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The AC 37 has started, news and rumours


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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

Nobody seems to be arguing that GD is not a terrific team leader and a ferocious competitor. A hugely admirable guy in a great many ways. 

But it's a reasonable argument to make, that some wise 'oversight' and input could be good - including for him. 

To what end, exactly? And don't give me that shit about syphoning off money again. 

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On Hamish Ross and the Discrimination Issue: This will be long, pedantic, and legal.  I apologize for the length; read at your own risk. Hamish Ross has recently claimed on multiple occasion

I’m not calling this out for the sake of ostracizing you, nor to play PC police on a forum that is notorious for the opposite of that. I could just hit ignore, delete or whatever. I’m calling this out

I think it's time we put 4 out of misery: as any European knows there is one clear test of whether your country is in Europe: does it take part in the Eurovision song contest. Which is why as everyone

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4 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

By Shanghai, or Anarchist, David? Not sure Shanghai will want to be tagged David's usual rant.

Oops, could be mistaken on that, thanks

edit: yes, mistaken

My colleague, Shanghai Sailor, has offered a characteristically optimistic take on the chaotic negotiations over which city might host the next America’s Cup.

 

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6 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

https://rule69.blog/2021/09/22/game-over/

Magnus Wheatley is RIGHT SPOT ON: RNZYS Commodore Aaron Young should force Mark Dunphy & Hamish Ross, who are both Members of the Squadron, to rescind their Membership effective immediatedly.

The Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron doesn't need "ROGUE MEMBERS" in their Club - Period!

Hardly going to happen mate, the club needs the membership fees. 

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33 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Some insight into where Farmer is coming from:

To finish. One concern that I do have about the next Event, wherever it is held, is the cost of the new proposed foiling monohull.  No one has ever built a 75 foot fully foiling monohull and the sketches that have been released of the proposed boat show what a breath-taking challenge it will be to design and build such a boat and to make it sail.  In my first piece on the America’s Cup, posted on 1 July 2013, I said:

“Grant Dalton has said that the next Event needs to meet budget constraints to attract a good number of challengers.  He must be right on that and choosing a monohull over the technologically complex multihulls will assist in that regard.”

The technological complexity (and associated costs) of the AC multihulls must surely look simple and modest compared with what is now proposed. 

Jim Farmer

4 December 2017

I am no particular fan of Jim Farmer, but this seems to be pretty prescient to me. The AC75s were, in fact, an enormous challenge to design, build, and sail. The cost of that challenge was certainly a factor in only having three challengers. 

 

I enjoyed watching them race and don't have any strong desire to go back to monos, but what he said ultimately proved correct. 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

But I'm afraid that any sailing event, whether in NZ or elsewhere will be an ineffective means of changing that view because it is such a minority sport

However people with power tend to follow such things

 

If true good this is good news

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/amazon-says-it-will-spend-75-billion-on-giant-data-centres-in-auckland/CRD5RLISXWWRXEB5YJXKIT6S5A/

 

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2 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

By Shanghai, or Anarchist, David? Not sure Shanghai will want to be tagged David's usual rant.

Precisely Sailbydate, thanks for pointing that out. No less inaccuracy than one would expect.

What has not been 'crunched' is, as I mentioned in my latest piece' the long term benefits of the waterfront developments for AC 2000/2003 which some 20 years later are still generating various benefits to Aucklanders and the wider New Zealand population. Those benefits include the image of the Auckland waterfront, financial benefits in terms of employment, business profits and tax dollars and social benefit in the more comfortable ambience of that area of Auckland. "Hard numbers', as Anarchist David puts it, really doesn't account for the fiscal value of these benefits. some of which would require a qualified sociologist to attempt to put a value on. Of course it wouldn't benefit the naysayers' argument to include those just as lumping (as I heard) the required waste/storm water improvements in as an AC cost when they were required, and overdue, in any case.

The term "lies, damn lies & statistics" originally credited to Samuel Langhorne Clements seems quite appropriate in this context.

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2 minutes ago, mako23 said:

However people with power tend to follow such things

 

If true good this is good news

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/amazon-says-it-will-spend-75-billion-on-giant-data-centres-in-auckland/CRD5RLISXWWRXEB5YJXKIT6S5A/

 

I guess it is....but do they know that Auckland sits on top of a number of dormant volcanoes?  Or that NZ has energy constraints?  Let alone the constraints of getting that energy to Auckland.

