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The AC 37 has started, news and rumours


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3 hours ago, Zaal said:

I think the main issue is the one boat program. That's the real game changer. They could organize a lot of ACWS series, in a lot of different countries, different locations, sailing with a "mini" AC75. Something that will allow design teams to develop and test new solutions, keep the sailors sharp, and increase the visibility of the event. It would be less expensive than the two boat program, and could allow new teams to participate. Something like the 34th AC, with the AC72 for the Challengers Series and the Match, and the AC45 for the ACWS. 

I think this will happen and Ray Davies has already made a case for the youth boat. It would be cool to see a bunch of te kahu lookalikes contest a World Series. 

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I’m not calling this out for the sake of ostracizing you, nor to play PC police on a forum that is notorious for the opposite of that. I could just hit ignore, delete or whatever. I’m calling this out

Hilarious to watch Kiwis who've been around since AC35 twist themselves into intellectual pretzels to give ETNZ a pass on what they screamed bloody murder about when Oracle did it. Even Oracle di

The hypocrisy extends back to AC32 but I get your point.  The claim that the Kiwi’s care about sportsmanship and fairness was exposed as BS long ago.  WetHog  

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13 hours ago, d2ba said:

(And no Switzerland is not an emerging nation in the AC, and no the Alinghi syndicate could not go and mount the challenge from a Yacht club in an emerging country )

Sure they can. Money can walk.  Mount a challenge from an emerging country and you can bring half of your best guys and have half grinders from the local country. There is no nationality restriction on the source of funds. 

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6 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I can't imagine either of us limiting our screaming and yelling in support of our team.:D

That was a specific request from my neighbours to Grand Dalton

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16 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Here is what Jack Griffin (Cup Experience) Wrote:

The announcements would go something like this:
  • There will be a multi-challenger AC in 2024 in a venue to be announced.
  • It will be sailed in AC75's, with some improvements described in a new version of the AC75 Class Rule.
  • The Constructed in Country requirement will be relatively easy to meet, a bit like the rule for the AC50's in 2017. New challengers from any country will be able to buy and compete in any of the existing AC75's, and build a new one.
  • There will be an AC Match in 2022 on the Solent, under mutual consent, between INEOS Team UK and Team New Zealand.  
  • The loser of the 2022 match will immediately present a challenge for the following, multi-challenger match, in the expectation of being the CoR for the 2024 match.
  • A term sheet for the protocol for 2024 will be released in the coming weeks, allowing prospective challengers to know the conditions.
  • Around the 2022 event will be wonderful hospitality opportunities for prospective challengers to entertain and woo sponsors and major donors.
  • The new version of the AC75 Class Rule, to be used in 2024, will be available by the end of 2021.
  • A design package will be available to prospective challengers.
  • A design symposium will be held during the 2022 event, to help 2024 challengers come up to speed.
I hope this is relatively on target. It would be a masterstroke!
 
If they pull this sort off thing off I am all for it!

Interesting possibilities.

I'm thinking though, that a shitload could go wrong there if the new Defender/CoR detente fades - which is almost certainly probable. Interesting times ahead.

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When I read Jack Griffin's newsletter, I thought of something that had never occurred to me before.  I was at first baffled as to how they could agree to AC75s for two matches.  Then I realized it was because there would only be the two of them in the next match.

So here's what struck me.  A single club cannot hold onto the Cup because any club can challenge for it.  But two clubs can keep it bottled up between them forever if they are of like minds.  All they have to do is be each other's hip pocket challenger and not allow any other clubs to compete.  That is totally within the letter of the DoG, because it says no future challenges can be considered until the current one is decided.  So it's not like there is a queue of challenges that have to be considered in turn.

Obviously, if two clubs were to go down that route, the America's Cup would quickly lose its cachet and the financial rewards from hosting the match would dissipate.  But it would be possible.

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They have announced protocol in 8 months but that it will be in AC 75s so presumably existing teams can fire up right away with 2 boat testing in their existing boats since they are not subject to a protocol at this time.  If I was Ineos, I would be making multiple foil packages and hacking the heck out of Rita for the next 6-7 months

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3 hours ago, Enzedel92 said:

Sailors are such pussies these days - does Ben have hi-lights in his hair or is this picture photoshopped?  

