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The AC 37 has started, news and rumours


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My big Question:

Will the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron/Team New Zealand stick to their self imposed Deadline of September 17th 2021 to announce the Venue for AC37?

What are your thoughts?

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

My big Question:

Will the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron/Team New Zealand stick to their self imposed Deadline of September 17th 2021 to announce the Venue for AC37?

What are your thoughts?

If they make an announcement on September 17, it will be because it is in Auckland. 

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34 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

If they make an announcement on September 17, it will be because it is in Auckland. 

I don't think the Cup will be in Auckland unless Jacinda Ardern has assured Grant Dalton of Open Borders come 2023 or 2024.

New Zealand cannot afford another AC without letting Fans from all over the world back in.

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14 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I don't think the Cup will be in Auckland unless Jacinda Ardern has assured Grant Dalton of Open Borders come 2023 or 2024.

New Zealand cannot afford another AC without letting Fans from all over the world back in.

5,000,000 Kiwis cannot be vaccinated by then?  Come on Cindy!

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5 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

My big Question:

Will the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron/Team New Zealand stick to their self imposed Deadline of September 17th 2021 to announce the Venue for AC37?

What are your thoughts?

"On or around September 17th"

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33 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

"On or around September 17th"

When the RNZYS announced the RYS as Challenger of Record on March 19th of this year they also announced that the Venue would be made public within 6 months. I hope they stick to that and not keep potential new Teams in the Dark!

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40 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

When the RNZYS announced the RYS as Challenger of Record on March 19th of this year they also announced that the Venue would be made public within 6 months. I hope they stick to that and not keep potential new Teams in the Dark!

If it is their intention for UK to be the only defender then the timeline for releasing the venue location then becomes a marketing exercise rather than a need for fair distribution of information.

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14 minutes ago, Jethrow said:

If it is their intention for UK to be the only defender then the timeline for releasing the venue location then becomes a marketing exercise rather than a need for fair distribution of information.

Nah, the 1 vs 1 Challenge is off the table I think.

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1 minute ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Nah, the 1 vs 1 Challenge is off the table I think.

I hope so...

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TE has been hearing, and THutch said today he has too, that there may be separate dates for the Prot/Rule and the venue. One in Sep and another in November. I forget which was which. 

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20 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

TE has been hearing, and THutch said today he has too, that there may be separate dates for the Prot/Rule and the venue. One in Sep and another in November. I forget which was which. 

That had always been the published intention. I believe venue in September, Protocol in November. The class rule was not mentioned in the original release giving those dates, as I  recall.

They have about 100 interpretations of the first rule to address in one way or another in writing the updated rule.

I think I have that original release on my laptop, and will check tomorrow. Working from my phone right now.

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

TE has been hearing, and THutch said today he has too, that there may be separate dates for the Prot/Rule and the venue. One in Sep and another in November. I forget which was which. 

Yeah,

The Intention was to announce the Venue within 6 months of AC36 being finished and announce the AC37 Protocol within 9 months.

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As TH said, he has been in consistent contact with the Defender, he has open dialogue with the defender, so one has to believe AM isn't the only team that is in contact with the Defender.

So there are no teams "in the dark"

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

As TH said, he has been in consistent contact with the Defender, he has open dialogue with the defender, so one has to believe AM isn't the only team that is in contact with the Defender.

So there are no teams "in the dark"

There are! I don't believe TH otherwise he would have known the Venue by now!

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16 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Thats your problem.

Why would Grant Dalton tell Terry Hutchinson where the next AC would be held after the "Stunt" the NYYC pulled by announcing a premature Challenge? Tell us Mister Forourselves!!!

If I was Grant Dalton I would be telling them "Piss Off"!!!

Being in a consistent contact doesn't automatically mean T-Hutch knows the Venue for AC37!

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9 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Why would Grant Dalton tell Terry Hutchinson where the next AC would be held after the "Stunt" the NYYC pulled by announcing a premature Challenge? Tell us Mister Forourselves!!!

