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The AC 37 has started, news and rumours


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5 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Is that a rhetorical question?

With the venue selection clusterfuck, duplicate incompatible role and whiff of dirty laundry exposed in the Dunphy exchange, alienated Kiwi government - the Marketing Manager of a multinational ough to be crazy to propose a large sponsorship. And not that this would change much, but even small private donations by nationals are out due to the demonstrated callousness.

So, the only way out is running the cheapest possible show in AKL upgrading Te Rehutai. This should also mean that changes to the Rule will be kept to a minimum, forget about making the boat cheaper

Yep what Co would want to get involved in the current scenario especially in these Covid times with NZ seemingly having no end game for coming out of lockdowns. (Do they open up on 70/80% vaccinated?)

Going battery power and removing grinders lowers costs significantly and might already be on the cards. The new AC 40 class is where potential sponsors might come in and help keep the AC alive until the real thing, also major cost and time  savings not having to move the 75's around the planet.

My question really is why the current AC75 event needs to be so much more expensive to run in terms of infrastructure than Sail GP. If they pitched as a longer running Sail GP event then more doors might open.

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On Hamish Ross and the Discrimination Issue: This will be long, pedantic, and legal.  I apologize for the length; read at your own risk. Hamish Ross has recently claimed on multiple occasion

I’m not calling this out for the sake of ostracizing you, nor to play PC police on a forum that is notorious for the opposite of that. I could just hit ignore, delete or whatever. I’m calling this out

Hilarious to watch Kiwis who've been around since AC35 twist themselves into intellectual pretzels to give ETNZ a pass on what they screamed bloody murder about when Oracle did it. Even Oracle di

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11 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Is that a rhetorical question?

With the venue selection clusterfuck, duplicate incompatible role and whiff of dirty laundry exposed in the Dunphy exchange, alienated Kiwi government - the Marketing Manager of a multinational ough to be crazy to propose a large sponsorship. And not that this would change much, but even small private donations by nationals are out due to the demonstrated callousness.

So, the only way out is running the cheapest possible show in AKL upgrading Te Rehutai. This should also mean that changes to the Rule will be kept to a minimum, forget about making the boat cheaper

You are hilarious! If anything Dunphy should be blamed for the last few weeks resulting in ETNZ delaying the Announcement of the AC37 Venue by pulling a stupid stunt to get the original agreed CoR replaced.

I am saying this again just like last week: Dunphy & Hamish Ross are Members of the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron AND in any other Yacht Club around the world if they would pull a similar bonaheaded stupid idea like they did by trying to replace the agreed CoR through a Court Challenge & Rival Yacht Club they would be shown the door and immediatedly be forced to rescind their Membership. And if Aaron Young would have some guts he would have done it.

Some longtime ETNZ Backers like Sir Stephen Tindall should demand Young to release Dunphy & Ross from the Membership of the Club!

The RNZYS don't need "ROGUE MEMBERS"!

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11 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

Going battery power and removing grinders lowers costs significantly and might already be on the cards. 

Technically, that’s a minimal change. Already implemented on LR boat 1 at the initial peak of the Covid epidemic, so that safe distance between crew members could be maintained. This was a condition in order to keep sailing in Cagliari

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10 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Surprised there have been so few comments, it's an interesting read.

Example

It is now a problem for Team NZ that Dunphy insists the money is here and the government offered a generous package of support.

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Anyone who takes Dunphy at his word that the money is there really need their head to be examined. It isn't there and even if it is if I was Grant Dalton I wouldn't take any money from Mister Dunphy!

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1 hour ago, Xlot said:

Is that a rhetorical question?

With the venue selection clusterfuck, duplicate incompatible role and whiff of dirty laundry exposed in the Dunphy exchange, alienated Kiwi government - the Marketing Manager of a multinational ough to be crazy to propose a large sponsorship. And not that this would change much, but even small private donations by nationals are out due to the demonstrated callousness.

Nothing there...

Dunphy is the mug, GD gave him a chance to bail without calling him out, but Dunphy perservered and so GD followed through with a clear vindication for his trepidation.

Alienated Kiwi govt? You might be confusing NZ govt with Auckland Council?

Marketing Manager/Sponsorship? Dunno yet.

Small private donations? Aside from Dunphygate, citation please.

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10 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

bold mine..

And secondly, he might look for a successor. Dunphy’s inclusion in the NYYC email from Hamish Ross is an own-goal that will haunt him, whether or not Ross was right or wrong to include him in that communication. Interest in that level of forensic detail is nil. He has been damaged by that revelation.

But there are other wealthy, ambitious New Zealanders with the desire to attach their names to this big-name event that, love it or loathe it, has wormed its way into the NZ psyche.

Some of them may even know something of how to manage the mercurial aggression of leaders in the dinosaur mould of Grant Dalton. Some may also have learnt a few tricks about handling the media.

It will take that kind of combination to revive an Auckland bid for the cup. But until a credible international host venue turns up, it’s too soon to read last rites on the Auckland option.

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47 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

It will take that kind of combination to revive an Auckland bid for the cup. But until a credible international host venue turns up, it’s too soon to read last rites on the Auckland option.

