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On 4/29/2021 at 11:16 PM, Sailbydate said:

That would be novel. An Aussie on an Aussie boat! ;-)

 

An Aussie boat would be novel.

The nation that finally pried the cup away from NYYC has not been seen in an Americas Cup challenge since 2000.  I had forgotten that Jimmy Spitbull drove that boat......he was 19 years old.   

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I’m not calling this out for the sake of ostracizing you, nor to play PC police on a forum that is notorious for the opposite of that. I could just hit ignore, delete or whatever. I’m calling this out

Hilarious to watch Kiwis who've been around since AC35 twist themselves into intellectual pretzels to give ETNZ a pass on what they screamed bloody murder about when Oracle did it. Even Oracle di

I have not been able to read all the comments in this forum but it seems that the possbility of a 1-to-1 match between New Zealand and Ineos is seriously been considered. For example, De Nora has conf

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On 4/28/2021 at 2:03 AM, Horn Rock said:

Nothing official, just gossip on that FB AC group. So might be complete crap. He has been campaigning a long time in the AC - since the Dogzilla match I think? So wouldn't be surprised if he's had enough.....

He might be offered a more senior position in ETNZ, even one day syndicate head. I have no prob with an Aussie in charge

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8 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

An Aussie boat would be novel.

The nation that finally pried the cup away from NYYC has not been seen in an Americas Cup challenge since 2000.  I had forgotten that Jimmy Spitbull drove that boat......he was 19 years old.   

Young Australia 2000 were hampered by using an old boat, and Syd Fischer's typical refusal to put up the money required for a competitive campaign. 

Jimmy probably learned a lot from it, however.

The LV Cup final that year (AmOne vs Prada) was some of the best LV Cup racing ever. I still watch some of those races on YouTube. For match racing fans, they were great.

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1 hour ago, accnick said:

Young Australia 2000 were hampered by using an old boat, and Syd Fischer's typical refusal to put up the money required for a competitive campaign. 

Jimmy probably learned a lot from it, however.

The LV Cup final that year (AmOne vs Prada) was some of the best LV Cup racing ever. I still watch some of those races on YouTube. For match racing fans, they were great.

Indeed. At 19 years old he got to steer in an AC challenge. Has there been a younger helm since?  Turned out to be an opportunity of a life time that launched his career . Even if poorly funded  SF provided an opportunity for a number of young Australians 

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Working for Syd was a trade-off. You knew you didn't have a chance to win, and you may or may not get paid anything, but you got your foot in the door in a way that you were unlikely to do with better-funded, higher-profile campaigns.

Helming an AC boat at 19  (he was actually 20 well before the start of racing)--even one doomed to failure--is a pretty good start on the AC path. There were other young up-and-coming sailors on that boat as well. Joey Newton was another one whose AC career started on that boat, and he's still at it. (Joey may have the most wicked sense of humor in the AC.)

AUS 31 wasn't a bad boat, but she was a full generation removed from most of the boats by 2000.

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@accnick Young Australia, AKA Sydney 95, was AUS 29 not 31.

31 was the One Australia boat that didn't sink ;)

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14 minutes ago, Jethrow said:

@accnick Young Australia, AKA Sydney 95, was AUS 29 not 31.

31 was the One Australia boat that didn't sink ;)

Syd started out with Sydney 95, but later got AUS 31.

Young Oz 2000

Sydney 95 ended up dead last in the 1995 CSS, but she did win some races. She wasn't any better by the time the 2000 event rolled around.

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8 minutes ago, accnick said:

Syd started out with Sydney 95, but later got AUS 31.

Well there you go. I was sure YA was the old Sydney 95 but I was out of the AC game after 1995 and lost track.

Thanks for that

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7 hours ago, Jethrow said:

Well there you go. I was sure YA was the old Sydney 95 but I was out of the AC game after 1995 and lost track.

Thanks for that

For a country with so much AC history and sailing talent, it’s a mystery to me why they have stayed away for so long. 

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26 minutes ago, mako23 said:

For a country with so much AC history and sailing talent, it’s a mystery to me why they have stayed away for so long. 

A handful of $quillionaires too. So, their reluctance to get involved baffles me as well.

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Not enough ROI I guess. Previous campaigns were similar to the early NZ ones where it was about winning for the country, these days not so much...

