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Anyone else find it fascinating Alex's old boat Hugo Boss which finished 2nd with a broken foil and was considered the fastest of the Imoca boats in that race is leading this race so far? We have newer gen boats and yes it's a little light but 11th Hour Racing is leading and proving to be very competitive ATM. 

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Dude... phrasing!  

So many projects and good posts to catch up on . . . will have to wait until September to properly catch up. Thanks esp to Rennie for the VNRs. Best wishes to all the racers and posters: looks li

Situational awareness is the responsibility of every skipper, not just IMOCA one's.  Listening to Charlie's comments it was spoken more like a politician and less a skipper.  He (meaning the boat) rol

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4 hours ago, LeoV said:

Is there not a waypoint between start and finish ? If so no direct route possible.

Do you have details on that ? I'll try to look at the NOR but if you know, you know :-)

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55 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Anyone else find it fascinating Alex's old boat Hugo Boss which finished 2nd with a broken foil and was considered the fastest of the Imoca boats in that race is leading this race so far? We have newer gen boats and yes it's a little light but 11th Hour Racing is leading and proving to be very competitive ATM. 

Not sure what you find fascinating, but 11th Hour/ex HB has been greatly developed and has by far the most miles sailed in the past year. And they possibly have the best crew too. 

 

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31 minutes ago, psylophitales said:

Do you have details on that ? I'll try to look at the NOR but if you know, you know :-)

I found it, on the tracker there is a red dot far west off coast of Portugal. Well, that will change my analysis. It also completely removes the opened strategic choice and makes it pretty much a straight course... I'll update my analysis tonight anyway.

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5 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Not sure what you find fascinating, but 11th Hour/ex HB has been greatly developed and has by far the most miles sailed in the past year. And they possibly have the best crew too.

They are the only ones who really trained for this. Some other Imoca crews are almost new to each other.

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What happened to "Team Malizia"?  I thought they were going to participate, or was it only for TOR, not TORE?

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Can anyone fill me in on whether we're going to get a raw feed of videos as they arrive from the OBRs?

John

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13 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Anyone else find it fascinating Alex's old boat Hugo Boss which finished 2nd with a broken foil and was considered the fastest of the Imoca boats in that race is leading this race so far? We have newer gen boats and yes it's a little light but 11th Hour Racing is leading and proving to be very competitive ATM. 

She always was quick.

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1 hour ago, jbc said:

Can anyone fill me in on whether we're going to get a raw feed of videos as they arrive from the OBRs?

John

That would be awesome !

Also, if they could publish on the official website all the videos published by each crew - that would make sense right ?

As of now my youtube recommendation sometimes picks up some posts for example by LinkedOut, from LinkedOut channel. That's silly ! The Ocean Race should at least re-post all of them so it's easy to follow and get the daily directly from the crews.

That being said, the "daily fix" is really excellent - much better in my opinion than the one from Vendée Globe.

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12 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Not sure what you find fascinating, but 11th Hour/ex HB has been greatly developed and has by far the most miles sailed in the past year. And they possibly have the best crew too. 

 

That it was leading the newer gen Imoca boats. 

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New weather forecast/routing analysis for the race. This time, I got it ! There is a mark to leave on port far west of Portugal !!!

In summary:

All boats are in excellent wind overnight and the foiling IMOCA are taking advantage of the reduced drag, placing them about 10% faster than the VOR65 - a huge advantage ! Mirpuri leads the VOR65 with a big lead, 10nm over Akzonobel. The next potential tricky conditions to negotiate are during the middle of the day (31st), when winds will go down and boats will be on a beat: the fleet will compact at that time. 11th hour and LinkedOut are neck and neck - an excellent performance actually for LinkedOut, having had little time to prepare their boat. We note the excellent return of Bureau Vallée, which was pointing last of the IMOCA just 12hours ago. All boats will round the mark with better winds, and accelerate on a broach reach. The leaders will be blocked by the weather front while the back of the fleet will enjoy excellent winds: it promises a finish extremely tight !

The details:

 

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Great to see the VOR65's vs the Imoca's over some sort of distance and a variety of conditions. ATM the IMOCAS have the edge. I think 20nm approx between the leading VOR65 and IMOCA. 

