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16 hours ago, Editor said:

 

Macintosh SSD:Users:davidsalter:Desktop:Race 6 1983.jpg

 

So that’s that for another three years. New Zealand retains the America’s Cup 7-3. Yet apart from the excruciating – and ultimately unfair – Race 8, and the desperately lucky (for NZ) Race 9, the contest tended towards the monotonous, predictable, even anticlimactic. The faster boat won, as it always has since 1970.

(“Unfair” because the Kiwi splashdown was a clear error of commission – they gybed into the backwind of the Italians while Luna Rossa came off their foils later in that race only because the breeze had momentarily disappeared. And “lucky” in  Race 9 because textbook tactics from the Italians handed the Kiwis an undeserved winning 20% lift.)

The short, narrow courses with boundaries designed for television limited tactical options. There was no room to take a “flyer” or hang on to a favorable shift. Meanwhile, the Hauraki Gulf failed to deliver the expected stiff breezes, so the boats rarely hit anything approaching their maximum speeds.  

For the most part, watching eight of these ten races provided little more than a quick sugar hit. There were, at best, 90 seconds of genuine excitement in the pre-start, a few minutes of mild anticipation to confirm that the boat that won the start would lead at the first mark, then a five-leg procession in which there were no passes and the only real interest was to check the gap and compare VMGs and boat speeds.  

Perhaps realizing that these wham-bang-thank-you-m’am encounters lacked real drama the commentators and pundits pumped up the hype and rushed to declare the ‘return of match racing’ in Auckland, or speculate about hypothetical ‘passing lanes’. Both were in regrettably short supply. 

Back when AC boats kept their hulls in the water the pre-start dogfights could last up to ten minutes and made riveting viewing. Hitting the line on ‘zero’ was largely irrelevant. It was tough, aggressive, hand-to-hand combat. Circling, luffing, false tacks, bearing away – they used tactical flair, sheer sailing skill and every trick in the rule-book to gain an advantage.

Comparisons can be odious, but there are many other factors from the history of the America’s Cup that, considered against the series just concluded, might help explain why the AC36 racing at times seemed so alien to the fundamentals of the event.

Let’s take the 1983 challenge, Australia II v Liberty, as our base line. It was the last to be sailed at Newport and the second-last to be sailed in 12 metres. Here are a few ‘then and now’ comparisons:

*  In 1983 the 12 metres displaced around 23 tons and sailed at 8 knots. The boats were almost always in dueling contact. The foiling monomarans in Auckland weighed around 7.5 tons and could do 50 knots. Those high speeds multiply differences, so a small lead blew out to 500 metres or more very quickly. 

*  The course in Newport was 24.3 miles, including a triangle. Every point of sailing was tested, as was the stamina and concentration of the crews. The courses in Auckland were windward/leeward only, and around 10 miles in length. It was impossible, at a glance, to tell whether the AC75s were sailing uphill or downhill.

*  The average elapsed time in Newport was roughly 4 hours, with a time limit of 5 hours and 15 minutes. Mistakes could be corrected, gear failures overcome. The races in Auckland took between 25 and 40 minutes to complete – one eighth of the time. Losing the start, even by a few seconds, was usually fatal.

More significant than those stark physical contrasts are the different styles of racing. 

Until the carbon multihulls took over the Cup, all boats sailed with poled spinnakers. This added a significant tactical dimension and put a premium on crew work. One botched gybe could cost a race; a perfect delayed drop and mark rounding might win one. Each maneuver was a crucial – and visible – test of teamwork and skill.

In Auckland, eight of the eleven crew in the AC75s spent their race below gunnel level, heads down, just grinding. They were proxy engines, and rarely, if ever, touched a line or control. Sail trim was a matter of inches. To television viewers it is was if the jib and main were kept sheeted on hard for the entire race. Helming was like steering a car.

The closeness in performance of the 12 metres encouraged epic boat-on-boat battles. It was not uncommon for them to throw 30 tacks at each other on a single upwind leg. Yet in the third race in 1983 Liberty and Australia II stayed on the same tack for 22 minutes, each daring the other to break away. Multiple lead changes and come-from-behind wins were not exceptional 30 years ago. The tension for spectators was exquisite.

This year, during one sequence of 14 Prada Cup races in Auckland, the lead never changed over the 84 legs sailed – except once, when the American Magic capsize let Luna Rossa through. Then, during the Cup itself, there were just two or three genuine passes in the 59 legs sailed. It was difficult to get excited by those repetitive processions. One small mistake and it was usually game over.

None of this is to say that the event in New Zealand wasn’t worth watching. It was the America’s Cup, after all, even if – bizarrely – the worst mistake a crew could make was to actually let their ‘boat’ touch the water.

Perhaps the most revealing aspect to emerge from the series, at least for me, was that sheer speed doesn’t matter. It’s the differential that counts. Close racing is just as engrossing at 5 knots as it is at 40. All those hundreds of millions of dollars spent developing foiling monomarans might have kept a lot of sailing folk in work but it delivered no real extra value to the event. Watching boats duel at 30 knots quickly became unremarkable. 

And if it showed us anything, this competition between two low-flying seaplanes demonstrated that the pinnacle of sailing now has virtually no practical connection with what most of us know as ‘yacht racing’. Nor is it likely to have popularized the sport. The general public, if they were aware of the event at all, would have been utterly bemused.

Let’s hope that the next America’s Cup is contested in boats.

- anarchist David

What an absolute pile of rubbish. Since when has yachting and especially the Americas Cup been about the general public. You have a right to your views, but you do not speak for all sailors.

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29 minutes ago, Don said:

What an absolute pile of rubbish. Since when has yachting and especially the Americas Cup been about the general public. You have a right to your views, but you do not speak for all sailors.

Enthusiasts of any type are a funny lot.

Want more money to go play but don't want to broaden the appeal of what they do to a wider audience to generate that money.

Want more teams but don't want to put ideas in place to make that happen because it takes away from the "purity".

The term mutually exclusive is a concept they seem to ignore.

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5 hours ago, Jean-Baptiste said:

I was in Lorient earlier at La Base, no one talking about Cup, foil mini proto yes, foil IMOCA yes, Figaro yes, Ultim yes, AC non. Course too restrictive as made for TV. Boats very cool, but as spectacle is not so much interesting.

 

What do you expect, it was Lorient! The interest amongst the sailors there is all about short handed or long distance ocean sailing. Kevin, Charles, Frank et al are driven towards that NOT the America's Cup

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Always this quasi-religious reference to the boring !2 metres; the 12s, in reality of the time period, were complete and utter pigs/dogs/turkeys - and they were NOT the apotheosis  of yacht design of the period.  In that semi-outlaw/outrageous country of radical yacht design and development, you know the one I'm referring to, where the oinker 12s were blindly considered the peak of race yacht development, there had already been, for a number of years, truly advanced, lightweight and outrageously fast sailing designs from Farr, Whiting, Davidson and Young. And dare I mention the other outlaws of the time, the multihulls.

 

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1 hour ago, shanghaisailor said:

What do you expect, it was Lorient! The interest amongst the sailors there is all about short handed or long distance ocean sailing. Kevin, Charles, Frank et al are driven towards that NOT the America's Cup

Decent coverage in French media, I was slightly surprised lack of interest in Concarneau and Lorient. 