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2 hours ago, mako23 said:

For a country with so much AC history and sailing talent, it’s a mystery to me why they have stayed away for so long. 

 

1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

A handful of $quillionaires too. So, their reluctance to get involved baffles me as well.

It could be that Alan Bond's complete and utter downfall has something to do with the Billionaire's reluctance  .

 

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20 hours ago, Jethrow said:

Not enough ROI I guess. Previous campaigns were similar to the early NZ ones where it was about winning for the country, these days not so much...

Which country? two were represented on the kiwi boat probably a marginal call which one was the greater source of funding 

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Ah ah, coming from a kiwi could not even find a place on a boat to watch the AC at home is pretty ironic. 

You know you should really go back to primary school, because your reading and comprehension skills really are lacking. 

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19 hours ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

Can anyone (especially those from Italy, UK or USA) remind me who won the America's Cup this year?

United Arab Emirates but what was particularly galling is that there was not a single Emrati on the boat. The sailors were all hired guns for hire.

Fortunately going forward there will be a strict nationality rule which will prevent this kind of nonsense .  Hopefully it will also be restricted to Cat 1 amateur sailors so that the cup can return to its Corinthian   roots and all the professional sailors can pollute themselves chasing money and sail in that dreadful SailGP event. 

In the spirit of tradition, the Cup is returning to the Solent and we can get rid of the Challenger Selection series and get back to true match racing where a challenge is laid down and one yacht races another yacht.

;)

 

 

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20 hours ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

Can anyone (especially those from Italy, UK or USA) remind me who won the America's Cup this year?

Didn't you know? The AC doesn't matter. It isn't real racing, One Design racing is where its at. Even though these guys are clearly able to determine how to set their own boat up, even though these guys know what it takes to make a fast boat, when they go to that "dreadful SailGP event" where they have to deal with sub standard equipment, he who handles those ill conceived boats makes the best sailor in the world today.

New Zealand, yes, New Zealand, a tiny nation at the bottom of the world, has a HUGE technology advantage over those Huge countries, with the worlds biggest economies, and the most access to resource, its just unbelievable how unfair how much of an advantage NZ has over the rest of the world and their enormous economies.

One design negates NZ's enormous advantage, and they've been found wanting, their campaign is a lost cause after finishing 5th in their very first regatta, with no practice time, against other teams with at least one whole year behind them. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Hopefully it will also be restricted to Cat 1 amateur sailors so that the cup can return to its Corinthian   roots and all the professional sailors can pollute themselves chasing money and sail in that dreadful SailGP event. 

Its roots were never Corinthian, they always had paid hands sailing the boats, any nationality too.

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

The helm should always be a Corinthian. 

Of course

1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Didn't you know? The AC doesn't matter. It isn't real racing, One Design racing is where its at.

Strongly disagree. The AC is the ultimate tests of skill.  

here is the proof:

1, New Zealanders are the worlds best sailors and they have won the AC 6 out of the last 7 times. Any event so dominated by NZ can only be a test of skill.

2. New Zealand are able to do this despite our tiny size and our lack of money, so it is all down to brilliant sailing and the feedback that they give to the design team

3. LE was so envious of the AC, that he built an event to imitate it but because he is not a kiwi, it can never be as good as the real thing.  The only good thing about the SailGP is that it is run by a kiwi (of course) and will eventally be dominated b kiwis, who wont really give a damn because the AC is the only thing that matters

4. Ben Ainslie would gladly trade in all his gold medals for winning one race in the AC cup final,  

5. Olympics are one design yet nobody can remember the names of anyone who won a gold medal....but everyone knows the greats from the AC. Names like

Russell Coutts

Brad Butterworth

Chris Dickson

Ray Davies

Peter Burling

Blair Tuke

Sir Peter Blake

Dean Barker

 

 

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2 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Of course

Strongly disagree. The AC is the ultimate tests of skill.  

here is the proof:

1, New Zealanders are the worlds best sailors and they have won the AC 6 out of the last 7 times. Any event so dominated by NZ can only be a test of skill.

