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On Hamish Ross and the Discrimination Issue: This will be long, pedantic, and legal.  I apologize for the length; read at your own risk. Hamish Ross has recently claimed on multiple occasion

I’m not calling this out for the sake of ostracizing you, nor to play PC police on a forum that is notorious for the opposite of that. I could just hit ignore, delete or whatever. I’m calling this out

Hilarious to watch Kiwis who've been around since AC35 twist themselves into intellectual pretzels to give ETNZ a pass on what they screamed bloody murder about when Oracle did it. Even Oracle di

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53 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

The accusations that Stingray is an agent of someone is perhaps the most ridiculous conspiracy on these pages. 

He's a busy chap as previously he was a paid agent of Oracle Racing. Apparently.

And once upon a time, for around a year, Clean was convinced I was shill for Laser. Utterly bizarre. Oh, and according to a former regular here, I'm a senior employee of World Sailing, which was news to me. He could tell by my prose style.

 

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9 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

He's a busy chap as previously he was a paid agent of Oracle Racing. Apparently.

And once upon a time, for around a year, Clean was convinced I was shill for Laser. Utterly bizarre. Oh, and according to a former regular here, I'm a senior employee of World Sailing, which was news to me. He could tell by my prose style.

 

This place, and every other online community on the planet is thick with shills.  Every company with any cash at all employs companies to "manage their brand".

So someone being a bit suspicious is understandable, often their suspicions are correct.  But it matters not, denial is cheap and easy regardless of the facts.

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9 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

He's a busy chap as previously he was a paid agent of Oracle Racing. Apparently.

And once upon a time, for around a year, Clean was convinced I was shill for Laser. Utterly bizarre. Oh, and according to a former regular here, I'm a senior employee of World Sailing, which was news to me.

 

You should be flattered by such accusations I think. I'm feeling a bit overlooked that I haven't been accused of anything like that now

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4 minutes ago, random. said:

So someone being a bit suspicious is understandable, often their suspicions are correct.  But it matters not, denial is cheap and easy regardless of the facts.

My experience has so far been that suspicions are wrong, 100% of the time.

And wait until someone points their smelly finger at you.

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1 minute ago, dogwatch said:

My experience has so far been that suspicions are wrong, 100% of the time.

That's what all the shills say.

Q7L.gif

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The first time I was conscious of the Brand Management thing was a decade or more ago while watching a youtube thing of an interview on a US chat show. 

The interviewee came on, turned away from the host and asked "What are all those people doing?"

The answer was "Oh they look after our online stuff, facebook and posts to our website."

Mmmmm

So they had six or seven people working hard to make sure all was good.  Shit-posts get deleted and they would be using socks to post 'great' posts about how good the show was.

I was stunned that they thought it was so normal that they showed them on air.

Things have come a long way since then.

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

They just ran a story on One News. Dunphy himself said "He's ready to discuss it when the time is right" The time has well and truly passed. Dalts was on TV in regards to the approaches to NYYC and other Challenging clubs, saying he "has had calls from overseas from people who have had those discussions" 

Dunphy was asked when he was going to discuss the proposal and answer the teams questions and his answer was "When the time is right" and he's prepared to meet with the team about his proposal. 

Dalts answer was "I don't know what we're supposed to meet about, we don't know who his backers are, we've got no answers to our questions, and we've got no proposal so we can't do anything"

I think the process has actually been followed through and Dunphy has infact been told to Fuck off,. Dalts and the team have actually told him to present his proposal or piss off. He didn't present his proposal and was told to Fuck off, but went crying to the media and created the FB page saying the team won't listen to him. I think the team wants to move on from Dunphy but he keeps running to the media and accusing the team of being unpatriotic. 

The team wants to move on from Dunphy, but he won't let them. He's the one keeping the process open. Dunphy is using the media and social media to push his agenda, which is why the team is constantly needing to defend themselves and the process. Every time he gets told to Fuck off, he goes straight to the media with terms like "Patriotic" and "Home grown" but he has nothing to offer himself.

Yet Dalts can claim unnamed sources have told him about a foreign conspiracy and he doesn't need to give details.

