Jump to content

Recommended Posts

23 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

And you ungrateful fukers can thank my Dad for helping y'all from having to live on seaweed, Wasabi, raw octopus, urchin roe and sashimi. 'Cuz you all would have died off by 1957.....

 

And my uncle. just turned 19. shot dead crossing a river in "Burma" 

I think the point is that Philip did no more or less than many good servicemen who fought and died. 

Bravery is rarely rewarded when you're just a Greek foot soldier, thousands of whom fought and died against impossible odds giving allied forces (including Phil) time to escape. They are nameless.

But he got nicer tea and scones in the officers quarters. Why?

Because he was "royal" and automatically an officer.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 309
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

RIP. He served his country and the extended Commonwealth until his dying day. Never complained about it and just got on with it. As a British citizen I will mourn his passing with respect. Clearl

He was a veteran and a sailor, counts for a lot in my book. Fair winds, Prince Phillip. Unless the person was truly, heinously, evil and malevolent, speaking ill of the dead is poor form. I don't

Philip Mountbatten, rest his soul. There was a story years ago, sailing at Cowes and Prince Philip on port tack. Starboard tacker hails. Prince does not alter course, sails on. Starboard tacker duck

Posted Images

28 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

And my uncle. just turned 19. shot dead crossing a river in "Burma" 

I think the point is that Philip did no more or less than many good servicemen who fought and died. 

Bravery is rarely rewarded when you're just a Greek foot soldier, thousands of whom fought and died against impossible odds giving allied forces (including Phil) time to escape. They are nameless.

But he got nicer tea and scones in the officers quarters. Why?

Because he was "royal" and automatically an officer.

Sometimes it's best to keep your big yap shut if you've got no idea what you're talking about...his family escaped Greece in the 20's way before "Allied forces" would've been around the peninsula...he attended the Royal Naval College which is the equivalent of a US service academy, so automatically came out with a Midshipman rank which he held when mentioned in dispatches for distinction in action in WWII...I am nothing near an ardent royalist, but believe strongly in giving credit where it's due and as far as I'm concerned, Philip paid his dues...

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

And my uncle. just turned 19. shot dead crossing a river in "Burma" 

I think the point is that Philip did no more or less than many good servicemen who fought and died. 

Bravery is rarely rewarded when you're just a Greek foot soldier, thousands of whom fought and died against impossible odds giving allied forces (including Phil) time to escape. They are nameless.

But he got nicer tea and scones in the officers quarters. Why?

Because he was "royal" and automatically an officer.

You really need to check your facts before you subject us to another brain fart...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

There has been an ongoing Monarchy vs Republican debate in Australia that has been active for over a generation.This discussion has in most part remained civil with the majority respecting the others opposing views.It is perhaps time to remember that a Nation and Head of State is in Mourning with around  90% of the UK population being born after he assumed his high profile role.While we are all entitled to express our personal thoughts or opinions common decency should see us display a degree of sensitivity to aid those who are hurting.Civility costs nothing.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

So sad to hear of the passing of Philip......RiP buddy....

.Eyh6ZS-WgAAx3EU.jpg.a2132c92f222b133d37834e9a0c87ef4.jpg

uhhhh, aint that old Capt Rogers after he doesn't come back thru the time warp thingy?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well...I never really understood the whole Royals thing......but he seemed a decent sort. Served his country in combat then did years of gladhanding and I guess diplomacy on behalf of his nation. If you’re gonna have Royals he seems like he did mostly good stuff. Not sure any of us would hold up in perfection to the kind of scrutiny they/he have as part of the deal. Goes with the territory I suppose. Anyway, this rebellious colonial certainly bears him no malice. Fair winds sir. 

Although we did get in one heck of a bar tussle with a number of limeys on liberty in Hong Kong over a very unkind remark one of us made about the Queen just after the limeys all stood for a heartfelt toast to her. It became very clear to me they really like their Royals. Beer was involved though.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, olaf hart said:

You really need to check your facts before you subject us to another brain fart...

Meli check facts? Surely you jest. Why on earth would she start now? The warm inner glow of hugging what she knows far outweighs anything like actual facts.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Grabbler said:

Sometimes it's best to keep your big yap shut if you've got no idea what you're talking about...his family escaped Greece in the 20's way before "Allied forces" would've been around the peninsula...he attended the Royal Naval College which is the equivalent of a US service academy, so automatically came out with a Midshipman rank which he held when mentioned in dispatches for distinction in action in WWII...I am nothing near an ardent royalist, but believe strongly in giving credit where it's due and as far as I'm concerned, Philip paid his dues...

sigh. He fought in Crete. You know? The Battle pf Crete?. the one where the Kiwi bloke was commander and the Raggedy remnants of the Greek army and Australians fought like hell to get the English out.

Greek troops were armed with Mannlicher–Schönauer 6.5 mm mountain carbines or ex-Austrian 8x56R Steyr-Mannlicher M1895 rifles, the latter a part of post-World War I reparations; about 1,000 Greeks carried antique Fusil Gras mle 1874 rifles. The garrison had been stripped of its best crew-served weapons, which were sent to the mainland; there were twelve obsolescent St. Étienne Mle 1907 light machine-guns and forty miscellaneous LMGs. Many Greek soldiers had fewer than thirty rounds of ammunition but could not be supplied by the British, who had no stocks in the correct calibres. Those with insufficient ammunition were posted to the eastern sector of Crete, where the Germans were not expected in force. The 8th Greek Regiment was under strength and many soldiers were poorly trained and poorly equipped. The unit was attached to 10th New Zealand Infantry Brigade (Brigadier Howard Kippenberger), who placed it in a defensive position around the village of Alikianos where, with local civilian volunteers, they held out against the German 7th Engineer Battalion.

Though Kippenberger had referred to them as "...nothing more than malaria-ridden little chaps...with only four weeks of service," the Greek troops repulsed German attacks until they ran out of ammunition, whereupon they began charging with fixed bayonets, overrunning German positions and capturing rifles and ammunition. The engineers had to be reinforced by two battalions of German paratroops, yet the 8th Regiment held on until 27 May, when the Germans made a combined arms assault by Luftwaffe aircraft and mountain troops. The Greek stand helped to protect the retreat of the Commonwealth forces, who were evacuated at Sfakia. Beevor and McDougal Stewart write that the defence of Alikianos gained at least 24 more hours for the completion of the final leg of the evacuation behind Layforce. The troops who were protected as they withdrew had begun the battle with more and better equipment than the 8th Greek Regiment.[

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Shortforbob said:

sigh. He fought in Crete. You know? The Battle pf Crete?. the one where the Kiwi bloke was commander and the Raggedy remnants of the Greek army and Australians fought like hell to get the English out.

Greek troops were armed with Mannlicher–Schönauer 6.5 mm mountain carbines or ex-Austrian 8x56R Steyr-Mannlicher M1895 rifles, the latter a part of post-World War I reparations; about 1,000 Greeks carried antique Fusil Gras mle 1874 rifles. The garrison had been stripped of its best crew-served weapons, which were sent to the mainland; there were twelve obsolescent St. Étienne Mle 1907 light machine-guns and forty miscellaneous LMGs. Many Greek soldiers had fewer than thirty rounds of ammunition but could not be supplied by the British, who had no stocks in the correct calibres. Those with insufficient ammunition were posted to the eastern sector of Crete, where the Germans were not expected in force. The 8th Greek Regiment was under strength and many soldiers were poorly trained and poorly equipped. The unit was attached to 10th New Zealand Infantry Brigade (Brigadier Howard Kippenberger), who placed it in a defensive position around the village of Alikianos where, with local civilian volunteers, they held out against the German 7th Engineer Battalion.

Though Kippenberger had referred to them as "...nothing more than malaria-ridden little chaps...with only four weeks of service," the Greek troops repulsed German attacks until they ran out of ammunition, whereupon they began charging with fixed bayonets, overrunning German positions and capturing rifles and ammunition. The engineers had to be reinforced by two battalions of German paratroops, yet the 8th Regiment held on until 27 May, when the Germans made a combined arms assault by Luftwaffe aircraft and mountain troops. The Greek stand helped to protect the retreat of the Commonwealth forces, who were evacuated at Sfakia. Beevor and McDougal Stewart write that the defence of Alikianos gained at least 24 more hours for the completion of the final leg of the evacuation behind Layforce. The troops who were protected as they withdrew had begun the battle with more and better equipment than the 8th Greek Regiment.[

Oh and believe me those people paid for it

 Alikianos 

Massacred and nameless. But Phil's being singled out for praise today

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rotnest Express said:

There has been an ongoing Monarchy vs Republican debate in Australia that has been active for over a generation.This discussion has in most part remained civil with the majority respecting the others opposing views.It is perhaps time to remember that a Nation and Head of State is in Mourning with around  90% of the UK population being born after he assumed his high profile role.While we are all entitled to express our personal thoughts or opinions common decency should see us display a degree of sensitivity to aid those who are hurting.Civility costs nothing.

Hurting? (OK..if you're referring to his family)

But surely you jest.

You'd be one of those ten pound poms, like myself that arrived as a child in the 70's

We only stayed in Perth 6 months.

