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The AC 37 has started, news and rumours


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13 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I don't understand why a multiple challenger AC next year  could not be a possible solution. Yhey have already the best boat, all the logistics is in place. And NZ could greatly benefit of a non covid AC. Unless INEOS is willing  to pay ETNZ a really huge amount of money. This can be the only explanation.

Presumably, Sir James does not want to compete in a CSS, for the right to challenge.

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I’m not calling this out for the sake of ostracizing you, nor to play PC police on a forum that is notorious for the opposite of that. I could just hit ignore, delete or whatever. I’m calling this out

Hilarious to watch Kiwis who've been around since AC35 twist themselves into intellectual pretzels to give ETNZ a pass on what they screamed bloody murder about when Oracle did it. Even Oracle di

Wow, 13 pages, a frenzy of outraged indignation over something that hasn't even been decided yet? This must set some new kind of SA record??! (... probably not )

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34 minutes ago, Gissie said:

You just need to have confidence that ETNZ wouldn't shaft you and change boats if you looked like you were to good. Gutsy call.

And it not like that's ever happened before. No wait......

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23 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I don't understand why a multiple challenger AC next year  could not be a possible solution. Yhey have already the best boat, all the logistics is in place. And NZ could greatly benefit of a non covid AC. Unless INEOS is willing  to pay ETNZ a really huge amount of money. This can be the only explanation.

You wont see a multiple challenger event until 2024 in either Auckland or Isle of Wright im guessing .

The 2022 DOG match in Isle of Wright is very likely to be reality (I don't think either team will want to race against LR until 2024 because only bad luck prevented a AC36 win for LR)

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1 minute ago, Rennmaus said:

Slight threat drift... How do you do this with the nested quotes?

Try this, Rennie. Highlight the desired text and a 'quote' button to click pops up automatically.

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13 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Slight Huge threat drift... How do you do this with the nested quotes?

Been wondering that for a while, but being a bloke couldn't ask...

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11 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Try this, Rennie. Highlight the desired text and a 'quote' button to click pops up automatically.

Thanks, on behalf of Rennie of course...

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7 hours ago, porthos said:

That's a very good question. Probably prior trustees. When Royal Perth Yacht Club petitioned in 1985 to amend the Deed to allow sailing between certain dates in the southern hemisphere, they included the NYYC in the matter (along with the NY Attorney General). 

I can’t wait to hear Letitia Ann James response when you ask her to comment on the Americas Cup Deed of Gift ... Should be epic....

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17 minutes ago, d2ba said:

You wont see a multiple challenger event until 2024 in either Auckland or Isle of Wright im guessing .

The 2022 DOG match in Isle of Wright is very likely to be reality (I don't think either team will want to race against LR until 2024 because only bad luck prevented a AC36 win for LR)

Isn't 2022 going to be mutual consent in AC 75's? I would love a DOG match, but I don't think that is going to happen.

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40 minutes ago, strider470 said:

 Unless INEOS is willing  to pay ETNZ a really huge amount of money. This can be the only explanation.

That’s the likely reason.....a big pile of cash

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Due to reduced sponsorship opportunities for ETNZ due to Covid, the NZ government should make a one off payment of 60 million to ETNZ.

Normally ETNZ should get its own funding, but it’s a unique situation at the moment. 

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12 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

Isn't 2022 going to be mutual consent in AC 75's? I would love a DOG match, but I don't think that is going to happen.

That's the idea, yes. People call it a DoG match because it will be only two teams and no CSS.  But, yes, if it happens, it will be a mutual consent match. 

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7 hours ago, strider470 said:

According to my dietician, more than one. :D

Really? Those fuckers will give you indigestion.

You know why Ozzies and Kiwifruit are the same?

They're both rough on the outside, green on the inside and too many of them give you the shits.

You have been warned!

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21 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

Isn't 2022 going to be mutual consent in AC 75's? I would love a DOG match, but I don't think that is going to happen.

It's being referred to as a DoG match because it is 1 vs 1.

But assuming it goes ahead as is rumoured, it is most definitely a mutually consented event.

A DoG event is where club sends each other a challenge with nothing agreed meaning the DoG is the only rule. In that case it's "mark your calendar bitches, see you in 9 months in whatever the fuck boat I want".

IIRC the defenders choose the venue and nothing else.

None of this sounds remotely like what is being described in the media.

