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Guilty or Not guilty?

 

The trial of Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd will be unusual for many reasons: It will be livestreamed from Minneapolis, attendance will be severely limited because of the coronavirus, and the public’s interest in the case may make this one of the highest-profile trials in recent memory.

The trial can be watched on nytimes.com, via a livestream provided by Court TV. Opening statements are expected to begin around 10:30 a.m. Eastern on Monday. Witness testimony and lawyers’ presentation of evidence should last several weeks before the jury begins to deliberate over the verdict.

Among the people allowed in the courtroom, on the 18th floor of the Hennepin County Government Center, are the judge, jurors, witnesses, court staff, lawyers, Mr. Chauvin, and only a handful of spectators. The judge, Peter A. Cahill, wrote in an order on March 1 that only one member of Mr. Floyd’s family and one member of Mr. Chauvin’s family would be allowed in the room at any time. Two seats will be reserved for reporters, and various journalists, including from The New York Times, will rotate throughout the trial.

The lawyers, spectators, jurors and witnesses will be required to wear masks when they are not speaking. Spectators are prohibited from having any visible images, logos, letters or numbers on their masks or clothing, according to Judge Cahill’s order.

 Opening statements in the murder trial of Derek Chauvin, the former police officer charged in the death of George Floyd, begin Monday morning in a heavily fortified courthouse in downtown Minneapolis.

The trial begins 10 months after Mr. Floyd, a Black man, died last May after being held down by police officers on a South Minneapolis street corner in an episode that was captured on a cellphone video and set off protests for racial justice around the nation. Mr. Chauvin, who is white, pressed his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for more than nine minutes, ignoring Mr. Floyd’s repeated pleas that he could not breathe and his cries for his mother.

For a country that rarely holds police officers accountable for killing people on the job, especially Black people, the trial is a test of whether the criminal justice system has changed after Mr. Floyd’s death. The case is the most pivotal police brutality trial since the beating of Rodney King in Los Angeles in the early 1990s.

Against the backdrop of the ongoing struggle to reform policing and push the nation forward on matters of racial justice, the trial will be fought on the narrower grounds of toxicology reports, medical records and police training manuals. Mr. Chauvin is charged with second-degree murder, third-degree murder and manslaughter.

Above all, the case is likely to turn on one central question: What caused Mr. Floyd’s death?

The centerpiece of Mr. Chauvin’s defense strategy, as laid out in motions and pretrial arguments, is making the case that Mr. Floyd died of a drug overdose — a toxicology report showed fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system — complicated by underlying health conditions.

The prosecution will try to convince the jury that Mr. Chauvin’s knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for so long was a substantial factor in his death, regardless of the amount of drugs in his system, and his health problems.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/03/29/us/derek-chauvin-trial-live

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Why not, they had one as President.

Who knew a 9 minute video of him killing someone would result in him being found guilty of killing someone.

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6 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

You didn't really see what you think you saw. 

As if we haven't spent the last several years living through constant gaslighting. 

As we are about to learn...again.

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Mr. Floyd was probably guilty of breaking a few laws that day. Was it worthy of the death penalty? Floyd and Chauvin had worked together as night club security in the past, Chauvin knew who he was killing. Could the four officers on the scene, cuffed and stuffed him into a squad car without killing him? He was already handcuffed. 

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16 minutes ago, Voyageur said:

Mr. Floyd was probably guilty of breaking a few laws that day. Was it worthy of the death penalty? Floyd and Chauvin had worked together as night club security in the past, Chauvin knew who he was killing. Could the four officers on the scene, cuffed and stuffed him into a squad car without killing him? He was already handcuffed. 

Not sure about a "few".  He is alleged to have used a counterfeit bill to buy cigarettes.  The result of the police getting involved was his death.

In Minnesota, the highest penalty for knowingly using counterfeit money less than $1,000 is up to 1 year in prison and a fine up to $3,000.

'All from a counterfeit bill': What we know about fake currency and George Floyd's death

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I've heard people bitch about the make up of his jury.  It's got black, white, male, female, it's pretty much as close to 'representative' as it could be unless you enforced specific numbers based on where he lives.

