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Ron Desantis - Burning this bitch down


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6 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Publix paid $100k out of the goodness of their hearts. I’m sure they gave the same to a dem-led lobbying org. 

Darn it - herewith a Democrat shredding the Left's narrative:

Looking to expand COVID-19 vaccine distribution sites over the winter, Florida’s emergency management director says he first reached out to Walmart, not Publix, to execute the mission.

The reason: Walmart has more locations than Publix in socially vulnerable, rural areas in Florida. But Walmart wouldn’t be ready to distribute the vaccine for three weeks, Jared Moskowitz, the state’s emergency management director, told National Review. So, he reached out to Publix, a Florida-based grocery and pharmacy chain.

“Publix said they could be ready in 72 hours,” said Moskowitz, who is a Democrat. “I picked Publix. Walked into the governor’s office the next day, gave them the plan about why we needed to turn on more locations, especially in some rural, fiscally constrained areas.”

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/democratic-florida-officials-explain-how-60-minutes-twisted-desantis-publix-story/

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Not for nothing said:

incomes, salaries, capital gains, to start with

OK, let's start with the first one. How do you calculate income?

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6 minutes ago, Not for nothing said:

incomes, salaries, capital gains, to start with

What's going to happen to nonprofit entities (501c3s) such as art institutes, youth centers, etc. if their donations are no longer tax deductible?  My guess is that they will struggle.  This has no bearing on me if the 12K deduction continues to exist, but deeper and more generous pockets may not be as benevolent with nothing in it for them. 

I agree with you (and Warren Buffett) that the rich have too many ways to 'game' the current system, but let's keep the baby when we throw out the bath water.  

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15 minutes ago, Not for nothing said:

incomes, salaries, capital gains, to start with

In my day, my salary and capital gains were part of my total income, are you suggesting we tax them twice?  

Why don't you give this just a little thought and come back with a real plan?

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9 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

In my day, my salary and capital gains were part of my total income, are you suggesting we tax them twice?  

Why don't you give this just a little thought and come back with a real plan?

I would love to come out with a real plan, That's why I  put it to the great minds of SA, and even if I came out with the perfect plan who would approve it!

Also I'm not a tax guy, 

As you state it would be the total income as per total income of Line 9, which I believes covers all incomes, Then everyone pays say 10% of that to the IRS.

If you have a favorite Charity ( especially churches so you can to get into heavens). Give to a cause of your choice for the good of the cause, NOT a tax deduction

one thing maybe a deduction would be SALT's?

I just think the whole is rigged for the rich and politicians, while the working man get screwed, The like of Buffet, Bezos,  the Koch brothers to name a few pay little or NO taxes, And the working man gets screwed with having  paying 16-25%.

Just some thoughts. even if I/we came up with the perfect plan would the elected officials make it law ,NOT 

 

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2 hours ago, Not for nothing said:

I would love to come out with a real plan, That's why I  put it to the great minds of SA, and even if I came out with the perfect plan who would approve it!

Also I'm not a tax guy, 

As you state it would be the total income as per total income of Line 9, which I believes covers all incomes, Then everyone pays say 10% of that to the IRS.

If you have a favorite Charity ( especially churches so you can to get into heavens). Give to a cause of your choice for the good of the cause, NOT a tax deduction

one thing maybe a deduction would be SALT's?

I just think the whole is rigged for the rich and politicians, while the working man get screwed, The like of Buffet, Bezos,  the Koch brothers to name a few pay little or NO taxes, And the working man gets screwed with having  paying 16-25%.

Just some thoughts. even if I/we came up with the perfect plan would the elected officials make it law ,NOT 

 

Well, it's not the case so much that the mega-wealthy pay NO tax, they just pay far far less than their share when apportioned by income.

In other words, the top 3% of income earners bring home about 40% of the income earned in the country. They pay about 25% of the tax.

The tier from about 90% down to 75% of income earners actually have it the worst, they earn a little more than 20% and pay about 30%

These numbers are actually from the IRS a few years back, but if anything, I'm pretty sure it is more skewed now. The drop in top marginal tax rates hurts the lower earners by imposing a greater share of the tax burden.