 

For fucks sake.......

Well at least they show some decorum and take their hats off whilst indoors...

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qk13uibpyipd38wcvbii.thumb.jpeg.490abd8d8587d096d2e3622786ce36e9.jpeg

 

 

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10 hours ago, sfigone said:

So can you make it a condition of entry that the winner will keep the cup at RNZYS, will defend in AC75s, will defend in Auckland and use ETNZs boat and crew?

I get it that having continuity may attract more new entrants as they know their investment is not a one off... But i don't think it is right to try to direct from the grave.  They should just say it is their intension to continue with the boats.

 

If this clause in question is not for the 1:1 but for a multi challenger Cup, the challengers can just pretend to agree and, once they've won, write their own protocol, using 90ft LWL trimarans.
It's a bit like asking the job applicant if she intends to become pregnant in the future. She is allowed to lie, but it won't make the question and the try any more better.
 

3 hours ago, Xlot said:

This would be no masterstroke, Jack, it would be a disgrace - especially coming from the team that told us it will be extra DoG honoring.

(But isn't this what they all say... Oracle anyone???)

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I find this here quite interesting too:

A single Event Authority will be appointed to be responsible for the conduct of all racing and the management of commercial activities relating to AC37.

This is good! Luna Rossa definitly in my view too many rights this time as CoR and shut out other Challengers. Their stunts on Racing/Not Racing under NZ's Level 2 would not have happened if we had this "Single Event Authority" for AC36!

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1 hour ago, C. Spackler said:

I like having a nationality clause, but the 100% restriction and retroactive timetable seems like a simply ploy to restrict salaries. 

 
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25-30 team members only, design, build boat and mast and from that pick your sailing crew.

(Sails, standing rigging, running rigging etc can be outsourced)

Boat must be capable to sail in 30-0 knots and do a round the Isle of Wight style course.

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7 minutes ago, Basiliscus said:

When I read Jack Griffin's newsletter, I thought of something that had never occurred to me before.  I was at first baffled as to how they could agree to AC75s for two matches.  Then I realized it was because there would only be the two of them in the next match.

So here's what struck me.  A single club cannot hold onto the Cup because any club can challenge for it.  But two clubs can keep it bottled up between them forever if they are of like minds.  All they have to do is be each other's hip pocket challenger and not allow any other clubs to compete.  That is totally within the letter of the DoG, because it says no future challenges can be considered until the current one is decided.  So it's not like there is a queue of challenges that have to be considered in turn.

Obviously, if two clubs were to go down that route, the America's Cup would quickly lose its cachet and the financial rewards from hosting the match would dissipate.  But it would be possible.

Would the NYSC being interested in hearing an antitrust lawsuit, from aggrieved would-be challengers?

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This paragraph is unenforceable:

"It has been agreed the AC75 Class shall remain the class of yacht for the next two America’s Cup cycles, and agreement to this is a condition of entry. "

The winner of the event , and subsequent defender will have signed that agreement as a condition of entry.

However, they can line up anyone as a challenger and the challenger may not have signed such agreement .  The DoG allows Challenger to select the boat,

So if AM wins and wants to go back to displacement yachts, they line up a new challenger who issues a challenge in displacement yachts.  

The event cannot sue the challenger because (a) The new challenger didnt sign the agreement and (b) DoG says the challenger specifies the boat.

 

But Im splitting hairs because all of the current challengers want to saty with the AC75,

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12 minutes ago, Basiliscus said:

When I read Jack Griffin's newsletter, I thought of something that had never occurred to me before.  I was at first baffled as to how they could agree to AC75s for two matches.  Then I realized it was because there would only be the two of them in the next match.

So here's what struck me.  A single club cannot hold onto the Cup because any club can challenge for it.  But two clubs can keep it bottled up between them forever if they are of like minds.  All they have to do is be each other's hip pocket challenger and not allow any other clubs to compete.  That is totally within the letter of the DoG, because it says no future challenges can be considered until the current one is decided.  So it's not like there is a queue of challenges that have to be considered in turn.