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It's like a reverse DoG match with the Challenger choosing the location and the Defender choosing the boat! :lol:

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16 minutes ago, Jethrow said:

It's like a reverse DoG match with the Challenger choosing the location and the Defender choosing the boat! :lol:

49ers in the roaring forties off the Auckland Islands. 

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37 minutes ago, jaysper said:

It's being referred to as a DoG match because it is 1 vs 1.

But assuming it goes ahead as is rumoured, it is most definitely a mutually consented event.

A DoG event is where club sends each other a challenge with nothing agreed meaning the DoG is the only rule. In that case it's "mark your calendar bitches, see you in 9 months in whatever the fuck boat I want".

IIRC the defenders choose the venue and nothing else.

None of this sounds remotely like what is being described in the media.

I suspect it "MAY" be more of an exhibition match than anything else, and the outcome will have no bearing on the 2024 match.

Probably completely bankrolled by Sir Jim for publicity.

All the hand wringing in the forums will have been for nought!

No one in their right mind would risk the america's cup over one race. It is after all sailing, and in one race anything can happen!

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I didn't go through the many posts above, so you can correct me :)

My take is that Dalton was willing to organize next AC in 3 or 4 years, Jimmy wants a race around the isle of Wight next year and will compensate Dalt with some pesos who needs it.

Impossible to organize a CSS as they  would get only the present teams with a boat and exclude new potential teams. So they need to organize AC 37 with the present boats that will be modified with a new rule. If they are only two teams, the kiwis and the brits, both teams already agree to race  AC38 with the AC75, nobody can prevent that, the AC is ligit and whoever wins will bring the AC75. So AC38 should be in Auckland whoever wins but Dalton will try to monetize his acceptation of Auckland agains more pesos.

The problem is if they invite other teams at AC37 with a condition that they accept, if they win, to race the AC75 in the next AC. The MC include all the condition of the match that will be raced, not the next one.

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1 hour ago, d2ba said:

 don't think either team will want to race against LR until 2024 because only bad luck prevented a AC36 win for LR

Bad luck and a slower boat. Well, mostly it was the boat.

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10 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I didn't go through the many posts above, so you can correct me :)

My take is that Dalton was willing to organize next AC in 3 or 4 years, Jimmy wants a race around the isle of Wight next year and will compensate Dalt with some pesos who needs it.

Impossible to organize a CSS as they  would get only the present teams with a boat and exclude new potential teams. So they need to organize AC 37 with the present boats that will be modified with a new rule. If they are only two teams, the kiwis and the brits, both teams already agree to race the AC75 in AC38, nobody can prevent that, the AC is ligit and whoever wins will choose the AC75. So AC38 should be in Auckland whoever wins but Dalton will try to monetize his acceptation of Auckland agains more pesos.

The problem is if they invite other teams at AC37 with a condition that they accept, if they win, to race the AC75 in the next AC. The MC include all the condition of the match that will be raced, not the next one. However the MC is a private party, can they ask for conditions not included in the conditions of the match ? Well, if another team asking to challenge in AC38 is exluded because she refuse to sign that agreement before the next challenge, could the go to the NYSC as it no more opened to "any YC" ?

 

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5 hours ago, IPLore said:

In Bermuda when all the teams except NZ agreed to continue using the AC45 before the event was over, was this somehow in breach of the deed?

It absolutely was an outrageous breach. (AC55 btw)

 

4 hours ago, Dave S said:

Anyone with kids knows that there's no point threatening something unless you're willing and able to carry it out

I wonder if GD was an only child?

Because those of us who were from a multi-child family of limited means know that fucking off your parents by being a churlish little cunt throwing your toys out of the cot every time you don't immediately get what you want doesn't get you what you want.

It gets you sent to bed early/grounded/otherwise punished.

The Govt is the parents here.

 

4 hours ago, IPLore said:

The Royal Yacht Squadron is a 200 year old institution

And the RNZYS is 150yrs old this year but their membership & flag officers apparently are ok with letting GD bring their institution into disrepute.

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53 minutes ago, LCS Carbon said:

I suspect it "MAY" be more of an exhibition match than anything else, and the outcome will have no bearing on the 2024 match.

Probably completely bankrolled by Sir Jim for publicity.

All the hand wringing in the forums will have been for nought!