I've heard people bitch about the fact that we've talked about the jury make-up.  Like talking about something is somehow a bad thing.

I've heard people bitch already that it went to trial too quickly.

I've heard people bitch that it took too long to go to trial.

The media sees this as a gold mine because no matter what happens, drama is going to be created.  Found guilty?  Appeal.  Found innocent?  Justice wasn't done.

It just goes on for ever.

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That was just a plain old murder regardless of what crime he had done.  They showed the full video at the trial. The guy was unconscious for 3-4 minutes while Chauvin continued to kneel on his neck. Well Before that he was completely subdued. 
 

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I don't think that guilt or innocence is even an issue in this case. It's clear what happened, and who did it. The question appears to be, what will the penalty, if there is one, for former officer Chauvin be.

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1 hour ago, Mrleft8 said:

I don't think that guilt or innocence is even an issue in this case. It's clear what happened, and who did it. The question appears to be, what will the penalty, if there is one, for former officer Chauvin be.

Just wait and see.  Derek Chauvin isn't going to be on trial, George Floyd is...at least when the defense is making its case. 

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If you did not see what happened as stone cold premeditated murder . . 

you more than likely have racial issues. 

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23 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

If you did not see what happened as stone cold premeditated murder . . 

you more than likely have racial issues. 

I don't disagree, but the defense is going to put George Floyd on trial, show that he is black and under arrest, and point out that Derek Chauvin is a police officer. I don't expect them to go full monty and argue that homicide is the killing of a human while this is...you know...but I don't reckon they'll pull up very short of that runway. And I reckon a whole lot of people in the jury of public opinion will be simpatico with that argument. 

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Last I heard, the state had something like 13 attorneys working this case where the defense has one.  I think the revolving door of prosecutors vs the one will hurt the state.  The defense attorney is likable, and I think the jury will bond with him somewhat whereas they will be confused by the lack of a personality from the prosecution.  

Any thoughts Sol?

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7 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

Last I heard, the state had something like 13 attorneys working this case where the defense has one.  I think the revolving door of prosecutors vs the one will hurt the state.  The defense attorney is likable, and I think the jury will bond with him somewhat whereas they will be confused by the lack of a personality from the prosecution.  

Any thoughts Sol?

Anyone making the argument he has to make will not be likable. Of course, if any Trumpaloons made it onto the jury that will be a positive thing. 

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17 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Of course, if any Trumpaloons made it onto the jury that will be a positive thing. 

Why oh fucking why have you gobshites gotta continually bring the stupid.

 

Familiar rise yourself with what happened to Laquan McDonald, who the jury were and the sentence the cunt who murdered that kid got.

 

And get this, not one of the criminals who corroborated Van Dyke’s false police report were charged for lying on the police reports.

 

And to add insult to injury, the then mayor of Chicago covered up the crime and what’s his potential reward?
Consideration of an ambassadorship by none other than Biden.

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

Why oh fucking why have you gobshites gotta continually bring the stupid.

 

Familiar rise yourself with what happened to Laquan McDonald, who the jury were and the sentence the cunt who murdered that kid got.

 

And get this, not one of the criminals who corroborated Van Dyke’s false police report were charged for lying on the police reports.

 

And to add insult to injury, the then mayor of Chicago covered up the crime and what’s his potential reward?
Consideration of an ambassadorship by none other than Biden.

 

 

 

 

Speaking of bringing the stupid. What's your take on the discussion at hand? Am I off base thinking you're leaning towards aquittal?

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I hadn’t seen the full 9:29 video.  It was tough to watch.  The crowd reaction was interesting, it slowly dawned on the Chauvin was killing the man in front of them.  One guy even commented on his body language (“you’re enjoying this! You’re sick!”)  They would have been right to bull rush that little POS.  They would also likely been shot dead.  

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14 minutes ago, inneedofadvice said:

Speaking of bringing the stupid. What's your take on the discussion at hand? Am I off base thinking you're leaning towards aquittal?

You must be a leftie all right.