If I was Grant Dalton I would be telling them "Piss Off"!!!

Being in a consistent contact doesn't automatically mean T-Hutch knows the Venue for AC37!

None of that matters anyway. The whore is to busy shopping for a paycheck. 

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12 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Why would Grant Dalton tell Terry Hutchinson where the next AC would be held after the "Stunt" the NYYC pulled by announcing a premature Challenge? Tell us Mister Forourselves!!!

If I was Grant Dalton I would be telling them "Piss Off"!!!

Being in a consistent contact doesn't automatically mean T-Hutch knows the Venue for AC37!

He hasn't because there's nothing to tell yet. No decision, no confirmation, no information to pass on, and thats exactly what Hutchinson said.

Hutchinson doesn't know the venue! He said that during the interview! 

Dalton probably doesn't know yet. 

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12 hours ago, Monkey said:

None of that matters anyway. The whore is to busy shopping for a paycheck. 

Cry me a river. We won, we do what ever the fuck we want.

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

He hasn't because there's nothing to tell yet. No decision, no confirmation, no information to pass on, and thats exactly what Hutchinson said.

Hutchinson doesn't know the venue! He said that during the interview! 

Dalton probably doesn't know yet. 

You can Add “No money “ to that list of accomplishments too. 

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10 hours ago, Forourselves said:

He hasn't because there's nothing to tell yet. No decision, no confirmation, no information to pass on, and thats exactly what Hutchinson said.

Hutchinson doesn't know the venue! He said that during the interview! 

Dalton probably doesn't know yet. 

Keep believing that shit. Grant Dalton knows exatly the Venue by now when they have a Deadline of Sept 17th to announce it.

I hope the next Venue is a Venue that has more wind. Rewatching some Match Clips from Auckland this year it became almost unwatchable to see these cool Boats drifting along in sub 10 knots of wind for the most part.

It doesn't have to be 20 knots but I want to see these Boats ripping in 13-17 knots.

Say what you want but IMO San Francisco was the best Venue wind-wise since we got into the foiling sheme of things. It wasn't so much because the Americans defended the Cup there but more because we had a consistent 16-20 knots of wind for the most part. San Francisco is just an insane wind machine. The Valleys surrounding the City heat up and it sucks in the cold air from the Pacific creating that consistent Sea Breeze.

Because Auckland has such a narrow stretch of water there isn't a lot to heat up in the Summer Months.

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25 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

You really are a hater if you think they have no money.

Well they should probs stops hawking the venue if they are that flush eh? 

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

Well they should probs stops hawking the venue if they are that flush eh? 

Why? Daltons first responsibility as CEO, is to the team and ensuring the teams future. His 2nd responsibility is to win the Cup. Those are Daltons priorities. If holding the event in NZ fulfils those obligations, fine, if it doesn’t, it’s Daltons responsibility to ensure he negotiates a deal elsewhere that does. Emotion aside, that’s really all there is to it.

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Why?

Because it looks like a cunty little money grab holding everyone hostage because they can’t budget and succession plan correctly. 

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Only the 4idiot could actually believe Team ? is flush with cash. Grumpy has resorted to desperate measures, and sold out his country in the process. You don’t do that unless you’re cash strapped, or an asshole like Larry. 

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Why? Daltons first responsibility as CEO, is to the team and ensuring the teams future. His 2nd responsibility is to win the Cup.

I guess that's a diff between NZ and US "sports."

George Steinbrenner's first objective was for the Yankees to win.  If that meant people and managers had to go, they got sacked in favor of people who might give a better chance of winning. That included general managers and presidents.

Tangential question, actually, who owns the team Dalton is CEO of?  Who made him CEO? What is its charter? Are team members also owners? 

See below from Wikipedia for results of such an objective.

Screenshot_20210808-195622_Chrome.jpg

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2 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

George Steinbrenner's first objective was for the Yankees to win. 

and yet he hired George Costanza to the senior staff! :D

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7 hours ago, Monkey said:

Only the 4idiot could actually believe Team ? is flush with cash. Grumpy has resorted to desperate measures, and sold out his country in the process. You don’t do that unless you’re cash strapped, or an asshole like Larry. 