As for going to the media, Dalts is using it more than Harry and Megan.

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2 hours ago, random. said:

This place, and every other online community on the planet is thick with shills.  Every company with any cash at all employs companies to "manage their brand".

So someone being a bit suspicious is understandable, often their suspicions are correct.  But it matters not, denial is cheap and easy regardless of the facts.

So who are you a shill for I wonder?

Perhaps everyone on here is a shill, so we are just all cancelling each other out.

I have previously wondered whether forourselves is a NZ attempt at a solution to the Turing test - which is going very badly.

Kate Short for Bob is clearly a shill for Richard Curtis who logged into the wrong forum by mistake and hasn't realised yet

SailbyDate is paid by Bird's Eye foods to sublimally promote fish fingers 

etc

p.s. I'm not yet a shill but am open to offers if anyone is interested in paying my reassuringly expensive rates

 

 

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8 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

I have previously wondered whether forourselves is a NZ attempt at a solution to the Turing test

My thinking is more that he's a demonstration that even a global village needs an idiot. Though in SAAC, we are blessed with more than one.

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At the risk of being accused, I see TNZ are now actively trying to discourage the NZ authorities from putting up more public money.

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/americas-cup/dunphy-denies-daltons-dirty-tricks-dig

How else can you interpret them releasing a poll showing most people wouldn't want that more public money committed?

So TNZ really do want to go overseas. Which means they must have confidence in one bid and want to accept it. 

Plainly that isn't Cork or Spain because there wouldn't be the confidence. So clearly GD wants to go to the ME. And that is why he objects to Dunphy getting involved. He wants to go offshore. Anything else is a threat to his plans

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17 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

So clearly GD wants to go to the ME. 

And presumably Ratcliffe is up for that too. In which case, I guess, we will find out if they think the hemisphere dates are MC'able, as nobody would sail in Jeddah in summer if avoidable.

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4 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

And presumably Ratcliffe is up for that too. In which case, I guess, we will find out if they think the hemisphere dates are MC'able, as nobody would sail in Jeddah in summer if avoidable.

Maybe. Perhaps it was not agreed originally because GD said he was going to go out to bids and Ineos said that would be fine (and maybe now regret it)

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If GD is indeed going for Jeddah or bust, lines up his deal and Ratcliffe says, meah, no, that would seem to be a problem. So I have to believe Ineos is in the loop. Otherwise, what if you threw a $100M party but nobody came? I'm not sure anyone else is hot to trot as CoR for a match off Jeddah.

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My point being that Ineos may have given GD carte blanche without ever thinking he may do something like to go to ME.

Or I may be wrong and its somewhere else. 

I'll guess we'll find out more in due time. After all GD will keep to his timescale of deciding by Sept 17th won't he. Because we've been told he will always do that. Sure there is Covid but thats been around for 18 months now so no surprises

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If GD has been travelling at relativistic speeds for the last few months, then it could still be before September 17th in his frame of reference. You may think that is a crackpot suggestion but in my opinion, it is no more so than some of the other theories in circulation.

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12 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

.. GD thinks he has a profit-making opportunity offshore and prefers to pursue that profit-making 'business decision' over what is actually needed to simply run the damn thing in Auckland. ? 

'Follow the Money' is a reasonable start for motivation on many things.

They aren't giving these things away - could an NZ civil service salary pay for one of these?

03dm4306vq844m22y2r03fvhn0i215&option=N&

22 O'Neills Avenue, Takapuna Auckland, Auckland, New Zealand – Luxury Home For Sale (sothebysrealty.com)

 

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12 minutes ago, floater said:

They aren't giving these things away - could an NZ civil service salary pay for one of these?

03dm4306vq844m22y2r03fvhn0i215&option=N&

22 O'Neills Avenue, Takapuna Auckland, Auckland, New Zealand – Luxury Home For Sale (sothebysrealty.com)

 

"feels like being on a cruise ship"

count me out then

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2 hours ago, dogwatch said:

If GD is indeed going for Jeddah or bust, lines up his deal and Ratcliffe says, meah, no, that would seem to be a problem. So I have to believe Ineos is in the loop. Otherwise, what if you threw a $100M party but nobody came? I'm not sure anyone else is hot to trot as CoR for a match off Jeddah.