Ghastly place full of homesick pommies trying to make a "little england" 12,000 miles from "Home"

I somehow doubt that England is actually "in Mourning" 

Most of them will react with a "Oh well, he had a good innings" at best

or a roll eyes and MEH.

Pretty much like when the Queens Mum died. 

It's all simply grist to the propaganda mill. A show.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bump-n-Grind said:

uhhhh, aint that old Capt Rogers after he doesn't come back thru the time warp thingy?

Yeah, I think you're right....but close enough though eh?

Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

sigh. He fought in Crete. You know? The Battle pf Crete?. the one where the Kiwi bloke was commander and the Raggedy remnants of the Greek army and Australians fought like hell to get the English out.

Greek troops were armed with Mannlicher–Schönauer 6.5 mm mountain carbines or ex-Austrian 8x56R Steyr-Mannlicher M1895 rifles, the latter a part of post-World War I reparations; about 1,000 Greeks carried antique Fusil Gras mle 1874 rifles. The garrison had been stripped of its best crew-served weapons, which were sent to the mainland; there were twelve obsolescent St. Étienne Mle 1907 light machine-guns and forty miscellaneous LMGs. Many Greek soldiers had fewer than thirty rounds of ammunition but could not be supplied by the British, who had no stocks in the correct calibres. Those with insufficient ammunition were posted to the eastern sector of Crete, where the Germans were not expected in force. The 8th Greek Regiment was under strength and many soldiers were poorly trained and poorly equipped. The unit was attached to 10th New Zealand Infantry Brigade (Brigadier Howard Kippenberger), who placed it in a defensive position around the village of Alikianos where, with local civilian volunteers, they held out against the German 7th Engineer Battalion.

Though Kippenberger had referred to them as "...nothing more than malaria-ridden little chaps...with only four weeks of service," the Greek troops repulsed German attacks until they ran out of ammunition, whereupon they began charging with fixed bayonets, overrunning German positions and capturing rifles and ammunition. The engineers had to be reinforced by two battalions of German paratroops, yet the 8th Regiment held on until 27 May, when the Germans made a combined arms assault by Luftwaffe aircraft and mountain troops. The Greek stand helped to protect the retreat of the Commonwealth forces, who were evacuated at Sfakia. Beevor and McDougal Stewart write that the defence of Alikianos gained at least 24 more hours for the completion of the final leg of the evacuation behind Layforce. The troops who were protected as they withdrew had begun the battle with more and better equipment than the 8th Greek Regiment.[

And as a midshipman on HMS Valiant at that time, you find him responsible for sufficient to be so disrespectful?

shame he saved your mum

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

And as a midshipman on HMS Valiant at that time, you find him responsible for sufficient to be so disrespectful?

shame he saved your mum

Here you go. Posted without comment

I'm not being disrespectful. I don't know how he saved my mum when she was hiding from bombs under the Kitchen table in Nottingham and he was watching German Air force and Paratroopers overrun Crete while fighting off Caiquies full of Italians.

HMS Valiant's role in the battle of Crete

18th - At 2000 hours Force A 1, comprising the battleships WARSPITE (Flag of CS7, Rear Admiral Rawlings) and VALIANT, light cruiser AJAX and destroyers KIMBERLEY, JANUS, ISIS, HEREWARD, DECOY, HERO, GRIFFIN and HMAS NAPIER departed Alexandria to relieve Force A off Crete.

 

19th - Force A 1 arrived off south west Crete and Force A and B were released to return to Alexandria to refuel.
Destroyers HOTSPUR and IMPERIAL detached from Force A and joined Force A1.

 

(The objective of Force A 1 to prevent the intervention of the Italian Fleet in the invasion of Crete. All other Forces were tasked with preventing German troop from reaching Crete by sea).

 

20th - At 0530 hours Force A 1 was 100 miles west of Crete covering the light forces working inshore.
At 0800 hours the German airborne attack on Crete began. From their position the ships of Force A 1 could see the Ju 52 transports and the DFS 230A gliders carrying the German first wave of assault forces to attack 
Maleme airfield.
At 2200 hours IMPERIAL and KIMBERLEY detached to join Force D.

 

21st - At 0530 hours Force A 1 was in approximate position 35-42N, 22-12E, 60 miles west of the Antikythira Strait steaming east to RV with Force D.
At 0800 west of the Kithera Strait Force D, comprising light cruisers DIDO, AJAX, ORION and destroyers ISIS, IMPERIAL, JANUS and KIMBERLEY joined Force A 1.
In the forenoon AJAX was damaged by a near miss.
During the day Force A 1 remained to the south west of Kithera prepared to prevent any attempt by the Italian Fleet to support the attack on Crete.
At 1800 hours Force D comprising DIDO, AJAX, ORION, HASTY, HEREWARD, JANUS and KIMBERLEY detached from Force A 1 to attack enemy troop convoys.
At 2000 hours Force B comprising GLOUCESTER, FIJI, GREYHOUND and GRIFFIN detached to patrol off Cape Matapan.
Throughout the day Force A 1 was under heavy air attack.

 

22nd - At 0530 hours Force A 1 was in approximate position 35-24N, 22-45E, 45 miles south west of the Kythira channel steaming north west.
At 0700 hours west of the Antikythira Channel, Force D, comprising DIDO, AJAX, ORION, HASTY, HEREWARD, JANUS and KIMBERLEY rejoined Force A 1.
At 0830 hours, south west of Kythira, Force B, comprising GLOUCESTER, FIJI, GREYHOUND and GRIFFIN joined Force A 1, after having been under continuous air attack since 0630 hours.

 

(During the 20th and 21st the Luftwaffe forces were fully occupied supporting the German paratroops on Crete, so no attacks were made on British ships. However the Luftwaffe was fully aware of the location of all British naval forces. On the 22nd the Luftwaffe was ready to throw all its weight against the British ships. On the morning of the 22nd Forces A1, B and C were within 120 to 150 miles of the airfields of the Luftwaffe VIII Fliegerkorps who had up to 228 level bombers, Ju 88, He 111 & Do 17, 205 Ju 87 dive bombers Ju 87 and 230 fighter bombers Me 109 & Me 110, available to attack the British ships. The Luftwaffe took full advantage of their complete air superiority and the closeness of the British ships to their bases. At 0530 hours the first Ju 87’s took off and headed south east for the British ships)

 

Forces A1, B and D now patrolled 20 to 30 miles west of the Kithera Channel as Rear Admiral Rawlings stated in his report 'serving a useful purpose by attracting enemy aircraft'.
By 0945 hours all the British naval forces were under sustained attack from 650 German aircraft.
At 1045 hours Force A 1 was in approximate position 36N, 23E when on the CinC’s orders Force D was detached to return to Alexandria. Also at this time an audit of remaining high angle ammunition revealed the VALIANT was best placed with 80% remaining.

At 1225 hours Admiral Rawlings received a message from CS15, Rear Admiral King, and CinC Force C, stating that the NAIAD had been badly damaged and he was in need of support. On receipt of the report Rawlings decided to go to the assistance of King and course was set westward at 23 knots into the Aegean.
At 1320 hours the destroyer GREYHOUND was detached to 
sink a large caique spotted between the islands of Pori and Antikythira. 
At 1325 hours Force C joined Forces A 1 and B and course was set westwards. Rear Admiral King, as senior officer, now took command of the Fleet. However Force C continued to operate remote from Rawlings.
At 1332 hours just as the combined force was entering the Kithera Channel, WARSPITE was attacked by three Me 109 fighter bombers, each armed with a 250kg semi-armour piercing bomb. She was hit by one bomb which caused extensive damage,  reducing her speed to 18 knots. After putting out the fires and some temporary repairs WARSPITE stayed with the Fleet.
At 1351 hours, in sight of the Fleet, the GREYHOUND having sunk the caique was returning to the Fleet when she was attacked by eight Ju 87’s, she was hit by three bombs in succession and sank stern first at 1406 hours in position 36N, 23-10E.
At 1355 hours t
he destroyers KANDAHAR and KINGSTON were detached to go to GREYHOUND’s aid, but ended up picking up survivors whilst coming under heavy air attack themselves.
At 1358 hours King called upon Rawlings to go to GREYHOUND’s aid.
At 1400 hours King countermanded the order and ordered Rawlings to provide close support for Force C.
At 1402 hours, King ordered the light cruiser FIJI to provide the destroyers with anti aircraft defence, and five minutes later King ordered GLOUCESTER to also assist the destroyers.