No one in their right mind would risk the america's cup over one race. It is after all sailing, and in one race anything can happen!

If it's an exhibition race then that is just fine and right now all we have is rumours.

However those rumours are quite ugly so I hope they don't come to pass.

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They may have a “one off” but it won’t be for the America’s Cup. It’ll be similar to the Moët Cup between Alinghi and Oracle, in which Oracle won.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

You know why Ozzies and Kiwifruit are the same? They're both rough on the outside, green on the inside and too many of them give you the shits.

:D

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18 minutes ago, jaysper said:

No one in their right mind would risk the america's cup over one race. It is after all sailing, and in one race anything can happen!

One race? Likely a series (best of 3, 5 or 7) no?

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26 minutes ago, hoom said:

I wonder if GD was an only child?

No. He has an older brother Graham, who is a solo RTW sailor.

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8 hours ago, IPLore said:

What amendments is everyone thinking needs making to the deed?

For what I am referring to, I think it might be possible to modernise the document with definitions and/or clarifications rather than amendments. So I think it would be prudent to look at this avenue first.

As some others have suggested, the amendments that have been made were done in a way that required the NYSC to not do the heavy lifting, so my thinking is put articles to them that clarify the document in a modern event environment, rather than change it. Yes I nderstand that there is an argument that some definitions could change the document and it's intent, but that is not what I am suggesting.

Look at terms and so forth like "challange" and the method that is done. "vessel" and whether that could relate to any vessel of a single team given once upon a time a challenge would only have one and now it is common for more than one. The aspect of CIC and how it pertains to the current outlook on nationality also needs to be clearer.

That is the crux of what I am suggesting. I don't think there is a major problem with the DoG, but rather the application of it, and IMHO, that is because it is not as clear as it could be whilst maintaining the original intent.

I hope that makes sense, not long awake and have tried to catch up on all the overnight posts.

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18 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

They may have a “one off” but it won’t be for the America’s Cup. It’ll be similar to the Moët Cup between Alinghi and Oracle, in which Oracle won.

So why are they using the AC protocol? Why not the champagne Cup protocol?

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2 hours ago, d2ba said:

...only bad luck prevented a AC36 win for LR

Really? I must have been watching an altogether different regatta.

(And it's the Isle of Wight, by the way.)

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2 hours ago, Rennmaus said:
3 hours ago, mad said:

Can Ineos not just find a tame yacht club?

Slight Huge threat drift... How do you do this with the nested quotes?

Like this??

select all the text by dragging and selecting, and a little quote selection option will pop up. Click and post. 

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

Really? I must have been watching an altogether different regatta.

(And it's the Isle of Wight, by the way.)

Is that write?

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3 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Is that write?

Ha, ha. Close, but no cigar. ;-)

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21 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:
41 minutes ago, jaysper said:

No one in their right mind would risk the america's cup over one race. It is after all sailing, and in one race anything can happen!

One race? Likely a series (best of 3, 5 or 7) no?

Sorry, Jays. Wrong attribution.

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3 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Presumably, Sir James does not want to compete in a CSS, for the right to challenge.

I guess if you can't compete with fellow challengers, the easiest way is to write a stonking great cheque to ensure you are the only challenger.

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5 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Sorry, Jays. Wrong attribution.

Btw, SailbyDate is a wanker.

All good, yeah the forum can be a bit finicky.

All sorts of funny things can end up being mis-quoted :lol:

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1 minute ago, jaysper said:

I guess if you can't compete with fellow challengers, the easiest way is to write a stonking great cheque to ensure you are the only challenger.

Thes $quillionaires usually get what they want, I believe.

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1 hour ago, LCS Carbon said:

No one in their right mind would risk the america's cup over one race. It is after all sailing, and in one race anything can happen!

Dalts and many of his Merry Men are no cowards, and know exactly how to weigh in risks. Between them they have won more Round the World Race's than you can dream of. And Dalts also knows a bit about money, no denying.

And the eventual risks will be minimal anyway, as it would be under a strict protocol, with safe wind limits and some redress/rematch conditions.

And just in case, TNZ will have the chance to win it straight back in their home waters.

It might cost Jim Rat a few bob, but the ROI will be huge for Ineos/Grenadier, and for his ego too.

Clearly a win win for everybody, except for those here who believe that multiple Challengers is the Holy Grail.