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Wind and Waves. I think it's the stadium courses that kill it for me. Wind limits, flat water, tight course boundaries, it feels restrictive, almost clinical. The 10-15 knot range I found boring, it was the lower and upper wind ranges that had me interested. Can they stay on foils in fuck all breeze, are they going to bin it in the death zone around the top mark in 20+ knots.

The 12's in '87 were epic because of the venue - wind and waves. All these years on I'll still happily watch those beasts smashing through big swell. I'm still amazed by the skill of those crews, just hanging on in those conditions is hard enough, let alone handling sails etc.

The Cape Town inshore races of the Volvo Race are also epic to watch, usually because of the wind and waves. V70's hopelessly short on crew numbers trying to wrestle them around a course, boat handling & decisions at a premium, water over the deck, that shit is cool to watch.

Also boats that can wipe out without ruining your whole campaign and pissing millions up the wall for nothing. American Magic eating shit was awesome to watch, it was spectacular, but then it laid down and died and it was all over red rover. I like watching skiffs cartwheeling & ejecting crew, or a TP52 laid flat in a shit gybe, but they usually get back up, shake it off and keep racing without spending the next week inside a boat building facility never to be the same again. Boats being pushed to the absolute edge of control are cool to watch. No doubt the AC75's are on the edge most of the time but when one does crash and burn I want to see it get back up and shake it off without the aid of 5 support boats. 

I can live with time limits and short races because I have the attention span of a 2 year old. It's also made for TV viewing. It might also attract non sailors to watch. If I'm bored and channel surfing the tv I'll happily watch some obscure sport I know nothing about as long as it doesn't drag on for hours. It usually sends me off googling the rules or the main players etc.

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1 hour ago, Groucho Marx said:

Always this quasi-religious reference to the boring !2 metres; the 12s, in reality of the time period, were complete and utter pigs/dogs/turkeys - and they were NOT the apotheosis  of yacht design of the period.  In that semi-outlaw/outrageous country of radical yacht design and development, you know the one I'm referring to, where the oinker 12s were blindly considered the peak of race yacht development, there had already been, for a number of years, truly advanced, lightweight and outrageously fast sailing designs from Farr, Whiting, Davidson and Young. And dare I mention the other outlaws of the time, the multihulls.

 

Actually, I think that's a point in favor of the 12m nostalgia. They weren't the pinnacle of yacht design and deliberately selected to allow affordable competition in the postwar economy. The J boats were also chosen as a cost-saving measure, as the syndicates were tired of boats that barely held together for the match and were immediately useless after.

These were not necessarily the most cutting-edge classes available at the time. They were rules that allowed innovation to be showcased but were chosen for reasons other than total balls-out performance to the exclusion of everything else.

As for me, the Cup since 2007 has lost me. I no longer feel like I'm watching the same sport that I play. Simple as that.

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3 hours ago, Groucho Marx said:

Always this quasi-religious reference to the boring !2 metres; the 12s, in reality of the time period, were complete and utter pigs/dogs/turkeys - and they were NOT the apotheosis  of yacht design of the period.  In that semi-outlaw/outrageous country of radical yacht design and development, you know the one I'm referring to, where the oinker 12s were blindly considered the peak of race yacht development, there had already been, for a number of years, truly advanced, lightweight and outrageously fast sailing designs from Farr, Whiting, Davidson and Young. And dare I mention the other outlaws of the time, the multihulls.

 

Also Elliot, Ross, Holland, and earlier Spencer, Townson, Stewart

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I have no desire to see the return of the 12s but I can count on one hand how many races were the slightest bit exciting after the start and one of those races AM tipped their boat over and almost sunk. 

No use complaining though because these boats will be back for another cycle.  Hopefully the next generation of these boats produce a bit more excitement in AC37.  

Having said all that, what are the prospects there will be more than 4 teams for AC37?  Between COVID, the boats and possibly a BS 2 team Cup in England it doesn’t appear promising at the moment, IMO. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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22 hours ago, kenergy said:

Fuck, never too soon for a good whinge. 

Why fucking bother.

In this age of equality and fairness, even the Flat Earther's need some publicity time I guess.... and I thought my ex was a negative $#@

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23 hours ago, Editor said:

(“Unfair” because the Kiwi splashdown was a clear error of commission – they gybed into the backwind of the Italians while Luna Rossa came off their foils later in that race only because the breeze had momentarily disappeared. And “lucky” in  Race 9 because textbook tactics from the Italians handed the Kiwis an undeserved winning 20% lift.)

 

What a biased viewpoint you have.

Bruni actually admitted the splashdown during the tack was their own error and Nathan O also pointed out the point when the foil cavitated. Both teams made mistakes causing the splashdowns, NZ were just able to get foiling quicker, so maybe luck, maybe better foils?

As to the tactical error, NZ were piling on the pressure and LR had the option to go either way, and made the wrong choice. Maybe under less pressure they would have made the right call. If they had sailed textbook tactics, they would have sailed into righthand shift, they didn't, and lost.

If anything, LR got lucky earlier on that beat, when they wanted to protect the right, but couldn't as NZ were too close, and they were forced left, and got a lucky left hand shift out of it.

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12 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

Formula E is pretty cool. Different designs and Battery management is just like Tire management in F1. 

At least they don't get to swap cars during the bloody race any more. WTF?

(Actually, I'm amazed no one's tried to figure out how to change batteries in a hurry). How hard could that be?

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59 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

(Actually, I'm amazed no one's tried to figure out how to change batteries in a hurry). How hard could that be?

Quite hard actually. Whenever I need to change batteries in a hurry I either can't find the mini screwdriver needed to remove the battery cover, the little rubber O-ring won't sit in the right place when I try to put it back, or it turns out that despite having a huge box of spare batteries, I don't have one that's the correct size.

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1 minute ago, Dave S said:

Quite hard actually. Whenever I need to change batteries in a hurry I either can't find the mini screwdriver needed to remove the battery cover, the little rubber O-ring won't sit in the right place when I try to put it back, or it turns out that despite having a huge box of spare batteries, I don't have one that's the correct size.

Ha, ha. Same problem Different application.

The batteries are in the floor, right? Disconnect spent batteries, unclip and drop to the floor. Push car forward over charged replacements, clip in and re-connect.

Remember, it used to be a problem undoing five wheel nuts to replace a tyre. "What if we..." soon sorted that.

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5 hours ago, Sisu3360 said:

 

As for me, the Cup since 2007 has lost me. I no longer feel like I'm watching the same sport that I play. Simple as that.

This is the crux of the issue to me.  Up until 2007 the AC followed one particular part of our sport, that is, leadmine boats.  But our sport is multi-faceted and the Cup is exploring that in the new designs.  And it is following what the new generation of sailors are sailing.  All new designs for the next gen are foiling from moths to cats to boards.  The AC is keeping itself relevant to the future of the sport.  It needs some tweaks for sure

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46 minutes ago, punter said:

But our sport is multi-faceted and the Cup is exploring that in the new designs.  And it is following what the new generation of sailors are sailing.

Isn't the innovation the other way around (moths excepted)?

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5 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Isn't the innovation the other way around (moths excepted)?