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16 minutes ago, Caecilian said:

 

9 minutes ago, mako23 said:

However people with power tend to follow such things

 

If true good this is good news

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/amazon-says-it-will-spend-75-billion-on-giant-data-centres-in-auckland/CRD5RLISXWWRXEB5YJXKIT6S5A/

 

Amazon most probably won’t pay a cent of corporate tax locally whilst continuing to pay its workers poorly and turning a blind eye to environmental matters so not necessarily good news.

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7 minutes ago, idontwan2know said:

The argument that TNZ's corporate structure is fucked is completely accurate, but Farmer looks like a complete asshole raising it after a failed coup attempt. 

Farmer has raised the point before but yes, it may be a bit late now to prevent (my way or the highway) GD from taking the Cup away from NZ this time.

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6 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I guess it is....but do they know that Auckland sits on top of a number of dormant volcanoes?  Or that NZ has energy constraints?  Let alone the constraints of getting that energy to Auckland.

Ironically another island that has a growing IT industry also has a bit of a volcanic reputation - Iceland.

However in Iceland there is bountiful energy - geothermal. As such the data and server farms can be run entirely using renewable energy with the added advantage that the generally cooler climate requires less energy in the first place - server farms are hot places 

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10 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I guess it is....but do they know that Auckland sits on top of a number of dormant volcanoes?  Or that NZ has energy constraints?  Let alone the constraints of getting that energy to Auckland.

It might be some attempt at load balancing with respect to root server locations and what not.........

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9 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Farmer has raised the point before but yes, it's a bit late now to prevent (my way or the highway) GD from taking it away from NZ. 

Stinger. I'm starting to lose my patience with your sniping. Not that I expect you to give a fuck.

GD's 'my way or the highway' approach in a winning formula. I invite you to tell him how he could do it better - but if Corporate Governance is your best shot, don't bother. 

 

4 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Ironically another island that has a growing IT industry also has a bit of a volcanic reputation - Iceland.

However in Iceland there is bountiful energy - geothermal. As such the data and server farms can be run entirely using renewable energy with the added advantage that the generally cooler climate requires less energy in the first place - server farms are hot places 

Prolly should point out that the Andreas Faultline runs right through, Silicon Valley and that California has its fair share of grid blackouts. They'll certainly feel at home in New Zealand, then. ;-)

Edited by Sailbydate
Balls up.
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12 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Does NZ not have bountiful geothermal possibilities?

 

No. We have some smaller geothermal plants. About 58% of our power is generated by hydropower stations.

But we also burn a lot of shit grade coal from Indonesia. Go figure.

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10 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Not without fucking a few more rivers.

Honest question: how does geothermal power mess with rivers? I understand how hydroelectric power would, but I thought geothermal relied on underground reservoirs.

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28 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Stinger. I'm starting to lose my patience with your sniping. Not that I expect you to give a fuck.

You are right again. The truly scary thing is: What happens when your patience eventually runs out?? :D Please check in occasionally, from whatever mental journey you take?

 

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12 minutes ago, porthos said:

Honest question: how does geothermal power mess with rivers? I understand how hydroelectric power would, but I thought geothermal relied on underground reservoirs.

Geothermal power can utilise a couple of different methods but all primarily drive steam turbines.  So one method is dry steam which is trapped underground to drive the turbines which leaves hot water to dispose of.  Or use super heated water to heat another liquid to turn into steam.  Actually all the current methods have hot water to dispose of.  Generally the cheapest option for that hot water is to pump it into an existing river.  That raises the temperature of that river. 

Also the water carries dissolved salts and even heavy metals.  So they are either extracted or pumped into the river as well.  High mercury levels have been found in fish downstream of the geothermal power station on the Waikato River.

Believe it or not geothermal power plants are NOT COneutral.  COand greenhouse gases such as methane are contained within the super heated water and the process of cooling during generation releases these gases.

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2 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Geothermal power can utilise a couple of different methods but all primarily drive steam turbines.  So one method is dry steam which is trapped underground to drive the turbines which leaves hot water to dispose of.  Or use super heated water to heat another liquid to turn into steam.  Actually all the current methods have hot water to dispose of.  Generally the cheapest option for that hot water is to pump it into an existing river.  That raises the temperature of that river.  Also the water carries dissolved salts and even heavy metals.  So they are either extracted or pumped into the river as well.