 

(In ordering the cruisers to assist the destroyers, Rear Admiral King, made a huge blunder as he was not aware of their much reduced high angle ammunition state. At 1045 hours FIJI, 30%, GLOUCESTER, 18% and by 1400 hours these percentages were further reduced)

 

At 1413 hours King again ordered Rawlings to provide Force C with close cover, adding that Force C had practically no high angle ammunition left. Rawlings signalled King with concerns for FIJI and GLOUCESTER and informing him of their HA ammunition state. King then signalled Captain Rowley, commander of the GLOUCESTER, instructing GLOUCESTER and FIJI to withdraw at his discretion.
At 1530 hours GLOUCESTER and FIJI were sighted by the Fleet, under continuous air attack from Ju 87’s and steaming at full speed to regain the safety of the Fleet. But with no HA ammunition left the inevitable happened and GLOUCESTER was hit and disabled. FIJI stood by but could do little to help as she too was out of HA ammunition.
At 1555 hours after King had consulted with Rawlings over whether the Fleet should assist GLOUCESTER, he ordered FIJI to sink GLOUCESTER and the Fleet withdrew to the south west. At 1900 hours the FIJI, after having survived some 20 bombing attacks in four hours, was hit by a bomb from a Me 109 that scored a hit on the port side amidships. The ship took up a heavy list, but was able to steam at reduced speed until 1930 hours, when a Ju 88 dropped three bombs which sank her.
At 1645 hours VALIANT was hit and damaged by two bombs that landed abreast X-turret and one near miss. These caused some structural damage and flooding of a bulge compartment. The attack was made by high level bombers and probably carried out by Ju 88’s.
At 1655 hours the CinC Mediterranean Fleet signalled the Fleet, 'Stick it out. Keep in V/S touch. Must not let down the Army in Crete. It is essential no seaborne enemy force lands on Crete'.

At 2230 hours CS7, Rawlings, sent a most immediate signal to the CinC Mediterranean Fleet reporting the loss of GLOUCESTER and FIJI and stating that the AA ammunition situation in all vessels was very low, the battleships had run out of pom pom ammunition.

 

(The 22/5/41 was a dreadful day for the Royal Navy, two cruisers and one destroyer were sunk and two battleships, two cruisers and a number of destroyers damaged. In return the navy had sunk a few caiques in which had been lost 320 German troops)

 

23rd - At 0408 hours the CinC Mediterranean Fleet ordered all warships to withdraw to Alexandria.
24th - In the early hours all Forces arrived back at Alexandria.
VALIANT now had to await her turn for the repair to her bomb damage.

https://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono-01BB-Valiant.htm

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Here you go. Posted without comment

I'm not being disrespectful. I don't know how he saved my mum when she was hiding from bombs under the Kitchen table in Nottingham and he was watching German Air force and Paratroopers overrun Crete while fighting off Caiquies full of Italians.

HMS Valiant's role in the battle of Crete

18th - At 2000 hours Force A 1, comprising the battleships WARSPITE (Flag of CS7, Rear Admiral Rawlings) and VALIANT, light cruiser AJAX and destroyers KIMBERLEY, JANUS, ISIS, HEREWARD, DECOY, HERO, GRIFFIN and HMAS NAPIER departed Alexandria to relieve Force A off Crete.

 

19th - Force A 1 arrived off south west Crete and Force A and B were released to return to Alexandria to refuel.
Destroyers HOTSPUR and IMPERIAL detached from Force A and joined Force A1.

 

(The objective of Force A 1 to prevent the intervention of the Italian Fleet in the invasion of Crete. All other Forces were tasked with preventing German troop from reaching Crete by sea).

 

20th - At 0530 hours Force A 1 was 100 miles west of Crete covering the light forces working inshore.
At 0800 hours the German airborne attack on Crete began. From their position the ships of Force A 1 could see the Ju 52 transports and the DFS 230A gliders carrying the German first wave of assault forces to attack 
Maleme airfield.
At 2200 hours IMPERIAL and KIMBERLEY detached to join Force D.

 

21st - At 0530 hours Force A 1 was in approximate position 35-42N, 22-12E, 60 miles west of the Antikythira Strait steaming east to RV with Force D.
At 0800 west of the Kithera Strait Force D, comprising light cruisers DIDO, AJAX, ORION and destroyers ISIS, IMPERIAL, JANUS and KIMBERLEY joined Force A 1.
In the forenoon AJAX was damaged by a near miss.
During the day Force A 1 remained to the south west of Kithera prepared to prevent any attempt by the Italian Fleet to support the attack on Crete.
At 1800 hours Force D comprising DIDO, AJAX, ORION, HASTY, HEREWARD, JANUS and KIMBERLEY detached from Force A 1 to attack enemy troop convoys.
At 2000 hours Force B comprising GLOUCESTER, FIJI, GREYHOUND and GRIFFIN detached to patrol off Cape Matapan.
Throughout the day Force A 1 was under heavy air attack.

 

22nd - At 0530 hours Force A 1 was in approximate position 35-24N, 22-45E, 45 miles south west of the Kythira channel steaming north west.
At 0700 hours west of the Antikythira Channel, Force D, comprising DIDO, AJAX, ORION, HASTY, HEREWARD, JANUS and KIMBERLEY rejoined Force A 1.
At 0830 hours, south west of Kythira, Force B, comprising GLOUCESTER, FIJI, GREYHOUND and GRIFFIN joined Force A 1, after having been under continuous air attack since 0630 hours.

 

(During the 20th and 21st the Luftwaffe forces were fully occupied supporting the German paratroops on Crete, so no attacks were made on British ships. However the Luftwaffe was fully aware of the location of all British naval forces. On the 22nd the Luftwaffe was ready to throw all its weight against the British ships. On the morning of the 22nd Forces A1, B and C were within 120 to 150 miles of the airfields of the Luftwaffe VIII Fliegerkorps who had up to 228 level bombers, Ju 88, He 111 & Do 17, 205 Ju 87 dive bombers Ju 87 and 230 fighter bombers Me 109 & Me 110, available to attack the British ships. The Luftwaffe took full advantage of their complete air superiority and the closeness of the British ships to their bases. At 0530 hours the first Ju 87’s took off and headed south east for the British ships)

 

Forces A1, B and D now patrolled 20 to 30 miles west of the Kithera Channel as Rear Admiral Rawlings stated in his report 'serving a useful purpose by attracting enemy aircraft'.
By 0945 hours all the British naval forces were under sustained attack from 650 German aircraft.
At 1045 hours Force A 1 was in approximate position 36N, 23E when on the CinC’s orders Force D was detached to return to Alexandria. Also at this time an audit of remaining high angle ammunition revealed the VALIANT was best placed with 80% remaining.

At 1225 hours Admiral Rawlings received a message from CS15, Rear Admiral King, and CinC Force C, stating that the NAIAD had been badly damaged and he was in need of support. On receipt of the report Rawlings decided to go to the assistance of King and course was set westward at 23 knots into the Aegean.
At 1320 hours the destroyer GREYHOUND was detached to 
sink a large caique spotted between the islands of Pori and Antikythira. 
At 1325 hours Force C joined Forces A 1 and B and course was set westwards. Rear Admiral King, as senior officer, now took command of the Fleet. However Force C continued to operate remote from Rawlings.
At 1332 hours just as the combined force was entering the Kithera Channel, WARSPITE was attacked by three Me 109 fighter bombers, each armed with a 250kg semi-armour piercing bomb. She was hit by one bomb which caused extensive damage,  reducing her speed to 18 knots. After putting out the fires and some temporary repairs WARSPITE stayed with the Fleet.
At 1351 hours, in sight of the Fleet, the GREYHOUND having sunk the caique was returning to the Fleet when she was attacked by eight Ju 87’s, she was hit by three bombs in succession and sank stern first at 1406 hours in position 36N, 23-10E.
At 1355 hours t
he destroyers KANDAHAR and KINGSTON were detached to go to GREYHOUND’s aid, but ended up picking up survivors whilst coming under heavy air attack themselves.
At 1358 hours King called upon Rawlings to go to GREYHOUND’s aid.
At 1400 hours King countermanded the order and ordered Rawlings to provide close support for Force C.
At 1402 hours, King ordered the light cruiser FIJI to provide the destroyers with anti aircraft defence, and five minutes later King ordered GLOUCESTER to also assist the destroyers.

 

(In ordering the cruisers to assist the destroyers, Rear Admiral King, made a huge blunder as he was not aware of their much reduced high angle ammunition state. At 1045 hours FIJI, 30%, GLOUCESTER, 18% and by 1400 hours these percentages were further reduced)

 

At 1413 hours King again ordered Rawlings to provide Force C with close cover, adding that Force C had practically no high angle ammunition left. Rawlings signalled King with concerns for FIJI and GLOUCESTER and informing him of their HA ammunition state. King then signalled Captain Rowley, commander of the GLOUCESTER, instructing GLOUCESTER and FIJI to withdraw at his discretion.
At 1530 hours GLOUCESTER and FIJI were sighted by the Fleet, under continuous air attack from Ju 87’s and steaming at full speed to regain the safety of the Fleet. But with no HA ammunition left the inevitable happened and GLOUCESTER was hit and disabled. FIJI stood by but could do little to help as she too was out of HA ammunition.
At 1555 hours after King had consulted with Rawlings over whether the Fleet should assist GLOUCESTER, he ordered FIJI to sink GLOUCESTER and the Fleet withdrew to the south west. At 1900 hours the FIJI, after having survived some 20 bombing attacks in four hours, was hit by a bomb from a Me 109 that scored a hit on the port side amidships. The ship took up a heavy list, but was able to steam at reduced speed until 1930 hours, when a Ju 88 dropped three bombs which sank her.
At 1645 hours VALIANT was hit and damaged by two bombs that landed abreast X-turret and one near miss. These caused some structural damage and flooding of a bulge compartment. The attack was made by high level bombers and probably carried out by Ju 88’s.
At 1655 hours the CinC Mediterranean Fleet signalled the Fleet, 'Stick it out. Keep in V/S touch. Must not let down the Army in Crete. It is essential no seaborne enemy force lands on Crete'.

