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Re-engine Laser 28 with ????? Suggestions


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Thinking of putting a new engine and sail drive, or no sail drive on a Laser 28. Has anybody done this?  What did you use? What’s the cost?  

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We need to know your present anchor choice before answering wide open questions. Also a pic of titties is customary as a token to the gods. You might be a lot happier on Cruisers Forum. They're nicer.

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There was one at our club that was repowered with some sort of Volvo. The extra weight and larger sail drive made it dog shit slow compared to the other 4 28’s. 

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Farymann makes a 7 horse one lung marine diesel with a zf6 transmission.  I think that can mate up with the zf saildrive but won't vouch that it can.  Its the lightest diesel on the market at about 140 pounds.  The other option is probably a yanmar gm10 or whatever the current model is.

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I always thought an outboard would be better for the size of the boat.  Best would be to redo the transom so it is open, like the Moore 24 fleet does, then you could get to an outboard in a practical way. 

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On 4/7/2021 at 2:02 PM, Blue Crab said:

We need to know your present anchor choice before answering wide open questions. Also a pic of titties is customary as a token to the gods. You might be a lot happier on Cruisers Forum. They're nicer.

That's an outrage. We are NOT nicer!

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I'm going to chime in with my worthless advice only because I actually did re-power a Laser 28.  Twice.

The previous owner bought it with an outboard hanging off the back.  It was a PIA and was damaging the transom.  We got rid of that and installed a S280 which is basically a Honda four stroke power head and bottom unit, with a custom fabbed aluminium intermediate housing that sealed the through hull portion and connects the power head to the lower unit.  This was a lightweight, quiet engine and powered the boat very well.  It had a fatal flaw though as I discovered after I took over ownership. The lube oil gallery was right next to the cooling water gallery in the intermediate housing. The wall between the two eventually corroded and allowed seawater into the oil with the expected catastrophic result.

So, I pulled that unit out and cut out the engine bed.  Purchased one of the last Yanmar GM10 Saildrive combos before they got phased out and installed that along with the required molded FRP engine bed.  It was the heaviest combo by a substantial amount but as far as I could tell did not affect boat speed at all.  No O/D in our area so side by side comparisons could not be made.  But we were very competitive in the phrf 111 to 140 rating band.    

I still clearly remember the first motor back to the slip from the boatyard.  Docked the boat and stood in the cockpit with the engine thumping away at idle, beneath my feet.  I realized I had the biggest shit eating grin on my face!

So the way I see it you have three options.

1. If you still have the Bukh, go for a re-build if you can.

B. Investigate that Faryman option.  It kind of looks like a vertical mounted engine which may fit onto the Bukh saildrive. 

4. Contact Schooner Marine in the midwest.  They re-build a bunch of different Yanmar combos.  I've used them twice to re-power a Ross 40 and recently a Riptide 35.

Finally, the Beta engine will not fit as it is too tall.

Good luck.

Btw, many heave heard me say this before.  But, IMO the Laser 28 is the best racer cruiser under 30 feet.  Period.

Seriously regret selling mine.

Gratuitous boat porn pic attached.

HH.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

I'm going to chime in with my worthless advice only because I actually did re-power a Laser 28.  Twice.

The previous owener bought it with an outboard hanging off the back.  It was a PIA and was damaging the transom.  We got rid of that and installed a S280 which is basically a Honda four stroke power head and bottom unit, with a custom fabbed aluminium intermediate housing that sealed the through hull portion and connect the power head to the lower unit.  This was a lightweight, quiet engine and powered the boat very well.  It had a fatal flaw though as I discovered after I took over ownership. The lube oil gallery was right next to the cooling water gallery in the intermediate housing. The wall between the two eventually corroded and allowed seawater into the oil with the expected catastrophic result.

