The AC 37 has started, news and rumours

[Kate short for Bob 438]

1 hour ago, Gissie said:

Really? So if the RWC had been held by the winning country every time, including the All Blacks, then they won it and auctioned it off to be held in Ireland, for example, you would just fire up the big TV.

Fair enough, but I would certainly be pissed off with them.

Uh?  Your post doesn't make sense.

The RWC location is not determined by who currently holds the cup.

Were you pissed off when a Bledisloe Cup game was held in Hong Kong?

Were NZ and Irish fans pissed off when a game was held in Chicago?

[Kate short for Bob 438]

8 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

So you are placing your loyalty to Dalton over New Zealand?  Where would Dalt's and the other sailors go?

It wouldn't be just sailors that would walk.  Why would Dunphy and co just stop at Dalton?  In a Corporate takeover you don't just oust one person.

8 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Nationality restrictions prevent them from working for any other team.

Nationality restrictions created by Team NZ.  A change in management with the agreement of the COR can change them.  That said nationality restrictions don't stop them from working for any other team - the limitations are only around who can helm and the % composition of the sailing team.  Plenty of latitude to find work elsewhere at higher remuneration.  However it would depend on their current employment contracts.

8 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

He get to chase the money, sail anywhere else in the world and still claim he is representing New Zealand.  It is BS!

No it is the reality of international sport.  When was the last time Lydia Ko played in New Zealand?

[Kate short for Bob 438]

On 9/5/2021 at 8:43 AM, JALhazmat said:

Ok… despite your best efforts at picking a fight, the current episode doesn’t look good for all concerned or do you think everyone looks grade A stand up blokes with a nice clear plan that’s been executed perfectly? 
 

FFS this "current episode" is bloody tame compared to other AC shit fights.  Hell most of it is in the imagination of bored journalists from Stuff(all) and Granny Herald.

[Priscilla 2,803]

14 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Were NZ and Irish fans pissed off when a game was held in Chicago?

Fuck I was 40-29 score line in favour of the Leprechauns double bugger.

[Kate short for Bob 438]

On 9/5/2021 at 8:50 AM, JALhazmat said:

What situation? 

 

On 9/5/2021 at 8:50 AM, JALhazmat said:

rejecting Cindys  offer

It hasn't been rejected yet.  The offer is still on the table.  TNZ have indicated they can get better.  BTW it isn't Cindy's offer - the negotiation is being done by MBIE on behalf of ACC and Government.  Cindy isn't putting up the full $99m.

On 9/5/2021 at 8:50 AM, JALhazmat said:

hawking the cup overseas, upsetting the general public

The general public have more on their minds than where the next AC is held.  Most of the fans I know don't care where it is held as long as we keep kicking arse.  Many are trying to keep their own businesses going and trying to source materials for them and their boats.

On 9/5/2021 at 8:50 AM, JALhazmat said:

having your home YC split over legal action  against the CoR they accepted and some bell end running around with a half real offer demanding GDs head for  cash then changing his mind after a public slagging from an anonymous Team source.

As I posted earlier that is all pretty tame shit from an AC perspective and most of it is in the minds of journalists rather than grounded in reality.   Who gives a fuck what an anonymous Team source said.

What is clear is that TNZ are still leading the pack and every trick in the book will be played to try and undermine that.  Your only chance of succeeding with that tack is to get rid of Dalton. 

[Kate short for Bob 438]

8 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Fuck I was 40-29 score line in favour of the Leprechauns double bugger.

Yeah first loss to the Irish in 100 years of matches!

Was as bad as listening to the radio of the AB's 12-0 loss to Munster, Ireland in 1978.  Went on to do the Grand Slam for the first time though.

[Priscilla 2,803]

9 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Yeah first loss to the Irish in 100 years of matches!

Was as bad as listening to the radio of the AB's 12-0 loss to Munster, Ireland in 1978.  Went on to do the Grand Slam for the first time though.

True Katey Kamikaze Leprechauns.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-20362232.html

 

[Stingray~ 2,262]

42 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Keep digging @Stingray~ 

Me? Lmao! 
 

Again, why not let the other money be controlled in a more transparent way? Why? 

[Kate short for Bob 438]

6 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Me? Lmao! 
 

Again, why not let the other money be controlled in a more transparent way? Why? 

Yes you.

More transparent in what way?  

[Priscilla 2,803]

50 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Dunphy couldn't helm a boat

Crikey I thought it was spelt DunFay.

[Stingray~ 2,262]

5 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Yes you.

More transparent in what way?  

In accounting for how that money is being spent, apparently. Since GD is by all his fans’ account a straight-shooter, then why on earth is there any problem agreeing? Let that part of the accounting dept go and be able to report back, geezus, how can that hurt GD? 

[Kate short for Bob 438]

1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

In accounting for how that money is being spent, apparently. Since GD is by all his fans’ account a straight-shooter, then where is there any problem agreeing? 

That wasn't the question.  What would you do different than last time?

[Stingray~ 2,262]

1 minute ago, Kate short for Bob said:

That wasn't the question.  What would you do different than last time?

The F if I know but maybe learn some lessons? 

[Kate short for Bob 438]

Just now, Stingray~ said:

The F if I know but maybe learn some lessons? 

