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I agree Kyle was stupid.  The lack of training and pre-planning on part of the "protectors" was a recipe for trouble. 

However, damage was occurring, police were not protecting and some business did request protection.  Kyle was not the only one who responded.  They all probably expected the protestors to behave reasonably.  You know, see the guns, stay back and leave the businesses alone.

Again, as best I can tell, Kyle was attacked on multiple occasions and he did not fire at anyone who was not attacking him.  He was guilty of stupid actions (being there with a gun, with no training, and with no plan to handle attacks without shooting anyone).  Once he was being attacked, pulling the trigger is actually a pretty obvious response.  

In my opinion, attacking a guy with a semiautomatic rifle in a heated and chaotic situation is actually more stupid than taking a gun to a protest (again lots of folks on both sides carried guns but did not use them).  Kyle's attackers certainly were not well trained in the tactics of disarming an adversary.  Some of his attackers would seem to have gotten a Darwin awards for their actions.  

 

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On Hamish Ross and the Discrimination Issue: This will be long, pedantic, and legal.  I apologize for the length; read at your own risk. Hamish Ross has recently claimed on multiple occasion

I’m not calling this out for the sake of ostracizing you, nor to play PC police on a forum that is notorious for the opposite of that. I could just hit ignore, delete or whatever. I’m calling this out

Hilarious to watch Kiwis who've been around since AC35 twist themselves into intellectual pretzels to give ETNZ a pass on what they screamed bloody murder about when Oracle did it. Even Oracle di

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1 minute ago, P Flados said:

I agree Kyle was stupid.  The lack of training and pre-planning on part of the "protectors" was a recipe for trouble. 

However, damage was occurring, police were not protecting and some business did request protection.  Kyle was not the only one who responded.  They all probably expected the protestors to behave reasonably.  You know, see the guns, stay back and leave the businesses alone.

Again, as best I can tell, Kyle was attacked on multiple occasions and he did not fire at anyone who was not attacking him.  He was guilty of stupid actions (being there with a gun, with no training, and with no plan to handle attacks without shooting anyone).  Once he was being attacked, pulling the trigger is actually a pretty obvious response.  

In my opinion, attacking a guy with a semiautomatic rifle in a heated and chaotic situation is actually more stupid than taking a gun to a protest (again lots of folks on both sides carried guns but did not use them).  Kyle's attackers certainly were not well trained in the tactics of disarming an adversary.  Some of his attackers would seem to have gotten a Darwin awards for their actions.  

 

I guess to me it seems pretty provocative to bring a weapon like that into a protest. Rittenhouse didn't just react in the moment. He planned and spent time getting into that situation, and clearly wanted to engage the protesters. The protesters were understandably reacting to a horrible thing with heightened emotions. Please try to be reasonable.

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I agree that there is much blame to go around.  

However, we can not change the past, but should learn from it as best we can.

Racial injustice needs to stop. 

So does black on black violent crime. So does black on white violent crime.  So does white on black violent crime.

Blaming police who are properly doing their jobs does not help any of the three items above.  I want police to do their jobs, but I also want them to be held accountable if they go too far.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, nroose said:

The protesters were understandably reacting to a horrible thing with heightened emotions. Please try to be reasonable.

Throwing rocks and bricks, setting things on fire, etc. does sound like such reasonable actions. 

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1 hour ago, P Flados said:

I agree that there is much blame to go around.  

However, we can not change the past, but should learn from it as best we can.

Racial injustice needs to stop. 

So does black on black violent crime. So does black on white violent crime.  So does white on black violent crime.

Blaming police who are properly doing their jobs does not help any of the three items above.  I want police to do their jobs, but I also want them to be held accountable if they go too far.

 

 

Institutionalized racism is the problem though. Institutionalized racism is the reason cops are being blamed for the racial injustices being perpetrated on Black Americans.

They enforce laws that are discriminatory, and racist. Black people fear the very people they are supposed to trust with their lives. Instead of protecting the lives they're supposed to protect, they're taking them, their ending lives they are supposed to be protecting often with no consequence, and they've been doing it for decades.

