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The AC 37 has started, news and rumours


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54 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Searching for any AC news in the last 24 hours, I found this

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/americas-cup-tights-black-12-in-2021--197595502394973188/

Now, what connection does this have to the AC, and is it worthy of a decent  (or better still indecent) rumour?

Good to have a current AC subject with legs.. 

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7 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

@Pizza on FireI note that beyond pointing that a woman has survived wearing trousers and competing in a WWE event neither of you or the other apologists have addressed the fact that KSA is near the bottom of the human rights ranking tables.

So please refrain from suggesting that anyone opposed to KSA as a venue is a racist against arabs. Which is particularly ironic given the endemic racism in KSA against foreign workers - especially those from SE Asia.

It is worth pointing out that whilst F1 and WWE and other sports are holding events there, many fans of those sports have expressed their displeasure. And just because someone else sells out their morals, it doesn't mean we should.

I agree that KSA may well be the only country to stump up the money GD wants. If so, then frankly tough shit. The normal cliche is "if you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen". In this case I would add "or design a cooler kitchen".

You means these "human rights"?

https://reprieve.org/uk/2021/10/22/ahmed-rabbani-cleared-for-release-from-guantanamo/

In 2002, Ahmed was falsely identified as wanted man Hassan Ghul and sold to US personnel in Pakistan. Although they soon realised they had the wrong man, they took him to Afghanistan and tortured him in black sites for 545 days. The abuse he was subjected to is documented in the US Senate torture report.

He has been detained without charge or trial by the US for 19 years, the last 17 of them at Guantánamo. He has never met his son, Jawad, who was born after he was taken into US custody.

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7 hours ago, Gissie said:

 A pro team, that is pissed the NZ Government won't give them hundreds of millions in cash, gives a flying fuck about NZ trading partners.

You certainly have slightly less than bugger all.

But keep it up, we all need a laugh these days.

A bunch of hypocrites on here that pretend to give a fuck about SA's political shortcomings while ignoring those of other countries.

The US, China, Japan, Russia, they all have their own track record of human rights abuses and discrimination, yet thats perfectly fine. Lets wave the star spangled banner while we ignore the racism and discrimination that blacks and LGBTQI people face on a daily basis.

You don't give a fuck about SA's human rights abuses.

Its just an excuse being used, the only one left to shit on the current venue selection process.

Where was the hate for Valencia in 2007? Where was the hate for Bermuda in 2017? Hypocrites.

At least there's only a week and a half left of this bullshit.

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28 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

A bunch of hypocrites on here that pretend to give a fuck about SA's political shortcomings while ignoring those of other countries.

The US, China, Japan, Russia, they all have their own track record of human rights abuses and discrimination, yet thats perfectly fine. Lets wave the star spangled banner while we ignore the racism and discrimination that blacks and LGBTQI people face on a daily basis.

You don't give a fuck about SA's human rights abuses.

Its just an excuse being used, the only one left to shit on the current venue selection process.

Where was the hate for Valencia in 2007? Where was the hate for Bermuda in 2017? Hypocrites.

At least there's only a week and a half left of this bullshit.

While not perfect the US is a country at least now governed by the rule of law. Democratically voted on by its citizens. The western democracies including your own are just objectively better. You can't honestly compare that to SA. And Japan? Have you been there? What human rights abuses have they committed? China and Russia are garbage in the same way SA is. How is it hypocritical to criticize the kiwi's sending the cup to SA when US, China, Japan and Russia aren't in the running to bail GD out?

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27 minutes ago, floater said:

how many tourists are going to happily travel to SA to watch a yacht race - how many of us?

Actually I doubt many of us would travel anywhere outside our own regions to watch the AC. I don't recall many travelling from far away to SF or BER. It's really best watched streaming onto a big screen anyway. I'd go to Cork. Maybe Valencia. Certainly ain't schlepping all the way to AUK.

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8 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Actually I doubt many of us would travel anywhere outside our own regions to watch the AC. I don't recall many travelling from far away to SF or BER. It's really best watched streaming onto a big screen anyway. I'd go to Cork. Maybe Valencia. Certainly ain't schlepping all the way to AUK.

I went to Valencia last time it was there. Great atmosphere and everything. Not sure I’d have gone if it wasn’t for a mate’s stag do.

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

You don't give a fuck about SA's human rights abuses.

Finally you got something correct. How each country behaves is up to them in my book. To many problems are started by others thinking they know best and try to force change.

Of course I have the choice to ignore any such country and their people.

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12 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Forhimself must be so pleased NZ throughout its entire history has had a spotless human rights record. 