Why would anyone want to get involved in this shit fight. You either hand over tons of money with no strings or oversight or the team goes all Rambo on you.

Why would any self respecting rich bastard have any interest in getting abused publicly like has happened to Dunphy? It must also be making any city still interested, assuming there are any, getting a bit of the chills with proceeding.

Sad to see as, despite what some think, I do wish the team well and would hate to see them fail because of a failure to sell the event. Perhaps someone needs to try and get the boss to zip it for a while and get a front man that can at least pretend to listen, then find an excuse to turn things down.

Going all Apocalypse Now with the napalm on any bridge is not a great idea when you have no other real options available.

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54 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Why would anyone want to get involved in this shit fight. You either hand over tons of money with no strings or oversight or the team goes all Rambo on you.

Why would any self respecting rich bastard have any interest in getting abused publicly like has happened to Dunphy? It must also be making any city still interested, assuming there are any, getting a bit of the chills with proceeding.

Sad to see as, despite what some think, I do wish the team well and would hate to see them fail because of a failure to sell the event. Perhaps someone needs to try and get the boss to zip it for a while and get a front man that can at least pretend to listen, then find an excuse to turn things down.

Going all Apocalypse Now with the napalm on any bridge is not a great idea when you have no other real options available.

The potential threat of legal action, be it in Auckland or NY, could make venues think twice too about how solid the advertised event timeline is. 

I give Auckland an at least 70% chance of being the venue at this point since instead of any venues knocking at the door it sure looks like the very opposite is happening.

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

The potential threat of legal action, be it in Auckland or NY, could make venues think twice too about how solid the advertised event timeline is. 

I give Auckland an at least 70% chance of being the venue at this point since instead of any venues knocking at the door it sure looks like the very opposite is happening.

Legal action is very unlikely at this point. Not that I am a legal type, but I have stayed in several Holiday Inn's.

As for Auckland, the odds are very low. Where would the money come from? I just don't see local rich listers wanting much to do with this now. Plus the CEO would need to consume some humble pie and spin the shit out of his change in heart.

Could there still be a hidden possibility? China perhaps making a sly bid? Although their emperor seems to be taking a large dump on the super rich, so maybe not.

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10 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Legal action is very unlikely at this point. Not that I am a legal type, but I have stayed in several Holiday Inn's.

As for Auckland, the odds are very low. Where would the money come from? I just don't see local rich listers wanting much to do with this now. Plus the CEO would need to consume some humble pie and spin the shit out of his change in heart.

Could there still be a hidden possibility? China perhaps making a sly bid? Although their emperor seems to be taking a large dump on the super rich, so maybe not.

Seems like Auckland is the only place with a combination of funds offered and infrastructure too. It is not like GD had a bunch of serious bids on Sep 17 where he could choose 'the best one'  ... He apparently had none, or why the postponement? 

 

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32 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Seems like Auckland is the only place with a combination of funds offered and infrastructure too. It is not like GD had a bunch of serious bids on Sep 17 where he could choose 'the best one'  ... He apparently had none, or why the postponement? 

 

I tend to agree. He may have over played his hand on the claims of how the event is worth squillions of dollars to multiple venues. Unfortunately for him Covid has changed people's perceptions somewhat, hundreds of millions to host a yacht race (which is how most will look at it) between private, pro teams is not high on the list of good ideas.

But can he afford Auckland? His reason for leaving is there isn't enough money, so how can he come back without finding a sponsor that is willing to accept the no strings attached conditions. No money ever has no strings, even Emirates would have had some hooks in it, which may be why he needs the extra cash.

So Auckland is a long shot at best. Humble pie, no cash - the CEO is more likely to just walk and blame it all on the government, city Council and Dunphy of course. Make himself out to be the victim, such a big thing these days, and stroll off into the sunset, ego held high.

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6 minutes ago, Gissie said:

I tend to agree. He may have over played his hand on the claims of how the event is worth squillions of dollars to multiple venues.

Claims? What claims? When did Dalton claim this? To whom did he claim this?

Unfortunately for him Covid has changed people's perceptions somewhat, hundreds of millions to host a yacht race (which is how most will look at it) between private, pro teams is not high on the list of good ideas.

Auckland presented an immediate proposal. They themselves said they were keen to host the Cup again.

But can he afford Auckland? His reason for leaving is there isn't enough money, so how can he come back without finding a sponsor that is willing to accept the no strings attached conditions. No money ever has no strings, even Emirates would have had some hooks in it, which may be why he needs the extra cash

A lot of assumption and no fact.

So Auckland is a long shot at best. As it has been since the end of the negotiation period.

Humble pie, no cash - the CEO is more likely to just walk and blame it all on the government, city Council and Dunphy of course. Make himself out to be the victim, such a big thing these days, and stroll off into the sunset, ego held high.

Ugh your ugly jealous side is showing again...

 

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5 hours ago, chesirecat said:

Yep what Co would want to get involved in the current scenario especially in these Covid times with NZ seemingly having no end game for coming out of lockdowns. (Do they open up on 70/80% vaccinated?)

Not true at all.