Obviously, if two clubs were to go down that route, the America's Cup would quickly lose its cachet and the financial rewards from hosting the match would dissipate.  But it would be possible.

Indeed, a frightening prospect. 

Although... During AC33 there were similar ideas discussed hereabouts, and I learned one legal principle - it went kind of like this: The execution of a trust shall not lead to bizarre results. So, a match ping-pong might at least be challenged before the NYSC. 

By the way, what are you  doing in a non-technical thread? Beware of the (cess)pitfalls.

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

Would the NYSC being interested in hearing an antitrust lawsuit, from aggrieved would-be challengers?

I don't think the anti trust rules apply, and even if they did the American anti trust laws are surprisingly weak. Essentially they only need consider the effect on the consumer and not prospective competitors. 

This is how Amazon have been allowed to behave the way they do.

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19 minutes ago, Basiliscus said:

A single club cannot hold onto the Cup because any club can challenge for it.  But two clubs can keep it bottled up between them forever if they are of like minds.  All they have to do is be each other's hip pocket challenger and not allow any other clubs to compete.  That is totally within the letter of the DoG, because it says no future challenges can be considered until the current one is decided.  So it's not like there is a queue of challenges that have to be considered in turn.

 But it would be possible.

Possible but it would not respect: "this Cup is donated upon the condition that it shall be preserved as a perpetual challenge Cup for friendly competition between foreign countries.", it would be between two YCs .

Also, it would not respect the "Any organized yacht Club of a foreign country..."

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9 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I find this here quite interesting too:

A single Event Authority will be appointed to be responsible for the conduct of all racing and the management of commercial activities relating to AC37.

This is good! Luna Rossa definitly in my view too many rights this time as CoR and shut out other Challengers. Their stunts on Racing/Not Racing under NZ's Level 2 would not have happened if we had this "Single Event Authority" for AC36!

If there will be no other challenger, it will really be a good improvement, I see :D :D

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This clause is interesting.........

Did ETNZ think the wording through carefully enough. 100% nationality EXCEPT you can poach as many kiwis as you like. Here is the wording:

 

A new Crew Nationality Rule will require 100% of the race crew for each competitor to either be a passport holder of the country the team’s yacht club as at 19 March 2021 or to have been physically present .. in Auckland, the venue of the AC36 Events, for two of the previous three years prior to 18 March 2021

In other words, a kiwi professional sailor just needs to be acting on behalf of a challenging yacht club for 2 years and they can live in Auckland and sail for the challenger. 

Gentlemen I offer as first item on today's auction this very desirable Burling/Tuke. In superb condition and with great provenance and I must start the bidding at $40 million ..

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20 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Interesting possibilities.

I'm thinking though, that a shitload could go wrong there if the new Defender/CoR detente fades - which is almost certainly probable. Interesting times ahead.

Yes, something could go wrong but if they do it and it is well received around Europe especially I would not be surprised if the CSS being brought there for AC38.

I agree with Sir Ian Taylor of Animation Research (he brought us these amazing Virtual Graphics) who said very little has been reported outside of New Zealand because the America's Cup is such a niche Event. If you have a chance putting this thing on a Global Stage so everyone can be a part of it (and Europe has certainly a big Market) you are going to have to try. You may not get another chance.

Dalts & de Nora are pretty fortunate having Sir Jim Ratcliffe who is apparently willing to do this and fund the whole thing as well.

Otherwise the Cup will stay forever a niche Event.

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9 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Indeed, a frightening prospect. 

Although... During AC33 there were similar ideas discussed hereabouts, and I learned one legal principle - it went kind of like this: The execution of a trust shall not lead to bizarre results. So, a match ping-pong might at least be challenged before the NYSC. 

By the way, what are you  doing in a non-technical thread? Beware of the (cess)pitfalls.

Would it not reach a stage where the courts would find against this and just remove the rights to the Cup??

Hate to say it, but to see it hi-jacked for ego $$$$ would be rather ironic, a true reflection on the world.  It permeates everywhere.:lol::lol:

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15 hours ago, Chapter Four said:

Nationality:

...

Outeridge is stuck with Aus as far as I know, unless picked up by an "emerging nation"

...