 

We don’t. Infact it’s fucking appalling in a lot of ways. But no one else seems to care about it, so why should I? Apparently the very same people on here who complain about SA, think NZ is a “perfectly good venue” even given its Human rights record. The crown wiped out an entire village of peaceful protesters who sat in silence as well singing songs as they were wiped out by the English colonisers. Remember Parihaka.

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

Actually I doubt many of us would travel anywhere outside our own regions to watch the AC. I don't recall many travelling from far away to SF or BER. It's really best watched streaming onto a big screen anyway. I'd go to Cork. Maybe Valencia. Certainly ain't schlepping all the way to AUK.

plenty of pleasant Kiwi's visited SF last time around - or rather, a time or two ago lol. I wouldn't mind returning the favor.

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18 minutes ago, floater said:

plenty of pleasant Kiwi's visited SF last time around - or rather, a time or two ago lol. I wouldn't mind returning the favor.

I took "many of us" to refer to SAAC. I don't recall many stories here from Kiwis in SF or many direct accounts of BER at all - I think just one person was giving first hand reports. 

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That’s what’s such BS about this entire charade regarding Saudi Arabia’s human rights record.

why aren’t you also moaning about the US and it’s track record? They invaded another country, making millions upon millions of people refugees, homeless, starving. Men, women and children, based on a lie about weapons of mass destruction. Their justice system continues to racially profile and discriminate, often fatally, against its African American citizens.
NZ is apparently a “perfectly good venue” even though it has, and continues to oppress the rights of its indigenous people.

And yet here we are, with posters on here right now who say things like “we are just better than them”.

In what way? According to who? How are we better than anyone else? 
 

 

 

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What sort of shit defence is this? Please your honour, dont throw me in prison for being a serial killer, because some of the jury have broken the speed limit.

Yes the USA has issues, prime being the institutional racism still prevalent in many quarters. But it is still in the top 25% by the independent observers 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-index-by-country 

Whereas KSA is 13th from bottom. And I know I haven't complained about Syria on here. But if GD tries flogging the AC to them I will

 

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11 hours ago, Pizza on Fire said:

Actually, the transition to greener energy is a boost for oil producers, short to medium term. There is fewer money going into capex, fewer new oil cells and with consumption still rising, albeit very slowly, demand outstrips offer. Europe will have a tough winter if it gets very cold and Putin will be laughing on his way to the bank to cash his euros... 

This pattern will probably hold for another 10 years, so for all of you that stand on the moral high ground, I'm sorry but there will be substantial Gulf money for sports until at 2030. Crunch time for them will probably come around 2040 but that's still a few Cup cycles away. 

KSA isn't paying me anything, it's the hypocrisy that bothers me. Let's stick to sailing in this forum.

The bottom line is that Grant Dalton needs 100 million US dollars to fund his team and is asking foreign governments to pay for it. Good for him if he can pull this off, I wish him all the success. TNZ is a great team and all I care about is sailing spectacle, so the more and stronger teams the better, but, realistically, only Gulf monarchies have that amount of cash to gift him right now, given the small ROI this travelling circus will provide. (Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan could be nice alternatives but it's a pity the Deed of Gift doesn't allow the Match to take place in the Caspian Sea ;). Baku would be a great venue!) 

Having said that, Cork or Valencia would be nice as well, they have direct flights from Amsterdam. Cheers!!

So the AKL offer is just 1 mil short? What a sad state ETNZ is in :(

 

3 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Actually I doubt many of us would travel anywhere outside our own regions to watch the AC. I don't recall many travelling from far away to SF or BER. It's really best watched streaming onto a big screen anyway. I'd go to Cork. Maybe Valencia. Certainly ain't schlepping all the way to AUK.

AKL would be a destination I would travel to. If Corona hadn't screwed up everything this year, I would have been there for AC36 already.
I would never go to KSA as long as it has the current or a similar regime.

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49 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

What sort of shit defence is this? Please your honour, dont throw me in prison for being a serial killer, because some of the jury have broken the speed limit.

Yes the USA has issues, prime being the institutional racism still prevalent in many quarters. But it is still in the top 25% by the independent observers 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-index-by-country 

Whereas KSA is 13th from bottom. And I know I haven't complained about Syria on here. But if GD tries flogging the AC to them I will

 

Hong Kong is 3rd of most free countries!? Try telling them that!

North Korea isn’t even top 10!?

really?

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Hong Kong is 3rd of most free countries!? Try telling them that!

North Korea isn’t even top 10!?

really?

If you'll notice, N Korea is so closed that there is no data, so it can't be ranked.

Those rankings are from 2019. A lot has changed in Hong Kong in the last two years.

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23 minutes ago, accnick said:

If you'll notice, N Korea is so closed that there is no data, so it can't be ranked.

Those rankings are from 2019. A lot has changed in Hong Kong in the last two years.

