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The AC 37 has started, news and rumours


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1 hour ago, Caecilian said:

If its anything like the last effort then why would you? The sailing is as dull as dogshit even for people who love the sport. No crew work, no extras, no close racing, no characters to relate to,  just a choreographed foiling fuckfest of grotesque boats with PR spin doctors telling us this is sailing at its best.

its not by a long shot, seriously the humans driving them are meatbag extras only there to fulfil a rule requirement and it looks it. One day hopefully we will look back on this as see it for what it is, an aberration that went too far and started to believe in its own bullshit.

I couldn't disagree with you more here. You need to understand one thing: Sailing has evolved over the years. Foiling is the name of the Game now expecially among the newer Generation Z. Displacement Sailing in Boats making only 10-12 knots at most has become boring. GC32, America's Cup, SailGP, etc. they all have Foiling Classes. Heck even the Olympics have a Foiling Class with the NACRA-17. Maybe the Moth will become Olympic?

The Sailing Community does not need these Traditionalists who wants displacement sailing!

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On Hamish Ross and the Discrimination Issue: This will be long, pedantic, and legal.  I apologize for the length; read at your own risk. Hamish Ross has recently claimed on multiple occasion

I’m not calling this out for the sake of ostracizing you, nor to play PC police on a forum that is notorious for the opposite of that. I could just hit ignore, delete or whatever. I’m calling this out

Hilarious to watch Kiwis who've been around since AC35 twist themselves into intellectual pretzels to give ETNZ a pass on what they screamed bloody murder about when Oracle did it. Even Oracle di

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14 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

 Heck even the Olympics have a Foiling Class with the NACRA-17. Maybe the Moth will become Olympic?

 

 

 

I don't know about Moth, but kite-foil will be for sure at Paris 2024. And the races are simply gorgeous to watch. Above an example. 

https://www.sailing.org/news/91028.php#.YVopu0ZBx0s

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39 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I couldn't disagree with you more here. You need to understand one thing: Sailing has evolved over the years. Foiling is the name of the Game now expecially among the newer Generation Z. Displacement Sailing in Boats making only 10-12 knots at most has become boring. GC32, America's Cup, SailGP, etc. they all have Foiling Classes. Heck even the Olympics have a Foiling Class with the NACRA-17. Maybe the Moth will become Olympic?

The Sailing Community does not need these Traditionalists who wants displacement sailing!

image.thumb.jpeg.9490cd2d477e033c534b4aa26c5362f8.jpeg
foiling blah blah blah.  It isn’t made for match racing and it isn’t for the AC.  SailGP?  Sure.

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19 minutes ago, Zaal said:

 

 

I don't know about Moth, but kite-foil will be for sure at Paris 2024. And the races are simply gorgeous to watch. Above an example. 

https://www.sailing.org/news/91028.php#.YVopu0ZBx0s

Well, the Point I was making to Caecilian was clear, wasn't it? I love these Foiling Class tbh!

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7 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

They tried charging over $200 in the US for AC36 then gave up, lol.

I guess the problem there was that it was free on YouTube in other places and many of us preferred that coverage and are savvy enough to sign up for a VPN. (And for some reason, YouTube and other streaming platforms have stopped trying to defeat those). I guess it would be more "successful" (more revenue, fewer viewers) if there were no regions that had free to view live coverage.

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4 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I couldn't disagree with you more here. You need to understand one thing: Sailing has evolved over the years. Foiling is the name of the Game now expecially among the newer Generation Z. Displacement Sailing in Boats making only 10-12 knots at most has become boring. GC32, America's Cup, SailGP, etc. they all have Foiling Classes. Heck even the Olympics have a Foiling Class with the NACRA-17. Maybe the Moth will become Olympic?

The Sailing Community does not need these Traditionalists who wants displacement sailing!

So why don't these Gen Zers pay for it? Seems they want the old boomers to pay for more of their shit again...

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2 hours ago, nroose said:

I guess the problem there was that it was free on YouTube in other places and many of us preferred that coverage and are savvy enough to sign up for a VPN. (And for some reason, YouTube and other streaming platforms have stopped trying to defeat those). I guess it would be more "successful" (more revenue, fewer viewers) if there were no regions that had free to view live coverage.