I didn't think you knew as you don't have any experience in these matters and are just relying on news media reports.  What's more you are relying on a single event and accusation that proved to be grossly wrong.

Now a full independent audit found nothing wrong and suggested some minor changes.  There was full transparency in how ACE spent the money allocated to them.  There was full transparency in what money was passed onto ETNZ.

The question you are struggling with is how much transparency is required from ETNZ.  You are inferring that it "obviously isn't transparent enough."  As per normal corporate governance models the senior management of TNZ have a delegated financial authority (DFA) and have to report to the TNZ board.  The detail is no one else's business except the Senior Management and their Board.  Of course they have to work within the legal and tax framework in which they operate.

End of story.  Keep digging for something more sinister if you wish.

[Stingray~ 2,262]

Again, it’s not me calling for GD to be more transparent about how he spends other peoples’ money. Read the f’ing news, even the now-current articles. 

[Gissie 1,755]

57 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Uh?  Your post doesn't make sense.

The RWC location is not determined by who currently holds the cup.

Of course it doesn't. What I was pointing out that to compare All Blacks in the RWC the cup would need to be played in the winners country, otherwise it is apples and sausages.

As for the Bledisloe in HK. Yes I was pissed, even though I was in China and could have gone and seen it. The games should be in either Aus or NZ. The Irish game, didn't really mind either way, although it did come back and bite the AB's on the arse. 

[Sailbydate 3,605]

27 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

True Katey Kamikaze Leprechauns.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-20362232.html

 

We had one or two 'kamikaze tacklers' of our own, I recall. Notably, Bill Osborne. He hit 'em like a freight train at a level crossing. ;-)

[Kate short for Bob 438]

4 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Again, it’s not me calling for GD to be more transparent about how he spends other peoples’ money. Read the f’ing news, even the now-current articles. 

You see that is where you and the media are off on another planet.  Most corporations spend other people's money including shareholders.  The detail is not important to them other than that they get a return on their investment.

As I've said before the crux of the matter isn't just the quantum but the terms and conditions surrounding the "gift" or "investment".

Now what level of transparency do you deem adequate?  If MBIE requires that on behalf of Government it wants to countersign every cheque then TNZ quite rightly will tell them "sorry no thanks, we'll go elsewhere".

Do you expect any of the Challengers to operate in an environment of full financial transparency?  Nup.  

[Kate short for Bob 438]

41 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

True Katey Kamikaze Leprechauns.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-20362232.html

 

 

9 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

We had one or two 'kamikaze tacklers' of our own, I recall. Notably, Bill Osborne. He hit 'em like a freight train at a level crossing. ;-)

I had the good fortune one night before a Test Match in Auckland to talk to Tane Norton, Brian Williams (still has thighs like tree stumps) and Graham Mourie by chance all together at my local (got a great photo of the occasion). 

Graham was the Captain of that Grand Slam team.  I recounted the story of me listening to my transistor radio in the early hours of a mid-week morning and being shocked by the loss.  His comment was that a team learns more from its losses than its wins.  A cliche I know but he was adamant that if they hadn't have lost to Munster they wouldn't have won the Grand Slam.  Up until then they thought they were invincible.  

Remind you of any AC campaigns?

[Sailbydate 3,605]

3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

The F if I know but maybe learn some lessons? 

What makes you think lessons have not been learnt (learned)?

[Forourselves 1,690]

Bill Osborne is My Mums Uncle. Glen Osborne is my cousin, another All Black. His family - Mums family, is from Whanganui. He's now a Whanganui Community Constable, a well respected one at that. We used to spend many Christmas's in Whanganui as kids. I was gutted for him when we found out the family home in Whanganui was broken into and all his All Black gear was in it. 

[Sailbydate 3,605]

37 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Bill Osborne is My Mums Uncle. Glen Osborne is my cousin, another All Black. His family - Mums family, is from Whanganui. He's now a Whanganui Community Constable, a well respected one at that. We used to spend many Christmas's in Whanganui as kids. I was gutted for him when we found out the family home in Whanganui was broken into and all his All Black gear was in it. 

I worked with Bill many years ago. A top bloke.

[barfy 1,302]

On 9/5/2021 at 6:14 PM, Gissie said:

You are as bad as 4whatever. He made the claim that the whole world is locked down with closed borders. At the same time he claims that the team needs to leave because we have closed borders and no one else does.

A real politician bit of reasoning.

As for the rest, I guess the smell of the Kanaka and Manuka (as opposed to you colonialist tea tree crap) has gone to your little head.

A season in the atolls. Oh my, how adventurous you are darling. I hope you looked after the natives while you where there.

You are seriously a crazed bit of work..

I said...Over 83% of nz supports lockdown.

True.

You blather on about 4, me as a colonist, and a reply I made to someone else, not Fucked Up like you,  about navigational techniques that the first seafarers used.

Just fuck off, eh?

[curiousinsider 2]

19 hours ago, Pizza on Fire said:

Jiddah has a beautiful waterfront and corniche that were inaugurated 4 years ago and a brand new F1 circuit. As appealing as Cork or Valencia might be, nothing can beat this world-class setup and the funds the country has. Sailing conditions are nice in December and if by then travel restrictions have been eased, you can have quite a few Europeans that combine it with their Christmas holidays. If Qatar can hold the football championships, Jiddah can easily hold the AC. 