Would have thought NO has done at least 2 of the last 3 years in NZ ;-)

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Thank you, we have $40 million from the corner ......Do I hear $ 42 million...Ah wait!  We have a telephone bid for $45 million and we are looking for $47 million...over 3 years this is less than $ 8 million a year, you cannot buy a half way decent Tight End for $ 8 million......do I have  a bid for  $47 million?

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27 minutes ago, Basiliscus said:

When I read Jack Griffin's newsletter, I thought of something that had never occurred to me before.  I was at first baffled as to how they could agree to AC75s for two matches.  Then I realized it was because there would only be the two of them in the next match.

So here's what struck me.  A single club cannot hold onto the Cup because any club can challenge for it.  But two clubs can keep it bottled up between them forever if they are of like minds.  All they have to do is be each other's hip pocket challenger and not allow any other clubs to compete.  That is totally within the letter of the DoG, because it says no future challenges can be considered until the current one is decided.  So it's not like there is a queue of challenges that have to be considered in turn.

Obviously, if two clubs were to go down that route, the America's Cup would quickly lose its cachet and the financial rewards from hosting the match would dissipate.  But it would be possible.

While the deeds of trust are almost always read by the four corners, if something as extreme as that were to go down I think the courts would eventually rule that the holder had failed their fiduciary duty.

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5 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Otherwise the Cup will stay forever a niche Event.

And what is wrong with that?

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

And what is wrong with that?

I think it's not good. An Event like the America's Cup which is so prestigeous and has such a rich history should have more Coverage around the World.

Think about this: The Tour de France has more TV Coverage than the AmCup? Seriously! Something is badly wrong here.

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3 hours ago, NZK said:

It's guys like NO and Slingsby that could be screwed plus any members of INEOSand ETNZ that may have been thinking of jumping ship...

Safe to assume they’d be covered by the exception Alinghi is sure to negotiate. For the balance of the crew, EB stated there’s a new foiling generation that has grown on the Geneva Lake

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1 minute ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I think it's not good. An Event like the America's Cup which is so prestigeous and has such a rich history should have more Coverage around the World.

Think about this: The Tour de France has more TV Coverage than the AmCup? Seriously! Something is badly wrong here.

Seriously? Oh, the humanity.

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2 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Cunts. Total fucking circle jerk.

Watch your bloody pressure, mate. ;-)

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3 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Cunts. Total fucking circle jerk.

Yes and No! We'll have to see how the Negotiations with the NZ Government go. Money just doesn't talk, it screams! If Dalts can keep the Team afload doing it he will do it I'll promise you that. 

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@Sailbydate

Interesting comments by RNZYS Commodore Aaron Young on the National Requirement

"The America's Cup is a sporting event between nations and we're trying to take that back a little bit to tradition and what the America's Cup has been about.

"No one's asked for it particularly, but we feel that's the right way to go to enhance the event."

I am with him on this and so is Dalts!

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2 hours ago, DA-WOODY said:

Rumors from a Sail Loft Scientist:

The 2 Skin Sails were The CAT's ASS for the 36th AC

Many now being ordered for the MAXI Class & WALLY YACHTS

The development has continued throughout and The Next Generation will be a part of the Next CUP

Watch for the introduction of The 4 Skin Sails to be introduced at the next BBS in Frisco

Surely, this is a joke, right?

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Typically shoddy NZ Herald. Dalts doesn't confirm the rumours (next AC round Isle of Wight), at best he confirms there are rumours.

If it happens it will be a dog n pony show (as Paddywackery says), not an an AC match.

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2 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Yes and No! We'll have to see how the Negotiations with the NZ Government go. Money just doesn't talk, it screams! If Dalts can keep the Team afload doing it he will do it I'll promise you that. 

Well the way it looks to me is he is trying to sew up control of the next two defenses without necessarily having to win the next one.  You're ok with that? Cos I sure as shit ain't.

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Just now, dg_sailingfan said:

@Sailbydate

Interesting comments by RNZYS Commodore Aaron Young on the National Requirement

"The America's Cup is a sporting event between nations and we're trying to take that back a little bit to tradition and what the America's Cup has been about.