Geothermal fluids contain elevated levels of arsenic, mercury, lithium and boron because of the underground contact between hot fluids and rocks. If waste is released into rivers or lakes instead of being injected into the geothermal field, these pollutants can damage aquatic life and make the water unsafe for drinking or irrigation.

A serious environmental effect of the geothermal industry is arsenic pollution. Levels of arsenic in the Waikato River almost always exceed the World Health Organisation standard for drinking water of 0.01 parts per million. Most of the arsenic comes from geothermal waste water discharged from the Wairākei power station. 

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6 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Geothermal power can utilise a couple of different methods but all primarily drive steam turbines.  So one method is dry steam which is trapped underground to drive the turbines which leaves hot water to dispose of.  Or use super heated water to heat another liquid to turn into steam.  Actually all the current methods have hot water to dispose of.  Generally the cheapest option for that hot water is to pump it into an existing river.  That raises the temperature of that river. 

Also the water carries dissolved salts and even heavy metals.  So they are either extracted or pumped into the river as well.  High mercury levels have been found in fish downstream of the geothermal power station on the Waikato River.

Believe it or not geothermal power plants are NOT COneutral.  COand greenhouse gases such as methane are contained within the super heated water and the process of cooling during generation releases these gases.

Thanks for the explanation.

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12 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Geothermal fluids contain elevated levels of arsenic, mercury, lithium and boron because of the underground contact between hot fluids and rocks. If waste is released into rivers or lakes instead of being injected into the geothermal field, these pollutants can damage aquatic life and make the water unsafe for drinking or irrigation.

A serious environmental effect of the geothermal industry is arsenic pollution. Levels of arsenic in the Waikato River almost always exceed the World Health Organisation standard for drinking water of 0.01 parts per million. Most of the arsenic comes from geothermal waste water discharged from the Wairākei power station. 

The Ngawha Power Station in Northland uses a closed circuit system to return all fluids to the geothermal field. The thermal steam and water is used in a heat exchanger to heat Pentane, which then drives a turbine. That way, the contaminates are not released into the environment and the field's fluids are maintained and not drained. I think the system was designed in Israel, IIRC. Nice solution.

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31 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

You are right again. The truly scary thing is: What happens when your patience eventually runs out?? :D Please check in occasionally, from whatever mental journey you take?

 

Good to know. 

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I guess it is....but do they know that Auckland sits on top of a number of dormant volcanoes?  Or that NZ has energy constraints?  Let alone the constraints of getting that energy to Auckland.

You're not kidding about getting that energy to Auckland. Some serious issues there.

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Amazon, yes from my home town Seattle, has truly massive data centers across the Cascade mountain range from here, all hydro-powered from dams on the Columbia River. That power source is not ideal either (let's go, Fusion power!) but it's as close to idyllic as is possible for now.

Both Bezos and Gates are funding a variety of techs that could actually make fusion reactors a reality within a few years and the implications would be... well pretty f'ing stunning.

One example

Nuclear energy: Fusion plant backed by Jeff Bezos to be built in UK - BBC News  

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2 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

 

Precisely Sailbydate, thanks for pointing that out. No less inaccuracy than one would expect.

What has not been 'crunched' is, as I mentioned in my latest piece' the long term benefits of the waterfront developments for AC 2000/2003 which some 20 years later are still generating various benefits to Aucklanders and the wider New Zealand population. Those benefits include the image of the Auckland waterfront, financial benefits in terms of employment, business profits and tax dollars and social benefit in the more comfortable ambience of that area of Auckland. "Hard numbers', as Anarchist David puts it, really doesn't account for the fiscal value of these benefits. some of which would require a qualified sociologist to attempt to put a value on. Of course it wouldn't benefit the naysayers' argument to include those just as lumping (as I heard) the required waste/storm water improvements in as an AC cost when they were required, and overdue, in any case.

The term "lies, damn lies & statistics" originally credited to Samuel Langhorne Clements seems quite appropriate in this context.

A bit of puffery here, every waterfront in every major city with a downtown has been gentrified. It would have happened in AK anyway but the AC gave it an adrenaline shot. 

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16 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Amazon, yes from my home town Seattle, has truly massive data centers across the Cascade mountain range from here, all hydro-powered from dams on the Columbia River. That power source is not ideal either (let's go, Fusion power!) but it's as close to idyllic as is possible for now.

