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How about a The Ocean Race Europe thread?


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Just now, JonRowe said:

They must have finished by now surely?

Tracker obviously not right Jon yes I'd say they have been finished 10 minutes ago

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Dude... phrasing!  

So many projects and good posts to catch up on . . . will have to wait until September to properly catch up. Thanks esp to Rennie for the VNRs. Best wishes to all the racers and posters: looks li

Situational awareness is the responsibility of every skipper, not just IMOCA one's.  Listening to Charlie's comments it was spoken more like a politician and less a skipper.  He (meaning the boat) rol

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1 minute ago, JonRowe said:

They must have finished by now surely?

Finished or wandering around confused as to what just happened.  Would have LOVED to see that finish live, but will acccept the tracker.

I though the Austrians had it or a top 3, but man did Amber do a fantastic job in the end.  It looks like mixed wx will keep these fleets close so I now expect close racing and finishes for the other legs.

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Question is, does 11th hour get docked points for the collision?

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1 minute ago, JonRowe said:

Question is, does 11th hour get docked points for the collision?

It's an interesting one they came in with so much speed and surely knew they would hit? Did they go for a luff at the end? 

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1 minute ago, JonRowe said:

Question is, does 11th hour get docked points for the collision?

Points and position in my book unless they cleared out at sea.  It looked like they hit two boats, but the second could be camera angle.

 

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Just now, terrafirma said:

It's an interesting one they came in with so much speed and surely knew they would hit? Did they go for a luff at the end? 

Man have you seen Childhood defending like a champion?

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2 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Question is, does 11th hour get docked points for the collision?

The boat can't help it, its built into its DNA (consider its previous life!!)

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5 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

Finished or wandering around confused as to what just happened.  Would have LOVED to see that finish live, but will acccept the tracker.

I though the Austrians had it or a top 3, but man did Amber do a fantastic job in the end.  It looks like mixed wx will keep these fleets close so I now expect close racing and finishes for the other legs.

It looks like there was no finish line..! Tracker still saying no boat has finished. That's bullshit obviously.

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14 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

To me it almost looks like the foil cleared, but then the out rigger caught something on the VO65

I thought it was the outrigger at first (forgot about the foils).  Now that I watch it again, I can see the starboard foil hit the port side of Ambersail's transom.

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Just now, Corryvreckan said:

I thought it was the outrigger at first (forgot about the foils).  Now that I watch it again, I can see the starboard foil hit the port side of Ambersail's transom.

I agree I rewatched the official video with the replay, and it was a very clear "foil transom" hit.

 

8 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

It's an interesting one they came in with so much speed and surely knew they would hit? Did they go for a luff at the end? 

I don't want to cast shade because anyone who has been offshore knows you can make simple mistakes when sleep deprived, but its like they got caught up in the VO65 fleet battle and forgot they were an IMOCA with a big ass foil out the side.

I couldn't see anyone looking to leeward in the video, just a huddle in the cockpit and someone at the mast who I assume was the OBR taking video?

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Just now, JonRowe said:

I couldn't see anyone looking to leeward in the video, just a huddle in the cockpit and someone at the mast who I assume was the OBR taking video?

Well, that ought to be some interesting video!:P

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Well Hot damn, if you believe the tracker the Austrians finished First.  They truly sailed their hearts out and I can only imagine if they had the same sail suite as the other 65s could they hang in all conditions.

 

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What a mess the communication on this one, and the line didn't even show up on the tracker.

Feels like there was a bit of panic in their comm team (if it exists at all).

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Miripuri last... That's going to hurt and surely 11th Hour are going to be placed last following a protest from Childhood. Having watched the video what I cannot understand is why put yourself in that position against a fleet you're not racing... 

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1 minute ago, Link said:

AmberSail should protest :D

Seriously,  Rerunning the tracker it was a tight race between Austria, Poland, Childhood when Amber came roaring in.  Right at the end they were in first (for a few updates so how the hell do they finish in 6th.  The racing was amazing, but the presentation looks like a elementary school media committee. 

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24 minutes ago, yl75 said:

What a mess the communication on this one, and the line didn't even show up on the tracker.

Feels like there was a bit of panic in their comm team (if it exists at all).

Yeah, more like comm person

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What an insane finish... but it feels a lot like lottery, which IMHO isn't the best. Really tough for Mirpuri, and Corum wins while it didn't lead ever ?

Anyway, that was fun... hopefully next leg won't be as much lottery.