At 2230 hours CS7, Rawlings, sent a most immediate signal to the CinC Mediterranean Fleet reporting the loss of GLOUCESTER and FIJI and stating that the AA ammunition situation in all vessels was very low, the battleships had run out of pom pom ammunition.

 

(The 22/5/41 was a dreadful day for the Royal Navy, two cruisers and one destroyer were sunk and two battleships, two cruisers and a number of destroyers damaged. In return the navy had sunk a few caiques in which had been lost 320 German troops)

 

23rd - At 0408 hours the CinC Mediterranean Fleet ordered all warships to withdraw to Alexandria.
24th - In the early hours all Forces arrived back at Alexandria.
VALIANT now had to await her turn for the repair to her bomb damage.

https://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono-01BB-Valiant.htm

My Great Uncle also served on HMS Valiant whilst my mum was hiding under a table in North London. If some cunt had been as disrespectful to my Great Uncle when he died I would have hoped Nottingham had taken a few more bombs destined for London.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

My Great Uncle also served on HMS Valiant whilst my mum was hiding under a table in North London. If some cunt had been as disrespectful to my Great Uncle when he died I would have hoped Nottingham had taken a few more bombs destined for London.

Your great Uncle isn't being given a State funeral is he?

Your great uncle fought, My Uncle fought and died, Philip fought.

It's laudable.

I simply want to know what exactly Prince Philip did that was so extraordinary that he gets the whole country to "hurt and Mourn" his passing after an easy, grand and pretty jolly life for most of his 99 years.

Is he a symbol for all those that served?

If not, for what else is he so special ?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Your great Uncle isn't being given a State funeral is he?

Wrong again, you really need to get out of your head and look around you more

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, olaf hart said:

Wrong again, you really need to get out of your head and look around you more

 

you know exactly what i mean.

The Royal family are nothing but "Influencers" without the  FB page.

It's sort of pathetic that people have been conned into the fascination of leaches. 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

you know exactly what i mean.

The Royal family are nothing but "Influencers" without the  FB page.

It's sort of pathetic that people have been conned into the fascination of leaches. 

 

They are a huge part of our history. I find it pathetic that some people can’t see beyond the sparkly palaces and see what they bring to the country in terms of tourism, etc. Britain would likely be a back water in history if not for the Royal family. I am proud to be British and swing proud to have our royals is part of that. 
I also have German, French and Italian heritage and am proud to be European.

RIP HRH

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Grabbler said:

Ya know, for a "fuckwit" who so regularly posts about your "service" in Korea and elsewhere in the fuckin' peacetime army of post-WWII US world domination with their "pristine reputation"(see Central America/Middle East/SE Asia) maybe you oughta take a long hard look at the career during actual wartime of a bloke who was part of the "Greatest Generation" who took up arms against the exact fuckers who overran the country you now call home...I'm no fan of "The Royals" but Godamnit man, do a little research...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prince-philip-navy-world-war-b1829148.html

I have done years of research on the subject.  What's your point?

Here's a little secret about WW II.  It it weren't for the Soviets the war would have been far worse and lasted much longer.  

The 'contribution' of the British to the war effort was a mixed bag. Occasional victories and a lot of fuck ups.  And Montgomery was an ass.

Tell me Grabs, were you ever in the military?  Did my service not count because I was never in combat?  I am not worthy because I never got shot at?  Would it be better if I told you I knew and worked with people that had been shot at?  Would you feel better if I told you I saved a few lives, it just wasn't on a battlefield.  My father was a soldier in WW II, but he was in Africa and Italy with the 5th Army HQ and he never fired a weapon at the enemy or got shot at.  Does that make his service less worthy as well.

You can disagree with me all you like but I don't like when you denigrate my 20 years (half soldier/half civilian) of service to yours and my country, as a soldier and civilian in 3 foreign countries and during 4 different wars.  I went where I was told and I did what I was told.  And I did it well.  I have a bunch of pretty ribbons to prove it, it's just that none of them are from combat.  In spite of that I have seen more blood and broken bodies than many soldiers who were in a combat zone.  I guess that isn't good enough.  Please keep your criticism of me about the subject at hand, especially if you were never in the military.

And since you brought it up, I am tired of the phrase "The Greatest Generation."  Yes, they did well, my father, and 3 of my uncles were some of them.  But they were great by circumstance, as much as by their actions.  Had WW II occurred at any other time, or WW III, I truly believe the American people would have behaved in a similar fashion.  Do you want to know who were just as great?  The men that served and particularly that were drafted during the Vietnam War.  They went to a fucked up war against their will and they did their jobs and came back to a country that often hated them for what they did.  They performed very well overall and there weren't any tickertape parades and accolades, just silence at best and scorn and spitting.  The millions of men and women that served during the Cold War, including myself, were stationed on the frontier dividing free people from those oppressed.  It wasn't glamorous, it wasn't exciting very often, it was fun sometimes and it was necessary.  And those folks kept the tenuous peace, were prepared for a possibly nuclear war, and in the end prevailed and helped to end the communist oppression of a good part of Europe.  And lets not forget the men of the forgotten war, Korea.  Again they fought and died and in turn were mostly forgotten until recent years.  

I think throughout the years the men and women that have served in the armed forces in the US are all great.   For more than 200 years they have done their job and done it well.  When you are in the military you don't control very much.  I am sorry I never went into combat and won lots of nice medals and killed lots of the enemy.  If I was in the right place at the right time I would have done what I was told.  And so would every other soldier I served with.  It wasn't until many years after WW II one journalist coined that phrase, and it's been repeated ever since.  To single out one group, in one war, and call them the greatest generation sounds nice but it isn't anything that any other generation wouldn't have done.  I am not denigrating them.  I am tired of the the small percent of Americans that have joined the military over the years, doing their jobs and doing them well, being sluffed off because they weren't 'lucky' enough to have been in a war.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

I don't like when you denigrate my 20 years (half soldier/half civilian) of service to yours and my country

Yet you denigrate a man that spent his whole life in service to his country.

Before you start I know you're 6'5". None of need to be told again.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

@mad Where are you brother, we need to sing a hearty farewell to the jolly old duke.

 

For he was a useless old fellow, For he was a useless old fellow,

For he was a useless old fellow, Which nobody can deny!

And we are not sad that died, And we are not sad that he died

For he was a useless old fellow, For he was a useless old fellow,

For he was a useless old fellow, And we are not sad that he died!

Just hunting for a fuck to give, I’ll get back to you if I find one. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

 

I hope things improve for you, because you're clearly in a bad place. 

Thanks for your concern, but actually Poland is a very nice place. 

Globally speaking, I am tired of the global pandemic of stupidity and insecurity that has swept the world, that has caused people so hollow and empty in their souls that they need to feel better about themselves by worshipping idiots.  A world where many people are convinced that the path to happiness is capitalism and materialism.  People that think if they can just buy one more thing it will fill that void in their empty hearts and finally achieve that happiness they are so desperate for.  But it's never enough, that first billion didn't fill the hole, so on to the next billion, and the next. And if somehow they weren't lucky enough, and didn't work hard enough to accumulate enough money, and enough toys, then they can live vicariously through those who did.  No matter that a large amount of those who have achieved great wealth have done it by lying, cheating, stealing and other immoral and amoral acts, either overtly or covertly, consciously or subconsciously.  And then those who have achieved material success step on the vast amount of people who helped them get there.  Those are the folks that are in a very bad place and the world is paying a terrible price for it.  

It's a pity that many people in the world don't realize that true happiness comes from within.  That true happiness can only come when you know yourself, accept who you are and are comfortable with that.  Then there is no need to prove anything to anybody.  Only when you honestly know and accept yourself, warts and all, can you be anything to anyone else.  Having a bunch of shit doesn't prove anything except that there is a gaping void inside of that person.  Often, less is truly more.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, 00seven said:

Yet you denigrate a man that spent his whole life in service to his country.

Before you start I know you're 6'5". None of need to be told again.

I will cheerfully denigrate a man whose service to his country mostly involved meaningless bull shit and marrying into a family that acquired a vast fortune by virtue of birth right and by raping the world.  

Selfless service is the best kind of service.  I will give the departed Phil credit, it's hard to get out of bed in the morning when your wearing silk pajamas.  But by golly he kept a stiff upper lip and managed to do it for queen and country.  Well done Phil, well done indeed.  I'll bet one of those fancy medals on his fancy uniform was for doing just that.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching the little shit fight above is hilarious, and watch how this gets spun by the media and government and turned into yet more propaganda.  