 

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49 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

They may have a “one off” but it won’t be for the America’s Cup. It’ll be similar to the Moët Cup between Alinghi and Oracle, in which Oracle won.

Yes, that is what I am thinking!

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23 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Really? I must have been watching an altogether different regatta.

I think it is a too much to say that it was only bad luck that LR lost....  However,  it was at least plausible that LR could have won it, albeit with a bit of luck.

After the first 3 days, it was 3-3,  but I think with the conditions and race track, if LR had one a few more starts it could easily have been 5-1 (yes that goes both ways).  Then of the racing after that, LR was in with a good chance of winning at least 2 of the races it lost, with just split second decisions making the difference.

Moreover, if COVID had not delayed the start, then TR may have been even less sharp at the start of the regatta.

So while ultimately it was probably a comfortable win, it was probably a lot closer that NZ had expected and they had at least a little bit of a concern.

They didn't win it with luck, but with a touch of bad luck NZ could have lost it.

 

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30 minutes ago, Gissie said:
49 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

They may have a “one off” but it won’t be for the America’s Cup. It’ll be similar to the Moët Cup between Alinghi and Oracle, in which Oracle won.

So why are they using the AC protocol? Why not the champagne Cup protocol?

This is the point though isn't it. This is what gets the hackles up.

If they had of said:

"Hey everyone, the bank of Sir Jim is tossing notes to us for a big party in 2024 here in Auckland and you are all welcome. In the mean time, Sir Jim and us are going to have a bit of a squirt around the Isle for shits and giggles because he wants the Poms to remember what all these shenanigans is about, that will just be the 2 boats but you are all invited to the piss up, drinks are on Sir Jim!"

Then none of us would have an issue.

 

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2 minutes ago, sfigone said:

I think it is a too much to say that it was only bad luck that LR lost....  However,  it was at least plausible that LR could have won it, albeit with a bit of luck.

After the first 3 days, it was 3-3,  but I think with the conditions and race track, if LR had one a few more starts it could easily have been 5-1 (yes that goes both ways).  Then of the racing after that, LR was in with a good chance of winning at least 2 of the races it lost, with just split second decisions making the difference.

Moreover, if COVID had not delayed the start, then TR may have been even less sharp at the start of the regatta.

So while ultimately it was probably a comfortable win, it was probably a lot closer that NZ had expected and they had at least a little bit of a concern.

They didn't win it with luck, but with a touch of bad luck NZ could have lost it.

 

Yeah. That's a bit more like the regatta I was watching. ;-)

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19 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

 the ROI will be huge for Ineos/Grenadier, and for his ego too.

 

 

Be really good for the ego to know that the only way to get your team into a cup final is buy the event and kick all the other challengers out.

Real good for bragging at the billionaires club bar I am sure. :lol:

To be honest, seems Rats is the one pouring a bit of lukewarm water on the subject.

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3 hours ago, strider470 said:

I don't understand why a multiple challenger AC next year  could not be a possible solution. Yhey have already the best boat, all the logistics is in place. And NZ could greatly benefit of a non covid AC. Unless INEOS is willing  to pay ETNZ a really huge amount of money. This can be the only explanation.

It is absolutely "Inconceivable" to hold a Challenger Selection Series next year unless you want the same Teams who competed in Auckland. New Teams would have no chance making it.

The Protocol for AC37 probably gets published between September and November this year. Then you have to have a proper Entry Period which usually lasts 6 months, say from 1st January 2022 until June 30th 2022. After that any new Teams would need to built their Boat which takes about 7-8 months. The earliest they could have a CSS is in 2023.

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On FareVela, an interview with Matteo de Nora, worth translating.

https://farevela.net/2021/03/20/americas-cup-intervista-a-matteo-de-nora-etnz-piu-veloce-e-lidea-di-un-match-a-due-con-ineos-ce/

Certainly not my favorite Italian, typical insufferable Milanese born into money, never worked one day in his life, escaped to NZ (it’s usually Montecarlo) for fear of “communist” expropriation, meaning paying taxes ...

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11 minutes ago, Xlot said:

On FareVela, an interview with Matteo de Nora, worth translating.

https://farevela.net/2021/03/20/americas-cup-intervista-a-matteo-de-nora-etnz-piu-veloce-e-lidea-di-un-match-a-due-con-ineos-ce/

Certainly not my favorite Italian, typical Milanese born into money, never worked one day in his life, escaped to NZ (it’s usually Montecarlo) for fear of “communist” expropriation, meaning paying taxes ...

