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The AC 37 has started, news and rumours


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I’m not calling this out for the sake of ostracizing you, nor to play PC police on a forum that is notorious for the opposite of that. I could just hit ignore, delete or whatever. I’m calling this out

Hilarious to watch Kiwis who've been around since AC35 twist themselves into intellectual pretzels to give ETNZ a pass on what they screamed bloody murder about when Oracle did it. Even Oracle di

Wow, 13 pages, a frenzy of outraged indignation over something that hasn't even been decided yet? This must set some new kind of SA record??! (... probably not )

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2 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

That’s fine as long as the rules and spec for aC38 are defined exactly prior to AC37 or you are just sailing your boats around with no idea of the criteria that will apply to them other than being a 75ft foiling mono hull. 
 

plus if you are doing this is shoots a hole in the argument to reject the two cup cycle proposal, if you hated the idea of being dictated too so much you wouldn’t be two boat testing 

Too many logical fallacies to deal with here.

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1 hour ago, chesirecat said:

Probably still  ongoing. They have massive computing power and might have caught up a bit. LR spent over 55 million euros on software so they might well have some good stuff. There will be masses of data teams will still be going through. Rig control - foils - control systems and laying down initial concepts for B3's so as Jazmart said - busy times at Portsmouth for the next 8 months

A lot depends how you use data. Ask any accountant. :lol:

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2 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

True but if and only if there are other teams out there with the considerable funding needed to do that.  Unclear that is true.

As a thought, can they in fact stay put in Auckland? Who owns/controls the team bases and what agenda might they have?

The council I think. Make money. From the sounds of it they have read the "GD's quide to making money from the Cup" 3 times.

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Just now, Sailbydate said:

Training camps work well for the, French. One of the reasons why they're world leading ocean racers.

But it's not the smart way to design development. Two boat testing is old school. Simulators, AI and Bots are now where it's at. Much cheaper and quicker, once the software is developed. 

I agree to a point, but there must be some reason the boats have developed so quickly over the course of the last few months. Whether it's optimising the boat, learning how to race it against someone else, or learning what works in practice and what modes are useful (Luna Rossa high mode), it's clear that there's currently no substitute for getting out on the water and getting stuck in against another boat.

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1 minute ago, Dave S said:

I agree to a point, but there must be some reason the boats have developed so quickly over the course of the last few months. Whether it's optimising the boat, learning how to race it against someone else, or learning what works in practice and what modes are useful (Luna Rossa high mode), it's clear that there's currently no substitute for getting out on the water and getting stuck in against another boat.

Still hear on occasional "that didn't model well" in areas where modelling software has been super developed.

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9 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

The council I think. Make money. From the sounds of it they have read the "GD's quide to making money from the Cup" 3 times.

I dare say but how would they make most money? Building housing on brownfield sites is favourite around here. Industrial use, less so.  Given Auckland housing prices, the same may apply?

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15 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

The right criticism out of the wrong reasons, but needed anyway.

"And when a challenge from a Club fulfilling all the conditions required by this instrument has been received, no other challenge can be considered until the pending event has been decided." (Deed of Gift of the America's Cup)

SailingAnarchy.de   
https://twitter.com/SailAnarchyde

Thanks Renn.  That could be a show-stopper.

The intent is clear but does it fit the situation we're discussing here?

The wording is sufficiently imprecise that any barrister worth his salt could drive a truck through it.

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1 minute ago, KiwiJoker said:

Thanks Renn.  That could be a show-stopper.

The intent is clear but does it fit the situation we're discussing here?

The wording is sufficiently imprecise that any barrister worth his salt could drive a truck through it.

It is still a shot over the bow.

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3 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

I dare say but how would they make most money? Building housing on brownfield sites is favourite around here. Industrial use, less so.  Given Auckland housing prices, the same may apply?

Not sure about NZL but I think it is similar. Down here there are large chunks of council owned land set aside for public use that cant be sold off.

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57 minutes ago, strider470 said:

If it were the Americans against the British, in a race around the Isle of Wight, it would have been a rematch of a classic event. This is only a farce, and a cash cow for ETNZ.

It would be a great event, I would love it, it would be tremendously interesting and soooo traditional... As long as a UK team would be the Defender.
A Kiwi Team defending in British or any foreign waters is not right. It's simply not honorable.
(I know, Alinghi and Oracle... I hated them for the same reasons too.)
 

