interested in high-latitude sailing eventually.

For main, I’m guessing as a start:

-basic Dacron.  Or are other more expensive materials worth considering?

-cross cut.  Is tri-radial worth it?  Don’t know.  Thoughts?

-three rows of stitching where it counts

-reinforcing patches/webbing

-three reef points (but I do have a trysail too)

-battens: huge price difference between full and not?  Does this  (full) then require different cars/slides/track?  (If so, I’m not in, b/c of cost.)

I’ve browsed around online(e.g., UK Sailmakers online encyclopedia of sails), watched a few vids, read a few threads. and have moderately educated myself about sail basics; I want to be able to have a conversation with the sailmaker so that I can keep up :-).  And make suggestions/understand his. He’s a nice guy and gets what I want - but, the key point is, do I actually really know what I need/want?

Based on my description above of intended cruising type/time frame, does anyone have any suggestions re: mainsail material/construction/features? I’m ready to learn...but I don’t need a super expensive carbon laminate etc etc etc.

 

Thanks in advance!

I don’t like three reefs , too much junk on the sail, junk on the boom and junk on the deck 

For a cruisers it’s better to go with two reefs 

The First is a Big reef the second is the Big’ga reef  

This big’ga Reef is similar in size to a third reef 

As your sailmaker 

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Full Battens. Even if your main is made of tissue paper it will hold its shape for (years) longer and hold its shape better when reefed.

It will also give you the vital 'pinch high(slight luff curve in the battens w/o flutter) under motor sail main only mode' that can be great in narrow channels or sounds that you can't quite get with partial battens.

Personally I'd go the extra distance for a Harken Battcar system. If you're gonna spend boat bucks this is the place to do it.

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@Jud - s/v Sputnik I just went through the process of getting 2 new upwind sails and would be happy to chat. If you are around the marina during the evenings this week (after 6) or this coming weekend, feel free to stop by and give the hull a tap. Slip B13.

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1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

I don’t like three reefs , too much junk on the sail, junk on the boom and junk on the deck 

For a cruisers it’s better to go with two reefs 

The First is a Big reef the second is the Big’ga reef  

This big’ga Reef is similar in size to a third reef 

As your sailmaker 

I have a free, new trysail for “just in case” conditions, depending on where we find ourselves (e.g., high latitudes).

Re: third reef, good point.  But my theory with third reef is to install only two cheek blocks on boom, therefore only two reefing lines  - 3rd reef rarely if ever used.  If needed, there’d be a dedicated line for in my mine storage area: easy to install on sail/run through 2nd reef cheekblock (everything is external on boom).  That’s the theory anyway.

But will get sailmaker’s thoughts on number of reef points and size of reefs.

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1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

UV takes life out of sails, raised or lowered on the boom. Have a good cover or have a good system in mind for the new main. I'm told full battens extend the life as well. My old main was still very usable right up until grasping the leech to wrestle a flake onto the boom,... two feet of leech came off in my mitts. 

Yup - we made our mainsail cover 15 years ago: standard cover style. This time, we’ll do two layers of fabric on top, and will make it a Stackpack style.  
 

Also, it’s time to install lazy jacks.  On my list every year - never a priority, now it is :-)

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- 2 big reefs would be my recommendation too. Especially for Patagonia.
- cloth matters. Find out what cloth they are using. Get the spec sheets. Dacron comes in 3 rough categories "cheap as possible for OEM and cheap bastard sailors / decent stuff (North Nordac usually fits here) / really good stuff"
Marblehead is "really good stuff"
- not going to comment on tri-radial Dacron. In most cases the extra cost would be better spent on a tri radial laminate (I think) but not sure. Laminate WILL have a shorter structural life than Dacron.
- RADIAL reinforcing patches with webbing. Not many sailmakers are still doing the old style overlapping rectangular / trapezoid patches but worth mentioning it
- can you easily reach the end of the boom and get at a leech line? If not run it up to the masthead and have a pulley there and down the luff to the gooseneck
- I like top 2 battens full and lower battens extra length. Gets you a more controllable shape. Shape actually changes when you ease outhaul for example
- Allslip slides are good at batten ends; just above reef tack points. Nylon in between though (this is not a big sail)
- lots of sailmakers use 2 rows of stepped zig zag. Each "zag" has like 3 stitches. This is perfectly acceptable.
- get a drawing of the proposed sail with patches. Sailmakers trying to shave costs will make reinforcing patches too small
- maybe extra reinforcement of the leech in an extra layer locally. Again talk to your sailmaker

Locally I'd talk to UK. Not impressed with Precision Sails. Would not give me straight answer as to which cloth they would use.

