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20,000 TEU containership (probably 1000 ft long) lost steerage in the Suez Canal, blocking the whole thing.  Should at least be a good test of the SC emergency response system....assuming they have thought of this scenario.

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Feexed! 

I'm sure they'll have divers in the water inspecting the damage. Likely some cracks and a few compartments locally badly damaged. If a ship is damaged that way, you might do some underwater welding to

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When things go sideways, they go sideways.

Would have been interesting to be on the vessel behind him.  They don't exactly stop on a dime.

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1 minute ago, Bus Driver said:

Maybe not.  This report is more recent.

Suez Canal Stays Blocked Despite Efforts to Free Stuck Ship

according to marinetraffic, they have 4 tugs yanking on it right now.

 

 

evergreen.pdf

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That looked like my first efforts to back my boat into the slip.

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6 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

Who is to blame, the pilot or the master? 

When I was attempting to back into my slip you ask?

Well most certainly not me, I will say with some confidence.

I think it was mermaids having a laugh...

No other explanation fits.

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2 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

Who is to blame, the pilot or the master? 

Too early to tell?   Likely there are a lot of factors involved.   

I went through that canal on one of the Big Grey Boats.  Marvelous experience (for the little bit I got to see - sadly spent most of my time in the engine room).

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37 minutes ago, Foreverslow said:

according to marinetraffic, they have 4 tugs yanking on it right now.

Only a 13 year old lets loose with 4 tugs.

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45 minutes ago, Foreverslow said:
50 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Maybe not.  This report is more recent.

Suez Canal Stays Blocked Despite Efforts to Free Stuck Ship

according to marinetraffic, they have 4 tugs yanking on it right now.

According to article I linked, they are aiming for high tide, which occurs around 8:00 PM (local time).  It is now 5:40 PM (local time).

If that doesn't work, next high tide is the goal.

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38 minutes ago, Bugsy said:
47 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

Who is to blame, the pilot or the master? 

Too early to tell?   Likely there are a lot of factors involved.   

I went through that canal on one of the Big Grey Boats.  Marvelous experience (for the little bit I got to see - sadly spent most of my time in the engine room).

They'll find a way to blame the snipes, if they can

- DSK

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58 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

Who is to blame, the pilot or the master? 

Depends on the situation.  In this case she lost power.  Don't care how good you are, ship loses steerage or power no one can save it in a canal like that.

11 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

They'll find a way to blame the snipes, if they can

- DSK

She did lose power, to what extent is not known yet but at those low speeds the steerage on this big girls sucks.  My guess is she lost steering and propulsion and went into the bank.

 

The tugs will eventually get it out.  They tried to push the stern over to let other ships pass, but that didn't work.  First ship goes past at anything over 3 knots the stern gets sucked right back out behind it and they are back to square one.

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6 minutes ago, Jkdubz808 said:

Depends on the situation.  In this case she lost power.  Don't care how good you are, ship loses steerage or power no one can save it in a canal like that.

Yes, calling for a tug is the only option. Also, the ships go in convoys so the following ships must be truly challenged to hold position. Especially with the reported crosswind. No U-turns. Backing must be fun. Container ships have bow thrusters? Do they carry stern anchors? Can the crew dinghy an anchor ashore?

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2 minutes ago, El Borracho said:

Yes, calling for a tug is the only option. Also, the ships go in convoys so the following ships must be truly challenged to hold position. Especially with the reported crosswind. No U-turns. Backing must be fun. Container ships have bow thrusters? Do they carry stern anchors? Can the crew dinghy an anchor ashore?

No stern hooks, most of them have bow thrusters but not all.  Honestly, in other parts of the world when this happens (like the Mississippi) they go as far as gently putting their bow in the mud and waiting it out that way.  

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31 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

They'll find a way to blame the snipes, if they can

- DSK

Do drop bears eat snipes??  Or is that a hemisphere thing like deadly fucking trees??  

 

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1 hour ago, MisterMoon said:

Who is to blame, the pilot or the master?

If you lose power, in tight quarters like that, not much you can do.

Oh, I know - use escort tugs like we do for oil tankers who we really don't want to run aground. They are already tethered to bow and stern so if you lose propulsion or steering they can react almost instantly. 

Of course that would mean huge numbers of tugboats (rubbing hands with glee as my company designs about 1/3 of the tugs in the world).

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Second half of this video shows some of the shipping backlog at the southern end.

The spin-on effects are already not pretty.

 

 

 

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any way to put a couple Caterpillar D9 - D11T on the other bank and pull?

Tons of torque and a solid footing..

With the oil industry, there has to be a couple in the area that a lowboy could trailer in.