Since the days of slavery, all that has followed is black people being treated as 2nd class citizens. From slavery, to the Lynching of Emmitt Till, to James Meredith rejected admission to Ole Miss, to the Malcolm X assassination, to the MLK assassination, to Rodney King, to Breonna Taylor to Trayvon Martin, to George Floyd, to Kyle Rittenhouse's exoneration to the Ahmaud Arbery murders.

Black Americans killed - murdered by white people and cops purely based on their skin colour. 

This is why Black people don't trust cops, because to them, Cops represent a system that is marketed to protected them, but designed to target them. 

 

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Please note that Kyle is not my hero.  His actions were stupid and inappropriate.  I mentioned my opinion of him in my first post on the subject.

I have seen no evidence that he is a Nazi, have you?

He was not found to be guilty of murder in his trial.  Being young and stupid, is it hard to believe that he feared for his life after being attacked?  Most people who pull a trigger after being attacked are never charged with anything. 

Someone requested the use of reason.  When a group of people resembling an angry mod is causing wanton destruction, is it unreasonable for another group of people to want to protect that property?  If a group of people assemble to protect said property, is it reasonable to attack the "protectors"?

What I am saying is that there was lots of stupidity on both sides.  As a whole, neither side was "saintly" and neither side was "evil".  Those involved in the original event that prompted everything (the ones later found guilty and sentenced accordingly), and every individual that engaged in destruction, violence or "upping the stakes" during the protests were wrong to do so.  It really took the combination of all of the above for the tragedy to occur.  

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1 hour ago, P Flados said:

Please note that Kyle is not my hero.  His actions were stupid and inappropriate.  I mentioned my opinion of him in my first post on the subject.

I have seen no evidence that he is a Nazi, have you?

He was not found to be guilty of murder in his trial.  Being young and stupid, is it hard to believe that he feared for his life after being attacked?  Most people who pull a trigger after being attacked are never charged with anything. 

Someone requested the use of reason.  When a group of people resembling an angry mod is causing wanton destruction, is it unreasonable for another group of people to want to protect that property?  If a group of people assemble to protect said property, is it reasonable to attack the "protectors"?

What I am saying is that there was lots of stupidity on both sides.  As a whole, neither side was "saintly" and neither side was "evil".  Those involved in the original event that prompted everything (the ones later found guilty and sentenced accordingly), and every individual that engaged in destruction, violence or "upping the stakes" during the protests were wrong to do so.  It really took the combination of all of the above for the tragedy to occur.  

I don't like this here either. But I will object to letting you have the last word. Just as I object to Rittenhouse getting perks for murder. I also object to your use of his first name. Like he's your bud. Even though you profess to not consider him a hero. It's not OK to take your gun to a protest in another state, shoot some people, and the plead self defense and ignorance. Ignorance is not a valid defense. People who commit crimes because they are stupid actually get caught and convicted often. I guess sometimes the white kids get off on that stupid defense sometimes, but that is not OK either.

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Worst thread drift in AC ever? DG, Jal, and all others should never have mentioned him, not here anyway.

Back to yachting, or rather AC-35 and Dunfuck:

On 11/27/2021 at 3:42 PM, The_Alchemist said:

Do your homework instead of just making shit up.  Dunphy has been involved with the NZ AC efforts since the beginning and he was asked by the RNZYC to solicit local funding for hosting the cup.

Linky or picture?

I have a picture of him fucking horses, it's true.

And how old is Dunphy, or how old was he in 1987 (Fremantle)?

Disclaimer to avoid a defamation suit: fucking is a germanism/barbarism for breeding.

And BTW, my grandpa always said to never let your daughters get near horses, or they will be lost for crewing for you.

 

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7 hours ago, P Flados said:

You blame a stupid little kid for much with no blame for the stupid idiots that set fire to stuff, threw rocks at people, attacked an armed man, and generally acted like an angry mob unwilling to tolerate any opinion but their own.

The protection our laws provide for peaceful and law abiding protests is a very good thing.  Abuse of this privilege to the extent recently observed (on both sides of the political spectrum) is just sad. 

Various people in various places were dismayed at the lack of police protection from destructive actions of these "so called" peaceful BLM protests. 

Folks both for and against BLM were carrying guns "for protection".  With the mob mentality that these protests devolved into on many occasions, anyone trying to protect their property were faced with poor choices.  To stand up against the destructive actions with nothing but your bare hands would be a very scarry thing indeed.  Call the police and nothing would happen.  Stand up with a gun in your hand and you might be forced to use it.