  1. NZ has had less lockdown that just about every other country that bothered with control.
  2. We do have an end-game, it's been linked to multiple times in this forum, and yes it relates to vaccinations and staged border control. But it doesn't include the needless deaths of tens of thousands of our citizens.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/government-sets-out-plan-reconnect-new-zealanders-world

 

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12 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

 

Jealous, :lol:. Who would I be jealous of? I have had a pretty amazing life, to me anyway. Have an amazing family, again to me. If I popped my clogs tomorrow I would have no regrets.

So why the silly claim. Oh, shit, it is Randumb's bro, takeone4theteam. Now you I could certainly see as jealous and putting that on others. Give Lifeline a quick call, they may care.

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

Jealous, :lol:. Who would I be jealous of? I have had a pretty amazing life, to me anyway. Have an amazing family, again to me. If I popped my clogs tomorrow I would have no regrets.

So why the silly claim. Oh, shit, it is Randumb's bro, takeone4theteam. Now you I could certainly see as jealous and putting that on others. Give Lifeline a quick call, they may care.

Blah blah blah, who would you be jealous of? Grant Dalton (obviously) given all your claims of him being greedy and turning his back on his country.

You and I both know that is not the case. A successful leader prioritises his team's needs first, which is exactly what he's doing. Its his job, his job he gets paid to do (which coincidentally is another reason people are getting their knickers in a knot about) So he bought a boat, does it matter? He's not the first CEO of a business, or a team, or a company to purchase and own a boat. Is it nice? Yes. The AC isn't Daltons only gig, so he's probably (obviously) saved up enough cash to live the lifestyle he has. He's good at his job, and successful. His team has been successful, so he's worth every cent.

He has also proved he is extremely patriotic and a proud Kiwi. He won the Whitbread on NZ Endeavour and the Americas Cup for Team NZ. He brought a team back from the bottom of the barrel to the top of the mountain.

FFS let it go. Dalts is a highly respected sailor, he's a proven and effective leader and a winner. He started at the bottom and got to the top of the mountain. He earned everything he has achieved.

 

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12 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Blah blah blah, who would you be jealous of? Grant Dalton (obviously) given all your claims of him being greedy and turning his back on his country.

You and I both know that is not the case. A successful leader prioritises his team's needs first, which is exactly what he's doing. Its his job, his job he gets paid to do (which coincidentally is another reason people are getting their knickers in a knot about) So he bought a boat, does it matter? He's not the first CEO of a business, or a team, or a company to purchase and own a boat. Is it nice? Yes. The AC isn't Daltons only gig, so he's probably (obviously) saved up enough cash to live the lifestyle he has. He's good at his job, and successful. His team has been successful, so he's worth every cent.

He has also proved he is extremely patriotic and a proud Kiwi. He won the Whitbread on NZ Endeavour and the Americas Cup for Team NZ. He brought a team back from the bottom of the barrel to the top of the mountain.

FFS let it go. Dalts is a highly respected sailor, he's a proven and effective leader and a winner. He started at the bottom and got to the top of the mountain. He earned everything he has achieved.

 

No way I am jealous of Dalton. The price paid to do what he has done and achieved is to high for me. I take my hat off to his achievements without a problem, he has done some amazing things, but my family and personal life are my priorities.

Now, after years of support, he has disappointed me with his choices. He is running a business, as you continually point out. He wants to win no matter the cost, which is fine. If that is what he needs to do he can go for it, but he shouldn't let the door hit him on the out to the plane. 

Your opinion is different, fine with me. However I would prefer you refrained from making shit up just to fit your dream of what is acceptable or not.

Anyway, wasting my time and breath, you will vomit more bile for questioning the team and their choices.

See ya, have a good day.

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21 minutes ago, Gissie said:

No way I am jealous of Dalton. The price paid to do what he has done and achieved is to high for me. I take my hat off to his achievements without a problem, he has done some amazing things, but my family and personal life are my priorities.

Now, after years of support, he has disappointed me with his choices. He is running a business, as you continually point out. He wants to win no matter the cost, which is fine. If that is what he needs to do he can go for it, but he shouldn't let the door hit him on the out to the plane. 

Your opinion is different, fine with me. However I would prefer you refrained from making shit up just to fit your dream of what is acceptable or not.

Anyway, wasting my time and breath, you will vomit more bile for questioning the team and their choices.

See ya, have a good day.

Fine. Next time instead of disrespecting someone who has clearly earned and achieved success, and worked hard for everything he has done, just say "I am disappointed with his choice" instead of calling him greedy and saying shit like "He is turning his back on his country" which he has clearly proven is not the case.

His priority is his team, and the guys that make up his team. Winning is the only way to achieve that. His team exists for one purpose... to win. 

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3 hours ago, rh3000 said:

Not true at all.

  1. NZ has had less lockdown that just about every other country that bothered with control.
  2. We do have an end-game, it's been linked to multiple times in this forum, and yes it relates to vaccinations and staged border control. But it doesn't include the needless deaths of tens of thousands of our citizens.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/government-sets-out-plan-reconnect-new-zealanders-world

 

Not arguing with it but the "travellers" are New Zealanders or at least that's how I read it. Not tourists, not America's Cup spectators?  