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3 minutes ago, Zonker said:

- 2 big reefs would be my recommendation too. Especially for Patagonia.
- cloth matters. Find out what cloth they are using. Get the spec sheets. Dacron comes in 3 rough categories "cheap as possible for OEM and cheap bastard sailors / decent stuff (North Nordac usually fits here) / really good stuff"
Marblehead is "really good stuff"
- not going to comment on tri-radial Dacron. In most cases the extra cost would be better spent on a tri radial laminate (I think) but not sure. Laminate WILL have a shorter structural life than Dacron.
- RADIAL reinforcing patches with webbing. Not many sailmakers are still doing the old style overlapping rectangular / trapezoid patches but worth mentioning it
- can you easily reach the end of the boom and get at a leech line? If not run it up to the masthead and have a pulley there and down the luff to the gooseneck
- I like top 2 battens full and lower battens extra length. Gets you a more controllable shape. Shape actually changes when you ease outhaul for example
- Allslip slides are good at batten ends; just above reef tack points. Nylon in between though (this is not a big sail)
- lots of sailmakers use 2 rows of stepped zig zag. Each "zag" has like 3 stitches. This is perfectly acceptable.
- get a drawing of the proposed sail with patches. Sailmakers trying to shave costs will make reinforcing patches too small
- maybe extra reinforcement of the leech in an extra layer locally. Again talk to your sailmaker

Locally I'd talk to UK. Not impressed with Precision Sails. Would not give me straight answer as to which cloth they would use.

Does anybody know where the Ullman Sails’ Endurance cloth ranks in quality? Same as, better, or worst than Marblehead, NorDac, etc.

Thanks

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6 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

I have a free, new trysail for “just in case” conditions, depending on where we find ourselves (e.g., high latitudes).

Re: third reef, good point.  But my theory with third reef is to install only two cheek blocks on boom, therefore only two reefing lines  - 3rd reef rarely if ever used.  If needed, there’d be a dedicated line for in my mine storage area: easy to install on sail/run through 2nd reef cheekblock (everything is external on boom).  That’s the theory anyway.

But will get sailmaker’s thoughts on number of reef points and size of reefs.

Unless there is an orangutan on the crew I think it is impossible to reeve a reefing line underway.

Not sure I have ever used my third reef in a fight. Used it as for lowering the sail in a blow. I think the one time I considered using it in weather I continued to bare poles. 
Cruising in truly remote waters without air or shipping services would imply carrying a second good main. Is Patagonia really that remote? Seems rather popular for a remote place. 

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32 minutes ago, El Borracho said:

Unless there is an orangutan on the crew I think it is impossible to reeve a reefing line underway.

Not sure I have ever used my third reef in a fight. Used it as for lowering the sail in a blow. I think the one time I considered using it in weather I continued to bare poles. 
Cruising in truly remote waters without air or shipping services would imply carrying a second good main. Is Patagonia really that remote? Seems rather popular for a remote place. 

Have you ever seen me?  300 lbs of pure NZ Blacks orang-utan muscle :-). But seriously, I’d think that the idea of a 3rd reef would be to reave the line prior to a big passage, so it’s on, ready to go.  That’s my understanding anyway.  (Plus, my mainsail/boat isn’t that big.)

Can definitely see wanting a spare main onboard especially if relatively —relatively— remote. (Probably a used but not abused on and have it cut down.)  I mean, I think Patagonia sort of on the “remote” side only if going the distance around from
Pacific to the Atlantic (instead of coming back/staying there), since it’s pretty long to get back up the other side; otherwise, no.  But that’s a later thing.

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11 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Not planning on using Precision.  Sounds gimmicky, made offshore, etc.  Endorsed by a few so-called prominent sailing YouTubers, I discovered, so that sorta changed my mind......

At the opposite end of the price scale from Precision ... across the border from you, the sails made by Port Townsend Sails (https://www.porttownsendsails.com/) seem to be highly rated for detail and durability.

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I'd say never carry a "spare good" sail. Have your existing sail in good enough condition that it doesn't tear.

And carry material to repair your sails. 4 oz Dacron sticky back on either side of a tear will do a pretty good repair and is easy for most sailors to work with, even if they are not carrying a good machine. Some plain Dacron, dacron tape, webbing, a sailors palm etc. can work wonders in the weeks you sit waiting for a new sail to be made.

While not impossible to get stuff shipped to remote destinations it can be very time consuming (sail has to be made) and then getting it through customs can be a huge headache. Really varies from country to country. I had some windlass brushes shipped out of the US (they were on the shelf in the US) take ~1 month to get to us in Malaysia. By DHL who are usually pretty good overseas.

Oh, yeah, Precision made a genoa for Delos that had HORRIBLE shape brand new out of the bag. And then it spectacularly failed. Not good advertising for the brand. Who know what cloth they used. I don't think there is anything wrong with offshore sail makers. Most big lofts do it now 

I think Port Townsend sails are nice if you want to support a local artisan. Nothing wrong with their sails but their pricing model is very very costly for the average consumer. 

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15 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

At the opposite end of the price scale from Precision ... across the border from you, the sails made by Port Townsend Sails (https://www.porttownsendsails.com/) seem to be highly rated for detail and durability.