Piss and wind and smokescreens.

"Taking the Cup back to its origins", romantasised twaddle and bullshit designed to win over the uninformed and portray themselves as the good guys doing the right thing.

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

They may have a “one off” but it won’t be for the America’s Cup. It’ll be similar to the Moët Cup between Alinghi and Oracle, in which Oracle won.

No...  I'm pretty sure ETNZ plans to make it an official Cup match. One more win (and they're guaranteed to win).  Its all shady as fuck. 

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26 minutes ago, Xlot said:

On FareVela, an interview with Matteo de Nora, worth translating.

https://farevela.net/2021/03/20/americas-cup-intervista-a-matteo-de-nora-etnz-piu-veloce-e-lidea-di-un-match-a-due-con-ineos-ce/

Certainly not my favorite Italian, typical insufferable Milanese born into money, never worked one day in his life, escaped to NZ (it’s usually Montecarlo) for fear of “communist” expropriation, meaning paying taxes ...

Worked for a couple of brothers from there. Born into money but lost it all when China stomped on the textile industry. Not that you would know from their behaviour. :lol:

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1 hour ago, Fiji Bitter said:

And just in case, TNZ will have the chance to win it straight back in their home waters.

It might cost Jim Rat a few bob, but the ROI will be huge for Ineos/Grenadier, and for his ego too.

Clearly a win win for everybody, except for those here who believe that multiple Challengers is the Holy Grail.

 

What did you put in your drink ? you sound like Alice in Wonderland. Dalton has a tradition of finishing fighting with his CoR/D. So, after Coutts and Bertelli he will probably end the same way with Ratcliffe. There is a difference however, they may fight as soon as 2022, well before the next AC. And Jim may have longer teeth than the other ones. :D

Go back to your dreams, well, Alice. :)

 

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2 minutes ago, Blitzkrieg9 said:

No...  I'm pretty sure ETNZ plans to make it an official Cup match. One more win (and they're guaranteed to win).  Its all shady as fuck. 

Yup an exhibition match really gives little to the Frackers in return for the associated costs.

How they could make significant improvements to the Royal barge to make it competitive against Te Rehutai

 would be of real concern within 12 months for a AC one on one.

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24 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Piss and wind and smokescreens.

"Taking the Cup back to its origins", romantasised twaddle and bullshit designed to win over the uninformed and portray themselves as the good guys doing the right thing.

To be fair, if the rumours are true they ARE taking the cup back to its roots.

24 successful defences cos the rules are stacked in their favour.

I wonder if the Italians will be expected to sail their AC 75 from italy to New Zealand?

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48 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

It is absolutely "Inconceivable" to hold a Challenger Selection Series next year unless you want the same Teams who competed in Auckland. New Teams would have no chance making it.

The Protocol for AC37 probably gets published between September and November this year. Then you have to have a proper Entry Period which usually lasts 6 months, say from 1st January 2022 until June 30th 2022. After that any new Teams would need to built their Boat which takes about 7-8 months. The earliest they could have a CSS is in 2023.

This isn’t factoring in designing a boat, so 2023 seems even tighter

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Just now, jaysper said:

To be fair, if the rumours are true they ARE taking the cup back to its roots.

24 successful defences cos the rules are stacked in their favour.

I wonder if the Italians will be expected to sail their AC 75 from italy to New Zealand?

No just the Swiss 

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10 minutes ago, Blitzkrieg9 said:

Its a method. 

So is the rhythm method.

Catholics have a name for women who use the rhythm method: "mother".

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1 minute ago, jaysper said:

To be fair, if the rumours are true they ARE taking the cup back to its roots.

24 successful defences cos the rules are stacked in their favour.

I wonder if the Italians will be expected to sail their AC 75 from italy to New Zealand?

Was waiting for it :ph34r::lol:

No, that requirement has been removed from the document that cannot be altered. B)

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58 minutes ago, sfigone said:

So while ultimately it was probably a comfortable win, it was probably a lot closer that NZ had expected and they had at least a little bit of a concern.

They didn't win it with luck, but with a touch of bad luck NZ could have lost it.

 

I was was worried when it was 3 wins a piece, it was a lot more stressful than the previous cup. 