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Lots and lots of small onboard clips to down- and then upload.
Will post the link when a considerable number is uploaded :-)

The media center download function is not the most comfortable.

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

The first 20 or so onboard snippets are uploaded. More to come...
 

 

Almost complete, but there is more coming in still.
I wonder why the stuff from 30., 31. May and 1 June has not been uploaded earlier? Is there no internet link from the boats to the HQ?

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Just now, LeoV said:

So 7 VOR delta finish 3min 10 seconds. Impressive.
And the 5 Imoca class in 15m 18 seconds.

Once again I have been thinking, while this is cool, is it due to a reliance on routing software and information?

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1 minute ago, trimfast said:

Once again I have been thinking, while this is cool, is it due to a reliance on routing software and information?

No, it's a one class. It's been like this since 2014/15 for the shorter legs and even for the transatlantic 

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1 hour ago, drm_ovl said:

No, it's a one class. It's been like this since 2014/15 for the shorter legs and even for the transatlantic 

AIS is clearly part of the issue on the longer legs, maybe also on the shorter ones. Specifically for this leg, the conditions played a big role

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53 minutes ago, drm_ovl said:

 

Charlie of 11th blames the incident on "putting different boats in situations like that". Quite a debatable comment. 

I can’t see on the official notice board whether this has been taken to the protest room or not?! 

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I'm seeing all these cool helicopter shots of the finish but there was no livestream at the time? Or am I missing something?

Also, are the EHR and Team Germany Imocas new or are they vendee boats?

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1 hour ago, drm_ovl said:

 

Charlie of 11th blames the incident on "putting different boats in situations like that". Quite a debatable comment. 

What a bullshit statement. How is this any different than boats of different kinds racing in the Fastnet, or Transpac, or S2H or Transat or...or...... Total cop out comment.

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You would think that he of all people knows how a VO65 sails, 2 laps around the marble.

Besides, he put himself in that situation.

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19 minutes ago, ASP said:

What a bullshit statement. How is this any different than boats of different kinds racing in the Fastnet, or Transpac, or S2H or Transat or...or...... Total cop out comment.

Absolutely a bullshit comment - he put himself there, against boats he wasn’t racing. I hope the rule book gets thrown at him. 
 

it’s tricky, he’s a guy you want to like but for Christ sake just own the fact that it was a fuck up. Internal debrief? Not required, hold your hands up and accept it like a big boy. 

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1 hour ago, drm_ovl said:

 

Charlie of 11th blames the incident on "putting different boats in situations like that". Quite a debatable comment. 

Fuck. I hope he's a better driver on the freeway.

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The inconvenient truth is that if all those other boats had been imocas, there would probably have been a much bigger carnage

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14 minutes ago, jonas a said:

The inconvenient truth is that if all those other boats had been imocas, there would probably have been a much bigger carnage

Wrong. There's no way you'd have an IMOCA60 fleet bunched like that in the first place.

They understand spatial awareness, apparently unlike, Charlie.

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27 minutes ago, jonas a said:

The inconvenient truth is that if all those other boats had been imocas, there would probably have been a much bigger carnage

No way, the other IMOCA skippers come from shorthanded backgrounds where they know better than to put a boat in an inescapable situation like that. It's likely we will never know who was driving at that time but still...responsibility falls on Charlie there. 

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10 hours ago, drm_ovl said:

Tight!

Screenshot 2021-06-02 at 13.20.49.png

This is what happens when the "wind comes back from behind"... very frustrating if you were at the front, recomforting if you were at the back...

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If ever there was a time to get your foils to lift, rather than drag, this was it....

Screen Shot 2021-06-03 at 9.26.26 AM.png

Screen Shot 2021-06-03 at 9.26.36 AM.png

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Well, it was kind of a strange situation. Many boats got stuck close to the exclusion zone, in almost no wind and then a sudden gust hit.

Not impossible in a bigger imoca fleet either, and such a mistake would easily destroy many foils etc, but I agree, most imoca skippers would know how to avoid such a situation. 

 

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2 hours ago, jonas a said:

Well, it was kind of a strange situation. Many boats got stuck close to the exclusion zone, in almost no wind and then a sudden gust hit.

Not impossible in a bigger imoca fleet either, and such a mistake would easily destroy many foils etc, but I agree, most imoca skippers would know how to avoid such a situation. 

 

Situational awareness is the responsibility of every skipper, not just IMOCA one's.  Listening to Charlie's comments it was spoken more like a politician and less a skipper.  He (meaning the boat) rolled right into another boat.  His crew could see the other boats, someone could have communicated like "We're going to fuck them in the ass if we don't do something"...then they did.

