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Il Moro in North Vancouver


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A white elephant if there ever was.

Has use as a movie prop boat I suppose.  Maybe something like Wind 2.

it would be hilarious to see them throw up a "Whomper" on one of those new foiling AC thingies.

Maybe the Matthew Modine character can design one based on an old transformer toy and test it in his bath tub.

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1 hour ago, Frank White said:

The boat lived down on the Alameda Estuary till last summer. There was an article in Latitude 38 about a crew that sailed it north from the SF Bay Area to Vancouver. Better men than I...

 

Not unless there are now two old Il Moro's in Vancouver.  There has been one here for at least 10 years.  It only comes out a couple of times a year (usually 'Round Bowen Island Race), although one summer it was racing in Wednesday nights at Royal Van YC.

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25 minutes ago, Expat Canuck said:

Not unless there are now two old Il Moro's in Vancouver.  There has been one here for at least 10 years.  It only comes out a couple of times a year (usually 'Round Bowen Island Race), although one summer it was racing in Wednesday nights at Royal Van YC.

Well, Gardini built 5 Il Moro's, so it makes sense that the one down here wanted to join its friend up north?

 

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30 minutes ago, Expat Canuck said:

Not unless there are now two old Il Moro's in Vancouver.  There has been one here for at least 10 years.  It only comes out a couple of times a year (usually 'Round Bowen Island Race), although one summer it was racing in Wednesday nights at Royal Van YC.

There is just the one Il Moro here. The one that did RBR was sent to SF area about 3 or 4 years ago to be sold by the owner as he bought another, bigger boat for use up here. After it did not sell, his crew returned to CA and brought her back up here last year, and now she is back sitting where she used to sit at Mosquito Creek.

Needs a full set of sails and a rigging refresh from what I hear, and with no racing in the future looming I doubt she will see the water again for quite some time.

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8 hours ago, climenuts said:

Came across this beauty in North Van at Mosquito Creek yesterday. Surprised they made it into the lift there.

Anybody know what's going on with it?

3M9H0gUIMKVEp0gLoyb0uD0jQQiHD5VQ5jq9_YE65AR-30zpIV3KEbxAWbgV1UBxok0sSbbLoljncZ8t3L4OYPHbvLhz-anW9FHshBq62E-unQazTccODONWNNeQWG072w04vwl6XIIa87LkCCdx9DQbM8-Dmd7JHDww18Rp6EesV3SJ-ShRGeGRvrxKA9JlCUQvDqn7NIxRqvZqsijLuk9zXCj25XhXBQpIbcCuA125O3mN6moaEnFvbj7a8N0CDhijNOP-CYvLZsvS7JW9nJFndB3wUaF4nlqYe79azPau2A_cZmOWbHnfhgZofcoKCBZtYiig5ZLDCMLJ__ghzXLUfcOFQoLrODgkvsgFpWbCKHRYGzNXnZ1yi98dHB3ym_OlMxZ66Kp9oXxyZxFlywQwitx5uKn5J1bCYc_MiRbqJZh84-0E0iB9cEjgkAof9j85MmudgOKxq4pc4Wqq2SVFB5EwZDpurFBFS70iQh8SZ8xw-QlNGYv4OvIIl-ojXFBX8MGpNU2ZQZrL4dR_7e28A1LHA2tFRy6BcVKvJ8YA3LB-KlnIXo99zrgKsWU0SUgC4zyd8pKpI7By16boRvAkMISR-cnqmOg9QSmzJYSLNEV3fO08AYAbo8qbhn3Aqgd0PKBbqBfNZy3oy1jXj8gq25FMOFmXTEOHBXrSIAzPI0SVM1nvIysVLKJxW5kkSGJpFF7FUZktRCcPKJ09chhn=w758-h1009-no?authuser=0

Piccy no workie?

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20 hours ago, Frank White said:

The boat lived down on the Alameda Estuary till last summer. There was an article in Latitude 38 about a crew that sailed it north from the SF Bay Area to Vancouver. Better men than I...

 

Talk about a pain mission.

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18 minutes ago, casc27 said:

Talk about a pain mission.

That boat is floating trouble. bankrupted 2 previous owners. Even Russian related olygarghs found it too expensive to operate.  her bilge pumps need to operate as true as the magnetic compasses if she is to remain afloat underway.

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Here is an actual pic of Il Moro sitting in Mosquito Creek

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Il_Moro_Challenge

Owned by a member of the Royal Vancouver Yacht Club.  Used to sail it around for fun and because he could. 