 

17 years old, You’re not even developed as an adult at that age, Not able to make critical life or death decisions, you are a child at that age. 
Yet  you and Kyle think it’s a clever idea to drive across state lines  and play the armed avenger resulting in him killing people.  fucking genius, the pair of you

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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Institutionalized racism is the problem though. Institutionalized racism is the reason cops are being blamed for the racial injustices being perpetrated on Black Americans.

They enforce laws that are discriminatory, and racist. Black people fear the very people they are supposed to trust with their lives. Instead of protecting the lives they're supposed to protect, they're taking them, their ending lives they are supposed to be protecting often with no consequence, and they've been doing it for decades.

Since the days of slavery, all that has followed is black people being treated as 2nd class citizens. From slavery, to the Lynching of Emmitt Till, to James Meredith rejected admission to Ole Miss, to the Malcolm X assassination, to the MLK assassination, to Rodney King, to Breonna Taylor to Trayvon Martin, to George Floyd, to Kyle Rittenhouse's exoneration to the Ahmaud Arbery murders.

Black Americans killed - murdered by white people and cops purely based on their skin colour. 

This is why Black people don't trust cops, because to them, Cops represent a system that is marketed to protected them, but designed to target them. 

 

I guess you are an American after all your Kiwi claims.

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48 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

17 years old, You’re not even developed as an adult at that age, Not able to make critical life or death decisions, you are a child at that age. 
Yet  you and Kyle think it’s a clever idea to drive across state lines  and play the armed avenger resulting in him killing people.  fucking genius, the pair of you

And the guy he wounded, the one that has admitted pointing his gun at him? Where does his responsibility come into it?

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On 11/27/2021 at 6:42 PM, Horn Rock said:

I've no idea where LR are with their Sim, but clearly ETNZ kept pushing forward with theirs to the extent that it has become a real weapon in their design and development. Terry H acknowledged that in his post event comments. I suspect Ineos are pouring resources into their Sim - knowing now how crucial they are.

Interesting, does F1 utilize AI in their sims? Or is the track a bit more one dimensional and the car needs to deliver a certain mix of downforce, HP, and efficiency that doesn't include critical manoeuvres like tacksand gybes? I'm not a F1 follower, so any thoughts would be interesting.

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31 minutes ago, barfy said:

Interesting, does F1 utilize AI in their sims? Or is the track a bit more one dimensional and the car needs to deliver a certain mix of downforce, HP, and efficiency that doesn't include critical manoeuvres like tacksand gybes? I'm not a F1 follower, so any thoughts would be interesting.

The F1 Sims include the whole circuit, so includes turns, acceleration, braking, impact of wind from all directions, tyre wea etc. Just as complicated, probably even more so (unsurprising as they have been developing for longer and more continuously)

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9 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

The F1 Sims include the whole circuit, so includes turns, acceleration, braking, impact of wind from all directions, tyre wea etc. Just as complicated, probably even more so (unsurprising as they have been developing for longer and more continuously)

Any talk of drivers learning from agents that have tested/learned from multiple sim runs what the optimum recipe is? From what was released, and what I understood, that was the special sauce that gave designers the confidence to develop without actual race data.

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48 minutes ago, barfy said:

Any talk of drivers learning from agents that have tested/learned from multiple sim runs what the optimum recipe is? From what was released, and what I understood, that was the special sauce that gave designers the confidence to develop without actual race data.

In terms of learning the aero setup and tyre choices etc for each track, absolutely

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5 hours ago, Gissie said:

And the guy he wounded, the one that has admitted pointing his gun at him? Where does his responsibility come into it?

pointing a gun at someone that had just shot a man dressed in tactical vest with an AR?  

If you genuinely think it’s thing to go out in public with a loaded weapon then there is a strong whiff of cunt about you. 
 

oh but Kyle shot a pedo so he is a hero… 

yeah he asked him first did he? Before shooting him?  It was luck, not judgement that gave Kyle a “get out clause”

 

 

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Jal, perhaps you have your laws confused.  Kenosha is in Wisconsin, USA, subject to Wisconsin, USA laws, not British laws, not Euro laws, not any other laws.