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Good to see Mirpuri as an Portuguese boat doing well, this country has been missing at the ocean racing scene.

Vids from Imoca, first time ever showing crewed racing offshore. Even team breakfasts. Such a difference from solo sailing and making vids by the only sailor. No more clack clack clack.

hell yeah 11th should lead, fresher sails, two years of training against boats just refitted and checked from a VG.

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7 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

 

Well worth a watch.  Nicely presented,  informative,  not to dumbed down - liked the comment about different helming ideas. hope the standard continues

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2 hours ago, LeoV said:

hell yeah 11th should lead, fresher sails, two years of training against boats just refitted and checked from a VG.

11th Hour did the VG in 2016 not 2020

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11 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

What happened to "Team Malizia"?  I thought they were going to participate, or was it only for TOR, not TORE?

TOR, Boris has sold the old boat and I presume is building the new one?

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2 hours ago, LeoV said:

hell yeah 11th should lead, fresher sails, two years of training against boats just refitted and checked from a VG

Ha, ha. Except somebody forgot to tell, Thomas and his crew aboard, LinkedOut. :-)

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Anybody knows what is the time period for the gain/loss column ?

I don't see it written anywhere.

And the kind of timer (circle getting full) icon at the left of the time/date, represent the updates ? That is really real time if the case !

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So in 65 fleet the Austrian team were the only ones who didn't (couldn't?) opt for the new A4 and they've already suffered in the early part of this leg

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On 5/30/2021 at 11:24 PM, terrafirma said:

Anyone else find it fascinating Alex's old boat Hugo Boss which finished 2nd with a broken foil and was considered the fastest of the Imoca boats in that race is leading this race so far? We have newer gen boats and yes it's a little light but 11th Hour Racing is leading and proving to be very competitive ATM. 

 

23 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Not sure what you find fascinating, but 11th Hour/ex HB has been greatly developed and has by far the most miles sailed in the past year. And they possibly have the best crew too. 

 

 

10 hours ago, terrafirma said:

That it was leading the newer gen Imoca boats. 

 

Then in the "Uggly" thread:

3 hours ago, terrafirma said:

I posted something about how well Alex's old Imoca was performing in The Ocean Race against the newer gen Imoca's. I got a very bitter response too. Thought it might have been me? :ph34r:  

Sorry Terra, you are obvious a lier, and a SOF, if I may say so.

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3 hours ago, yl75 said:

Anybody knows what is the time period for the gain/loss column ?

I don't see it written anywhere.

And the kind of timer (circle getting full) icon at the left of the time/date, represent the updates ? That is really real time if the case !

The tracker is updated I think every 5 minutes (!!). That's a big change vs Vendée Globe. It's essentially real time.

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12 hours ago, psylophitales said:

That would be awesome !

Also, if they could publish on the official website all the videos published by each crew - that would make sense right ?

As of now my youtube recommendation sometimes picks up some posts for example by LinkedOut, from LinkedOut channel. That's silly ! The Ocean Race should at least re-post all of them so it's easy to follow and get the daily directly from the crews.

That being said, the "daily fix" is really excellent - much better in my opinion than the one from Vendée Globe.

Yeah, I'm enjoying the video they're putting out. It's just that knowing that the OBRs are out there killing themselves to shoot, edit, and upload great videos every day, while I only get to see little 10-second chunks of it as deemed suitable for distribution by the central media operation, makes me want to break things. I know my ranting about this from the last few editions of the race is old news, but one more time, for nostalgia's sake: 

It's. A. Sport. Fans deserve to see the actual event, not just a highlights reel assembled after the fact.

The "Raw content" page from the last edition of the race is still on the website, just not linked from the site navigation. See:

https://www.theoceanrace.com/en/raw.html

I'm going to keep hoping that at some point they'll start updating that again and add a link to it.

John

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After two days of racing it is interesting to see the expansion and compression of the two fleets and the boats overall.  I expected the IMOCAs to have an advantage in mid range winds and seas, but they are not as far ahead as I expected...then I saw/see the hole they are all sailing into that explains the compression.  Once the IMOCA's turn the mark I bet we see them stretch it out again.  