2. New Zealand are able to do this despite our tiny size and our lack of money, so it is all down to brilliant sailing and the feedback that they give to the design team

3. LE was so envious of the AC, that he built an event to imitate it but because he is not a kiwi, it can never be as good as the real thing.  The only good thing about the SailGP is that it is run by a kiwi (of course) and will eventally be dominated b kiwis, who wont really give a damn because the AC is the only thing that matters

4. Ben Ainslie would gladly trade in all his gold medals for winning one race in the AC cup final,  

5. Olympics are one design yet nobody can remember the names of anyone who won a gold medal....but everyone knows the greats from the AC. Names like

Russell Coutts

Brad Butterworth

Chris Dickson

Ray Davies

Peter Burling

Blair Tuke

Sir Peter Blake

Dean Barker

 

 

Wouldn't call Chris Dickson a "Great". A competitor? Yes. A Great? No. His boat was great, him, not so much. Dean Barker a "Great"? No. Again, his boat was great, the crew around him was great, himself, Not so much. 

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5 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Of course

Strongly disagree. The AC is the ultimate tests of skill.  

here is the proof:

1, New Zealanders are the worlds best sailors and they have won the AC 6 out of the last 7 times. Any event so dominated by NZ can only be a test of skill.

2. New Zealand are able to do this despite our tiny size and our lack of money, so it is all down to brilliant sailing and the feedback that they give to the design team

3. LE was so envious of the AC, that he built an event to imitate it but because he is not a kiwi, it can never be as good as the real thing.  The only good thing about the SailGP is that it is run by a kiwi (of course) and will eventally be dominated b kiwis, who wont really give a damn because the AC is the only thing that matters

4. Ben Ainslie would gladly trade in all his gold medals for winning one race in the AC cup final,  

5. Olympics are one design yet nobody can remember the names of anyone who won a gold medal....but everyone knows the greats from the AC. Names like

Russell Coutts

Brad Butterworth

Chris Dickson

Ray Davies

Peter Burling

Blair Tuke

Sir Peter Blake

Dean Barker

 

 

Reverse psychology?

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

Wouldn't call Chris Dickson a "Great". A competitor? Yes. A Great? No. His boat was great, him, not so much. Dean Barker a "Great"? No. Again, his boat was great, the crew around him was great, himself, Not so much. 

They were both great. You can tell from the accent. 

The crew were great as well......which proves my point (except Glenn Ashby who was merely "good")

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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Wouldn't call Chris Dickson a "Great". A competitor? Yes. A Great? No. His boat was great, him, not so much. Dean Barker a "Great"? No. Again, his boat was great, the crew around him was great, himself, Not so much. 

Deans great boat?  The boat that was hopelessly out developed and our raced leaving the crew totally exposed and carrying the can for the teams failure to design a winning boat? 
 

that’s not a great boat 

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6 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Deans great boat?  The boat that was hopelessly out developed and our raced leaving the crew totally exposed and carrying the can for the teams failure to design a winning boat? 
 

that’s not a great boat 

When they tipped it in the piss they were ahead.

Someone didn't let the runner off.  So that exposes the crew?

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12 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Deans great boat?  The boat that was hopelessly out developed and our raced leaving the crew totally exposed and carrying the can for the teams failure to design a winning boat? 
 

that’s not a great boat 

Ugh, No. NZL60 was great. The crew around him on NZL60 was great. Dean? not so much.

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17 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Wouldn't call Chris Dickson a "Great". A competitor? Yes. A Great? No. His boat was great, him, not so much. Dean Barker a "Great"? No. Again, his boat was great, the crew around him was great, himself, Not so much. 

How to Catch Big Fish from an Open Boat | Sport Fishing Magazine

Dont even have to chum the water around here.......just chuck a lure in and the rod is bending right away.

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30 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

 NZL60 was great. The crew around him on NZL60 was great. Dean?

You are so right !  NZL 60 followed a long tradition of brilliantly designed NZ boats.  But let us not forget that Dean won every race that he helmed in NZL 60 in the AC.  That is a remarkable record!

While Dean may not be the best sailor out of NZL ( a very tough hurdle ) .....he is further poof that kiwis are the greatest sailors in the world.

Coutts won gold and AC

Burling won gold and AC

In addition to his winning AC record in 1995, Dean Barker actually came very close to winning a gold medal in the Finn, only 12 places separated him from Ben Ainslie .