I'd say not. For example a lot of what happened through AC33-35 originated in the C-Class. I think claims of trickle-down from the AC are often exaggerated.

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Just now, dogwatch said:

I'd say not. For example a lot of what happened through AC33-35 originated in the C-Class. I think claims of trickle-down from the AC are often exaggerated.

OK. Let's call it momentum, then. The AC has accelerated foiling momentum. At least that is what I'm seeing.

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Possibly yes. Innovation and momentum are two different things. Though arguably, foiling is turning up all over in places that hardly look to the AC. Surfing. Kite-boarding. Maybe it looks different in NZ where there's more consciousness of the AC. 

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Technology is not the issue, these foiling boats are indeed awesome and a result of the AC technology arms race. However: the lack of variability resulting in inevitability is an issue as with one mistake = you lose. That makes the boats work, but the event not so. 

It makes for lack of spectacle, reduced tactical and strategic options, lack of opportunity for people to make a lasting difference through their choices, input or endurance,  lack of incidents and opportunity (and mishap) to come knocking, lack of heroic story telling. These are all things that all good sports events rely on.

And those restrictions are totally defined by the race framework, not the technology.

  • Longer races where reliability and endurance play a role and that allow strategic choices.
  • Longer, wider (or unbounded) race courses that allow the use of the water, wind, obstacles to shape strategy (and no stupid course boundaries where you have right of way "to get out of jail"),
  • longer (10 minutes or so) pre-starts that really force these pre-start duels,
  • faster infringement rules but less severe (=not race losing) penalties to make the game tighter, But they must allow for fierce battle and risk taking. 
  • etc etc. 

Current AV technology allows eyes and ears to be everywhere and superimposed tactical plots also work on larger race areas, so the TV crowd will still get their fill. However, the commentators now have to show more real insight rather than just following the boats around the course. 

(the ironic thing is that these AV advances on small courses that show a 600m lead actually work adversely: it puts people off watching rather than engaging them, as the result on a short course is almost inevitable)

Assume the technology provides a given performance, and flex the framework and rules to make the event work. That's what F1 (as far as I can tell) have been doing for years. 

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15 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

I'd say not. For example a lot of what happened through AC33-35 originated in the C-Class. I think claims of trickle-down from the AC are often exaggerated.

Absolutely! The claim that the AC is at the forefront is so false on so many occasions. The AC in recent history has picked up trends that have been established elsewhere and the over exaggerated them just to say they are the forefront of technology.

This cycle was taking what is happening offshore already and putting it into an inshore package and claiming they are geniuses.

Give me a fucking break.

The boats are awesome, but all they are doing is trying to monetise existing concepts.

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17 minutes ago, TomTom said:

Technology is not the issue, these foiling boats are indeed awesome and a result of the AC technology arms race. However: the lack of variability resulting in inevitability is an issue as with one mistake = you lose. That makes the boats work, but the event not so. 

It makes for lack of spectacle, reduced tactical and strategic options, lack of opportunity for people to make a lasting difference through their choices, input or endurance,  lack of incidents and opportunity (and mishap) to come knocking, lack of heroic story telling. These are all things that all good sports events rely on.

And those restrictions are totally defined by the race framework, not the technology.

  • Longer races where reliability and endurance play a role and that allow strategic choices.
  • Longer, wider (or unbounded) race courses that allow the use of the water, wind, obstacles to shape strategy (and no stupid course boundaries where you have right of way "to get out of jail"),
  • longer (10 minutes or so) pre-starts that really force these pre-start duels,
  • faster infringement rules but less severe (=not race losing) penalties to make the game tighter, But they must allow for fierce battle and risk taking. 
  • etc etc. 

Current AV technology allows eyes and ears to be everywhere and superimposed tactical plots also work on larger race areas, so the TV crowd will still get their fill. However, the commentators now have to show more real insight rather than just following the boats around the course. 

(the ironic thing is that these AV advances on small courses that show a 600m lead actually work adversely: it puts people off watching rather than engaging them, as the result on a short course is almost inevitable)

Assume the technology provides a given performance, and flex the framework and rules to make the event work. That's what F1 (as far as I can tell) have been doing for years. 

There is a lot of sense in this.

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AC MUST be ahead in technology. New sailor generations will play foyling and they will desire it more and more. What about a 12 m campain? None of the best sailors will be interested on taking part, it will be declassed into a B series for nostalgic sailors, therefore disappear due to lack of interest and sponsor.

What has been in the bast has ended, even if unique moments and actions will never be forgotten. The future of AC is in the future of the boats. More mistakes will occure of course but the line is drawn. My two cents

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5 hours ago, punter said:

But our sport is multi-faceted and the Cup is exploring that in the new designs.  And it is following what the new generation of sailors are sailing.  All new designs for the next gen are foiling from moths to cats to boards.

It's a facet of the sport that is still inaccessible to most of us. Want to get into displacement sailing? Buy a $1500 beater laser (or cheaper) and mix it up with your local fleet, which you're guaranteed to find nearby. Want to get into foiling? The best you can do is find a used UFO for at least 3-4 times the cost of the laser, and where is your fleet? There was one guy who had one on our lake, and he sold it because he wasn't sailing it. Plenty of Scow and PHRF sailing to be had instead.

Sure, the AC can use any class it wants, but this notion that foiling is the future of sailing is magical thinking that will leave many parts of the community (I daresay its core) behind. Most of us are stuck with the fleets that have critical mass in our areas. I'm not complaining - I'd rather have better competition than the most exciting boat. If I wanted to play with the newest technology above all else I wouldn't have gotten into sailing in the first place.

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AC does not have to be the knifes edge of technology.  A less costly AC box rule design could easily become a world class event with multiple teams participating.  More races, more global exposure = better event.  Maybe the defender and CoR will agree that something needs to be done to significantly reduce not only the cost but the enviro impact of a sporting event seen by the world as a playground for the ultra wealthy.  The defender may have won but did the cost to play hurt them so much they are partnering up with a wealthy adversary just to stay afloat for the next edition.....

The best sailors / pros need a paycheck.  They will sail for whatever team is footing the bill on whatever barge the event is using.  AC programs offer multi year job security I don't think any will pass up an opportunity because the boat isn't sporty enough.  This AC had some good sailors just grinding with their heads down for an entire race - why - for the $$$.

Interested and dedicated sponsors will go wherever the action is on whatever barge is in play. 

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17 hours ago, SunFroggy said:

1983 3-4

1987 0-4

When people cry for the good 'ol days, these two regattas are the only things they are referring to.  And like you highlighted, in 1983 there were extended periods where no maneuvers, no sail changes were happening.  Fuck, even the start of race 7 was boring...no engagement and Australia was 8 seconds late.  

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12 hours ago, Sisu3360 said:

As for me, the Cup since 2007 has lost me. I no longer feel like I'm watching the same sport that I play. Simple as that.

That's too bad.  I learn something that I can apply to my own racing every time I watch, and I sail a 1984 Capri 25.  All the same principles apply... get time and distance down, get to the favored side, find clear air, perform clean maneuvers, cover your competition, recover from mistakes, never give up.  Mostly I feel sorry for the sailors who can't enjoy the modern America's Cup. You're missing out on something incredible.