Think about it. If they had no money, they'd be in no position to be turning money down. They're in a position to turn the Government offer down because they have money, not because they don't have it. Christ, its very very simple. If you're going to bargain with someone, as Dalton is now, you have to have something to bargain with. If Dalton went to a potential host and said, "okay, this is what we're asking for" the first thing that potential host is going to ask is "whats in it for us?", and if Dalton turns around and says "nothing cos we're broke" he's gonna get laughed out of the room" so Dalton obviously does have the money, or enough money to at least move forward, otherwise he'd be stupid to go to potential hosts as he'd have no bargaining chips. You can call Dalton a lot of things but stupid isn't one of them.

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4 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

I guess that's a diff between NZ and US "sports."

George Steinbrenner's first objective was for the Yankees to win.  If that meant people and managers had to go, they got sacked in favor of people who might give a better chance of winning. That included general managers and presidents.

Tangential question, actually, who owns the team Dalton is CEO of?  Who made him CEO? What is its charter? Are team members also owners? 

See below from Wikipedia for results of such an objective.

Screenshot_20210808-195622_Chrome.jpg

Stephen Tindall is Chairman of the Board of Directors of Team NZ. Tindall and Bob Field make up the Board and Matteo De Nora is Team Principle.

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Stephen Tindall is Chairman of the Board of Directors of Team NZ. Tindall and Bob Field make up the Board and Matteo De Nora is Team Principle.

Sir Stephen resigned as Chairman and Board Member of Team New Zealand, back in June 2021.

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Stephen Tindall is Chairman of the Board of Directors of Team NZ. Tindall and Bob Field make up the Board and Matteo De Nora is Team Principle.

Didn’t Grant CC you in the mail? telling you tindall was off? 

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19 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Didn’t Grant CC you in the mail? telling you tindall was off? 

Yep, so that leaves Greg Horton and Grant Dalton as nominal Shareholders (owners) of the team.

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If anyone is interested, directors of Team New Zealand https://app.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/582931/directors

 

Full legal name:Grant Stanley DALTON
Residential Address:14 Crescent Road, Parnell, Auckland, 1052 , New Zealand
Appointment Date:18 Mar 2019
 
 

Full legal name:Robert Leslie FIELD
Residential Address:532 Lees Road, Rd 5, Feilding, 4775 , New Zealand
Appointment Date:01 Oct 2014
 
 

Full legal name:Gregory Bernard HORTON
Residential Address:712 Remuera Road, Remuera, Auckland, 1050 , New Zealand
Appointment Date:31 May 2021
 
 

Full legal name:Kevin Basil SHOEBRIDGE
Residential Address:3 Selby Square, Saint Marys Bay, Auckland, 1011 , New Zealand
Appointment Date:18 Mar 2019
 

 

and shareholders:

 

 
Grant Stanley DALTON
 
14 Crescent Road, Parnell, Auckland, 1052 , New Zealand
 
Gregory Bernard HORTON
 
712 Remuera Road, Remuera, Auckland, 1050 , New Zealand
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So GD is a co-owner and director and CEO.  It's a company, basically? 

So a company whose primary objective is self preservation and jobs and secondary objective is to win the AC, up for grabs by highest bidding venue (and possibly yacht club)? No real unbreakable tie to RNZYS?  

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30 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

So GD is a co-owner and director and CEO.  It's a company, basically? 

So a company whose primary objective is self preservation and jobs and secondary objective is to win the AC, up for grabs by highest bidding venue (and possibly yacht club)? No real unbreakable tie to RNZYS?  

A company's primary duty is to its shareholders. It does explain a lot

Doesn't seem to have any non-execs either

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There's a company registered at NZ Companies House as Team New Zealand. Clearly, gives the names of the directors, there is more than a random relationship to the sailing team of that name. It isn't legally owned by or controlled by RNZYS. I don't think that should be a surprise to anyone.