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35 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Fine. Next time instead of disrespecting someone who has clearly earned and achieved success, and worked hard for everything he has done, just say "I am disappointed with his choice" instead of calling him greedy and saying shit like "He is turning his back on his country" which he has clearly proven is not the case.

His priority is his team, and the guys that make up his team. Winning is the only way to achieve that. His team exists for one purpose... to win. 

Yes, his priority is his team. To me he has definitely put his team above his supporters and the country. He has developed an expensive vessel and wants to make the event self sustaining so he no longer has to try and find funds. In particular, funds with no strings.

So his desire to win trumps, even the long term viability of the team. He is turning his back on the country that supported him for money and the desire to win three in a row. He is in this position because of his own decisions, not the NZ Government, not the Auckland City Council, but Mr Dalton.

The day he stops winning will be the end of the team forever. Kiwis will never fall for the 'bringing the cup home' spin again. Apart from you of course.

This is my opinion of course. Unfortunately, these days differing opinions are no longer acceptable. You show this with your responses, the claim of me being a traitor or a troll.

So I will ignore you from now. I don't use the ignore button because even posters like Randumb say intelligent things sometimes. You are yet to do so and I will just scroll on by when I see your name.

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I had missed the nugget in here 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/241935/Gladwells-Line-Irish-caned-over-Cup-indecision

That the Irish govt received a letter from TNZ saying that they had won the hosting rights, and that when the Irish asked for 6 months, they expected to be told to feck off. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

I had missed the nugget in here 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/241935/Gladwells-Line-Irish-caned-over-Cup-indecision

That the Irish govt received a letter from TNZ saying that they had won the hosting rights, and that when the Irish asked for 6 months, they expected to be told to feck off. 

Dalts is patently not subtle enough to take a hint :D

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17 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

They also will reduce the Sailors on the AC75 Class and likely have more OD Elements.

So, go home buddy!

Adding a second program will reduce the sailors in the AC75 class?  How so?  The AC doesn't need more or any OD elements it is a design competition as well as an on the water race.  My guess is that ETNZ will receive some sort of cut of the AC40 design/build/race.  The window dressing of women and youth in the AC is crap and everyone know it.  This stopped being about racing a while ago and now it is strictly a corporate entity/ies that have hijacked the AC brand for their own enrichment.  If any of Schyuler's relatives are still alive they should revoke the trust.

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9 hours ago, Gissie said:

Yes, his priority is his team. To me he has definitely put his team above his supporters and the country. He has developed an expensive vessel and wants to make the event self sustaining so he no longer has to try and find funds. In particular, funds with no strings.

So his desire to win trumps, even the long term viability of the team. He is turning his back on the country that supported him for money and the desire to win three in a row. He is in this position because of his own decisions, not the NZ Government, not the Auckland City Council, but Mr Dalton.

The day he stops winning will be the end of the team forever. Kiwis will never fall for the 'bringing the cup home' spin again. Apart from you of course.

This is my opinion of course. Unfortunately, these days differing opinions are no longer acceptable. You show this with your responses, the claim of me being a traitor or a troll.

So I will ignore you from now. I don't use the ignore button because even posters like Randumb say intelligent things sometimes. You are yet to do so and I will just scroll on by when I see your name.

This makes no sense. First, if he doesn't prioritise his team, the team is gone, his supporters have nothing to support, so by keeping the doors opening, he keeps his supporters.

He declined the GOVERNMENT offer because it wasn't enough to give him confidence that they could successfully defend. 

It was the Government, and in effect, the country who turned its back on the team - for good reason however. Covid as we all know has turned the world upside down. Many Kiwi sports stars are leaving NZ because of the Government's hardline stance on border closures/ restrictions and lack of MIQ space. Kiwi UFC stars Israel Adesanya and Dan Hooker are leaving because of it. The AB's are away for months because they just can't get back until MIQ spaces open up.

So, for once, consider the global situation and how it affects NZ, and its hardline stance on Covid, and how it afffects NZ sport, because thats why Dalton is doing what he is doing.

Its not because of Greed, or traitorous ambition. Its because he has to do what he has to for his team, so that when NZ does open up again, they can defend AC38 in Auckland.

 

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10 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Not arguing with it but the "travellers" are New Zealanders or at least that's how I read it. Not tourists, not America's Cup spectators?  

No, "traveller" does not necessarily mean NZers only. Immigration had placed restrictions on entry to ensure NZers have priority access to MIQ slots, but whether you are a NZer or not has no effect on your risk profile. It's about where you are traveling from.

The reconnecting policy is about risk profiling, and in the cases that there isn't a need for MIQ then the need to prioritise NZ citizens will not exist.

BTW - International tourism numbers is not necessarily a primary concern for potential sponsors - international coverage and reach is typically far more important.

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5 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

 

BTW - International tourism numbers is not necessarily a primary concern for potential sponsors - international coverage and reach is typically far more important.

And yet covid is blamed by some for poor financial performance of AC36 and inability of of GD to get finance in place for AC37.

 

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I heard a lot in this Thread that Auckland has the Infrastructure to host AC37 and others don't. I disagree, they have it only for 3-4 Teams.

Auckland wouldn't have the Infrastructure to host ETNZ, INEOS, LR, ALINGHI, AM and S&S/NYYC plus the Women's and Youth AC! The Cities Waterfront is too small even with the upgrades they made for AC36.