12 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

Thanks Renn.  That could be a show-stopper.

The intent is clear but does it fit the situation we're discussing here?

The wording is sufficiently imprecise that any barrister worth his salt could drive a truck through it.

I have no idea how a court case would turn out (who has?). But from my perspective are any possible AC38 agreements in the AC37 protocol moot.

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The event I'd like to see in the Solent next year is a series with two boats made available to many teams.

They could use B1 of NZ and Ineos, pimped with new foils and sails to make them closely matched.     Teams would need to qualify on simulators and other foiling boats, but then a round robin series could be done with each team being allocated a random boat for each day of racing.   Maybe LR and AM could also provide their first boats as well.

This would be a great spectacle and would allow a lot of sailors to get some experience in the class, hopefully including youth and female sailors.  Teams that are considering a challenge can test the waters before committing to building a boat.  

Also a round the island fleet race would be a great spectacle.

But all of this should be class development and nothing to do with AC37!

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, sfigone said:

The event I'd like to see in the Solent next year is a series with two boats made available to many teams.

They could use B1 of NZ and Ineos, pimped with new foils and sails to make them closely matched.     Teams would need to qualify on simulators and other foiling boats, but then a round robin series could be done with each team being allocated a random boat for each day of racing.   Maybe LR and AM could also provide their first boats as well.

This would be a great spectacle and would allow a lot of sailors to get some experience in the class, hopefully including youth and female sailors.  Teams that are considering a challenge can test the waters before committing to building a boat.  

Also a round the island fleet race would be a great spectacle.

But all of this should be class development and nothing to do with AC37!

 

 

 

 

Yep, would be a nice dog and pony show. Fuck all value as anything else.

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3 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

Well it's all just speculation at this stage, but no one speculates better than SAAC :D

Absolutely! Remember, this is the forum that correctly figured out the design of Cheesezilla from little more than a couple of aerial photos of an empty boatyard taken by a forumite...

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7 minutes ago, Dave S said:

Absolutely! Remember, this is the forum that correctly figured out the design of Cheesezilla from little more than a couple of aerial photos of an empty boatyard taken by a forumite...

The Y and a white plastic chair.

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Too many posts to argue with. Ineos and ETNZ media releases quite different. Ineos just happy to be in the game. 

I don't see how ETNZ will make money from a one off in England. No challenger has ever seriously funded a defender. No defender has ever willingly risked losing the cup on a one off. Agreeing to the class is always a condition of entry, unless you're willing to do a proper DOG match. Chill, there's years of intrigue to come

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Definitely a warning shot from the NYYC there, but just as surprising to see them endorse the AC75.

I have mixed feelings about American Magic and the NYYC, but anyone thinking their voice doesn't carry a lot of weight in these issues and particularly if it comes to a legal fight is kidding themselves.

Especially now that they've been in the game with a really full on challenge (however disappointing) for the first time in a while.

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5 minutes ago, idontwan2know said:

surprising to see them endorse the AC75

Not that much: their boat was likely the fastest around in a straight line (and a pretty interesting concept) and I'm sure they already have some good ideas (and money) to put some serious stuff on the water.

19 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

No challenger has ever seriously funded a defender

Well, the list of stuff that LR paid in the last couple of cycles tells a quite different story.

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27 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

Too many posts to argue with. Ineos and ETNZ media releases quite different. Ineos just happy to be in the game. 

I don't see how ETNZ will make money from a one off in England. No challenger has ever seriously funded a defender. No defender has ever willingly risked losing the cup on a one off. Agreeing to the class is always a condition of entry, unless you're willing to do a proper DOG match. Chill, there's years of intrigue to come

Bold: Yes, but not for the Cup after the current one.

On another note: At least NYYC is interested to still compete in the AC. This is good news, as we haven't heard from them since the defeat of American Magic.

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8 minutes ago, Thewas said:

Not that much: their boat was likely the fastest around in a straight line (and a pretty interesting concept) and I'm sure they already have some good ideas (and money) to put some serious stuff on the water.

Well, the list of stuff that LR paid in the last couple of cycles tells a quite different story.

Nope.

When LR did help ETNZ, they already have (been forced to) quit the competition. And in 2013 they paid for knowledge, not to jump the CSS.