Both Bezos and Gates are funding a variety of techs that could actually make fusion reactors a reality within a few years and the implications would be... well pretty f'ing stunning.

One example

Nuclear energy: Fusion plant backed by Jeff Bezos to be built in UK - BBC News  

Fusion isnt  that the thing that is always just about to work but never does?

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5 minutes ago, Caecilian said:

A bit of puffery here, every waterfront in every major city with a downtown has been gentrified. It would have happened in AK anyway but the AC gave it an adrenaline shot. 

I don't disagree for a moment but to any attempt to land the blame (and bill) at the AC door is just political BS

 

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10 minutes ago, Caecilian said:

A bit of puffery here, every waterfront in every major city with a downtown has been gentrified. It would have happened in AK anyway but the AC gave it an adrenaline shot. 

Correct.  Not only gave it an adrenaline shot but the involvement of private enterprise and the high profile of the event meant that the Council actually got off their arses and delivered.  Meanwhile a few streets up entire blocks of downtown Auckland are a ghost town come cone town with businesses going to the wall.  That was hidden from the TV screens during the AC wasn't it?

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Jeddah has apparently summitted a Government-backed Hosting Bid for AC37 BEFORE the September 17th Deadline writes Yacht Racing Life Editor Justin Grisholm in his latest Post leaving them in Pole Position & clear Frontrunner to host AC37 in three years time.

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39 minutes ago, Caecilian said:

Fusion isnt  that the thing that is always just about to work but never does?

Yes, the joke has always been that free-clean Fusion power is 'just 30 years around the corner.'

 But since I follow that subject I'm reasonably optimistic, there have been some amazing developments recently with all the money now being sunk into innovative research. 

Can you even begin to imagine a planet where we have basically free, clean, UNLIMITED power? Holy crap! 3D floating in air cities? Everything automagic? Like with the invention of electricity it could 'shock' our world into a sudden, higher existence, a humankind evolution.

Go Bezos..

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2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

But we also burn a lot of shit grade coal from Indonesia. Go figure.

I’ll never go figure that, we have plenty of coal and we’re importing coal ?? I wonder what political party might have contributed to this situation. 

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37th America’s Cup | Members Update

 

Please find to follow a statement from the Commodore following a release from Emirates Team New Zealand today surrounding the recent funding discussions for the 37th America’s Cup Defence.   

RNZYS is concerned and disappointed with recent findings on a potential funding arrangement that might have enabled the 37th America’s Cup Defence to be held in Auckland. 

RNZYS first met with Mark Dunphy on 1 July. Since this meeting RNZYS have continued to encourage both Mark Dunphy and Grant Dalton to meet. RNZYS expressed this in writing as recently as Monday of this week.  This would now seem extremely unlikely given what has been found.   

RNZYS as Trustee of the America’s Cup is very aware of the responsibilities that brings.  The RNZYS General Committee is responsible for all decisions the Club makes including anything to do with the America’s Cup and will in due course consider any further action.   

ETNZ and RNZYS have an agreement with ETNZ who is responsible for conducting the defence of the 37th America’s Cup. As our representative team, ETNZ have the full support of the RNZYS. RNZYS has a preference that the defence be held in Auckland with the caveat that there is funding to run a credible defence together with support from Local & Central Government.  

Aaron Young
RNZYS Commodore

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Correct.  Not only gave it an adrenaline shot but the involvement of private enterprise and the high profile of the event meant that the Council actually got off their arses and delivered.  Meanwhile a few streets up entire blocks of downtown Auckland are a ghost town come cone town with businesses going to the wall.  That was hidden from the TV screens during the AC wasn't it?

Auckland doesnt know what it wants to be anymore, retail, office, residential, hospitality..... maybe just whole lot of shitty tourist souvenir shops? 

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31 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

RNZYS has a preference that the defence be held in Auckland with the caveat that there is funding to run a credible defence together with support from Local & Central Government.  

Aaron Young
RNZYS Commodore

Socialism in action

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4 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

This is the boat Farmer races.

Large_Georgia%20Racing1.jpg

And who is Farmer's friend that often sails with him on Georgia as tactician?