If I was to defend them I would make comments about tired crew, tunnel vision and a skipper who forgets he has 15 ft of material hanging off the side of his boat.  But that is no defense.

Charlie, you ran into the stern of a boat...embrace it, learn from it, and just maybe, don't do it again.  Oh, and take your penalty an in public admit you (re helm) fucked up.  We'll like you more.

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Soooo... leg 2 is next ?

Although maybe we can go back to the terrible fate of Mirpuri, which led the entire race until the last few hours, and finished late. They pay a hefty price for their north option, but there were 2 other boads (Corum and 11th hour) in the same area that changed course for the south: Mirpuri decided to continue on the north option, and it was a losing option. They had the information to make a different decision and a position that allowed them to change course. They didn't, and their loss is not entirely due to the lottery of the shifty, gutsy winds of the last few hours.

 

Now for leg 2, while the weather forecast is likely to change until Saturday, the race should start with strong winds on broad reach, with high speeds until slowing down before Gibraltar. The first half of the mediterranean sea leg will be on a close haul, not favorable to foiling IMOCA, but they will have good winds around 15 to 20knts. Expect many crossings, change of leadership, and a ton of manoeuvres. The end of the race is forecasted on light winds, and we hope it will be less of a lottery than Cascais' arrival.

More details at:

 

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1 minute ago, drm_ovl said:

Crickets.. 

Very strange, a bit like their Tracker.! There were crickets at the finish line too........:D

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2 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Very strange, a bit like their Tracker.! There were crickets at the finish line too........:D

Hahaha!!!

Unfortunately, they will not have the balls to hand a "premier sponsor" a well fucking deserved penalty... That s how it goes :/ Luckily no one was hurt!

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No penalty for 11th:

"11th Hour Racing Team took penalty turns on the water and has now confirmed this with Race Management through its GPS track. The protest period expired overnight with no protests filed. Therefore the results on the water are now final.

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13 hours ago, psylophitales said:

The end of the race is forecasted on light winds, and we hope it will be less of a lottery than Cascais' arrival.

IMOCAs aren't light wind boats, so a similar scenario of VO65 coming from behind might happen again!

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26 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

IMOCAs aren't light wind boats, so a similar scenario of VO65 coming from behind might happen again!

Yeah... it absolutely can, especially for now forecast is light wind on a broad reach !

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8 minutes ago, psylophitales said:

Yeah... it absolutely can, especially for now forecast is light wind on a broad reach !

Would be quite frustrating for the IMOCAs to be caught twice! IMOCAs weren't designed for this kind of semi coastal races where ability to progress in flukey winds matter more and sheer power matters less. Nevertheless for the Ocean race it should be a bit different and they should manage to put a weather system between them and the VO65 on several legs.

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6 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Would be quite frustrating for the IMOCAs to be caught twice! IMOCAs weren't designed for this kind of semi coastal races where ability to progress in flukey winds matter more and sheer power matters less. Nevertheless for the Ocean race it should be a bit different and they should manage to put a weather system between them and the VO65 on several legs.

I didn't emphasize this aspect during my analysis, but around 1/3 of the race is on a beating with 15-20knts. I expect VO65 to do well in those conditions, even in terms of VMG with better angle. Maybe even faster with better position for helm ?

So the VO65 may catch up the IMOCA after Gibraltar, and be in the mix when the wind dies...

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5 minutes ago, psylophitales said:

I didn't emphasize this aspect during my analysis, but around 1/3 of the race is on a beating with 15-20knts. I expect VO65 to do well in those conditions, even in terms of VMG with better angle. Maybe even faster with better position for helm ?

So the VO65 may catch up the IMOCA after Gibraltar, and be in the mix when the wind dies...

Well, the next leg is just ~600nm with winds around 20knts which benefits the 60's. Given that it's such a short leg, we would expect that the 'rich get richer' will kick in and that the 60's will take this one by a fair margin. 

 

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23 minutes ago, drm_ovl said:

Well, the next leg is just ~600nm with winds around 20knts which benefits the 60's. Given that it's such a short leg, we would expect that the 'rich get richer' will kick in and that the 60's will take this one by a fair margin. 

 

I didn't see that ? At least using yesterday's weather forecast. Start is strong but that will be short-lived. After that, winds will be "in the face" for a long time, light at first then 15-20 - but on a beating !

