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Comparison of 12,16 foot skiffs, int14’s and 49ers?


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The comparison goes beyond merely sailing them. Indeed, in Australia, the choice between them probably has the least to do with their sailing qualities.

Do you a want a sponsored boat?

Do you want one design? SMOD?

Do you like playing around with fittings?

Do you want to win prize money to help  cover costs?

Do you want a rig for every condition or just deal with the one rig?

In Australia at least, it we are talking skiffs with at least two wires, you'd have to add 18fters and Formula Fifteens and maybe even VS's

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Speed comparison is difficult because in Australia there is almost no mixed class racing, at least not between the top end of each class. AFIK the last time the skiff classes got together was a combined regatta including nationals in Geelong, 12 years ago. The 12s, 14s, and 16 each held separate regattas but sailed together on the same course in one practice race. In 10-12kts and smooth water the best 16s were clearly ahead and the best 14s slightly ahead of the best 12s.

Normally the 16s race in their own 6 clubs around Sydney, the 12s in three different clubs on different waters around Sydney and the 14s race in Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth. Except there are a few of each in Brisbane. Not sure if they ever race together. 49ers gather around Nationally funded coaching squads and have occasional regattas but I do not think that are raced regularly in any clubs, certainly not around Sydney.

None are easy to sail, but rewarding when sailed well. The 12s are regaded the most challenging, always have been. I have great memories of racing 12s  but have not sailed the others.

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The 12's are a blast to watch.   They are ridiculous, in a good sort of way.   They appear to be to skiffs what 'sinkers' are to windsurfers....meaning there really isn't enough boat to support the crew and rig that you have piled on top of it, so unless you are planing, I'd expect that you really have no stability.   I say this only through observation, not experience.     Its amazing that they work, and I'd imagine that they are really unforgiving and require quite a bit of talent, practice, and teamwork to sail well.

I've sailed I-14s, an RS800, and a 29er.   All are great fun to sail.   On the performance spectrum, I've only had time on older boats, now considered lower performance.   However, unless you are racing against a new boat, the old ones are still a blast to sail, and far faster than most any other dinghy I know of.   Up until last year, we had an old One Design 14 for several years, which I sailed with my sons.   It was 1990's technology, heavy, and pretty tired.   However, once the chute was up and two of us were on the wire, WOW, it was a hoot.   We all learned a lot from the boat and had fun blasting around our bay.   It likely would not win any races against a modern skiff, but it was very entertaining.

Wiserbud, I see your profile lists you as in Vermont, what part of the state do you sail in?

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13 hours ago, Rambler said:

The comparison goes beyond merely sailing them. Indeed, in Australia, the choice between them probably has the least to do with their sailing qualities.

Do you a want a sponsored boat?

Do you want one design? SMOD?

Do you like playing around with fittings?

Do you want to win prize money to help  cover costs?

Do you want a rig for every condition or just deal with the one rig?

In Australia at least, it we are talking skiffs with at least two wires, you'd have to add 18fters and Formula Fifteens and maybe even VS's

Also "Do you want to try and go to the Olympics?" and  "Who do you want to sail with/against?"

 

If the answer to the first question is "no", well, 49ers are great boats and I will forever <3 pure one-design sailing, but they're overwhelmingly sailed by early 20-somethings with O aspirations... If this is not you, consider your options!  Skiffs and especially development classes like 14s do require a lot of knowledge convection to sail well.  Having other well-sailed boats around is important to help you learn/develop your boat and yourself.  

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I'm surprised so many people in the US are familiar with the 12's, let alone 16's

I thought they were limited to Australia/NZ.

8 hours ago, Phil S said:

Speed comparison is difficult because in Australia there is almost no mixed class racing, at least not between the top end of each class. AFIK the last time the skiff classes got together was a combined regatta including nationals in Geelong, 12 years ago. The 12s, 14s, and 16 each held separate regattas but sailed together on the same course in one practice race. In 10-12kts and smooth water the best 16s were clearly ahead and the best 14s slightly ahead of the best 12s.

Normally the 16s race in their own 6 clubs around Sydney, the 12s in three different clubs on different waters around Sydney and the 14s race in Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth. Except there are a few of each in Brisbane. Not sure if they ever race together. 49ers gather around Nationally funded coaching squads and have occasional regattas but I do not think that are raced regularly in any clubs, certainly not around Sydney.