The real problem is that nobody cares. Hard to charge for something when there are probably a few thousand people in the States interested. Clarkey was saying the other day that there were like a hundred and something thousand viewers for sailgp. The AC had a few 10's of thousands watching it.

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22 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Did you watch AC36?

Thank god Onefortheteam, you haven’t been around for a couple of days, the Ed has been losing money. Plus I was worried for your health of course. 

As for your question, bits of it. Not that it has anything to do with dg’s or my comments. Although that is your way isn’t it. Change topic, misdirection. 

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Just now, Gissie said:

Thank god Onefortheteam, you haven’t been around for a couple of days, the Ed has been losing money. Plus I was worried for your health of course. 

As for your question, bits of it. Not that it has anything to do with dg’s or my comments. Although that is your way isn’t it. Change topic, misdirection. 

So in other words, yes. You did. Why should someone else pay for it while you watch it for free?

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5 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

The real problem is that nobody cares. Hard to charge for something when there are probably a few thousand people in the States interested. Clarkey was saying the other day that there were like a hundred and something thousand viewers for sailgp. The AC had a few 10's of thousands watching it.

How can you spread such lies. AC36 was the most watched event in the history of events. 

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Just now, Forourselves said:

So in other words, yes. You did. Why should someone else pay for it while you watch it for free?

Please make at least a little the effort to follow conversations if you want to jump in. Otherwise you just look like an idiot. 

Oh, that’s why you do it, because you are. 

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18 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Please make at least a little the effort to follow conversations if you want to jump in. Otherwise you just look like an idiot. 

Oh, that’s why you do it, because you are. 

"So why don't these Gen Zers pay for it? Seems they want the old boomers to pay for more of their shit again"

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3 minutes ago, Gissie said:

And what did dg say? 

"I couldn't disagree with you more here. You need to understand one thing: Sailing has evolved over the years. Foiling is the name of the Game now expecially among the newer Generation Z. Displacement Sailing in Boats making only 10-12 knots at most has become boring. GC32, America's Cup, SailGP, etc. they all have Foiling Classes. Heck even the Olympics have a Foiling Class with the NACRA-17. Maybe the Moth will become Olympic?

The Sailing Community does not need these Traditionalists who wants displacement sailing"

So CLEARLY you're expecting Gen Zers to "Pay for it" whether it be foiling boats, or coverage of foiling boats, yet you still want to be free to be able to watch foiling boats on TV/ Internet.

Again, why should Gen Zers in particular, pay for something you have access to for free?

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

"I couldn't disagree with you more here. You need to understand one thing: Sailing has evolved over the years. Foiling is the name of the Game now expecially among the newer Generation Z. Displacement Sailing in Boats making only 10-12 knots at most has become boring. GC32, America's Cup, SailGP, etc. they all have Foiling Classes. Heck even the Olympics have a Foiling Class with the NACRA-17. Maybe the Moth will become Olympic?

The Sailing Community does not need these Traditionalists who wants displacement sailing"

So CLEARLY you're expecting Gen Zers to "Pay for it" whether it be foiling boats, or coverage of foiling boats, yet you still want to be free to be able to watch foiling boats on TV/ Internet.

Again, why should Gen Zers in particular, pay for something you have access to for free?

 

 

 

 

So dg claims that the sport is beloved by gen z. I suggest that in this case they pay for it. Quite a basic quip was that I am sure even dg would understand. 

Then you turn up. Mr Fucking Serious and get all pissy as per normal. Bet you clear the pub whenever you walk in. ‘Shit, look who just walked in, Nigel no mates, see ya boys and good luck.’

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2 hours ago, Gissie said:

Then you turn up. Mr Fucking Serious and get all pissy as per normal. Bet you clear the pub whenever you walk in. ‘Shit, look who just walked in, Nigel no mates, see ya boys and good luck.’

Fuck i love this place!

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14 hours ago, nroose said:

I guess the problem there was that it was free on YouTube in other places and many of us preferred that coverage and are savvy enough to sign up for a VPN. (And for some reason, YouTube and other streaming platforms have stopped trying to defeat those). I guess it would be more "successful" (more revenue, fewer viewers) if there were no regions that had free to view live coverage.