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44 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

And yet covid is blamed by some for poor financial performance of AC36 and inability of of GD to get finance in place for AC37.

 

The original Impact reports put an enormous figure to the value of (supposedly) 160 Super Yachts coming and splurging and getting big refits, and etc. The number was something like NZD400M!

Not having international tourists there would have had some impact but surely nothing at all as big as the projected SY spend..

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41 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

And yet covid is blamed by some for poor financial performance of AC36 and inability of of GD to get finance in place for AC37.

 

Yes - it hurt Auckland Council's ROI - which *was* dependent on tourism. That's not sponsorship.

Globally COVID also hurt the likes of Emirates too, irrespective of NZs particular situation.

Its worth noting that AC36 was one of the few international sporting events that could happen at the time with crowds.

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6 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Yes - it hurt Auckland Council's ROI - which *was* dependent on tourism. That's not sponsorship.

Globally COVID also hurt the likes of Emirates too, irrespective of NZs particular situation.

Its worth noting that AC36 was one of the few international sporting events that could happen at the time with crowds.

But it has been asserted that TNZ did not meet Emirates targets and that is one reason why they are short of money now. Emirates are sponsors and the failure to meet their targets for the AC is completely separate from their wider financial suffering. 

That appears to be why TNZ need so much financially from hosting, they didn't get as much from Emirates or may even owe them some

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3 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

But it has been asserted that TNZ did not meet Emirates targets and that is one reason why they are short of money now. Emirates are sponsors and the failure to meet their targets for the AC is completely separate from their wider financial suffering. 

That appears to be why TNZ need so much financially from hosting, they didn't get as much from Emirates or may even owe them some

Citation please 

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1 hour ago, rh3000 said:

No, "traveller" does not necessarily mean NZers only. Immigration had placed restrictions on entry to ensure NZers have priority access to MIQ slots, but whether you are a NZer or not has no effect on your risk profile. It's about where you are traveling from.

The reconnecting policy is about risk profiling, and in the cases that there isn't a need for MIQ then the need to prioritise NZ citizens will not exist.

BTW - International tourism numbers is not necessarily a primary concern for potential sponsors - international coverage and reach is typically far more important.

It was the "self isolation" that made me think that. Trusting foreigners to do that.  But maybe ankle bracelets or something? But US people would be in MIQ I assume. Maybe the super yacht owners get some special arrangements like stay on their yachts.

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19 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

But it has been asserted that TNZ did not meet Emirates targets and that is one reason why they are short of money now.

I don't recall either what the cite was but do remember reading something along those lines too.

You'd think that the targets (sell-points) would include things like the ACWS events - which may help explain ETNZ's enthusiasm for running an event in Portsmouth - despite Prada not wanting any part of it.

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19 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

I don't recall either what the cite was but do remember reading something along those lines too.

Why are we not suprised... :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I heard a lot in this Thread that Auckland has the Infrastructure to host AC37 and others don't. I disagree, they have it only for 3-4 Teams.

Auckland wouldn't have the Infrastructure to host ETNZ, INEOS, LR, ALINGHI, AM and S&S/NYYC plus the Women's and Youth AC! The Cities Waterfront is too small even with the upgrades they made for AC36.

I suspect they can find the space, and at this point, the final number of players could well be smaller than the potential number we see now.

That is usually the case in the AC.

The one design boats used for preliminary events can all share the same space, or they might be tagged onto the “parent” teams spaces.

We also don’t know how many of these sideshow events will materialize at the end of the day.

You are looking at obstacles that are probably not that significant compared to other issues.

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2 hours ago, rh3000 said:

Yes - it hurt Auckland Council's ROI - which *was* dependent on tourism. That's not sponsorship.

Globally COVID also hurt the likes of Emirates too, irrespective of NZs particular situation.

Its worth noting that AC36 was one of the few international sporting events that could happen at the time with crowds.

Crowds? Come on, we've all been to Cups and there are never "crowds". The Bite of Seattle or some such shit has many more people than any Cup and you haven't even heard of it. I'm assuming Auckland Council deep down knew that their ROI was going to be fuck all. The same reason SF didn't buy into the '17 Cup and GD can't find a venue now.

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1 hour ago, pusslicker said:

The Bite of Seattle or some such shit has many more people than any Cup and you haven't even heard of it.

Since I have attended this a few times...

Agreed. Although even during the CSS in Valencia they did have big daily crowds too. Way bigger than were evident in SF, Bermuda or Auckland. 

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

So it’s Jacindas fault then… :lol:

#anyonebutGD

No, it’s Covids fault. As GD has stated, and people keep telling you over and over and over again, the Government offer was completely reasonable given the circumstances , and given their priorities. It just wasn’t enough to give Dalton confidence as CEO of Team NZ of being able to successfully defend the AC for a second time, thus endangering the future of his team. He was then forced to look elsewhere. That’s literally all there is to it.

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So its Covids fault that TNZ is spending money on commercial ventures designing and building hydrogen powered carbon foiling catamaran chase boats.  And its Covids fault that TNZ has decided that on top of spending money on an AC campaign they need to spend extra money on a side show circus event with the AC40's.