"No one's asked for it particularly, but we feel that's the right way to go to enhance the event."

I am with him on this and so is Dalts!

Unfortunately the Commodore and GD are incorrect about their interpretation of what the original Cup was all about, IMO.

It was a competition for yachts, to see which country had the fastest design. The sailors' nationalities were not at all relevant.

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I think the interesting thing in all of this is how damn desperate ETNZ must be for cash to consider this.

Have a hard time believing Dalts would let Ratty buy himself into the match if they weren't in pretty dire straits.

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Be great to see a French team and fingers crossed Franck Gammas will be in

Tip and Shaft

What about other possible entrants? Recently asked the question, Ernesto Bertarelli, boss of Alinghi, did not rule out a return of the Swiss challenge. Several of our experts believe that Stars & Stripes had to give up before the 36th Cup kicked off, remain interested.

"We are going to have some surprises with new teams who are going to appeal to new commercial markets some very good teams with the means to win., contends Franck Cammas who is sure of his proposition, but without saying more. "That is further proof that this edition was popular and that the Cup remains attractive and addictive for those who have had a try " Including for Cammas himself who is again in the campaign to find funding: "Team France has been restructured, we have quality people, including a new president [Antoine de Véricourt], we're starting to have some interesting meetings to fund a project with a very long-term vision."

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The best result would be the next challenge is NZ vs Ineos only.

The Brits win, accept LR as next challenger, tell Dalts to go pound sand.

Taking a risk that the Poms, plus Radcliffe, will play nice on the off chance they win would be a dumb ass call.

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

Unfortunately the Commodore and GD are incorrect about their interpretation of what the original Cup was all about, IMO.

It was a competition for yachts, to see which country had the fastest design. The sailors' nationalities were not at all relevant.

Correct.

What exactly constituted being a representative of your country has varied widely over the years. It was not uncommon for some challengers to sail across the Atlantic with minimal crews and pick up their full race crew in the US. Designers, boats, sails and even the money behind the campaign have all been tightly restricted or total free for alls as the defender and mood of the times dictated.

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4 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

@Sailbydate

Interesting comments by RNZYS Commodore Aaron Young on the National Requirement

"The America's Cup is a sporting event between nations and we're trying to take that back a little bit to tradition and what the America's Cup has been about.

"No one's asked for it particularly, but we feel that's the right way to go to enhance the event."

I am with him on this and so is Dalts!

Presumably he's talking about the 100% nationality. His interpretation of back to tradition is incorrect, as others have pointed out.

It is simply self interest on the part of the defender and COR who are both the strongest nations able to fulfill this requirement.

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1 hour ago, Dave S said:

Old-school thinking. Now they spend almost all their time out of the water, hulls are just not as important as they used to be; the big gains have already been made, and everyone's seen what works. Expect the hull designs to be a lot closer next time, the real gains are going to be in the rest of the package.

It makes quite a difference to view from the outside a project rather than from the inside. Kiwis will optimise the project, which will be a 'klick' (it's on fashion nowadays!! ) faster than competition 

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6 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Well the way it looks to me is he is trying to sew up control of the next two defenses without necessarily having to win the next one.  You're ok with that? Cos I sure as shit ain't.

Oh, come on! What Grant is doing here is "Peanuts" compared what the New York Yacht Club did for 132 years.

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3 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Cunts. Total fucking circle jerk.

First time poster, long time lurker.

This is the AC and right now, we are seeing the leverage game. GD is strengthening his hand to get significant funding dollars out of the NZ Govt and Auckland Council to secure the event in NZ in 2024. By keeping this DOG match option open, it will bends the govt over a barrel. Mark my words, my prediction is the cup proper will be held in AKL around the same time in 2024, about the same time as the underground train station opens. It gives enough time for COVID to fuck off and for tourists to start travelling again. For that, we need time. 

between now and then, you’ll see ACWS events in various cities for various cups prior to the challenger series - and I bet in 2022, we will see a regatta in the Isle of Wight. But not for the AC. I’d suggest their will be a fundraising event which rewards INEOS. If LRPP and NYYC enter then they will sail too. I expect Stars and Stripes to enter AC37. And Alinghi will be there - Berterelli is a cunt of the highest order and this nationality rule effectively calls him out - GD is saying ‘win it without buying it, or fuck off’. Guaranteed he’ll have a crack and BB will be involved in some way as he loves EB’s cash (hence all his comments recently trying to ratfuck ETNZ).