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3 hours ago, dogwatch said:

There's a company registered at NZ Companies House as Team New Zealand. Clearly, gives the names of the directors, there is more than a random relationship to the sailing team of that name. It isn't legally owned by or controlled by RNZYS. I don't think that should be a surprise to anyone.

Hamish Ross explained it in some detail recently, the principal 'owner' is Matteo at the back end of the trail. 

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If "win the America's Cup" isn't Job 1 and "self preservation" is, no wonder some on here were "supportive" of S+S.  They had the same job.

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Hamish Ross explained it in some detail recently, the principal 'owner' is Matteo at the back end of the trail. 

I think the 4idiot is the only one left who doesn’t realize it’s EMIRATES Team “insert your name here.”  Just like Larry sold out his team of mercenaries, Matteo is leasing out his pet sailors. 

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26 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I think the 4idiot is the only one left who doesn’t realize it’s EMIRATES Team “insert your name here.”  Just like Larry sold out his team of mercenaries, Matteo is leasing out his pet sailors. 

It hasn't really been a Kiwi team since they had the American helmsman. At least we can dispense with all of the Kiwi superiority in all things shit finally. Although clarkey will go on forever.

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9 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

It hasn't really been a Kiwi team since they had the American helmsman. At least we can dispense with all of the Kiwi superiority in all things shit finally. Although clarkey will go on forever.

They’re all international teams now. I feel bad for you guys they sold out. 

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5 hours ago, Monkey said:

I think the 4idiot is the only one left who doesn’t realize it’s EMIRATES Team “insert your name here.”  Just like Larry sold out his team of mercenaries, Matteo is leasing out his pet sailors. 

Not true...

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6 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Not true...

When the Seattle SuperSonics sold out and went to bumf*ck Oklahoma, they instantly changed their name. Obviously. 

What’s wrong with Emirates Team Cork? 

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9 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

If "win the America's Cup" isn't Job 1 and "self preservation" is, no wonder some on here were "supportive" of S+S.  They had the same job.

There is no winning the America's Cup if you don't have a team. Therefor, the team MUST come first.

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8 hours ago, Monkey said:

They’re all international teams now. I feel bad for you guys they sold out. 

The All Blacks are made up of internationals, Fijians, Samoans, Tongans, yet the All Blacks are still a National Team.

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8 hours ago, pusslicker said:

It hasn't really been a Kiwi team since they had the American helmsman. At least we can dispense with all of the Kiwi superiority in all things shit finally. Although clarkey will go on forever.

Waa fucking waaa cry me a river ya loser!

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8 hours ago, Monkey said:

I think the 4idiot is the only one left who doesn’t realize it’s EMIRATES Team “insert your name here.”  Just like Larry sold out his team of mercenaries, Matteo is leasing out his pet sailors. 

Everyone has to put food on the table somehow. 

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30 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

 

Like I said... no venue decision yet. AM are in, NYYC S+S are in, LR and Ineos so far. If rumours are true, Alinghi may be back too. Looks to be shaping up  nicely. 

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7 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Like I said... no venue decision yet. AM are in, NYYC S+S are in, LR and Ineos so far. If rumours are true, Alinghi may be back too. Looks to be shaping up  nicely. 

No way that AM are in! There will not be two American Challengers, trust me. That's why Canfield & Buckley are collaborating with the NYYC.

Grant Dalton described the Chance Auckland is hosting again as "Small One". And why would he take the risk having no guarantees that International Travellers would be let back into NZ by 2024.

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18 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

No way that AM are in! There will not be two American Challengers, trust me. That's why Canfield & Buckley are collaborating with the NYYC.

Grant Dalton described the Chance Auckland is hosting again as "Small One". And why would he take the risk having no guarantees that International Travellers would be let back into NZ by 2024.

There can be more than one American challenger. Canfield & Buckley and S+S have no money, they couldn't find any in Long Beach, so they took their ball and headed east. They need the affiliation with NYYC so they can tap into the membership's checkbooks and fundraising network. AM is already owned by billionaires who could self fund the team if necessary. Their biggest issue at the moment is their lack of a design team. TH stated that their design team has been poached since the end of AC36.

