enigmatically2 1,483 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 What sort of shit defence is this? Please your honour, dont throw me in prison for being a serial killer, because some of the jury have broken the speed limit. Yes the USA has issues, prime being the institutional racism still prevalent in many quarters. But it is still in the top 25% by the independent observers https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-index-by-country Whereas KSA is 13th from bottom. And I know I haven't complained about Syria on here. But if GD tries flogging the AC to them I will 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rennmaus 3,064 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 11 hours ago, Pizza on Fire said: Actually, the transition to greener energy is a boost for oil producers, short to medium term. There is fewer money going into capex, fewer new oil cells and with consumption still rising, albeit very slowly, demand outstrips offer. Europe will have a tough winter if it gets very cold and Putin will be laughing on his way to the bank to cash his euros... This pattern will probably hold for another 10 years, so for all of you that stand on the moral high ground, I'm sorry but there will be substantial Gulf money for sports until at 2030. Crunch time for them will probably come around 2040 but that's still a few Cup cycles away. KSA isn't paying me anything, it's the hypocrisy that bothers me. Let's stick to sailing in this forum. The bottom line is that Grant Dalton needs 100 million US dollars to fund his team and is asking foreign governments to pay for it. Good for him if he can pull this off, I wish him all the success. TNZ is a great team and all I care about is sailing spectacle, so the more and stronger teams the better, but, realistically, only Gulf monarchies have that amount of cash to gift him right now, given the small ROI this travelling circus will provide. (Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan could be nice alternatives but it's a pity the Deed of Gift doesn't allow the Match to take place in the Caspian Sea . Baku would be a great venue!) Having said that, Cork or Valencia would be nice as well, they have direct flights from Amsterdam. Cheers!! So the AKL offer is just 1 mil short? What a sad state ETNZ is in . 3 hours ago, dogwatch said: Actually I doubt many of us would travel anywhere outside our own regions to watch the AC. I don't recall many travelling from far away to SF or BER. It's really best watched streaming onto a big screen anyway. I'd go to Cork. Maybe Valencia. Certainly ain't schlepping all the way to AUK. AKL would be a destination I would travel to. If Corona hadn't screwed up everything this year, I would have been there for AC36 already. I would never go to KSA as long as it has the current or a similar regime. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 1,694 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 49 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said: What sort of shit defence is this? Please your honour, dont throw me in prison for being a serial killer, because some of the jury have broken the speed limit. Yes the USA has issues, prime being the institutional racism still prevalent in many quarters. But it is still in the top 25% by the independent observers https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-index-by-country Whereas KSA is 13th from bottom. And I know I haven't complained about Syria on here. But if GD tries flogging the AC to them I will Hong Kong is 3rd of most free countries!? Try telling them that! North Korea isn’t even top 10!? really? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
accnick 1,753 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Forourselves said: Hong Kong is 3rd of most free countries!? Try telling them that! North Korea isn’t even top 10!? really? If you'll notice, N Korea is so closed that there is no data, so it can't be ranked. Those rankings are from 2019. A lot has changed in Hong Kong in the last two years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 1,694 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 23 minutes ago, accnick said: If you'll notice, N Korea is so closed that there is no data, so it can't be ranked. Those rankings are from 2019. A lot has changed in Hong Kong in the last two years. Exactly. No one is saying Saudi Arabia is perfect, but they at least outwardly, appear to also be prepared to change, albeit slowly. So let’s not use old, inaccurate and largely irrelevant data to prove a point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 1,694 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 3 hours ago, pusslicker said: Maybe travel and live outside of your island paradise and it will become quite clear. Again, How are you better? Who measures how much better you are than anyone in Saudi Arabia? How do you measure it? In what way are you better than a Saudi citizen? Only in your own narcissistic little mind are you better than anyone else. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kate short for Bob 438 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Rennmaus said: So the AKL offer is just 1 mil short? What a sad state ETNZ is in . It's more than that plus I'm not sure those looking in from the outside realise the political situation in NZ is extremely volatile. The rest of the world is at least a year ahead of us. The current Government in NZ has an agenda that is destabilising. Only this past week did one of our Rich Lister's take on MBIE in Court over their Covid management. MBIE lost and have backed down. There is an overlap in the MBIE personnel involved in that case and the AC. Any business that involves overseas engagement or interaction to succeed is facing increasing uncertainty if operating in NZ. Strategically any smart operator would take that out of the equation. That's what Dalts will be doing. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SimonN 720 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 36 minutes ago, Forourselves said: Exactly. No one is saying Saudi Arabia is perfect, but they at least outwardly, appear to also be prepared to change, albeit slowly. So let’s not use old, inaccurate and largely irrelevant data to prove a point. You are a disgraceful human being who will spin anything to being positive if it is in the cause of justifying what TNZ is doing. To try to justify Saudi Arabia's human rights record by saying they appear to be prepared to change ...slowly is nothing short of blind stupidity. Let's be clear on what is common place in KSA Torture is an approved form of judicial punishment Amputation is a commonly used judicial punishment No free speech (those who voice any opposition are imprisoned without trial) State sponsored assassination of critics 3rd highest number of executions in the world, many without proper trial or with confessions gained by torture. regular use of torture in police interrogation Women highly discriminated against Very high level of religious discrimination And that's just for starters. Any comments that suggest they might change need to be considered with a high level of scepticism. Their statements pander to whatever will suit them best but then they do whatever they want. An example of this is that while they had the presidency of the G20, they significantly reduced the number of executions but as soon as the presidency was over, the number ramped up again. There is no excuse for holding the America's Cup in KSA and the moral compass of anybody involved with either considering it or justifying it is badly off course. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rh3000 1,883 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said: The rest of the world is at least a year ahead of us. I'm not so sure this is a race worth winning... our economy has done much better so far, and the early vaccine adoptors are dealing with some new challenges. Last December, the United Kingdom became the first country to administer COVID-19 vaccines. That first-mover advantage is looking more like a liability right now as the effectiveness of that initial batch of doses appears to wear down, and cases spike again. ... Israel, another early vaccine-mover, started to offer booster shots to people over 60 from July 1, as the number of cases started to increase across the country. Case numbers there then subsided, and a larger public health crisis was averted, further indication that boosters will be an important line of defense for the world's biggest economies this winter. As Berenberg economist Holger Schmieding said in a recent investor note, “The vaccine protection becomes less effective over time, and booster jabs can make a decisive difference.” https://fortune.com/2021/10/22/covid-vaccines-effectiveness-uk-britain-boosters-mask-mandates-passports/ I'm not suggesting NZ's vaccine lateness was entirely strategic, but it may prove to be a blessing in disguise, enabled by our suppression efforts. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kate short for Bob 438 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 26 minutes ago, rh3000 said: I'm not so sure this is a race worth winning... our economy has done much better so far, and the early vaccine adoptors are dealing with some new challenges. When you say "our economy" which economy are you referring to? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 1,694 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 1 hour ago, SimonN said: You are a disgraceful human being who will spin anything to being positive if it is in the cause of justifying what TNZ is doing. To try to justify Saudi Arabia's human rights record by saying they appear to be prepared to change ...slowly is nothing short of blind stupidity. Let's be clear on what is common place in KSA Torture is an approved form of judicial punishment Amputation is a commonly used judicial punishment No free speech (those who voice any opposition are imprisoned without trial) State sponsored assassination of critics 3rd highest number of executions in the world, many without proper trial or with confessions gained by torture. regular use of torture in police interrogation Women highly discriminated against Very high level of religious discrimination And that's just for starters. Any comments that suggest they might change need to be considered with a high level of scepticism. Their statements pander to whatever will suit them best but then they do whatever they want. An example of this is that while they had the presidency of the G20, they significantly reduced the number of executions but as soon as the presidency was over, the number ramped up again. There is no excuse for holding the America's Cup in KSA and the moral compass of anybody involved with either considering it or justifying it is badly off course. Yet they are allies of Western Governments and nations. None of which has anything to do with the Americas Cup. The US tortures people, they just do it in secret. They amputate as a form of torture, they just do it in secret. How do you think they obtain "intelligence" you think people just sit and watch screens all day and night? No, they capture, they torture, and they push people to the limit of what the body can handle, often past that limit until they talk. They forgo human rights and international law in the name of "the war on terrorism", The US, invades sovereign nations, leaves millions homeless as refugees, occupies for decades, destroys entire cities and towns, withdraws and leaves other countries to clean up the mess. The US bombs civilians indiscriminately, kills innocent women and children and just says "sorry folks, no hard feelings" when they get it wrong. The US discriminates against blacks and LGBTQI people. Free speech? Free speech is the reason for the amount of mis information spread on the internet that the world is currently trying to combat. We are conditioned to hate all Saudi's, we are told they are barbaric, that they're all terrorists hell bent on killing westerners. Again, none of this has anything what so ever to do with the AC. If you have a problem, don't buy gas, don't put oil in your car, don't fly on a plane, and don't buy anything that has anything to do with chemicals the Saudis produce and/ or export, because if you do, you're a hypocrite. Many sports events are held in the Kingdom, sailing is no different to any other sport, so get the hell off your high horse and put your money where your mouth is or STFU. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pusslicker 666 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Forourselves said: narcissistic little mind There we go. I think we're getting to the crux of this, my cluster b friend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 1,694 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, pusslicker said: There we go. I think we're getting to the crux of this, my cluster b friend. That you're a narcissist? I think I told you that a few months ago. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NeedAClew 1,786 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 4 hours ago, rh3000 said: I'm not so sure this is a race worth winning... our economy has done much better so far, and the early vaccine adoptors are dealing with some new challenges. Last December, the United Kingdom became the first country to administer COVID-19 vaccines. That first-mover advantage is looking more like a liability right now as the effectiveness of that initial batch of doses appears to wear down, and cases spike again. ... Israel, another early vaccine-mover, started to offer booster shots to people over 60 from July 1, as the number of cases started to increase across the country. Case numbers there then subsided, and a larger public health crisis was averted, further indication that boosters will be an important line of defense for the world's biggest economies this winter. As Berenberg economist Holger Schmieding said in a recent investor note, “The vaccine protection becomes less effective over time, and booster jabs can make a decisive difference.” https://fortune.com/2021/10/22/covid-vaccines-effectiveness-uk-britain-boosters-mask-mandates-passports/ I'm not suggesting NZ's vaccine lateness was entirely strategic, but it may prove to be a blessing in disguise, enabled by our suppression efforts. Umm...if using the current vaccines, which NZ is, will need boosters. Just not now. Later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SimonN 720 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Forourselves said: Yet they are allies of Western Governments and nations. None of which has anything to do with the Americas Cup. The US tortures people, they just do it in secret. They amputate as a form of torture, they just do it in secret. How do you think they obtain "intelligence" you think people just sit and watch screens all day and night? No, they capture, they torture, and they push people to the limit of what the body can handle, often past that limit until they talk. They forgo human rights and international law in the name of "the war on terrorism", The US, invades sovereign nations, leaves millions homeless as refugees, occupies for decades, destroys entire cities and towns, withdraws and leaves other countries to clean up the mess. The US bombs civilians indiscriminately, kills innocent women and children and just says "sorry folks, no hard feelings" when they get it wrong. The US discriminates against blacks and LGBTQI people. Free speech? Free speech is the reason for the amount of mis information spread on the internet that the world is currently trying to combat. We are conditioned to hate all Saudi's, we are told they are barbaric, that they're all terrorists hell bent on killing westerners. Again, none of this has anything what so ever to do with the AC. If you have a problem, don't buy gas, don't put oil in your car, don't fly on a plane, and don't buy anything that has anything to do with chemicals the Saudis produce and/ or export, because if you do, you're a hypocrite. Many sports events are held in the Kingdom, sailing is no different to any other sport, so get the hell off your high horse and put your money where your mouth is or STFU. Like many people in business and sport, I do choose to boycott KSA, but you seem unable to understand that there is a huge difference between me doing all I can to avoid it but maybe occasionally using a KSA product and holding a major high profile sports event in the country. Look at articles like this https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/28/saudi-arabia-has-spent-at-least-15bn-on-sportswashing-report-reveals KSA use sport as an attempt to enhance their reputation to cover up the human rights abuses that go on every single day against so many of their citizens. If you think they want to hold the AC because they love sailing or because they think it will make KSA a tourist destination, you are beyond stupid. And if you really want to draw similarities between the behaviour of, say, the USA with KSA, you are beyond hope. Yes, the USA has issues but they are on a completely different scale to what goes on in KSA. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gissie 1,765 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 1 hour ago, NeedAClew said: Umm...if using the current vaccines, which NZ is, will need boosters. Just not now. Later. At what stage are boosters needed? We are still evaluating if they work, yet our first vaccinated are hitting six months on their second shot. Still we do give free gifts, like KFC, to the laggards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gissie 1,765 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 6 hours ago, SimonN said: You are a disgraceful human being who will spin anything to being positive if it is in the cause of justifying what TNZ is doing. To try to justify Saudi Arabia's human rights record by saying they appear to be prepared to change ...slowly is nothing short of blind stupidity. Let's be clear on what is common place in KSA Torture is an approved form of judicial punishment Amputation is a commonly used judicial punishment No free speech (those who voice any opposition are imprisoned without trial) State sponsored assassination of critics 3rd highest number of executions in the world, many without proper trial or with confessions gained by torture. regular use of torture in police interrogation Women highly discriminated against Very high level of religious discrimination And that's just for starters. Any comments that suggest they might change need to be considered with a high level of scepticism. Their statements pander to whatever will suit them best but then they do whatever they want. An example of this is that while they had the presidency of the G20, they significantly reduced the number of executions but as soon as the presidency was over, the number ramped up again. There is no excuse for holding the America's Cup in KSA and the moral compass of anybody involved with either considering it or justifying it is badly off course. Many on your list above could also describe PRC. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 1,694 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 22 minutes ago, SimonN said: Like many people in business and sport, I do choose to boycott KSA, but you seem unable to understand that there is a huge difference between me doing all I can to avoid it but maybe occasionally using a KSA product and holding a major high profile sports event in the country. Look at articles like this https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/28/saudi-arabia-has-spent-at-least-15bn-on-sportswashing-report-reveals KSA use sport as an attempt to enhance their reputation to cover up the human rights abuses that go on every single day against so many of their citizens. If you think they want to hold the AC because they love sailing or because they think it will make KSA a tourist destination, you are beyond stupid. And if you really want to draw similarities between the behaviour of, say, the USA with KSA, you are beyond hope. Yes, the USA has issues but they are on a completely different scale to what goes on in KSA. Blah blah, you have no leg to stand on. You'll happily use products funded by, and produced in Saudi Arabia while boycotting them on moral grounds. You're a hypocrite, plain and simple. That's all there is to it. Every nation that hosts a sports event, does so to advertise their country to the world. Its all sports washing, whether it be the US, China, Japan or Saudi Arabia. They only show the world what they want the world to see. If they're prepared to fund sporting events that otherwise wouldn't happen, why not? Its not up to sports teams to resolve the worlds political issues. Thats what Governments are for. Doesn't look that bad right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 1,694 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 1,694 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 We've been conditioned to only believe one narrative... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dogwatch 1,320 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 1 hour ago, SimonN said: Like many people in business and sport, I do choose to boycott KSA I see. So when you fill up your car, you ensure none of the fuel originated there? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