Then factor in the difference in earned interest, and capital gains... most mega wealthy people don't get a paycheck and much ... or most... of their income is not considered "income" by the US tax laws and thus is taxed at a lower rate.

When cheeseburgers and blue jeans cost the same for a millionaire and janitor, the progressive income tax (ie as your income goes up, each higher bracket of income is taxed at a higher rate) is the most fair system.

- DSK

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15 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

What's going to happen to nonprofit entities (501c3s) such as art institutes, youth centers, etc. if their donations are no longer tax deductible?  My guess is that they will struggle.  This has no bearing on me if the 12K deduction continues to exist, but deeper and more generous pockets may not be as benevolent with nothing in it for them. 

I agree with you (and Warren Buffett) that the rich have too many ways to 'game' the current system, but let's keep the baby when we throw out the bath water.  

I frankly don't care.  People should give to charity because they want to, not because you get $$ for it.  It's a ponzi scheme anyway.  Every $ that is deducted from your taxes is a $ that comes out of the US tax coffers.  Why not just fund charities directly from the .gov instead of this complex scheme of deductions.  There's far too many loopholes and "charities" that nothing but tax havens.  

I say end all that shit.  Especially end the mortgage interest deduction.  It's the #1 (or close to it) tax give away to rich people.  End all deductions and have a single sheet of paper to pay taxes on.  I'm even ok with keeping it a progressive tax......  Fill in your total income that includes ALL salary, dividends and any other money no matter the source, minus any losses - and pay X % tax on it based on your bracket.  Done.  

And I say this as someone who's made enough money over the last 20+ years that I can itemize like a big dog.  Especially over the last 10 years or so, I giggle every year over the shit I can legally deduct and not have to pay taxes on.  Some of it is ludicrous.  Why should the gov't and the US taxpayers subsidize my printer paper costs for my home office?  Or my mileage on my car I use for business?  

Color me as a NON-fan of social engineering via the tax code.  The tax code should be used SOLELY for funding the operating costs of the gov't.  If you want to social engineer shit, then use the money not lost in BS tax deductions and fund them as a standalone program.  

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52 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

... Especially end the mortgage interest deduction.  It's the #1 (or close to it) tax give away to rich people. ...

Yes, definitely end the mortgage interest deduction. But the reason is different. People bid on houses based on the house payment they think they can afford. I can afford $x000/mo house payment but the interest part of the house payment is tax deductible! So I can bid a lot higher! Yeah, and so can everyone else so the price gets driven up. Who wins? Real estate brokers (commissions are a percentage) and mortgage companies. Now try, just try to take away a tax deduction. A lot of other (smarter) countries don't have mortgage interest deductions.

BTW, a nice trick is to pay the closing costs as the buyer. The money is going from you to the seller anyways, so negotiate the price and then deduct the closing costs from the price and pay the closing costs yourself. Then you don't end up paying property taxes on the closing costs because math.

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, it's not the case so much that the mega-wealthy pay NO tax, they just pay far far less than their share when apportioned by income.

In other words, the top 3% of income earners bring home about 40% of the income earned in the country. They pay about 25% of the tax.

The tier from about 90% down to 75% of income earners actually have it the worst, they earn a little more than 20% and pay about 30%

These numbers are actually from the IRS a few years back, but if anything, I'm pretty sure it is more skewed now. The drop in top marginal tax rates hurts the lower earners by imposing a greater share of the tax burden.

Then factor in the difference in earned interest, and capital gains... most mega wealthy people don't get a paycheck and much ... or most... of their income is not considered "income" by the US tax laws and thus is taxed at a lower rate.

When cheeseburgers and blue jeans cost the same for a millionaire and janitor, the progressive income tax (ie as your income goes up, each higher bracket of income is taxed at a higher rate) is the most fair system.

- DSK

Flat tax with tax free threshold will help.

 

In Australia, first 50k tax free followed by a 40% tax rate for all income over 50k will mean little change for the majority of tax payers. But will help with the very low income individuals.

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12 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Well, it's not the case so much that the mega-wealthy pay NO tax, they just pay far far less than their share when apportioned by income.