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13 hours ago, Sisu3360 said:

As for me, the Cup since 2007 has lost me. I no longer feel like I'm watching the same sport that I play. Simple as that.

For me, it's the other way round. I've match-raced small keelboats, so I can understand what's happening before the start, or when Luna Rossa takes TNZ beyond the downwind layline. I've sailed skiffs, so I understand what it's like to bear away in conditions where it may be nearly impossible to sail the boat on a beam reach. I've team-raced skiffs (not very well), so I have a feel for what it's like when the disciplines come together. Something I've spent very little time doing is plugging up and down windward-leeward courses in big, heavy, loaded-up boats that go much the same speed on any point of sail, and rather more slowly than I'd be going in a Wednesday evening race after work. I just don't find it that exciting. I can hoist/drop/gybe/peel spinnakers, but I honestly don't find it that interesting, it's just boat handling; you practice it, then you go out and do it in races. I can relate to AC75 racing in a way that I could never relate to the leadmines.

The AC75s have only completed one regatta, but I've already spent more time watching AC75 than I ever did watching IACC boats. We all like different things, but to me the leadmine racing was sufficiently boring that for entire cup cycles I didn't even look online to see what had happened, I just waited for the writeups in Seahorse.

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16 hours ago, Groucho Marx said:

Always this quasi-religious reference to the boring !2 metres; the 12s, in reality of the time period, were complete and utter pigs/dogs/turkeys - and they were NOT the apotheosis  of yacht design of the period.  In that semi-outlaw/outrageous country of radical yacht design and development, you know the one I'm referring to, where the oinker 12s were blindly considered the peak of race yacht development, there had already been, for a number of years, truly advanced, lightweight and outrageously fast sailing designs from Farr, Whiting, Davidson and Young. And dare I mention the other outlaws of the time, the multihulls.

 

And this same country was dead against building them out of fibre glass, right? :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Dave S said:

I've already spent more time watching AC75 than I ever did watching IACC boats. We all like different things, but to me the leadmine racing was sufficiently boring that for entire cup cycles I didn't even look online to see what had happened, I just waited for the writeups in Seahorse.

Yeah, it's been the opposite for me. 2000 was my first Cup (I was 11 at the time) and I was enamored. We taped all of the ESPN LVC coverage (broadcast at midnight) and I was hooked watching the AmericaOne vs Prada slugfest ("PROPER COURSE!!!"). In 2007 I listened to the live radio coverage of the LVC because that's all I had access to for livestreaming. Now I'm watching the highlights after the fact. I've been spending more time lately watching replays of match racing at the 2012 Olympics. My first match racing regatta is this summer, and that interest in the Cup growing up definitely got me into the discipline.

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Here's a request- put a damn muffler on that traveler!  I wanted Luna Rossa to win largely because sailing should involve being able to hear the wind and waves.  I tried to show a race to the wife and that lasted about 3 seconds.  One blast of traveler and that was over and done.  

One more thought- do we actually need chase boats running along behind at all times?  Is there no way to keep the powerboats on the side of the course at intervals?  At least it would give the impression burning a little less fuel for a sailboat race.  Obviously safety issues to consider, but it would be nice to find a different solution.

Other than that, the boats are awesome.  Truly next level stuff, and the first time I've ever wanted to watch an AC.

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9 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

OK. Let's call it momentum, then. The AC has accelerated foiling momentum. At least that is what I'm seeing.

Presumably will do the same for these funky dual skin sails.

 

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4 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

When people cry for the good 'ol days, these two regattas are the only things they are referring to.  And like you highlighted, in 1983 there were extended periods where no maneuvers, no sail changes were happening.  Fuck, even the start of race 7 was boring...no engagement and Australia was 8 seconds late.  

Au contraire.

92, 95, 00, 07 were crackers too.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Au contraire.

92, 95, 00, 07 were crackers too.

Ha!  Have you seen the deltas of those finishes?  In '95 I got in trouble in the dorm common area because the races were so fucking long.  I could never finish watching a race because there was a 2 hour limit to hogging the TV.  And even by that time, my non-sailing friends had lost interest.  In 2000, the exciting part was the LV finals.  The AC regatta was a snoozer by the definition of "exciting" racing according to the complainers here.   

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2 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Ha!  Have you seen the deltas of those finishes?  In '95 I got in trouble in the dorm common area because the races were so fucking long.  I could never finish watching a race because there was a 2 hour limit to hogging the TV.  And even by that time, my non-sailing friends had lost interest.

No argument that courses were WAY too long in years past. If you look at top-level match racing they have 15-20 minute legs, which is about right. You're right that 95 was a boring cycle overall, the defender series shenanigans notwithstanding. 

12 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

In 2000, the exciting part was the LV finals.

A snoozer of a Cup Match doesn't diminish a competitive challenger series. "The Catch," "The Drive," and the "Ice Bowl" overshadow the Super Bowls that followed them. The lopsided nature of the AC being a challenge cup means that the Match itself is always at risk of being a snoozer.

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21 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Ha!  Have you seen the deltas of those finishes?  In '95 I got in trouble in the dorm common area because the races were so fucking long.  I could never finish watching a race because there was a 2 hour limit to hogging the TV.  And even by that time, my non-sailing friends had lost interest.  In 2000, the exciting part was the LV finals.  The AC regatta was a snoozer by the definition of "exciting" racing according to the complainers here.   

I am referring to the whole thing including LVC and the 95 and 00 version had some real ding dong battles.

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6 hours ago, 45Roller said:

And this same country was dead against building them out of fibre glass, right? :rolleyes:

Am I missing your subtle innuendo; thought I made it overly obvious I was referring to NZ. Where the first glass 12 metre (Kiwi Magic) was built - when the 12s were all alloy - and the glass Kiwi was considered a grossly unfair cheat. Remember Conner's whinging?

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On 3/17/2021 at 6:28 PM, Editor said:

 

Macintosh SSD:Users:davidsalter:Desktop:Race 6 1983.jpg

 

So that’s that for another three years. New Zealand retains the America’s Cup 7-3. Yet apart from the excruciating – and ultimately unfair – Race 8, and the desperately lucky (for NZ) Race 9, the contest tended towards the monotonous, predictable, even anticlimactic. The faster boat won, as it always has since 1970.

(“Unfair” because the Kiwi splashdown was a clear error of commission – they gybed into the backwind of the Italians while Luna Rossa came off their foils later in that race only because the breeze had momentarily disappeared. And “lucky” in  Race 9 because textbook tactics from the Italians handed the Kiwis an undeserved winning 20% lift.)

The short, narrow courses with boundaries designed for television limited tactical options. There was no room to take a “flyer” or hang on to a favorable shift. Meanwhile, the Hauraki Gulf failed to deliver the expected stiff breezes, so the boats rarely hit anything approaching their maximum speeds.  

For the most part, watching eight of these ten races provided little more than a quick sugar hit. There were, at best, 90 seconds of genuine excitement in the pre-start, a few minutes of mild anticipation to confirm that the boat that won the start would lead at the first mark, then a five-leg procession in which there were no passes and the only real interest was to check the gap and compare VMGs and boat speeds.  

Perhaps realizing that these wham-bang-thank-you-m’am encounters lacked real drama the commentators and pundits pumped up the hype and rushed to declare the ‘return of match racing’ in Auckland, or speculate about hypothetical ‘passing lanes’. Both were in regrettably short supply. 