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1 hour ago, drm_ovl said:

No penalty for 11th:

"11th Hour Racing Team took penalty turns on the water and has now confirmed this with Race Management through its GPS track. The protest period expired overnight with no protests filed. Therefore the results on the water are now final.

Maybe the pirouette when their compass glitched counted.  ;)

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4 minutes ago, psylophitales said:

I didn't see that ? At least using yesterday's weather forecast. Start is strong but that will be short-lived. After that, winds will be "in the face" for a long time, light at first then 15-20 - but on a beating !

Beating isn't really a problem for IMOCAs with foils, they provide righting moment without hull form, so 11th hour and Linked Out should do well (also remembering that LO is the proto super 60 intended to replace the 65s) . Beauru Valle may surprise us as its only semi scow, windy upwind for them limits any disadvantage of hull form. Einstein I'd expect to suffer amongst them as an older model, and Corum is a wild card, its a powerful hull platform, and like all aircraft carriers depends on how much it can lean on that corner ;)

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11 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Beating isn't really a problem for IMOCAs with foils, they provide righting moment without hull form, so 11th hour and Linked Out should do well (also remembering that LO is the proto super 60 intended to replace the 65s) . Beauru Valle may surprise us as its only semi scow, windy upwind for them limits any disadvantage of hull form. Einstein I'd expect to suffer amongst them as an older model, and Corum is a wild card, its a powerful hull platform, and like all aircraft carriers depends on how much it can lean on that corner ;)

I am not an expert of course ! But I wasn't thinking of righting moment, the canting keel provides a lot of righting.

When canting keels appeared on IMOCA class around ~98-99, the performance on a beat suffered and fins were added (single one at first, then one on each side like VO65 today). Are they called "fin" in english ?

The foil does provide some anti-drift effect, but I would expect the VO65 to have a better angle, and fight on VMG. But that's just an hypothesis !

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1 minute ago, psylophitales said:

I am not an expert of course ! But I wasn't thinking of righting moment, the canting keel provides a lot of righting.

When canting keels appeared on IMOCA class around ~98-99, the performance on a beat suffered and fins were added (single one at first, then one on each side like VO65 today). Are they called "fin" in english ?

The foil does provide some anti-drift effect, but I would expect the VO65 to have a better angle, and fight on VMG. But that's just an hypothesis !

From my perspective the VO65 is just a slightly longer, older, heavier IMOCA. All of its design features where things considered and adopted/rejected by the IMOCA fleet pre foils. 11th hour is a prime example of the (foiling) change as its a "thin" IMOCA compared to the 2016 fleet, it was the first designed to use foils and not hull form.

We already know that newer IMOCAS are faster than old ones in general, but that very light winds, and very heavy winds are the exception, so I'd expect the IMOCAs to dominate this race unless it's sub 10 knots, or more than 30.

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3 hours ago, psylophitales said:

 

When canting keels appeared on IMOCA class around ~98-99, the performance on a beat suffered and fins were added (single one at first, then one on each side like VO65 today). Are they called "fin" in english ?

 

They are called daggerboards.

A dagger in English is "une dague" in French. You slide the dagger straight in and out of its "sheath" (étui en Français), just like those boards in their trunks. Straight up and down.

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7 minutes ago, Laurent said:

They are called daggerboards.

A dagger in English is "une dague" in French. You slide the dagger straight in and out of its "sheath" (étui en Français), just like those boards in their trunks. Straight up and down.

Ahhh I actually knew the term but couldn't find it. Thanks so much !

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The Ocean Race published a "best of leg 1", which takes mostly new footage. I think the short video showing the boats in the winds was more appealing, but well worth your 2-3min of time:

 

 

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Marie Riou said something that caught my attention about pushing the boats.  In the solo race there are times when the skipper backs off because of conditions and what a solo sailor can handle.  Even then we saw boats break in the VG.

Now, with a crew they can push 100% all the time...like a 65, but the 65 is more designed for that pressure.  All this talk about how the IMOCAs will stretch out on the 65s on longer legs, but will they, can they last getting run at 100% all the time.

Granted, this is two fleets and they are not racing each other, but as crewed boats, they will be needing to put the hammer down more for longer times and it could over stress boats designed as solo sailing vessels for racing.  In TOR the VO65s maybe the steady eddie's, but on average they may be able to push harder, longer in strong conditions and survive.

 

The TORE is a great taste for the full meal next year and it will be intriguing to follow how well the boats survive.

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