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Predicting Cruising Sailboat Prices For Next 2 Years


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20 hours ago, climenuts said:

Seems a bit stupid to me not to get a loan for 5% for a boat when investments are reliably generating well over 5% in interest?

 

There have been a lot of events in my lifetime where this sort of thinking proved horribly wrong. If your "reliable" investments are in the stock market, what do you do if it crashes? This market scares the hell out of me.

 

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Just now, Cruisin Loser said:

There have been a lot of events in my lifetime where this sort of thinking proved horribly wrong. If your "reliable" investments are in the stock market, what do you do if it crashes? This market scares the hell out of me.

 

I don't put money I can't afford to lose in the stock market just like I don't put money I can't afford to lose into the boat.

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Just now, climenuts said:

I don't put money I can't afford to lose in the stock market just like I don't put money I can't afford to lose into the boat.

Smart man.

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10 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Friend going this weekend to look at a boat for sale from late 1960s (restored, etc). Owners said 25 people have expressed interest.  They’ve narrowed it down to 8 people that they will allow to come have a closer look in person.

WTF?!  New world.  Will there be a bidding war?

 

Friends of mine who sold their work of art wooden boat priced it sky high to keep away the tyre kickers and the people who weren't wealthy. We thought they'd never get anything close to their asking price even though the boat was in perfect condition and a beautiful, one-off custom build using all Tasmanian timbers.

They got damn close to their asking price within 6 weeks of advertising it.

Temporary new world?

FKT

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12 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Friend going this weekend to look at a boat for sale from late 1960s (restored, etc). Owners said 25 people have expressed interest.  They’ve narrowed it down to 8 people that they will allow to come have a closer look in person.

WTF?!  New world.  Will there be a bidding war?

Do they have to pay a deposit to be permitted to look at it?

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On 4/3/2021 at 6:49 PM, Israel Hands said:

And I’m sitting in MA a little deflated after looking at another boat. One thing I’ve learned - until you see the boat firsthand, you know nothing. Photos and descriptions are often misleading.

I'd suggest not traveling more than 1 hour to look at a boat unless the broker or owner gives you a facetime/zoom/whatever tour of it first. Saves a lot of disappointment!

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1 hour ago, CapDave said:

I'd suggest not traveling more than 1 hour to look at a boat unless the broker or owner gives you a facetime/zoom/whatever tour of it first. Saves a lot of disappointment!

Are you suggesting that there's a better way of spending your time?

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21 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Are you suggesting that there's a better way of spending your time?

Flying to San Diego to look at a boat that turned out to be a horrific piece of shit may sound like fun, but in the real world it isn't. Getting locked in the marina by the agent was the icing on the cake.

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So you walk the docks perusing until they unlock.

In Dago weather to boot.

Sounds good to me.

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15 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

So you walk the docks perusing until they unlock.

In Dago weather to boot.

Sounds good to me.

Unfortunately, it was locked for the night, and the broker had turned off his phone. And there was no way we were going to spend the night in a boat with a cracked holding tank...

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On 4/9/2021 at 6:06 PM, SloopJonB said:

Do they have to pay a deposit to be permitted to look at it?

I never did get an answer from my friend about whether owners required a deposit to be permitted to be able to look at the boat.  I don’t think so.

He made an offer and will know tonight.  He’s on tenterhooks.

What I’m curious about is whether his offer (asking price) will be accepted.  If it isn’t, then that will suggest someone else offered higher, which will be interesting data for the old used boat market nowadays - people bidding up prices on 50+ year old boats...stay tuned.

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2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Unfortunately, it was locked for the night, and the broker had turned off his phone. And there was no way we were going to spend the night in a boat with a cracked holding tank...

I love looking at boats.  Anyone who wants a local set of eyes (and nose) let me know & I'd be happy to do a zoom showing down here & save you the potentially wasted trip.  

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39 minutes ago, socalrider said:

I love looking at boats.  Anyone who wants a local set of eyes (and nose) let me know & I'd be happy to do a zoom showing down here & save you the potentially wasted trip.  

Very kind offer, I wish you had been around in 2005. What really pissed me off is that the broker guaranteed there was no problem with the holding tank. As soon as we slid back the hatch we knew that was a lie.

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6 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Very kind offer, I wish you had been around in 2005. What really pissed me off is that the broker guaranteed there was no problem with the holding tank. As soon as we slid back the hatch we knew that was a lie.