enigmatically2 1,483 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Who to believe. A couple of apologists for KSA (at least one of whom has a clearly biased agenda), posting fluff pieces sponsored by KSA or https://www.amnesty.org.uk/issues/saudi-arabia?utm_source=google&utm_medium=grant&utm_campaign=AWA_REG_GEN_saudi&utm_content=amnesty international saudi arabia https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2021/country-chapters/saudi-arabia Or pretty much every other independent human rights organisation Another really tricky one 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barfy 1,308 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 China olympics anyone? And I have visited China multiple times, have relatives and many friends there btw. The most opaque regime in the world I reckon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dogwatch 1,320 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Have we considered containing our outrage until we actually know there will be an event in Jeddah? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shebeen 479 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 19 hours ago, pusslicker said: While not perfect the US is a country at least now governed by the rule of law. Democratically voted on by its citizens. The western democracies including your own are just objectively better. You can't honestly compare that to SA. And Japan? Have you been there? What human rights abuses have they committed? China and Russia are garbage in the same way SA is. How is it hypocritical to criticize the kiwi's sending the cup to SA when US, China, Japan and Russia aren't in the running to bail GD out? what does Sailing Anarchy go to do with this? oh if you meant KSA, there's 650 million reasons why they are not that bad it seems. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-state-dept-okays-650-million-potential-air-to-air-missile-deal-saudi-arabia-2021-11-04/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rennmaus 3,064 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 13 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said: It's more than that plus I'm not sure those looking in from the outside realise the political situation in NZ is extremely volatile. The rest of the world is at least a year ahead of us. The current Government in NZ has an agenda that is destabilising. Only this past week did one of our Rich Lister's take on MBIE in Court over their Covid management. MBIE lost and have backed down. There is an overlap in the MBIE personnel involved in that case and the AC. Any business that involves overseas engagement or interaction to succeed is facing increasing uncertainty if operating in NZ. Strategically any smart operator would take that out of the equation. That's what Dalts will be doing. There are court cases due to Corona measures on a weekly or monthly basis in Germany. So how is NZ different? Solely governments that don't give a damn about their citizens will make one and only one mistake regarding C19: do nothing. We all can be glad to live in countries where going to court against government agencies is allowed at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rennmaus 3,064 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 5 hours ago, Forourselves said: We've been conditioned to only believe one narrative... I see, you studied at the University of YouTube. That says it all actually, no reason to argue further. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NeedAClew 1,786 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 5 hours ago, Gissie said: At what stage are boosters needed? We are still evaluating if they work, yet our first vaccinated are hitting six months on their second shot. Still we do give free gifts, like KFC, to the laggards. US is booster enthusiastic. They say 6 months from 2nd shot. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/booster-shot.html Evaluating if they work for WHAT? Preventing deaths and hospitalizations? Duh yes. Google for stats. State data are compelling. Surely your government can google. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rh3000 1,883 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 11 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said: When you say "our economy" which economy are you referring to? New Zealand's https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.25.21259556v1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rh3000 1,883 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 7 hours ago, NeedAClew said: Umm...if using the current vaccines, which NZ is, will need boosters. Just not now. Later. Agreed, but we won't have to have lost anywhere near as many lives to have discovered this. Btw, its possible a booster will be needed ongoing, not just one 6 monther. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NeedAClew 1,786 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 24 minutes ago, rh3000 said: Agreed, but we won't have to have lost anywhere near as many lives to have discovered this. Btw, its possible a booster will be needed ongoing, not just one 6 monther. Right. Others sadly did the heavy lifting. So what wrt ongoing boosters? I expect they will be ongoing. It's not a failure when (delta in US) it cuts getting infected by 6x-10x. Over 90% of hospitalized or dead here were unvaxxinated. If you don't like those odds, well, good luck with that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
floater 698 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 13 hours ago, SimonN said: There is no excuse for holding the America's Cup in KSA and the moral compass of anybody involved with either considering it or justifying it is badly off course. gives me some extra respect for Tuke and Burling - and the line they drew in the sand for GD. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