IF AC37 isn't held in Auckland I can't see it being held anywhere else. 

 

It's kind if interesting and disappointing but no one seems to be a tiny bit concerned about Dalton selling the America's Cup to one of the most hypocritical dictatorships in the world. I guess when money is on the table principles go down the drain. After all, "who gives a shit". I am guessing not many women (or journalists, victims of Saudi terrorists, or... you name it) are posting here that could easily expand on the wonders of Saudi Arabia.

[enigmatically2 1,469]

48 minutes ago, curiousinsider said:

It's kind if interesting and disappointing but no one seems to be a tiny bit concerned about Dalton selling the America's Cup to one of the most hypocritical dictatorships in the world. I guess when money is on the table principles go down the drain. After all, "who gives a shit". I am guessing not many women (or journalists, victims of Saudi terrorists, or... you name it) are posting here that could easily expand on the wonders of Saudi Arabia.

I don't think that is true (that no-one is concerned). I think a number of people would be unhappy about it. I know I would be against it.  Of course there are a couple on here who would not balk at St Dalton sacrificing virgins and buggering koala bears if he said it was needed. Then a few Kiwis who would swallow uncomfortably but feel getting the money is more important. But I think many people are against KSA for a number of reasons - and that includes their less than ideal record on a few issues

[Xlot 1,162]

https://www.sail-world.com/news/241353/Americas-Cup-Valencia-confirms-key-points-of-bid

RG clutching at straws ...

[dogwatch 1,311]

1 hour ago, curiousinsider said:

It's kind if interesting and disappointing but no one seems to be a tiny bit concerned about Dalton selling the America's Cup to one of the most hypocritical dictatorships in the world. 

Several here have expressed such concerns. I don't feel the need to repeat mine every single time someone posts about Jeddah.

[curiousinsider 2]

9 minutes ago, Xlot said:

https://www.sail-world.com/news/241353/Americas-Cup-Valencia-confirms-key-points-of-bid

RG clutching at straws ...

I am afraid the Valencian bid has only received support from very few people. As they state in the link "València 2024 has, right now, the main task of getting the support of the three public institutions" they haven't received even verbal support from a single one of those public institutions (on the contrary, some have even expressed their skepticism) let alone financial support from them or from anyone else. There is no money behind that bid. None. The fact that Niccolò Porzio was the initiator (he is a well known fan of Dalton) and the moment in which that happened clearly suggests they are nothing but a puppet created by TNZ in search for leverage. Yes, the location, weather and infrastructures are fantastic but, let's face it, without any cash in hand to offer there is no real bid there.

[NeedAClew 1,786]

3 hours ago, curiousinsider said:

It's kind if interesting and disappointing but no one seems to be a tiny bit concerned about Dalton selling the America's Cup to one of the most hypocritical dictatorships in the world. I guess when money is on the table principles go down the drain. After all, "who gives a shit". I am guessing not many women (or journalists, victims of Saudi terrorists, or... you name it) are posting here that could easily expand on the wonders of Saudi Arabia.

From earlier posts, I believe it's regarded as a "dress code" not indicative of the hearts and minds of people in the Kingdom. Most of the concern was over heat and wind. I presume dismemberings are under the horizon.

[pusslicker 663]

5 hours ago, curiousinsider said:

It's kind if interesting and disappointing but no one seems to be a tiny bit concerned about Dalton selling the America's Cup to one of the most hypocritical dictatorships in the world. I guess when money is on the table principles go down the drain. After all, "who gives a shit". I am guessing not many women (or journalists, victims of Saudi terrorists, or... you name it) are posting here that could easily expand on the wonders of Saudi Arabia.

The Kiwi's never had any principles. 

[pusslicker 663]

3 hours ago, curiousinsider said:

I am afraid the Valencian bid has only received support from very few people. As they state in the link "València 2024 has, right now, the main task of getting the support of the three public institutions" they haven't received even verbal support from a single one of those public institutions (on the contrary, some have even expressed their skepticism) let alone financial support from them or from anyone else. There is no money behind that bid. None. The fact that Niccolò Porzio was the initiator (he is a well known fan of Dalton) and the moment in which that happened clearly suggests they are nothing but a puppet created by TNZ in search for leverage. Yes, the location, weather and infrastructures are fantastic but, let's face it, without any cash in hand to offer there is no real bid there.

Wasn't Valencia scandal ridden a few years ago with all the corruption that came from the last AC, F1 and a bunch of building projects? I would assume it hasn't been long enough for them to get burned again.

[Gissie 1,755]

9 hours ago, barfy said:

You are seriously a crazed bit of work..

I said...Over 83% of nz supports lockdown.

True.

You blather on about 4, me as a colonist, and a reply I made to someone else, not Fucked Up like you,  about navigational techniques that the first seafarers used.

Just fuck off, eh?

Apologies for you lack of comprehension skills. I was comparing you to 4myself on the ability to make idiotic claims and then insults. 4braincells made the claim the whole world was locked down, which, as you point out, is some extreme bullshit. Especially when his latest excuse for taking the cup offshore is our locked borders.