Back when AC boats kept their hulls in the water the pre-start dogfights could last up to ten minutes and made riveting viewing. Hitting the line on ‘zero’ was largely irrelevant. It was tough, aggressive, hand-to-hand combat. Circling, luffing, false tacks, bearing away – they used tactical flair, sheer sailing skill and every trick in the rule-book to gain an advantage.

Comparisons can be odious, but there are many other factors from the history of the America’s Cup that, considered against the series just concluded, might help explain why the AC36 racing at times seemed so alien to the fundamentals of the event.

Let’s take the 1983 challenge, Australia II v Liberty, as our base line. It was the last to be sailed at Newport and the second-last to be sailed in 12 metres. Here are a few ‘then and now’ comparisons:

*  In 1983 the 12 metres displaced around 23 tons and sailed at 8 knots. The boats were almost always in dueling contact. The foiling monomarans in Auckland weighed around 7.5 tons and could do 50 knots. Those high speeds multiply differences, so a small lead blew out to 500 metres or more very quickly. 

*  The course in Newport was 24.3 miles, including a triangle. Every point of sailing was tested, as was the stamina and concentration of the crews. The courses in Auckland were windward/leeward only, and around 10 miles in length. It was impossible, at a glance, to tell whether the AC75s were sailing uphill or downhill.

*  The average elapsed time in Newport was roughly 4 hours, with a time limit of 5 hours and 15 minutes. Mistakes could be corrected, gear failures overcome. The races in Auckland took between 25 and 40 minutes to complete – one eighth of the time. Losing the start, even by a few seconds, was usually fatal.

More significant than those stark physical contrasts are the different styles of racing. 

Until the carbon multihulls took over the Cup, all boats sailed with poled spinnakers. This added a significant tactical dimension and put a premium on crew work. One botched gybe could cost a race; a perfect delayed drop and mark rounding might win one. Each maneuver was a crucial – and visible – test of teamwork and skill.

In Auckland, eight of the eleven crew in the AC75s spent their race below gunnel level, heads down, just grinding. They were proxy engines, and rarely, if ever, touched a line or control. Sail trim was a matter of inches. To television viewers it is was if the jib and main were kept sheeted on hard for the entire race. Helming was like steering a car.

The closeness in performance of the 12 metres encouraged epic boat-on-boat battles. It was not uncommon for them to throw 30 tacks at each other on a single upwind leg. Yet in the third race in 1983 Liberty and Australia II stayed on the same tack for 22 minutes, each daring the other to break away. Multiple lead changes and come-from-behind wins were not exceptional 30 years ago. The tension for spectators was exquisite.

This year, during one sequence of 14 Prada Cup races in Auckland, the lead never changed over the 84 legs sailed – except once, when the American Magic capsize let Luna Rossa through. Then, during the Cup itself, there were just two or three genuine passes in the 59 legs sailed. It was difficult to get excited by those repetitive processions. One small mistake and it was usually game over.

None of this is to say that the event in New Zealand wasn’t worth watching. It was the America’s Cup, after all, even if – bizarrely – the worst mistake a crew could make was to actually let their ‘boat’ touch the water.

Perhaps the most revealing aspect to emerge from the series, at least for me, was that sheer speed doesn’t matter. It’s the differential that counts. Close racing is just as engrossing at 5 knots as it is at 40. All those hundreds of millions of dollars spent developing foiling monomarans might have kept a lot of sailing folk in work but it delivered no real extra value to the event. Watching boats duel at 30 knots quickly became unremarkable. 

And if it showed us anything, this competition between two low-flying seaplanes demonstrated that the pinnacle of sailing now has virtually no practical connection with what most of us know as ‘yacht racing’. Nor is it likely to have popularized the sport. The general public, if they were aware of the event at all, would have been utterly bemused.

Let’s hope that the next America’s Cup is contested in boats.

- anarchist David

and that is the private opinion of some people involved in the higher levels of this cup that I have personally spoken with.....

Foiling is not sailing, and as soon as people stop confusing the two our sport will be better off. What foiling is though is a massive gravy train :) 

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On 3/18/2021 at 3:02 AM, Jean-Baptiste said:

A dozen Wallycentos @ 10-15m euro each, easily have a dozen teams, affordable and would be quite a spectacle.

Sorry but that's no cheaper than an AC75. The costs of the boats is not the problem, most of the cost is human cost. Accommodation, salaries and travel.

Besides One Design isn't the way of the America's Cup, neither is cheapness. It has always been a big boys game

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On 3/17/2021 at 12:30 PM, Vin said:

100% spot on. FWIW, we were warned about the disparity between the boats during this cycle as folks tried to find the fastest corner of the design envelope. That is what made some of this Cup cringeworthy. That said, race 9 (??) was one of the best match races ever in cup history. That was awesome. 

I am an "in the water" guy...but the Cup can only get better from here as the speeds get closer and the designs, boats, become more accessible. The event will need some tweaks but this format is here to stay.

 

Yes. Let us acknowledge how much closer the racing got as the boats were refined and the team skills got sharper.

After the ACWS in Deecember,   Ineos looked like a dog and ETNZ looked infinitely superior to LR.

Yet by the challenger series, Ineos was a finalist and dominated in the RR.  In the AC, LR took 3 races and led in 3 races that she ultimately lost.    It was closer than many other ACs and will get tighter still if they stick to these boats.

There is still a lot of development to come, and rather like Formula One, we may see technical superiority have an impact. Which team will be superior is hard to forecast.

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16 hours ago, jaysper said:

Presumably will do the same for these funky dual skin sails.

 

I'm yet to be convinced there is a mass of classes and owners who want to spend double on mainsails.

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14 hours ago, Caecilian said:

and that is the private opinion of some people involved in the higher levels of this cup that I have personally spoken with.....

Foiling is not sailing, and as soon as people stop confusing the two our sport will be better off. What foiling is though is a massive gravy train :) 

"Foiling is not sailing" is a vacuous statement. The AC75 is a sailboat that foils, the crew are (mostly) top class sailors, the principal figures in the teams are experienced sailors.

You, and the people you have spoken with, are entitled to your preference for displacement sailboats. If indeed these people are "involved in the higher levels of this cup" they clearly hold little influence as the next AC will once again be in AC75s.

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Its not sailing in the same sense that kite boards are not sailing, sure sailors can kite board and it has all the elements but it is not sailing in the traditional sense, it’s something else. A new branch of the sport that involves boats that fly. Is a seaplane a boat, no but it is a kind of temporary boat that primarily travels thousand of feet in the air. There is a proposed speed record project that involves a foil tethered to a capsule held aloft by a kite wing; Boat? Hardly but still, it involves water and a kind of sail. 

The point I am making is a positive one about reframing expectations with these craft, people tell me everyone wants to go foiling- not sailing with foils. It is.different branch of the sport and the AC 75’s are the most extreme example.

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3 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Yes. Let us acknowledge how much closer the racing got as the boats were refined and the team skills got sharper.

After the ACWS in Deecember,   Ineos looked like a dog and ETNZ looked infinitely superior to LR.