Speaking of which, Carol Hasse has a number of articles and seminars on cruising sails, sail plans, and repairs.  Well worth seeking out or attending, although of course she does have a vested interest in selling these things.  Just some quick google results - sometimes her slide sets from various events can be found.

https://www.porttownsendsails.com/pdf/mainsails.pdf

https://www.porttownsendsails.com/pdf/blue_water.pdf

https://www.cruisingworld.com/how/mainsail-all-seasons/

https://www.porttownsendsails.com/videos.htm

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44 minutes ago, Zonker said:

- 2 big reefs would be my recommendation too. Especially for Patagonia.
- cloth matters. Find out what cloth they are using. Get the spec sheets. Dacron comes in 3 rough categories "cheap as possible for OEM and cheap bastard sailors / decent stuff (North Nordac usually fits here) / really good stuff"
Marblehead is "really good stuff"
- not going to comment on tri-radial Dacron. In most cases the extra cost would be better spent on a tri radial laminate (I think) but not sure. Laminate WILL have a shorter structural life than Dacron.
- RADIAL reinforcing patches with webbing. Not many sailmakers are still doing the old style overlapping rectangular / trapezoid patches but worth mentioning it
- can you easily reach the end of the boom and get at a leech line? If not run it up to the masthead and have a pulley there and down the luff to the gooseneck
- I like top 2 battens full and lower battens extra length. Gets you a more controllable shape. Shape actually changes when you ease outhaul for example
- Allslip slides are good at batten ends; just above reef tack points. Nylon in between though (this is not a big sail)
- lots of sailmakers use 2 rows of stepped zig zag. Each "zag" has like 3 stitches. This is perfectly acceptable.
- get a drawing of the proposed sail with patches. Sailmakers trying to shave costs will make reinforcing patches too small
- maybe extra reinforcement of the leech in an extra layer locally. Again talk to your sailmaker

Locally I'd talk to UK. Not impressed with Precision Sails. Would not give me straight answer as to which cloth they would use.

I like all of Zonk's recoms.  Only one change and one other suggestion:

Three rows of triple-step stitching not two on all seams.

Add a stress band at each reef point (an additional layer of cloth which runs from luff to leech, it helps reduce stretch and provides extra strength at each reefed foot location).

Cheers!

 

 

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35 minutes ago, ChuteFirst said:

Does anybody know where the Ullman Sails’ Endurance cloth ranks in quality? Same as, better, or worst than Marblehead, NorDac, etc.

Thanks

Endurance isn't a cloth, it's a product line.  Ullman offer the Series in woven Dacron, tafetta laminates, and membranes too.  You'll have to ask Ullman what cloth they're using to determine quality...

Cheers!

 

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5 minutes ago, toddster said:

Speaking of which, Carol Hasse has a number of articles and seminars on cruising sails, sail plans, and repairs.  Well worth seeking out or attending, although of course she does have a vested interest in selling these things.  

https://www.porttownsendsails.com/pdf/mainsails.pdf

https://www.porttownsendsails.com/pdf/blue_water.pdf

https://www.cruisingworld.com/how/mainsail-all-seasons/

 

This is good info - Carol H. is a rock star.  With a rock star price.  Would love her sails - can’t afford.  (I have some friends who recently bought an Orca 38 with a full set of Haase sails, hardly used.  Good luck, they had!

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

I have a free, new trysail for “just in case” conditions, depending on where we find ourselves (e.g., high latitudes).

Re: third reef, good point.  But my theory with third reef is to install only two cheek blocks on boom, therefore only two reefing lines  - 3rd reef rarely if ever used.  If needed, there’d be a dedicated line for in my mine storage area: easy to install on sail/run through 2nd reef cheekblock (everything is external on boom).  That’s the theory anyway.

But will get sailmaker’s thoughts on number of reef points and size of reefs.

It is very difficult the go from mainsail to trysail 

You need A second dedicated trysail track with a dedicated trysail halyard , sheave box  

 

When   flying the trysail from the main halyard   ... the wind gets your masthead length main halyard “singing and dancing “  ..it will tear things apart after s few hours 

for a normal cruiser... third reef and storm jib is how you attack  a breeze 

if things get wild , strike the main and sail under storm jib , staysail 

if things get even worse,  roll up the storm jib, staysail .. hunker down and run downwind under bare poles 

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Can't speak from experience, but one argument in favor of trysail vs third reef is that one puts the trysail out in potentially sacrificial conditions (e.g. rounding Cape Mendocino) and keep the main safely wrapped up.  After the blow, you still have a usable sail.  (i.e. the try takes the place of the "spare.") Of course, this all depends on having a facile way to deploy it, which takes careful planning and not a little expense. 