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57 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

Well it's all just speculation at this stage

Not really, when the Commodore of the NYYC has waded in, it is more than just speculation.

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4 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:



On another note: At least NYYC is interested to still compete in the AC. This is good news, as we haven't heard from them since the defeat of American Magic.

We have now heard that all 3 challengers wish to challenge again. This is good news . Surely this calls for a challenger series .  It is possibly only ETNZ that needs to find funding for its defense.

If ways can be made to reduce the cost of an AC75, then we could see multiple entries.

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2 minutes ago, strider470 said:

When LR did help ETNZ, they already have (been forced to) quit the competition.

I was talking in perspective: AC35 LR was out of the game, but, in their projection, they (LR and ETNZ) were already CoR and Def for AC36. So, IMHO, they were already a CoR paying a Def, actually helping them to become Def.
In AC36 the CSS was almost completely paid by Bertelli, and I don't think he get some money out of it.
I was also considering that Bertelli had no personal or competitive interest in putting in place a CSS. of course there was an agreement before, but, if we have to consider the rumors around, looks like ITUK made a quite different deal with ETNZ.

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BTW, I just read (sorry if it's already known: for me was a news) that Prada appointed a BIG silver medal to the whole ETNZ team (150 ppl!) for sportsmanship and team effort.

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1 minute ago, Thewas said:

BTW, I just read (sorry if it's already known: for me was a news) that Prada appointed a BIG silver medal to the whole ETNZ team (150 ppl!) for sportsmanship and team effort.

Amateurs! Ratcliffe would have given a gold medal to every ETNZ supporter as well. :D

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2 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

Thanks Renn.  That could be a show-stopper.

The intent is clear but does it fit the situation we're discussing here?

The wording is sufficiently imprecise that any barrister worth his salt could drive a truck through it.

There is another portion of the Deed that is also relevant. The Protocol only exists via the "mutual consent" clause of the Deed, which reads: "The Club challenging for the Cup and the Club holding the same may by mutual consent make any arrangement satisfactory to both as to the dates, courses, number of trials, rules and sailing regulations, and any and all other conditions of the match . . . ." 

"Mutual consent" requires a challenging club and a defending club. Neither of those entities can exist for AC38 until AC37 is over. If there is no mutual consent, there can be no relevant or certainly binding Protocol. You or I could draft a Protocol for AC38 right now and it would have as much legal weight as whatever ETNZ/INEOS may publish before AC37 is over.

When you read the Deed as a whole, a court would likely have little trouble confirming that any Protocol for AC38 that ETNZ/INEOS publish prior to the end of AC37 are just words on a page until AC37 is over.

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4 hours ago, JJD said:

Oh fuck off you prissy bitch. 
you know how the funding works. Every cup cycle is an end of contract cycle. Same for employees, sponsors, suppliers. 
if your sick of it, go support someone else. 

Waaaaaaah waaaaah waaaaah! LOL!

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12 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Amateurs! Ratcliffe would have given a gold medal to every ETNZ supporter as well. :D

Just in case... FORZA ETNZ!!!! :D :D

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23 minutes ago, Thewas said:

I was talking in perspective: AC35 LR was out of the game, but, in their projection, they (LR and ETNZ) were already CoR and Def for AC36. So, IMHO, they were already a CoR paying a Def, actually helping them to become Def.
In AC36 the CSS was almost completely paid by Bertelli, and I don't think he get some money out of it.
I was also considering that Bertelli had no personal or competitive interest in putting in place a CSS. of course there was an agreement before, but, if we have to consider the rumors around, looks like ITUK made a quite different deal with ETNZ.

The CSS is Challenger/CoR business. No reason for the Defender to pay/organize anything.
But the AC is the Defender's affair. IIRC, Prada paid a lot for the AC as well.

20 minutes ago, Thewas said:

BTW, I just read (sorry if it's already known: for me was a news) that Prada appointed a BIG silver medal to the whole ETNZ team (150 ppl!) for sportsmanship and team effort.

Yes. Classy, isn't it?

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One thing I understood since I began to follow the AC  is that the Deed of Gift is better and way smarter than the people trying to change or bend it.

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1 hour ago, Dave S said:

Absolutely! Remember, this is the forum that correctly figured out the design of Cheesezilla from little more than a couple of aerial photos of an empty boatyard taken by a forumite...