Good to know....

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1 hour ago, yoyo said:

So its Covids fault that TNZ is spending money on commercial ventures designing and building hydrogen powered carbon foiling catamaran chase boats.  And its Covids fault that TNZ has decided that on top of spending money on an AC campaign they need to spend extra money on a side show circus event with the AC40's.

Good to know....

What? What does building hydrogen powered boats have to do with anything? They’re building them because the world as well as the team is committed to moving away from fossil fuels. A “sideshow” can actually attract sponsors and TV broadcast rights, this making money. 
 

Educate yourself.

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4 hours ago, yoyo said:

So its Covids fault that TNZ is spending money on commercial ventures designing and building hydrogen powered carbon foiling catamaran chase boats.  And its Covids fault that TNZ has decided that on top of spending money on an AC campaign they need to spend extra money on a side show circus event with the AC40's.

Good to know....

When they claim they support green, even want to green, all while building carbon intensive vessels with throwaway after a couple of run sails, you know they are talking out their arses.

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6 minutes ago, Gissie said:

When they claim they support green, even want to green, all while building carbon intensive vessels with throwaway after a couple of run sails, you know they are talking out their arses.

Did they not just manage to get teams to agree to keep the current class? Yes. Nothings being thrown away here. 

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Did they not just manage to get teams to agree to keep the current class? Yes. Nothings being thrown away here. 

Of course it will. Do you think they will reuse the same boat the be green? They will only do that for lack of money. And it will cost more far energy to ship the boats to all the AC40 venues that the hydrogen will ever save I'm pollution

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28 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Of course it will. Do you think they will reuse the same boat the be green? They will only do that for lack of money. And it will cost more far energy to ship the boats to all the AC40 venues that the hydrogen will ever save I'm pollution

They're allowed to build one new boat.

TR becomes a test boat.

Then you better get the governments of the world to get their asses into gear, stop talking and start working on new forms of energy.

 

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

Of course it will. Do you think they will reuse the same boat the be green? They will only do that for lack of money. And it will cost more far energy to ship the boats to all the AC40 venues that the hydrogen will ever save I'm pollution

I wonder how many sails get chewed up (used three times) and thrown out.

As for shipping the small boats, plus the crew and support team, they will use green energy ships and planes. Even hydrogen ones. :lol:

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30 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

They're allowed to build one new boat.

TR becomes a test boat.

Then you better get the governments of the world to get their asses into gear, stop talking and start working on new forms of energy.

 

So that's your answer to climate change- governments need to work on "new forms of energy"?

Best way to reduce the impact of travel, is not to travel. So only one location, one boat for men, women and youths. One event. That would make far more difference than hydrogen powered boats (for which the hydrogen will at least partially be separated using fossil fuel energy)

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15 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

So that's your answer to climate change- governments need to work on "new forms of energy"?

Best way to reduce the impact of travel, is not to travel. So only one location, one boat for men, women and youths. One event. That would make far more difference than hydrogen powered boats (for which the hydrogen will at least partially be separated using fossil fuel energy)

Your answer is even worse! The Americas Cup is small fry in terms of travelling.

Are you going to tell SailGP it should stop travelling too? There goes that series then.

The 52 Super Series should stop travelling, RC44, GC32, TF35, all stop travelling?

Hell, why don't we just ground all planes, and stop all shipping around the world and watch the world descend back into the dark ages.

Try again.

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21 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

So that's your answer to climate change- governments need to work on "new forms of energy"?

Best way to reduce the impact of travel, is not to travel. So only one location, one boat for men, women and youths. One event. That would make far more difference than hydrogen powered boats (for which the hydrogen will at least partially be separated using fossil fuel energy)

No one that believes in green and climate change can seriously support yacht racing in general, let alone the AC.

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25 minutes ago, Gissie said:

I wonder how many sails get chewed up (used three times) and thrown out.

As for shipping the small boats, plus the crew and support team, they will use green energy ships and planes. Even hydrogen ones. :lol:

Who cares what they use? The Americas Cup travelling circus is small fry in the grand scheme of things. Every sport travels, by plane, ship, ferry, you name it.

Humans travel. That won't stop.

At least the AC is seen to be at least trying to integrate a new fuel source into its future plans.

 

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2 minutes ago, Gissie said:

No one that believes in green and climate change can seriously support yacht racing in general, let alone the AC.

People can believe in it, we should ALL be supporting climate change initiatives. 

A lot of sports need to change the way they do things, Yachting included.

Its not up to AC teams to solve the worlds climate change problems, just as its not up to the AC or any sports team to solve the worlds human rights issues.

As the saying goes "Rome wasn't built in a day"

But initiatives like ETNZ's new Hydrogen fueled chase boats are a step in the right direction. 

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On interesting comment in there though is "Jeddah has woken up and realised just what they were letting themselves in for and has shied away".#

Anyone seen any evidence to corroborate that assertion? Obviously there is the fact that GD didn't announce Jeddah on the 17th, but that could be because Jeddah backed out, offered too low or GD recognises that it is not viable. 

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13 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Educate yourself.