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I did ignore a few items that I'd add to a mainsail spec if it were for me:

- if the leech line cleat is on the cleat, then a sailcloth cover with velcro
- if the leech line is at the luff, then additional cleats just above each reef point
- triangular reinforcing patches at the end of each crosscut seam
- draft lines (will you use them)
- leech telltales (typically standard) tied to small webbing loops at leech (easier to replace than ones sewn to sail itself)
- Battslide batten ends
- tapered glass battens

I'd be very curious how many people that have owned a boat with a trysail have used it for real. Demonstrating at dock in advance of a race does not count :)

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And full length battens 

I don’t like them,, the extra mass aloft makes the mainsail unstable in light wind and a seaway 

thec mainsail stack gets too tall 

chafe is always a issue 

the compression load on the batten cars causes problems 

If  you go full battens carry spare parts and take your main to the sailmaker regularly to repair damage   

 

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1 hour ago, El Borracho said:

Unless there is an orangutan on the crew I think it is impossible to reeve a reefing line underway.

Not sure I have ever used my third reef in a fight. Used it as for lowering the sail in a blow. I think the one time I considered using it in weather I continued to bare poles. 
Cruising in truly remote waters without air or shipping services would imply carrying a second good main. Is Patagonia really that remote? Seems rather popular for a remote place. 

We used to do it often on a 43 footer. Key was an “endless loop” of small stuff from the second reef clew to the third. We would undo the first reef and feed the third if conditions were deteriorating.   Easier to do it then rather than wait until we were 15 minutes past wanting the third. 

Using a 3rd depends on the boat. We found ourselves with 3 and a storm jib often enough to appreciate it on that boat. 

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The third reef... deep reef is the night watch sail 

very often in the trade winds you are cursed by thunderstorms  

during the day you use your eyes and take action accordingly 

at night you tuck in the third reef and autopilot till dawn 

you and your autopilot can withstand heavy squalls  under the deep reef and a rolled up headsail 

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36 minutes ago, Zonker said:

I did ignore a few items that I'd add to a mainsail spec if it were for me:

- if the leech line cleat is on the cleat, then a sailcloth cover with velcro
- if the leech line is at the luff, then additional cleats just above each reef point
- triangular reinforcing patches at the end of each crosscut seam
- draft lines (will you use them)
- leech telltales (typically standard) tied to small webbing loops at leech (easier to replace than ones sewn to sail itself)
- Battslide batten ends
- tapered glass battens

I'd be very curious how many people that have owned a boat with a trysail have used it for real. Demonstrating at dock in advance of a race does not count :)

Thanks for all the advice.

I just happen to have a free trysail from a larger boat close to my size.  Plan to have e cut down at some point maybe, if it makes sense.  Focus now is new main.

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22 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

And full length battens 

I don’t like them,, the extra mass aloft makes the mainsail unstable in light wind and a seaway 

thec mainsail stack gets too tall 

chafe is always a issue 

the compression load on the batten cars causes problems 

If  you go full battens carry spare parts and take your main to the sailmaker regularly to repair damage   

 

Likely no full battens b/c of cost and complexity.  Or maybe just a few, and Allslip, as @Elegua

mentioned above he had.  Not familiar with - will lot and into.

 

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5 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Thanks for all the advice.

I just happen to have a free trysail from a larger boat close to my size.  Plan to have e cut down at some point maybe, if it makes sense.  Focus now is new main.

I also have a set of "free" storm sails that happen to fit my boat.  Although to my eye, they don't look all that heavily built. (Maybe someone just ordered them to satisfy some rule...) But all the gear required to make them practical to use is far from free.  I've been told I'm nuts to even try.  I look at it more as a training exercise.  You know, so I'll know how to use them when I get a "real bluewater boat." Much like the rest of my boat. :rolleyes:

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11 minutes ago, climenuts said:

FWIW Skip Novak puts 4th reefs and full battens on all his high latitude Palagic yachts.

image.thumb.png.d77cadbbbdc5db80abaf5513a5764624.png

And race boats carry 4 reefs 

this doesn’t mean that it’s suitable  for a cruiser 

A cruiser needs the most function that’s easy to use , with the highest reliability 

72790A04-29D5-41F2-A680-9076DC5BBFFB.jpeg

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11 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

And race boats carry 4 reefs 

this doesn’t mean that it’s suitable  for a cruiser 

A cruiser needs the most function that’s easy to use , with the highest reliability 

72790A04-29D5-41F2-A680-9076DC5BBFFB.jpeg

Skip’s situation and location are unique. (And he’s fully crewed.)

But, yes, function and reliability #1.

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Once I got a new main with dog-bones a change that I made that I'm very happy with is adding Tylaska T16 or T20 trigger snaps - can't remember which - but big enough to stick a gloved finger in - on dyneema strops instead of reef hooks on dog bones.  No snags or bouncing off the hook. 

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31 minutes ago, Elegua said:

Once I got a new main with dog-bones a change that I made that I'm very happy with is adding Tylaska T16 or T20 trigger snaps - can't remember which - but big enough to stick a gloved finger in - on dyneema strops instead of reef hooks on dog bones.  No snags or bouncing off the hook. 

I don’t even know what this means.  (I understand the “main” and “gloved finger” part.)  I’ve got some research to do :-)

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37 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Skip’s situation and location are unique. (And he’s fully crewed.)