We figured out a lot more than that.

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1 minute ago, The Advocate said:

It's a ton more than speculation.

Surely it's speculation until the Defender and COR announce it? 

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56 minutes ago, idontwan2know said:

Definitely a warning shot from the NYYC there, but just as surprising to see them endorse the AC75.

I have mixed feelings about American Magic and the NYYC, but anyone thinking their voice doesn't carry a lot of weight in these issues and particularly if it comes to a legal fight is kidding themselves.

Especially now that they've been in the game with a really full on challenge (however disappointing) for the first time in a while.

I suspect this was just a warm up and a dip the toes in the water from them.

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3 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

they had a choice, continue the break down in relations with GD during AC36 or put out an olive branch fix the issues and be COR again. 

Pinning it all on LR is some weapons grade bullshit.

Dalton doesn't know how to play nice with others. 

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5 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Anything to stop Any of the AC36 teams going back out and testing currently? 
other than money...
 

are they forbidden from sailing/developing before the full rule is announced? 
or can all the facilities off limits, tank, model testing, more foil shapes but thrown open? 

That depends on what the new Protocol says. Just as it can apply nationality requirements as of the end of the last Cup, it can back-date components limits, modification, and testing in the same way.

This has been done in previous ACs run under a continuing Class Rule, where the clock on modifications and new components starts running as of the last day of racing in the previous Cup.

Anyone who starts testing or building parts now, without knowing the terms of the new Protocol and what modifications might be made to a revised Class Rule, is putting themselves at risk of violating that Protocol and becoming ineligible for the next event (whatever that is). They may also be throwing money away on building parts that might not comply with a revised Class Rule.

Teams that need to raise outside money (that is everyone not primarily funded by a billionaire or a sovereign wealth fund) need more guidance before doing anything other than trying to set set up or maintain their own organizations, which isn't easy to do with no money.

Right now, the terms of the next AC, and maybe the one after, are just vaporware.

Cool your jets.

Rampant speculation and conspiracy mongering can lead to Q Anon, and anarchy.

Oh, wait...

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30 minutes ago, porthos said:

There is another portion of the Deed that is also relevant. The Protocol only exists via the "mutual consent" clause of the Deed, which reads: "The Club challenging for the Cup and the Club holding the same may by mutual consent make any arrangement satisfactory to both as to the dates, courses, number of trials, rules and sailing regulations, and any and all other conditions of the match . . . ." 

"Mutual consent" requires a challenging club and a defending club. Neither of those entities can exist for AC38 until AC37 is over. If there is no mutual consent, there can be no relevant or certainly binding Protocol. You or I could draft a Protocol for AC38 right now and it would have as much legal weight as whatever ETNZ/INEOS may publish before AC37 is over.

When you read the Deed as a whole, a court would likely have little trouble confirming that any Protocol for AC38 that ETNZ/INEOS publish prior to the end of AC37 are just words on a page until AC37 is over.

Where have you been, we have been saying this for since the press release.

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3 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

The right criticism out of the wrong reasons, but needed anyway.

If they think they can stop a 1 vs 1 they are delusional methinks.

Better to focus on the circle jerk requirement for acceptance of the AC75.

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7 minutes ago, accnick said:

That depends on what the new Protocol says. Just as it can apply nationality requirements as of the end of the last Cup, it can back-date components limits, modification, and testing in the same way.

This has been done in previous ACs run under a continuing Class Rule, where the clock on modifications and new components starts running as of the last day of racing in the previous Cup.

Anyone who starts testing or building parts now, without knowing the terms of the new Protocol and what modifications might be made to a revised Class Rule, is putting themselves at risk of violating that Protocol and becoming ineligible for the next event (whatever that is). They may also be throwing money away on building parts that might not comply with a revised Class Rule.

Teams that need to raise outside money (that is everyone not primarily funded by a billionaire or a sovereign wealth fund) need more guidance before doing anything other than trying to set set up or maintain their own organizations, which isn't easy to do with no money.

Right now, the terms of the next AC, and maybe the one after, are just vaporware.

Cool your jets.

Rampant speculation and conspiracy mongering can lead to Q Anon, and anarchy.

Oh, wait...

It can't apply anything to 38. To try and do so is vapourware.

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4 minutes ago, accnick said:

That depends on what the new Protocol says. Just as it can apply nationality requirements as of the end of the last Cup, it can back-date components limits, modification, and testing in the same way.

