The AC 37 has started, news and rumours

[Horn Rock 1,714]

^^^ I wasn't referring to the sailing, just the idea that KSA is such a no go zone for so many in here. The inference that every second person is a terrorist, suicide bomber hell bent on martyrdom is such perceptive nonsense, conceived from wildly fanciful notions of everyday life in far away places.   

[Gissie 1,765]

1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

No splinters to worry about at least! ;-)

A new meaning to having a prodder.

[Forourselves 1,694]

With all the shit going on (on here mainly) to give a bit of perspective on the REAL teams, and the fact that they're all competitors, but when the shit hits the fan, there is no hesitation to help each other out.

This video, this story captures those moments really well.

 

[Stingray~ 2,284]

9 hours ago, Xlot said:

Don’t know why Pizza (??!!) keeps harping about Naples. As Chobani says, the only real danger there is to your gold Rolex (seems to be a fetish for the local camorristi) if you insist on acting the rich dumb tourist. 

MOF, @Stingray~ should be there right now, let’s see if he comes back alive   

True, dang nearly commented about this obsession PoF has with Naples too.

Went to supposedly ‘the oldest Pizzeria Antica in the world’ (established 1738) last night, the Margherita was to die for. Then took a stroll around Piazza Bellini and Piazza Dante and at around 10pm there were still people of all stripes including children kicking balls around, enjoying a beautiful Friday night. No sense of any danger, nothing but good vibes  

edit: to NAC yes, the Archeological Museum is stunning, most especially the Farnese Collection.  

[Rennmaus 3,064]

7 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Special efforts or no special efforts, surely the fact that they're doing it at all is what the focus should be on.

You say their laws prohibit it, yet they're still doing it knowing they're breaking not only their own law, but international law as well.

Dictatorships make no bones about the fact that their own laws are what matters to them, while Western governments preach about the importance of law and order both domestically and internationally while blatantly breaking those very same laws.

It shows that you never had to live under a dictatorship or nearby. That you never had to weight every word you say and to whom you say it to avoid imprisonment and torture. You probably never searched your car for newspapers, precious metals and wrong travel documents before crossing the border of such a country, for fear of police interrogations and imprisonment. Lucky you for not recognizing the difference between democratic societies and dictatorships.
 

5 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Plenty of pickpockets about Bratislava, too. Too bad they don't have a seaport in Slovakia, although the Danube is prolly wide enough to accomodate a stadium course, down in the south. ;-) I guess, Deed legal could be a problem though, eh? ;-)

As per the Deed (bold mine):
"The Club challenging for the Cup and the Club holding the same may, by mutual consent, make any arrangement satisfactory to both as to the dates, courses, number of trials, rules and sailing regulations, and any and all other conditions of the match, in which case also the ten months' notice may be waived."

4 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

^^^ I wasn't referring to the sailing, just the idea that KSA is such a no go zone for so many in here. The inference that every second person is a terrorist, suicide bomber hell bent on martyrdom is such perceptive nonsense, conceived from wildly fanciful notions of everyday life in far away places.   

Certainly all that terrorism talk is BS, and I would love to visit KSA. Nevertheless, I don't want to ATM due to the obvious human rights issues, especially when it comes to my gender.

[Forourselves 1,694]

47 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

It shows that you never had to live under a dictatorship or nearby. That you never had to weight every word you say and to whom you say it to avoid imprisonment and torture. You probably never searched your car for newspapers, precious metals and wrong travel documents before crossing the border of such a country, for fear of police interrogations and imprisonment. Lucky you for not recognizing the difference between democratic societies and dictatorships.
 

As per the Deed (bold mine):
"The Club challenging for the Cup and the Club holding the same may, by mutual consent, make any arrangement satisfactory to both as to the dates, courses, number of trials, rules and sailing regulations, and any and all other conditions of the match, in which case also the ten months' notice may be waived."

Certainly all that terrorism talk is BS, and I would love to visit KSA. Nevertheless, I don't want to ATM due to the obvious human rights issues, especially when it comes to my gender.

Some muslim people are subject to those very things on entrance to the US.

No, I haven't, but there are plenty of westerners living and working in SA today. 

Obviously Women are still treated as 2nd class citizens, but thats because they live by Islamic law. Thats the way they live. They have done for millennia.

 

 

 

[The Main Man 237]

2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Some muslim people are subject to those very things on entrance to the US.

No, I haven't, but there are plenty of westerners living and working in SA today. 

Obviously Women are still treated as 2nd class citizens, but thats because they live by Islamic law. Thats the way they live. They have done for millennia.

 

 

 

So that makes it ok does it? Ok then…..

[Rennmaus 3,064]

4 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Some muslim people are subject to those very things on entrance to the US.

No, I haven't, but there are plenty of westerners living and working in SA today. 

Obviously Women are still treated as 2nd class citizens, but thats because they live by Islamic law. Thats the way they live. They have done for millennia.

 

 

 

Oh, the "Western" world was burning witches for quite some time. TBH, I'm pretty happy that we evolved and don't live by it now, apparently contrary to you. Why don't you like societal progress but are so enthusiastic about perceived progress in the AC?

Please explain your meaning of "millennia". AFAIK, Islam was founded in the 7th century AD; where do you have the information from that Islamic law is thousands of years old?

[Forourselves 1,694]

15 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Oh, the "Western" world was burning witches for quite some time. TBH, I'm pretty happy that we evolved and don't live by it now, apparently contrary to you. Why don't you like societal progress but are so enthusiastic about perceived progress in the AC?