 

For The record, I think that anyone who wasn’t and isn’t absolutely fricken disgusted by the conduct of that cunt of a cop is a cuntish festering pile of shíte.

 

This country absolutely has a policing problem, but it is not just limited to white on black crime as the media would have one think.

 

 

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The fact that you can site a couple of cases that supposedly make your point is one thing. The fact that you feel the need to is another.

Your position is that white privilege doesn't exist? The statistics and the prison population would say otherwise. 

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I was just reading an article in the Daily Beast about the trial.

Quote

A 12-person jury made up of nine women and six men...

Something's a little off there.

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2 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I was just reading an article in the Daily Beast about the trial.

Something's a little off there.

Sure is, there are XII jurors and II alternates, so XIV total.  

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Most high profile cases have alternate jurors and 2 is the norm, can impanel up to six. The alternates hear all the proceedings but don't vote unless a sitting juror is disqualified on otherwise leaves.

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16 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Most high profile cases have alternate jurors and 2 is the norm, can impanel up to six. The alternates hear all the proceedings but don't vote unless a sitting juror is disqualified on otherwise leaves.

IIRC, the alternates are excused when the jury begins deliberation, makes sense if they are not going to vote.

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5 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Just wait and see.  Derek Chauvin isn't going to be on trial, George Floyd is...at least when the defense is making its case. 

Isn't that the case for pretty much every murder defense.? Hell for every defense of anything?  I'm not saying it's right nor that I agree with it - but the defense would be negligent if they didn't try any and all ways to reduce the sentence.  Chauvin is guilty as fuck.  It's only what sentence will be that is in question.   My prediction is the jury will hang on first degree murder and they will go for a lesser sentence to get it over with rather than have to do a retrial.  

I'm just gobsmacked that he didn't take a plea deal rather than go to trial.  That's some huge stones right there with the video being prosecution exhibit A.  The prosecution should show the entire tape in opening remarks, show it again at the beginning and then rest their case.  Then show it as closing remarks.  The prosecution should never have to utter a single word or examine a witness.  Just show the tape. 

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Just now, Burning Man said:

Isn't that the case for pretty much every murder defense.? Hell for every defense of anything?  I'm not saying it's right nor that I agree with it - but the defense would be negligent if they didn't try any and all ways to reduce the sentence.  Chauvin is guilty as fuck.  It's only what sentence will be that is in question.   My prediction is the jury will hang on first degree murder and they will go for a lesser sentence to get it over with rather than have to do a retrial.  

I'm just gobsmacked that he didn't take a plea deal rather than go to trial.  That's some huge stones right there with the video being prosecution exhibit A.  The prosecution should show the entire tape in opening remarks, show it again at the beginning and then rest their case.  Then show it as closing remarks.  The prosecution should never have to utter a single word or examine a witness.  Just show the tape. 

This trial is different. We all watched the murder. I don’t think first degree is on the table, is it? I thought it was second and third. I can’t believe he didn’t take a deal either. It seems slam dunk to me but anything can happen. 
 

Watch for the juror who spoke about defunding the police.  That’ll be the one who hangs the jury. 

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6 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

This trial is different. We all watched the murder. I don’t think first degree is on the table, is it? I thought it was second and third.

2, 3, and manslaughter are on the table.  The guy's going to jail, just a matter of how long.  The jury returns a not guilty on all counts, TVs will be cheap in MSP the next day.

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Had he been anything other than a cop he probably would have copped a plea. However his legal fees will be paid by someone else and he's all but guaranteed something like a min jail term, whether it comes from the judge or a corrections parole board. 

 It wouldn't take much to convince me he didn't intend to kill the guy, that he's merely a dumbass. Tried to cheat on his taxes in the dumbest way, instead of creating questionable deductions he thought he could hide income. Not a tax-pro around who would have advised him to do that, so he either ignored advice or didn't seek any.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Chauvin 

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3 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

IIRC, the alternates are excused when the jury begins deliberation, makes sense if they are not going to vote.