Fucking Brad Butterworth. Butterball is always trying to shit stir TNZ and I find it highly unlikely he's not up to something behind the scenes right now. Keep looking over your shoulder buddy. (I couldn't help slotting in a nice photo of Georgia - Bay Week 2014)

butter1.jpeg

butter 2.jpeg

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9 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

Butterball is always trying to shit stir TNZ and I find it highly unlikely he's not up to something behind the scenes right now.

Absolutely.....not necessarily behind the scenes, but front and centre with Bertarelli....Probably still has his Swiss passport.....

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40 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Govts build stadiums for rugby...Are you against that as well?

When its socialised losses and privatised profits then generally yes. That said I will pay a fee to watch an event and i dont mind paying for a mate so if the NZ public has an appetite for it and the funds are there then its a bit like an entry fee?  But to be fair on the stadia front anyone with talent and drive can find the opportunity to play high level rugby in NZ, it appeals to a huge section of the population from kids to retirees. AC sailing meh not so much.

In the end who benefits?

The downtown property developers, the air bnb hosts, Dalts, the RNZYS, a few business owners etc sure some workers get jobs but by and large the main beneficiaries of any govt funds go to land owners, to the haves; ka fucking ching. The have nots get to watch it bread and circuses style, the team ac builders certainly dont get any of the cream unless you think getting the right to do lots of hours at average wages is dibs in. So yes I don't want my tax dollars handed over the billionaires cock waving match when there are schools needing funding and nurses needing training.

Id much rather the Arabs took the whole shitshow to Arabia and sailed it in sand yachts with the Taliban steering than have it back in Auckland with the lineup of media managed robots pumping oil and twiddling playstations with barely a personality among the entire fleet. then have to pay for it to boot.

 

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21 minutes ago, Caecilian said:

When its socialised losses and privatised profits then generally yes. That said I will pay a fee to watch an event and i dont mind paying for a mate so if the NZ public has an appetite for it and the funds are there then its a bit like an entry fee?  But to be fair on the stadia front anyone with talent and drive can find the opportunity to play high level rugby in NZ, it appeals to a huge section of the population from kids to retirees. AC sailing meh not so much.

In the end who benefits?

The downtown property developers, the air bnb hosts, Dalts, the RNZYS, a few business owners etc sure some workers get jobs but by and large the main beneficiaries of any govt funds go to land owners, to the haves; ka fucking ching. The have nots get to watch it bread and circuses style, the team ac builders certainly dont get any of the cream unless you think getting the right to do lots of hours at average wages is dibs in. So yes I don't want my tax dollars handed over the billionaires cock waving match when there are schools needing funding and nurses needing training.

Id much rather the Arabs took the whole shitshow to Arabia and sailed it in sand yachts with the Taliban steering than have it back in Auckland with the lineup of media managed robots pumping oil and twiddling playstations with barely a personality among the entire fleet. then have to pay for it to boot.

 

Oh my god. So wrong on so many levels.

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11 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Mayo and Calder and their CFO have long gone.

Did m&c allocate the 3mil to boat building then? 
 

and with your logic now they are gone it’s still 6 million that won’t be needed this time as it wasn’t used last time. Unless 3 million WAS actually used on the build, which has always been denied. 

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5 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Geothermal fluids contain elevated levels of arsenic, mercury, lithium and boron because of the underground contact between hot fluids and rocks. If waste is released into rivers or lakes instead of being injected into the geothermal field, these pollutants can damage aquatic life and make the water unsafe for drinking or irrigation.

A serious environmental effect of the geothermal industry is arsenic pollution. Levels of arsenic in the Waikato River almost always exceed the World Health Organisation standard for drinking water of 0.01 parts per million. Most of the arsenic comes from geothermal waste water discharged from the Wairākei power station. 

The Wairakei power station was built in 1958, the first of its type (wet steam) in the world. As an early example of the concept later versions have improved the technology to what may be considered acceptable levels.

The Wairakei power station was due to be phased out from 2013, replaced by the Te Mihi geothermal power station.

The Poihipi Power Station was built in 1996 at a nearby site in the same field

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Some points on the GD-Dunphy debacle

1) Whilst it may be that GD has been effective in single-mindedly leading, and that a single controlling leader can be effective (I run my company the same way), when it comes to public money being spent on development etc they tend to like more governance. As a result I have set up a separate company where I am bidding for a govt contract. TNZ's history of being effective but losing a few million here and there rather demonstrates why some might want more governance. Note therefore that Farmer is not being hypocritical by having his own company without such governance. 