 

Darling Point in Qld held a skiff super regatta five or more years ago. I can't clearly recall how they grouped them, but remember the 18's were out on their own, 16's next but with the top 15's beating the slower 16's and the 12's all coming in behind. Nothing all that surprising except the overlap between the 16 and 15 fleet (in lighter winds in this case).

But the extra thing you've raised is considering who you're racing.

I presently sail a 15 ( https://www.facebook.com/Australian15footers ) and we have a decent one design fleet of them racing at our club. It makes it a lot more fun and the very fact of the close OD racing (actually, let me call it single class racing, because I'm not isolating out the development classes in this comment) feeds the interest of others to join in. Although the division is a mixed gennaker fleet (15's, RS100 and a single 49erFX), no one really pays attention to the overall results, everyone really focuses on how they are doing among their own OD boats with the FX essentially just doing time trials.

But, that leads on to some other considerations...

  • What's the waterway like. What's good for a big open bay is not necessarily good in a river. We're in a river and the 15's a perfect. A 12 could well spend half its time driven onto a sandbank under kite.
  • How tolerant are you of the obsolesce that can go with a development class.

But everyone has avoided the OP's question; no doubt because no one has sailed all the boats. As someone who grew up and spent his formative sailing years in the original home of three of the classes - Sydney - and spent a number of years in 18's let me offer the following personal observations (not suggesting others won't have different and equally valid opinions)

  • I never liked the 12's. Too little boat under too much sail
  • The 16's never appealed either. If I sailing a skiff I want to skipper from the wire. The three man, two wire format never appealed. But they are probably the most successful class of the above in terms of fleet racing at the moment.
  • Always liked the 14's from a distance (they were rare in Sydney - more a Melbourne thing [intercity rivalry for those unfamiliar with Australian peculiarities]) but very expensive to run competitively. I'm too old to want to take them on now:rolleyes:. Although our 15's were designed as a toned down OD alternative.
  • I always admired the 49er. The original rigs and hulls were a bit fragile, but they seemed to have sorted all that out. Maybe too big and fast for our river. But more broadly, I'm put off by the virtual complete absence in Australia of regular club fleet racing. I'm not into Olympics, I just want to be able to go down to my club every Sunday, pull out a boat I don't have to spend half my life fixing [not a comment specifically directed at the 49er] and enjoy good close racing with a group of similar enough boats that we don't need ratings to tell us who sailed well.  

Shoot away

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In defence of 12s:

In two Sydney clubs they race up the Parramatta River dodging headlands, ferrys and moorings. This is where the class statred and where there was once hundreds of them. They cope well enough with river conditions.

I sailed them in the 1970s and then did the Geelong regatta 30 yeras later. The earlier boats were much more challenging, lower freeboard and convenional spinnaker poles 15ft long. The modern boats are very stable and very simple by comparison but the rigs are much bigger. There are several existing 12 sailors who I raced against in the 1970s and who have stayed with the class for all those years in between. They earn your loyalty.

Easter: https://www.sail-world.com/news/236339/2021-Australian-12ft-Skiff-Championship-preview

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I have a modern 14 and a beater 29er

The modern 14 requires both strength and skill to sail, and that only gets you started. I'm on my physical downward spiral, and the 14 takes everything I've got and then some.

I have the 29er to sail with my kids, and to take out on the bay when I look out there and it looks too nasty for the 14. I can take a newbie dinghy guy out on the 29er in 18 knots and get around without ditching the boat. And while it's not the pure adrenalin rush of the 14, it still leaves a grin.

Think Formula 1 vs. Mustang. 

 

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41 minutes ago, Phil S said:

In defence of 12s:

In two Sydney clubs they race up the Parramatta River dodging headlands, ferrys and moorings. This is where the class statred and where there was once hundreds of them. They cope well enough with river conditions.

 

Fair comment for Sydney Harbour.

But there the NE'er funnels along the river fairly accurately

On ours it doesn't do such a good job of funneling and the stronger gusts come off the hot heated flood plain from almost due north (over a ENE trending leg of the river) giving a sudden 30 degree knock. Many a very quick spinnaker takedown is required.

 

But hey, at least I've started people discussing the specific boats:rolleyes:

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25 minutes ago, Raz&#x27;r said:

 

I have the 29er to sail with my kids, and to take out on the bay when I look out there and it looks too nasty for the 14. I can take a newbie dinghy guy out on the 29er in 18 knots and get around without ditching the boat. And while it's not the pure adrenalin rush of the 14, it still leaves a grin.