In other words, the top 3% of income earners bring home about 40% of the income earned in the country. They pay about 25% of the tax.

I wonder if those figures include that massive tax dodging mostly by the wealthy ?? 

We're talking unpaid taxes of almost $ 400 Billion per year. 

If the tax rate is 20 %, then the total income that was not taxed would be $ 2 Trillion, right ? 

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4 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Fill in your total income that includes ALL salary, dividends and any other money no matter the source, minus any losses

Uh oh. A deduction crept in there already.

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6 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Flat tax with tax free threshold will help.

 

In Australia, first 50k tax free followed by a 40% tax rate for all income over 50k will mean little change for the majority of tax payers. But will help with the very low income individuals.

1- that's not a flat tax, really

2- a flat tax is regressive.... ie takes the most, by proportion, away from the lower income households

- DSK

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7 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

In Australia, first 50k tax free followed by a 40% tax rate for all income over 50k will mean little change for the majority of tax payers. But will help with the very low income individuals.

You realise that the above is an effective tax reduction for anyone on over $300k right? Currently income over $180k is taxed at 45% (+ levies etc), you propose dropping that rate? Plus dropping the amount of tax paid for anyone under $165k. So where is the money going to come from? 

BTW, I agree completely with the idea of simplifying the tax system. Most PAYE folk get minimum deductions anyway, so would be happy to move to zero deductions with a slight tax rate cut to justify.

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On 4/3/2021 at 2:18 PM, tommays said:

I can see it when traveling to a different country BUT our you really going to require swiping into the grocery store considering so many people apparently can’t get any type of photo ID 

You are going to have to do a temp test wear a mask regardless if you want to go to a movie/concert etc. for the foreseeable future..  What's the diff?? 

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On 4/6/2021 at 4:08 PM, Raz'r said:

It’s a synthetic steroid. It’s magic. Aches and pains go away, inflammation goes away. Bum shoulder? Fixed. Fluid in the lungs, buh bye. Allergies? Sayonara.

but your body stops making it soon after you start the synthetic stuff so you end up with a lifelong addiction.  That and puffy face, and possibly shriveled balls....

 

Torso weight gain, depression, fatigue, mood swings and more.

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On 4/4/2021 at 11:03 AM, billy backstay said:

 

Per the CDC, 80% of people need to be vaccinated for it to be downgraded from pandemic to epidemic.  We will never get there, when 40% of Trumpublican's, or just plain Regressive's will shun the vaccine....  I noticed when we were in Charleston, SC recently, there were lots of folks not wearing masks, but back home in CT, it's nearly 100% in practice here.

Kenosha Wi same thing.  Was visiting my parents for the last month in Chicago(they got jabbed mod) Chicago was ok.. Wi, not so much(See Kenosha thread)..  Went to a restaurant for the first time in a yr (indoor) Highwood IL, so the capital of the BMW foodie crowd.  The old farts were all maskless as they got jabbed.  I literally wore my mask while eating as there was not compliance in that crowd.  Parents friends got jabbed all over 75 ish.  They were coming over and hanging out...  I was banished to my bedroom..  So glad to be back in my little 5 mi bubble in Co.....  get jabbed on the 12th and i am fully expecting to get a vax passport.    Unfortunately, this aint gonna be over any time soon...  

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On 4/4/2021 at 6:40 PM, Burning Man said:

I'm almost willing to risk the inevitable hurt feelings and possible potential for violence just to see people without masks shuffled off to the "no mask, no vax" corner to be served and then sit there for an hour while the waitress gets suited up in full Ebola PPE/respirator to take their order.  Dude, that would be worth the price of admission right there.  

We already have the bubbles in the streets...  Covid only" seating would work....  Bonus is you could set them up like zoo enclosures...  Yes johney....  those are the ones that killed gma and your buddy timmy...."

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The idea of a simple flat tax on income is just not workable. Take JBSFs mileage example. There are some cases where mileage is incidental to the work and an elimination of that deduction would be reasonable, but what about the cases where your business is moving people or things around in a vehicle, such as an Uber driver or Amazon delivery contractor. In those cases, many folks would  now be paying taxes on revenue which is generating a loss after taxes. Income vs revenue vs cash flow will always be something that needs to be defined in some level of detail, will always have some cases which look like loopholes, and can never truly be simple. If we want something that looks simpler, then a VAT is the answer particularly when it is extended to the digital realm. 

