Jump to content

Epifanes Two-Part Poly Topside Paint


Recommended Posts

Looking at repainting a hull. The previous paint job is in terrible shape.

I was recommended Interlux Perfection by a family member who painted their boat a couple years ago, but it's backordered everywhere till mid-May. 

Does anyone have experience with the Epifanes two-part Poly? I would be rolling and tipping, not spraying. Color will be white over an old white. 

My research says both of these products are easier to work with for a non-professional than Awlgrip, especially when rolling it on. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You may want to give Alexseal a look.  The product rolls and tips well - and Alexseal has come out with a new additive that is suppose to making tipping unnecessary, just roll.  While I do not have experience with touch-ups with Alexseal, Alexseal claims it can be polished and touched-up.

Some great videos on boatworkstoday on youtube.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I was super impressed with the Epifanes 2-part poly. I used the technique in Russell Brown's Rolling Perfection (roll only, no tip) and it turned out way better than it should have in far from perfect conditions.

The transom was painted in direct early morning sun with about 5kt wind blowing yet still flowed out fairly well (this angle really highlights the roller stipple - looks better than this from most angles). The transom gate, painted in my shed, looks like it was sprayed.

IMG_20200719_111206.jpg

IMG_20200719_164041.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Team Subterfuge said:

You may want to give Alexseal a look.  The product rolls and tips well - and Alexseal has come out with a new additive that is suppose to making tipping unnecessary, just roll.  While I do not have experience with touch-ups with Alexseal, Alexseal claims it can be polished and touched-up.

Some great videos on boatworkstoday on youtube.

 

If you go for the Alexseal, do give us some feedback please.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We had our boat sprayed with alex seal, so can't speak to the roll  & tip-ability of it, but so far (1 year out) happy with the job - the yard who did it told us that it was a lot easier to repair.  I know for a fact that awl grip is hard to repair - we had awl grip before, and while the good repair guys with a sprayer could make a patch disappear, about a year later it would show up again...  The patches where I rolled & tipped awl grip repairs were visible immediately.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Hike, Bitches! just posted these pics of Axel Seal on his boat....says he:

"Hull #511. It started out like this. It had some blue but no grey, so until I painted it, did not meet thread criteria! :ph34r:

The nice thing about Alexseal is you can buff it and repair it. That was a roll & tip job in a dusty boat yard that I did in 2019"

start.jpg

slings_8.jpg

buffed2020_11.jpg

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Both of those finishes look really good. 

I did look into Alexseal a bit, but again found it hard to find vendors. When I did find a vendor the normal white colors were again out of stock. Any suggestions on where to buy it?

Defender has all of the Epifanes products in stock.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What you are looking at is the difference between acrylic and polyester LPU’s;

Quote

There are, however, significant differences between these two linear polyurethane (LPU) paints. Both Imron and Awlgrip happen to be the best-known examples of the two main classes of LPU coatings but they are not he only ones. There are two basic types of LPU's acrylic polyurethanes (Imron, Awlcraft 2000, Interspray 800, PPG Concept, Sikkens Yachtcryl) and the polyester polyurethanes (Awlgrip, Interspray 900, Sterling, etc.) Both acrylic and polyester LPU coatings produce a beautiful wet-look shine that, with proper care, will last a full five or six years before any noticeable difference appears. The main difference is the polyester LPU yields a harder, more weather- and UV-resistant finish so your boat stays glossy longer, with less work, with Awlgrip than with Imron. This is the claim any way! 

Hatteras Yachts used Imron for years and years with very good results, this is why I say, "this is the claim".. If I'm not mistaken they have now switched to using Alwcraft 2000 which is very similar to Imron just made by Akzo and not Dupont..

The problem with the polyester LPU's, like Awlgrip and Sterling, is that when they cure a thin hard surface is formed like a built in clear coat. This becomes a problem when and if you try to buff Awlgrip or a polyester LPU. Most people don't realize it but are actually only buffing this very thin surface layer made up of mostly the clear solids. Picture oil and water. As you shake the bottle they almost form together but if you let it sit the oil rises to the surface. This, in a sense, is what Alwgrip cures like with the clear solids rising to the surface to protect the pigment layer. It's really more complicated than that but it's about as easy as I can explain it. In most instances, when buffing Awlgrip, you will burn through this thin outer layer quite quickly using compounds & polishes. Once you've done that you'll be a slave to the Awlgrip until it's worn away or re-painted. 

We've all seen Awlgrip that's been chaffed by a fender or a winter cover. This chafing has basically worn through the "clear solids" and has exposed the base layer of the paint leaving it unprotected from the sun. 