 

 

I had a 29er I bought to sail with my kids too.

Raced it for nearly a decade.

An absolute blast in stronger winds. Just about as much fun as you can have in a boat (epecialy once you learn the technique for heavy weather righting).

On the other hand a dog downwind in light airs. Completely frustrating on a river when sailing against the tide in below 10 knots.

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1 hour ago, Rambler said:

I had a 29er I bought to sail with my kids too.

Raced it for nearly a decade.

An absolute blast in stronger winds. Just about as much fun as you can have in a boat (epecialy once you learn the technique for heavy weather righting).

On the other hand a dog downwind in light airs. Completely frustrating on a river when sailing against the tide in below 10 knots.

You need to put your crew on the bow and get as far forward as you can. They actually go pretty well then, but you won't feel very comfortable.

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I have sailed all of these boats and they are very different in how you have to sail them. The big thing is about weight and inertia. The bigger boats - 16's and 18's, its about keeping the hull under the rig. While that is so for all boats, it is what happens when you don't that causes issues and the size and weight of the rig determines how much inertia you are fighting to get the boat back to upright. The way the boats react in a gust is also very different, again due to weight. Again, 16's and 18's feel like far bigger boats (which they are!). Because of this they take longer to respond but when they respond...... I personally think the bigger boats are easier to sail, until it goes wrong when the chances of recovery become far less (inertia). 16's, being so narrow compared with 18's, present their own challenge.

Another thing to consider is that the 12,16 and 18 have different sizes of rig for different conditions. This helps considerably compared with the 14 or 49er, but get caught out with too big a rig and you are in trouble. I know from my 18 days that I capsized far more with the big rig than the small one. The day we got caught out with the big rig in 25-26 knots was more difficult than the day the fleet got hit with 40 knots on a small rig (rigs have got bigger since my days).

Another thing to consider is the difference between sailing a 2 and 3 man boat. I personally found it a lot harder to get the crew work slick in 3 man boats.

Which do I prefer? I couldn't choose. Great memories of all of them. I only had a few rides on 12's and 16's, and I have always wanted to sail the 12's more. 16's and 18's have the very best skiff club racing in the world. 49ers have the best international circuit. If I was in the UK, I would sail 14's in Chichester harbour. In fact, you can't go wrong with any of them, but they all have one problem - they don't foil, so i will stick to my foiling A, like I am sure Phil will stick with his Moth.:D

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What a great thread!!!  And its the perfect introduction to the 4th Annual Asymmetric Weekend being held on the last weekend of August at Hunters Hill Sailing Club, Inner West Harbour, Sydney where you can come along and settle some of these debates if not once and for all, for just a moment!!

In 2020 we weren't able to run the regatta externally, which was a shame because the 18's were coming to use the weekend as a shakedown ahead of their season proper commencing a couple of weeks later ... oh, and they'd heard that the F18 cat guys were talking up putting two 16' logos on the hulls like a WW2 fighter pilot after smoking them in 2019 ... time for some good natured score settling!!  The Nacra15 kids are keen to race some 12's as well, given most Saturday afternoon's turns into a bit of a downwind speedfest when the kids are training and the 12's are racing out of Lane Cove!

The 16's have been great supporters of the event to date, with Lancelin Ropes, Adco and others coming down for a sail ... and one yer they dragged the Manly 13's kids down as well!

Hunters Hill Sailing Club supported by BoatCrewGear.com and BoatRopes.com.au are delighted to present the 2021  “Asymmetric River & Sprints”  racing weekend, on 28/29 August 2021. With Covid 19 restrictions, we've changed the format from training on Saturday, racing on Sunday, to a long river course race on Saturday afternoon, and a sprint day on Sunday.  We've dropped the entry fee to $30 per boat, which includes a regatta shirt and a BBQ post racing both days.

We had such a good time in 2019, with Ants, Nacra15's, 29ers, 49ers, 16' skiffs, F16s, F18's and a Weta all blasting around the bay in rock star conditions from the south east!!  Check out Adco's great video here https://www.facebook.com/ADCOconstructions16ftSkiffTeam/videos/2311371505627526/

This weekend is all about dusting off your fast off the beach asymmetric rigged weapon of choice, and heading out in the late Winter weather to kick off your 2021/22 campaign!!!  