Sweden, China, Japan and probably the Aussies will put teams up - the costs were called out this cycle and ETNZ look to be trying to find ways to increase the competitors. levelling the playing field with AC75 design package and a one boat build helps do that. We need more teams - AC36 suffered without more challengers. The racing we saw was first class and eventually the performance levels out. Then it becomes a proper match racing race - the match demonstrated how good the racing is when teams are competitive. 
 

All in all, enjoy the next few months and bullshit reports and fear mongering. But look at the bigger picture - It’s about leverage and levelling the playing field.

that’s a good thing.

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Just now, dg_sailingfan said:

Oh, come on! What Grant is doing here is "Peanuts" compared what the New York Yacht Club did for 132 years.

You beat your wife to death, so its ok if I break my wife's arm?

Sounds legit. 

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Just now, dg_sailingfan said:

Oh, come on! What Grant is doing here is "Peanuts" compared what the New York Yacht Club did for 132 years.

He is giving them a good run for their money now.

Maybe he thinks there is another cup for biggest AC douchebag.

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5 minutes ago, marlowe said:

Presumably he's talking about the 100% nationality. His interpretation of back to tradition is incorrect, as others have pointed out.

It is simply self interest on the part of the defender and COR who are both the strongest nations able to fulfill this requirement.

The good old USA and Italy are hardly affected. France has lots of goods sailors. So do the Aussies, seems to be the nation hit the hardest is Switzerland 

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1 minute ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Oh, come on! What Grant is doing here is "Peanuts" compared what the New York Yacht Club did for 132 years.

Actually, I would say it's right in line, though I don't think the NYYC was ever as bad as it's made out to be.

And this is worse in context. The NYYC gradually made it more and more fair to challengers over the course of time as the spirit of the event changed from "see if anyone can duplicate the America's feat" to a true even stakes match to finally a format that actually favors the challengers.

ETNZ is actually moving backwards and trying to make the event more tilted towards the defender than it has been in nearly 40 years. The proposed nationality rule is far more stringent than anything that was seen even in the 90s.

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1 hour ago, Basiliscus said:

When I read Jack Griffin's newsletter, I thought of something that had never occurred to me before.  I was at first baffled as to how they could agree to AC75s for two matches.  Then I realized it was because there would only be the two of them in the next match.

So here's what struck me.  A single club cannot hold onto the Cup because any club can challenge for it.  But two clubs can keep it bottled up between them forever if they are of like minds.  All they have to do is be each other's hip pocket challenger and not allow any other clubs to compete.  That is totally within the letter of the DoG, because it says no future challenges can be considered until the current one is decided.  So it's not like there is a queue of challenges that have to be considered in turn.

Obviously, if two clubs were to go down that route, the America's Cup would quickly lose its cachet and the financial rewards from hosting the match would dissipate.  But it would be possible.

I posited this on a different forum hours ago. AND, it doesn't even require money. ETNZ can team up with Senegal and race dingys in perpetuity.   Pocket challenge. Obey the rules of the DoG.  No nation can ever interfere. The cup can be stolen. 

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14 minutes ago, idontwan2know said:

I think the interesting thing in all of this is how damn desperate ETNZ must be for cash to consider this.

Have a hard time believing Dalts would let Ratty buy himself into the match if they weren't in pretty dire straits.

I think the biggest issue is a repeat of 2003 where EB bought the heart and soul of ETNZ. He needs cash and he needs it now. He’s trying to contractually nail down all his key staff. 

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1 minute ago, mako23 said:

I think the biggest issue is a repeat of 2003 where EB bought the heart and soul of ETNZ. He needs cash and he needs it now. He’s trying to contractually nail down all his key staff. 

If all these dodgy rumours are true, id much rather see etnz fold.

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22 minutes ago, marlowe said:

Typically shoddy NZ Herald. Dalts doesn't confirm the rumours (next AC round Isle of Wight), at best he confirms there are rumours.