Doesn't sound like it was holding.

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On 4/9/2021 at 12:25 PM, Cruisin Loser said:

There have been a lot of events in my lifetime where this sort of thinking proved horribly wrong. If your "reliable" investments are in the stock market, what do you do if it crashes? This market scares the hell out of me.

 

We live substantially below or means and don't work about the market. But I'm general, worrying about the market is a misplaced worry.

https://www.kitces.com/blog/url-upside-potential-sequence-of-return-risk-in-retirement-median-final-wealth/

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1 hour ago, Bryanjb said:
On 4/9/2021 at 12:25 PM, Cruisin Loser said:

There have been a lot of events in my lifetime where this sort of thinking proved horribly wrong. If your "reliable" investments are in the stock market, what do you do if it crashes? This market scares the hell out of me.

 

We live substantially below or means and don't work about the market. But I'm general, worrying about the market is a misplaced worry.

https://www.kitces.com/blog/url-upside-potential-sequence-of-return-risk-in-retirement-median-final-wealth/

Every time the stock market crashes, it comes back. Sometimes it takes a while, and time of course is not necessarily your friend. The linked article above makes some good points, it's true that if you retire the day before your investments decline... not even a "crash"... then your retirement will necessarily suffer diminished means.

This is the reason why replacing Social Security (a public insurance program, really) with private investment is a bad idea.

It's also true that "the stock market" includes a lot of stocks that don't come back after crashes. For example, the people who invested in the Acme Buggy Whip Co. lost everything.

I began investing in stocks (and later, "index" mutual funds) since the mid 1970s. My wife and I have been fully retired for over 6 years, and partially retired for about 15. We have considerably more money than when we started despite having bought a house and an expensive (well, in my terms) boat out of our savings/investments.

FWIW the total of our investment funds is about 7X what we put into it. The period of my active investing includes 3 crashes, with 2 "worse than 1929," and the 2008 crash occurred while we were out cruising (but checking in to work, once in a while). There is only one stock that I bought into that ended up permanently crashed (recovered less than 10% of original investment). This time frame also included two historic "bull market" run-ups.

Just for general info on the topic

- DSK

 

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22 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Flying to San Diego to look at a boat that turned out to be a horrific piece of shit may sound like fun, but in the real world it isn't. Getting locked in the marina by the agent was the icing on the cake.

Ish, I feel your pain. When we started our boat search five or six years ago, I was under the impression that agent representations of condition more or less mirrored the standards of the California real estate industry where I’ve earned my living for more than forty years. Not so! Blatant misrepresentations and factual omissions that would cost you your license in real estate were the rule rather than the exception. In frustration I finally told my broker, a very good and experienced one, that I wouldn’t look at another boat more than an hour’s drive away unless someone he knew and trusted previewed it for us first. That worked out famously. When we finally found our 20 year old boat up in SF, not only was he able to find a former associate to look at it for us, she turned out to have been the one who sold it new originally and she had sold it to the  (then) owner and knew it’s history forwards and backwards. She also steered us clear of several others that would have been complete wastes of time. In addition to SoCal’s generous offer, should you need a competent third opinion re a boat in SD or SF let me know and I‘ll pass on their contact info. BTW, I was talking to him a couple of weeks ago and he told me his inventory had shrunk from 80 yachts a year ago to 23 as of that conversation. So the sellers market is still ongoing. 

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Every time the stock market crashes, it comes back. Sometimes it takes a while, and time of course is not necessarily your friend. The linked article above makes some good points, it's true that if you retire the day before your investments decline... not even a "crash"... then your retirement will necessarily suffer diminished means.

This is the reason why replacing Social Security (a public insurance program, really) with private investment is a bad idea.

It's also true that "the stock market" includes a lot of stocks that don't come back after crashes. For example, the people who invested in the Acme Buggy Whip Co. lost everything.

I began investing in stocks (and later, "index" mutual funds) since the mid 1970s. My wife and I have been fully retired for over 6 years, and partially retired for about 15. We have considerably more money than when we started despite having bought a house and an expensive (well, in my terms) boat out of our savings/investments.

FWIW the total of our investment funds is about 7X what we put into it. The period of my active investing includes 3 crashes, with 2 "worse than 1929," and the 2008 crash occurred while we were out cruising (but checking in to work, once in a while). There is only one stock that I bought into that ended up permanently crashed (recovered less than 10% of original investment). This time frame also included two historic "bull market" run-ups.