Always seemed to have a big smile and be enjoying himself when he took it out with his 25+ friends for Round Bowen or Easter Seals Charity Regattas. 

No one died, but I've heard it makes some scary noises.

Il Moro.jpg

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1 hour ago, Swanno said:

Looks kinda like an ugly Vo60? 

1st generation IACC boat.

Back when they were still experimenting with destroyer bows and rather caveman bulbs.

Which makes me wonder how valid VPP programs are if the presumably most advanced computer modelling back in the early 90's was telling them that within the confines of the IACC rule, a destroyer bow was better.

Yeah, there was the kiwi tandem keel boat (NZL 20?) that did quite well, but who knows how much of that was bow and how much was other stuff like the tandem foils or other parameters.

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20 hours ago, Ultraman said:

Here is an actual pic of Il Moro sitting in Mosquito Creek

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Il_Moro_Challenge

Owned by a member of the Royal Vancouver Yacht Club.  Used to sail it around for fun and because he could. 

Always seemed to have a big smile and be enjoying himself when he took it out with his 25+ friends for Round Bowen or Easter Seals Charity Regattas. 

No one died, but I've heard it makes some scary noises.

Il Moro.jpg

Those things could make scary noises at the dock!

Frightening but in  a fun sort of a way.

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9 hours ago, 12 metre said:

1st generation IACC boat.

Back when they were still experimenting with destroyer bows and rather caveman bulbs.

Which makes me wonder how valid VPP programs are if the presumably most advanced computer modelling back in the early 90's was telling them that within the confines of the IACC rule, a destroyer bow was better.

Yeah, there was the kiwi tandem keel boat (NZL 20?) that did quite well, but who knows how much of that was bow and how much was other stuff like the tandem foils or other parameters.

VPP programs use ensemble data from existing hullforms to extrapolate / interpolate the new hullform's performance.  For the first generation of IACC boats, there would not have been much useful data to build the VPP database.

At that time, CFD programs were not very good at handling the air-water interface.  So most of the CFD analysis would have been focused on completely under the water portions (ie keel, bulb, and keel to hull interface), or sails.  Model testing was still a big part of things back then.  The America's Cup Museum in RI has a couple of the New Zealand "models" which are actually well over 20 feet long.

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3 hours ago, TUBBY said:

Those things could make scary noises at the dock!

Frightening but in  a fun sort of a way.

In case anyone hasn't heard those noises.

 

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6 hours ago, Expat Canuck said:

VPP programs use ensemble data from existing hullforms to extrapolate / interpolate the new hullform's performance.  For the first generation of IACC boats, there would not have been much useful data to build the VPP database.

At that time, CFD programs were not very good at handling the air-water interface.  So most of the CFD analysis would have been focused on completely under the water portions (ie keel, bulb, and keel to hull interface), or sails.  Model testing was still a big part of things back then.  The America's Cup Museum in RI has a couple of the New Zealand "models" which are actually well over 20 feet long.

And here I thought there was some hard physical science to  VPPs - akin to what you got with CFDs but more advanced.

However, when I hear: existing, hullforms, data, extrapolate/interpolate, and database, I am thinking more of statistics with only a nod to actual physics.  Sounds like a slightly advanced, highly computational form of PHRF to me  – albeit with the potential of greater objectivity.

NTTAWWT and they seem to work to most peoples satisfaction.  Just not as much of a physics based approach as I thought.

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10 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

And here I thought there was some hard physical science to  VPPs - akin to what you got with CFDs but more advanced.

However, when I hear: existing, hullforms, data, extrapolate/interpolate, and database, I am thinking more of statistics with only a nod to actual physics.  Sounds like a slightly advanced, highly computational form of PHRF to me  – albeit with the potential of greater objectivity.

NTTAWWT and they seem to work to most peoples satisfaction.  Just not as much of a physics based approach as I thought.

Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble (I think your perception is fairly common)... But that is why ORC has several different rules.  They are using a different VPP database for sportboats as they are for Superyachts.

And when you come in with a boat that is an outlier to the other boats in the database, the extrapolated prediction will be less accurate, the further away the boat is from the others.

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20 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

In case anyone hasn't heard those noises.

 

My personal favourite was the sound of easing a wire headsail sheet on an alloy maxi.

The noise would go right through you then bounce back at you from any high shore nearby.  Absolutely awe inspiring.