If it happens it will be a dog n pony show (as Paddywackery says), not an an AC match.

Exactly all he says is that it is on the cards, i.e. an option. 
 

Edit: I think he is ramping up pressure on the Government and Auckland Council. 

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5 minutes ago, mako23 said:

The good old USA and Italy are hardly affected. France has lots of goods sailors. So do the Aussies, seems to be the nation hit the hardest is Switzerland 

Sure USA, Italy and some others could put together a crew. But NZ and UK have by far the biggest depths of talent to draw on.

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4 minutes ago, Blitzkrieg9 said:

I posited this on a different forum hours ago. AND, it doesn't even require money. ETNZ can team up with Senegal and race dingys in perpetuity.   Pocket challenge. Obey the rules of the DoG.  No nation can ever interfere. The cup can be stolen. 

Other posters disagree out of several reasons stated in previous posts. There is a bit of DoG language not supporting ping-pong challenges, and there are legal rules that could prevent them too.

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3 minutes ago, mako23 said:

I think the biggest issue is a repeat of 2003 where EB bought the heart and soul of ETNZ. He needs cash and he needs it now. He’s trying to contractually nail down all his key staff. 

He's not trying to nail them down contractually at all. He has just made it impossible for them to leave, or any other Kiwi sailor to find work on another team.

Just a complete dick move, as expected.

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7 minutes ago, idontwan2know said:

Actually, I would say it's right in line, though I don't think the NYYC was ever as bad as it's made out to be.

And this is worse in context. The NYYC gradually made it more and more fair to challengers over the course of time as the spirit of the event changed from "see if anyone can duplicate the America's feat" to a true even stakes match to finally a format that actually favors the challengers.

ETNZ is actually moving backwards and trying to make the event more tilted towards the defender than it has been in nearly 40 years. The proposed nationality rule is far more stringent than anything that was seen even in the 90s.

I like the nationality rule, I’ve never agreed with boats filled with hired sailors from around the world.

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2 minutes ago, mako23 said:

I think the biggest issue is a repeat of 2003 where EB bought the heart and soul of ETNZ. He needs cash and he needs it now. He’s trying to contractually nail down all his key staff. 

Beg to differ: we are no longer in 2003 with IACCs, where an experienced afterguard could lead boat design and construction. And now, it’s open season on design personnel, you can bet that part of ETNZ is going to be plundered 

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5 hours ago, Enzedel92 said:

Sailors are such pussies these days - does Ben have hi-lights in his hair or is this picture photoshopped?  

 

For fucks sake.......

It has an HDR (high dynamic range) filter on the picture.  It accentuates tonal differences and can make it cartoonish (no personal jab to Ben).

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2 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Other posters disagree out of several reasons stated in previous posts. There is a bit of DoG language not supporting ping-pong challenges, and there are legal rules that could prevent them too.

I think the biggest drawback would be rather than the world celebrating the holder of the cup, they would be ostracised in the sailing world. This would a bigger deterance than any legal challenge. Well I hope it would, but the desire to hold on seems to be poisoning ETNZ, so who knows.

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Well at least they show some decorum and take their hats off whilst indoors...

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qk13uibpyipd38wcvbii.thumb.jpeg.490abd8d8587d096d2e3622786ce36e9.jpeg

 

 

Cool story for you.  I was a Cavalry Officer in the US Army.  On many occasions we wear a felt Stetson (go watch Apocalypse Now, or We Were Soldiers)...  I was once told to remove my "cover" indoors... I told that ranking officer from a different division to go fuck himself and that if he wanted me to remove my Stetson he would have to remove it himself.    

After quite a few "discussions"...  the ranking officer appiligized to me!!!  A Cavalry Stetson, in the US Army, as part of the uniform, is authorized to be worn indoors. I'll edit this with a picture. 

20210319_172851.jpg

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2 minutes ago, idontwan2know said:

Actually, I would say it's right in line, though I don't think the NYYC was ever as bad as it's made out to be.

And this is worse in context. The NYYC gradually made it more and more fair to challengers over the course of time as the spirit of the event changed from "see if anyone can duplicate the America's feat" to a true even stakes match to finally a format that actually favors the challengers.