Just for general info on the topic

- DSK

 

So, things are good.

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59 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

For me, hell yeah... the only living being in all history that I would trade places with is my dog.

FB- Doug

Me too. My virgin male dogs just pulled a train on aunties visiting in-heat bitch. All three are now fast asleep. Oh, those were the days!

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1 hour ago, Borracho said:

Me too. My virgin male dogs just pulled a train on aunties visiting in-heat bitch. All three are now fast asleep. Oh, those were the days!


Video?

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Well now,...I realize the $1 dollar boat has gone up in value.

 

I just saw an O'day Tempest, the O'Day Outlaw Junior to NAMO for sale for 3500 big ones. I told the kids that. Now could be the time to get rid of NAMO and step up.

 

Problem is, there's not much to step up to. Zilch. 

 

This is often the way with 'assets' (which boats have suddenly been flirting with becoming). 

 

They decided to hunker down and ride the new market, for now.

Today Harry and my daughter are sanding and prepping the house and decks for paint. Perfect weather day. 

1917623780_Namo41421.thumb.jpg.87776efff1ab29288973aba0bbcb6365.jpg

Goddamn kids. A classic widow-maker, boat ladder. 

My daughter always carries a tape measure. 

 1948723594_Namoladderfitting.thumb.jpeg.86d55e7bbef71edbc5086b93e3ef6fb7.jpeg

NAMO is quite high and would need a 10' 6" ladder to enable hand holds above deck for safe stepping on and off. 

I had an old 40'er stored (for this reason) and cut off a chunk. Included was a lecture on ladder safety which they pretended to hear.

I even put a name on it. 

39275154_NAMOnewladder.thumb.jpeg.eb6b88a3f98c56ae3817849802e0f62b.jpeg

Spring in the boatyard. A lot of smiles and laughter. 

 

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4 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Well now,...I realize the $1 dollar boat has gone up in value.

 

I just saw an O'day Tempest, the O'Day Outlaw Junior to NAMO for sale for 3500 big ones. I told the kids that. Now could be the time to get rid of NAMO and step up.

 

Problem is, there's not much to step up to. Zilch. 

 

This is often the way with 'assets' (which boats have suddenly been flirting with becoming). 

 

They decided to hunker down and ride the new market, for now.

Today Harry and my daughter are sanding and prepping the house and decks for paint. Perfect weather day. 

1917623780_Namo41421.thumb.jpg.87776efff1ab29288973aba0bbcb6365.jpg

Goddamn kids. A classic widow-maker, boat ladder. 

My daughter always carries a tape measure. 

 1948723594_Namoladderfitting.thumb.jpeg.86d55e7bbef71edbc5086b93e3ef6fb7.jpeg

NAMO is quite high and would need a 10' 6" ladder to enable hand holds above deck for safe stepping on and off. 

I had an old 40'er stored (for this reason) and cut off a chunk. Included was a lecture on ladder safety which they pretended to hear.

I even put a name on it. 

39275154_NAMOnewladder.thumb.jpeg.eb6b88a3f98c56ae3817849802e0f62b.jpeg

Spring in the boatyard. A lot of smiles and laughter. 

 

Friendly tip: If you take a ladder to the boatyard, always paint your name (or that of your boat) on it. And always lock it up when you leave (So says the man who has spent years wandering boatyards in search if his "lost" ladders.)

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On 4/2/2021 at 7:32 PM, Cruisin Loser said:

We dont even buy houses unless we can pay cash. 

 

That general philosophy has worked for us for the last 35 years. A divorce in the mid-1980s left me with a modest house in a great location (had to sell the old boat to buy out the ex-wife on that one), a bare hull sitting in the backyard waiting to be finished, an old car,  and $300 in the bank. 

But I had a decent job, which I leveraged every way possible to finish the new boat and go cruising.  And we did.

If I wanted something, I figured out a way to get it that didn't involve borrowing money from anyone, for anything. You want to buy something? Sell something else if you have to. Nothing to sell? Turn yourself into a valuable commodity. When there's a job to be done that nobody wants to do, put up your hand and say "I'll do it." Pretty soon, you get hired for the good jobs, too.

We may have lived more modestly as a result, but we've managed to do most of the things we wanted to do. 