2) That is true of all developed democracies. Therefore the continued mud-slinging may not directly lead to an AKL defence, but it will certainly help kill off Cork and Spanish bids by undermining any trust those govts might have had. Though I don't think there was much chance there anyway

3) Thus it is pushed even more towards ME. Lets face it Saudi don't have to much belief in open and honest governance, accountability etc. So it won't put them off.

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1 hour ago, Caecilian said:

When its socialised losses and privatised profits then generally yes.

This opening statement indicates a confused philosophy. 

1 hour ago, Caecilian said:

So yes I don't want my tax dollars handed over the billionaires cock waving match when there are schools needing funding and nurses needing training.

You wanted the losses socialised as per opening statement?

I see enough to know you don't know your arse from your elbow, but good effort for having a go at being somewhat intellectual.....

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12 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Some points on the GD-Dunphy debacle

1) Whilst it may be that GD has been effective in single-mindedly leading, and that a single controlling leader can be effective (I run my company the same way), when it comes to public money being spent on development etc they tend to like more governance. As a result I have set up a separate company where I am bidding for a govt contract. TNZ's history of being effective but losing a few million here and there rather demonstrates why some might want more governance. Note therefore that Farmer is not being hypocritical by having his own company without such governance. 

2) That is true of all developed democracies. Therefore the continued mud-slinging may not directly lead to an AKL defence, but it will certainly help kill off Cork and Spanish bids by undermining any trust those govts might have had. Though I don't think there was much chance there anyway

3) Thus it is pushed even more towards ME. Lets face it Saudi don't have to much belief in open and honest governance, accountability etc. So it won't put them off.

How you run your company is your business.

How Team NZ runs their business is theirs.

As Greg Horton has stated "Team NZ's business is winning the Americas Cup. The Team has won it twice, therefor they are achieving the goal the company exists to achieve.

Its sport. Political agenda's and governance are not for sports teams to judge.

 

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6 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

How you run your company is your business.

How Team NZ runs their business is theirs.

As Greg Horton has stated "Team NZ's business is winning the Americas Cup. The Team has won it twice, therefor they are achieving the goal the company exists to achieve.

Its sport. Political agenda's and governance are not for sports teams to judge.

 

Its their business right up until they ask another organisation for money that isn't for tangible products they can hand over at the time, Then it is that organisation's business too.

After all, if you are asking a Govt for money - THEIR business is not winning. They are giving the money to bring opportunity to their city. So they want to know that their objectives will be met. And that is where TNZs governance is demonstrably weak from last time. Firstly the objectives were not met (easy to blame Covid but they weren't met so the track record is not there)  and some of the money went missing on a con, and some was spent on something the donor of that money thought it shouldn't have been.

You only care about winning, any city/govt money cares about other things. But I know you can't comprehend that

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15 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Its their business right up until they ask another organisation for money that isn't for tangible products they can hand over at the time, Then it is that organisation's business too.

After all, if you are asking a Govt for money - THEIR business is not winning. They are giving the money to bring opportunity to their city. So they want to know that their objectives will be met. And that is where TNZs governance is demonstrably weak from last time. Firstly the objectives were not met (easy to blame Covid but they weren't met so the track record is not there)  and some of the money went missing on a con, and some was spent on something the donor of that money thought it shouldn't have been.

You only care about winning, any city/govt money cares about other things. But I know you can't comprehend that

From 2013.

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9 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Firstly the objectives were not met (easy to blame Covid but they weren't met so the track record is not there)  and some of the money went missing on a con, and some was spent on something the donor of that money thought it shouldn't have been

Bollocks.  Covid and the associated border closure smashed any chance of chance of overseas tourism.  Inter regional travel i.e. domestic travel was severely curtailed.  I take it you weren't in NZ at the time?

The money loss was caused by the slack management of Mayo & Calders CFO.  Hardly an ETNZ mistake.

As for the inter company charge the subsequent forensic audit found no wrong doing and that it was legitimate.

 

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Dunphy and his plan turning to shit is the best thing that could have happened. There is now no chance that the event will be in Auckland. (Unless no one else even bids, which would be a bummer for us all). The team is now free to relocate their HQ to some place else in the world and take precious with them. The beginning of what they have planned for a long time. An event that is all about performing, in a circus sort of way, that finding a way for a self funding event is the way forward. Red bull on the water, teams that have no country link, just try and appeal to some young fans. Puppet yacht clubs pretending they care for anything but the money they are bunged to put their bungee to a team.