 
In Wisconsin, there is a right to bear arms and a right of self defense.  Mr Rittenhouse relied on those rights and was tried by a jury of his peers who agreed with him.  Game Over.  Had the jury convicted him, also Game Over because most of us in the USA agree with the "Rule of Law", not the "Rule of what ever you want to think."
 
Upon which Rule do you rely?
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Common sense, not deliberately putting yourself or others in harms way by attending a public disturbance with a loaded weapon with no qualification or form of identification that indicated his “peaceful” presence.  
 

Oh not needing a boom boom stick to make myself feel better.. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

pointing a gun at someone that had just shot a man dressed in tactical vest with an AR?  

If you genuinely think it’s thing to go out in public with a loaded weapon then there is a strong whiff of cunt about you. 
 

oh but Kyle shot a pedo so he is a hero… 

yeah he asked him first did he? Before shooting him?  It was luck, not judgement that gave Kyle a “get out clause”

 

 

The fact you make assumptions and accusations with no evidence shows there is more than just a whiff about you.

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6 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

No idea, I stopped watching all motorsport some years ago. Given their budgets and it being a tech race, you'd have to think they'd have sims.

The very direction AC is going.

Well apart from the NZ team, it has no budget at the moment...

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6 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Common sense, not deliberately putting yourself or others in harms way by attending a public disturbance with a loaded weapon with no qualification or form of identification that indicated his “peaceful” presence.  
 

Oh not needing a boom boom stick to make myself feel better.. 

 

 

Hummmm.  I looked up common sense in the Wisconsin penal code.  Not  there.  Damn that pesky "Rule of Law" thing.

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42 minutes ago, pluscount said:

Jal, perhaps you have your laws confused.  Kenosha is in Wisconsin, USA, subject to Wisconsin, USA laws, not British laws, not Euro laws, not any other laws.

 
In Wisconsin, there is a right to bear arms and a right of self defense.  Mr Rittenhouse relied on those rights and was tried by a jury of his peers who agreed with him.  Game Over.  Had the jury convicted him, also Game Over because most of us in the USA agree with the "Rule of Law", not the "Rule of what ever you want to think."
 
Upon which Rule do you rely?

There is no such right for U18s. He was U18.

Law

 

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17 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Was he allowed to bear that specific rifle?

He was. Wisconsin law permits someone under the age of 18 to possess a rifle so long as it is not a short-barreled rifle (defined as under 16” in length). The Rifle Rittenhouse had was not a short-barreled rifle. It’s why the judge dismissed the charge the weapons charge. Regardless of whether you like the law, which is an entirely different issue, the law is clear.

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13 minutes ago, porthos said:

He was. Wisconsin law permits someone under the age of 18 to possess a rifle so long as it is not a short-barreled rifle (defined as under 16” in length). The Rifle Rittenhouse had was not a short-barreled rifle. It’s why the judge dismissed the charge the weapons charge. Regardless of whether you like the law, which is an entirely different issue, the law is clear.

:( but thanks

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2 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

How do you point a gun at someone after you have been shot? 
 

 

The person who pointed the gun at Rittenhouse got shot after pointing the gun at him. 

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On 11/26/2021 at 4:24 PM, Sailbydate said:

Of course he is. RNZYS wants a successful Defence, as does TNZ.

in my world the cup is not a hideous ewer, instead its a match race. If the race leaves Auckland then well and truly RNZYS has lost the cup.

On 11/26/2021 at 9:41 PM, Sailbydate said:

Some background. But you've probably seen this already?

'Emirates Team New Zealand's chief designer Dan Bernasconi says he was initially skeptical that it would be possible to develop an AI Bot that would work in the America's Cup context. While it was easy enough to get a the AC75 agent to sail in a straight line, tacking and gybing was a lot more complex.

"The crucial moment came when it started beating the sailors," says Bernasconi. "It could do upwind and downwind times and tacks that were better than the sailors. That was the moment when we thought, OK this is going to be useful."

When one of the design team comes up with a new foil design, it can be run through the AI agent, which will immediately tell the designer whether it is faster or slower than the "learned" AC75 that the bot has developed based on its learnings and improvements developed from the current performance data from Te Rehutai.