Multi-million dollar high speed hydrogen burning carbon foiling catamarans for the ultra-rich are the best way to spend money to reduce worldwide demand on fossil fuels and climate change - good to know

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6 hours ago, Forourselves said:

 

Its not up to AC teams to solve the worlds climate change problems, just as its not up to the AC or any sports team to solve the worlds human rights issues.

 

Its up to everyone- every individual and organisation. We can all reduce our planetary impact. And we can all avoid supporting regimes and organisations that do not implement good practises on human rights.

 

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2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

On interesting comment in there though is "Jeddah has woken up and realised just what they were letting themselves in for and has shied away".#

Anyone seen any evidence to corroborate that assertion? Obviously there is the fact that GD didn't announce Jeddah on the 17th, but that could be because Jeddah backed out, offered too low or GD recognises that it is not viable. 

His mentions of Oman and Bahrain are interesting, maybe there’s a knock-knock on the door in those locations? 

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23 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

His mentions of Oman and Bahrain are interesting, maybe there’s a knock-knock on the door in those locations? 

That seemed just a vague hope more than anything more concrete to me

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7 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

That seemed just a vague hope more than anything more concrete to me

Could well be.

But if no offshore venues have panned out and they are still trying to get one, they likely want one fast-tracked. That’s going to happen in most western democracy countries if it involves public funds. 

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

Its up to everyone- every individual and organisation. We can all reduce our planetary impact. And we can all avoid supporting regimes and organisations that do not implement good practises on human rights.

 

Isn't that exactly what they're doing by designing a craft that doesn't run on fossil fuels?

So we avoid the US, China, Australia, and India?

2 of the worlds largest economies and we're supposed to avoid them?

Glad you're not a world leader. Your country would be clean, green and broke.

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2 hours ago, yoyo said:

Multi-million dollar high speed hydrogen burning carbon foiling catamarans for the ultra-rich are the best way to spend money to reduce worldwide demand on fossil fuels and climate change - good to know

As opposed to?

Its a better option than the one being suggested here which is "Just stop travelling"

 

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10 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

As opposed to?

Its a better option than the one being suggested here which is "Just stop travelling"

 

Really? Did I say that? no.

I said  that the AC could be a single location event. Still means travel to that site. Like it has been for almost all of its history. I thought you were keen on on the cup history and its traditions?

That would stop huge numbers of flights. It would also avoid the construction of yet more facilities for just a few months in yet another location if that event was in Auckland which has a huge impact. 

That would be a few orders of magnitude better reduction in the environmental impact. It would also avoid support to dictatorships with no respect for human rights. 

BUT, if they decide not to do that, then they should stop virtue-broadcasting how wonderful they are for spending yet more energy to develop a class of boat that then will be unused after the event. It is that hypocrisy that I really object to.

 

p.s. I am neither Australian or American, but if I were I would find your repeated suggestion that those countries are equivalent to KSA or china in human rights terms very offensive. No they are not perfect (neither is NZ or anywhere) but they are a hell of a lot better. But as I am not from those countries, I don't find it offensive, just incredibly ignorant. Again

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2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Really? Did I say that? no.

I said  that the AC could be a single location event. Still means travel to that site. Like it has been for almost all of its history. I thought you were keen on on the cup history and its traditions?

That would stop huge numbers of flights. It would also avoid the construction of yet more facilities for just a few months in yet another location if that event was in Auckland which has a huge impact. 

That would be a few orders of magnitude better reduction in the environmental impact. It would also avoid support to dictatorships with no respect for human rights. 

BUT, if they decide not to do that, then they should stop virtue-broadcasting how wonderful they are for spending yet more energy to develop a class of boat that then will be unused after the event. It is that hypocrisy that I really object to.

 

p.s. I am neither Australian or American, but if I were I would find your repeated suggestion that those countries are equivalent to KSA or china in human rights terms very offensive. No they are not perfect (neither is NZ or anywhere) but they are a hell of a lot better. But as I am not from those countries, I don't find it offensive, just incredibly ignorant. Again

It’s not the 1800’s anymore. It’s no longer a one location event. Hasn’t been that since the early 2000’s. Like it or not, as everyone in the AC game has realised, the AC is a global sporting event, like most other sports. Attracting sponsorship and growing the fan base is also important. To do this, you can’t expect fans to come to you. You have to go to the fans. 
There are boats in many classes that have been discarded, not just AC yachts. From 100 ftrs, to old Volvo/ Whitbread boats, to TP52’s to IACC yachts, 12 metres. Until there is a reliable, cheap way to dispose of/ recycle carbon fibre, all sailboats will unfortunately have an end of life. 
 

PS, you spend so much time talking about what you aren’t but like I said, won’t reveal what you are. 

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17 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

So that's your answer to climate change- governments need to work on "new forms of energy"?

Best way to reduce the impact of travel, is not to travel. So only one location, one boat for men, women and youths. One event. That would make far more difference than hydrogen powered boats (for which the hydrogen will at least partially be separated using fossil fuel energy)

Yes,

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And then we remember all the outboards zooming around guzzling away during training. 

It would not be hard to limit each team to one support boat with a max of 900 hp total engine power and let each team have only one "observation boat" at a location at a time with something like a 400 Hp limit.  To keep up with the sailboats, the boats would need to be smaller than the current ones.       