Yes. I had the discomfort of sitting on a jury as an Alternate. It was actually pretty insulting to be subjected to a week of bullshit, and then told to go home without getting to vote.

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4 hours ago, inneedofadvice said:

The fact that you can site a couple of cases that supposedly make your point is one thing. The fact that you feel the need to is another.

Your position is that white privilege doesn't exist? The statistics and the prison population would say otherwise. 

Care to “cite” where I made such a claim?

 

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Is this the same Floyd guy who stuck a pistol  into some innocent gal's stomach ......and robbed her? Among 6 or 7 other convictions of misdemeanors and felonies? Wtf ever happened to the 3 Strikes law? If he was in fuking prison where he belonged.....the despicable fuking p.o.s.  would still be alive...and Milwauukee could have saved themselves a shit load of beer money.....

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2 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

Is this the same Floyd guy who stuck into some innocent gal's stomach ......and robbed her? Among 6 or 7 other convictions of misdemeanors and felonies? Wtf ever happened to the 3 Strikes law? If he was in fuking prison where he belonged.....the despicable fuking p.o.s.  would still be alive...and Milwauukee could have saved themselves a shit load of beer money.....

If it was the same guy we will not have a chance to get justice legally because a cop murdered him on camera. They should add time to Chauvin’s sentence if there are victims of Floyd’s who cannot get justice. But in order to establish that, he needs to be around. 
 

nothing justifies the way he was killed. Nothing. Especially not questions with neither answers nor evidence. 

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30 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

Is this the same Floyd guy who stuck a pistol  into some innocent gal's stomach ......and robbed her? Among 6 or 7 other convictions of misdemeanors and felonies? Wtf ever happened to the 3 Strikes law? If he was in fuking prison where he belonged.....the despicable fuking p.o.s.  would still be alive...and Milwauukee could have saved themselves a shit load of beer money.....

George Floyd is not on trial.

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1). True...nothing justifies that he died at the negligent hands of Chauvin and possibly with  manslaughterous intent....or whatever they call it.

 

2). Also true....Wisconsin and America are both better off with this p.o.s. dead. To argue otherwise would be ridiculously ridiculous. Seriously, I bet you the number of people on this planet that REALLY, TRULY & HONESTLY miss him....is less than ten.....m

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36 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

Is this the same Floyd guy who stuck a pistol  into some innocent gal's stomach ......and robbed her? Among 6 or 7 other convictions of misdemeanors and felonies? Wtf ever happened to the 3 Strikes law? If he was in fuking prison where he belonged.....the despicable fuking p.o.s.  would still be alive...and Milwauukee could have saved themselves a shit load of beer money.....

Reasonable people are pleased you’ve left the country.  Less so that you resurfaced here.

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38 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

Is this the same Floyd guy who stuck a pistol  into some innocent gal's stomach ......and robbed her? Among 6 or 7 other convictions of misdemeanors and felonies? Wtf ever happened to the 3 Strikes law? If he was in fuking prison where he belonged.....the despicable fuking p.o.s.  would still be alive...and Milwauukee could have saved themselves a shit load of beer money.....

:o

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3 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

1). True...nothing justifies that he died at the negligent hands of Chauvin and possibly with  manslaughterous intent....or whatever they call it.

 

2). Also true....Wisconsin and America are both better off with this p.o.s. dead. To argue otherwise would be ridiculously ridiculous. Seriously, I bet you the number of people on this planet that REALLY, TRULY & HONESTLY miss him....is less than ten.....m

Yer missing the big picture mate.

 

You simply cannot claim this country to be the “land of the free” when the police behave like SS troopers.

 

you’re going to have to make a choice, We all are.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

1). True...nothing justifies that he died at the negligent hands of Chauvin and possibly with  manslaughterous intent....or whatever they call it.

 

2). Also true....Wisconsin and America are both better off with this p.o.s. dead. To argue otherwise would be ridiculously ridiculous. Seriously, I bet you the number of people on this planet that REALLY, TRULY & HONESTLY miss him....is less than ten.....m

Did you here on the vid where Floyd is still conscious and pleading and Chauvin says, "get in the car man, you can't win" and Floyd says I will or something to that effect. Chauvin was taunting him. 