enigmatically2 1,483 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 3 hours ago, dogwatch said: Have we considered containing our outrage until we actually know there will be an event in Jeddah? Two reasons why not 1) Because if protest is to make any difference then it must be before the decision is set in stone. And whilst GD may not read here, certain media types certainly do, and they can reflect that anger in their pieces (and indeed some have done). 2) Because there is bugger all else to talk about now Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dogwatch 1,320 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said: 1) Because if protest is to make any difference then it must be before the decision is set in stone. And whilst GD may not read here, certain media types certainly do, and they can reflect that anger in their pieces (and indeed some have done). He wouldn't give a flying fuck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
floater 698 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, dogwatch said: He wouldn't give a flying fuck. so, he doesn't give a shit whether he has Burling or not? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
enigmatically2 1,483 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 28 minutes ago, dogwatch said: He wouldn't give a flying fuck. He should. Because sponsor will Emirates may or may not, but I'm bloody sure some or all of Omega; Toyota; Spark; Genesis; Steinlager; HP; SkyCity; TVNZ; MacDonalds; TheMarket.com & McKinsey will Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 1,694 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Rennmaus said: I see, you studied at the University of YouTube. That says it all actually, no reason to argue further. No, but maybe time to change the narrative as opposed to believing the media narrative. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 1,694 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said: Two reasons why not 1) Because if protest is to make any difference then it must be before the decision is set in stone. And whilst GD may not read here, certain media types certainly do, and they can reflect that anger in their pieces (and indeed some have done). 2) Because there is bugger all else to talk about now So you're going to protest something you heard might happen? You'd look pretty silly if it didn't. 2 is the real reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 1,694 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 44 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said: He should. Because sponsor will Emirates may or may not, but I'm bloody sure some or all of Omega; Toyota; Spark; Genesis; Steinlager; HP; SkyCity; TVNZ; MacDonalds; TheMarket.com & McKinsey will Sponsors only want return on investment. They don't care about anything else. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Main Man 237 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, Forourselves said: Sponsors only want return on investment. They don't care about anything else. Not wading into the argument re: KSA but the above isn’t true. How many times have we seen sponsors withdraw when something unpleasant comes out? For example only this week Nike have pulled out of sponsoring Yorkshire Cricket Club over the recent furore about racism, and countless other examples. Not the same as pulling out over a venue but they certainly do care about how they are perceived. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dogwatch 1,320 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 1 hour ago, floater said: so, he doesn't give a shit whether he has Burling or not? Try to pay attention. That wasn't the question under consideration. We were discussing whether the endless wittering about Jeddah on SA is keeping GD awake at night. We may safely assume that GD can ask PB's opinion without recourse to SA for an answer. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 2,284 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Alex T, briefly touches on AC https://sailinganarchy.com/2021/11/05/99472/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 2,284 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Yachting NZ: Broadreach Radio - Martin Tasker looks back on 5,500 mostly yachting stories audio https://www.sail-world.com/news/243516/Yachting-NZ-Martin-Tasker-reflects Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 1,694 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 1 hour ago, The Main Man said: Not wading into the argument re: KSA but the above isn’t true. How many times have we seen sponsors withdraw when something unpleasant comes out? For example only this week Nike have pulled out of sponsoring Yorkshire Cricket Club over the recent furore about racism, and countless other examples. Not the same as pulling out over a venue but they certainly do care about how they are perceived. Well true. If it affects them directly. But pulling out over a venue seems a stretch, especially given a lot of other sports are held in Saudi Arabia or the middle east. There are already a lot of Western businesses operating in the Kingdom, such as McDonalds, Starbucks etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rh3000 1,883 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 4 hours ago, NeedAClew said: Right. Others sadly did the heavy lifting. So what wrt ongoing boosters? I expect they will be ongoing. It's not a failure when (delta in US) it cuts getting infected by 6x-10x. Over 90% of hospitalized or dead here were unvaxxinated. If you don't like those odds, well, good luck with that. I'm not complaining about ongoing boosters, just noting the emerging discovery appears to be covid will be here forever and require pretty regular vaccination like we never seen before. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gissie 1,765 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 5 hours ago, NeedAClew said: Evaluating if they work for WHAT? Preventing deaths and hospitalizations? Duh yes. Google for stats. State data are compelling. Surely your government can google. Evaluating if they will work on us down here. One of the reasons we were slow with vaccinating was the time it took for our medsafe to look into how safe it is. They are still looking at whether booster shots are any good and what ones might work. As for being able to use Google, they can, but only to look up kitten videos. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gissie 1,765 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, rh3000 said: I'm not complaining about ongoing boosters, just noting the emerging discovery appears to be covid will be here forever and require pretty regular vaccination like we never seen before. So all those millions of people that get flu shots each year are imaginary? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonRowe 961 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 1 hour ago, rh3000 said: I'm not complaining about ongoing boosters, just noting the emerging discovery appears to be covid will be here forever and require pretty regular vaccination like we never seen before. Thats not a surprise, most countries give out flu vaccinations every year, and C19 is a related virus, it was so severe to start with because it was "novel" meaning we had no in built immune reaction to it. The hope is it becomes like any other corona/rhino virus and back to normal would mean only the vulnerable requires yearly vax. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NeedAClew 1,786 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Or people get it like they get a flu shot. Oh wait, people don't...too bad. It's not a shock about re-boosting in the US. Epidemiologists have speculated about that for quite some time. The good news is the current ones hold delta at bay pretty much. Fortunately mRNA tech means future variant specific ones or mixes are fairly straightforward. Hopefully not so many variants they have to do the flu strain guessing game. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 2,284 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 31 minutes ago, NeedAClew said: Or people get it like they get a flu shot. Oh wait, people don't...too bad. It's not a shock about re-boosting in the US. Epidemiologists have speculated about that for quite some time. The good news is the current ones hold delta at bay pretty much. Fortunately mRNA tech means future variant specific ones or mixes are fairly straightforward. Hopefully not so many variants they have to do the flu strain guessing game. I seldom get flu shots but am dbl-vaxxed and have an appt for a booster next week. The amazing ease and effectiveness of mRNA has me stunned and I like to think some lasting good will materialize from the investment that the (yes, terrible) pandemic forced the US and other govts made to accelerate that technology. Some serious people are suggesting it could lead to vaccines against a wide variety of even more serious conditions. Praying.. edit: back today from 5 weeks in Italy; heard some stories while there about how horrific things were for a painfully long time, how scared people were, how tough it was enduring the prolonged lockdowns, and … how truly thankful most Italians are for the eventual vaccines, as if it is a miracle. Uptake % in that country is pretty impressive and the magic is making a vigorous comeback. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SimonN 720 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 13 hours ago, dogwatch said: I see. So when you fill up your car, you ensure none of the fuel originated there? Under 15% of all fuel imports to Australia comes from the Middle East and almost none of it is diesel which my cars use. As I said I. My earlier post, there is a chance that unintentionally I occasionally buy a KSA product but in the scale of things, say compared with selling KSA a major sporting event so they can “sportswash” their reputation, it’s a drop in the ocean. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 2,284 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 The US produces so much damn oil these days it exports a lot of it and even with the recent uptick prices are relatively cheap here and my little Stingray is remarkably efficient but: My next car will for certain be an electric! That the power in my area is hydro, it’s the cleanest way to ride. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 2,284 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 A copy of a post by HR on FB recently. Apologies if already-posted https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2021/11/04/americas-cup-waiting-for-the-details/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JALhazmat 1,617 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 That paragon of freedom of expression that is Saudi Arabia as well as it’s neighbours Qatar and Kuwait has been so threatened by a kiss in a film that it’s just banned the latest marvel film… https://movieweb.com/eternals-banned-gulf-countries-angelina-jolie-responds/ Hey but everyone’s welcome…. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 2,284 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 An Australian rugby fan, a South African rugby fan and a New Zealand rugby fan are all in Saudi Arabia, sharing a smuggled crate of booze... ...when Saudi police rush in and arrest them. The mere possession of alcohol is a severe offence in Saudi Arabia, so for consuming the booze they are all sentenced to death. However, after many months and with the help of good lawyers, they are able successfully to appeal their sentences down to life imprisonment. By a stroke of luck, it was a Saudi national holiday the day their trial finished, and the benevolent sheikh decided they could be released after receiving just 20 lashes. As they were preparing for their punishment, the sheikh announced, "It's my first wife's birthday today, and she has asked me to allow each of you one wish before your whipping." The South African was first. He thought for a while, then said, "Please tie a pillow to my back." This was done, but the pillow lasted only 10 lashes before the whip went through. When the punishment was done, the South African had to be carried away bleeding and crying with pain. The Australian was next up. After watching the South African's horror, he said smugly, "Please fix two pillows to my back." But even two pillows could take only 15 lashes before the whip went through and the Australian was soon led away whimpering loudly (as they do). The New Zealander was the last one up, but before he could say anything, the sheikh turned to him and said, "You are from a most beautiful part of the world and your culture is one of the finest. For this, you may have two wishes!" "Thank you, your most royal and merciful highness," the Kiwi replied. "In recognition of your kindness, my first wish is that you give me not 20 lashes but 100 lashes." "Not only are you an honourable, handsome and powerful man, you are also very brave," the sheikh said with an admiring look on his face. "If 100 lashes is what you desire, then so be it. And your second wish"? "Tie the Australian to my back." 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 1,694 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 37 minutes ago, JALhazmat said: That paragon of freedom of expression that is Saudi Arabia as well as it’s neighbours Qatar and Kuwait has been so threatened by a kiss in a film that it’s just banned the latest marvel film… https://movieweb.com/eternals-banned-gulf-countries-angelina-jolie-responds/ Hey but everyone’s welcome…. Boo fucking hoo. No one cares. Hollywood has bigger problems right now, than a marvel movie banned in Saudi Arabia. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Xlot 1,162 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Stingray~ said: A copy of a post by HR on FB recently. Apologies if already-posted https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2021/11/04/americas-cup-waiting-for-the-details/ So, basically, we’re still on square 1. And this just because Grant-fucking-Dalton painted himself into a corner ... 