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The AC 37 has started, news and rumours


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On Hamish Ross and the Discrimination Issue: This will be long, pedantic, and legal.  I apologize for the length; read at your own risk. Hamish Ross has recently claimed on multiple occasion

I’m not calling this out for the sake of ostracizing you, nor to play PC police on a forum that is notorious for the opposite of that. I could just hit ignore, delete or whatever. I’m calling this out

Hilarious to watch Kiwis who've been around since AC35 twist themselves into intellectual pretzels to give ETNZ a pass on what they screamed bloody murder about when Oracle did it. Even Oracle di

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32 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Well, what a toxic social media cesspit this has turned into. 

A well-chosen ignore list helps.

Also, going away for a while when there isn't any news.

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13 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

So New York Yankees are the US National team?

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-president-bill-clinton-wears-a-new-york-yankees-baseball-cap-as-the-41688234.html

p.s. I have won some major sailing competitions so I must be a better person than you. Please show respect in future

No it makes you an ass because you again didnt read what I said and jumped the shark - again

 What I said was, no one here has any right to be personally judging anyone else. 
 

Personal judgements are irrelevant. Its about what makes a person like Dalton qualified to make the decisions he does. Simply, his results. No one should be judging his decisions because he is the only person qualified in the world right now to be making those decisions. Those decisions should be respected and trusted.

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So when the “only person in the world qualified to make decisions” can’t or won’t  hit deadlines 

we don’t get to call him out on it? Seems an odd position to be in. 

oh by your faster is better metric, you are a bit shit;-) 

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19 hours ago, Caecilian said:

I dont think you understand the RNZYS as a club nor the relationship. The club is a front- that's all. The  team selects it for utility and in this case the prestige of being the biggest one in NZ. (with royal attached as a bonus)

I understand the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron perfectly well. It was founded in 1871 and granted the title by Royal Warrant in 1902. The Squadron's involvement with the America's Cup began 35 years ago when it was the  when it was the club of challenge for the 12m 'Plastic Fantastic, KZ7, Kiwi Magic.

This was WAY before any involvement in The Cup by Emirates Team New Zealand or Grant Dalton who was, at the time, pretty heavily involved with the Whitbread Round the World Race as a crew member of Sir Peter Blake's Lion New Zealand.

I think if you informed the Commodore, any of the flag officers, committee members or ordinary members that your opinion is that the RNZYS "Is a front - that's all" you might just receive a universal "FUCK OFF"!

It has a trophy cabinet which if was melted down (not suggesting is should be) would fund a chunk of AC37 - I'm being facetious by the way. It also has an honour roll of yachts way beyond the recent AC36 event.

You have absolutely NO idea!

As a former AC challenging Commodore I understand more than just a little the responsibility of the club, the level of communication required between the team/syndicate and the club, and the club and the event organisers to ensure compliance of the club with the AC DoG and the time commitment required to make sure everything goes smoothly. 

It should also never be forgotten that it is the CLUB which issues the challenge, is the trustee and holder should they win, and the subsequent defender.

In the past there have been multiple teams wishing to be the defender - Dennis Conner had to deal with  number of competitors  back in the 70's and 80's before being selected by the NYYC to defend The Cup. As evidenced by ETNZ's challenge in raising funds the likelyhood of The Squadron having a choice between more than one team to be its defender lies somewhere between zero and nil.

The Squadron has been involved in virtually every team that has raised the profile of New Zealand Yachting from the VOR, the AC, Admiral's Cup and so on, it runs one of the most competitive one design yacht series on the planet with the Stewarts and many, if not all of New Zealand's match racing champions have cut their teeth in the Youth International, sponsored variously by YDL, Nespresso, Harken etc.

I have been fortunate to visit the Royal New Zealand on a number of occasions, as part of a VOR team, an umpire at the Youth International or just visiting with friends. It has a friendly atmosphere, passionate sailing members and a history that reflects the sailing scene in New Zealand.

For anyone to state the Squadron is just a front? A front for what? clearly knows about 50% of nothing of the pride the average squadron member has in their club or its achievements over the course of its history.

They, The Squadron, are the current holders of the America's Cup - and not for the first time Not ETNZ, they are just the team.

Does anyone really think that Commodore Young and his flag officers and committees don't know what they are doing or don't appreciate their responsibilities?  Give me a break and more importantly show them some respect. 

 

IMG_8245.JPG

IMG_8376.JPG

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from https://afloat.ie/blogs/tom-macsweeney/item/52183-dingle-for-the-america-s-cup

The AC has become a big commercial business, where money dictates more than sailing….. where the attempt seems to be to bulldoze Ireland into taking on a massive cost in a short timeframe … and helping to pay for the New Zealand defence which, if Team New Zealand can't find a location, could end up in another AC legal wrangle…

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9 hours ago, Forourselves said:

You know what else is fun? winning. But you wouldn't know anything about that:)

Larry and Russell do. Beat the crap out of you.  Larry never doesn't have fun winning.

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10 hours ago, Forourselves said:

What qualifies you to judge Dalton on his decisions regarding the Americas Cup? What have you achieved in the Americas Cup world to judge Dalton for his decisions? 