Exactly. No one is saying Saudi Arabia is perfect, but they at least outwardly, appear to also be prepared to change, albeit slowly. So let’s not use old, inaccurate and largely irrelevant data to prove a point.

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3 hours ago, pusslicker said:

Maybe travel and live outside of your island paradise and it will become quite clear.

Again, How are you better? Who measures how much better you are than anyone in Saudi Arabia? How do you measure it? In what way are you better than a Saudi citizen? 

Only in your own narcissistic little mind are you better than anyone else. 

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3 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

So the AKL offer is just 1 mil short? What a sad state ETNZ is in :(

It's more than that plus I'm not sure those looking in from the outside realise the political situation in NZ is extremely volatile.

The rest of the world is at least a year ahead of us.  The current Government in NZ has an agenda that is destabilising.

Only this past week did one of our Rich Lister's take on MBIE in Court over their Covid management.  MBIE lost and have backed down.  There is an overlap in the MBIE personnel involved in that case and the AC.

Any business that involves overseas engagement or interaction to succeed is facing increasing uncertainty if operating in NZ.  Strategically any smart operator would take that out of the equation.  That's what Dalts will be doing.

 

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36 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Exactly. No one is saying Saudi Arabia is perfect, but they at least outwardly, appear to also be prepared to change, albeit slowly. So let’s not use old, inaccurate and largely irrelevant data to prove a point.

You are a disgraceful human being who will spin anything to being positive if it is in the cause of justifying what TNZ is doing.

To try to justify Saudi Arabia's human rights record by saying they appear to be prepared to change ...slowly is nothing short of blind stupidity. Let's be clear on what is common place in KSA

  • Torture is an approved form of judicial punishment
  • Amputation is a commonly used judicial punishment
  • No free speech (those who voice any opposition are imprisoned without trial)
  • State sponsored assassination of critics
  • 3rd highest number of executions in the world, many without proper trial or with confessions gained by torture.
  • regular use of torture in police interrogation
  • Women highly discriminated against
  • Very high level of religious discrimination

And that's just for starters.

Any comments that suggest they might change need to be considered with a high level of scepticism.  Their statements pander to whatever will suit them best but then they do whatever they want. An example of this is that while they had the presidency of the G20, they significantly reduced the number of executions but as soon as the presidency was over, the number ramped up again.

There is no excuse for holding the America's Cup in KSA and the moral compass of anybody involved with either considering it or justifying it is badly off course.

 

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

The rest of the world is at least a year ahead of us. 

I'm not so sure this is a race worth winning... our economy has done much better so far, and the early vaccine adoptors are dealing with some new challenges.

Last December, the United Kingdom became the first country to administer COVID-19 vaccines. That first-mover advantage is looking more like a liability right now as the effectiveness of that initial batch of doses appears to wear down, and cases spike again.

...

Israel, another early vaccine-mover, started to offer booster shots to people over 60 from July 1, as the number of cases started to increase across the country. Case numbers there then subsided, and a larger public health crisis was averted, further indication that boosters will be an important line of defense for the world's biggest economies this winter. As Berenberg economist Holger Schmieding said in a recent investor note, “The vaccine protection becomes less effective over time, and booster jabs can make a decisive difference.”

https://fortune.com/2021/10/22/covid-vaccines-effectiveness-uk-britain-boosters-mask-mandates-passports/

I'm not suggesting NZ's vaccine lateness was entirely strategic, but it may prove to be a blessing in disguise, enabled by our suppression efforts.

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1 hour ago, SimonN said:

You are a disgraceful human being who will spin anything to being positive if it is in the cause of justifying what TNZ is doing.

To try to justify Saudi Arabia's human rights record by saying they appear to be prepared to change ...slowly is nothing short of blind stupidity. Let's be clear on what is common place in KSA

  • Torture is an approved form of judicial punishment
  • Amputation is a commonly used judicial punishment
  • No free speech (those who voice any opposition are imprisoned without trial)
  • State sponsored assassination of critics
  • 3rd highest number of executions in the world, many without proper trial or with confessions gained by torture.
  • regular use of torture in police interrogation
  • Women highly discriminated against
  • Very high level of religious discrimination

And that's just for starters.

Any comments that suggest they might change need to be considered with a high level of scepticism.  Their statements pander to whatever will suit them best but then they do whatever they want. An example of this is that while they had the presidency of the G20, they significantly reduced the number of executions but as soon as the presidency was over, the number ramped up again.

There is no excuse for holding the America's Cup in KSA and the moral compass of anybody involved with either considering it or justifying it is badly off course.

 

Yet they are allies of Western Governments and nations.

None of which has anything to do with the Americas Cup.

The US tortures people, they just do it in secret. They amputate as a form of torture, they just do it in secret.