Many smaller boat shops recommend and use the acrylic LPU's because they are a lot easier to work with. An acrylic LPU, like Imron or Alwcraft 2000, dries faster, and because it’s a solid paint, it’s easier to perform the buffing required to force a smooth shine onto a mediocre spray job full of dust and dull areas. We did an after the fact buff job on Tim's Imron (the red boat above) and I can tell you this paint is plenty hard! Finesse It II and Chroma 1500 barely touched it until after we had buffed it with Superduty Rubbing Compound and a foam "polishing grade pad". 

Awlgrip is quite unforgiving and it’s a lot harder to get good results in marginal painting conditions with but it purportedly lasts longer. Both types, acrylic and polyester LPU's, can be repaired by spraying a patch or brush touch-up and then wet sanding and buffing to blend it with the surrounding finish. Special blending additives help as well as experience. 

One of the biggest problems in repair work is color matching and that's where Awlgrip shines. Alwgrip reportedly, I say reportedly because of the red boat above, has better fade resistance to the acrylic LPU's and an Awlgrip hull color stays stable and fade-free longer than an acrylic. How much longer I don't know but these are the claims.. The problem then becomes how good is your repair guy at feathering an Awlgrip job vs. the much easier feathering of a acrylic LPU like Imron. I'll take an acrylic LPU over a polyester LPU for just the ease of repair any day.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Aquila11 said:

Both of those finishes look really good. 

I did look into Alexseal a bit, but again found it hard to find vendors. When I did find a vendor the normal white colors were again out of stock. Any suggestions on where to buy it?

Defender has all of the Epifanes products in stock.

I had a little bit of trouble sourcing it as well..a "commercial" address helps a lot (I had it shipped to my office, with a commercial loading dock with permission, and no problems)...since it is generally considered hazardous. I bought at two different times.

My most recent purchase was from Hamilton Marine and they had all the stuff I needed. I also got some of the non-skid additive, not used yet, at BOATiD.com

I don't know about the other paints either, but for rolling/tipping...thin thin and thin, especially the topcoats, not so much the primers..you want build there to allow sanding with 600 and get a smooth base. I don't have my notes, but I was thinning like 40% and applying several topcoats..it is easy to run that thin too, but it flows right out, so be patient and resist the urge to apply too much paint at once. I used to review the Data Sheets as bedtime reading. 

I have also read Russell's book, and for areas where the flaws are not so noticeable, I am using his techniques in the cockpit and on deck with decent results.

I think any two-part will probably turn out fine, but practice on small areas first, like a hatch or something before attacking a big area. Prep, and a smooth base coat is KING....always. By the time you get to the topcoat, you are just trying to keep it from running so do NOT apply too thick, apply thin, and many coats. By the time I got to the boot & cove stripes, I was sanding them by hand in between coats with 600 grit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I decided to go with the Epifanes. I'll post my experience and results. 

Can't turn out much worse than what's on there now!

Capture.PNG

Link to post
Share on other sites

I did a job using the 2 part Epifanes , seemed like really good stuff. It was easy to apply and get a good finish, at least compared to Perfection. I find Perfection to be a little too thin and somewhat finicky. I too would be very interested in a real world review of Alexseal. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a big fan of the 2 part epifanes. it was designed to be rolled (no need to tip) I used it on my hinckley 38 and it came out looking great. yes nothing shines like awlgrip but the fact of the matter is that despite what the awlgrip marketing says it's really tricky to get a roll and tip awlgrip paintjob to come out looking right.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sanded, filled, sanded, filled, and sanded today. The boat looked 100x better just taking the old paint off. 

The first coat of primer didn't cover or go as far as I thought it would. I've got a second "quart" to apply after a light sanding. I say "quart" because each container is really only 750ml.

Instructions said to thin the primer by 5%, this was way too little. Probably ended up somewhere closer to 10-12%

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

Long overdue update.

I ended up with 2 coats of primer on the entire hull and a 3rd using what I had leftover on just the old boot strip to help cover it. Luckily I was able to find a location to do the topcoats indoors, painting outside wasn't working to well. 

I had originally intended to only apply two coats of the Epifanes, but last minute I sourced a little more paint incase I needed a third coat, and I'm very glad I did. The boot strip was still faintly visible even after the primer and two top coats. I would have thought the paint would cover better. 

In the end I did 3 coats with 24 hours between each coat. Rolling was easy and it didn't really need any tipping. Thinned ~5% for all coats. Biggest lessons learned were to swap rollers often and not try to spread the paint too thin. It was VERY easy to stretch the paint further than it was meant to. On the first coat I thought I was able to almost double the expected coverage without even really trying. 

I'm happy with the finished product, It looks 1000 times better than it did before. As the person who did all the work I know exactly where all the mistakes are though!!

image.thumb.png.ca9bb676988444263ae0adfc0f19006b.png

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/30/2021 at 4:24 PM, Aquila11 said:

Looking at repainting a hull. The previous paint job is in terrible shape.

I was recommended Interlux Perfection by a family member who painted their boat a couple years ago, but it's backordered everywhere till mid-May. 