ETNZ is actually moving backwards and trying to make the event more tilted towards the defender than it has been in nearly 40 years. The proposed nationality rule is far more stringent than anything that was seen even in the 90s.

The nationality rule is totally the right thing to do. No more buying off Sailing Talent like Ernesto & Larry.

The 2003 Alinghi Challenge had only 3 Swiss Sailors in the 25-strong Sailing Team: Ernesto Bertarelli, Christian Karcher and Dominik Neidhardt and then they call themselves a National Team. Give me a break! That is ridiculous to say.
 

Alinghis 2007 Challenge had only one Swiss Sailor on the Race Boat SUI-100!

 

Opera Momentaufnahme_2021-03-19_222448_en.wikipedia.org.png

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2 minutes ago, mako23 said:

I like the nationality rule, I’ve never agreed with boats filled with hired sailors from around the world.

Fair enough, but that's not the tradition of the AC.

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1 minute ago, strider470 said:

Dalton this edition understood that with fair competition he almost lost the thing.

Sad, but true.

Now he will do anything he can get away with to hold on. To think he accused Bertelli of poor sportsmanship. Wanker.

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8 minutes ago, amc said:

Edit: I think he is ramping up pressure on the Government and Auckland Council. 

That’s exactly what I Think is happening. 

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2 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Dalton this edition understood that with fair competition he almost lost the thing.

Almost lost. It was 7-3. Pretty convincing!

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5 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Dalton this edition understood that with fair competition he almost lost the thing.

I think what’s happening is internal politics inside NZ. In short NZ govt give us more money or we’ll take our toys and play somewhere else.

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9 minutes ago, mako23 said:

I like the nationality rule, I’ve never agreed with boats filled with hired sailors from around the world.

Yes, I am with you. As I explained Alinghi had only 3 Swiss Sailors in their Team in 2003. That was cut down to 1 for 2007 in Ernesto. And Larry did the same thing. In 2010 only he & John Kostecki was on that giant Trimaran and in 2013 it was only Rome Kirby after Kostecki got jettisoned for Ben after 5 Races.

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7 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Dalton this edition understood that with fair competition he almost lost the thing.

Much the same as Ernie after 2007

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11 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Beg to differ: we are no longer in 2003 with IACCs, where an experienced afterguard could lead boat design and construction. And now, it’s open season on design personnel, you can bet that part of ETNZ is going to be plundered 

Think about it: in an American-style draft pick who would you choose, Burling or Bernasconi (Verdier’s not even worth mentioning, he’s off the scale)?

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I find this here quite interesting too:

A single Event Authority will be appointed to be responsible for the conduct of all racing and the management of commercial activities relating to AC37.

This is good! Luna Rossa definitly in my view too many rights this time as CoR and shut out other Challengers. Their stunts on Racing/Not Racing under NZ's Level 2 would not have happened if we had this "Single Event Authority" for AC36!

Yep. The ACE was just a puppet of ETNZ.  Same CEO.  Same chairman. Same legal team. Same PR team...  disgraceful.  The event authority, like the refs, are supposed to be a neutral 3rd party. Shame on ETNZ. Shame. 

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Nationality rules are good for ginning up the rooting interests of the handful of nations who can mount a respectable team.

They are bad for creating a compelling event with several competent teams, and it's certainly not good for the sport.

But I fully realize not all folks really care about those last two points.

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8 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Sad, but true.

Now he will do anything he can get away with to hold on. To think he accused Bertelli of poor sportsmanship. Wanker.

And BA whining about the secretive CoR?

 

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2 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Think about it: in an American-style draft pick who would you choose, Burling or Bernasconi?

To take nothing away from Bernasconi, Burling is on of those rare individuals who is an amazing sailor, with a stong grasp of design principles, spend heaps of time after sailing with the design team giving feedback exploring options. Probably NO would be a similar team member.

I feel like Burling would help make your design team look good? 

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15 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Almost lost. It was 7-3. Pretty convincing!

Not really.

They had a faster boat but if they'd taken 2 or 3 more days to figure out how to sail it better, the cup would be in the way to italy now.

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