How do you think they obtain "intelligence" you think people just sit and watch screens all day and night? No, they capture, they torture, and they push people to the limit of what the body can handle, often past that limit until they talk. They forgo human rights and international law in the name of "the war on terrorism",

The US, invades sovereign nations, leaves millions homeless as refugees, occupies for decades, destroys entire cities and towns, withdraws and leaves other countries to clean up the mess.

The US bombs civilians indiscriminately, kills innocent women and children and just says "sorry folks, no hard feelings" when they get it wrong.

The US discriminates against blacks and LGBTQI people.

Free speech? Free speech is the reason for the amount of mis information spread on the internet that the world is currently trying to combat.

We are conditioned to hate all Saudi's, we are told they are barbaric, that they're all terrorists hell bent on killing westerners.

Again, none of this has anything what so ever to do with the AC.

If you have a problem, don't buy gas, don't put oil in your car, don't fly on a plane, and don't buy anything that has anything to do with chemicals the Saudis produce and/ or export, because if you do, you're a hypocrite.

Many sports events are held in the Kingdom, sailing is no different to any other sport, so get the hell off your high horse and put your money where your mouth is or STFU.

 

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4 hours ago, rh3000 said:

I'm not so sure this is a race worth winning... our economy has done much better so far, and the early vaccine adoptors are dealing with some new challenges.

Last December, the United Kingdom became the first country to administer COVID-19 vaccines. That first-mover advantage is looking more like a liability right now as the effectiveness of that initial batch of doses appears to wear down, and cases spike again.

...

Israel, another early vaccine-mover, started to offer booster shots to people over 60 from July 1, as the number of cases started to increase across the country. Case numbers there then subsided, and a larger public health crisis was averted, further indication that boosters will be an important line of defense for the world's biggest economies this winter. As Berenberg economist Holger Schmieding said in a recent investor note, “The vaccine protection becomes less effective over time, and booster jabs can make a decisive difference.”

https://fortune.com/2021/10/22/covid-vaccines-effectiveness-uk-britain-boosters-mask-mandates-passports/

I'm not suggesting NZ's vaccine lateness was entirely strategic, but it may prove to be a blessing in disguise, enabled by our suppression efforts.

Umm...if using the current vaccines, which NZ is, will need boosters.  Just not now. Later. 

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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Yet they are allies of Western Governments and nations.

None of which has anything to do with the Americas Cup.

The US tortures people, they just do it in secret. They amputate as a form of torture, they just do it in secret.

How do you think they obtain "intelligence" you think people just sit and watch screens all day and night? No, they capture, they torture, and they push people to the limit of what the body can handle, often past that limit until they talk. They forgo human rights and international law in the name of "the war on terrorism",

The US, invades sovereign nations, leaves millions homeless as refugees, occupies for decades, destroys entire cities and towns, withdraws and leaves other countries to clean up the mess.

The US bombs civilians indiscriminately, kills innocent women and children and just says "sorry folks, no hard feelings" when they get it wrong.

The US discriminates against blacks and LGBTQI people.

Free speech? Free speech is the reason for the amount of mis information spread on the internet that the world is currently trying to combat.

We are conditioned to hate all Saudi's, we are told they are barbaric, that they're all terrorists hell bent on killing westerners.

Again, none of this has anything what so ever to do with the AC.

If you have a problem, don't buy gas, don't put oil in your car, don't fly on a plane, and don't buy anything that has anything to do with chemicals the Saudis produce and/ or export, because if you do, you're a hypocrite.

Many sports events are held in the Kingdom, sailing is no different to any other sport, so get the hell off your high horse and put your money where your mouth is or STFU.

 

Like many people in business and sport, I do choose to boycott KSA, but you seem unable to understand that there is a huge difference between me doing all I can to avoid it but maybe occasionally using a KSA product and holding a major high profile sports event in the country. Look at articles like this

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/28/saudi-arabia-has-spent-at-least-15bn-on-sportswashing-report-reveals

KSA use sport as an attempt to enhance their reputation to cover up the human rights abuses that go on every single day against so many of their citizens. If you think they want to hold the AC because they love sailing or because they think it will make KSA a tourist destination, you are beyond stupid.

And if you really want to draw similarities between the behaviour of, say, the USA with KSA, you are beyond hope. Yes, the USA has issues but they are on a completely different scale to what goes on in KSA. 

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

Umm...if using the current vaccines, which NZ is, will need boosters.  Just not now. Later. 

At what stage are boosters needed? We are still evaluating if they work, yet our first vaccinated are hitting six months on their second shot.

Still we do give free gifts, like KFC, to the laggards.

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6 hours ago, SimonN said:

You are a disgraceful human being who will spin anything to being positive if it is in the cause of justifying what TNZ is doing.