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Just now, Blitzkrieg9 said:
3 minutes ago, jaysper said:

So is the rhythm method.

Catholics have a name for women who use the rhythm method: "mother".

I never said it was a GOOD method... 

Catholics seem to think so.

Wonderful example of how perspective can change so much.....

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4 hours ago, kiwin said:

Just not true. Most of that went to "infrastructure". $100 million went to remediation of the toxic tank farm, which Auckland council were on the hook for anyway. Propaganda.

You’re in fantasy land with that $100m assumption.

The Tank Farm has not been remediated and remains a toxic wasteland.

The areas occupied for the AC 36 once the tanks were removed were simply covered with asphalt and handed over to Amway the Frackers and the Race Committee.

My comment is that the $250m spent was to assist by way of infrastructure including the syndicate base for TNZ plus race event costs and most probably a direct cash injection to the TNZ coffers post Bermuda.

In reality the infrastructure legacy for Auckland City amounts to some pontoons a couple of breakwaters and the Handbags platform along with some stormwater upgrades that link to unrelated projects.

All other works that include the remediation of the Quay St sea wall the ferry wharf upgrade etc sit outside the $250 million.

 

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2 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

My take is that Dalton was willing to organize next AC in 3 or 4 years, Jimmy wants a race around the isle of Wight next year and will compensate Dalt with some pesos who needs it.

Impossible to organize a CSS as they  would get only the present teams with a boat and exclude new potential teams. So they need to organize AC 37 with the present boats that will be modified with a new rule. If they are only two teams, the kiwis and the brits, both teams already agree to race the AC75 in AC38, nobody can prevent that, the AC is ligit and whoever wins will choose the AC75. So AC38 should be in Auckland whoever wins but Dalton will try to monetize his acceptation of Auckland agains more pesos.

You got it, mate!

Some of us have been saying essentially that barely 24 hours after the acceptance of the challenge was announced.  

Look at the situation in that light and it is a win-win for Ratcliffe and Dalton. The Britt gets his Cup match in Cowes next year (number of races still to be decided), then four years from now they meet again in Auckland with CSS to welcome all legit comers. None of that precluded by DoG conditions and just to be sure, six to eight months to iron out any legal tangles that threaten to interfere.

Brits and Kiwis get to compete in two challenges in four or five years and we get to watch.   Other Cup hopefuls still get to take part in normal CSS timeframe.

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1 hour ago, Blitzkrieg9 said:

No...  I'm pretty sure ETNZ plans to make it an official Cup match. One more win (and they're guaranteed to win).  Its all shady as fuck. 

Nah, its too big of a risk. They'll lose prospective teams by doing that. Ratcliffe has already said he wants encourage more teams, not exclude them. A one on one DoG match goes against everything both teams have been wanting to do. I can't see this happening. The DoG match provisions exists (or is supposed to exist) in the case of teams who cannot establish mutual consent. This is too big of a risk for ETNZ, and they stand to gain nothing by doing it. Dalton may not be the most likeable man in the game, but he's definitely not stupid. The Cup will be held in NZ. 

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2 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

You got it, mate!

Some of us have been saying essentially that barely 24 hours after the acceptance of the challenge was announced.  

Look at the situation in that light and it is a win-win for Ratcliffe and Dalton. The Britt gets his Cup match in Cowes next year (number of races still to be decided), then four years from now they meet again in Auckland with CSS to welcome all legit comers. None of that precluded by DoG conditions and just to be sure, six to eight months to iron out any legal tangles that threaten to interfere.

Brits and Kiwis get to compete in two challenges in four or five years and we get to watch.   Other Cup hopefuls still get to take part in normal CSS timeframe.

But this is still sewing up the AC for 2 cycles, when you have only won it once.

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Nah, its too big of a risk. They'll lose prospective teams by doing that. Ratcliffe has already said he wants encourage more teams, not exclude them. A one on one DoG match goes against everything both teams have been wanting to do. I can't see this happening. The DoG match provisions exists (or is supposed to exist) in the case of teams who cannot establish mutual consent. This is too big of a risk for ETNZ, and they stand to gain nothing by doing it. Dalton may not be the most likeable man in the game, but he's definitely not stupid. The Cup will be held in NZ. 