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28 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

George Floyd is not on trial.

No he's not....he's just dead. And Wisconsin is a much better place because of his absence.

 

Wouldn't you agree? Or are you one of those George Gascòn fans?....

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5 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

No he's not....he's just dead. And Wisconsin is a much better place because of his absence.

 

Wouldn't you agree? Or are you one of those George Gascòn fans?....

I know nothing of the man. It's not relevant what his past was. And unless it's shown that Chauvin did know (which would make it worse for him) neither did the cop who killed him.

Start another thread about justifying vigilantes if you must.

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1 minute ago, Shortforbob said:

IAnd unless it's shown that Chauvin did know (which would make it worse for him) neither did the cop who killed him.

At one time, they worked security or some such thing together.  Whether either remembered isn't clear to me but it was mentioned by the commentators on Court TV today.  

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36 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

His brain has been pickled by Tequila.  Minneapolis, Milwaukee Mobile, they all start with M he can’t tell the difference.

Lol

 

Hey zits for brains, you do know that the riots that occurred as a result of that tit, Chauvin’s actions were devastating for many communities including Wisconsin.

Personally, I’ve witnessed some horrific acts of terror by the black lives thugs in Chicago, many of the businesses which were destroyed by those pieces of shit were black owned businesses.

 

You be a special kinda dope.

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7 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

At one time, they worked security or some such thing together.  Whether either remembered isn't clear to me but it was mentioned by the commentators on Court TV today.  

Hmm, says he was paid by the club to sit outside in a squad car. Isn't that illegal?

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10 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Hmm, says he was paid by the club to sit outside in a squad car. Isn't that illegal?

I was referring to the fact that Floyd and Chauvin's paths had crossed previously.  Unaware of what you said above.  

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53 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

Yer missing the big picture mate.

 

You simply cannot claim this country to be the “land of the free” when the police behave like SS troopers.

 

you’re going to have to make a choice, We all are.

 

 

I'll take the 15 or 21 or 27 or so 'negligent' police shootings per annum over the 400-500 murdered blacks by other blacks in Shitcago....any day of the year.

 

And Shitcago's annual murder rate? Is proof positive that BLM....is a complete sham.....

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11 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

IAnd Shitcago's annual murder rate? Is proof positive that BLM....is a complete sham.....

Chicago's murder rate isn't that bad.  I doubt it's in the top 10 of the larger cities in the US.  Keep in mind the divisor is a very large number.  If you only consider South Chicago, sure, it's pretty bad.  

Edit:

https://rapidcityjournal.com/news/national/the-30-cities-with-the-highest-murder-rates-in-the-us/collection_0e7dd367-2f62-5822-b849-97f4e9a43e3d.html#7

Chicago's rate is less than West Palm Beach!

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1 hour ago, El Mariachi said:

Is this the same Floyd guy who stuck a pistol  into some innocent gal's stomach ......and robbed her? Among 6 or 7 other convictions of misdemeanors and felonies? Wtf ever happened to the 3 Strikes law? If he was in fuking prison where he belonged.....the despicable fuking p.o.s.  would still be alive...and Milwauukee could have saved themselves a shit load of beer money.....

Welcome back!  But Minneapolis ain't Milwaukee. Pretty sure no 3-strikes in Minnie-ville. You know, all those white meth kids, would hate to lock them up forever.

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19 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

And Shitcago's annual murder rate? Is proof positive that BLM....is a complete sham.....

condescending, and convenient (for you) bullshit. you're entitled to your opinions...

this 'murder trial' is a formality.

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16 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

I'll take the 15 or 21 or 27 or so 'negligent' police shootings per annum over the 400-500 murdered blacks by other blacks in Shitcago....any day of the year.

 

And Shitcago's annual murder rate? Is proof positive that BLM....is a complete sham.....