To try to justify Saudi Arabia's human rights record by saying they appear to be prepared to change ...slowly is nothing short of blind stupidity. Let's be clear on what is common place in KSA

  • Torture is an approved form of judicial punishment
  • Amputation is a commonly used judicial punishment
  • No free speech (those who voice any opposition are imprisoned without trial)
  • State sponsored assassination of critics
  • 3rd highest number of executions in the world, many without proper trial or with confessions gained by torture.
  • regular use of torture in police interrogation
  • Women highly discriminated against
  • Very high level of religious discrimination

And that's just for starters.

Any comments that suggest they might change need to be considered with a high level of scepticism.  Their statements pander to whatever will suit them best but then they do whatever they want. An example of this is that while they had the presidency of the G20, they significantly reduced the number of executions but as soon as the presidency was over, the number ramped up again.

There is no excuse for holding the America's Cup in KSA and the moral compass of anybody involved with either considering it or justifying it is badly off course.

 

Many on your list above could also describe PRC.

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22 minutes ago, SimonN said:

Like many people in business and sport, I do choose to boycott KSA, but you seem unable to understand that there is a huge difference between me doing all I can to avoid it but maybe occasionally using a KSA product and holding a major high profile sports event in the country. Look at articles like this

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/28/saudi-arabia-has-spent-at-least-15bn-on-sportswashing-report-reveals

KSA use sport as an attempt to enhance their reputation to cover up the human rights abuses that go on every single day against so many of their citizens. If you think they want to hold the AC because they love sailing or because they think it will make KSA a tourist destination, you are beyond stupid.

And if you really want to draw similarities between the behaviour of, say, the USA with KSA, you are beyond hope. Yes, the USA has issues but they are on a completely different scale to what goes on in KSA. 

Blah blah, you have no leg to stand on. You'll happily use products funded by, and produced in Saudi Arabia while boycotting them on moral grounds.

You're a hypocrite, plain and simple. That's all there is to it.

Every nation that hosts a sports event, does so to advertise their country to the world. Its all sports washing, whether it be the US, China, Japan or Saudi Arabia. 

They only show the world what they want the world to see. 

If they're prepared to fund sporting events that otherwise wouldn't happen, why not? 

Its not up to sports teams to resolve the worlds political issues. Thats what Governments are for.

Doesn't look that bad right?

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, SimonN said:

Like many people in business and sport, I do choose to boycott KSA

I see. So when you fill up your car, you ensure none of the fuel originated there?

 

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Who to believe. A couple of apologists for KSA (at least one of whom has a clearly biased agenda), posting fluff pieces sponsored by KSA or

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/issues/saudi-arabia?utm_source=google&utm_medium=grant&utm_campaign=AWA_REG_GEN_saudi&utm_content=amnesty international saudi arabia

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2021/country-chapters/saudi-arabia

Or pretty much every other independent human rights organisation

Another really tricky one

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19 hours ago, pusslicker said:

While not perfect the US is a country at least now governed by the rule of law. Democratically voted on by its citizens. The western democracies including your own are just objectively better. You can't honestly compare that to SA. And Japan? Have you been there? What human rights abuses have they committed? China and Russia are garbage in the same way SA is. How is it hypocritical to criticize the kiwi's sending the cup to SA when US, China, Japan and Russia aren't in the running to bail GD out?

what does Sailing Anarchy go to do with this?

oh if you meant KSA, there's 650 million reasons why they are not that bad it seems.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-state-dept-okays-650-million-potential-air-to-air-missile-deal-saudi-arabia-2021-11-04/

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13 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

It's more than that plus I'm not sure those looking in from the outside realise the political situation in NZ is extremely volatile.

The rest of the world is at least a year ahead of us.  The current Government in NZ has an agenda that is destabilising.

Only this past week did one of our Rich Lister's take on MBIE in Court over their Covid management.  MBIE lost and have backed down.  There is an overlap in the MBIE personnel involved in that case and the AC.

Any business that involves overseas engagement or interaction to succeed is facing increasing uncertainty if operating in NZ.  Strategically any smart operator would take that out of the equation.  That's what Dalts will be doing.

 

There are court cases due to Corona measures on a weekly or monthly basis in Germany. So how is NZ different?

Solely governments that don't give a damn about their citizens will make one and only one mistake regarding C19: do nothing. We all can be glad to live in countries where going to court against government agencies is allowed at all.

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5 hours ago, Gissie said:

At what stage are boosters needed? We are still evaluating if they work, yet our first vaccinated are hitting six months on their second shot.

Still we do give free gifts, like KFC, to the laggards.

US is booster enthusiastic. They say 6 months from 2nd shot.  