Long strand of brilliance.  Part of their success is because they are so good at giving feedback to the designers and altering the boat into a race winning package. 

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10 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

You are so right !  NZL 60 followed a long tradition of brilliantly designed NZ boats.  But let us not forget that Dean won every race that he helmed in NZL 60 in the AC.  That is a remarkable record!

While Dean may not be the best sailor out of NZL ( a very tough hurdle ) .....he is further poof that kiwis are the greatest sailors in the world.

Coutts won gold and AC

Burling won gold and AC

In addition to his winning AC record in 1995, Dean Barker actually came very close to winning a gold medal in the Finn, only 12 places separated him from Ben Ainslie .

Long strand of brilliance.  Part of their success is because they are so good at giving feedback to the designers and altering the boat into a race winning package. 

Sarcasm...You're doing it wrong.

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ETNZ put on a very cool "Thank you" event last night for suppliers, the crew were way more relaxed this time!

They start the deep dive review this week, very interesting to hear them openly share the need for a vastly different defender series and just how fast Te Rehatai was capable of......"The speeds thrown about in the media were close to accurate"...

 

Reading above, some of the team exit rumours are not true according to a few I spoke to last night. 

 

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On 5/3/2021 at 9:21 PM, Forourselves said:

New Zealand, yes, New Zealand, a tiny nation at the bottom of the world, has a HUGE technology advantage

 

Again this stupid narrative that only convince one eyed kiwis. I don't know why you proud so much the AC which is about the best designer, and there is none that matters in kiwiland.

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50 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Again this stupid narrative that only convince one eyed kiwis. I don't know why you proud so much the AC which is about the best designer, and there is none that matters in kiwiland.

Its about the best design team. No one designer is responsible for the design of the AC boats. Its about design teams. And NZ has the best design team today. If the NZ design team had designed the F50 it would be much faster and much more controllable package than the current one.

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Its about the best design team. No one designer is responsible for the design of the AC boats. Its about design teams. And NZ has the best design team today. If the NZ design team had designed the F50 it would be much faster and much more controllable package than the current one.

The AC design team is nothing without the genious behind, if you don't have Verdier this time you lose the cup, square and simple.

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

The AC design team is nothing without the genious behind, if you don't have Verdier this time you lose the cup, square and simple.

And that Genius is Dan Bernasconi. Verdier drew a picture on a piece of paper, gave it to Bernasconi and said “what do you think?” Dan said “Ill make it happen”.

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7 hours ago, Forourselves said:

And that Genius is Dan Bernasconi. Verdier drew a picture on a piece of paper, gave it to Bernasconi and said “what do you think?” Dan said “Ill make it happen”.

The kiwi team without outside designers won't win the AC, you should focus on SailGP and races where design don't matter.

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16 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

The kiwi team without outside designers won't win the AC, you should focus on SailGP and races where design don't matter.

And teams without Kiwi’s won’t win the Cup either.

without Kiwi’s SailGP doesn’t exist. Think about that.

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11 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

And teams without Kiwi’s won’t win the Cup either.

without Kiwi’s SailGP doesn’t exist. Think about that.

On current form, Sail GP without Kiwis will need some other team to finish last..  

Please extrapolate your theory that kiwis were entirely responsible for the design rule for the AC50, the hosting and running of the Bermuda cup, then the evolution of the boat into the F50 and entire funding of the development and Sail GP event. 
 

but allowing your theory that the F50 is a shit boat that would make it the fault of Kiwis would it not? After all they brought it into existence. 
 

which way do you want it? 

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

On current form, Sail GP without Kiwis will need some other team to finish last..  

Please extrapolate your theory that kiwis were entirely responsible for the design rule for the AC50, the hosting and running of the Bermuda cup, then the evolution of the boat into the F50 and entire funding of the development and Sail GP event. 
 

but allowing your theory that the F50 is a shit boat that would make it the fault of Kiwis would it not? After all they brought it into existence. 
 

which way do you want it? 

If you think one regatta wins or loses the series you should give yourself a good swift uppercut.

Coutts is a Kiwi. It was his idea, his execution. Without Coutts SailGP doesn’t exist.