But you see, it isn’t just “15 or 21 or 27 or so ‘negligent’ police shootings” 

it is the countless thousands of cases of abuse by police that go unreported and unpunished that are the problem. The unprofessionalism  of the police in this country is astounding and Personally, I’ve ceased involving police in any of the crimes committed against me and mine because in the vast majority of the instances they do nothing but exacerbate the problem.

I’ve lived on 4 continents and I can assure you that the conduct of the police in the USA is atrocious by any metric and I believe that the fatal flaw the BLM movement made was in making this issue solely about race, it is not. It is a human rights crisis which concerns all of us and which has the potential to endanger any of us and our country, regardless of color.

 

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8 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

condescending, and convenient (for you) bullshit. you're entitled to your opinions...

this 'murder trial' is a formality.

Are you disagreeing with the poster about the severity of the violence problem in Chicago?
 

Ever been shot at?

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14 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

Are you disagreeing with the poster about the severity of the violence problem in Chicago?
 

Ever been shot at?

I'm not disagreeing, sounds like a lot crazy shit happens there, and I've had a snub nose 38 put up directly to my neck for about three seconds once. how does black on black violence in chicago reflect on the legitimacy of a national racial rights movement? 

people pull too much shit out there asses to suit their narratives, it's especially bad with right-wingers and BLM/antifa, dumbfucks will even do it with environmentalists who fight the ultimate good fight. I'm over confused scum like that.

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6 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

Chicago's murder rate isn't that bad.  I doubt it's in the top 10 of the larger cities in the US.  Keep in mind the divisor is a very large number.  If you only consider South Chicago, sure, it's pretty bad.  

Edit:

https://rapidcityjournal.com/news/national/the-30-cities-with-the-highest-murder-rates-in-the-us/collection_0e7dd367-2f62-5822-b849-97f4e9a43e3d.html#7

Chicago's rate is less than West Palm Beach!

Detroit has a pretty distinguished place on that list. Must be the fault of Detroit gun owners, huh?

As for Chauvin, he was just kicking ass and taking names and cops need the freedom to do that without facing personal liability, or so I hear.

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1 hour ago, Shambolic Tom said:

Detroit has a pretty distinguished place on that list. Must be the fault of Detroit gun owners, huh?

Are you serious?  We're 3rd, only a bronze medal and each year things are getting worse.  Distinguished?  We used to own that competition, fucking 3rd my ass.  It definitely isn't due to registered gun owners but we have the same issues as Chicago with a lot fewer people.  Couple of hot summer weekends, and we should be able to make up some ground.  I hang out at the airport and give visitors directions to the worst parts of town hoping to inject a little bump into the numbers, but that doesn't feel very fair.  

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3 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

This is an experiment on a grand scale.


"Can a white cop murder a black man live on video and get away with it"?  I am not 100% sure the answer is no.

I think the answer is most likely "yes" to that question, which is why I ask the question a few posts above.  Is a black man a person? Non-persons don't have rights. To those who see blacks as sub-human, is killing blacks even homicide? I would hope that the answer is a unanimous yes, but in looking at this thread I'm not sure. In looking at that crowd that stormed our Capitol, beat and maced cops, and smeared shit on the place, I honestly don't know the answer. 

I said early on in this thread that it would be Floyd, not Chauvin that gets put on trial, and we're already seeing it in this thread. 

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4 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Are black people human?

1). Of course they are. Just like white people.

 

2). This Chauvin fuker however? Nope, not even g-damn close. Not sure nor decided yet what sort of punishment he should receive.....but a one-way trip on Elon's next malfunctioning rocket would suit me just fine....

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9 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

1). Of course they are. Just like white people.

 

2). This Chauvin fuker however? Nope, not even g-damn close. Not sure nor decided yet what sort of punishment he should receive.....but a one-way trip on Elon's next malfunctioning rocket would suit me just fine....

Judgment is best left to the courts and the rule of law. We don't have any idea what George Floyd did with his life, other than the baby girl he left behind and that he worked security at a club.  We basically know nothing about him, but a judge would when he handed down a sentence after a jury verdict. I dare say nothing in his past merited the non-judicial sentence he received over what may have been a bogus 20 dollar bill. If I could go through Professor Peabody's Wayback Machine I'd go give the shopkeeper his 20 bucks to avoid all of this. 