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34 minutes ago, Foreverslow said:

any way to put a couple Caterpillar D9 - D11T on the other bank and pull?

Tons of torque and a solid footing..

With the oil industry, there has to be a couple in the area that a lowboy could trailer in.

Interesting...D11 is 100,000 kg. Coefficient of tractive effort in wet sand (dry sand 0.3) is 0.4. 400 kN force. Harbor tug: 500 kN. Seagoing tug: 4,600 kN. Could not find a value for cargo ships astern.

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1 hour ago, P_Wop said:

Second half of this video shows some of the shipping backlog at the southern end.

The spin-on effects are already not pretty.

 

 

 

Thank God all those ships have good brakes.

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Smit Salvage CEO on the news here. They are now sending people as they got the contract. It will take while.
Bow is up more then one meter on sandbank, stern is on a bank on the other side too. Draught around 15 meters ...

Last time they did a big ship like this, empty water and fuel, dredge at bow and stern, 2 very big tugs, 10 normal sized.
But much better access as it was in the middle of a canal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZBoPrD3IMs

 

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6 hours ago, Jkdubz808 said:
6 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

They'll find a way to blame the snipes, if they can

 

She did lose power, to what extent is not known yet but at those low speeds the steerage on this big girls sucks.  My guess is she lost steering and propulsion and went into the bank.

Guys in the engine room: "Did you hear that?"

"What"

"... some kind of scraping sound....."

- DSK

 

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Reminds me of late Saturday afternoon waiting to pull out at a one-lane ramp and some yahoo FUBARs something with 5 boats waiting, no, 10 boats waiting, no, 20 boats waiting.

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31 minutes ago, basketcase said:

so.... how many containers did they drop this time?

That's the problem - they are under quota. If they had dropped the expected number of containers, the ship would be floating higher. Floating higher, that bump may not have spun the rudder and the ship wouldn't be enjoying the warm embrace of shore.

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It's all a hoax to raise prices of goods world wide, and especially oil prices.

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Q: Do you know what the difference between Marjorie Taylor Green and the Suez canal is?

 

A: One is a busy ditch.

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29 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

It's all a hoax to raise prices of goods world wide, and especially oil prices.

Does llyods underwriters get the bill?? For salvage? For delays?

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56 minutes ago, DRIFTW00D said:

Does llyods underwriters get the bill?? For salvage? For delays?

An insurance company? Actually fulfilling it's obligations w/o major litigation in several locations? Over a dozen or more years? Don't be silly!

 Insurance companies aren't formed to insure anything except their own bottom line. It's like "The House" in a black Jack game.

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7 hours ago, El Borracho said:

Harbor tug: 500 kN

These days an awful lot we design are around 70-80T range. Even small 25m ones.  ~2 x 2500 kW engines gets you 80 tonnes of pull. A bunch of the tugs working on her today were our designs.

Cat D11 has a puny 700 kW engine. I will concede that tracks are more effective than propellers however.

I'm sure they'll get some much bigger salvage tugs, in the 150-200T class

 

 

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16 hours ago, MisterMoon said:

Who is to blame, the pilot or the master? 

It's always the Master in any port in the world.

"Pilots advice, Masters command", always.

When you're transiting Suez there's always a pilot on the bridge guiding you and talking to ships in front and behind... They certainly act serious and professional, until prayer time and he fucks off, lays out his prayer mat and talks to a sky fairy for 20 minutes. 

 

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31 minutes ago, charisma94 said:

It's always the Master in any port in the world.

"Pilots advice, Masters command", always.

When you're transiting Suez there's always a pilot on the bridge guiding you and talking to ships in front and behind... They certainly act serious and professional, until prayer time and he fucks off, lays out his prayer mat and talks to a sky fairy for 20 minutes. 

 

Yep talking to the sky fairy when shit happens is the masters fault......

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11 hours ago, DRIFTW00D said:

Does llyods underwriters get the bill?? For salvage? For delays?

Thats complicated, it all depends on their P&I and how its written, but in this case the insurer wouldn't be held liable for financial hits due to equipment failure.  Then again it all depends on how their policies are written.

9 hours ago, Zonker said:

These days an awful lot we design are around 70-80T range. Even small 25m ones.  ~2 x 2500 kW engines gets you 80 tonnes of pull. A bunch of the tugs working on her today were our designs.

Cat D11 has a puny 700 kW engine. I will concede that tracks are more effective than propellers however.

I'm sure they'll get some much bigger salvage tugs, in the 150-200T class

 

 

I did read that Smit had a few of their bigger salvage tugs heading to the canal, I'm sure they have a few handy for situations like this.  60T-80T BP tugs have been the norm in the newbuilds recently.  The bitts on our ship are rated for 73T, and last year when we went to dry dock both the tugs we used were rated 75T BP so they could only go 80% power to be safe.