Please explain your meaning of "millennia". AFAIK, Islam was founded in the 7th century AD; where do you have the information from that Islamic law is thousands of years old?

Their country, their law. No one can force them to live the way we want them to!

I don't care for the Islamic faith, but I respect those who practice it. If that means women wear culturally appropriate attire, attire that fits within their laws, so be it. Don't like it, don't go there.

 

 

[Forourselves 1,694]

29 minutes ago, The Main Man said:

So that makes it ok does it? Ok then…..

Ok to who?

[Rennmaus 3,064]

11 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Their country, their law. No one can force them to live the way we want them to!

I don't care for the Islamic faith, but I respect those who practice it. If that means women wear culturally appropriate attire, attire that fits within their laws, so be it. Don't like it, don't go there.

 

 

It's not about the attire and you know it. 

[The Main Man 237]

11 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Ok to who?

Women perhaps? I wonder if you would even be making such an argument if your beloved team weren't considering holding the next AC over there.

[Forourselves 1,694]

Just now, Rennmaus said:

It's not about the attire and you know it. 

Its about treatment of women? Simple, don't go there.

[Forourselves 1,694]

2 minutes ago, The Main Man said:

Women perhaps? I wonder if you would even be making such an argument if your beloved team weren't considering holding the next AC over there.

You go to any nation, you follow their laws.

[The Main Man 237]

Just now, Forourselves said:

You go to any nation, you follow their laws.

Obviously. However you said this which isn't the same as people visiting:

"Obviously Women are still treated as 2nd class citizens, but thats because they live by Islamic law. Thats the way they live. They have done for millennia."

[Forourselves 1,694]

10 minutes ago, The Main Man said:

Obviously. However you said this which isn't the same as people visiting:

"Obviously Women are still treated as 2nd class citizens, but thats because they live by Islamic law. Thats the way they live. They have done for millennia."

Yes, I did. Like I said, go to any nation, you follow their laws. You are a visitor in their country, you follow the law like everyone else.

When was the last time women sailed in the AC? 1995? 21 years ago.

I would've thought you'd be praising Dalts for giving Women an actual pathway to the AC?

 

 

[dogwatch 1,320]

2 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Certainly all that terrorism talk is BS, and I would love to visit KSA. Nevertheless, I don't want to ATM due to the obvious human rights issues, especially when it comes to my gender.

An interesting and nuanced account of a solo western woman travelling in Saudi Arabia. https://www.businessinsider.com/female-solo-traveler-went-to-saudi-arabia-heres-what-i-saw?r=US&IR=T

It's worth reading to the section on Jeddah, which she found significantly different and more relaxed.

Personally, I've been to Saudi Arabia, it was an interesting experience and I'm glad to have had the opportunity but I've no great desire to repeat it. I've never in my life been so happy to be going home.

[dogwatch 1,320]

On 10/13/2021 at 12:11 AM, Chobani Sailor said:

JR has communicated to GD that Ineos will not agree to an event in the ME...."...safety and security of our team members and families are of utmost importance.....the level of safety and security needed for our team and our American allies cannot be guaranteed and therefore I will not support any event taking place in any body of water located in the Middle East."

There's no way for me to know for certain if this is real or fake news. However I find the use of the term "American allies" bizarre in the context. It's the AC, not the Normandy landings. So, sorry, I lean towards fake.

[Pizza on Fire 11]

15 hours ago, Xlot said:

Don’t know why Pizza (??!!) keeps harping about Naples. As Chobani says, the only real danger there is to your gold Rolex (seems to be a fetish for the local camorristi) if you insist on acting the rich dumb tourist. 

MOF, @Stingray~ should be there right now, let’s see if he comes back alive   

Your chances of getting robbed, mugged, assaulted or shot are statistically much, much higher in ANY Italian city than anywhere in KSA, UAE or Qatar, where they are practically nil. I just mention Naples because it is the city in Italy where these chances are the highest. Naples is a very beautiful but, unfortunately, crime-ridden city.

Since it appears that everybody in this forum is suddenly worried about safety in AC37, please check the latest travel advisories from the State Department regarding Italy, France and the UK!!!! Guess in which countries one should exercise "increased caution due to terrorism"??? No sailing event should ever be held there anytime soon… 

The following things can also happen to you if you are a woman traveling in France. If you follow the State Department's instructions to the letter, no single US woman should ever set foot on French soil… 

Be aware of “date-rape” drugs, which are present in France. In the last year, the Embassy has assisted multiple victims who appear to have been targeted using these drugs.

Be cautious in bars and clubs where alcohol is served, and do not leave your drink unattended or accept a drink from strangers, as they may have slipped drugs into the drink. See our travel tips for Women Travelers.

There are high incidences of “smash and grab” robberies in economically depressed areas or on highly traveled thoroughfares such as roads to and from the airport. Thieves on foot or motorcycle will approach a vehicle that is stopped in traffic, smash a window, reach into the vehicle to grab a purse or other valuable item, and then flee. Keep doors locked and valuables out of sight.

[Xlot 1,162]

11 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

I disagree, I think KSA would be a fascinating place to visit. Everyone seems caught up in the regime/politics, but the actual truth on the ground would be nowhere near what's being speculated in here. I say this as someone who traveled the length of Iran in the 80s while it was at war with Iraq, also during the Khomeini regime. It was perfectly safe, and very enjoyable. The locals were rapt to see a few tourists, and were incredibly friendly and went out of their way to be hospitable. I was invited to numerous amazing private homes in Isfahan. A local lent me his car - for free. The friendliness was almost over whelming.