The colonist may be wrong, but unless you are a full blooded Maori, then most of you is considered one in modern NZ.

Thanks for the invite to fuck off, but as I don't know any off I will decline. I will however leave weasel4everalone with his lies. For now...

[Stingray~ 2,262]

Time running out for private bid to keep America's Cup in Auckland | Stuff.co.nz

[Priscilla 2,803]

2 hours ago, pusslicker said:

The Kiwi's never had any principles. 

Couldn’t be further from the truth PussyScoffer sure like all nations we have had our hang your head in shame days in sport  ie the 1981 Apartheid State of South Africa rugby tour of Aotearoa followed by the 1986 NZ Cavaliers return tour in 1986 the 2003 AC was a moral clanger but you do what intelligence you do possess if any a gross disservice tossing about generalisations that only contain a few grains of truth.

[Priscilla 2,803]

2 hours ago, pusslicker said:

Wasn't Valencia scandal ridden a few years ago with all the corruption that came from the last AC, F1 and a bunch of building projects? I would assume it hasn't been long enough for them to get burned again.

Valencia is still paying off the costs incurred by hosting the AC in 2007.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/125516573/americas-cup-valencia-mayor-cool-on-hosting-bid-with-20m-hangover

[Stingray~ 2,262]

38 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Valencia is still paying off the costs incurred by hosting the AC in 2007.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/125516573/americas-cup-valencia-mayor-cool-on-hosting-bid-with-20m-hangover

Seems like an even bigger issue for Valencia is that if the venue-choice date holds firm (only ten days from now) then the chances of getting decisions passed through a truly massive amount of Spanish bureaucracy at the city, region and national levels, makes the chance of success for the Valencia 'bid' vanishingly remote. Oh, and the piece posted at the Valencia Yacht Club web site? It's simply a copy of one of the very few articles posted over the weekend in Spanish media, triggered by what RG had posted. 

Cork? They need political vote/decisions made too but so far it's been just the sound of crickets.

I really hope the various Aucklanders can figure things out because nobody wants the supposed/rumored Jeddah option and the chances of these other two, Valencia and Cork, look pretty unlikely unless things change with very-unlikely speed.

Maybe there's a wildcard we have not heard of.  

[Stingray~ 2,262]

24 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Cork? They need political vote/decisions made too but so far it's been just the sound of crickets.

From just now

America's Cup may cost €9m upfront if Ireland's bid wins (irishexaminer.com)

Cork North-Central TD Mick Barry said the Government needs to clarify what the event will cost the Irish State, and how the funds will be paid. He called on Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney, who has spearheaded Ireland's campaign to secure the event at government level, to spell out exactly what are the costs involved. 

"He seems keen to spend a lot of taxpayers' money on this elite sporting event that was a loss-maker for Auckland," Mr Barry said.

...

Both Valencia and Cork are understood to have sought indemnities in the event that the race is cancelled or the subject of a legal challenge.

[idontwan2know 230]

Learning that Dunphy is involved at the behest of Jim Farmer suddenly puts all the pieces together.

 

This is a shit fight between current ETNZ and old TNZ people/donors that were pushed out at various stages and using the venue disagreement as a pretext to get back in the game.

 

I do not think they have any chance of success and highly doubt they can actually produce much, if any, of the $80m they've claimed.

[chesirecat 713]

27 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

From just now

America's Cup may cost €9m upfront if Ireland's bid wins (irishexaminer.com)

Cork North-Central TD Mick Barry said the Government needs to clarify what the event will cost the Irish State, and how the funds will be paid. He called on Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney, who has spearheaded Ireland's campaign to secure the event at government level, to spell out exactly what are the costs involved. 

"He seems keen to spend a lot of taxpayers' money on this elite sporting event that was a loss-maker for Auckland," Mr Barry said.

...

Both Valencia and Cork are understood to have sought indemnities in the event that the race is cancelled or the subject of a legal challenge.

At least they 've just dealt with this issue

"It marks a key milestone in the Cork Lower Harbour Main Drainage Project which began in 2015 when the equivalent of 40,000 wheelie bins of raw sewage from around 20,000 homes and businesses in the lower harbour region was being discharged into the harbour every day."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40374383.html

 

[Priscilla 2,803]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40374824.html
There are two tranches of funding required by the America's Cup — the infrastructure costs to prepare for the event, and the organisers' fee.
Typical Irish economics whats missing there is wheel barrows of loot TNZ are seeking to actually be able to compete in the next AC.

[Stingray~ 2,262]

55 minutes ago, idontwan2know said:

Learning that Dunphy is involved at the behest of Jim Farmer suddenly puts all the pieces together.

 

This is a shit fight between current ETNZ and old TNZ people/donors that were pushed out at various stages and using the venue disagreement as a pretext to get back in the game.

 

I do not think they have any chance of success and highly doubt they can actually produce much, if any, of the $80m they've claimed.

It will be interesting to see if Toyota NZ gets any sail-banner visibility this next time. 