I think more team "owners" are ok with Jeddah.

Italians - most definitely - Arabs like to spend money and Prada is a luxury item

Alinghy - they will acquire the American Magic assets and show up.  Nobody is going to target the Swiss

Ineos - Fracking vs Real Oil

Team New Zealand - GD wants the $120M, who cares about anybody else.  I am sure Emirates Airlines and Omega watches would like it as well.

Out:

American Magic - GD and COR are aware that AM will not participate if it is in the ME.  Too many people in the region do not like the American flag and too much risk protecting the team.  All you need is one rogue Yemenis to make his way up the red sea and create havoc in order to get 40  virgins.

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20 hours ago, pusslicker said:

GD's brought this all on himself by being weak and failing to raise enough money.

But TNZ wrote a letter saying that GD is the best of the best at everything he does!!

 

18 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Which yacht clubs besides NYYC is Larry a member of? 

Didn't Larry buy the Golden Gate YC as a fuck off to the St Francis YC?

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6 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Mostly what we knew or surmised. Except for:

the saga of where Pete Burling and Blair Tuke are. Have they signed for Team New Zealand or not

What? Why would they not have signed and what has that got to do with any foreign interests given the nationality rules?

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3 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

At the risk of being accused, I see TNZ are now actively trying to discourage the NZ authorities from putting up more public money.

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/americas-cup/dunphy-denies-daltons-dirty-tricks-dig

How else can you interpret them releasing a poll showing most people wouldn't want that more public money committed?

So TNZ really do want to go overseas. Which means they must have confidence in one bid and want to accept it. 

Plainly that isn't Cork or Spain because there wouldn't be the confidence. So clearly GD wants to go to the ME. And that is why he objects to Dunphy getting involved. He wants to go offshore. Anything else is a threat to his plans

My latest sense of things too.

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8 minutes ago, Liquid said:

But TNZ wrote a letter saying that GD is the best of the best at everything he does!!

 

Didn't Larry buy the Golden Gate YC as a fuck off to the St Francis YC?

Yeah effectively but the romance is over and I doubt San Francisco would ever host they were in the hole last time.

Wonder if he is a member of LBYC, RYS, or any likely one. Maybe he is Commodore of a stealth Kaumalapau YC, lol

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So.... GD doesn't know who are the other donors with Dunphy.... but he knows that some of them are in contact with EB and LE. He's sure about this. He doesn't know names and surnames, but he know who they speak with. Incredible, I must say. And I don't get the logic of EB giving money to ETNZ, the Defender, in order to keep the Cup in AKL, then make a challenge and try to win the cup.... against ETNZ. Ehm.... why should he do it? Isn't it easier to just put money into his challenge, and try to win in AKL or wherever will be the AC ? 

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September 21, 2021:  Beautiful hot day in Jeddah - currently 95 degrees and party cloudy.  Feels like 108 degrees. Winds NW at 10mph.  7 day outlooks 97 degrees across the board with a feels like temperature of 110 degrees, no rain. 

 

 

 

 

Wind

This section discusses the wide-area hourly average wind vector (speed and direction) at 10 meters above the ground. The wind experienced at any given location is highly dependent on local topography and other factors, and instantaneous wind speed and direction vary more widely than hourly averages.

The average hourly wind speed in Jeddah experiences mild seasonal variation over the course of the year.

The windier part of the year lasts for 8.8 months, from December 25 to September 18, with average wind speeds of more than 9.2 miles per hour. The windiest day of the year is June 14, with an average hourly wind speed of 10.6 miles per hour.

The calmer time of year lasts for 3.2 months, from September 18 to December 25. The calmest day of the year is October 15, with an average hourly wind speed of 7.7 miles per hour.

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9 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

The windier part of the year lasts for 8.8 months, from December 25 to September 18, with average wind speeds of more than 9.2 miles per hour. The windiest day of the year is June 14, with an average hourly wind speed of 10.6 miles per hour.