Yet by the challenger series, Ineos was a finalist and dominated in the RR.  In the AC, LR took 3 races and led in 3 races that she ultimately lost.    It was closer than many other ACs and will get tighter still if they stick to these boats.

There is still a lot of development to come, and rather like Formula One, we may see technical superiority have an impact. Which team will be superior is hard to forecast.

Will we see you in a Figaro 3 soon? :)

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I think a lot of the " it's not sailing" is correlated with "can't see sailors doing anything as they manipulate their controls and can't see details of trim, etc on camera"

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20 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

I think a lot of the " it's not sailing" is correlated with "can't see sailors doing anything as they manipulate their controls and can't see details of trim, etc on camera"

I rewatched the last race from 2007 the other night. I can't remember if I actually watched the race when it happened. But I was struck by (1) the number of crew on a boat -- those things were packed full of people; and (2) the number of crew that were doing absolutely nothing on the upwind leg but lying on their backs chatting with each other.  

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Ok Ed, you make some good points but, the AC has changed from private funding to a corporate marketing machine. This ruins everything it touches. People, the planet and quality of life would all be better without the insatiable greed of corporations. 

The greedy wealthy don't care for your 12 year old sailing an opti. They just want your cash. 

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Once you get past the truly amazing tech and the tension of the cup challenge its nowhere near as as interesting from a match racing perspective as say the concup. Sure it is interesting and it is a spectacle but you cant really compare it to the 12m era which to a sailing aficionado is like a 5 day cricket match vs T-20. When the commentators have to state that it’s a match race as if they are trying to connect the trad meaning to the foiling iteration, you know that its just not the same. People keep stating the most inane and obvious; the faster boat wins the cup... duh! Since when did a slow boat win any series unless helped by incredible luck and a crew that was absolutely next level. The other thing people say is that the AC is a technology competition as if thats only what its about,  thats also bullshit, the 12’s were by no means the fastest boats, of course within the rules they were pushed to the limit but thats also totally obvious.

Personally I am not big fan of the boats and I know a few people on a couple of the teams so I got a teeny bit of first hand a picture (no one says much, its pretty tight!) and I fully support them. I really enjoyed the competition in the same way i can get into a lot of sports without being a fan but once you get over the speed and the tension, there isn’t much in the way of nuances that I can relate too as a guy pushing water. So I’m underwhelmed.

Hey, I am an outlier- all my mates think its the best thing ever plenty of non sailing kiwis love it but I’m sure they would love it just as much if the cup was fought in a monster truck stadium, in that case I’m putting my money on Gravedigger

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21 hours ago, Groucho Marx said:

Am I missing your subtle innuendo; thought I made it overly obvious I was referring to NZ. Where the first glass 12 metre (Kiwi Magic) was built - when the 12s were all alloy - and the glass Kiwi was considered a grossly unfair cheat. Remember Conner's whinging?

Mr Conner: "Seventy-eight 12-metres have all been built of aluminium. So if you wanted to build a glass boat then why would you do it? Unless you wanted to cheat,"

 

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7 minutes ago, Caecilian said:

he had a bit of a point, depends how you define cheating, in one sense he was right- cheating tradition by using technology! 

Well... The actual allegation was that they'd built a glass boat specifically so that they could vary the hull thickness (which was against class rules) and make the boat lighter in the ends. That wasn't how it came across in the press conference though, and the detailed argument (which I think had already been refuted by then) was lost in the general acrimony. Core samples were taken and the boat pronounced legal, but Dennis still wasn't happy.

The off-the-water confrontation in those days was entertaining, but I don't miss it; the mutual respect we see now creates a much nicer atmosphere, and sets a much better example for the kids. 

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21 minutes ago, Caecilian said:

he had a bit of a point, depends how you define cheating, in one sense he was right- cheating tradition by using technology! 

Nope. It wasn't specifically excluded in the class rule same as the winged keel.

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31 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Nope. It wasn't specifically excluded in the class rule same as the winged keel.

I know what youre saying and it wasnt cheating,  The Dirty Dennis persona was just making a meal out of it

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4 hours ago, Salty Seacock said:

Ok Ed, you make some good points but, the AC has changed from private funding to a corporate marketing machine. This ruins everything it touches. People, the planet and quality of life would all be better without the insatiable greed of corporations. 

The greedy wealthy don't care for your 12 year old sailing an opti. They just want your cash. 

Smartest thing I have ever read on Sailing Anarchy.....

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1 hour ago, Caecilian said:

he had a bit of a point, depends how you define cheating, in one sense he was right- cheating tradition by using technology! 

No more cheating than Te Rehutai's lowered deck mainsail enlargement. On the other hand, Luna Rossa's 'no backstays' was outside the Rule.

Yacht design history is littered with other 'rule-cheating' but legal innovations.

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On 3/18/2021 at 9:56 AM, OW3 said:

Also boats that can wipe out without ruining your whole campaign and pissing millions up the wall for nothing.

Have you actually watched the America's Cup before? American Magic is definitely not the first yacht to sucumb to the elements! Nor the most spectacular at doing so.

The IACC's were so heavy and wound up so darn tight the rig could snap the boat in half!

Hell they even got AM back up and running (sorta).

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

No more cheating than Te Rehutai's lowered deck mainsail enlargement. On the other hand, Luna Rossa's 'no backstays' was outside the Rule.

Yacht design history is littered with other 'rule-cheating' but legal innovations.

Spot on sbd!

If the measurement committee sights it and deems it compliant with the rules then it ain't cheating.

In 83 when the Ozzies turned up in NY Oz II had already been measured and deemed compliant.

Didn't stop DC from being a cunt though.

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14 minutes ago, Boybland said:

Have you actually watched the America's Cup before? American Magic is definitely not the first yacht to sucumb to the elements! Nor the most spectacular at doing so.

The IACC's were so heavy and wound up so darn tight the rig could snap the boat in half!

Hell they even got AM back up and running (sorta).

Indeed, Oz challenge in San Diego being the most spectacular and catastrophic.

I miss the IACCs but they certainly weren't a risk free investment.

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29 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Indeed, Oz challenge in San Diego being the most spectacular and catastrophic.

I miss the IACCs but they certainly weren't a risk free investment.

true but at least they didnt have to be followed at all times by a chase boat with two kitted up divers in it.  Andrew Simpson did not need to die

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5 minutes ago, Caecilian said:

true but at least they didnt have to be followed at all times by a chase boat with two kitted up divers in it.  Andrew Simpson did not need to die

So I'm on record as disliking both sorts of foiler.

However, two points:

1. Big Red was an appalling and seemingly inherently dangerous design.

2. Oz 35 could have just as easily entangled one of the ockers in it's rigging on the way down.

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The competing yachts or vessels, if of one mast, shall be not less than forty-four feet nor more than ninety feet on the load water-line; if of more than one mast they shall be not less than eighty feet nor more than one hundred and fifteen feet on the load water-line.

Heres a bit of a segway, what do you think the LWL is for a foiler; I'm thinking about 18" :) 

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13 minutes ago, jaysper said:

So I'm on record as disliking both sorts of foiler.

However, two points:

1. Big Red was an appalling and seemingly inherently dangerous design.

2. Oz 35 could have just as easily entangled one of the ockers in it's rigging on the way down.

Didn’t the Spanish boat in 95 or 00 have a fatality?