This has been done in previous ACs run under a continuing Class Rule, where the clock on modifications and new components starts running as of the last day of racing in the previous Cup.

Anyone who starts testing or building parts now, without knowing the terms of the new Protocol and what modifications might be made to a revised Class Rule, is putting themselves at risk of violating that Protocol and becoming ineligible for the next event (whatever that is). They may also be throwing money away on building parts that might not comply with a revised Class Rule.

Teams that need to raise outside money (that is everyone not primarily funded by a billionaire or a sovereign wealth fund) need more guidance before doing anything other than trying to set set up or maintain their own organizations, which isn't easy to do with no money.

Right now, the terms of the next AC, and maybe the one after, are just vaporware.

 

Backdating the protocol to retroactively exclude a team on the bais that they kept on working on AC75 development seems a low probability occurrence to me.  The defender typically wants as many challengers as possible in the Challenger series.

In the absence of a protocol and the absence of a way of entering the AC, the owners of the existing AC75s should be entitled to make decisions on what to do with their boats. The choice is they can mothball them or continue to sail and improve them .  

Mostly the teams will keep their boats and then build a new boat to compare. New teams only allowed to build one boat will be at a disadvantage.

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6 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Just a funny consideration on the 1 - 1 match:

And Ben was pissed that he hadn't been invited to a press conference :D :D :D :D

Payback's a bitch. Apparently :wacko:

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15 hours ago, jaysper said:

I guess if you can't compete with fellow challengers, the easiest way is to write a stonking great cheque to ensure you are the only challenger.

Beats writing stonking great checks to your lawyers and flacks, eg for 2010.

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17 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Apparently Magnus is smoking Ratcliffe's cock as well as the ganga.

 

The good thing is he quotes someone I had not seen yet

 

Quote

Overnight, a statement issued by Christopher J. Culver, Commodore of the New York Yacht club and widely reported by Reuters stated: “A deed of gift match off the Isle of Wight would be a huge step in the wrong direction. The two previous Deed of Gift matches were distinct low points in the history of the America’s Cup. The New York Yacht Club will not support a Deed of Gift match or an America’s Cup competition that…is effectively open to only the defender and Challenger of Record

 

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All this chatter about AC37 has me confused... is this a rumour or what?

  1. AC37 will be a "One-On-One" match.
        So Ineos don't have to first beat other pesky Challengers?
  2. The match will be held on the Solent, England.
        So Ineos will have local knowledge advantage?
  3. ETNZ supports this concept.
        So someone can continue to pocket a hefty income?
  4. A strict Nationality rule.
        So existing team members can cop a pay cut, or opt out of the AC?

Do I have this completely wrong?  :angry:

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3 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

All this chatter about AC37 has me confused... is this a rumour or what?

  1. AC37 will be a "One-On-One" match.
        So Ineos don't have to first beat other pesky Challengers?
  2. The match will be held on the Solent, England.
        So Ineos will have local knowledge advantage?
  3. ETNZ supports this concept.
        So someone can continue to pocket a hefty income?
  4. A strict Nationality rule.
        So existing team members can cop a pay cut, or opt out of the AC?

Do I have this completely wrong?  :angry:

Nope, you nailed it.

But you also missed that apparently ETNZ are trying to impose the AC75 on the cup for the next two cycles.

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10 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Nope, you nailed it.

But you also missed that apparently ETNZ are trying to impose the AC75 on the cup for the next two cycles.

To be clear (and fair) to Dalts, it sounds like ETNZ are on the bones of their arse and he is presumably trying to save the team from oblivion.

My issue however is if you have a choice between this and oblivion, choose oblivion. At least you preserve your dignity and ethics.

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3 hours ago, strider470 said:

Nope.

When LR did help ETNZ, they already have (been forced to) quit the competition. And in 2013 they paid for knowledge, not to jump the CSS.

Forced? Or chose to?

it was a dick move to shorten the boats I fully agree but the successful transfer of what they had developed and passed to TNZ makes me think they might just have been the best prepared and technically innovative IF PB hadn’t had a sulk and quit and gone to Bermuda 

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26 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

All this chatter about AC37 has me confused... is this a rumour or what?