So, SailGP conditions!!!

 

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39 minutes ago, Zaal said:

So.... GD doesn't know who are the other donors with Dunphy.... but he knows that some of them are in contact with EB and LE. He's sure about this. He doesn't know names and surnames, but he know who they speak with. Incredible, I must say. And I don't get the logic of EB giving money to ETNZ, the Defender, in order to keep the Cup in AKL, then make a challenge and try to win the cup.... against ETNZ. Ehm.... why should he do it? Isn't it easier to just put money into his challenge, and try to win in AKL or wherever will be the AC ? 

A fair question. Since he/she/it supposedly wanted an appeal to change to the COR, was it actually about changing the boats it was in as well? 

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4 minutes ago, Zaal said:

The NYYC isn't enthusiast of the AC75s, that's for sure. They publicly said that should they won, they would change to some more "traditional" boats. 

The more traditional boats is all Taylor Canfield knows how to sail.

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4 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

At the risk of being accused, I see TNZ are now actively trying to discourage the NZ authorities from putting up more public money.

 

How many times do you have to be told? They're not putting up any more money. 

They've already said multiple times that their offer was final. Its now off the table (as Dalton confirmed) so thats it.

Unless Dunphy is prepared to name his backers, his proposal is dead.

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6 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

 

I have previously wondered whether forourselves is a NZ attempt at a solution to the Turing test - which is going very badly.

 

Really really badly. Come on you programmers you have to get some understanding of the context of words, not just get him to react to bi-words

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2 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Really really badly. Come on you programmers you have to get some understanding of the context of words, not just get him to react to bi-words

Blah blah blah. Whatever. Sticks and stones dickhead! Say what you want, but I've been right the whole time.

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8 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Blah blah blah. Whatever. Sticks and stones dickhead! Say what you want, but I've been right the whole time.

But the point is that I never said that the govt were going to give more funding. So your response would be akin to me replying to you

"How many times do you have to be told, a dolphin is a mammal, not a fish. See, I'm always right".

Your response says nothing about why TNZ would release that poll if it is so irrelevant.

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3 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

But the point is that I never said that the govt were going to give more funding. So your response would be akin to me replying to you

"How many times do you have to be told, a dolphin is a mammal, not a fish. See, I'm always right".

Your response says nothing about why TNZ would release that poll if it is so irrelevant.

Because they know Polls are irrelevant. 

Take a poll of business people and Farmers to see who their preferred PM is, and it'll probably show Judith Collins.

Take a poll of Beneficiaries, solo parents, and South Auckland, and they'll say Jacinda Ardern.

Polls are a reflection of the sample taken. Not reality.

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

Because they know Polls are irrelevant. 

Are you trying to prove you are a failed AI? That makes no sense at all.

GD "we just done a poll, which is of course irrelevant. So let's put it out in a press release to confuse the bastards"

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58 minutes ago, Zaal said:

The NYYC isn't enthusiast of the AC75s, that's for sure. They publicly said that should they won, they would change to some more "traditional" boats. 

Yeah but they aren't interested in legal challenges either.

They may would have gone to Court if there was a 1 - 1 Challenge between ETNZ and INEOS but now because that is off the table and RNZYS/RYS confirmed that it will be a Multi-Challenger Event I don't see them getting involved in the Dalton/Dunphy Saga & Shenanigans.

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35 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Are you trying to prove you are a failed AI? That makes no sense at all.

GD "we just done a poll, which is of course irrelevant. So let's put it out in a press release to confuse the bastards"

Was it GD that released that poll? 

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8 hours ago, Gissie said:

Yet Dalts can claim unnamed sources have told him about a foreign conspiracy and he doesn't need to give details.

As for going to the media, Dalts is using it more than Harry and Megan.

Dalts could teach Harry and his missus a thing or two about tactical and strategic management of the media.

Certainly Dunphy isn't a match for any of them.  