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I don’t have a problem with the boats I think they are awesome what I found boring was the exclusive use of windward leeward courses, why not chuck in some around the buoys and a passage race. 

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As with the other days racing inAC36 I provided a 'Days report' to the Editor for Day 7 (Race 10). He decided to go with ANarchist David's piece of (insert your own description)

For those who are interested here it is. I know the editor received it as the piece on the front page is a direct cut & paste of the part about the new CoR even down to the error that Aaron Young is the RNZYS Commodore, not the RYS Commodore as I wrote- ha ha.

You can like it, down vote it or just ignore it, frankly I don't give a f*** anymore

I have a lot of respect for the America's Cup, perhaps from spending time with my writing mentor Bob Fisher and have no time for those who belittle one of the pinnacles of our sport

So I'm done - at least for a while.

Have at it!

THE FINAL COUNTDOWN

 

Today was always going to be all on. The weight of a nation hoping and expecting Burling and his team to seal the deal while Luna Rossa needed to win ever one of the remaining races to upset the apple cart.

And if anyone was in any doubt as to the interest, there were an estimated 3,000 boats on the water and no free space at all in the race village,

The first 3 days saw honours shared but bit by bit the Kiwis seemed to be knocking the rust off their 3 raceless months. Day 4 meant they put in the wedge winning both races compounding that with a win in the best race of The Cup so far.

Sailing a fast boat a) makes you look good and b) certainly helps the confidence as well.

One area where criticism has been aimed at Te Rehutai was the start box but in Race 10 where the chips were certainly down they absolutely nailed it, and did so cleverly.

In what looked like a planned move the NZL boat hung back just a little rather than fighting for the ‘committee boat’ end placing them slightly behind LRPP but preventing them tacking to the favoured right hand side, and over ETNZ went, Burling was clearly on fire.

It was clear from the pre-start where Burling fooled everyone with, when Burling went into a tack in the pre-start even Nathan saying ‘ Jimmy Spithill will try to shut them out’ with Ken Read ‘he’s in an interesting spot here’ but Burling was weaving, burning off position, he clearly didn’t want to mix it and with the half the start line to play with and sitting on LRPP’s hip it was ETNZ which was free to tack away early onto the right hand side of the course. When he needed to Burling nailed it.

Both boats went to the boundary LRPP to th left and ETNZ to the right with an initial lead showing to the Kiwis and at the first cross tacked on top of the Italians forcing them back to the left.

Half way up Leg 1 the lead moved t the Italians (Lead Change 1) but as they met again Luna Rossa had to dip the Kiwis (Lead Change 2) crossing at around 30 kts. Lead at Mark 1 was around 100m or 7 seconds.

Down leg 2 the NZL lead went up to over 200m but was on a bungee cord and for once Te Rehutai didn’t just sail off into the sunset.

At the first bottom mark both teams didn’t have their best rounding. Up the second beat though the Kiwis started to extend  to over 300m and it was already looking like it would take a mistake by the them for them to lose the race. Quite the opposite they tacked right on the wind of the Italians giving them bad air. The loose cover was effective and ETNZ hit the half way point of the race 27 seconds to the good.

Down the second ‘run’ the New Zealand lead at times surpassed 600m and it was already starting to look like an impossible task for Spithill, Bruni et al.

Up the final beat the lead rarely dropped much below 500m leading to a mark rounding 49 seconds up. If it wasn’t all over before the baring a major gear failure it was now. So it proved to be with Emirates Team New Zealand crossing the finish line 46 seconds ahead. This was a race where the Kiwis knew what they wanted from the start and at the start and basically controlled the whole race from the get go. I had to chuckle with Steve McIvor’s comment as they crossed the line that the team had ”proved that Kiwis can fly” (the Kiwi is a New Zealand flightless bird BTW). He maybe doesn’t know a great deal about yacht racing but he has had some pearlers of one-liners.

The reception for the team, in effect, started on the tow back with waves and shouts from the returning spectator fleet as Te Ruhutai was towed back towards Viaduct Harbour and received rapturous applause as they entered the basin.

Interviews ensued as the team soaked up the atmosphere. Meanwhile on the feed’s ‘Top Chat’ some were impatient for the presentation. These guys have worked for almost 4 years for this moment – let them enjoy it I say.

I loved the tradition of the Maori Chiefs welcoming ETNZ across the bridge and shows how natives and incomers can show respect to each other. Sorry if that sounds almost touching on the political but it had to be said because it was there.

Another little piece of ‘tradition’ was the MC for the trophy presentation was the ‘Voice of the America’s Cup’ Peter Montgomery who shared that duty with Bruno Trouble who put together the original Challenger Series way back in the ‘80’s.

Luna Rossa’s Max Serena was gracious when his team were announced on stage but the real wildness from the crowd started when the NZL sailing team took to the stage, then the whole team, everyone involved in any way with the defence.

That Cup is going to need a lot of washing and polishing after all that champagne and handling – but who would dare begrudge them their glory.. What a waste of good champagne though.

SO where from here.

We have it on very good authority that subject to the required paperwork being completed that the Royal Yacht Squadron Commodore Aaron Young was not just there for the party and that the new Challenger of Record will indeed be GBR’s Royal Yacht Squadron.

Yes, for once the rumours and scuttlebutt were true and the next Cup will be Squadron against Squadron and of course anyone else who wants to join in.

A fitting day’s racing to cap off a first class event.

'Stay well guys, i might pop into the forums from time to time.

or - See ya on the Water

Shanghai Sailor - I'm Out

 

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On 3/20/2021 at 5:34 AM, NeedAClew said:

I think a lot of the " it's not sailing" is correlated with "can't see sailors doing anything as they manipulate their controls and can't see details of trim, etc on camera"

What, cant see the human oil pumps?

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14 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

I'm Out

Selfishly I'm sorry to hear that but if its the right thing to do for you, do it. But not just because editor plays silly buggers, SA really isn't about him. 

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7 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Selfishly I'm sorry to hear that but if its the right thing to do for you, do it. But not just because editor plays silly buggers, SA really isn't about him. 

It's especially not about him. He is quite the dick.

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16 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

What is the conflict about? The Ed has not published an article on the FP? Has he had the obligation? 

Simple really

"I'm putting it up today" - 

Still waiting - no worries, a bit of pique perhaps on my part, articles don't just 'happen' and thought people should see it - for good or bad.

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On 3/21/2021 at 3:07 AM, shanghaisailor said:

For those who are interested here it is. I know the editor received it as the piece on the front page is a direct cut & paste of the part about the new CoR even down to the error that Aaron Young is the RNZYS Commodore, not the RYS Commodore as I wrote- ha ha.

You can like it, down vote it or just ignore it, frankly I don't give a f*** anymore

I Shanghai Sailor - I'm Out

 

Good piece SS,

the only correction I would add is that Burlings pre-start was actually better than you have said.

When they are both coming back to the line on Stb, LRPP has the opportunity to shut out ETNZ at the boat end, but ETNZ give a fake attempt at a hook which forces LRPP to bear away, thus guaranteeing ETNZ the space between LRPP and the committee boat to sit on LRPPs hip.

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3 hours ago, Chapter Four said:

Good piece SS,

the only correction I would add is that Burlings pre-start was actually better than you have said.