[pusslicker 663]

3 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Couldn’t be further from the truth PussyScoffer sure like all nations we have had our hang your head in shame days in sport  ie the 1981 Apartheid State of South Africa rugby tour of Aotearoa followed by the 1986 NZ Cavaliers return tour in 1986 the 2003 AC was a moral clanger but you do what intelligence you do possess if any a gross disservice tossing about generalisations that only contain a few grains of truth.

I'm only talking about the AC. They aren't generalizations in that context.

[chesirecat 713]

4 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Time running out for private bid to keep America's Cup in Auckland | Stuff.co.nz

I've dealt with such investor leads in my film production days. Quite frankly they are not worth the effort and distraction. The rule, I discovered from old hands, is to get them to put down some real money, even just $100 (especially for billionaires) and if they don't they wont be coughing up a few million. And of course they like moving money around which brings complications.

[Stingray~ 2,262]

3 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

I've dealt with such investor leads in my film production days. Quite frankly they are not worth the effort and distraction. The rule, I discovered from old hands, is to get them to put down some real money, even just $100 (especially for billionaires) and if they don't they wont be coughing up a few million. And of course they like moving money around which brings complications.

A possibly-encouraging line from that article: 

Dunphy won’t name who else might be ready to stump up the cash and in an hour-long interview said he would underwrite the offer. But when Stuff sought an explanation of how it would be underwritten, he moved the discussion on.

[idontwan2know 230]

10 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

I've dealt with such investor leads in my film production days. Quite frankly they are not worth the effort and distraction. The rule, I discovered from old hands, is to get them to put down some real money, even just $100 (especially for billionaires) and if they don't they wont be coughing up a few million. And of course they like moving money around which brings complications.

Agreed. With major capital campaigns like this you'd ideally like to have a "lead donor" who goes public with a major commitment to draw attention and signal to others that it's real. The fact that they claim to have commitments for $80m but no one is willing to go public with it is odd.

[chesirecat 713]

5 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

A possibly-encouraging line from that article: 

Dunphy won’t name who else might be ready to stump up the cash and in an hour-long interview said he would underwrite the offer. But when Stuff sought an explanation of how it would be underwritten, he moved the discussion on.

Dalton should ask him to put some cash into an escrow account (even $100) before going any further. The very fact Dunphy has gone public doesn't lend itself to credibility. Another red flag.

[chesirecat 713]

4 minutes ago, idontwan2know said:

Agreed. With major capital campaigns like this you'd ideally like to have a "lead donor" who goes public with a major commitment to draw attention and signal to others that it's real. The fact that they claim to have commitments for $80m but no one is willing to go public with it is odd.

Yes. In the old film days once one had a bonafide film biz player (significant presales agent etc) in that opened the door to private bods.

[Priscilla 2,803]

47 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

I've dealt with such investor leads in my film production days. Quite frankly they are not worth the effort and distraction. The rule, I discovered from old hands, is to get them to put down some real money, even just $100 (especially for billionaires) and if they don't they wont be coughing up a few million. And of course they like moving money around which brings complications.

From where DunFay & Co are coming surely they are not wisely investing rather gifting the proposed $80m.

Pouring loot into an AC campaign for a ROI yeah right.

[rh3000 1,883]

2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

A possibly-encouraging line from that article: 

Dunphy won’t name who else might be ready to stump up the cash and in an hour-long interview said he would underwrite the offer. But when Stuff sought an explanation of how it would be underwritten, he moved the discussion on.

Only if you ignore the implications of the very next line.

[chesirecat 713]

1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

From where DunFay & Co are coming surely they are not wisely investing rather gifting the proposed $80m.

Pouring loot into an AC campaign for a ROI yeah right.

Usually such dont have free cash available. From my limited experience there's usually other motives more to do with how coin is shifted around. Ie films are or used to, be a great way of moving 'assets' from one country to another. 

There was an infamous case, sorry rumour,  with the Pink Panther films concerning a pink Rolls Royce and the border of Switzerland.

[Priscilla 2,803]

20 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

I worked with Bill many years ago. A top bloke.

Yup, that's what recently resigned Ports of Auckland CEO Tony Gibson reckons after Billy Osbourne signed off on his $1m koha before he to left the board.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/repercussions-continue-over-big-payout-to-departed-auckland-port-ceo/JVPYOWIBD5P565OGF3X7IJDR7E/

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/phil-goffs-strong-letter-demands-answers-of-ports-of-auckland/A7WAFDC6KCZODPS5K4S5VVN57Q/

[Priscilla 2,803]

2 hours ago, chesirecat said:

Usually such dont have free cash available. From my limited experience there's usually other motives more to do with how coin is shifted around. Ie films are or used to, be a great way of moving 'assets' from one country to another. 

There was an infamous case, sorry rumour,  with the Pink Panther films concerning a pink Rolls Royce and the border of Switzerland.

One of the drivers for investing in the film industry here in Aotearoa when I was involved was tax loopholes definitely not ROI.

The potential for a tax shelter was put in place by the New Zealand Film Commission at the beginning of the 1980s when there was an extreme lack of funding available. With a lack of funds from private investors and TVNZ, which viewed funding independent filmmakers as the Film Commission’s responsibility, an alternative source of funds needed to be found. NZFC met with lawyers and investment bankers and found a loophole whereby investors couldn’t lose if they invested in a film regardless of its success or failure. So began the ‘tax shelter’ period. This system worked well until foreign investors became involved and thought of ways to further abuse the system by making deferred payments. Financiers didn’t care if the film was of high quality, or even if it was released because they made money regardless.