The team claim that the process is ten times faster than normal testing processes - and is accurate.'

https://www.sail-world.com/news/235683/Americas-Cup-AI-lifts-Kiwi-crew-to-a-new-level 

so, you're saying, Te Rehutai had a herbie?

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@JALhazmat & @P Flados

If there is one person who is to be blamed for all the mess that happened in Kenosha in the aftermath of the Jacob Blake Shooting it is Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers.

The Kenosha Police Department, knowing what happened earlier in Minneapolis, requested Assistence from the Governor after the incident with Blake happened and Governor Evers did absolutely nothing.

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1 hour ago, porthos said:

He was. Wisconsin law permits someone under the age of 18 to possess a rifle so long as it is not a short-barreled rifle (defined as under 16” in length). The Rifle Rittenhouse had was not a short-barreled rifle. It’s why the judge dismissed the charge the weapons charge. Regardless of whether you like the law, which is an entirely different issue, the law is clear.

Only if you own the weapon in question (which he did not) or for target shooting or hunting under adult supervision.

Ridiculously weak restrictions but he still wasn't compliant

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

@JALhazmat & @P Flados

If there is one person who is to be blamed for all the mess that happened in Kenosha in the aftermath of the Jacob Blake Shooting it is Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers.

The Kenosha Police Department, knowing what happened earlier in Minneapolis, requested Assistence from the Governor after the incident with Blake happened and Governor Evers did absolutely nothing.

Let's take this discussion away from this thread, which is nominally about AC37.

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2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Only if you own the weapon in question (which he did not) or for target shooting or hunting under adult supervision.

Ridiculously weak restrictions but he still wasn't compliant

I'm sorry, but none of that is correct. There is a carve-out for rifles and shotguns that exempt those guns from the restrictions you mentioned. Granted, the statute is poorly drafted, but it's clear enough.  It's Wisc. Stat. Sec. 948.60(3)(c). Here is the relevant language with my explanation:

"This section [which includes the restrictions you mentioned] applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun [as opposed to a handgun, to which all of the restrictions you mention apply] if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 [which prohibits short-barreled rifles, which was never at issue in the Rittenhouse case because the rifle he had wasn't short-barreledor is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 [someone under the age of 16, which Rittenhouse wasn't -- he was 17and 29.593 [which is the section requiring a hunter's safety certificate]." (Bold and underline emphasis mine.)

The "and" is critical in the second part. In more clear terms, Rittenhouse could have the rifle (the statute does not require that you own it) and not comply with the other provisions of the statute such as those you listed so long as the rifle was not a short-barreled rifle (and it wasn't) and he was 16 or older (which he was). If he was under the age of 16, he would have had to have a hunter's safety certificate (or all of the restrictions you mentioned would apply), but because he was over the age of 16 he didn't need it.

To be clear, I am in no way claiming this law makes sense or is a good idea. But the law is clear and the judge properly dismissed the weapons charges against Rittenhouse under this part of the Wisconsin statutes because the facts don't support the charge. No lawyer is surprised by that.

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19 hours ago, nroose said:

I don't like this here either. But I will object to letting you have the last word. Just as I object to Rittenhouse getting perks for murder. I also object to your use of his first name. Like he's your bud. Even though you profess to not consider him a hero. It's not OK to take your gun to a protest in another state, shoot some people, and the plead self defense and ignorance. Ignorance is not a valid defense. People who commit crimes because they are stupid actually get caught and convicted often. I guess sometimes the white kids get off on that stupid defense sometimes, but that is not OK either.

just shut up already.

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On 11/27/2021 at 6:41 PM, Sailbydate said:

Some background. But you've probably seen this already?

'Emirates Team New Zealand's chief designer Dan Bernasconi says he was initially skeptical that it would be possible to develop an AI Bot that would work in the America's Cup context. While it was easy enough to get a the AC75 agent to sail in a straight line, tacking and gybing was a lot more complex.

"The crucial moment came when it started beating the sailors," says Bernasconi. "It could do upwind and downwind times and tacks that were better than the sailors. That was the moment when we thought, OK this is going to be useful."

When one of the design team comes up with a new foil design, it can be run through the AI agent, which will immediately tell the designer whether it is faster or slower than the "learned" AC75 that the bot has developed based on its learnings and improvements developed from the current performance data from Te Rehutai.