What's missing for a complete head to head comparison is stronger winds and seas.  I feel that that the VO65s would be able to carry more sail and have more consistent speeds.  Overall this is such fun to watch and follow.  Like the last VOR I see tight finishes for the 65s and a little more strung out field with the 60s.

I realize the legs are short due to the nature of the race and course, but I do miss the long hauls.  If they can put this many boats on the line for TOR, it will be fun to watch how the routing may differ between fleets with more time by navigators to play with routing.

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23 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Today's VNR:
 

 

So, Rennmaus, what is this sailinganarchy.de business exactly ?

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

Today's VNR:
 

 

... And 3 short onboards by LinkedOut added.
Also I hope that there will be more content by the other teams as well in the future.

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6 hours ago, bucc5062 said:

What's missing for a complete head to head comparison is stronger winds and seas.  I feel that that the VO65s would be able to carry more sail and have more consistent speeds.  Overall this is such fun to watch and follow.  Like the last VOR I see tight finishes for the 65s and a little more strung out field with the 60s.

I think, what might also be missing Bucc, as far as performance comparison of the two classes is concerned, is that the IMOCA60's are literally 'packed' with a crew. Love to see them go up against the VO65's the way they were designed; as solo racers.

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LinkedOut (originally, the Verdier designed OD VO60) showing her class upwind. 

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16 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

LinkedOut (originally, the Verdier designed OD VO60) showing her class upwind. 

I think 11th hour has a position advantage, with a course slightly less upwind. I am French but I live close to Newport: go 11th hour ! ;-)

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Just now, psylophitales said:

I think 11th hour has a position advantage, with a course slightly less upwind. I am French but I live close to Newport: go 11th hour ! ;-)

Good on you, Psylo. Great to see you rooting for your local team. ;-)

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Some more weather analysis !

Day 2 was a crucial day for the leaders ! The teams were battling a complicated weather, crossing a ridge with low wind before a front caught them on a beam. 11th hour managed to take the lead shortly after the front, by staying higher in the winds when crossing the ridge, and keeping a better speed and angle towards the mark. This may be the decisive move for the win in the IMOCA class ! It seems that LinkedOut continues to take a very direct course towards destination, while 11th hour "plays" with position advantage and wind directions with more manoeuvres. While Mirpuri maintained most of its lead in 24hours, there is a tight battle for 3rd place between Childhood Foundation and Team Poland. The end of the race promises to be extremely tight, with a lot of strategy coming for the very last hours of racing. The leaders will catch up with the front, pushed by a broad reach wind of 20knts and will be blocked at the border of the front just before reaching Cascais. This will create a compression, with important wind shifts that can favor the boats behind. Stay tuned, and watch live around June 2nd ~5am UTC !

More details at:

 

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38 minutes ago, minime88 said:

Now the first of the IMOCAs are around the corner, they are really starting to stretch their legs.

Yes 11th Hour now in the lead over Linked Out. (Alex's old boat vs new Gen Imoca) and 50 miles ahead of the leading VOR65 Mirpuri. The leading Imoca's doing 25-26 Knots sustained which is impressive. Which boat would you rather be living on though a loud Imoca vs a quieter VOR65? 

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7 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Yes 11th Hour now in the lead over Linked Out. (Alex's old boat vs new Gen Imoca) and 50 miles ahead of the leading VOR65 Mirpuri. The leading Imoca's doing 25-26 Knots sustained which is impressive. Which boat would you rather be living on though a loud Imoca vs a quieter VOR65? 

Might be slightly less wet on the IMOCA :P, though I'd imagine the motion would take some getting used to. Below decks would be sonorous on either I'd imagine.

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

(Alex's old boat vs new Gen Imoca)

With the updated foil package for me they are the same generation. They are only 2.5 years apart in construction date.
A pity the newest Hugo Boss is not participating...

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2 hours ago, LeoV said:

With the updated foil package for me they are the same generation. They are only 2.5 years apart in construction date.
A pity the newest Hugo Boss is not participating...

In foil design but not hull. If you remember this boat was quite narrow compared to the other Imoca's. 

