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The AC 37 has started, news and rumours


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I’m not calling this out for the sake of ostracizing you, nor to play PC police on a forum that is notorious for the opposite of that. I could just hit ignore, delete or whatever. I’m calling this out

Hilarious to watch Kiwis who've been around since AC35 twist themselves into intellectual pretzels to give ETNZ a pass on what they screamed bloody murder about when Oracle did it. Even Oracle di

The hypocrisy extends back to AC32 but I get your point.  The claim that the Kiwi’s care about sportsmanship and fairness was exposed as BS long ago.  WetHog  

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I'm not sure about Ineos,  but Prada and Luna Rossa will be there :D

Max Sirena, in an interview,  confirmed Bertelli interest in continuing.

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44 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I'm not sure about Ineos,  but Prada and Luna Rossa will be there :D

Max Sirena, in an interview,  confirmed Bertelli interest in continuing.

The RYS is going to be COR

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Rumor ... Luna Rossa Has the Fastest boat and if the wind dies they WIN

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54 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I'm not sure about Ineos,  but Prada and Luna Rossa will be there :D

Max Sirena, in an interview,  confirmed Bertelli interest in continuing.

Got to give Bertelli credit, he’s a tough competitor who doesn’t give in easily. 

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1 minute ago, kenergy said:

I heard strider470 was coming to NZ to watch the next defence. 

I hope so. And covid will be only bad memories

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Could it be 12 000 $ so I could join too?

 

I hope that if there will be budget cap it will be high, after all these boats should be "best there is".

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2 hours ago, strider470 said:

I'm not sure about Ineos,  but Prada and Luna Rossa will be there :D

Max Sirena, in an interview,  confirmed Bertelli interest in continuing.

Where have you been? The Poms are the new challenger of record.! LOL :D

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9 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Where have you been? The Poms are the new challenger of record.! LOL :D

Sorry I forgot to specify it was a joke ;)

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Looks like the NZ Horrid is reporting a challenge has been made and accepted. So I wonder if Max knew more than he was letting on in the presser 

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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-team-new-zealand-mulling-unprecedented-option-for-next-americas-cup/RQQMUDZR7YQTDJMUN3C4JE4JLA/?fbclid=IwAR0NUWi_J9z0IezSzw0SLSGJyEv_C6X4XVU3ukXTGn0bIjwH7ysvMlS4H1E

 

If the part about a Cowes AC match between the kiwis and Ineos next year is true, a lot of people will be grumpy, and Ben and Ratcliffe will loose a lot of whatever respect is left for them in the sailing world.

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8 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-team-new-zealand-mulling-unprecedented-option-for-next-americas-cup/RQQMUDZR7YQTDJMUN3C4JE4JLA/?fbclid=IwAR0NUWi_J9z0IezSzw0SLSGJyEv_C6X4XVU3ukXTGn0bIjwH7ysvMlS4H1E

 

If the part about a Cowes AC match between the kiwis and Ineos next year is true, a lot of people will be grumpy, and Ben and Ratcliffe will loose a lot of whatever respect if left for them in the sailing world.

 

Much as I'd love to see AC75s racing in the Solent, I wouldn't want it to happen like that. Even as a Team UK fan, that would be a really shitty move - let's hope it's just a rumour.  

Now, an ACWS event next year would be fantastic!

Then of course we can look forward to Team UK defending on the Solent in 2029 :rolleyes: (Living in hope...)

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

Where have you been? The Poms are the new challenger of record.! LOL :D

I heard that the SAACYC made the first legit challenge?

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21 minutes ago, jimmyuk81 said:

 

Much as I'd love to see AC75s racing in the Solent, I wouldn't want it to happen like that. Even as a Team UK fan, that would be a really shitty move - let's hope it's just a rumour.  

Now, an ACWS event next year would be fantastic!

Then of course we can look forward to Team UK defending on the Solent in 2029 :rolleyes: (Living in hope...)

I think a lot depends on the NZ Government willingness to fund another Defence. Auckland has been given 90 Days or 3 months to come up with something. That Plan will then be weighted against potential overseas bids including Portsmouth apparently and Dalton will take the better Deal.