The team claim that the process is ten times faster than normal testing processes - and is accurate.'

https://www.sail-world.com/news/235683/Americas-Cup-AI-lifts-Kiwi-crew-to-a-new-level 

I still find it extraordinary that ETNZ used a homemade AI system in AC35 to develop a hugely superior boat against a team owned and sponsored by one of the biggest software companies in the world. Even Oracle's starting software let them down on several occasions ... shit, I've got a Garmin watch and some freeware on a cheap tablet that leads me to the line perfectly every time*

* the software is bang on, I'm often not

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7 hours ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

I still find it extraordinary that ETNZ used a homemade AI system in AC35 to develop a hugely superior boat against a team owned and sponsored by one of the biggest software companies in the world. Even Oracle's starting software let them down on several occasions ... shit, I've got a Garmin watch and some freeware on a cheap tablet that leads me to the line perfectly every time*

* the software is bang on, I'm often not

doesn't surprise me even slightly. oracle is a database company. that's what Larry knows. not software.

software is no better than the team writing it. oracle, being a corporation, doesn't know shit about developing good software. 

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Much to the disdain of the MAGA-loving, Arab-hating crowd of this forum, Jiddah will be the start and finish of the upcoming Dakar rally. It is so strange to see that the yachting community suddenly went berserk about "safety" in Jiddah while everybody else that will crisscross the KSA isn't batting an eye!!!

I imagine that every car, truck or motorcycle taking part in the rally will be escorted by an armored Humvee full of marines, an Apache helicopter and a B2 Stealth Bomber just in case the "terrorists" attack… :D     

 

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16 minutes ago, Pizza on Fire said:

Much to the disdain of the MAGA-loving, Arab-hating crowd of this forum, Jiddah will be the start and finish of the upcoming Dakar rally. It is so strange to see that the yachting community suddenly went berserk about "safety" in Jiddah while everybody else that will crisscross the KSA isn't batting an eye!!!

I imagine that every car, truck or motorcycle taking part in the rally will be escorted by an armored Humvee full of marines, an Apache helicopter and a B2 Stealth Bomber just in case the "terrorists" attack… :D     

 

When did the teams arrive into Saudi Arabia?  How many people make up a team?  When does the event end?

 

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19 minutes ago, Pizza on Fire said:

Much to the disdain of the MAGA-loving, Arab-hating crowd of this forum, Jiddah will be the start and finish of the upcoming Dakar rally. It is so strange to see that the yachting community suddenly went berserk about "safety" in Jiddah while everybody else that will crisscross the KSA isn't batting an eye!!!

I imagine that every car, truck or motorcycle taking part in the rally will be escorted by an armored Humvee full of marines, an Apache helicopter and a B2 Stealth Bomber just in case the "terrorists" attack… :D     

 

Don't try that anti-Arab crap again. Most of us are not opposed to KSA as a venue because we are MAGA-loving (hardly likely for those of that are European) or because we are racist and hate Arabs or because of safety fears.

We dislike KSA because of its appalling human rights record, including its own appalling racist treatment of immigrants from south Asia.

You deny being a KSA shill but you sure as hell try and twist the reasons for our opposition like one. 

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53 minutes ago, Pizza on Fire said:

Much to the disdain of the MAGA-loving, Arab-hating crowd of this forum, Jiddah will be the start and finish of the upcoming Dakar rally. It is so strange to see that the yachting community suddenly went berserk about "safety" in Jiddah while everybody else that will crisscross the KSA isn't batting an eye!!!

I imagine that every car, truck or motorcycle taking part in the rally will be escorted by an armored Humvee full of marines, an Apache helicopter and a B2 Stealth Bomber just in case the "terrorists" attack… :D     

 

And the Dakar is very famous for being one of the safest events... absolutely not.

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12 hours ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

I still find it extraordinary that ETNZ used a homemade AI system in AC35 to develop a hugely superior boat against a team owned and sponsored by one of the biggest software companies in the world. Even Oracle's starting software let them down on several occasions ... shit, I've got a Garmin watch and some freeware on a cheap tablet that leads me to the line perfectly every time*

* the software is bang on, I'm often not

Oracle wasn’t in AC 36. 
 