What qualifies you? It's the same exact thing.

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16 hours ago, dogwatch said:

How would whoever wrote that actually know?

which part? that GD was on about $2 million a year. Or that he was by far the top earner.

I'm thinking the latter may be the more significant bit.

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28 minutes ago, floater said:

 

which part? that GD was on about $2 million a year. Or that he was by far the top earner.

I'm thinking the latter may be the more significant bit.

I meant the $2M. My point really, unless you are the taxman, how the hell would anyone know. I doubt he tells anyone else in the team what he pays himself. It isn't part of the published accounts, at least not those I've found.

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5 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

It has a trophy cabinet which if was melted down (not suggesting is should be) would fund a chunk of AC37

At $32.50 Kiwi roubles an ounce I think that bunch of trophy’s would realise not much more than a 8ft dinghy.

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5 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

I understand the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron perfectly well. It was founded in 1871 and granted the title by Royal Warrant in 1902. The Squadron's involvement with the America's Cup began 35 years ago when it was the  when it was the club of challenge for the 12m 'Plastic Fantastic, KZ7, Kiwi Magic.

This was WAY before any involvement in The Cup by Emirates Team New Zealand or Grant Dalton who was, at the time, pretty heavily involved with the Whitbread Round the World Race as a crew member of Sir Peter Blake's Lion New Zealand.

I think if you informed the Commodore, any of the flag officers, committee members or ordinary members that your opinion is that the RNZYS "Is a front - that's all" you might just receive a universal "FUCK OFF"!

It has a trophy cabinet which if was melted down (not suggesting is should be) would fund a chunk of AC37 - I'm being facetious by the way. It also has an honour roll of yachts way beyond the recent AC36 event.

You have absolutely NO idea!

As a former AC challenging Commodore I understand more than just a little the responsibility of the club, the level of communication required between the team/syndicate and the club, and the club and the event organisers to ensure compliance of the club with the AC DoG and the time commitment required to make sure everything goes smoothly. 

It should also never be forgotten that it is the CLUB which issues the challenge, is the trustee and holder should they win, and the subsequent defender.

In the past there have been multiple teams wishing to be the defender - Dennis Conner had to deal with  number of competitors  back in the 70's and 80's before being selected by the NYYC to defend The Cup. As evidenced by ETNZ's challenge in raising funds the likelyhood of The Squadron having a choice between more than one team to be its defender lies somewhere between zero and nil.

The Squadron has been involved in virtually every team that has raised the profile of New Zealand Yachting from the VOR, the AC, Admiral's Cup and so on, it runs one of the most competitive one design yacht series on the planet with the Stewarts and many, if not all of New Zealand's match racing champions have cut their teeth in the Youth International, sponsored variously by YDL, Nespresso, Harken etc.

I have been fortunate to visit the Royal New Zealand on a number of occasions, as part of a VOR team, an umpire at the Youth International or just visiting with friends. It has a friendly atmosphere, passionate sailing members and a history that reflects the sailing scene in New Zealand.

For anyone to state the Squadron is just a front? A front for what? clearly knows about 50% of nothing of the pride the average squadron member has in their club or its achievements over the course of its history.

They, The Squadron, are the current holders of the America's Cup - and not for the first time Not ETNZ, they are just the team.

Does anyone really think that Commodore Young and his flag officers and committees don't know what they are doing or don't appreciate their responsibilities?  Give me a break and more importantly show them some respect. 

 

IMG_8245.JPG

IMG_8376.JPG

Meh...

I think you give too much credit to tradition. Who is calling the shots, not the commodore or any committee because they don't pay the bills. They are a front as you have shown, a giant trophy case, membership and premises does not grant control over TNZ.

You are quite right about everything else, but  politics exist in every organisation and it doesn't take much skill determining who has the ultimate power while the RNZYS technically holds the trophy 

 

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5 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Larry and Russell do. Beat the crap out of you.  Larry never doesn't have fun winning.

Beat "the crap" out of us? I'm sorry, last I looked, San Fran was 9-8, (11-8) in reality

Bermuda was 8-1, and Oracle Team USA died, Larry and Russell are no longer a part of the AC and they have no legacy, so who beat the crap out of who?

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

It is a possibility that the NYYC trying to influence things AC37 is what has AM thinking ‘We need to look around..’ 

‘The Billionaire and the Mechanic’ is a fun & interesting read. 

No.  Commodore Culver didn't care for the leadership of AM and forced S&S into the picture in hopes that DeVos and Fauth would make a change.  Culver has now been ostracized by the NYYC.  His role as Commodore ends at the end of the year so its strange that he had that much power this year.

AM is likely going to sign up with Pensacola Yacht Club.  NYYC/S&S will fizzle out although I wouldn't be surprised if TH didn't give Canfield a "bench player" roll.  The talk in Cadix is still that Slingsby and Goodie are the dual helmsmen.

If it ends up in the Middle East, all bets are off.

You can take that all to the bank.

 

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Beat "the crap" out of us? I'm sorry, last I looked, San Fran was 9-8, (11-8) in reality

Bermuda was 8-1, and Oracle Team USA died, Larry and Russell are no longer a part of the AC and they have no legacy, so who beat the crap out of who?