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A bit off topic but do anyone here read french?


«Good evening everyone,
My Imoca heeled this afternoon shortly after the Trinity Channel exit as we were preparing to navigate with a media on the eve of our Tour de France Microplastiques. A cameraman and three members of my team were slightly injured and transferred to the ER without their condition being concerned tonight. Wishing them a very good recovery. I am obviously psychologically marked because this accident occurred on my responsibility to skipper. The boat is back at the dock and will be out of the water tomorrow for inspection and damage estimate.
We keep you informed.
Good evening,
Fabrice Amedeo»

from Facebook translate. (I don’t read french)

 

https://www.francebleu.fr/amp/infos/faits-divers-justice/la-trinite-sur-mer-le-voilier-du-skipper-fabrice-amedeo-talonne-a-la-sortie-du-chenal-1622479602

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original text: 
Bonsoir à tous,
Mon Imoca a talonné cet après-midi peu après la sortie du chenal de la Trinité alors que nous nous apprêtions à réaliser une navigation avec un média à la veille du départ de notre Tour de France Microplastiques. Un cameraman et trois membres de mon équipe ont été légèrement blessés et ont été transférés aux urgences sans que leur état ne suscite ce soir d’inquiétude. Je leur souhaite un très bon rétablissement. Je suis bien évidemment marqué psychologiquement car cet accident est survenu sous ma responsabilité de skipper. Le bateau est de retour à quai et sera sorti de l’eau dès demain pour une inspection et une estimation des dégâts. 
Nous vous tenons informés.
Bonne soirée,
Fabrice

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2 hours ago, LeoV said:

With the updated foil package for me they are the same generation. They are only 2.5 years apart in construction date.
A pity the newest Hugo Boss is not participating...

Indeed, I don't think Alex can stay on his (almost VG only stance) if he wants to continue, but must be difficult for him, not sure where he stands with respect to sponsorship

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5 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Indeed, I don't think Alex can stay on his (almost VG only stance) if he wants to continue, but must be difficult for him, not sure where he stands with respect to sponsorship

The boat is doing the Fastnet this year, and I'd assume it'd be prepared for the TJV either for Alex, a charter, or sale, but it takes a lot of money to keep the lights on a highly complex campaign, adding in extra races if he wants to get out / is still arranging sponsorship is more cost for something the boat was not designed for.

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5 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Yes 11th Hour now in the lead over Linked Out. (Alex's old boat vs new Gen Imoca) and 50 miles ahead of the leading VOR65 Mirpuri. The leading Imoca's doing 25-26 Knots sustained which is impressive. Which boat would you rather be living on though a loud Imoca vs a quieter VOR65? 

I think the non-foiling monohull aircraft carrier "Comanche" may still hold a 24 hr record of just over 25 knots?

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2 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

I think the non-foiling monohull aircraft carrier "Comanche" may still hold a 24 hr record of just over 25 knots?

yes it does, but I hope a fully crewed imoca can take it soon. LinkedOut got 24.6 on 4 hours according to the tracker so they are almost getting in that territory. Comanche's record is 25.75 knots or 618 nm so they still have a bit of a margin

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28 minutes ago, serialsailor said:

yes it does, but I hope a fully crewed imoca can take it soon. LinkedOut got 24.6 on 4 hours according to the tracker so they are almost getting in that territory. Comanche's record is 25.75 knots or 618 nm so they still have a bit of a margin

With just over 350 nm left they may not have the chance this leg.  Looking at Windy going forward it seems like the most of the boats could ride this pressure all the way in.  Windy has it rolling over the coast by Weds with good pressure all the way so possibly less compression and more opportunity to sprint to the Finish.  A rough look at course and wind seems to have them going sough around the red zone.  The last few miles could make or break positions if they are close.

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1 hour ago, bucc5062 said:

With just over 350 nm left they may not have the chance this leg.  Looking at Windy going forward it seems like the most of the boats could ride this pressure all the way in.  Windy has it rolling over the coast by Weds with good pressure all the way so possibly less compression and more opportunity to sprint to the Finish.  A rough look at course and wind seems to have them going sough around the red zone.  The last few miles could make or break positions if they are close.