They've opened up a lot of previously closed parts of KSA, that very few westerners have ever seen. I think it would be amazing.....

https://www.visitsaudi.com/en  

Informative post, and I agree. With the minor criticism that you’re talking about IRAN, Saudi is a totally different story. In fact, I’ve yet to see people so ready to embrace the US (with the possible exception of Cuba) if only the vagaries of history and the CIA had let them. And obviously, they’re NOT arabs. Although come to think of it Iraquis under Saddam were similar, Bahrainis are fun rascals, Emiratis are OK and Omanis the best of the lot. 

But Saudis (and Kuwaitis) are bedouins - still tribal, diffident of foreigners (with reason, most of the time), an inferiority complex turning into aggressiveness - traits that one can still find in Sicily, tellingly.

As for natural beauties and scenery, once you’ve seen one Rub-Al-Khali dune, you’ve seen them all ...

[NeedAClew 1,786]

I've never been to a lot of places that I have no desire to see. Lots of people have tham on their bucket lists. They have lots to offer but not what I plan to spend time and money seeing.

KSA and UAE are two.

More include Iceland, Portugal, Brazil, India, Tahiti, Pearl Harbor. All have much to offer but not for me. 

[Xlot 1,162]

RG clutching at straws yet again

https://www.sail-world.com/news/242893/Americas-Cup-Valencia-Revisited

Needless to say, still no mention in the Spanish press. What I gather the government position is facilities may be made available, with a cost in the 100k, while race costs would be up to private contributions. No mention of a venue purse, of course

At least, in AKL infrastructure and race costs would be covered by the government, no?

[Stingray~ 2,284]

29 minutes ago, Xlot said:

At least, in AKL … 

My understanding too. 
 

Not much has changed since this article was published

https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/27-09-2021/aucklands-americas-cup-dream-isnt-dead-yet/

[accnick 1,753]

2 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

I've never been to a lot of places that I have no desire to see. Lots of people have tham on their bucket lists. They have lots to offer but not what I plan to spend time and money seeing.

KSA and UAE are two.

More include Iceland, Portugal, Brazil, India, Tahiti, Pearl Harbor. All have much to offer but not for me. 

Well, I've never been to KSA (although I sailed parallel to its coast along the middle of the Red Sea), and have only been through the airport in the UAE, but have been in the other places you seem to have no interest in. 

I can say that you are missing out on some really interesting places, but I'm a guy who is interested in other cultures, used to love to travel, and did it constantly for both work and pleasure in pre-Covid days.

For sure, not every place I worked or traveled to is on my "gotta go back there" list. In particular, you can keep parts of Southeast Asia, Russia, and most of the Middle East. Been there, done that, and did not bother getting the T-shirt.

[Rennmaus 3,064]

4 hours ago, Pizza on Fire said:

Your chances of getting robbed, mugged, assaulted or shot are statistically much, much higher in ANY Italian city than anywhere in KSA, UAE or Qatar, where they are practically nil. I just mention Naples because it is the city in Italy where these chances are the highest. Naples is a very beautiful but, unfortunately, crime-ridden city.

Since it appears that everybody in this forum is suddenly worried about safety in AC37, please check the latest travel advisories from the State Department regarding Italy, France and the UK!!!! Guess in which countries one should exercise "increased caution due to terrorism"??? No sailing event should ever be held there anytime soon… 

The following things can also happen to you if you are a woman traveling in France. If you follow the State Department's instructions to the letter, no single US woman should ever set foot on French soil… 

Be aware of “date-rape” drugs, which are present in France. In the last year, the Embassy has assisted multiple victims who appear to have been targeted using these drugs.

Be cautious in bars and clubs where alcohol is served, and do not leave your drink unattended or accept a drink from strangers, as they may have slipped drugs into the drink. See our travel tips for Women Travelers.

There are high incidences of “smash and grab” robberies in economically depressed areas or on highly traveled thoroughfares such as roads to and from the airport. Thieves on foot or motorcycle will approach a vehicle that is stopped in traffic, smash a window, reach into the vehicle to grab a purse or other valuable item, and then flee. Keep doors locked and valuables out of sight.

Wow, like the US.

[NeedAClew 1,786]

55 minutes ago, accnick said:

Well, I've never been to KSA (although I sailed parallel to its coast along the middle of the Red Sea), and have only been through the airport in the UAE, but have been in the other places you seem to have no interest in. 

I can say that you are missing out on some really interesting places, but I'm a guy who is interested in other cultures, used to love to travel, and did it constantly for both work and pleasure in pre-Covid days.

For sure, not every place I worked or traveled to is on my "gotta go back there" list. In particular, you can keep parts of Southeast Asia, Russia, and most of the Middle East. Been there, done that, and did not bother getting the T-shirt.

It's not like I don't like other cultures, travel, etc. I traveled a lot for work and precovid for fun. Rode an East German manufactured roller coaster in 1980 Moscow in January (wind chill) and we were going back in 2020. Not.  I have been to interesting places, just not the ones I mentioned. Tradeoffs. A priority is Red Sea but Egypt.  

[Stingray~ 2,284]

2 hours ago, Xlot said:

RG clutching at straws yet again

https://www.sail-world.com/news/242893/Americas-Cup-Valencia-Revisited

Needless to say, still no mention in the Spanish press. What I gather the government position is facilities may be made available, with a cost in the 100k, while race costs would be up to private contributions. No mention of a venue purse, of course

At least, in AKL infrastructure and race costs would be covered by the government, no?