Chauvin? I'll be shocked if he is convicted of anything. I am betting on a hung jury. If he walks, I'll feel pretty much like I did about OJ. Just another murderous asshole moving to Florida to avoid creditors....   If he is convicted, he won't get enough time to being George Floyd back, or to give his family justice. 

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4 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Chauvin? I'll be shocked if he is convicted of anything. I am betting on a hung jury. 

He deserves guilty of 2nd, I have read the definition and still have no clue what 3rd means, the jury will opt for manslaughter as a bail out.  It will allow all to claim victory, the honest jurors can say at least he didn't walk, the hooded members can say, at least he didn't get convicted of murder.  Sucks, but he'll get a 5-10yr sentence and never work in law enforcement again.  

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Just now, Cal20sailor said:

He deserves guilty of 2nd, I have read the definition and still have no clue what 3rd means, the jury will opt for manslaughter as a bail out.  It will allow all to claim victory, the honest jurors can say at least he didn't walk, the hooded members can say, at least he didn't get convicted of murder.  Sucks, but he'll get a 5-10yr sentence and never work in law enforcement again be appointed as Georgia Secretary of State.  

Cynical, I am.

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Just now, Cal20sailor said:

He deserves guilty of 2nd, I have read the definition and still have no clue what 3rd means, the jury will opt for manslaughter as a bail out.  It will allow all to claim victory, the honest jurors can say at least he didn't walk, the hooded members can say, at least he didn't get convicted of murder.  Sucks, but he'll get a 5-10yr sentence and never work in law enforcement again.  

Are you sure? When I lived in Mn, our HS Swim Coach ran over 2 girls on his team, at 2am. Hit and run. Caught him when he went in to get his car fixed from "hitting a deer"

He got off on the "I was drunk" defense. 

He was hired as the swim coach in a nearby town.

 

Let's not bring up our favorite LEO in Lake County, Ca. Plenty of folks and departments like a law-n-order copper.

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12 hours ago, 3to1 said:

I'm not disagreeing, sounds like a lot crazy shit happens there, and I've had a snub nose 38 put up directly to my neck for about three seconds once. how does black on black violence in chicago reflect on the legitimacy of a national racial rights movement? 

people pull too much shit out there asses to suit their narratives, it's especially bad with right-wingers and BLM/antifa, dumbfucks will even do it with environmentalists who fight the ultimate good fight. I'm over confused scum like that.

Kinda ironic blaming right wingers when clearly there in an epidemic of black crime in this country.

 

Approximately 15% of the population of this country (African American) commit the majority of the crime. Black on white crime is far more prevalent than white on black crime. This is an indisputable fact, yet if the extremists in the media were to be believed, the opposite is true.

 

I have a friend who used to teach in an inner city public school and in conversation once after he resigned he told me why. He said that he had ceased to be a teacher and was relegated to the job of babysitter and according to him, that wouldn’t be so bad because the pay and benefits of being a Chicago public school teacher were great but that he found it heartbreaking that whilst the majority of the kids didn’t want to learn, there was a sizable minority who did but couldn’t because the hands of a teacher are tied when it comes to disciplining. 
 We desperately need to change the schooling model, we need curtail the power of unions and we need to bring back discipline. We need to encourage youth who fall academically for whatever reason to consider trade schools. And we need to invest more in said schools.

 

Remember, Anytime we’ve a problem that needs fixing the first step to recovery is to admit we have a problem. Like the junkies whoring their bodies on the streets, the left is a long way from getting to the first of their 12 step program and until they get there the right are not going to change their approach.

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2 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

 

Hard to say if that was a Red Herring or a Faulty Analogy:

  • Red Herring: responding with a fact that seems important but isn’t really related to the argument
  • Faulty Analogy: a good analogy helps explain something. A faulty analogy works about the same way as a Straw Man argument because it makes you think you’re arguing against one thing when really you’re arguing against something else.
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38 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

Kinda ironic blaming right wingers when clearly there in an epidemic of black crime in this country.