But, yes, function and reliability #1.

If you are sailing west across the Atlantic this week you are sailing downwind in 10 knots of wind ...for days and days and days 

this means that normal folks build the biggest most powerful mainsail that fits on the  rig ...and that rig  chafe is the biggest issue

when choosing between cross cut and tri radial,  I prefer cross cut

the direction of the seams is parallel to the boom  so it flakes better and  these horizontal seams are less prone to chafe on rigging 

ask for highest quality Dacron and the best detailing 

 

 

070836CB-AEAB-486C-80AE-AA1A290132CB.jpeg

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6 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

N. America-Hawaii next year;

Regarding the other thread's recent discussion, the trip out to Hawaii and return are both weather routing navigator paradise. Not too complicated but a lot to gain when you get it right.

On the mainsail - we liked full battens - they minimize flogging - makes the sail sit quietly when you are reefing - and extend life.  For a sail as small as yours I doubt you need any super expensive hardware - but you can just go with extra long rather than full battens.

We liked two reefs. We did have a trysail and we did actually use it - not frequently but perhaps a couple times a year.  We thought carrying a spare main was a bad use of stowage space, and wanted our main to always be in good enough shape we were not worried about it, and we had repair materials.

We used 2 line reefing led back to the cockpit and there are some things to make that smoother, as their are some other things to make reefing up at the mast smoother (the tylaska strops mentioned are terrific, but the shackles at least were pretty pricy).

We always had a purchase put in the leach cord and its jam cleat installed lower than usual because then it was easier for Beth to operate.  Keeping the leach from fluttering is another way to increase life span.

From there, there are a ton of sail making details which would extend the life, but rather than try to specify all of them I think it is better to just find a sail maker you trust to get it right.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Zonker said:

- 2 big reefs would be my recommendation too. Especially for Patagonia.
- cloth matters. Find out what cloth they are using. Get the spec sheets. Dacron comes in 3 rough categories "cheap as possible for OEM and cheap bastard sailors / decent stuff (North Nordac usually fits here) / really good stuff"
Marblehead is "really good stuff"
- not going to comment on tri-radial Dacron. In most cases the extra cost would be better spent on a tri radial laminate (I think) but not sure. Laminate WILL have a shorter structural life than Dacron.
- RADIAL reinforcing patches with webbing. Not many sailmakers are still doing the old style overlapping rectangular / trapezoid patches but worth mentioning it
- can you easily reach the end of the boom and get at a leech line? If not run it up to the masthead and have a pulley there and down the luff to the gooseneck
- I like top 2 battens full and lower battens extra length. Gets you a more controllable shape. Shape actually changes when you ease outhaul for example
- Allslip slides are good at batten ends; just above reef tack points. Nylon in between though (this is not a big sail)
- lots of sailmakers use 2 rows of stepped zig zag. Each "zag" has like 3 stitches. This is perfectly acceptable.
- get a drawing of the proposed sail with patches. Sailmakers trying to shave costs will make reinforcing patches too small
- maybe extra reinforcement of the leech in an extra layer locally. Again talk to your sailmaker

Locally I'd talk to UK. Not impressed with Precision Sails. Would not give me straight answer as to which cloth they would use.

Marblehead doesn't seem to be lasting as well as it used to before they changed the yarns from Dupont Dacron 52 to "fiber 104 of unknown origins". Nordac Premium was nice but discontinued apparently. North dacron has generally been good, there is the odd report of it not lasting if you do a google search. It is hard for sailmakers because woven cloth can vary and change over time, but the name stays the same. 

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For your boat, 33 feet. Cross cut Dacron with three reef points. Metal head board, full battens or if you can not stand it full top two battens then long (50%) battens lower but really just do the full battens. In your application is is all about chafe and UV damage. For downwind look hard at chafe at the batten pockets and shrouds/ spreaders esp if swept back. Though this is more an annoyance then issue leading to failure. I would want really good corner patches, this is where Hasse or Schattauer sails are significantly different than brand x production sails but the extra hand work cost money. Dbl layer sails can be nice but I do not think required in a 33 footer. 

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I know a couple of people have mentioned the trip to Hawaii is pretty easy (and it is for the most part), but we did experience 50 knot gusts heading out the Straits on one of my Vic-Maui's, and another crew mate mentioned they had a couple days of wind in that range from the Southwest on one of his other Vic-Maui's.  So it's not unheard of to get some wind that might require significantly reduced sail.  Just saying.

Of course when you're cruising you can just hole up for a couple of days and wait it out.

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3 minutes ago, sam_crocker said:

I know a couple of people have mentioned the trip to Hawaii is pretty easy (and it is for the most part), but we did experience 50 knot gusts heading out the Straits on one of my Vic-Maui's, and another crew mate mentioned they had a couple days of wind in that range from the Southwest on one of his other Vic-Maui's.  So it's not unheard of to get some wind that might require significantly reduced sail.  Just saying.

Of course when you're cruising you can just hole up for a couple of days and wait it out.