Larry and Russell together got you to blow an enormous lead. Winning is winning. 

Winners!

Then Russell earlier beat you, um, convincingly,  in 2003. WINNER!

 

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Beat "the crap" out of us? I'm sorry, last I looked, San Fran was 9-8, (11-8) in reality

Bermuda was 8-1, and Oracle Team USA died, Larry and Russell are no longer a part of the AC and they have no legacy, so who beat the crap out of who?

I think what Clew is referring to is how sweet it was. All the Kiwi fans celebrating the victory while vandalizing Larry's house. Then fucking choking away a huge lead. Bermuda was a guy having won the Cup twice and moving on to something else.

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4 hours ago, Priscilla said:

At $32.50 Kiwi roubles an ounce I think that bunch of trophy’s would realise not much more than a 8ft dinghy.

I was making a point, obviously missed.

4 hours ago, Caecilian said:

Meh...

I think you give too much credit to tradition. Who is calling the shots, not the commodore or any committee because they don't pay the bills. They are a front as you have shown, a giant trophy case, membership and premises does not grant control over TNZ.

You are quite right about everything else, but  politics exist in every organisation and it doesn't take much skill determining who has the ultimate power while the RNZYS technically holds the trophy 

 

 

If it didn't have 170 years of history & tradition would the America's Cup have quite the draw to the rich and famous as it does? It wouldn't have had so many millions spent on it or so many books written about it, it would just be another boat race.

What is the RNZYS without ETNZ? Well it is a yacht club with it's own 100 year plus history which serves the needs of its members very well with multiple events and series. Yes, they would probably lose (by default) AC37 but they would continue on as New Zealand's premier yacht club.

It is also their name (multiple times) engraved on The Cup in exactly the same way that you WONT see the names of Vanderbuilt, Bond or Oracle although I do hope one day to see 'Royal Yacht Squadron' engraved on the piece of tin they paid Garrards One Hundred Pounds for sometime before 1851.  

What is ETNZ without RNZYS? With all due respect - nothing except a pile of bills (you are right about that) and redundancy letters.

ETNZ is (just?) another team (one of at least 3) that RNZYS selected to represent them in the challenge for, and defence of the trophy.

The simple fact is that RNZYS & ETNZ is a very effective sporting partnership which has certainly helped New Zealand's image as a country well able to punch above their weight in the sailing world.

BTW - this is the trophy case that matters in AC.

 

IMG_8388.JPG

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26 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Would you guys please stop quoting that FourIdiot?  The adults can actually talk when we don’t have to deal with him. The vast majority of us already have him on ignore, I’m talking to you Gissie. 

i knew better, sorry brother.

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7 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Larry and Russell together got you to blow an enormous lead. Winning is winning. 

Winners!

Then Russell earlier beat you, um, convincingly,  in 2003. WINNER!

 

Wait, so we're just supposed to pretend 2017 doesn't exist?

 

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2 hours ago, Monkey said:

Would you guys please stop quoting that FourIdiot?  The adults can actually talk when we don’t have to deal with him. The vast majority of us already have him on ignore, I’m talking to you Gissie. 

Apologies, will refrain from now on.

I hope...

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2 hours ago, Monkey said:

Would you guys please stop quoting that FourIdiot?  The adults can actually talk when we don’t have to deal with him. The vast majority of us already have him on ignore, I’m talking to you Gissie. 

Those same "adults" that disagree with Dalton because he's a "Bad person"? 

Yeah right.

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8 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

I was making a point, obviously missed.

 

If it didn't have 170 years of history & tradition would the America's Cup have quite the draw to the rich and famous as it does? It wouldn't have had so many millions spent on it or so many books written about it, it would just be another boat race.

What is the RNZYS without ETNZ? Well it is a yacht club with it's own 100 year plus history which serves the needs of its members very well with multiple events and series. Yes, they would probably lose (by default) AC37 but they would continue on as New Zealand's premier yacht club.

It is also their name (multiple times) engraved on The Cup in exactly the same way that you WONT see the names of Vanderbuilt, Bond or Oracle although I do hope one day to see 'Royal Yacht Squadron' engraved on the piece of tin they paid Garrards One Hundred Pounds for sometime before 1851.  

What is ETNZ without RNZYS? With all due respect - nothing except a pile of bills (you are right about that) and redundancy letters.

ETNZ is (just?) another team (one of at least 3) that RNZYS selected to represent them in the challenge for, and defence of the trophy.

The simple fact is that RNZYS & ETNZ is a very effective sporting partnership which has certainly helped New Zealand's image as a country well able to punch above their weight in the sailing world.

BTW - this is the trophy case that matters in AC.

 

IMG_8388.JPG

The actual metal is unimpressive, its what it represents- untold millions of dollars and man hours spent in pursuit of an vacuous goal which has gathered momentum over time to gain a life of its own. I dont think the members really give a toss whether the cup is in the foyer or not. Nice to have but so what?

A lot of these old yacht clubs are all about flags and trumpets but the real club exists on the water, not in the dusty members  bar where the retired barristers and CEO's reminisce about the glory days of their youth and plot to retain the cup.