Dans comments were during 36 not from Bermuda 

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2 hours ago, Pizza on Fire said:

Much to the disdain of the MAGA-loving, Arab-hating crowd of this forum, Jiddah will be the start and finish of the upcoming Dakar rally. It is so strange to see that the yachting community suddenly went berserk about "safety" in Jiddah while everybody else that will crisscross the KSA isn't batting an eye!!!

I imagine that every car, truck or motorcycle taking part in the rally will be escorted by an armored Humvee full of marines, an Apache helicopter and a B2 Stealth Bomber just in case the "terrorists" attack… :D     

 

I don't think safety is the issue. Having a western event in a brutal dictatorship that treats women like possessions is more of what it's about. Aren't Arabs the same race as most of us anyway? Can you be racist toward your own race?

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36 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

I don't think safety is the issue. Having a western event in a brutal dictatorship that treats women like possessions is more of what it's about. Aren't Arabs the same race as most of us anyway? Can you be racist toward your own race?

If it’s so “brutal” why aren’t western governments doing something about it?

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2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Don't try that anti-Arab crap again. Most of us are not opposed to KSA as a venue because we are MAGA-loving (hardly likely for those of that are European) or because we are racist and hate Arabs or because of safety fears.

We dislike KSA because of its appalling human rights record, including its own appalling racist treatment of immigrants from south Asia.

You deny being a KSA shill but you sure as hell try and twist the reasons for our opposition like one. 

Many countries have appalling human rights track records. Yet they still host sporting events. China, Russia, the US. 

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3 hours ago, Pizza on Fire said:

Much to the disdain of the MAGA-loving, Arab-hating crowd of this forum, Jiddah will be the start and finish of the upcoming Dakar rally. It is so strange to see that the yachting community suddenly went berserk about "safety" in Jiddah while everybody else that will crisscross the KSA isn't batting an eye!!!

I imagine that every car, truck or motorcycle taking part in the rally will be escorted by an armored Humvee full of marines, an Apache helicopter and a B2 Stealth Bomber just in case the "terrorists" attack… :D     

 

yes and no.

in sporting terms this is a long event, ~3 weeks, but still nothing compared to AC.

if the dakar race drivers had to move their family there for 2/3 years then it would be a different vibe.

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43 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

I thought they used AI to help build their AC50 too? They certainly referred to the "simulator" a lot

For Bermuda it was not really a question about if they used the later AI or not, it was more a question of 'how much' sophisticated the onboard software was, with the follow-Herbie's-dot on a tablet setup. A case of the system being more 'taught' than already self-optimized - and it then teaching the sailors what to do while racing. Almost like the sailors having AI :)

 

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The simulator Dan and company built/used was gomboc https://sumtozero.com/.  They got an AI module that works with the gomboc software from McKinsey.  McKinsey is a interesting company they got there hands in everything (and not all good).  https://www.mckinsey.com/business-functions/mckinsey-digital/how-we-help-clients/flying-across-the-sea-propelled-by-ai

 

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23 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Many countries have appalling human rights track records. Yet they still host sporting events. China, Russia, the US. 

I'm here to learn.

For what period of time do you equate the appalling human rights track records of China, Russia, the US?

A.  1776 onward
B.  1865 onward
C.  1914 onward
D.  1941 onward
E.  Custom period of your choice.
 
Help me out here.
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3 minutes ago, pluscount said:

I'm here to learn.

For what period of time do you equate the appalling human rights track records of China, Russia, the US?

A.  1776 onward
B.  1865 onward
C.  1914 onward
D.  1941 onward
E.  Custom period of your choice.
 
Help me out here.

Ask those who bleat about human rights records.

Personally I don’t give a shit about countries and their human rights records.

Im here for sport not politics.

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4 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Ask those who bleat about human rights records.

Personally I don’t give a shit about countries and their human rights records.

May I quote you again "Many countries have appalling human rights track records. Yet they still host sporting events. China, Russia, the US."

First you bleat, then you un-bleat?  My bad for being confused.

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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Ask those who bleat about human rights records.

Personally I don’t give a shit about countries and their human rights records.

Im here for sport not politics.

If you are too stupid to be unable to understand how dodgy regimes use sport to clean their international image, you should STFU. Why do you think there was state sponsored drugs cheating in Russia? It was to enhance their international reputation and also to sell a lie of Russian superiority to their own people. 
 