When they are both coming back to the line on Stb, LRPP has the opportunity to shut out ETNZ at the boat end, but ETNZ give a fake attempt at a hook which forces LRPP to bear away, thus guaranteeing ETNZ the space between LRPP and the committee boat to sit on LRPPs hip.

You are right Chapter Four, I did miss that piece out. PB completely sold a dummy to LRPP which is perhaps why they went so far down the start line. If was an incredibly good piece of match racing pre-start and with it being such high profile I would not be surprised to see some of the lower echelon match racers trying to add that to their repertoire.

I doubt id i will ever tire of watching it as it was a match racing masterclass.

BTW - I managed to stay 'out' for a long time didn't I.

GOd ya gotta love this sport 

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7 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Simple really

"I'm putting it up today" - 

Still waiting - no worries, a bit of pique perhaps on my part, articles don't just 'happen' and thought people should see it - for good or bad.

Thanks for the reply and thanks for letting us read the piece. 

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13 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Simple really

"I'm putting it up today" - 

Still waiting - no worries, a bit of pique perhaps on my part, articles don't just 'happen' and thought people should see it - for good or bad.

Shanghai Sailor,

Your enthusiasm for the Cup event puts you in a very small global minority. Perhaps that's why the Ed chose the other more sceptical and objective post that reflects that reality?

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On 3/17/2021 at 12:41 PM, The Advocate said:

I think I saw 25 000 people on YT watching the final.

Technology going forward, mainstream interest has left the building.

See we can agree....

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9 hours ago, Guvacine said:

Shanghai Sailor,

Your enthusiasm for the Cup event puts you in a very small global minority. Perhaps that's why the Ed chose the other more sceptical and objective post that reflects that reality?

Really? The editor has had a strange downer on what the world (both sailing and non sailing) considers to be (at least) one of the pinnacles of the sailing world.

The phenomenon of thousands of spectators turning up to match a America's Cup race is not a new or uniquely New Zealand happening. Thousands used to turn up just to watch the launching of some of Lipton's or Sopwith's challengers.

An America's Cup challenge has never been a cheap affair. Even the initial challenge for the One Hundred Pound Cup took the financial efforts of not one but six members of the New York Yacht Club.

One of Sopwith's life long, virtual death bed, regrets was he didn't pay the salary requests of the Brightlingsea fisherman and instead crewed Endeavour (2 i think) with keen amateurs - it is widely regarded she had the makings of a winner.

Factor in inflation and I think you will find the raw costs of a challenge yacht in a AC75 differs little from a Big Boat or a J-Class yacht.

Note I say costs of the yacht. The cost of transport of the yacht from country of build to country of the regatta hasn't, in real terms changed much. In fact with global transport may been have reduced.

What has grown perhaps are the salary costs of 100+ people over a 3 year time span to produce a yacht that, in the present cup, 3 times out of 4 was not fast enough. If anything would reduce costs it would be team size. I was have to admit i was staggered how many ETNZ team members poured onto the stage at eh AC36 prize giving - and most of them were living at home. 

Whenever billionaires are involved in any activity we mere financial mortals can only stand and watch and to put thins into perspective, even the likes of Bezos & Musk would be second division compared to Morgan, Rockerfeller and Vanderbuilt whose combined, inflation adjusted, wealth, by many estimates, topped $1Tr   

I make no apology for my enthusiasm which was only heightened by my friendship with The Fish who had a lifelong passion for (and a knowledge second to none) of the attempts to wrest the America's Cup along with a journalistic ability second to none.

Saying the America's Cup is to expensive is no different from complaining the Ritz charges $X hundred a night for a suite or certain restaurants wont let you dine without a jacket and tie. Their game, their rules. In this case George Schuyler's rules. He gave The Cup (deeded it) to NYYC with certain specific rules enshrined in the Deed of Gift. If people don't like the rules - don't play. Don't like what you are seeing - don't watch.

From a personal standpoint i would love if the America's Cup was 'more affordable'. I was Commodore of our club when we issued a challenge in AC32. Sadly, although we had the entry fee, the late entry fee and the performance bond we decided we should withdraw at the 11th hour as we couldn't guarantee the funding to guarantee to do justice to our club, the syndicate and most importantly The Cup itself. It was a painful decision but even all these years later still feel it was the correct one.   

Regarding number of entries? It should be remembered that on only 3 occasions have you had to take your socks off to count the number of entries and although it is often quoted there were multiple entries as far back as 1970, on both that occasion and the following challenge in 1973 the multiple entries amounted to 2 boats. In fact France did it on the cheap and entered the same boat in 1970 & 1973 and it was only 1983 where the fingers of more than one hand were needed.  

Bottom line is whether we like it or think it is rubbish or not, we are only observers, we don't make the rules.

We are all entitled to an opinion one way or another BUT in terms of being in the "very small global minority" I refer only to the Sailing Anarchy forums where the total posts in Cruising Anarchy = 450k; total posts in Dinghy, Sport Boat & Multihull Anarchy = 568k while the total posts in America's Cup Anarchy = 638.9k with the views per post in America's Cup Anarchy dramatically higher than the other 4 forums.

On Sailing Anarchy ( a site I love by the way) America's Cup interest most certainly doesn't appear to be a "very small global minority" amongst the readers.

BUT - we are all entitled to our opinion - here anyway.

See ya on the water.

SS

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On 3/22/2021 at 7:27 PM, shanghaisailor said:

We are all entitled to an opinion one way or another BUT in terms of being in the "very small global minority" I refer only to the Sailing Anarchy forums where the total posts in Cruising Anarchy = 450k; total posts in Dinghy, Sport Boat & Multihull Anarchy = 568k while the total posts in America's Cup Anarchy = 638.9k with the views per post in America's Cup Anarchy dramatically higher than the other 4 forums.

It would be interesting to see what the actual number of worthwhile AC forum posts would be if you removed the endless number of "I'm right you're wrong, your team sucks, ______ is a ____, foiling sucks, landmines rule, blah.. blah.. blah" back and forth opinionated PA like BS from almost every AC thread.  And for # of views - everyone likes watching fights and train wrecks.  Definitely more minutes of entertainment reading the BS on SA than actual on the water AC racing.

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7 hours ago, yoyo said:

It would be interesting to see what the actual number of worthwhile AC forum posts would be if you removed the endless number of "I'm right you're wrong, your team sucks, ______ is a ____, foiling sucks, landmines rule, blah.. blah.. blah" back and forth opinionated PA like BS from almost every AC thread.  And for # of views - everyone likes watching fights and train wrecks.  Definitely more minutes of entertainment reading the BS on SA than actual on the water AC racing.

I actually have more interesting things to do with my life than check out each and every post or try to guess what the 'voyeurs' motivation might be and your comment is rather like one more conspiracy theory. And how would you be able to claim/prove that the other forums don't have a similar ratio of endless number of "I'm right you're wrong" type views.

And your statement doesn't change the number of posts one iota - those are hard, electronically registered, non-biased, unemotional numbers. 

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On 3/20/2021 at 8:25 AM, Caecilian said:

Heres a bit of a segway, what do you think the LWL is for a foiler; I'm thinking about 18" :) 

Made me smile - good point but load water line is measured with a vessel at rest, not when under way.

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