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/booster-shot.html

Evaluating if they work for WHAT?  Preventing deaths and hospitalizations? Duh yes. Google for stats.  State data are compelling.  Surely your government can google.

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7 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Umm...if using the current vaccines, which NZ is, will need boosters.  Just not now. Later. 

Agreed, but we won't have to have lost anywhere near as many lives to have discovered this.

Btw, its possible a booster will be needed ongoing, not just one 6 monther.

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24 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Agreed, but we won't have to have lost anywhere near as many lives to have discovered this.

Btw, its possible a booster will be needed ongoing, not just one 6 monther.

Right. Others sadly did the heavy lifting.  

So what wrt ongoing boosters? I expect they will be ongoing. It's not a failure when (delta in US) it cuts getting infected by 6x-10x. Over 90% of hospitalized or dead here were unvaxxinated.  If you don't like those odds, well, good luck with that.

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13 hours ago, SimonN said:

There is no excuse for holding the America's Cup in KSA and the moral compass of anybody involved with either considering it or justifying it is badly off course.

gives me some extra respect for Tuke and Burling - and the line they drew in the sand for GD.

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3 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Have we considered containing our outrage until we actually know there will be an event in Jeddah?

Two reasons why not

1) Because if protest is to make any difference then it must be before the decision is set in stone. And whilst GD may not read here, certain media types certainly do, and they can reflect that anger in their pieces (and indeed some have done).

2) Because there is bugger all else to talk about now

 

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16 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

1) Because if protest is to make any difference then it must be before the decision is set in stone. And whilst GD may not read here, certain media types certainly do, and they can reflect that anger in their pieces (and indeed some have done).

He wouldn't give a flying fuck.

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28 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

He wouldn't give a flying fuck.

He should. Because sponsor will

Emirates may or may not, but I'm bloody sure some or all of Omega; Toyota; Spark; Genesis; Steinlager; HP; SkyCity; TVNZ; MacDonalds; TheMarket.com & McKinsey will

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3 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

I see, you studied at the University of YouTube. That says it all actually, no reason to argue further.

No, but maybe time to change the narrative as opposed to believing the media narrative.

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

Two reasons why not

1) Because if protest is to make any difference then it must be before the decision is set in stone. And whilst GD may not read here, certain media types certainly do, and they can reflect that anger in their pieces (and indeed some have done).

2) Because there is bugger all else to talk about now

 

So you're going to protest something you heard might happen? 

You'd look pretty silly if it didn't.

2 is the real reason.

 

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44 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

He should. Because sponsor will

Emirates may or may not, but I'm bloody sure some or all of Omega; Toyota; Spark; Genesis; Steinlager; HP; SkyCity; TVNZ; MacDonalds; TheMarket.com & McKinsey will

Sponsors only want return on investment.

They don't care about anything else.

 

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6 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Sponsors only want return on investment.

They don't care about anything else.

 

Not wading into the argument re: KSA but the above isn’t true. How many times have we seen sponsors withdraw when something unpleasant comes out? For example only this week Nike have pulled out of sponsoring Yorkshire Cricket Club over the recent furore about racism, and countless other examples.

Not the same as pulling out over a venue but they certainly do care about how they are perceived.

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1 hour ago, floater said:

so, he doesn't give a shit whether he has Burling or not?

Try to pay attention. That wasn't the question under consideration. We were discussing whether the endless wittering about Jeddah on SA is keeping GD awake at night. We may safely assume that GD can ask PB's opinion without recourse to SA for an answer.

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1 hour ago, The Main Man said:

Not wading into the argument re: KSA but the above isn’t true. How many times have we seen sponsors withdraw when something unpleasant comes out? For example only this week Nike have pulled out of sponsoring Yorkshire Cricket Club over the recent furore about racism, and countless other examples.

Not the same as pulling out over a venue but they certainly do care about how they are perceived.

Well true. If it affects them directly.

But pulling out over a venue seems a stretch, especially given a lot of other sports are held in Saudi Arabia or the middle east.

There are already a lot of Western businesses operating in the Kingdom, such as McDonalds, Starbucks etc.

 

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4 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Right. Others sadly did the heavy lifting.  

So what wrt ongoing boosters? I expect they will be ongoing. It's not a failure when (delta in US) it cuts getting infected by 6x-10x. Over 90% of hospitalized or dead here were unvaxxinated.  If you don't like those odds, well, good luck with that.

I'm not complaining about ongoing boosters, just noting the emerging discovery appears to be covid will be here forever and require pretty regular vaccination like we never seen before.

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5 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Evaluating if they work for WHAT?  Preventing deaths and hospitalizations? Duh yes. Google for stats.  State data are compelling.  Surely your government can google.