Deferred gratification has its benefits, but it isn't the right solution for everyone. Your experience may vary.

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back on topic... just had a quick glance of the number of cruising boats available on YW, down again. I expected there to be more inventory (re)appearing post the northern winter, but the numbers have dropped every week since July last year. 

Mostly driven by the production market, (BenJenHanDuf), the more expensive end of the market holds pretty flat. Overall down 26% from July last year. Local market pricing around the +/- 40 foot range is nuts. Have anecdotal feedback of bidding wars in some markets, Med is the only area that seems to have some price stress... likely due to Covid and ongoing travel restrictions.

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On 4/15/2021 at 8:15 AM, toddster said:

More off topic: a 12-foot 3-point cherry-picking ladder is the most stable and handy thing around the orchard or the boatyard.  

 

sternpaint.jpg.ad386f1efcc4fafc9f1e6d6e1cc7c718.jpg

The orchard, maybe, but I bought a bay of aluminium scaffolding for boat yard work. I'm over ladders, a moment of stupidity on my part saw me spend 2 weeks in hospital while they did 3 operations to put one of my elbows more or less back together - I got back 60% of the functionality. The fractured pelvic girdle from the same fall was a doddle in comparison.

FKT

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I priced those orchard ladders.  Yikes, even on CL they are hundreds of dollars.  My hedge is getting a bit tall for my old 10 foot step ladder.   Maybe its time for this near 70 year old to hire the local yard guy.

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7 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

The orchard, maybe, but I bought a bay of aluminium scaffolding for boat yard work. I'm over ladders, a moment of stupidity on my part saw me spend 2 weeks in hospital while they did 3 operations to put one of my elbows more or less back together - I got back 60% of the functionality. The fractured pelvic girdle from the same fall was a doddle in comparison.

FKT

Let me guess... you stepped back to admire your work

Ladders are among the most dangerous things around, statistically. Scaffolding is a PITA but you have a little more wiggle room. Harder to steal in a boat yard too.

- DSK

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57 minutes ago, eric1207 said:

I priced those orchard ladders.  Yikes, even on CL they are hundreds of dollars.  My hedge is getting a bit tall for my old 10 foot step ladder.   Maybe its time for this near 70 year old to hire the local yard guy.

Oh... I guess we always bought them direct from the factory, which is just down the road.  But yeah - it doesn't pay to cheap out on ladders.  When I was a kid, people were still growing cherry trees 20 to 30 feet high.  You should have seen some of the old wooden spike ladders that would twist half way around by the time you got to the top.  Life is a lot simpler since people started using dwarfing rootstocks and just cut everything down to 12 feet.  (Although that means more trees per acre, more irrigation, more fertilizer, and more complication...). In short, prune everything down until you can reach it from your ladder.  

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Ladders are among the most dangerous things around, statistically. Scaffolding is a PITA but you have a little more wiggle room. Harder to steal in a boat yard too.

 

Safety is good, but so inconvenient. So, I end up with the worst of both worlds: planking between two stepladders to make a scaffold for the boat sides . :lol:

Such measures help keep boat prices down when the owner's family has to sell because of health issues.

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14 minutes ago, stief said:

Safety is good, but so inconvenient. So, I end up with the worst of both worlds: planking between two stepladders to make a scaffold for the boat sides . :lol:

Such measures help keep boat prices down when the owner's family has to sell because of health issues.

I think I'm working safe with them but my boat has a 4' draft and low freeboard. But step ladders are the only thing that will fit between boats in my yard. Great for painting the topsides. Here I'm on the max setting to varnish toe rails. 

1878778812_Stagingforeward_.thumb.jpg.90b5c3fb55dc717bfdcb71ba5e4827d2.jpg

Staging is the key to working well. The strenuous positions I see people work on boats is startling. 

Get your hands where the work is and you'll smile. 

64499582_Stagingboat.thumb.jpg.efc3a7dec1f859ad3f69383992da106f.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

I think I'm working safe with them but my boat has a 4' draft and low freeboard. But step ladders are the only thing that will fit between boats in my yard. Great for painting the topsides. Here I'm on the max setting to varnish toe rails. 

1878778812_Stagingforeward_.thumb.jpg.90b5c3fb55dc717bfdcb71ba5e4827d2.jpg

.....