 

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56 minutes ago, Caecilian said:

The actual metal is unimpressive, its what it represents- untold millions of dollars and man hours spent in pursuit of an vacuous goal which has gathered momentum over time to gain a life of its own. I dont think the members really give a toss whether the cup is in the foyer or not. Nice to have but so what?

A lot of these old yacht clubs are all about flags and trumpets but the real club exists on the water, not in the dusty members  bar where the retired barristers and CEO's reminisce about the glory days of their youth and plot to retain the cup.

 

HA HA HA - You  have clearly never been the the RNZYS. It is most certainly NOT a club that is "all about flags and trumpets". It is a club that has had its burgee on not just AC challengers but also on Whitbread/Volvo boats and a very comprehensive race programme enthusiastically partaken my a multitude of members over the years and is still a very active yacht club.

And as far as it being a "vacuous goal"(definition - having or showing a lack of thought or intelligence; mindless) I am sure that the likes of Vanderbuilt, Dunraven, Lipton, Sopwith etc from the era when challengers were rather more frequent and  more recently the likes of Bich, Bond, Harrison, Bertarelli, Ellison, DeVos etc hardly lack or lacked intelligence.

Besides, for the main part, wasn't it their "untold millions" to spend as they wished? And how many sailors over the years were paid for their "man hours", from the likes of Spithill and Ainslie all the way down to the Brightlingsea fishermen who were able to supplement their income from fishing by crewing on the likes of Shamrock and Endeavour.

An event which united a nation like no other sporting victory before or since (Australia 2's victory in 1983) could hardly be termed as "mindless".

Even on the mighty Sailing Anarchy discussion about this event "lacking thought or intelligence" has garnered more posts and views than probably the next 10 subjects combined.

So what does that say about your opinion of your fellow anarchists?

And by the way, the members of the RNZYS that I know personally - and there are a few - are pretty proud of The Squadron's record in The Cup.

Do I sense a whiff of green cheese in your posts?

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5 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Couldn’t find any mention in the Spanish press - other than a Sept 24 piece saying TNZ would be meeting the government in the following days

Yes, me too. Not sure where Michelle got that from but apparently Pete B posted a mention of Spain/NZ in a SailGP Instagram or FB yesterday. 
 

Gorgeous day here in Roma, have a TV queued up for SGP for in case I make it back to P Navona in time to catch it live, in the next hour. 

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9 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Yes, me too. Not sure where Michelle got that from but apparently Pete B posted a mention of Spain/NZ in a SailGP Instagram or FB yesterday. 

Yeah, Pete’s been saying that for quite a while. Remember a post here  (by @dolphin ?) of meeting him in a  Rome restaurant?

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4 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Yeah, Pete’s been saying that for quite a while. Remember a post here  (by @dolphin ?) of meeting him in a  Rome restaurant?

I do remember that post, yes. This thing by PB was apparently from yesterday and said something about trying to reach an agreement between the Spanish and NZ govts? Jives a little with MT at FV, so maybe they are still knocking on the door in Spain. 

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23 minutes ago, Xlot said:

… a  Rome restaurant?

For fun.. have discovered a few super cool restaurants in the neighborhood to the west of P Navona, it’s a lot like Trastevere. Took this on the way home on a recent eve, my apt for 5 weeks is directly behind. edit, oops! 

C89B342E-FD58-4177-A4E9-C59651D2AEC8.jpeg

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Again for fun ... that picture reminded me of Angels and Demons, where the baddie nearly drowns a Cardinal in the Four Rivers fountain ... the basin of which is 50 cm deep, in reality

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7 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Again for fun ... that picture reminded me of Angels and Demons, where the baddie nearly drowns a Cardinal in the Four Rivers fountain ... the basin of which is 50 cm deep, in reality

Thanks, will look for that probably-classic movie scene. 
 

They did a beautiful job recleaning the fountain early yesterday morning, Trevi fountain the day before, this part of Roma is spectacularly clean and well kept still - am very impressed. Met a friend yesterday who now manages the ‘Wiki’ on P St Maria Della Scala in Trastevere yesterday for lunch, the recovery here has led to renewed optimism after one hell of an 18 months. Romans are back to having a great time again, thank God!

On this sparkling Saturday afternoon P Navona is packed with locals happily enjoying the day. 

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Dunno ... just today, the Spanish government announced a plan to give youngsters a bonus towards paying the rent, thus encouraging them to leave the parental home earlier than at 29, as of now. Problem is the available funds are limited to 200M€, which would cover just 10% of the potential public, and the predictable liberal-conservative debate is raging.

Under these circumstances, is it realistic to envision a 100M€ outlay for the AC in (still paying off the previous debt) Valencia? 50M€ of direct local expenditures just maybe, but 50M€ going in the pocket of a tainted Kiwi impresario? No way, methinks

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11 hours ago, Caecilian said:

The actual metal is unimpressive, its what it represents- untold millions of dollars and man hours spent in pursuit of an vacuous goal which has gathered momentum over time to gain a life of its own. I dont think the members really give a toss whether the cup is in the foyer or not. Nice to have but so what?