As for the AC50... what? I never said anything about the AC50 rule. 
Mike Drummond (another Kiwi) and Mark Turner (again, Kiwi) are responsible for the evolution of the AC50 to the F50. 
Yes, remember Mike Drummond was instrumental in the development of the “Hula” and that was rubbish. The Oracle AC50 was rubbish comparatively. So yes, there are Kiwi design teams who’ve come up with some shitty concepts. NZL82 being one, the F50 being another. There are others that have come up with some revolutionary concepts. Aotearoa being one, Te Aihe and Te Rehutai being others.

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

On current form, Sail GP without Kiwis will need some other team to finish last..  

Please extrapolate your theory that kiwis were entirely responsible for the design rule for the AC50, the hosting and running of the Bermuda cup, then the evolution of the boat into the F50 and entire funding of the development and Sail GP event. 
 

but allowing your theory that the F50 is a shit boat that would make it the fault of Kiwis would it not? After all they brought it into existence. 
 

which way do you want it? 

If you think one regatta wins or loses the series you should give yourself a good swift uppercut.

Coutts is a Kiwi. It was his idea, his execution. Without Coutts SailGP doesn’t exist.

As for the AC50... what? I never said anything about the AC50 rule. 
Mike Drummond (another Kiwi) and Mark Turner (again, Kiwi) are responsible for the evolution of the AC50 to the F50. 
Yes, remember Mike Drummond was instrumental in the development of the “Hula” and that was rubbish. The Oracle AC50 was rubbish comparatively. So yes, there are Kiwi design teams who’ve come up with some shitty concepts. NZL82 being one, the F50 being another. There are others that have come up with some revolutionary concepts. KZ7 being one, Aotearoa, Te Aihe and Te Rehutai being others.

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And without old Larry green lighting it it would have gone no where. 
 

nice to see you have admitted that the F50sbeing shit is the responsibility of your countrymen though :-)  the way you were going on before it was everyone else’s fault. :lol: 
 

kiwi designed boat, kiwi crew, shitty result. 

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On 5/5/2021 at 12:42 PM, WakaNZ said:

They start the deep dive review this week, very interesting to hear them openly share the need for a vastly different defender series and just how fast Te Rehatai was capable of......"The speeds thrown about in the media were close to accurate"...

It was striking how gutted Dan B seemed after his team's design winning in the light that they didn't get to show off how fast the rocket ship would go when she was fully powered. 

So was i.

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

It was striking how gutted Dan B seemed after his team's design winning in the light that they didn't get to show off how fast the rocket ship would go when she was fully powered. 

So was i.

I think everyone was to be honest, what is odd though was the agreement by ETNZ to lower  wind limits given the designers wanting to see it ripping up range., politics i guess 

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3 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

I think everyone was to be honest, what is odd though was the agreement by ETNZ to lower  wind limits given the designers wanting to see it ripping up range., politics i guess 

Or maybe collective fear of the unknown. Bet they take wind limits a bit up-range next time, including raising the lower limit. Nobody really wants to see these beasts stumble around in Archimedean mode trying to stay out of each other's way. It isn't a pretty sight.

An early decision on wind limits is likely to have a significant impact on design decisions. Same goes for setting the length and width of the courses. It was like watching jet fighters maneuver within a pinball machine on the increasingly narrower courses of AC 36.

You don't have much choice other to bang corners on courses this narrow.

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13 minutes ago, accnick said:

Or maybe collective fear of the unknown. Bet they take wind limits a bit up-range next time, including raising the lower limit. Nobody really wants to see these beasts stumble around in Archimedean mode trying to stay out of each other's way. It isn't a pretty sight.

An early decision on wind limits is likely to have a significant impact on design decisions. Same goes for setting the length and width of the courses. It was like watching jet fighters maneuver within a pinball machine on the increasingly narrower courses of AC 36.

You don't have much choice other to bang corners on courses this narrow.

Bold: I tend to disagree, and from what I've read here, I'm not alone.

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10 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

And without old Larry green lighting it it would have gone no where. 
 

nice to see you have admitted that the F50sbeing shit is the responsibility of your countrymen though :-)  the way you were going on before it was everyone else’s fault. :lol: 
 

kiwi designed boat, kiwi crew, shitty result. 

Not at all. Like I said... NZL81 and 82 were shitty boats designed by a desperate design team that had seen their team raised by a billionaire. 
It is what it is.