  1. AC37 will be a "One-On-One" match.
        So Ineos don't have to first beat other pesky Challengers?
  2. The match will be held on the Solent, England.
        So Ineos will have local knowledge advantage?
  3. ETNZ supports this concept.
        So someone can continue to pocket a hefty income?
  4. A strict Nationality rule.
        So existing team members can cop a pay cut, or opt out of the AC?

Do I have this completely wrong?  :angry:

You have #4 wrong.  The proposed rules have a carve-out to allow the teams from AC36 to remain the same. Jimmy can race for LR.  Deano can rave for AM.  

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11 minutes ago, jaysper said:

To be clear (and fair) to Dalts, it sounds like ETNZ are on the bones of their arse and he is presumably trying to save the team from oblivion.

My issue however is if you have a choice between this and oblivion, choose oblivion. At least you preserve your dignity and ethics.

Agree.  I know I'm a bit old fashioned, but I'd prefer honour to smelling like something long past it's use by date.

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13 minutes ago, jaysper said:

To be clear (and fair) to Dalts, it sounds like ETNZ are on the bones of their arse and he is presumably trying to save the team from oblivion.

My issue however is if you have a choice between this and oblivion, choose oblivion. At least you preserve your dignity and ethics.

Surely that means being unable to defend the cup? 

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1 minute ago, MaxHugen said:

Agree.  I know I'm a bit old fashioned, but I'd prefer honour to smelling like something long past it's use by date.

Honestly, he probably thinks he is doing the "right thing" and that is why so many people here refer to the cup as "the precious", because it has a corrupting force on people.

I'd love to think I could resist its effects, but I'm not sure.

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52 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Apparently Magnus is smoking Ratcliffe's cock as well as the ganga.

Go back a few blog entries, normal Magnus is back there, slightly bi polar in his love hate for Jim 

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1 minute ago, JALhazmat said:

Surely that means being unable to defend the cup? 

Why unable? They have a boat, they will certainly find a couple of guys and girls who can and want to sail this boat, and they have a YC that can organize 2 to 3 races. Sounds very able to me.

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5 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Forced? Or chose to?

it was a dick move to shorten the boats I fully agree but the successful transfer of what they had developed and passed to TNZ makes me think they might just have been the best prepared and technically innovative IF PB hadn’t had a sulk and quit and gone to Bermuda 

They chose to. Because Bertelli was pissed by that decision that turned all their advantage and already done developement into rubbish (almost)

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1 minute ago, JALhazmat said:

In that scenario what happens to the cup? 
 

Arm wrestly? Musical chairs?

Dunno, all I know is as a Kiwi I would prefer no ETNZ to this current behaviour.

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2 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

In that scenario what happens to the cup? 
 

They are not unable:

But if the RNZYS dissolves, another NZ YC will get the Cup and can defend. Even using the respective assets of the RNZYS (ETNZ, the boat). 

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The truth is there will be no 1 - 1 match. Sailing Anarchy management asked GD a favour, to tell some shit to the press in order to keep the SA AC forum alive for the months to come, because the lack of races would have been a disaster.

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9 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Why unable? They have a boat, they will certainly find a couple of guys and girls who can and want to sail this boat, and they have a YC that can organize 2 to 3 races. Sounds very able to me.

Ok, so they could theoretically defend it but without the sorts of resources they have had in the past the result would be a flashback to 2003.

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Just now, jaysper said:

Ok, so they could theoretically defend it but without the sorts of resources they have had in the past the result would be a flashback to 2003.

They will certainly lose.

Heck, you and I could defend if the RNZYS let us. Just accept any random, eligible challenge, set the dates for the race(s) and let the challenger race while we sit in a bar and have a drink. After two of these "races" the misery is over and someone else can have fun with the poisoned challenge.

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Question to the AC historians.

The challenge is opened to "any" YC. Up to now hip pockets have never been challenged into court because it was a way to organize a CSS where "any" YC could challenge. Do we have many exemple where a hip pocket challenger has been chosen in order to eliminate the other YCs and make their own private race ?

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2 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

They will certainly lose.

Heck, you and I could defend if the RNZYS let us. Just accept any random, eligible challenge, set the dates for the race(s) and let the challenger race while we sit in a bar and have a drink. After two of these "races" the misery is over and someone else can have fun with the poisoned challenge.

Heck no, I'd wanna be on the water.