They gave up in US and just showed it on the sports cable channel 

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2 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

The Gen Zers like interactive competitive e-sailing. Not real on the water sailing, lol. 

Surely that is where the cup is going. Virtual boats, just a tweak of the million dollar simulators, virtual teams. Virtual weather, so no delayed starts. No need for camera crews or TV broadcasting. Races can be run from a 'regatta' in Las Vegas.

Think of the money they can save, the games they can sell. This is definitely the way forward.

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40 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Surely that is where the cup is going. Virtual boats, just a tweak of the million dollar simulators, virtual teams. Virtual weather, so no delayed starts. No need for camera crews or TV broadcasting. Races can be run from a 'regatta' in Las Vegas.

Think of the money they can save, the games they can sell. This is definitely the way forward.

Even better, they get random contestants to compete and provide the "teams" no payroll.  Heck maybe they even pay to register.  Sure there's a cash prize but it's less costly than scripted reality shows with "national teams" of mercenaries. 

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20 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Even better, they get random contestants to compete and provide the "teams" no payroll.  Heck maybe they even pay to register.  Sure there's a cash prize but it's less costly than scripted reality shows with "national teams" of mercenaries. 

Plus the teams can sit at home and logon to compete, so no travel. Then it can be promoted as even more green than hydrogen powered support boats that are no longer needed.

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11 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

What's App and Instagram ain't working as well. What a clusterfuck!

Oh no. What will I do if I can't read yet more total crap from people I don't know. How can I life without seeing an unknown person's breakfast photo.

:lol: Bunch of soft cocks.

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4 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Oh no. What will I do if I can't read yet more total crap from people I don't know. How can I life without seeing an unknown person's breakfast photo.

:lol: Bunch of soft cocks.

All AC Teams are using FB and Instragram. FB was a pretty big part presenting AC36.

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13 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

All AC Teams are using FB and Instragram. FB was a pretty big part presenting AC36.

Oh no, I must have missed out on so much. How did I survive not getting the teams pr crap continually shoved down my throat.

:lol: Drink the cool aid young man, it is good for you.

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Grant Dalton: The stakes just raised in the America's Cup

1633388306153.jpg?format=pjpg&optimize=m

GRANT DALTON: AC in New Zealand not fundable at the moment!

The hosting process for the next America’s Cup continues with Team New Zealand reappraising the offshore options. While Auckland remains on the table, Dalton says another home defence “just isn't fundable - at the moment”, emphasising “at the moment”.

“This is going to another level now, and we won’t succeed with sausage sizzles and club raffles,” he said.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/126581771/grant-dalton-the-stakes-just-raised-in-the-americas-cup

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26 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Grant Dalton: The stakes just raised in the America's Cup

1633388306153.jpg?format=pjpg&optimize=m

GRANT DALTON: AC in New Zealand not fundable at the moment!

The hosting process for the next America’s Cup continues with Team New Zealand reappraising the offshore options. While Auckland remains on the table, Dalton says another home defence “just isn't fundable - at the moment”, emphasising “at the moment”.

“This is going to another level now, and we won’t succeed with sausage sizzles and club raffles,” he said.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/126581771/grant-dalton-the-stakes-just-raised-in-the-americas-cup

I’ve been out of the loop for a bit.  Does this article provide a good update on the current status of the AC?

WetHog  :ph34r:

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25 minutes ago, WetHog said:

I’ve been out of the loop for a bit.  Does this article provide a good update on the current status of the AC?

WetHog  :ph34r:

To paraphrase - after creating the most expensive boats in the world and the most expensive regatta in the world Dalton is struggling to fund the beast he created.

The challengers are sitting back pissing themselves.

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12 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

So what was the alternative?  The Bermuda Cats?

Your last name isn't Farmer QC is it?

I would never bet against Dalton, but he sort of put himself in this box. I'm not sure it was the best strategic decision. By choosing an entirely new and highly-sophisticated class of boat for AC36, he chose to do battle in an arena where money matters.  A lot. And that choice brings into play TNZ's only material weakness -- funding.  Full credit to TNZ, though. They designed, funded, and built the best of these new boats. But they are stuck with these boats now, and everything and every cost that comes with them.  TNZ certainly doesn't appear able to sustain that level of funding for the next cycle, and there does not appear to be at least presently a venue willing to become that benefactor. 