Be interesting to see how it plays out. Sort of.

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1 minute ago, enigmatically2 said:

And the relevance of that was 4U? Sweet FA

From the horses mouth.

The fact is, Team NZ exists to win the AC, thats the objective. Thats the only objective.

The Objective WAS met. Twice.

Governments are effectively, sponsors. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Note therefore that Farmer is not being hypocritical by having his own company without such governance. 

Perhaps Farmer could do with some more professional governance or is he deliberately running his company as a tax loss?  As in funding his participation in yacht racing behind the charade of being a yacht development business?

Farmer may well be genuine in saying his motivation is all about NZ and sailing but his promotion of his own self interest in a particular design of potential AC baots tends to suggest otherwise.

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2 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Dunphy and his plan turning to shit is the best thing that could have happened. There is now no chance that the event will be in Auckland. (Unless no one else even bids, which would be a bummer for us all). The team is now free to relocate their HQ to some place else in the world and take precious with them. The beginning of what they have planned for a long time. An event that is all about performing, in a circus sort of way, that finding a way for a self funding event is the way forward. Red bull on the water, teams that have no country link, just try and appeal to some young fans. Puppet yacht clubs pretending they care for anything but the money they are bunged to put their bungee to a team.

Be interesting to see how it plays out. Sort of.

For all the pissing and moaning you do, you'll be watching every minute of it. Which says more about you, then the team.

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3 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Dunphy and his plan turning to shit is the best thing that could have happened. There is now no chance that the event will be in Auckland. (Unless no one else even bids, which would be a bummer for us all). The team is now free to relocate their HQ to some place else in the world and take precious with them. The beginning of what they have planned for a long time. An event that is all about performing, in a circus sort of way, that finding a way for a self funding event is the way forward. Red bull on the water, teams that have no country link, just try and appeal to some young fans. Puppet yacht clubs pretending they care for anything but the money they are bunged to put their bungee to a team.

Be interesting to see how it plays out. Sort of.

Very good description of the America's Cup.

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1 minute ago, enigmatically2 said:

FFS I just checked and NZ's literacy rate is 99% . So how come we get 4U and Kate who are both totally incapable of comprehending a small section of text?

Who is 4U? looks like its you that should improve her literacy.

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6 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

 

Governments are effectively, sponsors. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

No they are not. They have other objectives and just winning is not sufficient (or even necessary). Hence why they want governance. Is that really so fucking difficult to comprehend?

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2 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

No they are not. They have other objectives and just winning is not sufficient (or even necessary). Hence why they want governance. Is that really so fucking difficult to comprehend?

The blind will never see. So he will never comprehend.

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Just now, enigmatically2 said:

4U is just a simple abbreviation

Short for "For you are a dick"

Ah I see. Well, since you're a nameless, faceless, anonymous internet poster, calling another person who is also a nameless, faceless anonymous internet poster a "Dick" seems like a fairly childish thing to do, not to mention, its a waste of time, as you don't know me, and I don't know you.

But it does show, I have pushed you to the point where you have no worthwhile contribution to the conversation so you have to resort to petty little insults, like a 3 year old girl. What ever floats your boat.

So I'll take that as a win.

 

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9 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

FFS I just checked and NZ's literacy rate is 99% . So how come we get 4U and Kate who are both totally incapable of comprehending a small section of text?

Actually our standards have been dropping for a while, which would explain why these two kids find reading and understanding so difficult. Their young age would also explain the arrogance of their self belief.

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15 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

No they are not. They have other objectives and just winning is not sufficient (or even necessary). Hence why they want governance. Is that really so fucking difficult to comprehend?

Yes they are.

Both Governments and sponsors have objectives. They may be different objectives, but objectives none the less.

Sponsors and Governments are investors. They invest in the team.

Even the NZ government said last time, they were merely a sponsor of the team.

But go ahead, tell Dalts he's not doing his job properly, even though he's won the Cup twice, and while you're at it, go and tell Jacinda she doesn't know what she's doing either, even though she won a landslide election, and that she should listen to an anonymous Boomer SA internet poster. Let me know when you're gonna do it so I can come and watch you get laughed out of the room.

 

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8 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Actually our standards have been dropping for a while, which would explain why these two kids find reading and understanding so difficult. Their young age would also explain the arrogance of their self belief.