Wheres DA-WOODY when you need it?

Whip off the motor and throw a bed sheet up.

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1 minute ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Question to the AC historians.

The challenge is opened to "any" YC. Up to now hip pockets have never been challenged into court because it was a way to organize a CSS where "any" YC could challenge. Do we have many exemple where a hip pocket challenger has been chosen in order to eliminate the other YCs and make their own private race ?

Well, Ernie's was pretty close wasn't it?

Sure others could turn up, but the rule was basically written that he could disqualify them for speeding if he wanted.

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27 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Question to the AC historians.

The challenge is opened to "any" YC. Up to now hip pockets have never been challenged into court because it was a way to organize a CSS where "any" YC could challenge. Do we have many exemple where a hip pocket challenger has been chosen in order to eliminate the other YCs and make their own private race ?

If I get it right the hip pocket challenge was only invented after the 1988 DoG challenge. 

Before that the NYYC didn’t pick a Challenger of Record. They issued the date of the next AC and put out rules for the CSS. Kind of like a Notice of Race for the AC. 
 

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3 hours ago, IPLore said:

Backdating the protocol to retroactively exclude a team on the bais that they kept on working on AC75 development seems a low probability occurrence to me.

I was also asking myself if they can actually implement a retroactive clause in a Protocol. As far as I know you can't be took to a court for something that wasn't illegal when you did it.
But not sure about the AC, and, in case, is the NYSC the court to appeal to?
Help of the serious guys/girls here is very welcome.

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43 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Question to the AC historians.

The challenge is opened to "any" YC. Up to now hip pockets have never been challenged into court because it was a way to organize a CSS where "any" YC could challenge. Do we have many exemple where a hip pocket challenger has been chosen in order to eliminate the other YCs and make their own private race ?

Unless I am misunderstanding you, the hip pocket challenger has been challenged successfully in court before. More specifically, in 2010. The Deed does not open the challenge to "any" YC, but rather has some requirements the YC has to meet. The YC SNEV chose as challenger after the 2007 AC did not meet the Deed requirements so GGYC challenged the selection of the CoR, and NY courts agreed and ruled the challenge void, which opened the way for GGYC to challenge and led to the DoG match.

I'm certainly not aware of any defender picking a challenger in order to eliminate other YCs and make their own private race, but I'd be surprised if that didn't happen given how many 1v1 matches there have been. In other words, can a defender have a favorite challenger? Sure. I imagine that happened many times. 

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Can someone explain why the stakeholders (UK & NZ) are trying to convince the world that the Isle of Wight Challenge would be the classical and best way to play the match? They should also explain why we have been playing multi challengers series for decades! 

We say this is "arrampicarsi sugli specchi" (climbing a mirror)

I am now understanding why so many people over this board is hating Ben Ainsle, the whining boy who was crying because he was left out of a press conference!

Now he is knocking out all the potential challengers from the show, so he can be the only dummy on the stage. What a loser.

 

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16 minutes ago, Dolphin65 said:

Can someone explain why the stakeholders (UK & NZ) are trying to convince the world that the Isle of Wight Challenge would be the classical and best way to play the match? They should also explain why we have been playing multi challengers series for decades! 

We say this is "arrampicarsi sugli specchi" (climbing a mirror)

I am now understanding why so many people over this board is hating Ben Ainsle, the whining boy who was crying because he was left out of a press conference!

Now he is knocking out all the potential challengers from the show, so he can be the only dummy on the stage. What a loser.

 

I'm not sure it's actually Ben's doing.

This will be at the whim of Ratcliffe and Dalton.

Ben may (or may not) agree with this - who the fuck knows.

However unless Ben has found a spare $100 Million down the back of his couch that he doesn't really need, then he will do exactly what the fuck Ratcliffe tells him to.

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1 hour ago, Thewas said:

I was also asking myself if they can actually implement a retroactive clause in a Protocol. As far as I know you can't be took to a court for something that wasn't illegal when you did it.
But not sure about the AC, and, in case, is the NYSC the court to appeal to?
Help of the serious guys/girls here is very welcome.

This is not a matter of law.

The Defender and Challenger might agree to all kinds of things that might preclude or constrain a potential participant, as long as they don't violate the Deed of Gift.

The point was that no one in their right mind would be spending money on development of any kind right now without knowing what the rules of the game are going to be.

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