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Auckland AC37 appears to be DEAD

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/126443321/americas-cup-team-nz-says-home-defence-backer-mark-dunphy-called-rival-yacht-club

This is just my personal opinion BUT I think that NYYC Member is get it HAMISH ROSS! That would make sense in a lot of ways.

Ross stated on air in TE Chat Show before Dalton & RNZYS Commodore briefed the Squadron Members that he would talk to Members of the RNZYS about Court Challenges preventing the Cup going overseas.

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While some of us are guessing that GD likely already has a lucrative deal in Jeddah (or why else is he actively fighting off Auckland?) it will be interesting to see if he (and/or Shoebie and Greene) do try to resurrect Cork and even vaporware Spain. Because if they do make that effort, well then what do we make of things at that point?

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13 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

While some of us are guessing that GD likely already has a lucrative deal in Jeddah (or why else is he actively fighting off Auckland?) it will be interesting to see if he (and/or Shoebie and Greene) do try to resurrect Cork and/or Spain. Because if they do make that effort, well then what do we make of things at that point?

Business as usual. On with the Defence. 

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@Kate short for Bob

I've a growing suspicion that Hamish Ross was the one who initiated all the nonsense about potential Court Legal Challenges to replace the Royal Yacht Squadron with the NYYC.

Probably he had a Conversation with NYYC Commodore John Culver but Culver said thanks but no, thanks!

From June 15th STUFF Article...

“We are aware of a RNZYS member, [America’s Cup lawyer] Mr Hamish Ross, who acts for the New York Yacht Club (NYYC) and recently delivered a wildcard challenge as well as their proposed protocol to the Commodore of the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron (RNZYS) on behalf of the New York Yacht Club,” Team New Zealand said in a statement.

“Mr Ross appears to be leading the agenda of the NYYC who he represents by seeking to impose their agenda on the RNZYS and the 37th America’s Cup.”

This is coming from a Statement by TNZ!!!

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7 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

SailbyDate is paid by Bird's Eye foods to sublimally promote fish fingers 

Ha, ha. So how am I doing at your place? Sales are well up. :D

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6 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

In case that doesn't translate well internationally, its because of his picture and

https://www.birdseye.co.uk/our-brands/who-is-captain-birds-eye

 

Na-Nu Na-Nu. You do know that's Popeye, played by, Robin Williams, right? ;-)

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6 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

At the risk of being accused, I see TNZ are now actively trying to discourage the NZ authorities from putting up more public money.

https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/americas-cup/dunphy-denies-daltons-dirty-tricks-dig

How else can you interpret them releasing a poll showing most people wouldn't want that more public money committed?

So TNZ really do want to go overseas. Which means they must have confidence in one bid and want to accept it. 

Plainly that isn't Cork or Spain because there wouldn't be the confidence. So clearly GD wants to go to the ME. And that is why he objects to Dunphy getting involved. He wants to go offshore. Anything else is a threat to his plans

So, why would he not choose his best option?

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Yeah but they aren't interested in legal challenges either.

They may would have gone to Court if there was a 1 - 1 Challenge between ETNZ and INEOS but now because that is off the table and RNZYS/RYS confirmed that it will be a Multi-Challenger Event I don't see them getting involved in the Dalton/Dunphy Saga & Shenanigans.

I agree. I don't believe in the story of LE or EB backing Dunphy to keep the Cup in NZ. It's just as Max said recently, challengers don't care where it will be, they're eager to know where and when and just start their campaign. 

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4 minutes ago, Zaal said:

I agree. I don't believe in the story of LE or EB backing Dunphy to keep the Cup in NZ. It's just as Max said recently, challengers don't care where it will be, they're eager to know where and when and just start their campaign. 

This is what I said numerous times here: The AC Protocol is far and waaay more important then the Venue. The Venue will happen in due course (probably by years end). Challengers have marked the Day November 17th 2021 (Announcement of the AC37 Protocol) since TNZ announced their CoR on March 19th.