Could be what RG is now clutching onto

https://www-lasprovincias-es.translate.goog/deportes/ayuntamiento-espera-informe-20211015001512-ntvo_amp.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=it&_x_tr_pto=nui

[dogwatch 1,320]

It doesn't sound like Valencia is going to outbid Auckland, unless some very generous private sponsors are waiting in the wings.

 

[Gissie 1,765]

40 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

It doesn't sound like Valencia is going to outbid Auckland, unless some very generous private sponsors are waiting in the wings.

 

You would think that any private sponsor willing to pay hundreds of millions, as required by the team, would find it cheaper to just enter a team.

[accnick 1,753]

1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

It's not like I don't like other cultures, travel, etc. I traveled a lot for work and precovid for fun. Rode an East German manufactured roller coaster in 1980 Moscow in January (wind chill) and we were going back in 2020. Not.  I have been to interesting places, just not the ones I mentioned. Tradeoffs. A priority is Red Sea but Egypt.  

The best thing about Egypt is the Cairo Museum. OK, and there is (or used to be ) a Pizza Hut almost next to the Sphinx, if you want American junk food after your camel ride.

Seriously, We were very happy to spit ourselves out of the Suez Canal into the Med and head towards Israel after Eritrea, Sudan, and Egypt. Oman gets high marks--except for the guy who ran amok with a sword in the public market. Eritrea was an unexpected adventure. We avoided stopping in Yemen after a boat a week in front of us was attacked there. We were also specifically told not to even think of trying to enter KSA, not that it was high on our list.

I agree, it is all about tradeoffs. Life is short. See what you want in person, and watch videos of the rest.

[Gissie 1,765]

7 minutes ago, accnick said:

The best thing about Egypt is the Cairo Museum. OK, and there is (or used to be ) a Pizza Hut almost next to the Sphinx, if you want American junk food after your camel ride.

Seriously, We were very happy to spit ourselves out of the Suez Canal into the Med and head towards Israel after Eritrea, Sudan, and Egypt. Oman gets high marks--except for the guy who ran amok with a sword in the public market. Eritrea was an unexpected adventure. We avoided stopping in Yemen after a boat a week in front of us was attacked there. We were also specifically told not to even think of trying to enter KSA, not that it was high on our list.

I agree, it is all about tradeoffs. Life is short. See what you want in person, and watch videos of the rest.

Surely you didn't miss the delights of Djibouti?

[NeedAClew 1,786]

8 minutes ago, accnick said:

The best thing about Egypt is the Cairo Museum. OK, and there is (or used to be ) a Pizza Hut almost next to the Sphinx, if you want American junk food after your camel ride.

Seriously, We were very happy to spit ourselves out of the Suez Canal into the Med and head towards Israel after Eritrea, Sudan, and Egypt. Oman gets high marks--except for the guy who ran amok with a sword in the public market. Eritrea was an unexpected adventure. We avoided stopping in Yemen after a boat a week in front of us was attacked there. We were also specifically told not to even think of trying to enter KSA, not that it was high on our list.

I agree, it is all about tradeoffs. Life is short. See what you want in person, and watch videos of the rest.

I do want to see that museum. Also the new tombs and others from Luxor. Mr Clew wants to go to Israel, ok.  But not sure we'll snorkel there, the spot seems limited compared to others. Tahiti is more expensive than Fiji and the Great Astrolabe reef is gorgeous. Indonesia even better in coral triangle. Want to see more of China, Japan. Maybe Vietnam. We'll always have Paris, lol.

[Gissie 1,765]

After almost 30 years around the world, if it wasn't for kids and grandkids overseas I would happily burn my passport and never step foot in an airport again.

[Xlot 1,162]

2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Could be what RG is now clutching onto

https://www-lasprovincias-es.translate.goog/deportes/ayuntamiento-espera-informe-20211015001512-ntvo_amp.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=it&_x_tr_pto=nui

Now, it’s Valencia’s turn to expect a “serious and rigorous” report. Somebody should tell them to wait for Cork’s evaluation and translate it  . Anyway, they keep bringing up instances of 100k€ contributions, certainly not millions

[pusslicker 666]

10 hours ago, Pizza on Fire said:

Your chances of getting robbed, mugged, assaulted or shot are statistically much, much higher in ANY Italian city than anywhere in KSA, UAE or Qatar, where they are practically nil. I just mention Naples because it is the city in Italy where these chances are the highest. Naples is a very beautiful but, unfortunately, crime-ridden city.

Since it appears that everybody in this forum is suddenly worried about safety in AC37, please check the latest travel advisories from the State Department regarding Italy, France and the UK!!!! Guess in which countries one should exercise "increased caution due to terrorism"??? No sailing event should ever be held there anytime soon… 

The following things can also happen to you if you are a woman traveling in France. If you follow the State Department's instructions to the letter, no single US woman should ever set foot on French soil… 

Be aware of “date-rape” drugs, which are present in France. In the last year, the Embassy has assisted multiple victims who appear to have been targeted using these drugs.

Be cautious in bars and clubs where alcohol is served, and do not leave your drink unattended or accept a drink from strangers, as they may have slipped drugs into the drink. See our travel tips for Women Travelers.

There are high incidences of “smash and grab” robberies in economically depressed areas or on highly traveled thoroughfares such as roads to and from the airport. Thieves on foot or motorcycle will approach a vehicle that is stopped in traffic, smash a window, reach into the vehicle to grab a purse or other valuable item, and then flee. Keep doors locked and valuables out of sight.

What the fuck does street crime have to do with any of this? Westerners don't want to go to some religious, close-minded shithole to watch the AC. This has got to be a ShanghaiSailor alt.