 

I like the way your scaffolding is not only higher at the bow, but it curves to match the sheer

FB- Doug

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7 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Let me guess... you stepped back to admire your work

Ladders are among the most dangerous things around, statistically. Scaffolding is a PITA but you have a little more wiggle room. Harder to steal in a boat yard too.

- DSK

No, even more stupid than that.

I was building my house and painting the exposed rafters.Standing backwards on the ladder and reached out too far rather than getting down and moving the ladder. Well, it moved itself, I had nothing to grab and went the other way down to the concrete.

It was lucky I'd cleaned all the hard crap off of the floor so nothing to cause puncture injuries. Also that I had my cell phone in my pocket because I'd been expecting a call.

I rang one of my friends who lived around the corner to come & get me and drive me to the hospital. That bright idea lasted about 15 seconds when it became obvious it wasn't just the elbow. We then called the ambulance.

My GF was away for a couple weeks and was *NOT* impressed when I rang her a few days later after it became obvious I wasn't going to be able to escape from the hospital before her return. It was very fortunate that she'd had a lot of training & practice in caring for people with intellectual and physical disabilities.

As she kept telling me.

FKT

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On 4/11/2021 at 3:19 PM, Ishmael said:

Very kind offer, I wish you had been around in 2005. What really pissed me off is that the broker guaranteed there was no problem with the holding tank. As soon as we slid back the hatch we knew that was a lie.

Often times it is the sanitation hoses that are the cause of the horrendous odor emanating from below decks. Replacing them makes a boat unsmelly immediately if there is no leak elsewhere. Have to scoop a cup of bilge water out and give it a whiff above deck( preferably really close to the lifelines) and see if it has the same odor. If not, it’s likely that the sanitation hoses have absorbed their full share of aerosolized fecal matter. 

Once replaced, a boat will be relieved of its stench and the boat will invite the crew below decks once again.

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30 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

No, even more stupid than that.

I was building my house and painting the exposed rafters.Standing backwards on the ladder and reached out too far rather than getting down and moving the ladder. Well, it moved itself, I had nothing to grab and went the other way down to the concrete.

It was lucky I'd cleaned all the hard crap off of the floor so nothing to cause puncture injuries. Also that I had my cell phone in my pocket because I'd been expecting a call.

I rang one of my friends who lived around the corner to come & get me and drive me to the hospital. That bright idea lasted about 15 seconds when it became obvious it wasn't just the elbow. We then called the ambulance.

My GF was away for a couple weeks and was *NOT* impressed when I rang her a few days later after it became obvious I wasn't going to be able to escape from the hospital before her return. It was very fortunate that she'd had a lot of training & practice in caring for people with intellectual and physical disabilities.

As she kept telling me.

FKT

OUCH sorry to hear about that. Cement or brick is a very punishing surface to land on.

Glad you had good care though

- DSK

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

OUCH sorry to hear about that. Cement or brick is a very punishing surface to land on.

Glad you had good care though

- DSK

I was lucky, IMO. Could easily have broken my neck. I got enough function back to pass my seagoing medical after 6+ months of physiotherapy. At first I couldn't even touch my nose let alone get a glass of wine to my mouth. And let's not discuss learning to wipe your arse with the 'wrong' hand. I did manage to finish building the house then build a 16m x 13m shed 4.5m high, basically single-handed, then the 12m steel schooner. Stuff takes longer but you can still get it done. I've just finished framing up a 7.5 x 4.2m boat shed.

My GF & I have been together for over 20 years now. We sail regularly, got our techniques sorted so we can pick up or drop moorings, anchor etc without saying a word after the initial discussion WRT approaches etc. A few hand signals, never ever any yelling.

Anyway, point is, treat ladders with great caution and if at all possible, secure the top so they can't slide.

FKT

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

Often times it is the sanitation hoses that are the cause of the horrendous odor emanating from below decks. Replacing them makes a boat unsmelly immediately if there is no leak elsewhere. Have to scoop a cup of bilge water out and give it a whiff above deck( preferably really close to the lifelines) and see if it has the same odor. If not, it’s likely that the sanitation hoses have absorbed their full share of aerosolized fecal matter. 

Once replaced, a boat will be relieved of its stench and the boat will invite the crew below decks once again.

The classic standard 1 1/2" smooth white plastic hose commonly used for marine toilets is VERY odor-absorbent  after a few years.  It sometimes takes as little as a year or two  of regular use for these to become outrageously smelly. Trust me, this is from first-hand experience.