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POSSIBLE BULLSHIT AHEAD, so don't blame me later.
**** NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, JUST SPECULATION ****

To have your opinion on the matter

Ok, beware, this is fiction, not a rumour. but what if:

UK and NZ decide for a Match very soon, let's say in 1 year, in 2022, in these very boats with minor updates to version 1.5.

Not really a DoG match, but simply one not contemplating a Challenger series in the new mutual agreed protocol. Maybe to be held in UK, if the right bid for the venue is made from Ratcliffe.

In this way, GD can maintain his assets in ETNZ (design and sailing team) and the development of the boat is already there. NZ gains a ton of money from Ratcliffe for this chance and they both plan a subsequent normal AC in NZ (or the UK) 2 years later, in 2024, to maintain the usual scheduling for other subsequent challengers.

In this way, both NZ and the UK will be there with 2.0 boats and an edge compared to other challengers, and GD would have no problems with funding.

 

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3 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

One cup, two girls.

...an industrial sized bucket of Swarfega and a Swedish Corgi named Roy...

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Next cup to be sailed in AC75s going backwards.

Since Te rehutai can foil at 75 knots in reverse  we will sweep the match 7-0!

Forza New Zealand!

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1 minute ago, strider470 said:

POSSIBLE BULLSHIT AHEAD, so don't blame me later.
**** NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, JUST SPECULATION ****

To have your opinion on the matter

Ok, beware, this is fiction, not a rumour. but what if:

UK and NZ decide for a Match very soon, let's say in 1 year, in 2022, in these very boats with minor updates to version 1.5.

Not really a DoG match, but simply one not contemplating a Challenger series in the new mutual agreed protocol. Maybe to be held in UK, if the right bid for the venue is made from Ratcliffe.

In this way, GD can maintain his assets in ETNZ (design and sailing team) and the development of the boat is already there. NZ gains a ton of money from Ratcliffe for this chance and they both plan a subsequent normal AC in NZ (or the UK) 2 years later, in 2024, to maintain the usual scheduling for other subsequent challengers.

In this way, both NZ and the UK will be there with 2.0 boats and an edge compared to other challengers, and GD would have no problems with funding.

 

Oh NYSC here we come.....

They can go play boats where ever/whenever they like, just cant be linked to AC when it only the 2 of them and the other stakeholders and or potential stakeholders aren't invited, as per a "world championship".

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1 minute ago, The Advocate said:

Oh NYSC here we come.....

They can go play boats where ever/whenever they like, just cant be linked to AC when it only the 2 of them and the other stakeholders and or potential stakeholders aren't invited, as per a "world championship".

Why not? Having a Challengers selection is not required by the Deed, and as long as RYS challenge is valid, I think it could be a possible scenario.

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1 minute ago, jaysper said:

have you ever watched that? :blink:

My lawyer advised that the correct answer is "no".

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1 minute ago, strider470 said:

Why not? Having a Challengers selection is not required by the Deed, and as long as RYS challenge is valid, I think it could be a possible scenario.

Not under what you wrote mate. No way. Let me count the ways.....

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5 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Oh NYSC here we come.....

They can go play boats where ever/whenever they like, just cant be linked to AC when it only the 2 of them and the other stakeholders and or potential stakeholders aren't invited, as per a "world championship".

Is that so? And there was silly me thinking that a single challenger is precisely what the DoG envisages.

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1 minute ago, The Advocate said:

Read his whole post.

Obviously all the info for a subsequent AC would be unofficial.

What are the points that would be impossible? I'm asking to understand.

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10 minutes ago, Nutta said:

My lawyer advised that the correct answer is "no".

My GF advised "you better fucking not have".....which kinda implies she knows the contents......

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1 minute ago, dogwatch said:

Whose whole post?

@strider470the one I quoted.

POSSIBLE BULLSHIT AHEAD, so don't blame me later.
**** NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, JUST SPECULATION ****

To have your opinion on the matter

Ok, beware, this is fiction, not a rumour. but what if:

UK and NZ decide for a Match very soon, let's say in 1 year, in 2022, in these very boats with minor updates to version 1.5.