A lot of these old yacht clubs are all about flags and trumpets but the real club exists on the water, not in the dusty members  bar where the retired barristers and CEO's reminisce about the glory days of their youth and plot to retain the cup.

 

Oh, the bitter taste of cynicism!

 

10 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Do I sense a whiff of green cheese in your posts?

Too pungent for just a wiff...

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7 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

something about trying to reach an agreement between the Spanish and NZ govts? 

Yes the gov'ts did get an agreement NZ got 5 million?? Pfizer shots from Spain a couple of weeks ago.;)

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10 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

HA HA HA - You  have clearly never been the the RNZYS. It is most certainly NOT a club that is "all about flags and trumpets". It is a club that has had its burgee on not just AC challengers but also on Whitbread/Volvo boats and a very comprehensive race programme enthusiastically partaken my a multitude of members over the years and is still a very active yacht club.

And as far as it being a "vacuous goal"(definition - having or showing a lack of thought or intelligence; mindless) I am sure that the likes of Vanderbuilt, Dunraven, Lipton, Sopwith etc from the era when challengers were rather more frequent and  more recently the likes of Bich, Bond, Harrison, Bertarelli, Ellison, DeVos etc hardly lack or lacked intelligence.

Besides, for the main part, wasn't it their "untold millions" to spend as they wished? And how many sailors over the years were paid for their "man hours", from the likes of Spithill and Ainslie all the way down to the Brightlingsea fishermen who were able to supplement their income from fishing by crewing on the likes of Shamrock and Endeavour.

An event which united a nation like no other sporting victory before or since (Australia 2's victory in 1983) could hardly be termed as "mindless".

Even on the mighty Sailing Anarchy discussion about this event "lacking thought or intelligence" has garnered more posts and views than probably the next 10 subjects combined.

So what does that say about your opinion of your fellow anarchists?

And by the way, the members of the RNZYS that I know personally - and there are a few - are pretty proud of The Squadron's record in The Cup.

Do I sense a whiff of green cheese in your posts?

Flags and trumpets dude, but we are at crossed purposes. My opinion is that TNZ are using the club in their pursuit of business goals. As a taxpayer I am a stakeholder and I do not agree with either the RNZYS or TNZ holding their hands out for free money that enables profits funneled into private hands . There's a big picture and lots of tiny self interested ones making the AC collage. Ive said it before, Dalton has done well and deserved his place in AC lore but the shenanigans over the venue is shameless self interest.

Back to the club, its an anachronism, a Gormenghast, a totem to when all was well in the world,  when women knew their place and elderly white titans of business sailed grand yachts and awarded each other silver trophies.

'Prince Philip would have felt right at home

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On 10/8/2021 at 3:34 AM, enigmatically2 said:

@Forourselves I don't think anyone on here judges GD badly . I certainly don't, as I have said on a number of occasions I respect him. That does not mean that people cannot disagree with his decisions, esepcially since for most people it is not JUST about winning. Personally I don't really care whether AC37 is offshore or not, but I get why many Kiwis do.

Paradoxically, it is your mindless hero-worship of GD and TNZ that does more damage to their reputation on here than anything anyone else says. It is so exaggerated and sometimes supported by claims you make that have no basis in reality that all you do is push people to react against what you say.

But I am pretty sure you won't understand that, just as you have failed to understand most of what I post.

You on the the other hand we do judge badly. You have been measured, you have been weighed, you have most definitely been found wanting. You have also been found to have spittle coming from your mouth and a gap in comprehension that would make the Mariana Trench feel inadequate.

Why do you keep feeding the troll?  Just put him on ignore like many of us have and it is a much nicer place.

Oh, and by the way. I do judge GD badly.  He has put his own personal wealth and ego over his fellow Kiwi's and NZ.

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4 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Why do you keep feeding the troll?  Just put him on ignore like many of us have and it is a much nicer place.

Oh, and by the way. I do judge GD badly.  He has put his own personal wealth and ego over his fellow Kiwi's and NZ.

I don't use the ignore button, but will try and bypass his crap.

As for your second part, agree partly. Not that sure he is that concerned with the money part, just accepts it as his due. However the ego, most certainly. His wish to do the three in a row consumes him and I fear has lead to this behaviour.

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13 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

For fun.. have discovered a few super cool restaurants in the neighborhood to the west of P Navona, it’s a lot like Trastevere. Took this on the way home on a recent eve, my apt for 5 weeks is directly behind. edit, oops! 

C89B342E-FD58-4177-A4E9-C59651D2AEC8.jpeg

Love that part of Rome.  We have stayed by the Pantheon couple of times.

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15 hours ago, Liquid said:

Oh, the bitter taste of cynicism!

 

Too pungent for just a wiff...

I think you may be right Liquid. Perhaps I need to change the colour of the cheese in my previous post to Danish Blue.

One of the reasons that Protest Committees don’t generally accept photographs in a hearing is that they are just a snapshot of a situation just as the denial of the long term benefits the America’s Cup has brought to New Zealand and Auckland is also out of context.