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9 hours ago, Burning Man said:

I frankly don't care.  People should give to charity because they want to, not because you get $$ for it.  It's a ponzi scheme anyway.  Every $ that is deducted from your taxes is a $ that comes out of the US tax coffers.  Why not just fund charities directly from the .gov instead of this complex scheme of deductions.  There's far too many loopholes and "charities" that nothing but tax havens.  

I say end all that shit.  Especially end the mortgage interest deduction.  It's the #1 (or close to it) tax give away to rich people.  End all deductions and have a single sheet of paper to pay taxes on.  I'm even ok with keeping it a progressive tax......  Fill in your total income that includes ALL salary, dividends and any other money no matter the source, minus any losses - and pay X % tax on it based on your bracket.  Done.  

And I say this as someone who's made enough money over the last 20+ years that I can itemize like a big dog.  Especially over the last 10 years or so, I giggle every year over the shit I can legally deduct and not have to pay taxes on.  Some of it is ludicrous.  Why should the gov't and the US taxpayers subsidize my printer paper costs for my home office?  Or my mileage on my car I use for business?  

Color me as a NON-fan of social engineering via the tax code.  The tax code should be used SOLELY for funding the operating costs of the gov't.  If you want to social engineer shit, then use the money not lost in BS tax deductions and fund them as a standalone program.  

What if my business is photography and I use thousands of dollars worth of expensive ink and paper and drive my car all over the place to do my job? My net income might be pretty high before expenses and being taxed on that would make the business not viable.

If I sell a boat I built for $500,000 and it cost me $400,000 to build it, tax on 500K would put me right out of business.

If my employer wants me to print things AND pay for the paper out of after-tax income, they can blow me once for every 10 pages.

See how tricky this gets? If all you ever do is an office job and get a paycheck it is easy, but as soon as you are doing something more complex it is a very fine line between making many businesses impossible to run and leaving loopholes a fat elephant can get through sideways*.

* go to the local campground and note the number of big diesel trucks there that have company logos. Nice for your camper-towing rig to be deductible :rolleyes:

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Len and Kent have hit on why I asked above for a definition of income. No, it's not just revenue. It's revenue minus expenses. Or, with expenses (scary word alert) deducted.

On 4/7/2021 at 11:47 PM, Burning Man said:

I'm even ok with keeping it a progressive tax.....

Color me as a NON-fan of social engineering via the tax code. 

OK, but what color should the first line quoted above be?

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5 hours ago, Shambolic Tom said:

Len and Kent have hit on why I asked above for a definition of income. No, it's not just revenue. It's revenue minus expenses. Or, with expenses (scary word alert) deducted.

OK, but what color should the first line quoted above be?

As always with simple Tom, It’s not as simple as revenue minus expenses

sales tax, revenue only.

business income tax. Theoretically revenue minus expenses, but revenue can be defined oddly as can expenses. Many companies show Wall Street great resultsyet show the tax man nothing and pay nothing

 

 

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On 4/7/2021 at 9:39 PM, Olsonist said:

Yes, definitely end the mortgage interest deduction. But the reason is different. People bid on houses based on the house payment they think they can afford. I can afford $x000/mo house payment but the interest part of the house payment is tax deductible! So I can bid a lot higher! Yeah, and so can everyone else so the price gets driven up. Who wins? Real estate brokers (commissions are a percentage) and mortgage companies. Now try, just try to take away a tax deduction. A lot of other (smarter) countries don't have mortgage interest deductions.

BTW, a nice trick is to pay the closing costs as the buyer. The money is going from you to the seller anyways, so negotiate the price and then deduct the closing costs from the price and pay the closing costs yourself. Then you don't end up paying property taxes on the closing costs because math.

We are both right.  But usual, it's always a little more complicated.  https://www.npr.org/transcripts/613832893

 

Note the GOP tax bill in 2018 took a big chip out of the mortgage interest deduction and it's negative effect on the economy.  

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