Is it serious??  Sort of - we just love seeing fast boats out in the Bay blasting around with folks having an awesome time!!!  And who knows, the people you meet might just be your next crew or skipper some time down the track!!!

What this is not … a grimly serious, overly briefed yawnfest … lets get out and sail!!!! Especially after we have been locked up for so long!!   HHSC now has a really vibrant squad of 29ers, Nacra 15's, 49ers and a FX, and we look forward to welcoming you down to the Club, in a safe and sensible way!!

We will be having a BBQ after sailing on both days, so please come along and enjoy the fun. Our new downstairs canteen will be open as well!

Do come along and enjoy racing on the waters adjacent to Hunters Hill Sailing Club.

Saturday 28th August and Sunday 29th August 2020
$30.00 (inc GST) per boat for Saturday River racing and Sunday sprints

https://www.huntershillsailingclub.org.au/events/91344/

 

Rambler - lets get those 15's down for the weekend!!! 

 

Cheers

Stanno

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I14’s are in their own category in my mind. Complicated. Everything is adjustable on the fly. To the point that they have taken a 10 variable problem and increased it to 20 or more. At times it can become a mindfuck. Can we go faster if we pull this? Are we going slower because the angle of this is wrong or is it the tension?

 

They are very cool boats to look at on land. People spend ridiculous amounts of time & money setting them up. I prefer to sail. 

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23 hours ago, Raz'r said:
39 minutes ago, CaptainAhab said:

I14’s are in their own category in my mind. Complicated. Everything is adjustable on the fly. To the point that they have taken a 10 variable problem and increased it to 20 or more. At times it can become a mindfuck. Can we go faster if we pull this? Are we going slower because the angle of this is wrong or is it the tension?

 

They are very cool boats to look at on land. People spend ridiculous amounts of time & money setting them up. I prefer to sail. 

 

 

Not all 14's are complicated, especially if you understand the systems. Remember we are limited to one rig across the entire range on a narrow beam boat.

You need to tweak some things sooner or later to keep on her feet. Not to the extent of a 505/FD/Star, but yes, we rake, we adjust rig tension, and we use a t-foil.

I've sailed both the 14, 49er, and 18. The 14 is definitely the most tunable of the bunch mainly b/c it has been limited to it's dimensions.

Things would be simpler if it was longer/wider/etc but that's not what the 14 is about. It's about squeezing as much as you can get out of its restricted parameters. Boat handling and tuning go hand in hand in this class.

 

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38 minutes ago, Irrational 14 said:

Not all 14's are complicated, especially if you understand the systems. Remember we are limited to one rig across the entire range on a narrow beam boat.

You need to tweak some things sooner or later to keep on her feet. Not to the extent of a 505/FD/Star, but yes, we rake, we adjust rig tension, and we use a t-foil.

I've sailed both the 14, 49er, and 18. The 14 is definitely the most tunable of the bunch mainly b/c it has been limited to it's dimensions.

Things would be simpler if it was longer/wider/etc but that's not what the 14 is about. It's about squeezing as much as you can get out of its restricted parameters. Boat handling and tuning go hand in hand in this class.

 

Also to add, it's pretty apparent when one of your gears is "off"

Boat loads up, get's a bit cantankerous. A couple small adjustments and it's back in the groove. Not to say you can't spend an infinite amount of time trying to get that last, elusive 5%, and some at the top most definitely do, but for the main part of the bell curve of 14ers, it's get it close and sail.

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3 hours ago, CaptainAhab said:

I14’s are in their own category in my mind. Complicated. Everything is adjustable on the fly. To the point that they have taken a 10 variable problem and increased it to 20 or more. At times it can become a mindfuck. Can we go faster if we pull this? Are we going slower because the angle of this is wrong or is it the tension?

 

They are very cool boats to look at on land. People spend ridiculous amounts of time & money setting them up. I prefer to sail. 

To add to the comments above, the 14 rig really isn't any different from, say, the 49er. There is an optimum setting for the rig. If you are off on those settings, you can be anything from slow to being very hard to sail. With the 49er, you have to set the rig before each race and if conditions change, there is nothing you can do. If you are sailing back to back races in a 49er and conditions change during race 1, you had better be able to make changes on the water in between races, because if you cannot, you will be beaten by somebody who can. All a 14's set up does is make it easier to make those changes, and enable you to make them while racing, so that you no longer sail around wishing you were on different settings. 