The Global hospitality, airline and tourist industries have taken a kicking over the last couple of years due to the equally global pandemic. The return as reported by the New Zealand government from AC36 was 73 cents on the dollar and I would bet that there are dozens if not hundreds of companies around the world that would be delighted, given the current situation, to be reporting such a figure.  Doesn’t the report author have an algorithm for the feel good factor the win brought to Kiwis? Seems to me there were more than a few delighted people lining the harbour walls as the boat came back in after Race 10

Thankfully investors are rather more resolute and far sighted than that, otherwise the global economy would be in meltdown, if indeed it could function at all.

The fact that the poor return has been highlighted by the organisation that Caecillian is a “ taxpayer  a stakeholder”  of shows the short termism of the report authors.

The same government, in reports that followed the 2000 & 2003 America’s Cups in Auckland, declared a collective benefit to the New Zealand economy of just shy of $1Bn.

Here in China the government announces a 5 year plan and then sticks to it (remember when every corporation used to do that?) It seldom changes it course because of a bump in the road, even when that bump is as big as COVID.

In addition the AC encouraged or perhaps was even the catalyst for the much needed re-development of Viaduct Basin which for 20 years has been utilised by businesses and their employees providing benefits to Aucklanders, the wider New Zealand population and of course the tourists that normally flock the area.

This probably (just guessing) has provided and continuous to provide a significant “taxpayer and stakeholder” input to the New Zealand economy.

As far as The Squadron is concerned, The Squadron Caecillian considers “an anachronism, a Gormenghast” actually has approaching 900 boat owning members so clearly a significant number of Kiwis don’t agree with him at all. What’s his problem? Did he get black-balled or something similar?

By the way I had to look up “Gormenghast”. Turns out it is a fantasy novel series which I suppose is quite appropriate.

He is partly right however that “the real club exists on the water”. To that end the RNZYS runs hundreds of races a year with between now and 31st December over 40 days when there is a sailing activity in the calendar. Not bad for a club which is an anachronism. Having said that, it is nice to have a convenient bar at the top of the marina for a wet after racing.

Regarding the venue, I, like most other AC aficionados would prefer a home defence. The key word is of course ‘defence’. If insufficiently funded then it would most likely be a capitulation. It would also likely be the last time there was an AC event on the waters off Auckland for a very long time indeed. If the Squadron/Team are having problems funding a defence what chance to they have raising funds for a challenge when they lost?

Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion.

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5 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

By the way I had to look up “Gormenghast”. Turns out it is a fantasy novel series which I suppose is quite appropriate.

More specifically, it's the name of a huge rambling castle, much of it crumbling into disuse, with absurd rituals rooted in timeless antiquity. Surrounded by a mostly grateful peasantry. Not a bad metaphor.

As far as the series of novels go, the first two are well worth reading. The author, Mervyn Peake, was losing his mind around the writing of the third part and I'd agree with a common view that it is hard to follow and inferior to its predecessors. 

Peake's much shorter "Mr Pye", set on the island of Sark, is a delight and can be recommended as an introduction to the author. 

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6 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

I think you may be right Liquid. Perhaps I need to change the colour of the cheese in my previous post to Danish Blue.

One of the reasons that Protest Committees don’t generally accept photographs in a hearing is that they are just a snapshot of a situation just as the denial of the long term benefits the America’s Cup has brought to New Zealand and Auckland is also out of context.

The Global hospitality, airline and tourist industries have taken a kicking over the last couple of years due to the equally global pandemic. The return as reported by the New Zealand government from AC36 was 73 cents on the dollar and I would bet that there are dozens if not hundreds of companies around the world that would be delighted, given the current situation, to be reporting such a figure.  Doesn’t the report author have an algorithm for the feel good factor the win brought to Kiwis? Seems to me there were more than a few delighted people lining the harbour walls as the boat came back in after Race 10

Thankfully investors are rather more resolute and far sighted than that, otherwise the global economy would be in meltdown, if indeed it could function at all.

The fact that the poor return has been highlighted by the organisation that Caecillian is a “ taxpayer  a stakeholder”  of shows the short termism of the report authors.

The same government, in reports that followed the 2000 & 2003 America’s Cups in Auckland, declared a collective benefit to the New Zealand economy of just shy of $1Bn.

Here in China the government announces a 5 year plan and then sticks to it (remember when every corporation used to do that?) It seldom changes it course because of a bump in the road, even when that bump is as big as COVID.

In addition the AC encouraged or perhaps was even the catalyst for the much needed re-development of Viaduct Basin which for 20 years has been utilised by businesses and their employees providing benefits to Aucklanders, the wider New Zealand population and of course the tourists that normally flock the area.

This probably (just guessing) has provided and continuous to provide a significant “taxpayer and stakeholder” input to the New Zealand economy.

As far as The Squadron is concerned, The Squadron Caecillian considers “an anachronism, a Gormenghast” actually has approaching 900 boat owning members so clearly a significant number of Kiwis don’t agree with him at all. What’s his problem? Did he get black-balled or something similar?

By the way I had to look up “Gormenghast”. Turns out it is a fantasy novel series which I suppose is quite appropriate.

He is partly right however that “the real club exists on the water”. To that end the RNZYS runs hundreds of races a year with between now and 31st December over 40 days when there is a sailing activity in the calendar. Not bad for a club which is an anachronism. Having said that, it is nice to have a convenient bar at the top of the marina for a wet after racing.