Evaluating if they will work on us down here. One of the reasons we were slow with vaccinating was the time it took for our medsafe to look into how safe it is. They are still looking at whether booster shots are any good and what ones might work.

As for being able to use Google, they can, but only to look up kitten videos.

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12 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

I'm not complaining about ongoing boosters, just noting the emerging discovery appears to be covid will be here forever and require pretty regular vaccination like we never seen before.

So all those millions of people that get flu shots each year are imaginary?

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1 hour ago, rh3000 said:

I'm not complaining about ongoing boosters, just noting the emerging discovery appears to be covid will be here forever and require pretty regular vaccination like we never seen before.

Thats not a surprise, most countries give out flu vaccinations every year, and C19 is a related virus, it was so severe to start with because it was "novel" meaning we had no in built immune reaction to it. The hope is it becomes like any other corona/rhino virus and back to normal would mean only the vulnerable requires yearly vax.

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Or people get it like they get a flu shot.  Oh wait, people don't...too bad.  

It's not a shock about re-boosting in the US. Epidemiologists have speculated about that for quite some time. The good news is the current ones hold delta at bay pretty much. Fortunately mRNA tech means future variant specific ones or mixes are fairly straightforward. Hopefully not so many variants they have to do the flu strain guessing game.

  

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31 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Or people get it like they get a flu shot.  Oh wait, people don't...too bad.  

It's not a shock about re-boosting in the US. Epidemiologists have speculated about that for quite some time. The good news is the current ones hold delta at bay pretty much. Fortunately mRNA tech means future variant specific ones or mixes are fairly straightforward. Hopefully not so many variants they have to do the flu strain guessing game.

  

I seldom get flu shots but am dbl-vaxxed and have an appt for a booster next week. The amazing ease and effectiveness of mRNA has me stunned and I like to think some lasting good will materialize from the investment that the (yes, terrible) pandemic forced the US and other govts made to accelerate that technology. Some serious people are suggesting it could lead to vaccines against a wide variety of even more serious conditions. Praying.. 

edit: back today from 5 weeks in Italy; heard some stories while there about how horrific things were for a painfully long time, how scared people were, how tough it was enduring the prolonged lockdowns, and … how truly thankful most Italians are for the eventual vaccines, as if it is a miracle. Uptake % in that country is pretty impressive and the magic is making a vigorous comeback. 

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13 hours ago, dogwatch said:

I see. So when you fill up your car, you ensure none of the fuel originated there?

 

Under 15% of all fuel imports to Australia comes from the Middle East and almost none of it is diesel which my cars use. As I said I. My earlier post, there is a chance that unintentionally I occasionally buy a KSA product but in the scale of things, say compared with selling KSA a major sporting event so they can “sportswash” their reputation, it’s a drop in the ocean.

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The US produces so much damn oil these days it exports a lot of it and even with the recent uptick prices are relatively cheap here and my little Stingray is remarkably efficient but: My next car will for certain be an electric! That the power in my area is hydro, it’s the cleanest way to ride. 

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That paragon of freedom of expression that is Saudi Arabia as well as it’s neighbours Qatar and Kuwait has been so threatened by a kiss in a film that it’s just banned the latest marvel film… 

https://movieweb.com/eternals-banned-gulf-countries-angelina-jolie-responds/

Hey but everyone’s welcome…. :lol: 

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An Australian rugby fan, a South African rugby fan and a New Zealand rugby fan are all in Saudi Arabia, sharing a smuggled crate of booze...

...when Saudi police rush in and arrest them. 

The mere possession of alcohol is a severe offence in Saudi Arabia, so for consuming the booze they are all sentenced to death. However, after many months and with the help of good lawyers, they are able successfully to appeal their sentences down to life imprisonment. 

By a stroke of luck, it was a Saudi national holiday the day their trial finished, and the benevolent sheikh decided they could be released after receiving just 20 lashes.

As they were preparing for their punishment, the sheikh announced, "It's my first wife's birthday today, and she has asked me to allow each of you one wish before your whipping."

The South African was first. He thought for a while, then said, "Please tie a pillow to my back."

This was done, but the pillow lasted only 10 lashes before the whip went through. When the punishment was done, the South African had to be carried away bleeding and crying with pain.

The Australian was next up. After watching the South African's horror, he said smugly, "Please fix two pillows to my back." But even two pillows could take only 15 lashes before the whip went through and the Australian was soon led away whimpering loudly (as they do).

The New Zealander was the last one up, but before he could say anything, the sheikh turned to him and said, "You are from a most beautiful part of the world and your culture is one of the finest. For this, you may have two wishes!"

"Thank you, your most royal and merciful highness," the Kiwi replied. "In recognition of your kindness, my first wish is that you give me not 20 lashes but 100 lashes."