There are modern hoses that are a lot more odor-safe, and a lot more $$$.

They are worth it.

 

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53 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

My GF & I have been together for over 20 years now. We sail regularly, got our techniques sorted so we can pick up or drop moorings, anchor etc without saying a word after the initial discussion WRT approaches etc. A few hand signals, never ever any yelling.

It's such a pleasure to see folks who know what they're doing. 

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1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

It's such a pleasure to see folks who know what they're doing. 

Shit, I wouldn't go that far. We have NFI what we're doing. We just don't like to make it obvious.

FKT

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5 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Often times it is the sanitation hoses that are the cause of the horrendous odor emanating from below decks. Replacing them makes a boat unsmelly immediately if there is no leak elsewhere. Have to scoop a cup of bilge water out and give it a whiff above deck( preferably really close to the lifelines) and see if it has the same odor. If not, it’s likely that the sanitation hoses have absorbed their full share of aerosolized fecal matter. 

Once replaced, a boat will be relieved of its stench and the boat will invite the crew below decks once again.

No, this was a cracked tank in the bow, the lockers downstream were full. Or a hose had come loose, it didn't really matter. Once we saw the drips in the Cetol on the doors going sideways, and the corner of the sole that had turned to wet mulch, we were done. None of the winches spun, it was missing major pieces on deck, and it was overall a total disaster.

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So the next question that this thread kinda leads to is this:  Has the recent popularity in boats put any pressure on slip a availability and/or prices?  Which areas are worst or best these days? (Thinking US, but also curious further afield)

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Plenty of slips available here in our relatively small-town region on the east coast. But I will note that there are more boats out on the water - sailboats and stinkpots - than probably anytime in the past decade and maybe longer.

Up until Covid, around here we were complaining about how fewer and fewer boats were on the water than in the 1980s. Roughly the same number of boats were in the slips, but the number of boats out on weekends was maybe half that of 30 years ago. We wrote it off to people's addiction to the internet, and the increasingly full schedules of parents with their kids' organized sports etc. But Covid definitely brought more people back onto the water.

Now there is a waiting list for new boats at the local boatbuilders, and a lot more young people on the water...in powerboats. But since those are either stowed on homeowners' lifts or onto trailers, I'd guess there is almost no effect on the local slips.

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Nah.  Slips aren't available around here to start with.  We already have years-long waiting lists.  Fees are a function of the marina's long term debt and operating costs. (They're all publicly owned, near me.)  A couple of the marinas have room to add more slips, but somehow it hasn't pencilled-out yet. I'm not sure of the exact issues.  I don't think demand is the problem.  

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Over the last year our marina has reconfigured the layout, eliminated many of the smaller slips and expanded the number of bigger slips, and installed all-new floats and fingers. Our cost went up about 5%, as it has each year. Next year could see major increases, but there are slips available in the new layout and in other marinas around here, so they can't get too crazy on the price. I hope.

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On 4/16/2021 at 6:42 PM, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I was lucky, IMO. Could easily have broken my neck. I got enough function back to pass my seagoing medical after 6+ months of physiotherapy. At first I couldn't even touch my nose let alone get a glass of wine to my mouth. And let's not discuss learning to wipe your arse with the 'wrong' hand. I did manage to finish building the house then build a 16m x 13m shed 4.5m high, basically single-handed, then the 12m steel schooner. Stuff takes longer but you can still get it done. I've just finished framing up a 7.5 x 4.2m boat shed.

My GF & I have been together for over 20 years now. We sail regularly, got our techniques sorted so we can pick up or drop moorings, anchor etc without saying a word after the initial discussion WRT approaches etc. A few hand signals, never ever any yelling.

Anyway, point is, treat ladders with great caution and if at all possible, secure the top so they can't slide.

FKT

I have ladder stories and know 2 who had multiple fractures and many months of recovery. In the US on jobs OSHA requires the ladder be secured and my one near miss with a chainsaw was because I didn't stop to tie the ladder to the limb. Scared the crap out of my SO, I was winded, bruised and embarrassed. With a boat on the hard and a ladder unsecured? Like Dirty Harry said, do you feel lucky?

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I'm 15 miles up the Fraser River.  It made a lot of sense at the time.  There's good facilities very close by and I can make all the noise and dust I want right in the slip. 