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18 hours ago, Gissie said:

No one that believes in green and climate change can seriously support yacht racing in general, let alone the AC.

Sorry, but this is simply bullshit. On this basis, almost everything other than basic human existence should be stopped because almost everything we do has an impact on climate change and sustainability. That is not how we achieve our sustainability goals and get improvement, because effectively you would need to stop all major sport and that would be crazy.

What is important is that for every activity, we minimise it's carbon footprint and be as sustainable as possible, within the limitations of that activity. As soon as you start framing the argument in the terms of the activity needs to stop, you lose the argument.

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41 minutes ago, SimonN said:

Sorry, but this is simply bullshit. On this basis, almost everything other than basic human existence should be stopped because almost everything we do has an impact on climate change and sustainability. That is not how we achieve our sustainability goals and get improvement, because effectively you would need to stop all major sport and that would be crazy.

What is important is that for every activity, we minimise it's carbon footprint and be as sustainable as possible, within the limitations of that activity. As soon as you start framing the argument in the terms of the activity needs to stop, you lose the argument.

Was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those claiming green while doing the opposite. Much like China claiming to be a developing country and building shit loads more coal power plants. Makes any small effort from the rest of laughable.

Personally, it is something that will happen as there is no way we can stop it, assuming the science is settle of course. Still at least Qingdao will be nice in winter as well as summer.

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Climate change scares the crap out of me, it has deadly serious consequences for billions of us. Our atmosphere is thin and, starting since the Industrial Revolution but accelerating since then, been polluted with gases that have severe implications to life on earth. 

Am praying, really hard, for clean/damn-near-free energy solutions to be invented soon. 

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52 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Climate change scares the crap out of me, it has deadly serious consequences for billions of us. Our atmosphere is thin and, starting since the Industrial Revolution but accelerating since then, been polluted with gases that have severe implications to life on earth. 

Am praying, really hard, for clean/damn-near-free energy solutions to be invented soon. 

Why would you let something you have no control over scare you?

As for the clean/free energy, no way the free will ever happen.

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Climate change scares the crap out of me, it has deadly serious consequences for billions of us. Our atmosphere is thin and, starting since the Industrial Revolution but accelerating since then, been polluted with gases that have severe implications to life on earth. 

Am praying, really hard, for clean/damn-near-free energy solutions to be invented soon. 

Yup praying really hard won’t do it..

you need to pray really real really hard for it to have an effect 

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3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Am praying, really hard, for clean/damn-near-free energy solutions to be invented soon. 

Save your breath. 

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4 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Climate change scares the crap out of me, it has deadly serious consequences for billions of us. Our atmosphere is thin and, starting since the Industrial Revolution but accelerating since then, been polluted with gases that have severe implications to life on earth. 

Am praying, really hard, for clean/damn-near-free energy solutions to be invented soon. 

know where you're coming from, likeliest source is probably the sun ........ however..... that'll bite us in the arse long term as the plastic islands we're hell bent on creating will insulate and raise the ocean temps to a point where we cease to be

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18 hours ago, Gissie said:

Much like China claiming to be a developing country and building shit loads more coal power plants.

This is another case of it not being as simple as it seems. Time will tell, but China has committed to a big reduction in CO2 output and presented their roadmap for that. They admit that their emissions won't peak until 2030 because of commitments to new coal power stations but many accept that they have no option but to build them because it is too late to cancel them without significant impact on the Chinese economy. They have committed to not funding or building any more overseas and that they will not add any new domestic coal powered stations to their plans. Their plan shows how they will move away from coal going forward.

While you might not take the Chinese commitment seriously, Australia is because we are the biggest supplier of coal to China and those who support coal in Australia are seriously worried about the drop in demand from China. Those of us who oppose coal export are, however, cautiously optimistic.

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1 hour ago, SimonN said:

This is another case of it not being as simple as it seems. Time will tell, but China has committed to a big reduction in CO2 output and presented their roadmap for that. They admit that their emissions won't peak until 2030 because of commitments to new coal power stations but many accept that they have no option but to build them because it is too late to cancel them without significant impact on the Chinese economy. They have committed to not funding or building any more overseas and that they will not add any new domestic coal powered stations to their plans. Their plan shows how they will move away from coal going forward.

While you might not take the Chinese commitment seriously, Australia is because we are the biggest supplier of coal to China and those who support coal in Australia are seriously worried about the drop in demand from China. Those of us who oppose coal export are, however, cautiously optimistic.

They are building coal powered stations like crazy as expected. Whether they will stop in 2030 will be seen, but it will only happen if it works for them. As for the statement that they will stop building any more in other countries, like most things they are not black and white. What they have said, along with the no more statement, is that they will loan developing countries money with which to buy solar and wind generators from them. These will be cheap compared to any other producer as they will use cheap coal power in their production. The hooks involved with the loans will also be formidable and vigorously used whenever possible. Just a different way of controlling the world.

Please don't think this means I disagree with it all. Most of those that bleat on about saving the world can only see it through the eyes of a well off westerner. Expecting those looking over the fence at how we live to just stay as they are until we solve 'free for all' energy is unrealistic. 

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