And as Raz'r says, a couple of small changes can make a big difference. My experience suggests that if you need to make more than the simple changes during a typical length of race we sail these days, it's not worth the messing about. On a long race like the Prince of Wales, maybe its another matter.

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21 hours ago, Stanno said:

 

Rambler - lets get those 15's down for the weekend!!! 

 

Cheers

Stanno

 

 

I've sent a note about it to our fleet. I'll see what interest I can generate.

Mind you I'm just in the late stages of planning for our Nationals, starting tomorrow up here.

I tell you what though, transfer it to Easter and I can just about guarantee we come every year. With fleets in Ballina and Melbourne, we're always looking for a location for the Nationals half way. Especially one that won't charge a bankrupting fee to run something for 8 to 10 boats (hint, there not a lot of possibilities). And for various reasons we can't do Christmas, which leaves us with Easter. Even just looking for someone's regatta in that area we can hitch ourselves too (while we like to win, we're not that precious about it).

Yea, I know a big ask. But hey,sometimes you fly a kite and get hit by lightening.

Cheers

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18's are one design hulls and in Sydney race out of one club and you have to commit to every weekend top level competition but as said above once things start to go wrong there is no coming back.

16's are one design hulls and raced at clubs that provide weekly prizemoney.  Good fleets but I would hate to think what would happen to them if the prize money dried up

14's complicated and expensive but truely international competition

12's Can be expensive to start but the wear and tear is spread over several rigs, some hulls are over 20 years old and still competitive.  Are a blast to sail and as with all skiffs they teach you a lot.  Also for the tinkerers you can do pretty much anything you want.  Most of the fleet have moved to carbon rod rigging as it is cheaper and you can build it yourself.

49's No club racing in Sydney but you get to race against Olympians but the average Joe would be thrashed, which would be disheartening

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On 3/30/2021 at 1:26 PM, wiserbud said:

I would love to hear comparisons on these popular Skiffs.

ease of sail, speeds in various wind strengths and at various point of sail? 

None of them would be easy to sail if the crew haven't sailed these boats there is a bit of a learning curve.

As for speed the New Zealand R Class might surprise all of them in the right conditions. A 12 with little rig would measure up in R class then add hydrofoils.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqeUajffthE

 

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On 3/31/2021 at 10:52 AM, Raz&#x27;r said:

You need to put your crew on the bow and get as far forward as you can. They actually go pretty well then, but you won't feel very comfortable.

The issue in a river is that with a 3 to 4 knot tide, there's no fudging heating up when its tide against wind. You go backwards even if it feels like you're sailing well across the tide.

We sat forward, but still couldn't get enough speed to go out and play in the tide until the wind was above 12 knots.

What we ended up having to do was run the shallows dead square (or nearly so, but then having to short gybe constantly), board up (to access the shallowest water) in among the NS14's. Sometimes even trying to goose wing the kite (rarely successfully), skipper standing at mast, crew on foredeck. Very wobbly, but just not fun and in a couple of light seasons as they go.

The Fifteens, like all of the above classes, are much more powerful and can play in the tide at 5 knots of wind. You might be soaking, but doing better than running square and still making reasonable progress.

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Got the TV stations to cover our Fifteen Nationals held over Easter.

Here's a first day sample held in difficult conditions (they seem to like it when things go wrong). But we weren't the ones responsible for them overstating the importance of the event :rolleyes:

https://www.nbnnews.com.au/2021/04/03/national-championships-get-underway-on-the-richmond-river/

Sailed on the first day on a section of the river some 200 meters wide (our SE course), the bay sailing visitors had to learn quickly what it meant to tack and gybe sixteen odd times in every work and run. But made for some exciting racing and entertained the watchers. They should duplicate the format for the Olympics. Would make for much better TV,

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8 hours ago, JulianB said:

You should follow the Port McQuarie model.

Regardless where the next day's clip???

You asked for it

https://www.nbnnews.com.au/2021/04/04/sailors-battle-wind-for-sailing-national-championships/

Actually drone footage of the first day with me simply having provided them with a brief summary of the day. Journalism on the cheap, but fair enough over Easter.

But you have me intrigued. What's the Port Macquarie model?

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1 hour ago, Rambler said:

You asked for it

https://www.nbnnews.com.au/2021/04/04/sailors-battle-wind-for-sailing-national-championships/

Actually drone footage of the first day with me simply having provided them with a brief summary of the day. Journalism on the cheap, but fair enough over Easter.