I would never bet against Dalton, so I'm perfectly happy to wait to see what actually happens. But the board doesn't look great right now.

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2 hours ago, southseasbill said:

Laurie Davidson passed away. RIP.

In 1976 Davidson designed Waverider for Tony Bouzaid, which won the 1978 Half Ton Cup held at Poole, England. In reaction to the success of the light displacement yachts designed of Davidson, Bruce Farr and Paul Whiting, the IOR bought in new rules which required extensive surgery of Waverider to bring her into class for the 1979 Half Ton Cup series, which Waverider won, becoming the first yacht to ever win the Half Ton Cup twice.[5]

After the success of Waverider. John MacLaurin commissioned Pendragon a Three-Quarter-tonner development of and big sister to Waverider. Built lightly in wood by Ocean Racing Yachts in Auckland, Pendragon won the Three-Quarter Ton cup held in 1978 in Vancouver, British Columbia. In the following year it won the One Ton Cup held at Newport, Rhode Island, a feat which was not achieved by any other yacht in level rating competition.

Among his other designs have been the M20 fibreglass trailer yacht (1973), the Davidson 28, the Davidson 31 (1974), the Dash 34 (1981), the Davidson 35 (1981), the Davidson 40, the Cavalier 37, the Cavalier 45 production yachts. The only Davidson yacht in production is the Davidson 29, designed in 1990. Two boats racing and cruising are home ported in Seattle Washington, and Vancouver B.C.. Custom production at Center of Effort, sailboat shop, Port Townsend, Washington.[6][7]

Davidson designed Outward Bound for Digby Taylor which completed in the 1981-82 Whitbread Round the World race, and won the small boat honours.

  • 1995, San Diego – Designed NZL 32 which won the America's Cup in five straight races
  • 2000, Auckland – Chief designer for Team New Zealand, and again won in five straight races (against challenger Luna Rossa)
  • 2003, Auckland - Designer for OneWorld Challenge who made it as far as the semi final repechage.
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5 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

So what was the alternative?  The Bermuda Cats?

Your last name isn't Farmer QC is it?

Well the team did shit all over the idea of continuity bandied about. Now they want to ensure continuity by keeping the same boats. :lol:

As for my name, certainly not Farmer. Nor is it QC. Not sure about you, you are coming across as one.

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5 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

So what was the alternative?  The Bermuda Cats?

Your last name isn't Farmer QC is it?

TNZ had three categories when they were deciding on the boat. A larger TP52, semi-foiler, and what they chose.

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4 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

12 days to the protocol being announced. Or do we think GD will miss this one too?

..isn't that nov 17th? so 12 days and a month

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13 hours ago, Gissie said:

To paraphrase - after creating the most expensive boats in the world and the most expensive regatta in the world Dalton is struggling to fund the beast he created.

The challengers are sitting back pissing themselves.

On top of that, having failed to secure big sponsors, Dalton wants foreign taxpayers to fund said beast…

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On 10/2/2021 at 8:50 PM, Gissie said:

Are you saying there is no mad rush to get as many coal powered stations in progress by 2030 that they can? Riiiiight.

AFAIK China authorithies have settled some quota on coal, and if not enough Gaz power plan, they just switch off electricity in some provinces. 

It will probably drive the China growth rate to a tiny 5% in 2022 as energy shortage will add to Evergrande & property market downturn which will weight on China economic activity.

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3 hours ago, Pizza on Fire said:

Dalton wants foreign taxpayers to fund said beast…

What's wrong with that? It would be really good if it were English taxpayers on the hook.....

 

1 hour ago, Erwankerauzen said:

He should not ride motorbikes anymore

My bike sits idle in the shed. Gave up riding it some years ago. Too fucking dangerous for my middle age bones.

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1 hour ago, Erwankerauzen said:

AFAIK China authorithies have settled some quota on coal, and if not enough Gaz power plan, they just switch off electricity in some provinces. 

It will probably drive the China growth rate to a tiny 5% in 2022 as energy shortage will add to Evergrande & property market downturn which will weight on China economic activity.

You really think the Chinese government will abide by any silly rules or promises that will impact on it economically? They leave such idiocy to western countries.

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12 hours ago, pusslicker said:

Didn't they have a design team?