[Xlot 1,162]

8 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

What the fuck does street crime have to do with any of this? Westerners don't want to go to some religious, close-minded shithole to watch the AC. This has got to be a ShanghaiSailor alt.

Dunno. One doesn’t go and live in Al-Ain without an absorbing interest - in camels ...

[accnick 1,753]

3 hours ago, Gissie said:

Surely you didn't miss the delights of Djibouti?

Yes, we did. Actually went non-stop straight from Salalah, Oman, to  Mitsiwa (Massawa), Eritrea.

Oh, except for a brief stopover parked on a coral reef off the islet of Port Smyth due to a navigation error entering the anchorage there at nightfall.

But that's a story for another day.

[Gissie 1,765]

26 minutes ago, accnick said:

Yes, we did. Actually went non-stop straight from Salalah, Oman, to  Mitsiwa (Massawa), Eritrea.

Oh, except for a brief stopover parked on a coral reef off the islet of Port Smyth due to a navigation error entering the anchorage there at nightfall.

But that's a story for another day.

I always did Salalah, Djibouti then straight up to Suez. Managed to miss the reefs, well not the ones in the sails. Either no wind or far to much, although blasting through Bab-el-Mandeb at night with 45 up the chock hole was fun.

[accnick 1,753]

32 minutes ago, Gissie said:

I always did Salalah, Djibouti then straight up to Suez. Managed to miss the reefs, well not the ones in the sails. Either no wind or far to much, although blasting through Bab-el-Mandeb at night with 45 up the chock hole was fun.

It always seems to blow 45  through Bab-el-Mendeb.  We were sailing along in 15 kt as the sun went down and we entered the strait. A few minutes later, it was a steady 35 gusting 45. Fortunately, I had put in two reefs in anticipation. It didn't help that we had a bloody great tanker about two miles away at the time.

The Red Sea is not the greatest place to sail. We were just booking it up to the Med as quick as we could, which turned out to be a couple of weeks.

[dg_sailingfan 68]

The Modern America's Cup has always been held in "ODD-YEARS" except for 1988 (DoG) 1992, 2000 and the DoG Match in 2010.

2021: AC36

2017: AC35

2013: AC34

2010: AC33

2007: AC32

2003: AC31

2000: AC30

1995: AC29

1992: AC28

1988: AC27

1987: AC26

1983: AC25

And the Main Reason for it to be held in Odd-Years is that Organizers/Defenders didn't want to intervene with the Soccer World Cup or the Olympics.

[NeedAClew 1,786]

So 2023 here we go!

[Gissie 1,765]

2 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

So 2023 here we go!

As long as they can find a venue by then.

[enigmatically2 1,483]

13 hours ago, pusslicker said:

This has got to be a ShanghaiSailor alt.

Same denial, different paymasters

[dg_sailingfan 68]

16 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

So 2023 here we go!

2025 is more likely!

[Priscilla 2,804]

17 hours ago, Gissie said:

As long as they can find a venue by then.

Yup and also find a venue that will pay the costs for a foreign AC campaign provide the required infrastructure and wear the costs of the event fee should be a simple task considering it’s the third most popular international sporting event.

[Gissie 1,765]

18 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Yup and also find a venue that will pay the costs for a foreign AC campaign provide the required infrastructure and wear the costs of the event fee should be a simple task considering it’s the third most popular international sporting event.

You would think Dalts would be beating them off with a stick...

[Forourselves 1,694]

There WILL be a venue. And then what? You gonna bag on Dalton because he has a venue? After all this time bagging him because he doesn’t have a venue you’re all gonna bag him again because he has one. 

[enigmatically2 1,483]

10 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

There WILL be a venue. And then what? You gonna bag on Dalton because he has a venue? After all this time bagging him because he doesn’t have a venue you’re all gonna bag him again because he has one. 

Clearly there will be a venue. Question is whether he will get enough to pay the deficit and fund a decent campaign

[pusslicker 666]

On 10/16/2021 at 2:46 AM, Forourselves said:

Its about treatment of women? Simple, don't go there.

That is the point people here are arguing. GD shouldn't go there. He is a whore and has poorly managed his team to the point of having to accept dirty money to fund it and his lifestyle. 

[pusslicker 666]

19 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

The Modern America's Cup has always been held in "ODD-YEARS" except for 1988 (DoG) 1992, 2000 and the DoG Match in 2010.

2021: AC36

2017: AC35

2013: AC34

2010: AC33

2007: AC32

2003: AC31

2000: AC30

1995: AC29

1992: AC28

1988: AC27

1987: AC26

1983: AC25

And the Main Reason for it to be held in Odd-Years is that Organizers/Defenders didn't want to intervene with the Soccer World Cup or the Olympics.

So it's in odd years except when it isn't?

[Gissie 1,765]

1 hour ago, pusslicker said:

So it's in odd years except when it isn't?

[Forourselves 1,694]

2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Clearly there will be a venue. Question is whether he will get enough to pay the deficit and fund a decent campaign

Whatever he accepts will be what he has to work with. It will be more than what NZ could offer, that much is certain. Clearly Ainslie has had more than enough to fund decent campaigns, he just hasn’t been able to put a decent campaign together. 

[Forourselves 1,694]

2 hours ago, pusslicker said:

That is the point people here are arguing. GD shouldn't go there. He is a whore and has poorly managed his team to the point of having to accept dirty money to fund it and his lifestyle. 

Poorly managed in what way? His team are back to back winners and you’re gonna accuse him of managing his team poorly? Every sport has and will continue to accept “dirty money”. From Football to Rugby to the Olympics to F1 to the AC. INEOS can be considered as dirty money to some as well. SA is one of the largest oil exporters in the world, I hope you’re gonna stop buying gas. 