But you have me intrigued. What's the Port Macquarie model?

I should have added that, unfortunately, Clare narrowly lost to Jim Scott of Melbourne in the last race. [Unfortunately just because it was so nice to see Clare do so well after a 20 year break in her sailing career and coming into skippering her own boat when her previous forte as part of the British National Junior team was as a crew in a 420]

The fact that there were 5 different heat winners in a 12 race/ 8 boat series gave some indication of how close it was, even if the drone footage makes it looked spaced out.

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On 4/1/2021 at 2:52 AM, Rambler said:

The issue in a river is that with a 3 to 4 knot tide, there's no fudging heating up when its tide against wind. You go backwards even if it feels like you're sailing well across the tide.

We sat forward, but still couldn't get enough speed to go out and play in the tide until the wind was above 12 knots.

What we ended up having to do was run the shallows dead square (or nearly so, but then having to short gybe constantly), board up (to access the shallowest water) in among the NS14's. Sometimes even trying to goose wing the kite (rarely successfully), skipper standing at mast, crew on foredeck. Very wobbly, but just not fun and in a couple of light seasons as they go.

The Fifteens, like all of the above classes, are much more powerful and can play in the tide at 5 knots of wind. You might be soaking, but doing better than running square and still making reasonable progress.

 

on the Delaware we raced Stars and 505s. They were both fast enough to deal with 3 knot currents. The Mariners, not so much. Often they would be stuck while we were doing the whole loop.

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13 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

 

on the Delaware we raced Stars and 505s. They were both fast enough to deal with 3 knot currents. The Mariners, not so much. Often they would be stuck while we were doing the whole loop.

And I think that's the real lesson of sailing in tidal waterways. Faster boats are better and can deal with it when slower ones can't.

In the last 20 years our club has gone from a fleet of non trapeze, two sailed monos and small single sailed cats and small trailer yachts when I first moved into the area to skiffs, sports boats and bigger trailer yachts and larger trapeze powered cats.

Which is sort of closer to where it started back in the 1930's with boats like the VS's and VJ's.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sorry guys about teh tardy reply, I really need to retire.

The Port MacQuarie model was get a local bussiness identity and a local accomodation venue to support a individual boat.

So with the 18teen's we "as in AAMI" where supported by Radio Port MacQuarie (2MC I think) and Sails Resort.

So when we did the Port MacQuaire Super Skiff Series, we stayed at Sails and 2MC where our "sponsors" so to speak.   So they all got to go to the Black Tie dinner with us retrabads, we took them sailing and they sutiable feed us and had a generally great time.    Doing Callcutta's, socialising (my 2 crew where very well looked after, I took the wife and kids to be safe) but a huge party atmosphere on the "village green".

Gets the town involved, I think we started drawing 40-50,000 people for the weekend event.

Very very clever.

It was fabulous!     1989-1992 probably.   Massive.

                           jB

 

 

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33 minutes ago, JulianB said:

Sorry guys about teh tardy reply, I really need to retire.

The Port MacQuarie model was get a local bussiness identity and a local accomodation venue to support a individual boat.

So with the 18teen's we "as in AAMI" where supported by Radio Port MacQuarie (2MC I think) and Sails Resort.

So when we did the Port MacQuaire Super Skiff Series, we stayed at Sails and 2MC where our "sponsors" so to speak.   So they all got to go to the Black Tie dinner with us retrabads, we took them sailing and they sutiable feed us and had a generally great time.    Doing Callcutta's, socialising (my 2 crew where very well looked after, I took the wife and kids to be safe) but a huge party atmosphere on the "village green".

Gets the town involved, I think we started drawing 40-50,000 people for the weekend event.

Very very clever.

It was fabulous!     1989-1992 probably.   Massive.

                           jB

 

 

Thanks Julian

A nice arrangement. I'm jealous.

Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I'm not sure I could do as good a sell for a Fifteen event as for one for the 18's:rolleyes:

Mind you, I have had a surprising number of people come up and indicate they did spectate and enjoyed it. And some of our existing sailors were very taken by the closeness of the competition and are tyre kicking a 15.

I think some time ago you were looking at TV worthy Olympic Formats and I raised with you the sort of racing we get on a narrow river where boats are forced into constant tacking and gybing duals with multiple crossings and changes of lead.