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 1,694 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Xlot said: So, basically, we’re still on square 1. And this just because Grant-fucking-Dalton painted himself into a corner ... Who really cares, like really? A bunch of moaners on here holding a grudge against Dalton because they're too fucking impatient to wait until the process to play out? Nope. Its yet another storm in a teacup. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 2,284 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 35 minutes ago, Xlot said: So, basically, we’re still on square 1. And this just because Grant-fucking-Dalton painted himself into a corner ... The recent guest interview Dunphy gave to TE is a pretty interesting listen. There’s a chance the only corner GD has to back up and retreat to will be Auckland where, as Dunphy argued strongly for, has infrastructure, the biggest money, and the biggest and invested fan base. GD needs to start thinking about good messaging reasons for his ‘come to Jesus’ about-face when things do come home. The KHD effort is strong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 1,694 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, Stingray~ said: The recent guest interview Dunphy gave to TE is a pretty interesting listen. There’s a chance the only corner GD has to back up and retreat to will be Auckland where, as Dunphy argued strongly for, has infrastructure, the biggest money, and the biggest and invested fan base. GD needs to start thinking about good messaging reasons for his ‘come to Jesus’ about-face when things do come home. Dunphy was asked directly if he had the money, to which he replied "no" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NeedAClew 1,786 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 Ok, so iirc, GD blew off Auckland/NZ/whatever $$$ cuz it wasn't enough, started shopping the event around, lots of promising places but no cash in hand to offer GD, Daffy claims has funds to top off the whatever $$$ and wants to sue to keep event in NZ, nobody is coughing up cash in Europe so far but Daffy has "interest" but not cash in hand...Ocean Race said sailing by btw cuz too weird in NZ now....GD is infallible so no worries. Except Hamhand PhD says Brits aren't valid CoR opening it to...somebody...but GD needs cash and Jacinda's favor. Miss anything? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 2,284 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 15:45 edit: 22:15 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dg_sailingfan 68 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 59 minutes ago, Xlot said: So, basically, we’re still on square 1. And this just because Grant-fucking-Dalton painted himself into a corner ... When do you finally stop taking everything to the bank that little freak Hamish Ross says! He is a FREAK! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dg_sailingfan 68 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 The Auckland Stopover being scrubbed from TOR Route for 2022/23 is PROOF that it is too risky to have a Major International Sporting Event with International Travellers in NZ for the time being until NZ gets rid of Ardern and her cohorts! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gissie 1,765 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 20 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said: The Auckland Stopover being scrubbed from TOR Route for 2022/23 is PROOF that it is too risky to have a Major International Sporting Event with International Travellers in NZ for the time being until NZ gets rid of Ardern and her cohorts! You seem to have missed that China is in the same category. Must have to wait until they get rid of Xi and his cohorts before sailing can return. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunseeker 460 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said: The Auckland Stopover being scrubbed from TOR Route for 2022/23 is PROOF that it is too risky to have a Major International Sporting Event with International Travellers in NZ for the time being until NZ gets rid of Ardern and her cohorts! It’s! A! Good! Thing! You! Use! The! Exclamation! Point! At! The! End! Of! Every! Sentence! So! We! Know! You! Have! Something! Exciting! To! Say! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sailbydate 3,622 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 4 hours ago, Stingray~ said: The US produces so much damn oil these days it exports a lot of it and even with the recent uptick prices are relatively cheap here and my little Stingray is remarkably efficient but: My next car will for certain be an electric! That the power in my area is hydro, it’s the cleanest way to ride. Ha. What happens when your area has a dry spell and the hydro storage lake is drying up? Can you buy-in 'green power' from a neighbouring area, or will 'less green' power be OK? Would you even know? Might even have to burn filthy brown coal, like we do, but don't want to talk about it. ;-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sailbydate 3,622 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 2 hours ago, Stingray~ said: The KHD effort is strong. Well it might have been had there been any ACTUAL money put up and Dunphy was trustworthy. As far as I can tell, neither was present in his grandiose offer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rh3000 1,883 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 6 hours ago, Gissie said: So all those millions of people that get flu shots each year are imaginary? This is not the flu Flu vaccines don't require 2 shots within 8 weeks and a booster every 6 months from then on... To say nothing of the implications of missing a flu shot vs missing a covid one... If you can't tell the difference between that and this then I can't help you mate... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rh3000 1,883 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 5 hours ago, JonRowe said: Thats not a surprise, most countries give out flu vaccinations every year, and C19 is a related virus, it was so severe to start with because it was "novel" meaning we had no in built immune reaction to it. The hope is it becomes like any other corona/rhino virus and back to normal would mean only the vulnerable requires yearly vax. Time will tell but this isn't looking likely Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gissie 1,765 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 10 minutes ago, rh3000 said: This is not the flu Flu vaccines don't require 2 shots within 8 weeks and a booster every 6 months from then on... To say nothing of the implications of missing a flu shot vs missing a covid one... If you can't tell the difference between that and this then I can't help you mate... When the flu virus first appeared they would have been happy to have had access to such vaccines. Shit the original inhabitants of the new world would have appreciated the vaccines. Now, with a combination of built in resistance and the normal development of such viruses (more virulent, less deadly) the flu is no longer the problem it was. The yearly jab is just to help out those more at risk. This version is more than likely to follow the same path, as most people would know. Unless you are a complete idiot, in which case I can't help you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SCARECROW 735 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 57 minutes ago, rh3000 said: This is not the flu Flu vaccines don't require 2 shots within 8 weeks and a booster every 6 months from then on... To say nothing of the implications of missing a flu shot vs missing a covid one... If you can't tell the difference between that and this then I can't help you mate... Flu vac only lasts 6 months. That's why they start giving them out at the end of summer start of Autumn. That way your covered for the "flu season" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pusslicker 666 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Sailbydate said: Ha. What happens when your area has a dry spell and the hydro storage lake is drying up? Can you buy-in 'green power' from a neighbouring area, or will 'less green' power be OK? Would you even know? Might even have to burn filthy brown coal, like we do, but don't want to talk about it. ;-) Then we're all fucked long before that happens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
167149 290 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 3 hours ago, Sailbydate said: Ha. What happens when your area has a dry spell and the hydro storage lake is drying up? Can you buy-in 'green power' from a neighbouring area, or will 'less green' power be OK? Would you even know? Might even have to burn filthy brown coal, like we do, but don't want to talk about it. ;-) not only dirty brown coal can be burnt here, ti tree burns brilliantly and is second to none when it comes to smoking fish. however if you're in the central nth island that maire can put coal to shame Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gissie 1,765 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 1 minute ago, 167149 said: not only dirty brown coal can be burnt here, ti tree burns brilliantly and is second to none when it comes to smoking fish. however if you're in the central nth island that maire can put coal to shame Burning manuka and kanaka voids the warranty on many Woodburn ers because of the heat it can produce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zenmasterfred 565 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 Well, keep tuning in to see if anything is happening besides pissing upwind contests to see who can stay the driest (ei: least piss blow back). So far same old same old but hope burns eternal and will just have to see what the flip side brings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rh3000 1,883 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 4 hours ago, SCARECROW said: Flu vac only lasts 6 months. That's why they start giving them out at the end of summer start of Autumn. That way your covered for the "flu season" True except covid is much less affected by seasons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gissie 1,765 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 53 minutes ago, rh3000 said: True except covid is much less affected by seasons. Really? It has been more dangerous in winter, vitamin D has been a factor. The science says it is far worse in winter. But you know better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JALhazmat 1,617 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 10 hours ago, Forourselves said: Boo fucking hoo. No one cares. Hollywood has bigger problems right now, than a marvel movie banned in Saudi Arabia. The point… you missing it by fucking miles. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NeedAClew 1,786 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 11 hours ago, rh3000 said: This is not the flu Flu vaccines don't require 2 shots within 8 weeks and a booster every 6 months from then on... To say nothing of the implications of missing a flu shot vs missing a covid one... If you can't tell the difference between that and this then I can't help you mate... You seem to focus on inconvenience. Some people take pills every day. Some people remember to get blood tests. Others never see a doctor, don't go to pharmacies, don't like shots, etc. Yeah a change for them. But not an indictment of a vaccine. Maybe single payer health has a problem fitting it into whatever the notion of "health care" but I just don't see what is such an issue for a person. Is there not paid time off for medical visits in the wonderland? Just go. Probably get an app reminder anyway. Even here in the dark ages of medicine we do. You want a better once and done sterilizing vaccine? Who wouldn't. Maybe sometime but right now this is the virus we have. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pusslicker 666 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 13 hours ago, rh3000 said: This is not the flu Flu vaccines don't require 2 shots within 8 weeks and a booster every 6 months from then on... To say nothing of the implications of missing a flu shot vs missing a covid one... If you can't tell the difference between that and this then I can't help you mate... The rest of the western world is awash in vaccine. You go to the supermarket and the pharmacy has it. You go down main street or the high street it is there. It literally takes 3 minutes to get it. There are signs everywhere. That's why I was wondering what was taking such a long time for NZ with its low population to vaccinate. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
floater 698 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 21 hours ago, dogwatch said: Try to pay attention. That wasn't the question under consideration. We were discussing whether the endless wittering about Jeddah on SA is keeping GD awake at night. We may safely assume that GD can ask PB's opinion without recourse to SA for an answer. apologies. any discussion of whether this forum relevant in a meta-sense to the AC itself so preposterous its certain my attention will wander. for example, to something like this: Oct 14 (or thereabouts) Burling and Tuke make public announcement that may be construed as a shot across the bows to ETNZ: "take it to the KSA and you can fuck yourselves". Oct 28 (or thereabouts). ETNZ publicly announce signing of Outteridge. is the chess game being played in public here? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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