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3 hours ago, Zaal said:

So.... GD doesn't know who are the other donors with Dunphy.... but he knows that some of them are in contact with EB and LE. He's sure about this. He doesn't know names and surnames, but he know who they speak with. Incredible, I must say. And I don't get the logic of EB giving money to ETNZ, the Defender, in order to keep the Cup in AKL, then make a challenge and try to win the cup.... against ETNZ. Ehm.... why should he do it? Isn't it easier to just put money into his challenge, and try to win in AKL or wherever will be the AC ? 

Perhaps without the manoeuvring, mind games and manipulation, the electronic transfers ain't so much fun? 

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Bumper edition this morning guys.

Thanks for the entertainment. My french toast fish fingers have gone cold in my excitement over seeing even @Stingray~ starting to come around, to the realisation that GD might not be such a loser after all. ;-)

 

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2 hours ago, Zaal said:

The NYYC isn't enthusiast of the AC75s, that's for sure. They publicly said that should they won, they would change to some more "traditional" boats. 

Without foils you mean? Surely not.

Even IMOCA60s are getting with the programme:

https://www.imoca.org/en/news/news/bureau-vallee-tests-t-rudder-

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17 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

This is what I said numerous times here: The AC Protocol is far and waaay more important then the Venue. The Venue will happen in due course (probably by years end). Challengers have marked the Day November 17th 2021 (Announcement of the AC37 Protocol) since TNZ announced their CoR on March 19th.

I agree to a point.  Yes the AC Protocol is very important for investment and boat design.  Where and at what time of year is important in designing your boat if you follow an optimisation approach.

If Jeddah is really the option for ETNZ then I'm thinking that they are confident that they have solved the light wind foiling issues.

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So Dunphy confirms he phoned NYYC - https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/126443321/americas-cup-team-nz-says-home-defence-backer-mark-dunphy-called-rival-yacht-club

Why the need to contact the NYYC to do "due diligence"?

Dunphy, who heads oil company Greymouth Petroleum, said he had contacted NYYC, to ascertain whether they would take part in a Cup regatta staged in Auckland.

“[That] as part of his due diligence before launching the home defence campaign,” said the spokesman.
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9 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

p.s. I'm not yet a shill but am open to offers if anyone is interested in paying my reassuringly expensive rates

You could very well not be a shill,

But after years on forums like this ... that's the standard shill response.

The second response is something like ... "Who would want to pay for someone to post on site like this with a limited audience?"

My standard counter is ... well it's indexed by Google, if someone searches for a term, brand name etc it gets returns.  Anyway if it is so irrelevant, why do companies pay to advertise here?

This place is riddled with the shills and some don't appear to hide it, they just want to bang out posts for searches to find.

 

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I agree to a point.  Yes the AC Protocol is very important for investment and boat design.  Where and at what time of year is important in designing your boat if you follow an optimisation approach.

If Jeddah is really the option for ETNZ then I'm thinking that they are confident that they have solved the light wind foiling issues.

I heard some talk a few months ago that they would use different mast sizes (similar to SailGP) to make the AC75 Version 2 Boats more suitable to light wind. I am sure there have already being talks with the CoR and other potential Challengers about that.

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So after Dunphy publicly said Daltons claims of discussions with Rival clubs was “false” he now says “oh yeah nah sorry I have been in discussions” does he think this is Dalts first Rodeo? And all those who said “Dalts makes enemies of everyone” well he obviously makes friends too. 

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12 hours ago, Gissie said:

Yet Dalts can claim unnamed sources have told him about a foreign conspiracy and he doesn't need to give details.

As for going to the media, Dalts is using it more than Harry and Megan.

Harry did learn from the master before she died.

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9 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Now that the, Dunphy saga is crushed, can we have some theories about the supposed, Burling/Tuke signings?

You're welcome.

Have you seen anything posted?

B&T did not sign until late in AC36, am expecting the same this time.

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3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

While some of us are guessing that GD likely already has a lucrative deal in Jeddah (or why else is he actively fighting off Auckland?) it will be interesting to see if he (and/or Shoebie and Greene) do try to resurrect Cork and even vaporware Spain. Because if they do make that effort, well then what do we make of things at that point?

Sep 14 ...

Carta1 (ecestaticos.com)

Sep 16 ....

1ec.jpg (ecestaticos.com)

 

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