So, I pulled that unit out and cut out the engine bed.  Purchased one of the last yanmar GM10 saildrive combos before they got phased out and installed that along with the required molded FRP engine bed.  It was the heaviest combo by a substantial amount but as far as I could tell did not affect boat speed at all.  No O/D in our area so side by side comparisons could not be made.  But we were very competitive in the phrf 111 to 140 rating band.    

I still clearly remember the first motor back to the slip from the boatyard.  Docked the boat and stood in the cockpit with the engine thumping away at idle, beneath my feet.  I realized I had the biggest shit eating grin on my face!

So the way I see it you have three options. 1. If you still have the Bukh, go for a re-build if you can.

B. Investigate that Faryman option.  It kind of looks like a vertical mounted engine which may fit onto the Bukh saildrive. 

4. Contact Schooner Marine in the midwest.  They re-build a bunch of different Yanmar combos.  I've used them twice to re-power a Ross 40 and recently a Riptide 35.

Finally, the Beta engine will not fit as it is too tall.

Good luck.

Btw, many heave heard me say this before.  But, IMO the Laser 28 is the best racer cruiser under 30 feet.  Period.

Seriously regret selling mine.

Gratuitous boat porn pic attached.

HH.jpg

Looks like Yanmar still making the 1GM SD 25 combo...but maybe my google fu is FU :rolleyes:

https://www.yanmar.com/marine/product/engines/1gm10/

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electric. It's a daysailor, and a good-sailing one at that. give yourself enough battery to do what you need it to with a little reserve.

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Folks around here (west end of Lake Erie) have repowered Abbott 33's with Johnson 8 or 10 HP two cycle outboard powerheads fitted to their original sail drive legs.  Don't know all the details but essentially a half inch thick piece of aluminum adapted to the powerhead worked great. Dirt cheap and very reliable, 

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7 hours ago, Raz'r said:

electric. It's a daysailor, and a good-sailing one at that. give yourself enough battery to do what you need it to with a little reserve.

Just saw on Amazon a 200AH LiFePO4 battery for $1000.  56 pounds.

damn

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4 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Just saw on Amazon a 200AH LiFePO4 battery for $1000.  56 pounds.

damn

Motor? Drive? Range? I want at least 12 hours at 6 knots. 

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12 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Just saw on Amazon a 200AH LiFePO4 battery for $1000.  56 pounds.

damn

Probably need four for a 48v motor though. But still.

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9 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

Motor? Drive? Range? I want at least 12 hours at 6 knots. 

200 AH is 2.4 KWH. I am going to make a semi-accurate guess that a Laser 28 in calm water needs about 5 KW to go 6 knots. That would mean 24 batteries, or about 1200 pounds of batteries. If I am off by a lot, the boat is very slippery, you are still looking at say 12 batteries for 600 pounds. This is assuming no reserve at all, using the batteries from full charge to dead.

 

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15 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

200 AH is 2.4 KWH. I am going to make a semi-accurate guess that a Laser 28 in calm water needs about 5 KW to go 6 knots. That would mean 24 batteries, or about 1200 pounds of batteries. If I am off by a lot, the boat is very slippery, you are still looking at say 12 batteries for 600 pounds. This is assuming no reserve at all, using the batteries from full charge to dead.

 

With electric and a reasonably sized battery bank you can have endurance or speed but not both. I'm guessing that with a 200 ah bank (~200 lb of batteries) and 80% discharge you'd get about 2 hours at 5 kt, 4 hours at 4 kt and 8 hours at 3 kt. 

With all due respect to Hitchhiker's requirement, how many Laser 28 or similar boats regularly need more range than that? And how many would trade all of their engine repairs & maintenance for that range limitation?

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17 minutes ago, TJSoCal said:

With electric and a reasonably sized battery bank you can have endurance or speed but not both. I'm guessing that with a 200 ah bank (~200 lb of batteries) and 80% discharge you'd get about 2 hours at 5 kt, 4 hours at 4 kt and 8 hours at 3 kt. 