Maybe DunFay&Co have identified some tax advantages in donating funds to TNZ.

[chesirecat 713]

43 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

One of the drivers for investing in the film industry here in Aotearoa when I was involved was tax loopholes definitely not ROI.

The potential for a tax shelter was put in place by the New Zealand Film Commission at the beginning of the 1980s when there was an extreme lack of funding available. With a lack of funds from private investors and TVNZ, which viewed funding independent filmmakers as the Film Commission’s responsibility, an alternative source of funds needed to be found. NZFC met with lawyers and investment bankers and found a loophole whereby investors couldn’t lose if they invested in a film regardless of its success or failure. So began the ‘tax shelter’ period. This system worked well until foreign investors became involved and thought of ways to further abuse the system by making deferred payments. Financiers didn’t care if the film was of high quality, or even if it was released because they made money regardless.

Maybe DunFay&Co have identified some tax advantages in donating funds to TNZ.

That could well be a possibility especially considering films are essentially about licensing and they are certainly capable of cunning plans.

Another red flag that jumped out on that Dun interview was this. " . . . a different set of donors . . " So one group for non Dalton and another nebulous group for Dalton?

"Dunphy repeatedly used the phrase “team status quo [with Dalton remaining] requires a different set of donors and contributors” but would not elaborate.“We have a plan for this” was a second line that Dunphy’s public-relations adviser urged for inclusion."

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/126289725/time-running-out-for-private-bid-to-keep-americas-cup-in-auckland

[NeedAClew 1,786]

There was mention of an apparently abandoned "charitable trust" funding vehicle in some articles earlier. That would match with use of the odd "donor" rather than sponsor or investor. 

Maybe some of the departed donors  wanted to use their part of the $80 million as a tax deduction.

[Pizza on Fire 11]

On 9/6/2021 at 1:24 PM, curiousinsider said:

It's kind if interesting and disappointing but no one seems to be a tiny bit concerned about Dalton selling the America's Cup to one of the most hypocritical dictatorships in the world. I guess when money is on the table principles go down the drain. After all, "who gives a shit". I am guessing not many women (or journalists, victims of Saudi terrorists, or... you name it) are posting here that could easily expand on the wonders of Saudi Arabia.

Attacking foreign countries, police harassing and killing innocent people just because they happen to be black, restricting women rights in Texas and minority voting rights in Georgia...  Come on man, don't go down that slippery road of "human rights" and "freedom". This is a sailing forum.

Maybe all "host city candidates" are probably vaporware, a part of his political and financial chess game with the NZ government. After all, Dalton is just like everybody else, he's trying to get the best deal and if that means duping some fools in Valencia or Cork to believe they have a chance in order to put pressure on Auckland then good on him.     

[Stingray~ 2,262]

The USA is a big place with plenty of good but plenty of problems too, obviously. But let's not try to compare that culture with freaking Saudi Arabia! Lol, they are VERY different (good or bad).

To couriousinsider's point, I watched TE's CupDate yesterday and if I understood the drift of it correctly then, when he took the 'on this day, DC won race 1 of the '88 DoG Match' opportunity he also spoke about how it was the 'first commercial Cup.' DC had Pepsi Light on the genoa and later Marlboro on the wing. TE also pointed out that DC, for having negotiated and raised those sponsorships, took a cut of those sponsorship funds - and suggested that GD likely makes a lucrative living doing basically the same thing. What could be different this time is that if, say Jeddah, were to sponsor $100M directly to run ETNZ in return for the venue rights, then it's possible GD will get a hefty cut of that pretty-massive sum. And while TE did not suggest it, I took there to be an implication that if Auckland happens instead, then GD would not get a cut of the $80M on offer there. IF this is what's going on then it does provide a powerful, personal incentive to 'sell out.'

 

[Priscilla 2,803]

1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

What could be different this time is that if, say Jeddah, were to sponsor $100M directly to run ETNZ in return for the venue rights, then it's possible GD will get a hefty cut of that pretty-massive sum. And while TE did not suggest it, I took there to be an implication that if Auckland happens instead, then GD would not get a cut of the $80M on offer there. IF this is what's going on then it does provide a powerful, personal incentive to 'sell out.'

Don’t you need $150m to mount a competitive AC campaign not quite sure any of those sums mentioned would leave any “fat” over for Lord Daltons cosy retirement aboard his new powercat.

 

[Chobani Sailor 195]

1 minute ago, Priscilla said:

Don’t you need $150m to mount a competitive AC campaign not quite sure any of those sums mentioned would leave any “fat” over for Lord Daltons cosy retirement aboard his new powercat.

 

Team NZ did AC36 for about US$65 million.  Brits and American's easily cleared US$125M a piece.  No idea what the Italians spent, but would assume it was somewhere around $100M. 

Where Team NZ saves/saved a significant amount of money is the travel/relocation costs.  All of their team members reside in Auckland.  The other teams, especially the American's who arrived so early into Auckland had to pay for housing for their team for about a year.