It’s Mendocino and Blanco that are sometimes gnarly, and on the return, where gales at higher latitudes, could have some surprises.  (I know a Navy Commander who drives big ships and teaches meteorology and has raced numerous times to a Hawaii who was caught off guard off N. California heading to SF...unforecast/unexpected pressure...)

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13 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

It’s Mendocino and Blanco that are sometimes gnarly, and on the return, where gales at higher latitudes, could have some surprises.  (I know a Navy Commander who drives big ships and teaches meteorology and has raced numerous times to a Hawaii who was caught off guard off N. California heading to SF...unforecast/unexpected pressure...)

With modern satellite  communications and weather data you can clearly “ see” weather conditions a week out 

By using  patience and good seamanship you can minimize your interaction with heavy weather 

it a mistake to make your boat into  a battle tank ...

90 percent of ocean sailing is broad reaching  in light to moderate conditions 

concentrate your sail inventory cash pile  on these  moderate reaching  conditions 

 

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1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

With modern satellite  communications and weather data you can clearly “ see” weather conditions a week out 

By using  patience and good seamanship you can minimize your interaction with heavy weather 

it a mistake to make your boat into  a battle tank ...

90 percent of ocean sailing is broad reaching  in light to moderate conditions 

concentrate your sail inventory cash pile  on these  moderate reaching  conditions 

 

Naturally.  No plan to “make it into a battle tank”.  I’ll get the largest main I can fit, with 2-3 reefs.  (Trysail I got for free - cheap to recut at some point later on, depending on where I am/if needed.)

But I don’t have a sat phone, and won’t necessarily in the near term, so I prefer to be *reasonably* prepared than to just trust a weather model.

(And a better light air headsail when I can afford it.)

 

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I got a new main and genoa from Leitch & McBride a couple of years ago. https://www.leitchandmcbride.com/cruising-sails/

They were actually made in the USA by a major loft (Doyle, as I remember) and sent to L&M for the finals, they came out to the boat and took the measurements. Full batten main, loose foot. They were good about fixing any problems. Quote was better than any others I trusted.

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3 hours ago, estarzinger said:

 

Thanks a ton for your thoughts and insights, Evans.  Great food for thought.  You’ve “been there and done that” :-)  Yeah, I’m most interested in getting a handle on routing - especially back (and deciding on whether through or over top of the H).

This project has opened up in my mind the possibility of dual line reefing (i.e., one line for each reef: I assume that’s what you mean) - my new boom has two sheaves front and back - but my inclination is to keep it simple, as it currently is - since dual line reefing then means I need to run the halyard aft, need more blocks, more friction points, etc.  (And that’s not even talking mainsail slides...)

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1 minute ago, Ishmael said:

I got a new main and genoa from Leitch & McBride a couple of years ago. https://www.leitchandmcbride.com/cruising-sails/

They were actually made in the USA by a major loft (Doyle, as I remember) and sent to L&M for the finals, they came out to the boat and took the measurements. Full batten main, loose foot. They were good about fixing any problems. Quote was better than any others I trusted.

A possibility I’m considering - uncertainty comes from that Brett recently retired, and he (specifically) was highly recommended locally by some folks I know —but he’s sold the biz to someone.  Seems definitely worth considering, though.  

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1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

90 percent of ocean sailing is broad reaching  in light to moderate conditions 

concentrate your sail inventory cash pile  on these  moderate reaching  conditions 

There's a logic to that.  

But I think it's too simplistic.  There are many ways of broad reaching in light to moderate conditions, and any old second hand rag will do if you pole out.

Where your cash needs to go is on the gear that you really need to survive.  That means heavy weather sails, and windward sails.

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5 hours ago, slug zitski said:

very often in the trade winds you are cursed by thunderstorms  

during the day you use your eyes and take action accordingly 

at night you tuck in the third reef and autopilot till dawn 

Sure. 

If you want to slow slowly for 1/2 your passage... How about "reef when it gets windy". That works too. If you can't reef in a squall quickly, you've maybe set up your boat poorly.

5 hours ago, Elegua said:

Once I got a new main with dog-bones a change that I made that I'm very happy with is adding Tylaska T16 or T20 trigger snaps - can't remember which - but big enough to stick a gloved finger in - on dyneema strops instead of reef hooks on dog bones.  No snags or bouncing off the hook

Dog bones =  a s.s. ring either side of the reef tack eye. Joined by a webbing strop.

image.png.9de24d8fc13d8b29f42494c4aca4050e.png

instead of a reefing hook, he uses a Tylaska brand snap shackle to attach to the ring. 

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12 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Sure. 

If you want to slow slowly for 1/2 your passage... How about "reef when it gets windy". That works too. If you can't reef in a squall quickly, you've maybe set up your boat poorly.

Dog bones =  a s.s. ring either side of the reef tack eye. Joined by a webbing strop.

image.png.9de24d8fc13d8b29f42494c4aca4050e.png

instead of a reefing hook, he uses a Tylaska brand snap shackle to attach to the ring. 