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Technical question ...

 

Why do they try to pull it free with tugs, which can only react against the water? Wouldn't it be more efficient to push and pull it with rams and cables from the banks of the canal, so they can get a decent grip onto the surface?

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I'm sure Zonk has the answer but that won't stop me from speculating ;)

I'm guessing there aren't sufficiently strong hard points against which to push from the side, though that wouldn't prevent you from pulling from the opposite bank...Which is ~650 feet away. I suspect you also want to try and pull the hull away from the earth in the same direction it went in, since there's already a trench there.

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And when you pull on points high on the hull sides a fair portion of the force is downwards...not helpful at all. Pushing on near the waterline is more efficient. Put the 88 necessary huge tugs there... heh. The containers will be coming off as the waiting ships go around the Cape. 

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So 3 ft+ up on the bow and the stern down some maybe. Some reports of weeks to clear the wreck, what’s a good plan.  I’m guessing underwater survey with rov video,and keep digging from shore.

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42 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Lightering barge with a crane. Question is if they have any nearby.  

Innovative Port Fender Barge: Self-Propelled Barge To Reduce Congestion In  Ports

Guessing they could unload from both sides and speed things along if they have these north and south.  Anyone know if there are any warships stuck behind the plug?

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46 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Lightering barge with a crane. Question is if they have any nearby.  

Innovative Port Fender Barge: Self-Propelled Barge To Reduce Congestion In  Ports

Good idea for a smaller ship.  But the topmost containers on this one are 150 feet off the water.  And that's just the ones furthest outboard. The middle ones are 95 feet inboard as well.  

I'd think a large long-reach floating crane and some barges.  Lots of barges.

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49 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Lightering barge with a crane. Question is if they have any nearby.  

Innovative Port Fender Barge: Self-Propelled Barge To Reduce Congestion In  Ports

Good idea in theory, but none that I know of are large enough to reach 9 stacks high, and unloading that ship would take weeks if there was a container lightering barge available.

12 minutes ago, DRIFTW00D said:

So 3 ft+ up on the bow and the stern down some maybe. Some reports of weeks to clear the wreck, what’s a good plan.  I’m guessing underwater survey with rov video,and keep digging from shore.

The visibility in that water would render an ROV useless.  While ballasting the vessel down by the stern to raise the bow seems llike a good idea, it would take a lot to raise it enough to get the bow off the bottom, and at the point the stresses on the hull would be too dangerous.

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1 minute ago, P_Wop said:

I'd think a large long-reach floating crane and some barges.  Lots of barges.

Four barges end-to-end and you have a floating bridge.  Off-load onto trucks and temporarily store the containers on shore?  The shore isn't far away  :)

 

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And with 10,000 containers on the ship, it will take a LONG time to unload a significant enough number to affect the vessel. Dedicated container cranes in a port move very fast and everything is automated. A crane on a barge will take forever. Even several barges with cranes.

There are dedicated hard spots on the hull where tugs are allowed to push or pull at a specified push. Usually against a bulkhead or deep web frame

image.png.3eba7e71735720c32c5a332a08445978.pngimage.png.8fdb320a1addc5808fef1192bee99eec.png

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4 minutes ago, Bugsy said:

Four barges end-to-end and you have a floating bridge.  Off-load onto trucks and temporarily store the containers on shore? 

The tricky bit is the unloading. Height of the load above the water is quite high. And fully loaded 40' containers weigh 20 T.  So you need a very high crane. Then you have to connect it to the container.

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9 hours ago, charisma94 said:

It's always the Master in any port in the world.

"Pilots advice, Masters command", always.

When you're transiting Suez there's always a pilot on the bridge guiding you and talking to ships in front and behind... They certainly act serious and professional, until prayer time and he fucks off, lays out his prayer mat and talks to a sky fairy for 20 minutes. 

 

Problem is if the Master disregards the input of the Pilot and the shit hits the fan, boy is he in trouble.  Naval pilots into San Diego are senior enlisted that are the few that are allowed not to wear uniforms for obvious reasons.  Back in late 70s a captain did something against the input from the naval pilot implying at the moment "what did the he (pilot) know" and rammed a cruiser into unforgiving land.  It was a big deal for a time.

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1 hour ago, Zonker said:

And with 10,000 containers on the ship, it will take a LONG time to unload a significant enough number to affect the vessel. Dedicated container cranes in a port move very fast and everything is automated. A crane on a barge will take forever. Even several barges with cranes.