If GD takes this overseas, he just added to his budget substantial travel costs:  If in Cork - assume approximately 4 months of residency - May through the summer.  If in Valencia, teams could train year-round. 

 

 

[Priscilla 2,803]

6 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Team NZ did AC36 for about US$65 million.  Brits and American's easily cleared US$125M a piece.  No idea what the Italians spent, but would assume it was somewhere around $100M. 

Where Team NZ saves/saved a significant amount of money is the travel/relocation costs.  All of their team members reside in Auckland.  The other teams, especially the American's who arrived so early into Auckland had to pay for housing for their team for about a year.

If GD takes this overseas, he just added to his budget substantial travel costs:  If in Cork - assume approximately 4 months of residency - May through the summer.  If in Valencia, teams could train year-round. 

 

 

Yup just furthers my belief that next week’s announcement will be along the lines that TNZ has chosen to defend at home on the sparkling Waitemata.

Lord Dalton will bang on how when the team cuts itself they bleed Kiwi and will announce a IPO release for their Hybrid chase boats to fill the fiscal hole along with confirming DunFay has accepted the vacant role of Lord Daltons court jester.

 

[JALhazmat 1,612]

37 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Team NZ did AC36 for about US$65 million.  Brits and American's easily cleared US$125M a piece.  No idea what the Italians spent, but would assume it was somewhere around $100M. 

Where Team NZ saves/saved a significant amount of money is the travel/relocation costs.  All of their team members reside in Auckland.  The other teams, especially the American's who arrived so early into Auckland had to pay for housing for their team for about a year.

If GD takes this overseas, he just added to his budget substantial travel costs:  If in Cork - assume approximately 4 months of residency - May through the summer.  If in Valencia, teams could train year-round. 

 

 

NZ did it for how much? 

 

[Stingray~ 2,262]

8 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

NZ did it for how much? 

 

Yes, it was a good question posed on a website call NZBusinessDesk or semesuch recently, asking why GD has reacted so incandescently to the offer from locals to fund the team. It’s behind a paywall but I’m guessing they raised the question ‘Is that not enough for the purpose? Are they  (a select few) instead trying to pocket some huge profit, with kickbacks to someone at RNZYS?’ 

[Stingray~ 2,262]

Am still guessing Cork is their go-to if not Auckland since they could lose teams if they go with Jeddah. But even Cork may not be locked in with a solidified offer yet, maybe they don’t have any more-lucrative choices than Auckland. As Mayor Goff even suggested, many months ago. 

[Chobani Sailor 195]

Maybe international relations between the UK & SA, Italy & SA, Switzerland & SA and NZ & SA are good, but in the current geopolitical environment and the pro-Trump AM team, there is almost zero chance 80 team members and families are going to go to SA for 4 months to live, work, and play. You have an American flag on your uniform. 

Plus, you are not going to put Patriot and new-boat in the Red Sea with out some serious security.

Granted everything may be fine and dandy in 2024, but the entry fees are going to be due in January of 2022.

[Stingray~ 2,262]

An American boat called ‘Patriot’ arriving in SA? Lol! 
 

Of even more concern must be just basic things like Islamic laws about women, and what the hell do the (I suppose all male AC75 sailors) do when 5 times a day you have to suddenly stop everything going on, get on your knees, turn east to Mecca, and pray to Allah?   Or be whipped by Mullahs? 
 

Good grief! GD could be the only AC true believer  

[Stingray~ 2,262]

18 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Granted everything may be fine and dandy in 2024, but the entry fees are going to be due in January of 2022.

 

[Chobani Sailor 195]

30 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

An American boat called ‘Patriot’ arriving in SA? Lol! 
 

Of even more concern must be just basic things like Islamic laws about women, and what the hell do the (I suppose all male AC75 sailors) do when 5 times a day you have to suddenly stop everything going on, get on your knees, turn east to Mecca, and pray to Allah?   Or be whipped by Mullahs? 
 

Good grief! GD could be the only AC true believer  

I am sure GD spoke to the insurance underwriters to make sure the teams can be properly insured under the terms of the protocol while performing in the Middle East.

[Stingray~ 2,262]

3 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

I am sure GD spoke to the insurance underwriters to make sure the teams can be properly insured under the terms of the protocol while performing in the Middle East.

Properly insured against.. What all? 

[Chobani Sailor 195]

18 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Properly insured against.. What all? 

P&I, Liability, Medical, Cargo, Property, Business Interruption, Terrorism to name a few types of insurance.  I doubt these teams are self insured and flying by the seat of their pants.  Typically the protocol requires certain levels of insurance to be in place.

[Stingray~ 2,262]

15 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Typically the protocol requires certain levels of insurance to be in place.

I would submit that a 'typical' protocol, for in a place like Jeddah, might be a lot different but what the hell do I know besides what one can read about that area?

[dg_sailingfan 79]

You are all grasping at straws here! It will not be Auckland - Period!

[JALhazmat 1,612]

7 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

An American boat called ‘Patriot’ arriving in SA? Lol! 
 