I run a reefing line from one side of the mast to the other, going through the reef cringle. Even if you want to do it at the mast (I run it back to the cockpit), it is far better than trying to keep the ring on the reefing hook. It also gives you a 2:1 purchase as a bonus.

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10 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Thanks - my inclination is also to keep it simple.  However, I’m wondering if any of the (sorta basic?) added features (try-radial construction, some extra reinforcement, etc) will help eke out a bit more life without adding hugely to cost.

I mean, I wanna be able to plan to be in Patagonian Chile in 5 years, so I want a sail that I buy now to be able to hold up for a while after, say, a Hawaii trip, local coastal sailing, and hopefully Alaska and return too (this time offshore instead of Inside Passage).

Patagonia in 5 years?.... I dream of that as well....sigh...

Meanwhile.

First new main  I bought for my boat was full battens.... for reasons lost in the mists of time  I had it altered to 3/4 battens a few years later.

I had a 4th reef added before sailing from NZ to Chile..... never ever used it over the next 3 years I had that sail.

Next sail just had three reefs and plus half length battens ( pic is of that sail when 11 years old ) as does the present one...new in 2019.

I seem to spend a lot of time with the third reef in and very little time under full main.

Note... it is a mug's game going to windward in any sort of weather in Patagonia.

P9220133.jpg

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36 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

my inclination is to keep it simple,

yea, for your boat I would keep it simple with standard reefing at the mast.  I dont know how you secure your luff reef points - with horns? But the strap plus clip (tylaska or other) is probably better than horns - both easier/quicker and more secure.  These things are only small marginal gains though. Whatever you have and are used to is probably just fine - it has worked this far and the loads are not enormous. It is easy to over think things.

 For Hawk, we had the hard dodger and it was a bigger boat and bringing the reefing back made more sense (it was designed for it).

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Thanks a ton for your thoughts and insights, Evans.  Great food for thought.  You’ve “been there and done that” :-)  Yeah, I’m most interested in getting a handle on routing - especially back (and deciding on whether through or over top of the H).

This project has opened up in my mind the possibility of dual line reefing (i.e., one line for each reef: I assume that’s what you mean) - my new boom has two sheaves front and back - but my inclination is to keep it simple, as it currently is - since dual line reefing then means I need to run the halyard aft, need more blocks, more friction points, etc.  (And that’s not even talking mainsail slides...)

I take it that means you can only run two reefing pennants.... in that case I would rig second and third and ignore the first.

My set up is 'as built'.... main halyard at the mast...... reefing pennants led back - along with the vang - to the cockpit.

Works well two handed... one at the mast doing that bit... crew in cockpit can keep tending the pennants so when putting in  reefs you don't have all that string thrashing around in the sky.

Re headsails....  I bought a new genoa in NZ in 2015.... used it on a few day sails then back in the bag ... next time it came out was late 19 for the trip up Ecuador. Working jib a lot more useful for either windward or downhill work.

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I put pad eyes on the winch bases and lashed the shackles.  I'm sure there are better ways to do it, but this seemed a simple implementation.  I also attach my tricky-pig to the pad eye as well and go through the cringle for an extra 2-to-1. 

ACtC-3eLqu-6XjdqkZLc1K_9wfSASEiko4J_fTGc

Actually I blame Estar. I think I read it on his website sometime or somewhere, misunderstood it, recalled it incorrectly, misapplied it, and altered it beyond recognition with half-baked implementation all while saying it is his.  I think we know now why he took down his materials. 

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30 minutes ago, Elegua said:

Actually I blame Estar. ... I think we know now why he took down his materials. 

lol . . . but dude, black dyneema !!??  Only pink is ever allowed for lashings - tested 1000 ways as vastly superior B)

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13 hours ago, TwoLegged said:
13 hours ago, chester said:

Lake diefenbaker...resevoir of the south saskatchewan river.  it's actually about 180 KM long and 180 feet deep down the centre and there a lot of anchorages in the coulees off the lake.  it's the priairies so there is usually a useful breeze

Sounds like lots of fun for exploring ... but also a probably a very difft use case to what Jud has in mind.

It is, but it's a great place to sail during the summer.

IMG_0029.thumb.jpg.5f4ae5c3b83597a69356538e844e108e.jpg

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10 hours ago, Zonker said:

Sure. 

If you want to slow slowly for 1/2 your passage... How about "reef when it gets windy". That works too. If you can't reef in a squall quickly, you've maybe set up your boat poorly.

Dog bones =  a s.s. ring either side of the reef tack eye. Joined by a webbing strop.

image.png.9de24d8fc13d8b29f42494c4aca4050e.png

instead of a reefing hook, he uses a Tylaska brand snap shackle to attach to the ring. 