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2 hours ago, TUBBY said:

My personal favourite was the sound of easing a wire headsail sheet on an alloy maxi.

The noise would go right through you then bounce back at you from any high shore nearby.  Absolutely awe inspiring.

Thank you for today's "Sorcery moment".

March 6, 2006

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2 hours ago, TUBBY said:

My personal favourite was the sound of easing a wire headsail sheet on an alloy maxi.

The noise would go right through you then bounce back at you from any high shore nearby.  Absolutely awe inspiring.

I have always been disturbed by the sound of metal creaking & groaning - wherever it occurred.

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19 hours ago, 12 metre said:

And here I thought there was some hard physical science to  VPPs - akin to what you got with CFDs but more advanced.

However, when I hear: existing, hullforms, data, extrapolate/interpolate, and database, I am thinking more of statistics with only a nod to actual physics.  Sounds like a slightly advanced, highly computational form of PHRF to me  – albeit with the potential of greater objectivity.

NTTAWWT and they seem to work to most peoples satisfaction.  Just not as much of a physics based approach as I thought.

AI analysis is doing a lot to improve VPPs.

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On 3/25/2021 at 6:13 AM, TUBBY said:

My personal favourite was the sound of easing a wire headsail sheet on an alloy maxi.

The noise would go right through you then bounce back at you from any high shore nearby.  Absolutely awe inspiring.

Me on Kialoa III in the late 70s, taking the wraps off the jib sheet for the tack.  Loads of fun.

Old post, sorry to re-do it, but some of the nippers may not have seen it.

 

K-III_wire_sheet.jpg

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Back on topic, here's Il Moro (ITA-1) when John Sweeney had her, and three others on SF Bay 20 years ago.  John got PeopleSoft, a bitter Oracle software competitor at the time, to brand the boat.  Then we sailed her back and forth past the SF Giants ballpark where there was a huge Oracle convention, and in and out of the cove too.  Apparently Larry wasn't amused.  Lovely boat.

No photo description available.

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40 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

Me on Kialoa III in the late 70s, taking the wraps off the jib sheet for the tack.  Loads of fun.

Old post, sorry to re-do it, but some of the nippers may not have seen it.

 

K-III_wire_sheet.jpg

There certainly was  a technique to it... when it went wrong, it went really wrong!

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11 minutes ago, charisma94 said:

There certainly was  a technique to it... when it went wrong, it went really wrong!

Yes.  You just didn't let it go wrong! 

A riding turn was a big problem.  Lazy sheet on the sail, and bolt cutters on the wire one to tack.  Then reeve a new wire sheet.  The perpetrator was generally assigned to the sewer after doing one of those, and sometimes not invited back for the next race.

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1 minute ago, P_Wop said:

Yes.  You just didn't let it go wrong! 

A riding turn was a big problem.  Lazy sheet on the sail, and bolt cutters on the wire one to tack.  Then reeve a new wire sheet.  The perpetrator was generally assigned to the sewer after doing one of those, and sometimes not invited back for the next race.

<shudder> I remember...

Or casting off too early, flailing wire stripping skin off the grinders lower legs...

Casting off too late, punching the spreaders through the sail...

Good times!

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9 hours ago, charisma94 said:

<shudder> I remember...

Or casting off too early, flailing wire stripping skin off the grinders lower legs...

Casting off too late, punching the spreaders through the sail...

Good times!

Grinding on Gretel II,  you faced inwards with the wire heady sheet a couple of feet behind you at about lower back level.

I remember explaining politely to a particular trimmer how lucky he was that the coffee grinder handles needed tools to remove, about the fourth or fifth whipping of the day.

As the discussion was pitched at a level quite clearly heard by everyone on the crew except the offending trimmer,  it was his first & last ride on the boat!

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Racing Mistress Quickly in Antigua Week in 86, Bob Cooper was trimming port side, and I did starboard.  MQ had huge overlapping genoas, so we always "had a bit on."

No problems at all.  Just before the final two tacks in the final race Bob and I put our heads together.  Then Coop produced a heinously early cast off, with wire lashing all over the place, and I managed a particularly slow tail, so the grinders got a big sweat on bringing it in.  Then we did the last tack, and I also did a nasty early release, and Bob was very slow on the tail the other side. 

Once the sail was all the way in, there were vile and abusive comments from the four grinders. 

Bob simply said "We did that so you'd know what the week could have been like."

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