But Nice to see you’ve finally admitted the F50 is a shitty boat.

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On 5/3/2021 at 8:21 PM, Forourselves said:

Didn't you know? The AC doesn't matter. It isn't real racing, One Design racing is where its at. Even though these guys are clearly able to determine how to set their own boat up, even though these guys know what it takes to make a fast boat, when they go to that "dreadful SailGP event" where they have to deal with sub standard equipment, he who handles those ill conceived boats makes the best sailor in the world today.

New Zealand, yes, New Zealand, a tiny nation at the bottom of the world, has a HUGE technology advantage over those Huge countries, with the worlds biggest economies, and the most access to resource, its just unbelievable how unfair how much of an advantage NZ has over the rest of the world and their enormous economies.

One design negates NZ's enormous advantage, and they've been found wanting, their campaign is a lost cause after finishing 5th in their very first regatta, with no practice time, against other teams with at least one whole year behind them. 

 

 

It is silly, some us go away for a while to go on with our life.  We come back to see if there is any news about the Cup and you are still here just blabbering away like some crazy man in a straight jacket....  nothing new, just the same old shit.  

 

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3 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

It is silly, some us go away for a while to go on with our life.  We come back to see if there is any news about the Cup and you are still here just blabbering away like some crazy man in a straight jacket....  nothing new, just the same old shit.  

 

Yet here you are... back for more like the orphan child Oliver asking “please sir I’d like some more”

 

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It is education reading what you write 4U. Firstly I had thought that when my parents bought me a 15 year old dinghy and I beat those kids with new ones, I had imagined I was the better sailor. Now, I know I wasn't because I had no input into the design and they might have.

Secondly I now know that being an imbecile is no barrier to a active participation in social media.

 

When we say people are the best sailors, we, the 99.99999% of the world that isn't you, mean that they are best at sailing. Not the best at designing boats. When sailors are in the same boats that is easier to tell. If you give them boats that are different speeds that is harder. Understand?

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Call me biased, call me a fanboy, whatever. I don’t care. I am a fanboy, and I am biased.

Do I think ETNZ can do no wrong? No. Do I think they’ve done anything wrong to date? No.

Sport is about supporting a team. Backing them through thick and thin. NZ is an Uber passionate sporting nation. All Black supporters can be and often are fanatical. We support our teams through thick and thin. The good times and the bad times. We’re nothing compared to English or Euro Football fans. Those fans are fanatical all of the time. That’s what sport is all about. Pick a team and stick by them through thick and thin. AC fans that say “I have no dog in the race” or “I don’t have a team I’m just here for the technology” bullshit. You have a team, you’re just too scared to admit it. At least guys like Strider are openly supportive of their team through the good times and the bad. But you other dickheads, if you’re going to bag Dalton, Kiwis or ETNZ you need to man up and pick a team or STFU.

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18 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

It is education reading what you write 4U. Firstly I had thought that when my parents bought me a 15 year old dinghy and I beat those kids with new ones, I had imagined I was the better sailor. Now, I know I wasn't because I had no input into the design and they might have.

Secondly I now know that being an imbecile is no barrier to a active participation in social media.

 

When we say people are the best sailors, we, the 99.99999% of the world that isn't you, mean that they are best at sailing. Not the best at designing boats. When sailors are in the same boats that is easier to tell. If you give them boats that are different speeds that is harder. Understand?

Whatever dickhead. And what constitutes being the “best sailor”? Usually when you win the top event in the sport (The Olympics and the AC- twice)  as well as multiple world championships, Moth world championships and world sailor of the year award more than once that means you can be considered the best sailor in the world They’ve done both, so they can be called the best sailor. But go ahead, discard all of those achievements for some bush league series that’s only been around for a year. 
 

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Whatever dickhead. And what constitutes being the “best sailor”? Usually when you win the top event in the sport (The Olympics and the AC- twice)  as well as multiple world championships, Moth world championships and world sailor of the year award more than once that means you can be considered the best sailor in the world They’ve done both, so they can be called the best sailor. But go ahead, discard all of those achievements for some bush league series that’s only been around for a year. 
 