The Royal family are pointless and powerless puppets that have long outlived their use.  The sooner they get rid of the whole corrupt, useless fucking lot of them, the better.
A family that shields a sexual predator, and prevents an investigation into child sex trafficking......fucking think about that before you start wringing your hands in faux respect and grief.......bunch of fucking kiss arses.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Gissie said:

And there it is, the ego and push back because someone doesn't bow down before the know all bully. 

I will leave your to your bitterness and certainty of your amazingness. Openness of the mind is something you left behind in your distant youth, assuming you ever had any.

 

My goodness, that's the best you can do?  

You are right, I am certain of my amazingness.  If you aren't that's fine, I'm not for everybody, nor do I need to be.  Don't be envious, just work on your own amazingness.  It's never to late to shed those insecurities and feelings of worthlessness.   

And you are sadly mistaken if you think I  am not open minded.  I didn't get to be so amazing by not listening to and learning from the many truly amazing people I have met in my life and I am still listening and learning in my dotage.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Under the Parliamentary system, the Crown has an active role as head of state. It’s not public, but the Queen and the governors in Commonwealth countries, as her delegates, play a very active role in keeping elected governments honest, accountable and civilised.

So a lot of people owe a lot of gratitude to the Queen, and also trust that she remains focussed and connected to the real world.

Philip helped keep her on course for nearly seventy years, any guy who can keep a woman level headed for that long deserves a medal. Philip has my respect just for that job.

Think of all the elected presidents we have avoided, all the bullshit politics, all the economic and social progress made in the last seventy years under a system of government that is light years ahead of the US system, let alone any other system of government on this planet.

Philip shared genes from Queen Victoria, but fate dealt him a lousy hand and he was essentially a self made man.
He was, and remained the only common man in that whole sorry family.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, olaf hart said:

Under the Parliamentary system, the Crown has an active role as head of state. It’s not public, but the Queen and the governors in Commonwealth countries, as her delegates, play a very active role in keeping elected governments honest, accountable and civilised.

So a lot of people owe a lot of gratitude to the Queen, and also trust that she remains focussed and connected to the real world.

Philip helped keep her on course for nearly seventy years, any guy who can keep a woman level headed for that long deserves a medal. Philip has my respect just for that job.

Think of all the elected presidents we have avoided, all the bullshit politics, all the economic and social progress made in the last seventy years under a system of government that is light years ahead of the US system, let alone any other system of government on this planet.

Philip shared genes from Queen Victoria, but fate dealt him a lousy hand and he was essentially a self made man.
He was, and remained the only common man in that whole sorry family.

You haven’t got a fucking clue, she happily signed of on the most corrupt and incompetent government of the UK in history.

A gutless, useless, puppet of a figurehead!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

Thanks for your concern, but actually Poland is a very nice place. 

Globally speaking, I am tired of the global pandemic of stupidity and insecurity that has swept the world, that has caused people so hollow and empty in their souls that they need to feel better about themselves by worshipping idiots.  A world where many people are convinced that the path to happiness is capitalism and materialism.  People that think if they can just buy one more thing it will fill that void in their empty hearts and finally achieve that happiness they are so desperate for.  But it's never enough, that first billion didn't fill the hole, so on to the next billion, and the next. And if somehow they weren't lucky enough, and didn't work hard enough to accumulate enough money, and enough toys, then they can live vicariously through those who did.  No matter that a large amount of those who have achieved great wealth have done it by lying, cheating, stealing and other immoral and amoral acts, either overtly or covertly, consciously or subconsciously.  And then those who have achieved material success step on the vast amount of people who helped them get there.  Those are the folks that are in a very bad place and the world is paying a terrible price for it.  

It's a pity that many people in the world don't realize that true happiness comes from within.  That true happiness can only come when you know yourself, accept who you are and are comfortable with that.  Then there is no need to prove anything to anybody.  Only when you honestly know and accept yourself, warts and all, can you be anything to anyone else.  Having a bunch of shit doesn't prove anything except that there is a gaping void inside of that person.  Often, less is truly more.

Snowflake

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mad said:

You haven’t got a fucking clue, she happily signed of on the most corrupt and incompetent government of the UK in history.

A gutless, useless, puppet of a figurehead!

Which corrupt and incompetent government was that?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

Which corrupt and incompetent government was that?

The current UK government, which she was touted as being head of.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, NaptimeAgain said:

Considering he had no actual power or authority over the historical or recent actions of the country, I wouldn't saddle him with all their sins any more than any [Aussie, American, Belgian, Italian, Dutch, French, German etc.] for the historical mistreatment of native peoples, other countries, minorities, scorned ex wives, and on and on.  He had a ceremonial role to play in a really big amusement park fantasy and he wasn't a total f'up at it. 

 

Of course you can't blame the children for the sins of their fathers.  However by not renouncing the past, and even worse, continuing to propagate and glorify it, than that person becomes complicit in the crime.  At the end of WW II, which drastically changed the old world order and ushered in a new era, queen Liz could have said that the already vastly diminished empire was an evil remnant of a terrible past and it was time to move on.  She could have dismantled the monarchy and by doing so, although it wouldn't erase the terrible damage it had done, at least it would have shown the world that it was time to try something better, to do more than just pay lip service to the ideals of freedom, democracy, and equality.  But she didn't, and by preserving the awful history, regalia and heritage, and continuing to glorify and trying to make it relevant in a modern world, she continued to rub salt in the wound.  It isn't up to the British, the Americans, the Russians, the Chinese, or anybody in the world to decide how everyone else should live.  

Of all of the countries and sins you mentioned above, the British Empire caused far more damage and caused far more trouble than all of the others combined.  The root of almost all of the current conflicts in today's world can be traced directly back to the incredibly arrogant and rapacious actions of the British Empire.  That's not the kind of legacy that should be continuously glorified by a bunch of made up bullshit.

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

Under the Parliamentary system, the Crown has an active role as head of state. It’s not public, but the Queen and the governors in Commonwealth countries, as her delegates, play a very active role in keeping elected governments honest, accountable and civilised.

So a lot of people owe a lot of gratitude to the Queen, and also trust that she remains focussed and connected to the real world.

Philip helped keep her on course for nearly seventy years, any guy who can keep a woman level headed for that long deserves a medal. Philip has my respect just for that job.

Think of all the elected presidents we have avoided, all the bullshit politics, all the economic and social progress made in the last seventy years under a system of government that is light years ahead of the US system, let alone any other system of government on this planet.

Philip shared genes from Queen Victoria, but fate dealt him a lousy hand and he was essentially a self made man.
He was, and remained the only common man in that whole sorry family.

No offense Olaf, but that is one of the most ludicrous defenses of the indefensible that I have ever heard.  

England and it's royal family are not unlike Putin in Russia today in many ways.  Both are former world powers that committed many terrible acts that have faded into well deserved obscurity.  Both of them are trying desperately, albeit by very different means, to stay relevant in a world that is passing them by and generally ignoring them whenever possible.  On their current course neither one has much to offer the world except creating more problems and adding to the instability.  And we should be happy about that?

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

So you have a Brexit problem?

The whole country has a Brexit problem, and she fucking signed off on it.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, mad said:

Watching the little shit fight above is hilarious, and watch how this gets spun by the media and government and turned into yet more propaganda.  

The Royal family are pointless and powerless puppets that have long outlived their use.  The sooner they get rid of the whole corrupt, useless fucking lot of them, the better.
A family that shields a sexual predator, and prevents an investigation into child sex trafficking......fucking think about that before you start wringing your hands in faux respect and grief.......bunch of fucking kiss arses.

And those are their good qualities!   

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

So you have a Brexit problem?

If I were the head of the EU, I would tell the Brits to fuck off.  They want out of the EU, great.  No preferential treatment, no separate trade deals, and shut them out completely from Europe like they desire.  Let them choke of their fucking shitty cars, coal and cod fish.  

I think Europe can do very well without that annoying little island full of loud, arrogant has beens.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Chimp too said:

They are a huge part of our history. I find it pathetic that some people can’t see beyond the sparkly palaces and see what they bring to the country in terms of tourism, etc. Britain would likely be a back water in history if not for the Royal family. I am proud to be British and swing proud to have our royals is part of that. 
I also have German, French and Italian heritage and am proud to be European.

RIP HRH

You are really Andrew aren't you.  Man up and come clean you little pervert.

Sucks to be you dude.

Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

No offense Olaf, but that is one of the most ludicrous defenses of the indefensible that I have ever heard.  

England and it's royal family are not unlike Putin in Russia today in many ways.  Both are former world powers that committed many terrible acts that have faded into well deserved obscurity.  Both of them are trying desperately, albeit by very different means, to stay relevant in a world that is passing them by and generally ignoring them whenever possible.  On their current course neither one has much to offer the world except creating more problems and adding to the instability.  And we should be happy about that?

I am talking about the last seventy years, not the time before that. While Elizabeth has been Queen things have been stable.

On the other hand if Charles becomes King then Australia will become a republic overnight, and we have to deal with the whole messy issue of election vs appointment, politicians and party politics, and a host of other hassles we haven’t had because we have had a reasonably sound head of state.

My family left Ireland in the 1870’s because of religious persecution, and I am also a citizen of the Republic of Ireland, I hold no respect for the actions of the British Empire, but I remain grateful for the moderating influence of the Queen and by extension Philip during my lifetime.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

About as many days as Trump spent golfing on his own private courses..... On the public dime.