Regarding the venue, I, like most other AC aficionados would prefer a home defence. The key word is of course ‘defence’. If insufficiently funded then it would most likely be a capitulation. It would also likely be the last time there was an AC event on the waters off Auckland for a very long time indeed. If the Squadron/Team are having problems funding a defence what chance to they have raising funds for a challenge when they lost?

Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion.

It is a problem of their own making

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7 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

 It would also likely be the last time there was an AC event on the waters off Auckland for a very long time indeed.

Should the defense be taken away from NZ I think this will have the same result. 

After all, does anyone think that a city/government would offer hundreds of millions without a clause that forces a further defense, assuming the team is successful.

If the team loses after taking the cup away, I doubt the NZ public would give the team the time of day to try and start again.

So the days of the cup in Auckland are sadly over.

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Shanghai you seem to think that the AC is enormously popular in NZ, its not as much as you think. We are a parochial society that thinks that we should be the best at everything and if we are not then then opposition cheated by having too much money. There are vast sections of the population that view the cup as some rich mans thing but are willing to support it because of its team New Zealand. A great marketing move if ever there was one. For the average person the benefit is very little, for Aucklanders there is more in the sense of the buzz and media coverage, overall its a positive for national pride when we win. That acknowledged, there are more than a few who think it's a drain on the rest of sailing, which btw is struggling in Auckland like the rest of the world. The  material benefit of the cup goes to a select few, land and business owners mostly. Its an elite event for elites, by elites and it benefits elites. As I said, Dalton has done a great job but these recent iterations have compounded the faults baked into the deed. I dont apologise for being a traditionalist, and the IACC regattas held here were fantastic. They really did lift the profile of sailing and give an incredible excitement to the waterfront but there were lots of teams and it was a almost like a carnival. Now it's a dull in your face technical event with a handful of participants that is out of touch with the rest of sailing and the zeitgeist of the pandemic world.

As for the squadron, let's just leave it at "it's polarising" 

 

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Too add when Chris Dickson sailed in Perth in KZ7 we all were behind him, but it was a different world then. We love being the underdog, not the asshole. Now Dalts is the asshole so the country is confused!

 

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2 hours ago, Caecilian said:

Too add when Chris Dickson sailed in Perth in KZ7 we all were behind him, but it was a different world then. We love being the underdog, not the asshole. Now Dalts is the asshole so the country is confused!

 

He has taken the AC asshole crown from Fay. Fay must be happy as hell, even better, he gets to offer money to keep it here. Then, when it is turned down, he looks better than the guy spurning it.

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7 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Aren't you describing a problem with sailing fullstop?  Doesn't matter what level you play at it is expensive.

Its not cheap to keep a moored vessel in a marina but virtually anyone can afford a sailing dinghy. The AC is in a world of its own with its expense and politics. 

You could try (try is operative here) to compare it with F1 car racing, those teams are capped at 145 million (and reducing) a year. But if you take into account the calendar of 23 Grand Prix over about 46 weeks with a fanbase of 450 million vs the AC which only has 2 fans Shanghai and Fouryourselves and is held once every blue moon, its a no brainer- the F1 money is justified. 

I think the AC has a bright future but it needs to be wrested from NZ and opened up for more participation.

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9 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Aren't you describing a problem with sailing fullstop?  Doesn't matter what level you play at it is expensive.

He’s describing all of professional sports.

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11 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Aren't you describing a problem with sailing fullstop?  Doesn't matter what level you play at it is expensive.

Expensive compared to what? You can pick up and old dinghy or sailboard for sod-all and sail it off the beach.

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BREAKING

VALENCIA, SPAIN back on the Table to host 37th America's Cup!!!

FAREVELA claims Spain Officials from the Central Government in Madrid are in advanced Negotiations with Defender Emirates Team New Zealand.

https://farevela.net/2021/10/08/americas-cup-valencia-riprende-quota-trattative-avanzate-tra-il-governo-di-madrid-e-il-defender/

English Translation by Scuttlebutt

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2021/10/11/will-americas-cup-return-to-valencia/

Valencia’s candidacy resumes as an option to host the next edition of the America’s Cup in 2024. According to the Spanish national media, Valencia is the subject of advanced negotiations between the defender Emirates Team New Zealand and the Madrid government.

The Valencia headquarters, initially pushed by the Real Club Nautico de Valencia, receives the approval of the international sailing community, mindful of the unforgettable edition number 32 in 2007. The Port America’s Cup, now called Marina Real, still has most of the bases in operation and does not need any particular modifications.

For windy conditions, Valencia excels both in the fields south of the Saler and in the north of the Malvarrosa. The commercial port and the international airport facilitate any logistics, so the negotiation therefore concerns the amount that the Kiwis ask for to host the Cup.

It is understood to be about 30 to 40 million euros (35-46m USD), to which is added the part necessary for the organization. According to sources, also confirmed by a post from ETNZ helmsman Peter Burling, the negotiations with the central government of Madrid are progressing positively.

According to the findings of Fare Vela, private investments and funds from the Generalitat Valenciana, or the regional government of the Comunitat Valenciana, would then be added to the funds of the central government.