[NeedAClew 1,786]

Anybody suspected GD is losing it? 

[Fiji Bitter 1,976]

Really, what a silly sanctimonious lot you all are here, holy moly.

[Forourselves 1,694]

It’s funny that you were all bagging S+S because they didn’t have the money to compete in the last edition, saying shit like “if you can’t afford to compete then fuck off” and even now, saying the same rubbish about Team NZ not having money to compete while at the same time moaning about costs being too high. Which is it? Is it fuck off if you don’t have the money or is it that it’s too expensive? 

[Gissie 1,765]

11 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Really, what a silly sanctimonious lot you all are here, holy moly.

Said one of the biggest dickhead here. And in bold as well.

Fuck I love this place.

[Gissie 1,765]

37 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Anybody suspected GD is losing it? 

Cup or mind...

[NeedAClew 1,786]

One might be why the formerly well oiled machine is running rough in keeping the cup. Erratic or unusual  decision-making can start way way before anyone suspects things are off. Happened to my boss.

 

[NeedAClew 1,786]

We bagged S+S because they talked big and never raised enough to get a boat but would not admit it. Bad look. Made them forever suspect. And LBYC looked like a joke.

[Forourselves 1,694]

34 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

We bagged S+S because they talked big and never raised enough to get a boat but would not admit it. Bad look. Made them forever suspect. And LBYC looked like a joke.

As opposed to AM turning up and not winning a race? Seems NYYC thought they looked like a joke too.

[NeedAClew 1,786]

At least they showed up with a boat.

[Gissie 1,765]

25 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

At least they showed up with a boat.

True fat. Plus dumping all over a team that gave it a shot is not the best of ways to encourage new teams.

"Come enter our game, we will even sell you plans for an out of date sitter so you have no chance, if you want to. Then when it turns to custard we will dump all over you for being useless."

All while the team can't even sell the event so they can defend. 

[Forourselves 1,694]

1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

At least they showed up with a boat.

And not much else.

The only reason they got out for the semi's was because the Kiwi's helped them out.

Then got dumped by their club.

But back to bagging Dalts... 

[pusslicker 666]

 

1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

As opposed to AM turning up and not winning a race? Seems NYYC thought they looked like a joke too.

They did fill out the numbers. Got you close to 50% of the challengers you promised.

[Forourselves 1,694]

50 minutes ago, Gissie said:

True fat. Plus dumping all over a team that gave it a shot is not the best of ways to encourage new teams.

"Come enter our game, we will even sell you plans for an out of date sitter so you have no chance, if you want to. Then when it turns to custard we will dump all over you for being useless."

All while the team can't even sell the event so they can defend. 

Thats the point I'm making. They couldn't afford to compete, and yet people shat on them for that very reason, infact saying they should "Fuck off if they can't afford to compete"

Now they're saying the opposite saying "Dalts choice of boat is too expensive and he should reduce costs to encourage new teams to compete"

Which is it? Fuck off if you can't afford it or reduce costs so they can compete? 

 

 

 

[Forourselves 1,694]

2 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

 

They did fill out the numbers. Got you close to 50% of the challengers you promised.

Promised?

[Forourselves 1,694]

3 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

 

They did fill out the numbers. Got you close to 50% of the challengers you promised.

Which is exactly what Dalts did in 2013.

[Forourselves 1,694]

2 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

We bagged S+S because they talked big and never raised enough to get a boat but would not admit it. Bad look. Made them forever suspect. And LBYC looked like a joke.

Surely withdrawing is "admission" enough?

[Gissie 1,765]

1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Thats the point I'm making. They couldn't afford to compete, and yet people shat on them for that very reason, infact saying they should "Fuck off if they can't afford to compete"

Now they're saying the opposite saying "Dalts choice of boat is too expensive and he should reduce costs to encourage new teams to compete"

Which is it? Fuck off if you can't afford it or reduce costs so they can compete? 

 

 

 

They could afford it, they turned up with a boat. A boat that was seriously fast at the beginning, until they fucked it. Then they never recovered, the fact they even got back on the race course was a big thing, the time lost fixing rather than developing was not recoverable at that stage.

As for T(NZ) not having the money, they set the rules,  so they should take a concrete pill and get on with it.

Bugger, your idiocy pulls me in to often.

[Forourselves 1,694]

4 minutes ago, Gissie said:

They could afford it, they turned up with a boat. A boat that was seriously fast at the beginning, until they fucked it. Then they never recovered, the fact they even got back on the race course was a big thing, the time lost fixing rather than developing was not recoverable at that stage.

As for T(NZ) not having the money, they set the rules,  so they should take a concrete pill and get on with it.

Bugger, your idiocy pulls me in to often.

Yes, they turned up, and got their asses kicked like I said they would.

AM is irrelevant. The fact is you people moan about the costs being too high while saying teams should fuck off if they can't afford it.

Both statements contradict each other.

[Gissie 1,765]

34 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Yes, they turned up, and got their asses kicked like I said they would.

AM is irrelevant. The fact is you people moan about the costs being too high while saying teams should fuck off if they can't afford it.

Both statements contradict each other.

They were fast at the beginning were they not? Worryingly fast until they stuffed the nose.

I don't care about the costs, all set by the defender. But when a defender is starting to flail around, desperately seeking a very stupid venue willing to pay hundreds of millions, they begin to look worse than you consider AM.

They may of course pull a rabbit from the hat, but all the possible venues can smell blood in the water. Why offer a stupidly large amount when you know the only number on the table is 99mill in NZ pesos.