 

Approximately 15% of the population of this country (African American) commit the majority of the crime. Black on white crime is far more prevalent than white on black crime. This is an indisputable fact, yet if the extremists in the media were to be believed, the opposite is true.

 

I have a friend who used to teach in an inner city public school and in conversation once after he resigned he told me why. He said that he had ceased to be a teacher and was relegated to the job of babysitter and according to him, that wouldn’t be so bad because the pay and benefits of being a Chicago public school teacher were great but that he found it heartbreaking that whilst the majority of the kids didn’t want to learn, there was a sizable minority who did but couldn’t because the hands of a teacher are tied when it comes to disciplining. 
 We desperately need to change the schooling model, we need curtail the power of unions and we need to bring back discipline. We need to encourage youth who fall academically for whatever reason to consider trade schools. And we need to invest more in said schools.

 

Remember, Anytime we’ve a problem that needs fixing the first step to recovery is to admit we have a problem. Like the junkies whoring their bodies on the streets, the left is a long way from getting to the first of their 12 step program and until they get there the right are not going to change their approach.

kind of ironic deflecting from all the grievous moral failings of the true evil shit bags in this cuntry; the 'merican right.

the left aren't the problem, they don't steer the nonsense and idiocy that the right has brought to the table. 

this will sound rash to you and some others here, but I stand by it;  f u c k  the gop, a great many things are complicated, that's not one of them.

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43 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

He deserves guilty of 2nd, I have read the definition and still have no clue what 3rd means, the jury will opt for manslaughter as a bail out.  It will allow all to claim victory, the honest jurors can say at least he didn't walk, the hooded members can say, at least he didn't get convicted of murder.  Sucks, but he'll get a 5-10yr sentence and never work in law enforcement again.  

I know we’d all like to see him punished, but I think 2nd may be tough to convict on. Convicting on 3rd seems like a walk in the park. 

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If Chauvin is acquitted, all hell is going to break loose. Only takes one juror. 
 

edit : strike that last sentence. 

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12 minutes ago, Sean said:

If Chauvin is acquitted, all hell is going to break loose. Only takes one juror. 

Acquitted takes them all I think. But hung jury? I see that as the likely outcome. 

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30 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

kind of ironic deflecting from all the grievous moral failings of the true evil shit bags in this cuntry; the 'merican right.

the left aren't the problem, they don't steer the nonsense and idiocy that the right has brought to the table. 

this will sound rash to you and some others here, but I stand by it;  f u c k  the gop, a great many things are complicated, that's not one of them.

I see,

This is what happens when you live in a bubble.

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59 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Hard to say if that was a Red Herring or a Faulty Analogy:

  • Red Herring: responding with a fact that seems important but isn’t really related to the argument
  • Faulty Analogy: a good analogy helps explain something. A faulty analogy works about the same way as a Straw Man argument because it makes you think you’re arguing against one thing when really you’re arguing against something else.

It must be very  difficult for you to breathe with your head stuck so far up your arse.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

I see,

This is what happens when you live in a bubble.

you talk a lot of shit, right-winger.

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2 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

you talk a lot of shit, right-winger.

I’m no fan of the cops but you’re going to have to begin to understand their perspective if you ever hope to get beyond the bullshite narrative you’ve been fed by your version of FOX ‘News’

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I don't feed on bs, and I don't outright dismiss pigs. 

wtf are you doing, trying to score ideology points? you can't 'win'.

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17 minutes ago, Sean said:

Hard to watch this man die. 

Agreed.  Haven't watched the whole video until today.  One thing's for sure, the prosecution has been kneeling on Chauvin's NG plea all day.  Why he kept kneeling on his neck while Floyd was clearly out is beyond me.  Anything less than 2nd degree is a travesty.  Why would the cops check for a pulse while Chauvin continues to kneel on his neck is beyond comprehension.  The other 3 cops on the scene should be facing felony charges as well.  Imagine if they showed up on a scene where a citizen is similarly kneeling on someone's neck and they choose to do nothing and that victim dies?

 

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