Not really a DoG match, but simply one not contemplating a Challenger series in the new mutual agreed protocol. Maybe to be held in UK, if the right bid for the venue is made from Ratcliffe.

In this way, GD can maintain his assets in ETNZ (design and sailing team) and the development of the boat is already there. NZ gains a ton of money from Ratcliffe for this chance and they both plan a subsequent normal AC in NZ (or the UK) 2 years later, in 2024, to maintain the usual scheduling for other subsequent challengers.

In this way, both NZ and the UK will be there with 2.0 boats and an edge compared to other challengers, and GD would have no problems with funding.

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10 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Oh NYSC here we come.....

They can go play boats where ever/whenever they like, just cant be linked to AC when it only the 2 of them and the other stakeholders and or potential stakeholders aren't invited, as per a "world championship".

You are wrong I think! @strider470is right!

The DoG does't require a Challenger Selection Series. Heck, we didn't even have a proper CSS until 1970!

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Just now, Horn Rock said:

My GF advised "you better fucking not have".....which kinda implies she knows the contents......

Any chance she was in it?

Asking for a friend......

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3 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Obviously all the info for a subsequent AC would be unofficial.

What are the points that would be impossible? I'm asking to understand.

This isn't impossible! Obviously all the Info on the subsequent AC would need to be kept under wraps!

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1 minute ago, dg_sailingfan said:

You are wrong I think! @strider470is right!

The DoG does't require a Challenger Selection Series. Heck, we didn't even have a proper CSS until 1970!

I am aware of that.

It also doesn't let you plan multiple Cups ahead.

 

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2 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Any chance she was in it?

Asking for a friend......

She was in the sequel...two cups and a slightly iffy prawn curry........

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1 minute ago, The Advocate said:

I am aware of that.

It also doesn't let you plan multiple Cups ahead.

 

Any Challenger would need to prove to the NYSC that multiple Cups being planned if things are kept away from the public. Very difficult to do.

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1 minute ago, The Advocate said:

It also doesn't let you plan multiple Cups ahead.

You can plan it. Your plan might just not work out. If ETNZ lost at Cowes, they've lost control. They might decide that's OK. I doubt it. A two-team "ACWS" seems a lot more likely than a two-team challenge/defence. Oracle and Team Origin actually did that in the Solent at one point.

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3 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

The collusion of planning multiple Cups ahead.

Of course you are right on that, it would have to be unofficial any future planning

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1 minute ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Any Challenger would need to prove to the NYSC that multiple Cups being planned if things are kept away from the public. Very difficult to do.

True. But can you imaging the shit fight? If ETNZ were to accept a challenge at the challengers venue, a lot of people would start asking a lot of questions....

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Just now, The Advocate said:

True. But can you imaging the shit fight? If ETNZ were to accept a challenge at the challengers venue, a lot of people would start asking a lot of questions....

Bertelli would be pissed of, and the rest of the world too.

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1 hour ago, SCARECROW said:

UK boat to be designed and built under the by Mercedes F1 special projects team

 

Maybe not such a good move for a GB challenge.

Red Bull F1 seem to be seriously on the ascendency so recruiting them might be a good idea?

Suit Jimmy-the-Spit, too ;)

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10 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

And it what way, specifically, do you think the DoG says anything to exclude strider470s modest proposal?

It's a fucking fear, more than a proposal ;)

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7 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

You can plan it. Your plan might just not work out. If ETNZ lost at Cowes, they've lost control. They might decide that's OK. I doubt it. A two-team "ACWS" seems a lot more likely than a two-team challenge/defence. Oracle and Team Origin actually did that in the Solent at one point.

Yes I agree with that. So what is the point of planing for a Cup to be back in NZ regardless of outcome? It is a naff supposition. See my point re WC, ACWS is the same thing. You are agreeing with me.

Edit, see, not She

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Just now, dg_sailingfan said:

Any Challenger would need to prove to the NYSC that multiple Cups being planned if things are kept away from the public. Very difficult to do.

I don't see why you couldn't be public about it. The 2024 cup wouldn't be "locked in" until after the 2022 cup, but you just need to follow the normal precautions to make sure that the "correct" team submits the first valid challenge, and there's not a lot anyone else can do about it.