At the end of August, the Valencian option seemed to be wrecked due to the impossibility of satisfying the requests of the Kiwis, but now the direct involvement of the central government has relaunched the bid.

The Valencia option is one of three left on the table, along with Jeddah (Saudi Arabia) and Cork, Ireland. The announcement of the 37th America’s Cup venue is expected by November 17th.

 
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Wow, so that's why the Kiwi boat was in the one-off race on Friday. Imagine if Team Kiwi were negotiating AC business while on the SailGP dime! :o :lol:

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4 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

BREAKING

VALENCIA, SPAIN back on the Table to host 37th America's Cup!!!

FAREVELA claims Spain Officials from the Central Government in Madrid are in advanced Negotiations with Defender Emirates Team New Zealand.

https://farevela.net/2021/10/08/americas-cup-valencia-riprende-quota-trattative-avanzate-tra-il-governo-di-madrid-e-il-defender/

English Translation by Scuttlebutt

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2021/10/11/will-americas-cup-return-to-valencia/

Valencia’s candidacy resumes as an option to host the next edition of the America’s Cup in 2024. According to the Spanish national media, Valencia is the subject of advanced negotiations between the defender Emirates Team New Zealand and the Madrid government.

The Valencia headquarters, initially pushed by the Real Club Nautico de Valencia, receives the approval of the international sailing community, mindful of the unforgettable edition number 32 in 2007. The Port America’s Cup, now called Marina Real, still has most of the bases in operation and does not need any particular modifications.

For windy conditions, Valencia excels both in the fields south of the Saler and in the north of the Malvarrosa. The commercial port and the international airport facilitate any logistics, so the negotiation therefore concerns the amount that the Kiwis ask for to host the Cup.

It is understood to be about 30 to 40 million euros (35-46m USD), to which is added the part necessary for the organization. According to sources, also confirmed by a post from ETNZ helmsman Peter Burling, the negotiations with the central government of Madrid are progressing positively.

According to the findings of Fare Vela, private investments and funds from the Generalitat Valenciana, or the regional government of the Comunitat Valenciana, would then be added to the funds of the central government.

At the end of August, the Valencian option seemed to be wrecked due to the impossibility of satisfying the requests of the Kiwis, but now the direct involvement of the central government has relaunched the bid.

The Valencia option is one of three left on the table, along with Jeddah (Saudi Arabia) and Cork, Ireland. The announcement of the 37th America’s Cup venue is expected by November 17th.

 

I thought  $M30 had been in the initial deal with the NZ gov.? Shirley they are not moving it offshore when there’s only 15M to be arm wrestled for?

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Valencia has the infrastructure so it makes sense.

Time will tell, but if the team get the required funding, Ironically the NZ SailGP team may have secured the AC for another cycle lol

How's it ironic?

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6 hours ago, ro! said:

I thought  $M30 had been in the initial deal with the NZ gov.? Shirley they are not moving it offshore when there’s only 15M to be arm wrestled for?

Hope you are well sir, it's been ages...

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On 10/8/2021 at 9:18 AM, Forourselves said:

You judge me without knowing a thing about Me, then call me shallow.

Daltons a winner. Team NZ has been, is and always will be the NZ National Team. 

 

finkle is einhorn, einhorn is finkle?

image.thumb.png.c1586c9ef41fb1222c3dba851ff39772.png

 

image.png

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5 hours ago, yoyo said:

ETNZ is entered in SailGP that's breaking news.  

 

Why would LE give any shit about if SGP helps ETNZ to raise cash? Seems LE is happy for all SGP teams to get franchised and profitable over time, why would SGP NZ be any different from the other 8 teams? 

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16 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Because SailGP was created because Larry was beaten by ETNZ in the AC, only for ETNZ to enter Larrys circuit to gain funding for a 2nd AC defence.

I'm sure I've missed something but how did TNZ entering SailGP before AC36 was even held help gain TNZ funding for AC37?

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11 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Why would LE give any shit about if SGP helps ETNZ to raise cash? Seems LE is happy for all SGP teams to get franchised and profitable over time, why would SGP NZ be any different from the other 8 teams? 

giphy.gif.1e13bdabeec87e7290d667252e35192a.gif

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6 minutes ago, porthos said:

I'm sure I've missed something but how did TNZ entering SailGP before AC36 was even held help gain TNZ funding for AC37?

Schmoozing in Spain and such eg with the King during this season probably didn't hurt now in garnering goodwill for Tuke, Burling and so forth? 

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Just now, NeedAClew said:

Schmoozing in Spain and such eg with the King during this season probably didn't hurt now in garnering goodwill for Tuke, Burling and so forth? 

I ask because I do not know: was there some report of schmoozing from TNZ with anyone from Spain about AC37 while the SailGP regatta was going on? I hadn't seen anything but I also barely had time to watch the regatta (delayed) this past weekend. Is the suggestion that somehow seeing sailboats bus around Cadiz was influential in helping Spain decide to invest money in AC37? That would seem odd. Spain has plenty of prior experience with the AC, so I'm not sure how SailGP would have any influence on that.

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