Nah it just means Boomers like you, ya old bastard that are too set in their ways and aren't willing to change and adapt with the times, are holding the rest of us back. 

 

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35 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Nah it just means Boomers like you, ya old bastard that are too set in their ways and aren't willing to change and adapt with the times, are holding the rest of us back. 

 

But I have adapted. The team/business has decided it no longer needs my support. I am happy to adapt and go along with their request.

As for the silly boomer quip, boomers haven't been running the country for a while now. Still waiting to see it improve.

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45 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Yes they are.

Both Governments and sponsors have objectives. They may be different objectives, but objectives none the less.

Sponsors and Governments are investors. They invest in the team.

Even the NZ government said last time, they were merely a sponsor of the team.

But go ahead, tell Dalts he's not doing his job properly, even though he's won the Cup twice, and while you're at it, go and tell Jacinda she doesn't know what she's doing either, even though she won a landslide election, and that she should listen to an anonymous Boomer SA internet poster. Let me know when you're gonna do it so I can come and watch you get laughed out of the room.

 

1) Are you finally getting it that their objectives are different? Woo-hoo

2) Anyone can sponsor the team, but they are asking Cork, Valencia etc to put up a large fee to host. That is different from being a sponsor

3) I don't have GD's number, but I will say that he won't get a good enough deal from Cork or Spain. And if he takes it to Saudi then I think that is shit as do many others on here. If I'm wrong about Cork and Spain then I will admit I am wrong at that time. 

p.s. I'm not a boomer, but since you have never admitted anything else you got wrong, I doubt you will start now

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4 hours ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

And who is Farmer's friend that often sails with him on Georgia as tactician?

Fucking Brad Butterworth. Butterball is always trying to shit stir TNZ and I find it highly unlikely he's not up to something behind the scenes right now. Keep looking over your shoulder buddy. (I couldn't help slotting in a nice photo of Georgia - Bay Week 2014)

butter1.jpeg

butter 2.jpeg

BOOM

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If GD brings the Cup to KSA, he wins a ticket to NY Supreme Court 40 seconds after the announcement. 

Could NYCSC at that point impose the location of the 37AC? @Rennmaus I seem to remember that Valencia was imposed to Alinghi and Oracle by them. Am I right ?  

From the U.S Department of State:

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/saudi-arabia-travel-advisory.html

 

"Do not travel to Saudi Arabia due to COVID-19. Reconsider travel to Saudi Arabia due to the threat of missile and drone attacks on civilian facilities. Exercise increased caution in Saudi Arabia due to terrorism."

"Do not travel to the following locations due to missile and drone attacks and terrorism:

  • Within 50 miles of the Saudi-Yemen border, as well as the cities of Abha, Jizan, Najran, and Khamis Mushayt;
  • Abha airport;
  • Qatif in the Eastern Province and its suburbs, including Awamiyah.

U.S. government personnel must adhere to the above travel restrictions.  As such, the U.S. government has limited ability to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens in these locations.

Missile and drone attacks perpetrated by Iran and Iran-supported militant groups represent a significant threat. The Islamic Republic of Iran has supplied Yemen-based Houthis and other regional proxy groups with weapons to conduct destructive and sometimes lethal attacks using drones, missiles, and rockets against a variety of Saudi sites, including critical infrastructure, civilian airports, military bases, and energy facilities throughout the country, as well as vessels in Red Sea shipping lanes. Recent attacks were aimed at targets throughout Saudi Arabia including Riyadh, Jeddah, Dhahran, Jizan, Khamis Mushayt, the civilian airport in Abha, Al Kharj, military installations in the south, as well as oil and gas facilities.

Debris from intercepted drones and missiles represents a significant risk to civilian areas and populations. Militant groups continue to plan and conduct attacks against locations in Saudi Arabia. U.S. citizens living and working near military bases and critical civilian infrastructure, particularly near the border with Yemen, are at heightened risk of missile, drone, and rocket attacks.

Terrorist groups continue plotting possible attacks in Saudi Arabia. Terrorists may attack with little or no warning, targeting tourist locations, transportation hubs, markets/shopping malls, and local government facilities. Terrorists have targeted both Saudi and Western government interests, mosques and other religious sites (both Sunni and Shia), and places frequented by U.S. citizens and other Westerners."

 

 

 

 

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