Of even more concern must be just basic things like Islamic laws about women, and what the hell do the (I suppose all male AC75 sailors) do when 5 times a day you have to suddenly stop everything going on, get on your knees, turn east to Mecca, and pray to Allah?   Or be whipped by Mullahs? 
 

Good grief! GD could be the only AC true believer  

Read a book… it will help with your assumptions about Islam

[JALhazmat 1,612]

7 hours ago, Chobani Sailor said:

I am sure GD spoke to the insurance underwriters to make sure the teams can be properly insured under the terms of the protocol while performing in the Middle East.

How does GD make the sun go away for day time racing? What protocol covers that? 

[dogwatch 1,311]

10 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

what the hell do the (I suppose all male AC75 sailors) do when 5 times a day you have to suddenly stop everything going on, get on your knees, turn east to Mecca, and pray to Allah?   Or be whipped by Mullahs? 

What do expats do? Generally, not a lot as businesses stop. There's no expectation for expats to pray. Race schedules would need to avoid prayer times. That, for our purposes, would be noon and mid-afternoon.

[Sailbydate 3,605]

10 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

An American boat called ‘Patriot’ arriving in SA? Lol! 
 

Of even more concern must be just basic things like Islamic laws about women, and what the hell do the (I suppose all male AC75 sailors) do when 5 times a day you have to suddenly stop everything going on, get on your knees, turn east to Mecca, and pray to Allah?   Or be whipped by Mullahs? 
 

Good grief! GD could be the only AC true believer  

He may even convert, if the money's good enough - such is the team desire for a three-peat. ;-)

[Pizza on Fire 11]

11 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

An American boat called ‘Patriot’ arriving in SA? Lol! 
 

Of even more concern must be just basic things like Islamic laws about women, and what the hell do the (I suppose all male AC75 sailors) do when 5 times a day you have to suddenly stop everything going on, get on your knees, turn east to Mecca, and pray to Allah?   Or be whipped by Mullahs? 
 

Good grief! GD could be the only AC true believer  

First of all, I suggest you stopped taking the Lawrence of Arabia movie as your reference on KSA.   

Now, in what regards "Patriot", what you write is complete and utter BS!!! The US has an active military presence in the Kingdom since 2019 and in fact the 378th Air Expeditionary Wing is based in the Prince Sultan Air Base, about 100 miles south of Riyadh: https://www.afcent.af.mil/Units/378th-Air-Expeditionary-Wing/

There are American "Patriot" missiles in that base, so an American "Patriot" yacht sailing off Jiddah will be more than welcome!!!

Just for you info, the 379th AWE (the biggest in the world) is based in Qatar, the 380th AEW in the UAE, and the 386th AEW in Kuwait. I can't see any "safety" issues with such a huge US military presence in the region.    

As for your other crap, there is NO obligation whatsoever for non-Muslims to pray, what you write is a lie. KSA has changed A LOT in the last 5 years and will change even more in the near future. Hosting major international sports events is a part of that process. Here's just a few of the latest events held (or to be held) in KSA:

Dakar: https://www.dakar.com/

Saudi Cycling Tour: https://www.thesauditour.com/en

Saudi Golf International (part of the European Tour): https://www.golfsaudi.com/en-us/saudi-international/ 

E-xtreme: https://www.extreme-e.com/en/events/desert-xprix

F1: https://www.formula1.com/en/racing/2021/Saudi_Arabia.html 

All these major sports events had no issue whatsoever, so why should a yacht race be any different?

[Pizza on Fire 11]

12 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Properly insured against.. What all? 

F1, Dakar, European Golf Tour, International Cycling Federation, E-xtreme, etc...

How come these major organizations can hold successful sports events in the KSA? Why would AC37 be any different? 

[NeedAClew 1,786]

MBS had a dissident who was a reporter for the Washington Post murdered and dismembered in their embassy. 

At least a goodly portion of Americans don't think it's a groovy place. And then there's the history of women's non-rights....and MBS the reformer...?

If UK and Europeans and Antipodeans are good to go, see ya.

 

[enigmatically2 1,469]

@Pizza on FireI agree with you that some of the comments made about KSA have been wrong, but do you think the AC should go there?

There are plenty of reasons why I think not.

One that has not been covered is whether the current AC sailing attire, being very tight fitting, would contravene the modesty rules if a woman crew member were to wear it in public? It would appear to IMO

But there are many other issues, including the risks that any team members (and their partners) who are gay or bi would face.

[dogwatch 1,311]

2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

if a woman crew member were to wear it in public?

That is alas a rather hypothetical concern and a contrived argument against Jeddah.

[enigmatically2 1,469]

10 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

That is alas a rather hypothetical concern and a contrived argument against Jeddah.

Really?

So you think it is OK to put the teams into a country where they could not select a woman because she would be guilty of an offence if she wore the correct safety clothing?

So which of the following is OK:

a) to say that woman cannot be selected?

b) to say that women take their risks being arrested if they are selected?

c) to say that women cannot wear the most appropriate clothing for safety if selected?

Because there are no other alternatives. 

If they choose to go to Jeddah then it would contrast very poorly with SailGp which is very much encouraging women to sail in the event 

 

[dogwatch 1,311]

None of those. It would be nice if you restricted your critique to what I actually said.