Instead of being the brainchild of one man (in the case of NZL 20, Bruce Farr) she was designed by a team of Tom Schnackenberg, Doug Peterson, Laurie Davidson, David Egan, Peter Jackson, Maury Leyland, David Alan-Williams, Anthony Lehmann, Richard Karn, Wayne Smith, Mike Drumond, Chris Mitchell and Neil Wilkinson.

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45 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Instead of being the brainchild of one man (in the case of NZL 20, Bruce Farr) she was designed by a team of Tom Schnackenberg, Doug Peterson, Laurie Davidson, David Egan, Peter Jackson, Maury Leyland, David Alan-Williams, Anthony Lehmann, Richard Karn, Wayne Smith, Mike Drumond, Chris Mitchell and Neil Wilkinson.

Who said that design by committee was a bad idea?

I like that they supposedly were able to plant the rumor that they were going to San Diego with NZL 20 because the new builds were failures.

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18 minutes ago, Sisu3360 said:

Who said that design by committee was a bad idea?

I like that they supposedly were able to plant the rumor that they were going to San Diego with NZL 20 because the new builds were failures.

Nobody said it was a bad idea. I was responding to the person that said Laurie Davidson designed the boat.

Kiwis just love that stupid story about painting NZL 20 black. So clever, so Sun Tzu. I still don't get how this would help. Like any of the other 15 challengers or 3 defenders would back off because the Kiwis produced a dud? Or not see that coming?

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Just now, pusslicker said:

Nobody said it was a bad idea. I was responding to the person that said Laurie Davidson designed the boat.

Kiwis just love that stupid story about painting NZL 20 black. So clever, so Sun Tzu. I still don't get how this would help. Like any of the other 15 challengers would back off because the Kiwis produced a dud? Or not see that coming?

I was referring to the general aphorism stating that "design by committee" is a bad thing.

Head games are always part of the Cup, no matter how stupid. Would the result been any different in '83 if they didn't tarp KA6's keel? Who knows, but it was certainly a distraction for the other teams.

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4 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Why shouldn't he? You claim to often enough

I don’t speak for 5 million people. I only reiterate what the team has already said (even though they’re all a bunch of liars - according to some). People wanna agree with me, fine. They don’t, fine with Me. But you’re the one with the problem of you think they’re all lying to you lol.

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52 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

I don’t speak for 5 million people. I only reiterate what the team has already said (even though they’re all a bunch of liars - according to some). People wanna agree with me, fine. They don’t, fine with Me. But you’re the one with the problem of you think they’re all lying to you lol.

I've never said that they are lying. Though they aren't telling all the truth.

But you have many times claimed to speak for all kiwis. Eg you have said that all kiwis will forgive them if they win

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Well they lied about the venue announcement date didn’t they? 

Also the delivery date of the foil arms. AM had a boat ready to go in the water. The extra six months design time would have been nice.

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21 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

Also the delivery date of the foil arms. AM had a boat ready to go in the water. The extra six months design time would have been nice.

AM/TH was planning on being in Auckland with Defiant in the Fall of 2019 but even with the foil arm delay the "VENUE" was also way behind schedule.  Tanks were still standing.

 

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3 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

I've never said that they are lying. Though they aren't telling all the truth.

But you have many times claimed to speak for all kiwis. Eg you have said that all kiwis will forgive them if they win

I have never claimed to speak for all Kiwis. What IS clear is that the AC and sailing in general is one of the top sports in NZ, both in terms of participation and viewership along with Rugby. Therefor, the majority of NZers support the NZ team in the AC. There are always Kiwis who either don’t or refuse to understand either Team NZ or the AC. They don’t matter. The majority of Kiwi sports fans ALWAYS support our National teams (and yes, they are our National team). We as a nation have always, and will always support our National teams, whether it’s the ABs, Team NZ, the Black Caps, the Kiwi’s or the NZ Olympic team. It’s just what we do as Kiwis. The fact that you don’t understand, just shows your lack of knowledge about NZ. 

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10 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

I never claimed any. So yet another stupid strawman to detract from your lack of comprehension and self-awareness

Another "i never claimed to" yeah you did, whether through implication or directly, yes you did.