[Forourselves 1,694]

2 minutes ago, Gissie said:

They were fast at the beginning were they not? Worryingly fast until they stuffed the nose.

I don't care about the costs, all set by the defender. But when a defender is starting to flail around, desperately seeking a very stupid venue willing to pay hundreds of millions, they begin to look worse than you consider AM.

They may of course pull a rabbit from the hat, but all the possible venues can smell blood in the water. Why offer a stupidly large amount when you know the only number on the table is 99mill in NZ pesos.

As Ken Read said "They had flaws in their program that were exposed. You can't blame it all on the crash"

Were they "worryingly fast"? No, they weren't. It was clear LR weren't polished during the ACWS, they had boat speed and handling issues, that much was clear. INEOS had all sorts of issues which were well documented.

AM looked just like ETNZ did in San Francisco, polished crew work and tactics, but they peaked too early. And that was obvious. Patriot peaked in the ACWS, and got passed literally and metaphorically by the other teams. In the "American Magics defining moment" video Ken Read said exactly that. He said the same thing immediately after AM exited the series. Terry Hutchinson was AM's leader and their biggest flaw.

Depends how good a salesman Dalton is. Its no secret many European nations are looking to bounce back from the effects of Covid. If Dalton can sell the event to potential governments and/ or sponsors and investors, they might just see the event, as a potential opportunity to achieve that.

Just because NZ wasn't prepared to host, doesn't mean no one else is.

 

[Forourselves 1,694]

Ken Read explains American Magics campaign in a couple of easy to understand sentences. From 10m 40 seconds.

 

[Gissie 1,765]

41 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

As Ken Read said "They had flaws in their program that were exposed. You can't blame it all on the crash"

Were they "worryingly fast"? No, they weren't. It was clear LR weren't polished during the ACWS, they had boat speed and handling issues, that much was clear. INEOS had all sorts of issues which were well documented.

AM looked just like ETNZ did in San Francisco, polished crew work and tactics, but they peaked too early. And that was obvious. Patriot peaked in the ACWS, and got passed literally and metaphorically by the other teams. In the "American Magics defining moment" video Ken Read said exactly that. He said the same thing immediately after AM exited the series. Terry Hutchinson was AM's leader and their biggest flaw.

Depends how good a salesman Dalton is. Its no secret many European nations are looking to bounce back from the effects of Covid. If Dalton can sell the event to potential governments and/ or sponsors and investors, they might just see the event, as a potential opportunity to achieve that.

Just because NZ wasn't prepared to host, doesn't mean no one else is.

 

So are you saying it had nothing to do with a lack of funds, they just peaked to early? That this is a failure? Yet T(NZ) did the same thing in SF and came back to win. Funny how this was a good thing, yet AM doing it means they are useless.

As for Kenny, maybe he would have been happy if AM had a pretty wife for him to talk to...

And NZ was willing to host, just not willing to fund the team at the same time. Maybe Emirates should have stood aside, seeing as they have no money, and the government could have been offered naming rights. 

[Forourselves 1,694]

15 minutes ago, Gissie said:

So are you saying it had nothing to do with a lack of funds, they just peaked to early? That this is a failure? Yet T(NZ) did the same thing in SF and came back to win. Funny how this was a good thing, yet AM doing it means they are useless.

As for Kenny, maybe he would have been happy if AM had a pretty wife for him to talk to...

And NZ was willing to host, just not willing to fund the team at the same time. Maybe Emirates should have stood aside, seeing as they have no money, and the government could have been offered naming rights. 

I'm saying Team NZ failed to win the Cup in San Francisco because of the same reasons American Magic did in Auckland.

The difference is Team NZ learned the lessons of San Francisco where American Magic failed to, which is ironic since Dean Barker was again skipper. If there was one man who should've learned that lesson, it should've been Dean.

Dalton made the mistake in San Francisco and learned from it, and won in Bermuda and Auckland. 

As for hosting in Auckland, they (the Government) put their final offer on the table which obviously wasn't sufficient for the team to have confidence to be able to defend successfully. 

Surely that's fair enough, as only Dalton and the team knows what it takes to win the Cup, as they'd just won it twice back to back. For anyone else to think they're qualified to make that decision is laughable.

Both parties negotiated in good faith, and Dalton is now negotiating a new deal offshore.

Thats what happens in negotiation.

 

 

[Gissie 1,765]

1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

I'm saying Team NZ failed to win the Cup in San Francisco because of the same reasons American Magic did in Auckland.

The difference is Team NZ learned the lessons of San Francisco where American Magic failed to, which is ironic since Dean Barker was again skipper. If there was one man who should've learned that lesson, it should've been Dean.

Dalton made the mistake in San Francisco and learned from it, and won in Bermuda and Auckland. 

As for hosting in Auckland, they (the Government) put their final offer on the table which obviously wasn't sufficient for the team to have confidence to be able to defend successfully. 

Surely that's fair enough, as only Dalton and the team knows what it takes to win the Cup, as they'd just won it twice back to back. For anyone else to think they're qualified to make that decision is laughable.

Both parties negotiated in good faith, and Dalton is now negotiating a new deal offshore.

Thats what happens in negotiation.

 

 

So the team lost in SF and learnt their lesson afterwards,coming back strong the next event.

AM lost, perhaps by being overcooked in the same way, and have not learnt the lesson. Even though they are yet to compete for the second time. In fact they don't even have any idea where they will be going too.

A good thing you didn't have the same judgement against Dalton, he would have had to resign.