But it won't be a DoG match. It will be a MC AC match limited to COR/D.  Then followed up by a proper AC match with CSS 3 years later. They will both be official AC matches. ETNZ will get a "free win" to add to the record book. 

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4 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

You got it, mate!

Some of us have been saying essentially that barely 24 hours after the acceptance of the challenge was announced.  

Look at the situation in that light and it is a win-win for Ratcliffe and Dalton. The Britt gets his Cup match in Cowes next year (number of races still to be decided), then four years from now they meet again in Auckland with CSS to welcome all legit comers. None of that precluded by DoG conditions and just to be sure, six to eight months to iron out any legal tangles that threaten to interfere.

Brits and Kiwis get to compete in two challenges in four or five years and we get to watch.   Other Cup hopefuls still get to take part in normal CSS timeframe.

Its not a win win though. Its a huge win for Ratcliffe, and a potentially huge loss for Dalton. If they don't host the Cup in NZ, the NZ Government and ACC will simply tell them not to come back.

If they go overseas, they may win the Cup, but they'll essentially be homeless. 

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47 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

You’re in fantasy land with that $100m assumption.

The Tank Farm has not been remediated and remains a toxic wasteland.

The areas occupied for the AC 36 once the tanks were removed were simply covered with asphalt and handed over to Amway the Frackers and the Race Committee.

My comment is that the $250m spent was to assist by way of infrastructure including the syndicate base for TNZ plus race event costs and most probably a direct cash injection to the TNZ coffers post Bermuda.

In reality the infrastructure legacy for Auckland City amounts to some pontoons a couple of breakwaters and the Handbags platform along with some stormwater upgrades that link to unrelated projects.

All other works that include the remediation of the Quay St sea wall the ferry wharf upgrade etc sit outside the $250 million.

 

My understanding is that much of the ground under the tanks was full of toxic waste and so that had to be remediated at a high cost. That cost was most definitely included.

The works done by the council were not what ETNZ, or the marine community wanted. The plan from ETNZ would have cost slightly more but resulted in 50 % more retained infrastructure in the form of Super yacht facilities, of which Auckland is very short. Instead the council sought to load up cost for which they were liable onto the America's Cup bill, despite a lesser return. There was also a threat of legal action against the council by some very wealthy property developers if they didn't get their own way which definitely influenced the council. In short the council discharged some of their cost & billed it to the America's Cup, despite that diminishing the infrastructure return, and also avoided action from some wealthy bully boys.

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3 minutes ago, Blitzkrieg9 said:

But it won't be a DoG match.

I disagree. It will be DoG Match in that there are only the 378's there and the mutual consent is the class, venue and format. I don't think 2 paties agreeing to things makes it a MC Cup. Could be arse up on that though.

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5 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Its not a win win though. Its a huge win for Ratcliffe, and a potentially huge loss for Dalton. If they don't host the Cup in NZ, the NZ Government and ACC will simply tell them not to come back.

If they go overseas, they may win the Cup, but they'll essentially be homeless. 

And quite frankly good riddance if they do.

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5 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

I disagree. It will be DoG Match in that there are only the 378's there and the mutual consent is the class, venue and format. I don't think 2 paties agreeing to things makes it a MC Cup. Could be arse up on that though.

Nope, definitely not a DoG match.

DoG match is where the challenger presents the challenge and the defenders stipulate the venue.

Everything else including the boat, course, number of races is taken straight from the DoG.

This is mutual consent where the challenger and defender have had a massive circle jerk months in advance to agree on venue, date, boat and presumably financial compensation.

But the real kicker is that they SEEM to have reached mutual consent for the cup after that.

 

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5 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

I don't think 2 paties agreeing to things makes it a MC Cup. Could be arse up on that though.

A "mutual consent" match is *exactly* defined as two parties agreeing to terms. 

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8 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

I disagree. It will be DoG Match in that there are only the 378's there and the mutual consent is the class, venue and format. I don't think 2 paties agreeing to things makes it a MC Cup. Could be arse up on that though.

It won't be a DoG match, because that means the AC75 is out. 

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Just now, Forourselves said:

It won't be a DoG match, because that means the AC75 is out. 

Plus they have mutually consented to the terms and conditions for the match, which is a bit of a give away

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

It won't be a DoG match, because that means the AC75 is out. 

Yeah, was having conflicting thoughts as to whether a DoG Match could be in one class of boat. Threw out a brain fart.

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