What does Trump have to do with Prince Philip?  We all hoped Trump would die also.   What a stupid comparison. Thank you for your service.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mad said:

Watching the little shit fight above is hilarious, and watch how this gets spun by the media and government and turned into yet more propaganda.  

The Royal family are pointless and powerless puppets that have long outlived their use.  The sooner they get rid of the whole corrupt, useless fucking lot of them, the better.
A family that shields a sexual predator, and prevents an investigation into child sex trafficking......fucking think about that before you start wringing your hands in faux respect and grief.......bunch of fucking kiss arses.

One day we'll compare notes on "where were you at the royal funerals and weddings?" :D

I wish Pete and Dud were still here. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

I am talking about the last seventy years, not the time before that. While Elizabeth has been Queen things have been stable.

On the other hand if Charles becomes King then Australia will become a republic overnight, and we have to deal with the whole messy issue of election vs appointment, politicians and party politics, and a host of other hassles we haven’t had because we have had a reasonably sound head of state.

My family left Ireland in the 1870’s because of religious persecution, and I am also a citizen of the Republic of Ireland, I hold no respect for the actions of the British Empire, but I remain grateful for the moderating influence of the Queen and by extension Philip during my lifetime.

I understand your reasoning to a point.

My biggest issue is that you can't separate the modern Great Britain from the past.  By the continuity of the hereditary monarchy, it's all connected and inseparable, the good (very little and too late) and the bad (the vast majority of it).  

As I think I have made clear here, in my opinion, the continuing glorification of an anachronistic and awful idea (a hereditary monarchy) and all of the evil it has perpetrated on the world over the centuries, is implied approval of all of the horrible damage done.  I don't think that's right.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ed Lada said:

It isn't up to the British, the Americans, the Russians, the Chinese, or anybody in the world to decide how everyone else should live. 

Or you

Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

If I were the head of the EU, I would tell the Brits to fuck off.  They want out of the EU, great.  No preferential treatment, no separate trade deals, and shut them out completely from Europe like they desire.  Let them choke of their fucking shitty cars, coal and cod fish.  

I think Europe can do very well without that annoying little island full of loud, arrogant has beens.  

And they even appropriated a fish. Dover Sole. Cunts.    

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

One day we'll compare notes on "where were you at the royal funerals and weddings?" :D

I wish Pete and Dud were still here. 

Its all so inconsequential to me that I really don't remember most of them, the only one that sticks in my mind was Diana.  I was in NZ and couldn't believe the bullshit and wall to wall press coverage, the amount of people I upset by telling them I didn't give a fuck was spectacular.

The blanket press coverage and propaganda at the moment is vomit inducing.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Chimp too said:

Or you

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I don't have an army, I'm not the head of any state large or small.  I am only the king of my castle, and that's only when my wife lets me.  

I am an advocate of freedom and personal responsibility.  The British Empire didn't believe in either of those things.  They claimed they were 'civilizing' the world.  What they were actually doing was enslaving the people and exploiting and raping the resources of the lands that they took by threats, coercion and outright force.

My expressing my opinions on this subject are about as impactful as a fart in a hurricane.

Do you see the difference?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, mad said:

Its all so inconsequential to me that I really don't remember most of them, the only one that sticks in my mind was Diana.  I was in NZ and couldn't believe the bullshit and wall to wall press coverage, the amount of people I upset by telling them I didn't give a fuck was spectacular.

The blanket press coverage and propaganda at the moment is vomit inducing.

Exactly

 

 you can't escape it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Chimp too said:

They are a huge part of our history.

No they are people. Some of whom had a disproportionate and often unfortunate effect on the lives of billions.

Some of whom received enormous wealth an privilege in return for absolutely nothing of worth.

Don't confuse history with propaganda.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 To a Scottish driving instructor: "How do you keep the natives off the booze long enough to pass the test?"

 "If a cricketer suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, are you going to ban cricket bats?"

 When responding to a female Sea Cadet who told him she worked in a nightclub: "Is it a strip club?"

"If you stay here much longer, you will go home with slitty eyes." To 21-year-old British student Simon Kerby during a visit to China in 1986.

"It looks as though it was put in by an Indian." The Prince's verdict of a fuse box during a tour of a Scottish factory in August 1999. 

People usually say that after a fire it is water damage that is the worst. We are still drying out Windsor Castle." To survivors of the Lockerbie Pan-Am disaster in 1993.

. "A few years ago, everybody was saying we must have more leisure, everyone's working too much. Now that everybody's got more leisure time they are complaining they are unemployed. People don't seem to make up their minds what they want." A man of the people shares insight into the recession that gripped Britain in 1981.

"You ARE a woman, aren't you?" To a woman in Kenya in 1984, after accepting a gift.

"Do you know they have eating dogs for the anorexic now?" To a wheelchair-bound Susan Edwards, and her guide dog Natalie in 2002.

"The problem with London is the tourists. They cause the congestion. If we could just stop the tourism, we could stop the congestion." At the opening of City Hall in 2002.

"And what exotic part of the world do you come from?" Asked in 1999 of Tory politician Lord Taylor of Warwick, whose parents are Jamaican. He replied: "Birmingham."

"It doesn't look like much work goes on at this University." Overheard at Bristol University's engineering facility. It had been closed so that he and the Queen could officially open it in 2005.

"Do you still throw spears at each other?" Prince Philip shocks Aboriginal leader William Brin at the Aboriginal Cultural
Park in Queensland, 2002.

 "So who's on drugs here?... HE looks as if he's on drugs." To a 14-year-old member of a Bangladeshi youth club in 2002.

"You could do with losing a little bit of weight." To hopeful astronaut, 13-year-old Andrew Adams.

Any bloody fool can lay a wreath at the thingamy." Discussing his role in an interview with Jeremy Paxman.

People think there's a rigid class system here, but dukes have even been known to marry chorus girls. Some have even married Americans." In 2000.

I don't think a prostitute is more moral than a wife, but they are doing the same thing."

We go into the red next year... I shall probably have to give up polo." Comment on US television in 1969 about the Royal Family's finances.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I don't have an army, I'm not the head of any state large or small.  I am only the king of my castle, and that's only when my wife lets me.  

I am an advocate of freedom and personal responsibility.  The British Empire didn't believe in either of those things.  They claimed they were 'civilizing' the world.  What they were actually doing was enslaving the people and exploiting and raping the resources of the lands that they took by threats, coercion and outright force.

My expressing my opinions on this subject are about as impactful as a fart in a hurricane.

Do you see the difference?

Spot a civilisation in history that hasn’t done all this. We all live on land that belonged to someone else before, who was forcefully removed. Doesn’t mean we should ignore, forget or denounce all of human history.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Grabbler said:

Sometimes it's best to keep your big yap shut if you've got no idea what you're talking about...his family escaped Greece in the 20's way before "Allied forces" would've been around the peninsula...he attended the Royal Naval College which is the equivalent of a US service academy, so automatically came out with a Midshipman rank which he held when mentioned in dispatches for distinction in action in WWII...I am nothing near an ardent royalist, but believe strongly in giving credit where it's due and as far as I'm concerned, Philip paid his dues...

And he managed to avoid any service in the North Atlantic. Do they give chest medals for that?  

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

No they are people. Some of whom had a disproportionate and often unfortunate effect on the lives of billions.

Some of whom received enormous wealth an privilege in return for absolutely nothing of worth.

Don't confuse history with propaganda.

 

As you say yourself “effect on the lives of billions”. A lot negative, but also a lot positive.

But influence for sure.

we are all entitled to our view.

 I feel we should respect a man who went to war for his country and served his Queen without complaint  to his dying day. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

Spot a civilisation in history that hasn’t done all this. We all live on land that belonged to someone else before, who was forcefully removed. Doesn’t mean we should ignore, forget or denounce all of human history.

Maybe your reading of history is deficient.  You must have gone to one of those public schools where caning was more important than reading history.

Nobody, but nobody, ever in the entire history of the world has committed more heinous acts and harm than the British.  To paraphrase that pompous, arrogant twat Winston Churchill, 'Never before was so much scorn owed to so few who have done so much harm, for so long, to so many.'

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

As you say yourself “effect on the lives of billions”. A lot negative, but also a lot positive.

But influence for sure.

we are all entitled to our view.

 I feel we should respect a man who went to war for his country and served his Queen without complaint  to his dying day. 

Stop it Andy, you're drooling all over yourself and it isn't becoming of a royal.  Not at all.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

 

 I feel we should respect a man who went to war for his country and served his Queen without complaint  to his dying day. 

Are we  talking about Prince Phillip or my uncle Ernest?

Happy to accord equal respect.

But somehow i think, if they can't stop the country for a Pandemic, they're not going to stop for three minutes silence for my uncle Ernie.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So now that the thread has leveraged the death of a ceremonial chap into a diatribe on world affairs, the sins of past Prime Ministers, and the sordid behavior of other assorted imperialists...a question.

If the current Windsor lineage were to expire due to lack of an heir in the immediate family, would the Brits go searching Europe for a royal import, or would they say the monarchy came to its natural end and it was a fitting time to stop?

Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

 To a Scottish driving instructor: "How do you keep the natives off the booze long enough to pass the test?"

 "If a cricketer suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, are you going to ban cricket bats?"

 When responding to a female Sea Cadet who told him she worked in a nightclub: "Is it a strip club?"

"If you stay here much longer, you will go home with slitty eyes." To 21-year-old British student Simon Kerby during a visit to China in 1986.

"It looks as though it was put in by an Indian." The Prince's verdict of a fuse box during a tour of a Scottish factory in August 1999. 

People usually say that after a fire it is water damage that is the worst. We are still drying out Windsor Castle." To survivors of the Lockerbie Pan-Am disaster in 1993.

. "A few years ago, everybody was saying we must have more leisure, everyone's working too much. Now that everybody's got more leisure time they are complaining they are unemployed. People don't seem to make up their minds what they want." A man of the people shares insight into the recession that gripped Britain in 1981.

"You ARE a woman, aren't you?" To a woman in Kenya in 1984, after accepting a gift.

"Do you know they have eating dogs for the anorexic now?" To a wheelchair-bound Susan Edwards, and her guide dog Natalie in 2002.

"The problem with London is the tourists. They cause the congestion. If we could just stop the tourism, we could stop the congestion." At the opening of City Hall in 2002.

"And what exotic part of the world do you come from?" Asked in 1999 of Tory politician Lord Taylor of Warwick, whose parents are Jamaican. He replied: "Birmingham."

"It doesn't look like much work goes on at this University." Overheard at Bristol University's engineering facility. It had been closed so that he and the Queen could officially open it in 2005.

"Do you still throw spears at each other?" Prince Philip shocks Aboriginal leader William Brin at the Aboriginal Cultural
Park in Queensland, 2002.

 "So who's on drugs here?... HE looks as if he's on drugs." To a 14-year-old member of a Bangladeshi youth club in 2002.

"You could do with losing a little bit of weight." To hopeful astronaut, 13-year-old Andrew Adams.

Any bloody fool can lay a wreath at the thingamy." Discussing his role in an interview with Jeremy Paxman.

People think there's a rigid class system here, but dukes have even been known to marry chorus girls. Some have even married Americans." In 2000.

I don't think a prostitute is more moral than a wife, but they are doing the same thing."

We go into the red next year... I shall probably have to give up polo." Comment on US television in 1969 about the Royal Family's finances.

 

My gawd, didn't realize this guy was actually Joe Biden's crazy foster uncle. But now it all makes sense.......:lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, NaptimeAgain said:

So now that the thread has leveraged the death of a ceremonial chap into a diatribe on world affairs, the sins of past Prime Ministers, and the sordid behavior of other assorted imperialists...a question.

If the current Windsor lineage were to expire due to lack of an heir in the immediate family, would the Brits go searching Europe for a royal import, or would they say the monarchy came to its natural end and it was a fitting time to stop?

The current government would probably auction the whole lot off to a Russian oligarch.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

My gawd, didn't realize this guy was actually Joe Biden's crazy foster uncle. But now it all makes sense.......:lol:

Oh, yeah.  And there is lots more.  Funny how his supporters don't mention any of this bit.  Just his 'service'  like having a dance with
someone's mum in Canada, and  'keeping the Queen on  a steady course'  whatever the fuck that means. They dont mention his infidelity.  Like she needs the help of a man or she would have failed. So who would you guess is the  'un-named member of the royal family' using the N word on Markle and wondering how dark skinned his great grandchild would be? What a pompous ass.  Of all the recently dead British centenarians worthy of praise this jackass isnt one of them. Much less than Captain Tom Moore.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Chimp too said:

As you say yourself “effect on the lives of billions”. A lot negative, but also a lot positive.

But influence for sure.

we are all entitled to our view.

 I feel we should respect a man who went to war for his country and served his Queen without complaint  to his dying day. 

...and he serviced his Queen presumably without complaint.  

No offense, but I'd rather employ a glory hole at a butcher shop.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

No offense, but I'd rather employ a glory hole at a butcher shop.  

Hear, hear!  Well said old chap.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, mad said:

The blanket press coverage and propaganda at the moment is vomit inducing.

Try living in the Hell-A TV market when a basketball player goes splat in a helicopter or a Hollywood celebrity gets a divorce........certainly all those things are momentarily newsworthy and each of us can have whatever reaction we have but around here those events dominate the media and go on for months.....and months......

Link to post
Share on other sites

The British Empire was largely the result of individuals from Britain increasing their wealth by trade and exploitation of far flung nations. As a result the power of the British parliamentary state was used to protect these interests from the local population and other competing nations. It really had nothing much to do with the Royal Family - they were / are just figureheads. The British Empire is just one example in a line of similar historic structures. Do I feel ill will towards the nation of Italy due to the rule of the Roman Empire? No. Are there things that the British nation should not be proud of? Yes.

I'm no great supporter of the Monarchy, however would I rather have a self serving elected politician as head of state? No.

I'm sure there are endless arguements about the D of E's contribution to the WW2. However there is no denying he was involved which is more than (I suspect) any of us can claim.

Early in WW2 did Britain largely stand alone in trying to put a spanner in Hitler's works? Yes. There were more defeats than victories in those early years but I think we have to take some credit for having a go.  Incidentally, for a period of time the Russians were kept in the war by supplies carried by the Arctic Convoys from Britain. 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, triumph72 said:

The British Empire was largely the result of individuals from Britain increasing their wealth by trade and exploitation of far flung nations. As a result the power of the British parliamentary state was used to protect these interests from the local population and other competing nations. It really had nothing much to do with the Royal Family - they were / are just figureheads. The British Empire is just one example in a line of similar historic structures. Do I feel ill will towards the nation of Italy due to the rule of the Roman Empire? No. Are there things that the British nation should not be proud of? Yes.

I'm no great supporter of the Monarchy, however would I rather have a self serving elected politician as head of state? No.

I'm sure there are endless arguements about the D of E's contribution to the WW2. However there is no denying he was involved which is more than (I suspect) any of us can claim.

Early in WW2 did Britain largely stand alone in trying to put a spanner in Hitler's works? Yes. There were more defeats than victories in those early years but I think we have to take some credit for having a go.  Incidentally, for a period of time the Russians were kept in the war by supplies carried by the Arctic Convoys from Britain. 

 

 

 

She’s not the head of state, she’s a puppet. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, triumph72 said:

I'm sure there are endless arguements about the D of E's contribution to the WW2. However there is no denying he was involved which is more than (I suspect) any of us can claim.

Early in WW2 did Britain largely stand alone in trying to put a spanner in Hitler's works? Yes. There were more defeats than victories in those early years but I think we have to take some credit for having a go.  Incidentally, for a period of time the Russians were kept in the war by supplies carried by the Arctic Convoys from Britain. 

Your first claim is a non sequitur.  Of course none of us were involved in WW II, with a couple of possible exceptions here, the rest of us weren't even born then. Had we been of that time, we would have either enlisted or been drafted and done our duty, like most of the young men did at the time.

In reference to the second claim, lets examine the history.  In the build up to WW II, France and England sat on their hands while Hitler incrementally violated many provisions of the unrealistically punitive Treaty of Versailles at the end of WW I.  While it isn't the main reason, it isn't unfair to say that the treaty did play a big part in Hitler's rise to power and desire to start WW II.  Due to the casualties from WW I, both the French and the Brits had no desire to start another war so soon after 1918, so they dithered, wrung their hands, half heartedly negotiated and failed to call Hitler's bluff because they believed his lies about Germany's rearmament.  They could have easily put an end to Hitler's plans to dominate Europe had they acted in the mid 1930s.  France had a large well equipped Army and and with help from Great Britain, the history would be much different.  The majority of Hitler's General Staff was petrified by Hitler's bravado and belligerent behavior.  Even in 1939-1940, they didn't expect the French and the British forces to fold so quickly.  

In defense of the Brits, they did sign a treaty with Poland to come to the aid of Poland in the event of a Nazi invasion.  However, when the German blitzkrieg struck Poland on 1 September 1939, the only thing they did was wring their hands and declare war on Germany.  And then they did nothing, which became known as the 'Sitzkrieg', or the 'Phony War'.  The only significant military action for the next 8 months was the French invasion of the Saarland in Western Germany.  The French (not the Brits) had hoped to help Poland but after suffering losses, they withdrew after a few days of fighting.  There were a few other half hearted efforts and many grand plans, but the real war didn't resume again until 10 May 1940, when the German Army invaded Belgium and the Low Countries, doing and end run around the vaunted Maginot Line.  Apparently the Nazis understood geography better than the French military planners did.  Of course this operation ended in France rolling over, and the British glorious humiliation on the shores of Dunkirk.  That's one thing the British military was always good at, turning routs into heroic legends.  Gallipoli anyone?  