"Not only are you an honourable, handsome and powerful man, you are also very brave," the sheikh said with an admiring look on his face. "If 100 lashes is what you desire, then so be it. And your second wish"?

"Tie the Australian to my back."
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37 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

That paragon of freedom of expression that is Saudi Arabia as well as it’s neighbours Qatar and Kuwait has been so threatened by a kiss in a film that it’s just banned the latest marvel film… 

https://movieweb.com/eternals-banned-gulf-countries-angelina-jolie-responds/

Hey but everyone’s welcome…. :lol: 

Boo fucking hoo.

No one cares.

Hollywood has bigger problems right now, than a marvel movie banned in Saudi Arabia. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Xlot said:

So, basically, we’re still on square 1. And this just because Grant-fucking-Dalton painted himself into a corner ...

 

Who really cares, like really? A bunch of moaners on here holding a grudge against Dalton because they're too fucking impatient to wait until the process to play out?

Nope. Its yet another storm in a teacup. 

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35 minutes ago, Xlot said:

So, basically, we’re still on square 1. And this just because Grant-fucking-Dalton painted himself into a corner ...

 

The recent guest interview Dunphy gave to TE is a pretty interesting listen. There’s a chance the only corner GD has to back up and retreat to will be Auckland where, as Dunphy argued strongly for, has infrastructure, the biggest money, and the biggest and invested fan base. GD needs to start thinking about good messaging reasons for his ‘come to Jesus’ about-face when things do come home. The KHD effort is strong. 

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2 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

The recent guest interview Dunphy gave to TE is a pretty interesting listen. There’s a chance the only corner GD has to back up and retreat to will be Auckland where, as Dunphy argued strongly for, has infrastructure, the biggest money, and the biggest and invested fan base. GD needs to start thinking about good messaging reasons for his ‘come to Jesus’ about-face when things do come home. 

Dunphy was asked directly if he had the money, to which he replied "no"

 

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Ok, so iirc, GD blew off Auckland/NZ/whatever $$$ cuz it wasn't enough, started shopping the event around, lots of promising places but no cash in hand to offer GD, Daffy claims has funds to top off the whatever $$$ and wants to sue to keep event in NZ, nobody is coughing up cash in Europe so far but Daffy has "interest" but not cash in hand...Ocean Race said sailing  by btw cuz too weird in NZ now....GD is infallible so no worries. Except Hamhand PhD says Brits aren't valid CoR opening it to...somebody...but GD needs cash and Jacinda's favor.

Miss anything? 

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59 minutes ago, Xlot said:

So, basically, we’re still on square 1. And this just because Grant-fucking-Dalton painted himself into a corner ...

 

When do you finally stop taking everything to the bank that little freak Hamish Ross says! He is a FREAK!

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The Auckland Stopover being scrubbed from TOR Route for 2022/23 is PROOF that it is too risky to have a Major International Sporting Event with International Travellers in NZ for the time being until NZ gets rid of Ardern and her cohorts!

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20 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

The Auckland Stopover being scrubbed from TOR Route for 2022/23 is PROOF that it is too risky to have a Major International Sporting Event with International Travellers in NZ for the time being until NZ gets rid of Ardern and her cohorts!

You seem to have missed that China is in the same category. Must have to wait until they get rid of Xi and his cohorts before sailing can return.

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

The Auckland Stopover being scrubbed from TOR Route for 2022/23 is PROOF that it is too risky to have a Major International Sporting Event with International Travellers in NZ for the time being until NZ gets rid of Ardern and her cohorts!

It’s! A! Good! Thing! You! Use! The! Exclamation! Point! At! The! End! Of! Every! Sentence! So! We! Know! You! Have! Something! Exciting! To! Say!

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4 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

The US produces so much damn oil these days it exports a lot of it and even with the recent uptick prices are relatively cheap here and my little Stingray is remarkably efficient but: My next car will for certain be an electric! That the power in my area is hydro, it’s the cleanest way to ride. 

Ha. What happens when your area has a dry spell and the hydro storage lake is drying up? Can you buy-in 'green power' from a neighbouring area, or will 'less green' power be OK? Would you even know?

Might even have to burn filthy brown coal, like we do, but don't want to talk about it. ;-)

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

The KHD effort is strong. 

Well it might have been had there been any ACTUAL money put up and Dunphy was trustworthy. As far as I can tell, neither was present in his grandiose offer.

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6 hours ago, Gissie said:

So all those millions of people that get flu shots each year are imaginary?

This is not the flu

Flu vaccines don't require 2 shots within 8 weeks and a booster every 6 months from then on...

To say nothing of the implications of missing a flu shot vs missing a covid one...

If you can't tell the difference between that and this then I can't help you mate...

 

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