There are dedicated hard spots on the hull where tugs are allowed to push or pull at a specified push. Usually against a bulkhead or deep web frame

image.png.3eba7e71735720c32c5a332a08445978.pngimage.png.8fdb320a1addc5808fef1192bee99eec.png

And if the tug operator is lucky, its not near a section of the hull with a lot of sheer!  (Speaking from experience as a former harbor tug operator)

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We have tugs for that!

The Z-Tech designs have the wheelhouse mounted well aft (and a folding mast too of course)

They are specifically designed to work under the sheer of container ships and aircraft carriers. She is pushing with her bow (see the winch there). The raised stern is for steaming ahead into any sort of seas. Works well, Panama Canal also bought 15 or so of them.

image.png.0d50e7d5d52c2f07ffc9b6a512010048.png

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1 hour ago, Zonker said:

We have tugs for that!

The Z-Tech designs have the wheelhouse mounted well aft (and a folding mast too of course)

They are specifically designed to work under the sheer of container ships and aircraft carriers. She is pushing with her bow (see the winch there). The raised stern is for steaming ahead into any sort of seas. Works well, Panama Canal also bought 15 or so of them.

image.png.0d50e7d5d52c2f07ffc9b6a512010048.png

Only drove a Z-tech once, fantastic designs.  They can power indirect like a bad ass!  Wish I could have had more hands on with those, but I ended up transitioning into the oil field shortly thereafter.

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How about a big tug facing aft tied along the starboard bow, another tied facing forward along the port stern and prop wash/ sluice the dirt out from under it.

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12 minutes ago, See Level said:

How about a big tug facing aft tied along the starboard bow, another tied facing forward along the port stern and prop wash/ sluice the dirt out from under it.

gcaptain writes that a suction barge is now on-site. 2000 cu. meter per hour. That is about 9 hours to suck a meter of sand from under the entire ship. Estimate from there when the ship will break in half and roll over.

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Ever Given Ship blocking Suez Canal could be stuck for weeks

A cargo ship wedged sideways in a canal has sparked fears of a worldwide crisis, and it could take a long time to set it free, authorities fear.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/ever-given-ship-blocking-suez-canal-could-be-stuck-for-weeks/news-story/39d9835a3e98cadbfd5686d75cdaf37c

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20 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

An insurance company? Actually fulfilling it's obligations w/o major litigation in several locations? Over a dozen or more years? Don't be silly!

 Insurance companies aren't formed to insure anything except their own bottom line. It's like "The House" in a black Jack game.

Gold.;)

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14 hours ago, charisma94 said:

It's always the Master in any port in the world.

"Pilots advice, Masters command", always.

When you're transiting Suez there's always a pilot on the bridge guiding you and talking to ships in front and behind... They certainly act serious and professional, until prayer time and he fucks off, lays out his prayer mat and talks to a sky fairy for 20 minutes. 

 

Seen that happen as well, and keeping an eye the 'line handlers'.....<_<

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CostaConcordia salvage guys would have the gear for this. Parbuckling was a new term for me at the time but I like to use it when grilling out to describe a technique I use on my whole chicken, Spatchcocking and Parbuckling!

whole grilled chicken spatchcocked on parchment paper with a bowl of green garlic sauce grilled lemons

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5 hours ago, Jkdubz808 said:

While ballasting the vessel down by the stern to raise the bow seems llike a good idea, it would take a lot to raise it enough to get the bow off the bottom, and at the point the stresses on the hull would be too dangerous.

If that ship draws 14.5M (wikipedia)... and the canal sides are 1:4 ... I think the stern might also be aground.

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“A popover with more user information
15 minutes ago
 
Do we all realize that this isn't merely just a Big Boat, it's a fuckin' quarter mile long!  What the serious fuck???”
image.png.561386dda3cbf87216747935e65d0bf2.png"Nothing is worse than route canal!" - Big Boat 
Oh No! Big Boat is Stuck! by Dr. Suez.
 
 
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that idea of digging a trench dead ahead of the ship into the desert ain't a bad one.  How many open-bowl scrapers do they have in country?

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13 minutes ago, Charlie Foxtrot said:


The Middle East has needed nuking for a long time.

This sounds like a good time and place for it.  


:rolleyes:

The Suez is kinda handy though.

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2 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

CostaConcordia salvage guys would have the gear for this. Parbuckling was a new term for me at the time but I like to use it when grilling out to describe a technique I use on my whole chicken, Spatchcocking and Parbuckling!

whole grilled chicken spatchcocked on parchment paper with a bowl of green garlic sauce grilled lemons

hmmm   spatchcocking...    btw,  too much sugar in your marinade, thus the burnt crap..

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4 minutes ago, mad said:

The Suez is kinda handy though.

Except when things get sideways.

You think Covid stuck a spanner in the world wide shipping industry -watch this space

Supply and demand baby!

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