But there could be another distraction on their horizon. It appears that a legal battle could be in the cards between AM & NYYC. Rumor has it that NYYC has implied that the "assets" of AM belong to them. TH has already stated that the designs for Defiant and Patriot are the Intellectual Property of the team. I'm pretty sure he's also stated the boats are the property of the team as well.

As for international travel, no one can make guarantees about that right now. Many areas, the US included, thought they had COVID on the ropes, but the virus has proved to be far more resilient then anyone ever thought possible. With the uncertainty surrounding COVID, Dalts could go anywhere in the world and find the borders closing right when he needs them to be open the most.

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3 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

No way that AM are in! There will not be two American Challengers, trust me. That's why Canfield & Buckley are collaborating with the NYYC.

Grant Dalton described the Chance Auckland is hosting again as "Small One". And why would he take the risk having no guarantees that International Travellers would be let back into NZ by 2024.

AM are building a design team with a clear goal of AC37. They have billionaire backing, they have 2 boats, and a clear intent. They’re in. There will be 2 US challengers.

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4 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

No way that AM are in! There will not be two American Challengers, trust me. That's why Canfield & Buckley are collaborating with the NYYC.

Grant Dalton described the Chance Auckland is hosting again as "Small One". And why would he take the risk having no guarantees that International Travellers would be let back into NZ by 2024.

https://www.livesaildie.com/design-work-resumes-for-american-magic-scott-ferguson-usa-named-desgin-coordinator/

They're in. 

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On 8/7/2021 at 4:46 AM, dg_sailingfan said:

I don't think the Cup will be in Auckland unless Jacinda Ardern has assured Grant Dalton of Open Borders come 2023 or 2024.

New Zealand cannot afford another AC without letting Fans from all over the world back in.

They can come in if they're vaccinated. Otherwise, stay the fuck away.

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1 minute ago, NeedAClew said:

They will stay the fuck away because they will be at AC37 someplace else. No worries, then!

Dalts was looking for cash, but it doesn't sound like Cork or Valencia are actually giving the team a cash infusion, but instead just infrastructure build-outs.   Has one of these locations suggested they are infusing cash into the team?

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1 hour ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Dalts was looking for cash, but it doesn't sound like Cork or Valencia are actually giving the team a cash infusion, but instead just infrastructure build-outs.   Has one of these locations suggested they are infusing cash into the team?

My Money is on either Abu Dhabi or a Joint Venture between Southampton/Portsmouth/Cowes in 2024.

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16 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

My Money is on either Abu Dhabi or ...

... even more likely, Doha. Except there’s no decent wind in the Persian Gulf

 

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19 minutes ago, Xlot said:

... even more likely, Doha. Except there’s no decent wind in the Persian Gulf

 

Imagine the British and American teams sailing in the Persian Gulf when the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps from Iran come over to pay a visit.

Middle East event isn't going to happen - too damn hot and unable to provide adequate safety for these teams

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1 hour ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Imagine the British and American teams sailing in the Persian Gulf when the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps from Iran come over to pay a visit.

Middle East event isn't going to happen - too damn hot and unable to provide adequate safety for these teams

Not really. At the time of AC33, when Alinghi wanted to hold the affair in Ras Al Khaima - which is nearer to Iran than Dubai - it was seen that even the much larger DoG courses would be clear of Iran waters or claims. Rather, this reminds me that Alinghi chose RAK because the expected wind was all of 6 kts ...

 

Dalts, as likeable a character as he is, would be well advised to steer clear of a poker table: his bluffing is atrociously transparent

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1 hour ago, Xlot said:

Not really. At the time of AC33, when Alinghi wanted to hold the affair in Ras Al Khaima - which is nearer to Iran than Dubai - it was seen that even the much larger DoG courses would be clear of Iran waters or claims.