As I have already pointed out, that hardly makes them unique. Ainslie has 4 Olympic golds, far more world championships and an AC, so in titles he is well ahead. But I don't think that proves anything. Sailing in identical boats against one another does. It doesn't matter whether it is bush league (and since it has a lot of the best inshore sailors in the world it is facile to term it such). The point is they are sailing on equal terms against each other.

 

If burling and co are the best, then they will start beating Slingsby and Ainslie and Outerridge. If they don't, they aren't. It's as simple as that

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17 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Whatever dickhead. And what constitutes being the “best sailor”? Usually when you win the top event in the sport (The Olympics and the AC- twice)  as well as multiple world championships, Moth world championships and world sailor of the year award more than once that means you can be considered the best sailor in the world They’ve done both, so they can be called the best sailor. But go ahead, discard all of those achievements for some bush league series that’s only been around for a year. 
 

Enigmatic also says that the best sailors in the world have won the top events in the sport. 

Honestly 4selves your definition comes across as more narrow....they have to be a world champion and from New Zealand. No worries.....you are a keen and blindfold kiwi sports fan and that is okay with me.

All Enigmatic is saying is that it is fun to watch these same top AC sailors racing against each other in one design. I agree. It will be compelling stuff. No need to call him names.

According to your definition there are 6 skippers in the Sail GP that meet your criteria of some of the best sailors in the world. They have won a combination or either Olympic Gold (4 skippers), World Championships in major one design classes (Olympic class, Moth etc  5 skippers) or won the AC ( 3 skippers,) , or sailor of the year ( 4 of the skippers in SailGP have won the Rolex Sailor of the year. One of them has won it an amazing 4 times over a course of 25 years !)

Here is where I agree with you.

1. Do I think that Peter Burling is amongst the very best in the world and a generational talent?  Yes I do. For a myriad of reasons, not just the AC.  The 49er gold and the Moth worlds and 6 x 49er worlds are indisputable signs of a prodigious talent.    I happen to think that we live in a golden age where there are some incredible talents that are around at the same time.  I only wish Paul Elvstrom could see this.  I met PE many year ago as a school kid and I knew I was in the presence of someone special. 

2. Do I think that winning the AC is just a design competition?  No I agree with you that the sailor makes a difference.  I also agree that the skill set of an AC sailor is broader than some other disciplines because the technical content is very high.  However I think even the most talented AC sailor in the world cannot win the AC without a brilliant design team.  The sailor contributes feedback but the outcome of a design has many variables that are beyond the scope of even the best sailor. Its a bit like F1. I think Lewis Hamilton's feedback to his engineers is world class, but LH really does not understand much of the technology in his engine and aero.

 

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17 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

If burling and co are the best, then they will start beating Slingsby and Ainslie and Outerridge. If they don't, they aren't. It's as simple as that

I agree with almost everything you say...but not this.

The Sail GP will be just one data point.  The best sailor  is a subtle and difficult thing to determine.  We start off by knowing that both Ainslie and Burling are prodigious talents.  Who beat who may come down to the tiniest of things.  Lets wait and see before we credit this event as determinant. 

For example. Nathan Outteridge beat Peter Burling in the Olympics, winning Gold while PB got silver.  4 years later they reversed with PB in gold and NO in silver. 5 years later the positions reversed again with NO beating PB in the GP50. Who is the best sailor?

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10 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

 

I agree with almost everything you say...but not this.

The Sail GP will be just one data point.  The best sailor  is a subtle and difficult thing to determine.  We start off by knowing that both Ainslie and Burling are prodigious talents.  Who beat who may come down to the tiniest of things.  Lets wait and see before we credit this event as determinant. 

For example. Nathan Outteridge beat Peter Burling in the Olympics, winning Gold while PB got silver.  4 years later they reversed with PB in gold and NO in silver. 5 years later the positions reversed again with NO beating PB in the GP50. Who is the best sailor?

Agreed, and if it is variable like that then we will not know. But if Burlings crew doesn't beat Slingsby or Ainslie in any of this sailgp series then I think we will know they aren't as good. Hence what I said. 

 

There is some luck, but in identical boats the better sailors win more consistently

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Whatever dickhead

gOLLY, Bro chill, 

Sailing is a wonderful sport for its diversity, and only 0.5% of that gets coverage, but there are legends everywhere. In the A's we've got Shaw, Heemskerk, Landenberger, Brewin all at the top of their game. I'm pretty sure they'd give any sailor worth their salt a run for their money. Every class and every scene will have this going on...