Yesterday my weather forecast and routing showed the IMOCA going ahead of the front just before the finish line. But there is a chance, since it was just a little over 24hours on that leg.

They have taken over 11thhour now, LinkedOut is really really fast on that leg.

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14 minutes ago, serialsailor said:

Linked out clocking 28.9 knots right now wow ^^

now 29.1! I think these numbers (the "instant speed" left of 4h speed and 24h speed) is over 15 or 5 minutes but i'm not sure. Does anybody know how this metric is taken?

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What's the explanation for why 11th and Linked are gybing south instead of reaching along the straightest path?  Is it just trying to stay with the wind or is there something about a faster reaching angle they are looking for?  Or.....?

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1 minute ago, Nochmal said:

What's the explanation for why they are gybing south instead of reaching along the straightest path?  Is it just trying to stay with the wind or is there something about a faster reaching angle they are looking for?  Or.....?

Can also be strategic covering of 11th hour if they are confident in their relative speeds

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4 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Can also be strategic covering of 11th hour if they are confident in their relative speeds

So, why is 11th doing it then?  Seems like they are letting the rest of the fleet back into it, but I'm sure I'm missing something...

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I didn't look at the routing in details, but somehow right now, it's a mix of routing and match racing tactics on a big scale between the two

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27 minutes ago, Nochmal said:

What's the explanation for why 11th and Linked are gybing south instead of reaching along the straightest path?  Is it just trying to stay with the wind or is there something about a faster reaching angle they are looking for?  Or.....?

 

24 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Can also be strategic covering of 11th hour if they are confident in their relative speeds

 

23 minutes ago, Nochmal said:

So, why is 11th doing it then?  Seems like they are letting the rest of the fleet back into it, but I'm sure I'm missing something...

It's really perplexing - and interesting ! My routing from yesterday was not showing this as a possible good route.

My only explanation is "control", like yl75 says, and heat of the race between the two. However they are getting into a unfavorable position vs the others !

I remember - I think 2017 start from Cape Town in SA - a team discussed with locals about best places to find winds at the start, and locals mentioning "go out at sea".

And the crew forgot, in the heat of the start and the match, until they saw a cargo whose fumes were going faster than the cargo itself. Remembering their discussions with the locals, they tacked, went out to sea and gobbled up some of the other teams.

Is this something that is happening here ?

[edit] Mirpuri is doing great, 3rd overall presently !

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Another thing I've been noticing watching the tracker a fair amount for the last 36 hours or so...

11th seems to usually have higher boat speed than Linked...but then do some maneuvers that give up the lead.  I'm not sure if this is tracker artifacts or something else, but it does seem like they are playing a positioning game.  It seems like it paid off in getting them to the weather front just a bit earlier than Linked...maybe this is something similar?

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8 hours ago, KMBB said:

original text: 
Bonsoir à tous,
Mon Imoca a talonné cet après-midi peu après la sortie du chenal de la Trinité alors que nous nous apprêtions à réaliser une navigation avec un média à la veille du départ de notre Tour de France Microplastiques. Un cameraman et trois membres de mon équipe ont été légèrement blessés et ont été transférés aux urgences sans que leur état ne suscite ce soir d’inquiétude. Je leur souhaite un très bon rétablissement. Je suis bien évidemment marqué psychologiquement car cet accident est survenu sous ma responsabilité de skipper. Le bateau est de retour à quai et sera sorti de l’eau dès demain pour une inspection et une estimation des dégâts. 
Nous vous tenons informés.
Bonne soirée,
Fabrice

The automatic translation is correct, except for the first sentence: the boat did not heel, it hit the ground! From the explanation, they were in the channel coming out of La Trinité sur mer, and either they got out of the channel while maneuvering/raising sails, or the channel is not as deep as it is supposed to be...

In French; talon is heel as the aft part of the foot. but the verb talonner means that your keel struck the bottom...

 

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Ahah...the Daily Fix episode today says that 11th and Linked hit the light air and that triggered the gybing to the south to stay in the wind.  Can't see that on the tracker with the low time-resolution I guess, but it makes sense.