With all due respect to Hitchhiker's requirement, how many Laser 28 or similar boats regularly need more range than that? And how many would trade all of their engine repairs & maintenance for that range limitation?

All 5 of the Lasers that were at our club routinely needed more range than that. 

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1 hour ago, TJSoCal said:

With electric and a reasonably sized battery bank you can have endurance or speed but not both. I'm guessing that with a 200 ah bank (~200 lb of batteries) and 80% discharge you'd get about 2 hours at 5 kt, 4 hours at 4 kt and 8 hours at 3 kt. 

With all due respect to Hitchhiker's requirement, how many Laser 28 or similar boats regularly need more range than that? And how many would trade all of their engine repairs & maintenance for that range limitation?

My favourite short distance race starts 63 nm from my homeport. It's an upwind delivery to the start. 

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23 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:
1 hour ago, TJSoCal said:

With electric and a reasonably sized battery bank you can have endurance or speed but not both. I'm guessing that with a 200 ah bank (~200 lb of batteries) and 80% discharge you'd get about 2 hours at 5 kt, 4 hours at 4 kt and 8 hours at 3 kt. 

With all due respect to Hitchhiker's requirement, how many Laser 28 or similar boats regularly need more range than that? And how many would trade all of their engine repairs & maintenance for that range limitation?

My favourite short distance race starts 63 nm from my homeport. It's an upwind delivery to the start. 

In that case, you certainly don't want an outboard!

I think with an electric drive, you lose some advantages and you gain some. One problem is that the prop of an electric will be different than for a diesel. More torque, it would benefit from a big slow-turning prop. Another is that your reserve range is uncertain until you start losing voltage, in which case the answer is "Very little... hope you're almost there." Another is that the weight does not decrease as you run out the range. If you're clever (assuming there's a fuel dock closer than home), you can arrive at your race with almost-dry tanks. And it takes an electric longer to recharge than filling a diesel tank. With a diesel, bringing on extra fuel for longer runs is relatively easy.

One gain is that the battery makes great ballast and you can put it anywhere. The engine itself is smaller and lighter. And maintenance + clean-up will be next to nothing.

I'm not enamored of new technology for it's own sake, but I like clean. For my own use, I would not need that much range ...  electric would be tempting.

FB- Doug

 

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56 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

My favourite short distance race starts 63 nm from my homeport. It's an upwind delivery to the start. 

Yikes! No outboard for you!

Find a small diesel that will fit. I am partial to Beta, but pretty much any 1 or 2 cylinder diesel will push you better than any outboard.

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31 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

In that case, you certainly don't want an outboard!

I think with an electric drive, you lose some advantages and you gain some. One problem is that the prop of an electric will be different than for a diesel. More torque, it would benefit from a big slow-turning prop. Another is that your reserve range is uncertain until you start losing voltage, in which case the answer is "Very little... hope you're almost there." Another is that the weight does not decrease as you run out the range. If you're clever (assuming there's a fuel dock closer than home), you can arrive at your race with almost-dry tanks. And it takes an electric longer to recharge than filling a diesel tank. With a diesel, bringing on extra fuel for longer runs is relatively easy.

One gain is that the battery makes great ballast and you can put it anywhere. The engine itself is smaller and lighter. And maintenance + clean-up will be next to nothing.

I'm not enamored of new technology for it's own sake, but I like clean. For my own use, I would not need that much range ...  electric would be tempting.

FB- Doug

 

Electric will not work for him, a headwind would mean basically a boat full of batteries or running out. I once looked at the range tables for a diesel-electric submarine and it was eye opening. Pushing the speed up beyond just creeping along really sucked the batteries dry in a hurry. Also note quite some time on shore power would be needed to "refuel".

Here is something related to that, not sure if it is from the same sub:

BatteryOperation.png?ssl=1

I am assuming the "peace" graph is easier on the batteries and the "war" graph assumes an unlimited budget for more of them. BTW, the ammeter on the Torsk was something like plus-minus 3,000 amps!

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