Naw 

In trade winds sailing... +120 awa ...it’s your poled out Genoa with a furling   Jibtop to leeward , that generates the horsepower needed  to pull you to your destination 

Even in fine conditions the main is typically reefed to reduce chafe ,  then over-trimmed  and prevented  to dampen roll

this combo is very easy to single hand from the cockpit , its gentle on the boat, the crew  , the autopilot, the sails  and it’s plenty fast 

It’s  possible that I loose a few daily  miles ... but remember the tortoise and the hare 

us tortoises arrive fresh  and immediately   hit the bar ...then surrounded by  cold beers  we pass on advice to those speedy  hares about getting their broken gooseneck welded up , mainsail repaired , the best autopilot to replace the one that  burnt up ... plus a new wife 

 

 

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8 hours ago, estarzinger said:

lol . . . but dude, black dyneema !!??  Only pink is ever allowed for lashings - tested 1000 ways as vastly superior B)

Wait? Wut? Is that why pink never goes on sale? I never see it in the odd-lots at Hamilton. 

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I’m surprised hydranet wasn’t mentioned. What shape will Dacron sails be in 5 yrs in the future for a trip to Patagonia .  

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30 minutes ago, gn4478 said:

I’m surprised hydranet wasn’t mentioned. What shape will Dacron sails be in 5 yrs in the future for a trip to Patagonia .  

Thanks - I haven’t heard of this (which isn’t surprising).  Honestly, my Dacron sails are 25+ years old...(not for long now! :-) )  Very interesting- wonder what the up-front cost would be for my sails in Hydra Net.

https://www.uksailmakers.com/sails-overview-cruising/radial-hydranet-cruising-mainsail

Although Hydra Net® is one of the most expensive materials used to make sails, these sails are still a good value because the price difference is offset by the fact that these sails last so long -- they are typically the last sails a boat ever needs.”

 

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On 3/15/2021 at 10:03 AM, fufkin said:

Full Battens. Even if your main is made of tissue paper it will hold its shape for (years) longer and hold its shape better when reefed.

It will also give you the vital 'pinch high(slight luff curve in the battens w/o flutter) under motor sail main only mode' that can be great in narrow channels or sounds that you can't quite get with partial battens.

Personally I'd go the extra distance for a Harken Battcar system. If you're gonna spend boat bucks this is the place to do it.

Cool - good info.  I’m starting to grasp the whole spend a bit of money up front to make things last longer argument.  I know little about battens - hadn’t realized they’d help hold sail shape that much longer.

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I would definitely do all full battens if you can make it work with your mast car system - they make a big difference in sail wear and tear, and really reduce flogging.  Your main is small enough (unless you're adding some crazy roach as part of the new sail) the compression loads should be pretty low, so shouldn't need to go to fancy ball bearing systems.  Either way, would advise against ball bearings.  We use antal sliders on the mainsail on a 70' and they work great, and no risk of losing balls.

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On 3/15/2021 at 8:10 AM, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Thanks - my inclination is also to keep it simple.  However, I’m wondering if any of the (sorta basic?) added features (try-radial construction, some extra reinforcement, etc) will help eke out a bit more life without adding hugely to cost.

I mean, I wanna be able to plan to be in Patagonian Chile in 5 years, so I want a sail that I buy now to be able to hold up for a while after, say, a Hawaii trip, local coastal sailing, and hopefully Alaska and return too (this time offshore instead of Inside Passage).

Tri-radial works best with laminate sails.  You want the sail to last as long as possible and laminate sails generally hold their shape longer than dacron.  Tri-radial design lets the sailmaker take advantage of orienting the strongest direction of the cloth along the load lines.  Once they are blown out, though, you pretty much need a new one, as they pretty much can't be recut.

For a dacron sail, go cross-cut.  Much easier for a sailmaker to re-cut, and a good sailmaker can take a blown-out dacron cross-cut and make it look quite good again.  You'll get some extra years of life out of a cross-cut dacron.

You people are scaring me about Precision.  I ordered a new main from them for my cruiser and I hope I didn't make a big mistake.  I was careful about cloth specification and design.  Hope they don't fuck it up in production.  I will report back in three weeks when it arrives.

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11 hours ago, Rain Man said:

You people are scaring me about Precision.  I ordered a new main from them for my cruiser and I hope I didn't make a big mistake.  I was careful about cloth specification and design.  Hope they don't fuck it up in production.  I will report back in three weeks when if it arrives.

Best of luck.

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11 hours ago, Rain Man said:

I was careful about cloth specification and design

That probably helps. Delos probably took what was offered, which might not have been their best cloth.

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11 hours ago, Rain Man said:

You people are scaring me about Precision.  I ordered a new main from them for my cruiser and I hope I didn't make a big mistake.  I was careful about cloth specification and design.  Hope they don't fuck it up in production.  I will report back in three weeks when it arrives.

Can you post pics when it arrives?

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1 hour ago, Zonker said:

Delos probably took what was offered, which might not have been their best cloth.

Maybe, but that would be a dumb promo.  If you are giving a freebie in return for publicity, give them your best quality so that they are not embarrassed by them binning your product after a few seasons.

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