Well since we had the river to ourselves and the wind facilitated windward return courses, it certainly proved the point.

There's now some drone footage of the second day added to our Facebook page [ 

but also generally https://www.facebook.com/Australian15footers

5 different heat winners over 12 races.

 

 

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Nice videos, 

Should go check out the Fremantle 18teen Grand Prix if you want to see short legs and interaction.

The other one was Gottenberg (Sweden) in the 49ers,  

But you where lucky the wind was along the river and not across it.

Fabulous job your doing up there, a real credit to the effort and the drive that you have.

I'm in Port Stephens right now, sailing a FarEast 28R, and plenty of sandbanks.

enjoy,   jB

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6 hours ago, JulianB said:

 

But you where lucky the wind was along the river and not across it.

 

Fortunately we have two lengths of the river run NE to ENE and one run SE.

So well covered for the most common winds. But yes, lucky in that regard.

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/21/2021 at 7:29 PM, Rambler said:

Thanks Julian

A nice arrangement. I'm jealous.

Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I'm not sure I could do as good a sell for a Fifteen event as for one for the 18's:rolleyes:

Mind you, I have had a surprising number of people come up and indicate they did spectate and enjoyed it. And some of our existing sailors were very taken by the closeness of the competition and are tyre kicking a 15.

I think some time ago you were looking at TV worthy Olympic Formats and I raised with you the sort of racing we get on a narrow river where boats are forced into constant tacking and gybing duals with multiple crossings and changes of lead.

Well since we had the river to ourselves and the wind facilitated windward return courses, it certainly proved the point.

There's now some drone footage of the second day added to our Facebook page [ 

but also generally https://www.facebook.com/Australian15footers

5 different heat winners over 12 races.

 

 

Ramber, I am very likely to be transiting Grafton on June 23rd, with a Thompson 8 on the back on my way to Brisbane to do the Sports Boat Nats.

If I left SYD at 6sih (am) even towing I should be in Grafton for that long awaited lunch????

You up for that????         jB

ps, my co-driver will be GT who used to be Haminex, and Corinthian Doors, so it will be a good lunch!!!!!!

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3 hours ago, JulianB said:

Ramber, I am very likely to be transiting Grafton on June 23rd, with a Thompson 8 on the back on my way to Brisbane to do the Sports Boat Nats.

If I left SYD at 6sih (am) even towing I should be in Grafton for that long awaited lunch????

You up for that????         jB

ps, my co-driver will be GT who used to be Haminex, and Corinthian Doors, so it will be a good lunch!!!!!!

Yes, but do you mean Ballina rather than Grafton?

You'll find the highway much improved with the Freeway completed all the way. It peels away from the old road well South of Grafton.

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2 hours ago, JulianB said:

May be a late lunch, in Ballina.

Yep

If you don't want to bring the tow into Ballina, I can pick you up at the new Highway service center and truck stop should you wish.

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13 hours ago, JulianB said:

May be a late lunch, in Ballina.

That's going to be a pretty rough day for you.

I did a bit of calculation. I normally allow about 8 hours of driving time (sans stops) between Sydney and Ballina.

Lunch in Ballina will be about 1 hour 20 minutes later than that in Grafton. So if you do have stops, a fairly late lunch.

Its nice for me because it saves me a 1 1/2 hour drive South, only to follow you back North after lunch, but?

I'd love to catch up, and are willing to be flexible. 

Obviously happy with a Ballina lunch, but could make it afternoon tea Ballina, or a lunch in Mclean as a compromise (which is also less of a detour off the new freeway than Grafton). Whatever best suits you.

If it was Ballina, I might try and bring along Clare. One of my impressive 'graduates' (for want of a better word) who crewed as sheethand on the 18ft skiff that won the Queensland state titles earlier this year and so impressed the fleet up there that they have sent one of their 18's down to Ballina for her to form a crew for, train up on it and sail it in the next JJ's [you can see more of the story on the training group Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/Mr-Bond-The-Ballina-Skiff-Sail-Training-Group-110226546310465 ]. I'm sure she'd like to have a yarn with such esteemed former skiffies as you and GT (I'm a bit second tier by comparison).

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On 5/23/2021 at 1:59 PM, JulianB said:

ps, my co-driver will be GT who used to be Haminex, and Corinthian Doors, so it will be a good lunch!!!!!!

Julian you and GT can reminisce about the epic 18's tour to France and Switzerland we did

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