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9 hours ago, terrafirma said:

In foil design but not hull. If you remember this boat was quite narrow compared to the other Imoca's. 

When HB was launched MASCF was already built.
MACSF is 5.70 m beam, 11th is 5.50m
Not a big difference. Bow shape is different and stood out.

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Talk about  a park up!  

 

It could be a VO65 takes line honors, but I wonder if, as the boats run ahead of the pressure and slow down, the front catches up and they get boosted back up.

It would be great to see the Austrian's catch up and make the finish have some drama.   To me, Nobel is in the better place for the 65's ( if they want the south side of the EZ) and it looks now like Muri may take the north and run down the back?  A split would ratchet this up even more.  At this rate I'll miss the finish live, it will be to early (or I set my alarm).

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3 hours ago, yl75 said:

Your post is in the wrong thread Laurent I think ;)

I was replying to a post by KMBB upthread; but I see now that the same conversation was going on the other thread and that you explained the translation earlier overthere.

At least, our explanations are in line! :D

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1 hour ago, Nochmal said:

Is some of this southerly routing by the faster boats (bring them back to everyone else) due to trying to play the angle around an exclusion zone off Cascais?

As noted earlier, the first 2 IMOCAs were actually sailing East faster than the front, once they rounded the virtual mark offshore. If you replay the tracker, you see at June 1st, 11:00 UTC that they reach the front, and light air. So either you get parked, and waith for the wind to fill in from behind, or you jibe and go South to stay in the pressure. It is a conundrum that did not occur for the other boats (yet) as they were further behind.

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16 minutes ago, Laurent said:

As noted earlier, the first 2 IMOCAs were actually sailing East faster than the front, once they rounded the virtual mark offshore. If you replay the tracker, you see at June 1st, 11:00 UTC that they reach the front, and light air. So either you get parked, and waith for the wind to fill in from behind, or you jibe and go South to stay in the pressure. It is a conundrum that did not occur for the other boats (yet) as they were further behind.

Yeah, just wondering about the angle ideas of going south...

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13 minutes ago, Nochmal said:

Yeah, just wondering about the angle ideas of going south...

Interesting to see that the lead VO65 Mirpura is just 0.4 nm behind the lead IMOCA Bureau Vallee, according to the Tracker.

Judging by current wind direction in front of the fleet, the boats further south, such as 11th Hour and AkzoNobel, should have an advantage in the home run into Cascais.

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8 hours ago, serialsailor said:

yes it does, but I hope a fully crewed imoca can take it soon. LinkedOut got 24.6 on 4 hours according to the tracker so they are almost getting in that territory. Comanche's record is 25.75 knots or 618 nm so they still have a bit of a margin

I don't quite recall, but didn't a VO65 set a VOR record of something like 24 knots for 24 hours during the previous VOR, while crossing the North Atlantic?

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18 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Interesting to see that the lead VO65 Mirpura is just 0.4 nm behind the lead IMOCA Bureau Vallee, according to the Tracker.

Judging by current wind direction in front of the fleet, the boats further south, such as 11th Hour and AkzoNobel, should have an advantage in the home run into Cascais.

That's also my reading, but the winds will be very shifty.

1 minute ago, MaxHugen said:

I don't quite recall, but didn't a VO65 set a VOR record of something like 24 knots for 24 hours during the previous VOR, while crossing the North Atlantic?

Yes, absolutely, pushed also by the Gulf Stream. AFAIK Comanche then took the record.

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12 hours ago, yl75 said:

Indeed, I don't think Alex can stay on his (almost VG only stance) if he wants to continue, but must be difficult for him, not sure where he stands with respect to sponsorship

He's working the boat up for the Fastnet (early August) at the moment, apparently.

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2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

 

I find Niall's commentary a bit annoying at times, but this was quite a good episode. I see that the boats are even using 2 outriggers at times, when using multiple headsails..

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1 minute ago, MaxHugen said:

I find Niall's commentary a bit annoying at times, but this was quite a good episode. I see that the boats are even using 2 outriggers at times, when using multiple headsails..

Agree, Max. He's been pretty good in this Daily Fix programme so far.

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