I doubt it will happen, but I can't see any reason it wouldn't be possible.

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2 minutes ago, Dave S said:

I don't see why you couldn't be public about it. The 2024 cup wouldn't be "locked in" until after the 2022 cup, but you just need to follow the normal precautions to make sure that the "correct" team submits the first valid challenge, and there's not a lot anyone else can do about it.

I doubt it will happen, but I can't see any reason it wouldn't be possible.

DoG, thats the reason.

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Should GD and Ratcliffe chose such a road, it will be the beginning of a war that in comparison Bertarelli and Ellison have been good pals. :D

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5 minutes ago, Dave S said:

I don't see why you couldn't be public about it. The 2024 cup wouldn't be "locked in" until after the 2022 cup, but you just need to follow the normal precautions to make sure that the "correct" team submits the first valid challenge, and there's not a lot anyone else can do about it.

I doubt it will happen, but I can't see any reason it wouldn't be possible.

That is actually well explained!

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1 minute ago, strider470 said:

Should GD and Ratcliffe chose such a road, it will be the beginning of a war that in comparison Bertarelli and Ellison have been good pals. :D

Everybody needs to calm down! We don't know anything yet:D

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6 minutes ago, Dave S said:

I don't see why you couldn't be public about it. The 2024 cup wouldn't be "locked in" until after the 2022 cup, but you just need to follow the normal precautions to make sure that the "correct" team submits the first valid challenge, and there's not a lot anyone else can do about it.

I doubt it will happen, but I can't see any reason it wouldn't be possible.

I agree.  It's very similar to the Agreement that all the teams except NZ signed up to before Bermuda really.  Agreeing that the whoever wins the next cup will be in these boats and in this year.  

Not a fan of the 1-off, 1 challenger cup though.  On the off chance that Ineos managed to win it would sour the "first British challenge to win the cup" moment.  

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2 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Should GD and Ratcliffe chose such a road, it will be the beginning of a war that in comparison Bertarelli and Ellison have been good pals. :D

Keep in mind who is also rumored to be looking at coming back in and how he would see it and his experience with a pure DoG match.

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5 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Everybody needs to calm down! We don't know anything yet:D

Yes, it's only speculation of course. This lack of AC sailing will last only 3 years :)

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25 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

DoG, thats the reason.

Specifically:

Quote

And when a challenge from a Club fulfilling all the conditions required by this instrument has been received, no other challenge can be considered until the pending event has been decided.

 

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1 hour ago, strider470 said:

POSSIBLE BULLSHIT AHEAD, so don't blame me later.
**** NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, JUST SPECULATION ****

To have your opinion on the matter

Ok, beware, this is fiction, not a rumour. but what if:

UK and NZ decide for a Match very soon, let's say in 1 year, in 2022, in these very boats with minor updates to version 1.5.

Not really a DoG match, but simply one not contemplating a Challenger series in the new mutual agreed protocol. Maybe to be held in UK, if the right bid for the venue is made from Ratcliffe.

In this way, GD can maintain his assets in ETNZ (design and sailing team) and the development of the boat is already there. NZ gains a ton of money from Ratcliffe for this chance and they both plan a subsequent normal AC in NZ (or the UK) 2 years later, in 2024, to maintain the usual scheduling for other subsequent challengers.

In this way, both NZ and the UK will be there with 2.0 boats and an edge compared to other challengers, and GD would have no problems with funding.

 

Absolutely

Also in the event that Prada remove sponsorship of the challenger series it covers that off neatly.

GDs aim is to keep the team together end of story, IF the 1-1 event against INEOS is the best way to achieve that while giving stability to new syndicates to build towards a return to NZ in 2024 then it would be stupid to turn it down.

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13 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Absolutely

Also in the event that Prada remove sponsorship of the challenger series it covers that off neatly.

GDs aim is to keep the team together end of story, IF the 1-1 event against INEOS is the best way to achieve that while giving stability to new syndicates to build towards a return to NZ in 2024 then it would be stupid to turn it down.

I think they won't, because that would start a "war" and the AC would never be the same for years to come.