Hosting wise, you claimed NZ wasn't prepared to host. They were, they were just not willing to fund both the event and the team. There had always been a difference between the two. The team raised its own funds to do with what they wanted. This time the game changed - fund both the event and the team or we are off. So why is Emirates still on the nameplate? Where is their money? Why have they not been kicked to the kerb for not coming up with the dosh?

This is going to be the real story looking back. How or why does a pro team keep the main sponsors name without any funds. Then to turn its back on the country that supported it for years for not enough funds to cover the cashless major sponsor.

Please come up with some new excuses. Interesting to see the twist you can come up with, sad, but interesting.

[Forourselves 1,694]

3 minutes ago, Gissie said:

So the team lost in SF and learnt their lesson afterwards,coming back strong the next event.

AM lost, perhaps by being overcooked in the same way, and have not learnt the lesson. Even though they are yet to compete for the second time. In fact they don't even have any idea where they will be going too.

A good thing you didn't have the same judgement against Dalton, he would have had to resign.

Hosting wise, you claimed NZ wasn't prepared to host. They were, they were just not willing to fund both the event and the team. There had always been a difference between the two. The team raised its own funds to do with what they wanted. This time the game changed - fund both the event and the team or we are off. So why is Emirates still on the nameplate? Where is their money? Why have they not been kicked to the kerb for not coming up with the dosh?

This is going to be the real story looking back. How or why does a pro team keep the main sponsors name without any funds. Then to turn its back on the country that supported it for years for not enough funds to cover the cashless major sponsor.

Please come up with some new excuses. Interesting to see the twist you can come up with, sad, but interesting.

"AM lost, perhaps by being overcooked in the same way, and have not learnt the lesson. Even though they are yet to compete for the second time. In fact they don't even have any idea where they will be going too"

Thats an excuse. Dean Barker knew exactly what happened in San Francisco, why it happened, he went through a thorough review afterward, which identified problem areas of the campaign and how best to rectify them. 

Yet he either didn't divulge that information, or just thought it wouldn't happen again. Neither Dean or TH are first time Americas Cup competitors. They know (Dean especially) what it takes to win, and more importantly what its like to not only lose, but to go out racing in a boat that is not up to the job asked of it.

The Government contribution in AC36 did the same thing. Contribution to ACE, which ran the event and sponsored the team. Not sure why this is an issue? Even Grant Robertson publicly stated the Government were a sponsor of the team.

As for this time, the team obviously put forward their proposal, and the Government put forward theirs, after negotiation in good faith, the parties agreed that the Government proposal while reasonable given the current Covid situation, wasn't satisfactory to the teams needs, and Dalton was free to negotiate with offshore venues. Again, thats how negotiations work.

As for Emirates, who knows, they may come back on board, they may not. You're making assumptions based on speculation - again.

[Gissie 1,765]

14 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

"AM lost, perhaps by being overcooked in the same way, and have not learnt the lesson. Even though they are yet to compete for the second time. In fact they don't even have any idea where they will be going too"

Thats an excuse. Dean Barker knew exactly what happened in San Francisco, why it happened, he went through a thorough review afterward, which identified problem areas of the campaign and how best to rectify them. 

Yet he either didn't divulge that information, or just thought it wouldn't happen again. Neither Dean or TH are first time Americas Cup competitors. They know (Dean especially) what it takes to win, and more importantly what its like to not only lose, but to go out racing in a boat that is not up to the job asked of it.

The Government contribution in AC36 did the same thing. Contribution to ACE, which ran the event and sponsored the team. Not sure why this is an issue? Even Grant Robertson publicly stated the Government were a sponsor of the team.

As for this time, the team obviously put forward their proposal, and the Government put forward theirs, after negotiation in good faith, the parties agreed that the Government proposal while reasonable given the current Covid situation, wasn't satisfactory to the teams needs, and Dalton was free to negotiate with offshore venues. Again, thats how negotiations work.

As for Emirates, who knows, they may come back on board, they may not. You're making assumptions based on speculation - again.

Oh, it was all Dean's fault.

And the government always funded the team. So what the fuck was Emirates doing all these years?

As for negotiations, not looking too good at the moment.

I make assumptions? You make far more than I do.  Unless you are a sock for Lord Dalts. That would make more sense than most of your ramblings.

[Forourselves 1,694]

26 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Oh, it was all Dean's fault.

And the government always funded the team. So what the fuck was Emirates doing all these years?

As for negotiations, not looking too good at the moment.

I make assumptions? You make far more than I do.  Unless you are a sock for Lord Dalts. That would make more sense than most of your ramblings.

Dean should never have helmed that boat. The only reason he did was because he'd sailed displacement yachts with Terry Hutchinson.

TH was the problem with American Magic. Sometimes a great sailor doesn't always make a great leader.

Emirates is a sponsor, like Toyota and Omega.

You have no idea how negotiations are "looking"

There WILL be a venue, and there WILL be a defence.

Thats all that matters, oh and WINNING.

[Gissie 1,765]

38 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Dean should never have helmed that boat. The only reason he did was because he'd sailed displacement yachts with Terry Hutchinson.

TH was the problem with American Magic. Sometimes a great sailor doesn't always make a great leader.

Emirates is a sponsor, like Toyota and Omega.

You have no idea how negotiations are "looking"

There WILL be a venue, and there WILL be a defence.

Thats all that matters, oh and WINNING.

Didn't you say the problem was a lack of money? Now it's all TH's fault? Shit man, you need to at least keep your story the same for an hour. Otherwise you give the appearance of someone grasping at straws.

Much like the team looking for a venue...