But there isn't really a way to just go out for the day - it's overnight or not at all.  With my work schedule it's not too bad but it doesn't suit the wife's.  

Sometimes I'd like to go out just for the day.  Before COVID there were a lot of people I'd like to take sailing, but overnight?  Forget it.

The latest I've heard is that you pay to get on and keep paying to stay on the waiting list in some places.

 

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Might be a thought to mention to marina managers that with interest rates near zero and the gummint giving away free money for all sorts of things, this might be a good time to finally start that expansion.  (Although the thought of trying to get in-water work permits might be enough to make some of them take early retirement.)   

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On 4/3/2021 at 12:37 AM, h20man said:

Another interesting twist..  WFH (Work From Home) is now accepted...  and Starlink is a new way of being connected anywhere.. (Just waiting for a marine version which is supposedly on its way).   Now Home is where you want to be.. RV.. or boat.  

 

On 4/3/2021 at 1:25 AM, SASSAFRASS said:

I don't think people are realistically factoring in the stationary aspect.  Alot of coastal cruising you can sit in a slip for months and still enjoy all the benifits of the tropics but be able to work weekdays and go out for weekends and longer trips. The star link could be great for work at home in many coastal spots.

Elon Musk claims that by the end of the year the software shall allow remote.....

Claims it will work whilst driving your RV.. and no GEORestrictions... so .. hopefully a boat is going to be fine...

QUOTE from:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1382842277719003136?s=20

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

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On 4/9/2021 at 9:27 AM, robtoujours said:

Money printing via zirp policies = mass asset buying by the 1% = everyone else gets impoverished by inflation 

This is known as the Cantillon Effect.   To expand on the mechanics a bit, the large wall street banks get money at near zero percent, then buy anything they think will do better than zero percent return.  Bonds used to be the asset of choice but in recent years its been stocks.  That's how you can have a %30 decline in the countries economy due to forced lockdowns yet still have a booming stock market.

https://azizonomics.com/2012/08/07/the-cantillon-effect/

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I am always watching and looking....if I am buying or not....but I can speak to what is happening locally...

Around the Great Lakes, Lake Michigan in particular, the used "cash" boat market was pretty good for sellers. Good meaning you could actually sell a boat. Usually a cash boat 25-30 years old or more could take YEARS to sell....and for "big" boats on the Great lakes (> 40') and older than 20 years (outside of easy financing territory) the market it is still a buyers market. Not a big market of buyers looking for 40' plus boats in the Great Lakes. Storage and dockage of big boats is becoming a problem. MKE alone has lost storage facilities and power boats are eating up all the bigger slips. But....

If you have a chunk of cash there are lots of good boat > 36' foot to be had here. Freshwater boats. Problem is getting them out of the Great Lakes is a cost that can be spent elsewhere. So boats come to the Great Lakes....and never leave for the most part.

Different story in the 27-32 foot range good luck finding a good one, those boats are selling (at fair prices). Complicated bare, twitchy race boats...not so much in the eye of the millennial buyer with sailing experience...they want more comfort and ability to singlehand and seasonal on-board living and Air B&B...old race boats always a bargain up here. (like everywhere)

There are younger sailors in the market here which is good. But they are quite picky and seem reluctant to put the sweat into even a mostly cosmetic renovation...

I keep looking in the 40-44 foot range, something I can still fit in a 45 foot slip. But I don't have the requisite cash to purchase (yet)...and I haven't decided if that is what I want to do...

I just got my boats in a state that I am ready to work, play and live on them this coming season. I wfh. Home office and tether my phone at boat...works well.  Last season I pretty much lived and worked on the boat from early June to November. Looking forward to that again and racing Dragonfly, my COVID project boat of last season. A Pearson Flyer. There is a thread on that somewhere....the other boat Avalon, S2 11.0m I bought a few seasons ago and have done a lot of projects on and most are done. (there is a thread on that too) Now want to get a new mainsail for the S2 and a gennaker and I am still repowering Dragonfly with electric yet this season.

I daysail mostly and race once a week or so....lot of short and single handed sailing. Might take a little trip across this season, or a few coastal weekend jaunts. Maybe not...I always say that.

But if someone offers I might be open to selling both and score the 44 footer I've been watching. Oh and If you want to find out if you can afford a 44 footer own two boats for a while....its like owning one big one.

 

 

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IMG_20200824_152238 (1).jpg

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