Does anyone have experience with the Epifanes two-part Poly? I would be rolling and tipping, not spraying. Color will be white over an old white. 

My research says both of these products are easier to work with for a non-professional than Awlgrip, especially when rolling it on. 

It’s Good paint 

Ive used it several times 

I prefer awlgrip 

awlgrip brushing reducer and catalyst are superior 

the issue with awlgrip is cost

Choose epifanes or international if cost is important  

both are good paints 

be aware of temperature and don’t paint in the sunlight if you want a pro finish 

a pro finish requires multiple thin coats 

brush up and down to compliment gravity and allow the paint to flow out 

a proper tipping brush is worthwhile  

google tipping or “laying off” brush 

Anza brand  is a typical supplier to pro shops

2F57EBBA-37B9-48A8-B8C8-8FF2F7943E0A.png

0B611EC8-29AB-4092-B1EF-3A8D9FE7A38C.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/30/2021 at 11:32 PM, Russell Brown said:

If you go for the Alexseal, do give us some feedback please.

We just did a set of stripes on a Tanzer 10.5 with it (and the rolling additive).  Covers really well and I was pretty pleased with the finish. The colours we used covered super well so a little paint went a long way. My guy painting was in the yard in the direct sun so we got some light stippling — but very acceptable finish for stripes. 3 coats in an afternoon following the mfg directions. The stuff does manage to get under tape lines really well, so I will be trying a different masking tape next time.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Will1073 said:

 The stuff does manage to get under tape lines really well, so I will be trying a different masking tape next time.

Pay for the best 3M tape.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/11/2021 at 11:36 AM, TryGuy said:

Try using 3M fine line tape. Works great for that application

actually, No, it does not.

I had several issues with 3M fine line tape (both blue and automotive green tape) with Alexseal.

No matter how hard you push it on (I even used all my weight with a plastic scraper to no avail) but the dark colors are a bit thinner and can bleed under it.

White paint is thicker and does not bleed.

Double layers of tape did not help.

In one case it took me 6 hours to sand the bleed marks away with bits of folded 400 grit sandpaper on the double bootstripe.  Not a good time especially after spending buku bucks on the "best" tape and having it fail...

Would have given a nuclear wedgie to any 3M tape engineer who happened upon in the boatyard that day.

 

Good news is if you roll the white first, after you roll the dark color, let it harden to where you can remove the masking tape and then wipe with a rag with a bit of acetone. It will remove the dark bleed through paint but not dull the white below it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To prevent bleed-thru a light pass of the first color can be used to seal the tape edge. Yes, some extra work but less work than the after-the-fact alternatives.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting. Like I posted earlier I've never used Alexseal and I'm looking fwd to some responses from people that have. Never had an issue with fine line (green) and other paints - rolled and tipped. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Foreverslow said:

actually, No, it does not.

I had several issues with 3M fine line tape (both blue and automotive green tape) with Alexseal.

No matter how hard you push it on (I even used all my weight with a plastic scraper to no avail) but the dark colors are a bit thinner and can bleed under it.

White paint is thicker and does not bleed.

Double layers of tape did not help.

In one case it took me 6 hours to sand the bleed marks away with bits of folded 400 grit sandpaper on the double bootstripe.  Not a good time especially after spending buku bucks on the "best" tape and having it fail...

Would have given a nuclear wedgie to any 3M tape engineer who happened upon in the boatyard that day.

 

Good news is if you roll the white first, after you roll the dark color, let it harden to where you can remove the masking tape and then wipe with a rag with a bit of acetone. It will remove the dark bleed through paint but not dull the white below it.

I don't like 3m tape either, i prefer frog tape...    tape comparison had frog tape the best at preventing bleed...  3m wasn't even in the top three..

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

Epifanes 2 part paint is the best one for roller. The only things you need to keep in mind - outside temperature must be below 25 C, I otherwise paint on surface dries too fast and start destroy your foam roller when you go over a bit. Also if you paint large area use less hardener and up to 5% thinner for 2 parts paint.  I also recommend to paint surface first with primer and nicely sand it after if you need perfect job. Make sure you wash surface after sending like a car - with soap and sponge. When its dries- use acetone to clean thoughtly before paint and ideally if you have compressor blow with air. 

While painting large surface you need helper to prepare paint when you be running low on mixed paint. Unfortunately once you start rolling you MUST continuously roll it with no stop.

One more tip - avoid sunny days, better work when is cloudy and always control paint strokes by looking from the side. Paint is very glossy and you may find spot where paint didnt go perfect. Should you find it 1-2 feet away just leave it as is - you can repaint this spot later on when all paint will dry enough for recoating. Any attempts to fix it when paint wet will ruin your work entirely - when you will go over painted area when paint still yet wet but a bit sticky it will pickup little particles from your foam roller. 

Important - make sure you use correct thinner. Otherwise your paint will turn into cottage cheese :)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...