Yes, and if I remember correctly, the NY Court ruled against RAK saying that they couldn't force an american team to compete in a place near the Middle East" or something like that. 

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6 minutes ago, Zaal said:

https://americanmagic.americascup.com/en/news/93_DESIGN-WORK-RESUMES-FOR-AMERICAN-MAGIC-SCOTT-FERGUSON-USA-NAMED-DESIGN-COORDINATOR.html 

Scott Ferguson has been appointed Design Coordinator by TH. I'm wondering if M. Botin will sign with other teams, or if he will work again with AM.

Botin is rumored to joining up with Alinghy.

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5 hours ago, Xlot said:

... even more likely, Doha. Except there’s no decent wind in the Persian Gulf

 

No Question that Conditions would be a factor. That being said Doha and Qatar in General have gotten 2 Major High-Profile Sporting Events already. The World Athletics Championships in 2019 & the Soccer World Cup next year (2022).

Honestly no one would be shocked if the America's Cup is next (at least not me)! Would you be shocked?

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4 hours ago, Xlot said:

Rather, this reminds me that Alinghi chose RAK because the expected wind was all of 6 kts ...

There have been some hints of the next Class Rule being aimed towards enabling better performance in the light, I think THutch even mentioned two rig sizes are possibilities? Even if it were in Auckland again that would get two thumbs up from me but... Perhaps GD has an eye towards more RAK-like conditions (and maximum money..), who knows? 

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On 8/17/2021 at 5:59 PM, dg_sailingfan said:

No Question that Conditions would be a factor. That being said Doha and Qatar in General have gotten 2 Major High-Profile Sporting Events already. The World Athletics Championships in 2019 & the Soccer World Cup next year (2022).

Honestly no one would be shocked if the America's Cup is next (at least not me)! Would you be shocked?

TH supposedly mentioned this week while sailing in Europe that AM would not participate in AC37 if the event is held in the Middle East.  No one can ensure/insure safety for their team, including their female team members in a region that doesn't care for Americans. 

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1 hour ago, Chobani Sailor said:

TH supposedly mentioned this week while sailing in Europe that AM would not participate in AC37 if the event is held in the Middle East.  No one can ensure/insure safety for their team, including their female team members in a region that doesn't care for Americans. 

What? I'm calling bs because that makes absolutely no sense. Both Saudi Arabia and Qatar are major allies of the US, there are thousands of military personnel and civilians in those countries, not to mention the international sporting events (F1, soon FIFA) that draw tens of thousands of foreigners, including americans...

Or did I miss a proposal to host AC37 in Yemen?

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10 minutes ago, crashtack said:

What? I'm calling bs because that makes absolutely no sense. Both Saudi Arabia and Qatar are major allies of the US, there are thousands of military personnel and civilians in those countries, not to mention the international sporting events (F1, soon FIFA) that draw tens of thousands of foreigners, including americans...

Or did I miss a proposal to host AC37 in Yemen?

Americans aren't big supporters of F1 or FIFA. The have their own versions so they can win every year

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On 8/19/2021 at 5:28 AM, crashtack said:

Team comms from race 9, you can pinpoint the decision which lost LR the race, and maybe the cup (24 minutes in)

Oh, gosh. I had worked hard to forget that vivid memory. It's a beautiful example of a stubbornly held preconception of which side of the course is better. And the perils of being just barely ahead.

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Why is crashtack bringing this up now.  It was pretty obvious at the time that this was the issue.  Has he just recently watched the vid for the first time and realised what everybody had decided months ago.

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1 hour ago, trt131 said:

Why is crashtack bringing this up now.  It was pretty obvious at the time that this was the issue.  Has he just recently watched the vid for the first time and realised what everybody had decided months ago.

Because this 'Team Comms Only' version was posted to YT just 2 days ago.

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16 hours ago, trt131 said:

But it was on the live broadcast at the time.

Maybe I'm the only one without superman hearing, but I personally didn't really catch every minutia of the team comms when there were several people commentating over them at the same time. Also I posted the video because I thought it was interesting as a whole, not only to point out that one moment.

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