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15 hours ago, Forourselves said:

We as a nation have always, and will always support our National teams, whether it’s the ABs, Team NZ, the Black Caps, the Kiwi’s or the NZ Olympic team. It’s just what we do as Kiwis.

and there's the rub. GD has already said the quiet part out loud: "we are a business". ETNZ are not a National team. but if they were to accept NZ money, and keep the cup in Auckland, then the public will be more or less tricked into thinking they are still TNZ, and yes a national team. Not a bad thing - and I personally think they should sail in Auckland as its clearly an awesome spot for sailing.

But if they abandon home waters. then the public will lose interest. sure as shit.

Any historical parallels here folks? lol.

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

Were Americans more engaged with the 2013 SF defense by Larry and the Australians or the Bermuda one? 

ESPN carried the San Fran event which created more buzz.  Bermuda came and went without a normal folk even knowing it happened.

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1 hour ago, floater said:

and there's the rub. GD has already said the quiet part out loud: "we are a business". ETNZ are not a National team. but if they were to accept NZ money, and keep the cup in Auckland, then the public will be more or less tricked into thinking they are still TNZ, and yes a national team. Not a bad thing - and I personally think they should sail in Auckland as its clearly an awesome spot for sailing.

But if they abandon home waters. then the public will lose interest. sure as shit.

Any historical parallels here folks? lol.

The All Blacks are a business. They’re also a National Team.

The public don’t get “tricked” into funding anything. The public pay taxes, and the Government decides where and how to allocate that money. The public have no choice. 
In terms of support, we are all free to support who we choose when we choose. The fact is, when the racing starts, most Kiwis choose to support the team they feel represents them and their country, which, when the racing starts, is Team NZ. People thought the public would lose interest when the team was up 8-1, needed 1, just 1 race to win, and lost. But we didn’t. If anything, the support increased. Infact Auckland held a taxpayer funded welcome home parade when that team got home. The Government offered the team financial support and most of the nation again, up at 5am on a weekday, watched the Team cross the finish line in Bermuda to win again. You can say the public will lose interest, but we haven’t in the past and there’s no reason to think we will again. The public knew Dunphys proposal was dodgy, so no one really got behind it. The public lose interest in the BS that happens at the beginning of every cycle. But once the racing starts, we’re all in. It’s happened before, and will happen again.

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40 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

The All Blacks are a business. They’re also a National Team.

The public don’t get “tricked” into funding anything. The public pay taxes, and the Government decides where and how to allocate that money. The public have no choice. 
In terms of support, we are all free to support who we choose when we choose. The fact is, when the racing starts, most Kiwis choose to support the team they feel represents them and their country, which, when the racing starts, is Team NZ. People thought the public would lose interest when the team was up 8-1, needed 1, just 1 race to win, and lost. But we didn’t. If anything, the support increased. Infact Auckland held a taxpayer funded welcome home parade when that team got home. The Government offered the team financial support and most of the nation again, up at 5am on a weekday, watched the Team cross the finish line in Bermuda to win again. You can say the public will lose interest, but we haven’t in the past and there’s no reason to think we will again. The public knew Dunphys proposal was dodgy, so no one really got behind it. The public lose interest in the BS that happens at the beginning of every cycle. But once the racing starts, we’re all in. It’s happened before, and will happen again.

When you live in a town in the middle of nowhere that has a one horse, two dogs fucking gets an audience.

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34 minutes ago, Caecilian said:

When you live in a town in the middle of nowhere that has a one horse, two dogs fucking gets an audience.

And government grants. 

Do pro teams in many countries get government grants?  

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10 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

And government grants. 

Do pro teams in many countries get government grants?  

Pro Teams get billion dollars stadiums built for them - they use them for 30 years which is $33M a year

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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Another "i never claimed to" yeah you did, whether through implication or directly, yes you did.

More diversion, more absence of evidence. 

But on another topic, what say you to the rumour about your favourite couple heading to the Swiss team?

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4 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Pro Teams get billion dollars stadiums built for them - they use them for 30 years which is $33M a year

They may in some places. But in the UK football and rugby stadia are paid for by the club's or their sponsors. Whether it be Emirates (where else have they cropped up)funding Arsenal's stadium or English rugby funding Twickenham upgrades from TV rights.

If the UK won the AC I'm not sure if govt would stump up any money