KSA, their human rights record make the abuses in countries such as China look minor. How about abuse and suppression of women, with them treated as property, prevented from leaving home without a man and not even being allowed to drive? That’s on top of all the things you will probably claim others do. By attracting major international sports events, KSA is saying to its people that there isn’t a problem because if there was, those events wouldn’t come.

If you want to seperate sport and politics, don’t allow major sport to take place in countries that use it for political purposes 

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4 hours ago, SimonN said:

If you are too stupid to be unable to understand how dodgy regimes use sport to clean their international image, you should STFU. Why do you think there was state sponsored drugs cheating in Russia? It was to enhance their international reputation and also to sell a lie of Russian superiority to their own people. 
 

KSA, their human rights record make the abuses in countries such as China look minor. How about abuse and suppression of women, with them treated as property, prevented from leaving home without a man and not even being allowed to drive? That’s on top of all the things you will probably claim others do. By attracting major international sports events, KSA is saying to its people that there isn’t a problem because if there was, those events wouldn’t come.

If you want to seperate sport and politics, don’t allow major sport to take place in countries that use it for political purposes 

Blah blah blah. Who gives a fuck! Western governments turn a blind eye, they don't care. It is NOT the responsibility of sports teams to resolve political issues when governments refuse to.

China, Russia, the US, the UK, South Africa, Australia, NZ, they all have bad track records of human rights abuses, and depending on who you talk to, it is still happening in many of those countries today, yet you single out Saudi Arabia because it suits your little narrative that Arabs are murderers and terrorists.

China, Russia, the US, they've all held major sporting events even though they have appalling human rights records, but your answer to that is "Well they're bad but not as bad and we're better people than them so its ok" 

If you don't allow sport in countries with bad track records of human rights abuses than all sport must cease.

And NO, sport should not cease because of peoples political opinions.

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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Blah blah blah. Who gives a fuck! Western governments turn a blind eye, they don't care. It is NOT the responsibility of sports teams to resolve political issues when governments refuse to.

China, Russia, the US, the UK, South Africa, Australia, NZ, they all have bad track records of human rights abuses, and depending on who you talk to, it is still happening in many of those countries today, yet you single out Saudi Arabia because it suits your little narrative that Arabs are murderers and terrorists.

China, Russia, the US, they've all held major sporting events even though they have appalling human rights records, but your answer to that is "Well they're bad but not as bad and we're better people than them so its ok" 

If you don't allow sport in countries with bad track records of human rights abuses than all sport must cease.

And NO, sport should not cease because of peoples political opinions.

sport and politics don't mix? good luck with that one.

I tell you what.

if Jeddah is announced as the venue in March, you will see plenty of people giving a f#$&.

 

 

you're from new zealand right, I'm from the place that got this sport and politics mixed up.  

 

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26 minutes ago, E2nO said:

"Plenty" of entries in the AC 37 are reported here: https://www.sail-world.com/news/244375/Americas-Cup-Encouraging-level-of-AC37-entries

What a surprise - I wonder how many of them we will see at the starting line ...

How many will actually pay the $1M that is due in 7 days?

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3 hours ago, Chobani Sailor said:

How many will actually pay the $1M that is due in 7 days?

I believe it is seven days after the challenge has been verified and accepted. So that might take a while ... especially if you are not really interested to get you number of entries down ...

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21 minutes ago, E2nO said:

I believe it is seven days after the challenge has been verified and accepted. So that might take a while ... especially if you are not really interested to get you number of entries down ...

My mistake - a first installment of US$1M by wire transfer direct to the bank account nominated by ACE by no later than seven days following the written confirmation of acceptance.....

 

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6 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

My mistake - a first installment of US$1M by wire transfer direct to the bank account nominated by ACE by no later than seven days following the written confirmation of acceptance.....

 

I also cannot recall that this time there would be any application fee that had to be sent in with the challenge (or within any reasonable time thereafter).

So I guess there could be some yacht clubs that just "preemptively" challenged - perhaps to just be "attractive" for any other potentially racing-team that by some chance has the money - but not yet any club to go with :-)

Anyway, this all plays very well in the venue selection process - just makes the "bride"  much nicer ...

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