Now think only if Prada and Alinghi would have done such an agreement. :)

 

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2 hours ago, Bebmoumoute said:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-team-new-zealand-mulling-unprecedented-option-for-next-americas-cup/RQQMUDZR7YQTDJMUN3C4JE4JLA/?fbclid=IwAR0NUWi_J9z0IezSzw0SLSGJyEv_C6X4XVU3ukXTGn0bIjwH7ysvMlS4H1E

 

If the part about a Cowes AC match between the kiwis and Ineos next year is true, a lot of people will be grumpy, and Ben and Ratcliffe will loose a lot of whatever respect is left for them in the sailing world.

I see this as a low risk option for GD to get some $$$ in for AC38 in 2024

I also see it as a low risk option for JRatcliffe to bring the America's cup back to england (definitely the racing, and maybe even the cup). He wouldn't have a lot of time, but could throw everything at it. 

 

Ineos team budget AC36 - £110m 

Jim Ratcliffe - $16.9b

 

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24 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Absolutely

Also in the event that Prada remove sponsorship of the challenger series it covers that off neatly.

GDs aim is to keep the team together end of story, IF the 1-1 event against INEOS is the best way to achieve that while giving stability to new syndicates to build towards a return to NZ in 2024 then it would be stupid to turn it down.

So explain how that works....

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2 hours ago, The Advocate said:

@strider470the one I quoted.

POSSIBLE BULLSHIT AHEAD, so don't blame me later.
**** NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, JUST SPECULATION ****

To have your opinion on the matter

Ok, beware, this is fiction, not a rumour. but what if:

UK and NZ decide for a Match very soon, let's say in 1 year, in 2022, in these very boats with minor updates to version 1.5.

Not really a DoG match, but simply one not contemplating a Challenger series in the new mutual agreed protocol. Maybe to be held in UK, if the right bid for the venue is made from Ratcliffe.

In this way, GD can maintain his assets in ETNZ (design and sailing team) and the development of the boat is already there. NZ gains a ton of money from Ratcliffe for this chance and they both plan a subsequent normal AC in NZ (or the UK) 2 years later, in 2024, to maintain the usual scheduling for other subsequent challengers.

In this way, both NZ and the UK will be there with 2.0 boats and an edge compared to other challengers, and GD would have no problems with funding.

In need of Renne!

As a COR hip pocket challenge can the RYS (INEOS) agree terms of a Match (boats, venue, rules etc) with RNZYS that excludes all other challengers? 

Would such an agreement allow a challenger shut out to appeal to the Arbitration Panel and then NYSC and failing insist on a DoG match. 

As I understand it a DoG match is one on one (Blue Arrow were excluded in 1988 - just one match at a time allowed).

P.S. RNZYS and GD presumably want as many challengers as possible to earn monies in NZ so wouldn't agree to a one on one INEOS match under their COR.

 

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2 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

In need of Renne!

As a COR hip pocket challenge can the RYS (INEOS) agree terms of a Match (boats, venue, rules etc) with RNZYS that excludes all other challengers? 

Would such an agreement allow a challenger shut out to appeal to the Arbitration Panel and then NYSC and failing insist on a DoG match. 

As I understand it a DoG match is one on one (Blue Arrow were excluded in 1993 - just one match at a time allowed).

 

 

Yes

Yes to Arbitration, no to NYSC.

A pure DoG match, yes.

 

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25 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I think they won't, because that would start a "war" and the AC would never be the same for years to come.

Now think only if Prada and Alinghi would have done such an agreement. :)

 

End of the day it’s up to the holder 

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6 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

End of the day it’s up to the holder 

Yes, but I suspect ETNZ image, worldwide, would be greatly affected. So far they are (deservedly) the single team most supported by neutrals. That means someghing for sponsorhip. Should they join the dark side...

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1 minute ago, The Advocate said:

Yep, thought it was a thought vomit.

GD gets the event underwritten by INEOS, drastically reducing funding requirements, his pocket billionaires cover the team bill and small upgrades keeping grubby mitts off his team and by the time they are done in the Solent the world economy and boat class has evolved far enough to attract new entries for a full go back in NZ and picking up the Gov funding.

While the two of them are fighting it out in cowes the only options to be picked up and picked over by the waiting Alinghi Is American magic and Prada 

 

 

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