God forbid a small number of incredibly privileged kiwi men define success in the entire sport. I'm proud of NZ as a sailing nation but in the sport that's the last thing I'd wish to highlight. 

Luck also plays a massive part in getting olympic selection to kick off the pathway to becoming whatever a 'best sailor' is. NZ is a particularly lucky place as we have so few people with massive public access to sailing, not no mention an economy that can support people investing in recreation. It's great, but whether it's a good idea to belittle other people because you are fortunate enough to be a kiwi I'm not so sure. There are good people everywhere. Try to be one of them. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Revelry said:

gOLLY, Bro chill, 

Sailing is a wonderful sport for its diversity, and only 0.5% of that gets coverage, but there are legends everywhere. In the A's we've got Shaw, Heemskerk, Landenberger, Brewin all at the top of their game. I'm pretty sure they'd give any sailor worth their salt a run for their money. Every class and every scene will have this going on...

God forbid a small number of incredibly privileged kiwi men define success in the entire sport. I'm proud of NZ as a sailing nation but in the sport that's the last thing I'd wish to highlight. 

Luck also plays a massive part in getting olympic selection to kick off the pathway to becoming whatever a 'best sailor' is. NZ is a particularly lucky place as we have so few people with massive public access to sailing, not no mention an economy that can support people investing in recreation. It's great, but whether it's a good idea to belittle other people because you are fortunate enough to be a kiwi I'm not so sure. There are good people everywhere. Try to be one of them. 

 

LOvely message. It makes me want to visit NZ

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2 minutes ago, Revelry said:

gOLLY, Bro chill, 

Sailing is a wonderful sport for its diversity, and only 0.5% of that gets coverage, but there are legends everywhere. In the A's we've got Shaw, Heemskerk, Landenberger, Brewin all at the top of their game. I'm pretty sure they'd give any sailor worth their salt a run for their money. Every class and every scene will have this going on...

God forbid a small number of incredibly privileged kiwi men define success in the entire sport. I'm proud of NZ as a sailing nation but in the sport that's the last thing I'd wish to highlight. 

Luck also plays a massive part in getting olympic selection to kick off the pathway to becoming whatever a 'best sailor' is. NZ is a particularly lucky place as we have so few people with massive public access to sailing, not no mention an economy that can support people investing in recreation. It's great, but whether it's a good idea to belittle other people because you are fortunate enough to be a kiwi I'm not so sure. There are good people everywhere. Try to be one of them. 

 

I’m not belittling anyone. If anything it’s the other way round. How many posts have we seen from people here about Kiwi’s this, Kiwis that, Kiwis can’t win without outside blah blah I realise they’re just trolling, but I’m not gonna let it slip because they’re just trolls that should be ignored. No way. Keep them honest. There is so much stock put into SailGP by those that are still bitter about the Kiwis winning the cup. A shit boat is a shit boat whether it’s identical or not. SailGP doesn’t matter. Never has, never will. It’s nothing more than Larry’s little plaything till he eventually gets bored. 

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

I There is so much stock put into SailGP by those that are still bitter about the Kiwis winning the cup.

This is all in your imagination.  There is hardly anyone who is bitter about the kiwis winning the cup. Most congratulate NZ . The same people who congratulate NZ also enjoy Sail GP.   For some reason you do not like Sail GP.  Dont watch it. Let it go. Let others enjoy it.  It shouldn't even be on this thread anyway.

The topic is the 37th AC. Different event. Different boats,

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Not at all. Like I said... NZL81 and 82 were shitty boats designed by a desperate design team that had seen their team raised by a billionaire. 
It is what it is.

But Nice to see you’ve finally admitted the F50 is a shitty boat.

Your words not mine. Glad to see you are now so confused with your anti F50 tripe you have confused yourself who’s fault it was they got smoked in Bda

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7 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

I think everyone was to be honest, what is odd though was the agreement by ETNZ to lower  wind limits given the designers wanting to see it ripping up range., politics i guess 

There would have been a lot of lay days if we had waited for say, 12 kt lower. Wait for it, next cycle will be top of range every day.

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