So then on to the British campaign in Africa where Montgomery refused to attack unless he had a huge numerical superiority. He knew every move that the Nazis were making because they Brits had broken the German codes, thanks in part to Polish partisans recovering an intact Enigma machine and turning it over to the folks in Bletchley Park.  And even then, Rommel still gave Monty a run for his money.  Had it not been for the British naval superiority on the Mediterranean Sea, Rommel probably would have driven Monty out of Africa in a 2nd Dunkirk.  

Then there was the Battle of Britain.  The British pilots did a good job of defending their homeland.  However a large amount of aerial victories were compiled by Polish pilots who were treated with disdain by the British Air Force initially, because you know, Polish people, eh?  The fact that Goering over promised and under delivered, pretty much ensured that a German invasion of the British Isles was never going to happen.  The British Navy was too large for the smaller German navy to counter without air superiority.  

That brings us to the D-Day invasion in June of 1944, where again the British Army didn't cover themselves in Glory.  Due to Montgomery's timidity and aversion to casualties, the British forces were the last to break out of the Normandy beachhead delaying the rest of the Allied advance.  They finally broke out and then Montgomery, still stewing because Eisenhower was appointed the Supreme Allied Commander instead of himself, came up with the brilliant plan to fight north to the Netherlands and seize vital bridges across the Rhine River and finally enter the German homeland.  Except he fucked that up as well and it ended up to be another debacle.  In the meantime, the Soviet forces were chewing up the German military, taking pressure of of the Allied forces in the West, while incurring huge losses themselves.  But Stalin had no qualms about a bloody war of attrition. he was getting materiel in the form of trucks and other equipment from the US and he had manpower to spare.  In the meantime, the British and American forces were slowly fighting their way to Germany.  Hitler in one last gasp on the Western front made an audacious move to capture the port of Antwerp in the hope of stopping the seemingly endless flow of war materiel from the US.  Thus was born the Battle of the Bulge.  

By the time the US forces defeated Hitler's final offensive in the West, the Soviets started their offensive in the East.  With several armies, totaling several million soldiers, Stalin's Red Army headed for Berlin, while the Allies did the same from the East.  Not to denigrate the Allies efforts, but they were facing a far smaller force and had a shorter distance to cover, and while they could have Possibly taken Berlin just ahead of the Soviets, they pulled up short to avoid a confrontation with the Soviets.  Stalin had made it clear that since his forces did most of the bleeding, Berlin was his.   

One other note.  While much was made of the Allied bombing campaign, it wasn't as effective as was claimed.  Under Albert Speer, German defense production actually hit record levels in 1944 in spite of the heavy bombing.  The British Air Force under Arthur 'Bomber' Harris was a vehement advocate of terror bombing of German cities.  Dresden and Hamburg were particularly hard hit by fire bombing raids carried out predominantly by the British.  With typical British arrogance, while the British people were being bombed, although not nearly to the extent that the Germans were, the British thought that the German's would cave in to the terror bombing, while the stoic and brave British citizens could tolerate it.  The deaths of hundreds of thousands of German civilians had little effect on the outcome of the war and Harris should have been tried and convicted for war crimes and punished accordingly.  Fair is fair right? 

This necessarily brief overview of the war should destroy the common myth in the West that the US and British military were single handedly responsible for winning WW II.  A cursory glance at the casualty figures will help dispel the myth.  Total USSR military deaths, ~10 million. Civilian deaths ~7 million.  % of population killed in the war, ~14%.  Total United Kingdom military deaths, 264,000.  Civilian deaths 67,000.  % of population killed in the war 0.94%.  Total German military deaths, ~5 million.  Total German civilian deaths, ~2.5 million.  % percent of population killed in the war, 10%.  Total US military deaths (In the European and Pacific theaters) 407,000.  Total US civilian deaths in the war, 12,000.  % of population killed in the war, 0.32%. 

I think those numbers paint a sufficiently clear picture of who bore the brunt of the battle.  However, as they say the victors write the history and the fragile alliance with Stalin was all but over at the war's end, so there is no way the British and Americans could give any credit to the communists for essentially winning WW II in Europe.  At least one entire generation of Americans grew up learning that the US and The British won the war, and little was mentioned about the Soviets.  The myth persists to this day obviously.

So let's just put to rest Phillip's illustrious war record as well as the British effort in the war.  Of course they had their heroic moments, but their contribution has been completely exaggerated and overblown ever since.

      

Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

So let's just put to rest Phillip's illustrious war record as well as the British effort in the war.  Of course they had their heroic moments, but their contribution has been completely exaggerated and overblown ever since.

      

I don't know Ed............I have trouble trying to parse out who did more. Certainly some nations and individuals contributed/suffered more than others but it was a world war. There were contributions in many ways against the axis powers. Each country contributing as they could. Whats the old expression......"all gave some.......some gave all". So far as an individual service members wartime contribution in the form of how much actual combat one sees, much of that is a matter of luck (you can decide good or bad luck...I have my own opinion on that). My own view is that when one volunteers to be in the military in times like this, especially those whose jobs/tasks will carry them into harms way.....the deed is done. Whether there is some monumental Pork Chop Hill event or Audie Murphy person.........was/is largely a matter of circumstance beyond all our control. He voluntarily served during a world war in a combat role. Thats enough for me. How much combat he did or didn't see seems immaterial.

My view anyway.........for whatever its worth..... 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Al Paca said:

I sure wish there was a “ Limey Cunts” anarchy section.  Then I could put whole thing on ignore.  

 

I count 2 maybe 3 limeys in the thread, and it wasn’t started by one either. 
Nobody’s forcing you to read it, grow a pair and quit bitching. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Point Break said:

I don't know Ed............I have trouble trying to parse out who did more. Certainly some nations and individuals contributed/suffered more than others but it was a world war. There were contributions in many ways against the axis powers. Each country contributing as they could. Whats the old expression......"all gave some.......some gave all". So far as an individual service members wartime contribution in the form of how much actual combat one sees, much of that is a matter of luck (you can decide good or bad luck...I have my own opinion on that). My own view is that when one volunteers to be in the military in times like this, especially those whose jobs/tasks will carry them into harms way.....the deed is done. Whether there is some monumental Pork Chop Hill event or Audie Murphy person.........was/is largely a matter of circumstance beyond all our control. He voluntarily served during a world war in a combat role. Thats enough for me. How much combat he did or didn't see seems immaterial.

My view anyway.........for whatever its worth..... 

I certainly respect your view and I entirely agree with a lot of it.  If I weren't the only person in Japan in my job in the Army at the time, I probably would have ended up in Iraq during the first war there in 1991.  But I was, so I didn't.  My father graduated from high school in 1942 and he immediately went to see the Navy recruiter, he wanted to be in the submarine service.  But he had bad dental care in his youth and had an upper complete denture and the Navy said no, so he ended up enlisting in the Army and served behind the lines working with radios in the Africa/Italy campaign.  Had he ended up in submarines, he might not have survived the war.  He certainly wouldn't have met my Italian mother either way.  Simple twists of fate.

I suppose to be honest I just used the opportunity to further display my distaste for the British in general and used old Phil's war service as a convenient excuse to launch my latest diatribe.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, floating dutchman said:

Who the fuck walked across Ed's lawn?

The uncounted multitudes, who else!  They never stop.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

sigh. He fought in Crete. You know? The Battle pf Crete?. the one where the Kiwi bloke was commander and the Raggedy remnants of the Greek army and Australians fought like hell to get the English out.

Greek troops were armed with Mannlicher–Schönauer 6.5 mm mountain carbines or ex-Austrian 8x56R Steyr-Mannlicher M1895 rifles, the latter a part of post-World War I reparations; about 1,000 Greeks carried antique Fusil Gras mle 1874 rifles. The garrison had been stripped of its best crew-served weapons, which were sent to the mainland; there were twelve obsolescent St. Étienne Mle 1907 light machine-guns and forty miscellaneous LMGs. Many Greek soldiers had fewer than thirty rounds of ammunition but could not be supplied by the British, who had no stocks in the correct calibres. Those with insufficient ammunition were posted to the eastern sector of Crete, where the Germans were not expected in force. The 8th Greek Regiment was under strength and many soldiers were poorly trained and poorly equipped. The unit was attached to 10th New Zealand Infantry Brigade (Brigadier Howard Kippenberger), who placed it in a defensive position around the village of Alikianos where, with local civilian volunteers, they held out against the German 7th Engineer Battalion.

Though Kippenberger had referred to them as "...nothing more than malaria-ridden little chaps...with only four weeks of service," the Greek troops repulsed German attacks until they ran out of ammunition, whereupon they began charging with fixed bayonets, overrunning German positions and capturing rifles and ammunition. The engineers had to be reinforced by two battalions of German paratroops, yet the 8th Regiment held on until 27 May, when the Germans made a combined arms assault by Luftwaffe aircraft and mountain troops. The Greek stand helped to protect the retreat of the Commonwealth forces, who were evacuated at Sfakia. Beevor and McDougal Stewart write that the defence of Alikianos gained at least 24 more hours for the completion of the final leg of the evacuation behind Layforce. The troops who were protected as they withdrew had begun the battle with more and better equipment than the 8th Greek Regiment.[

When you cut & paste it's considered polite to highlight it, put it in quotes or some other indication that it wasn't you who created the info.

Link to post
Share on other sites