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I'm all for it. I'm as anti Big Brother as anybody but I don't see this as a civil liberties issue. I see this strictly as a health issue.

It won't be too much longer when everyone who wants the vaccine can get it. I suppose it's an individual's right in the USA to refuse vaccinations but I also think it's every business has the right to refuse service to those who refuse to get it.

Discrimination laws concern race, creed, color, gender, political views, speech, and sports team affiliation and you can't refuse service for any of that.

But contagious disease? Well that's different. 

What say you?

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A lot of folks "recovering" from Covid are ending up in LTC facilities with severe complications, on oxygen and/or with clots and strokes. These are folks in their 40s and 50s. The course of the disea

If you voluntarily choose to attend a ticketed admission event, you are already agreeing to let them broadcast your image.  If you attend with your GF and your wife sees you on TV that's your problem

I can't believe we eradicated polio and smallpox. Social media has not improved society one bit.

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Agree the OP 100%!!  If 40% of Trumpbublicans, or other Regressive right wing fools choose not be vaccinated, I certainly don't want them in the checkout line at the market near me, nor on the barstool next to Missus BB and me at the pub!!  We will not reach so called "herd immunity" until 80% get vaccinated.  I fear it will never happen in the US, because of all the right wing whack jobs, addicted to Fox News and their elk....  Very nice older guy, my age, who is a Vendor where I work, told me how much he is enjoying Newsmax, instead of Fox.  I told him in as polite terms as I could invent that he's a right wing nutjob, and suggested he listen more to old Rush Limbaugh footage, or Alex what's his name???   Jones, maybe??

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Agree on passports.  Anyone remember the yellow ones we used to carry for foreign travel?  In addition to our national passport.  Smallpox, cholera, typhoid, typhus, yellow fever etc.  The concept is well established and is just being politicized for personal gain.  

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What's needed is an online database tied to your passport or (or state ID) with the vaccination status encrypted on it. Agreed and standardized worldwide. Once you verify someone's ID with the passport and appropriate biometrics (picture, for example - or something fancier and more modern) the database query comes back with an "OK". We don't want to be dealing with pieces of paper from 100s of jurisdictions that get lost, stolen, counterfeited etc. I don't want a "vaccine passport" or other document - I want a seamless experience that just works in milliseconds.

Of course, that won't happen because the government is too slow to implement such systems and the major power blocks will conspire to fuck it up by attempting to favor their own companies for the implementation. Or the tinfoil hat brigade will play politics and fuck it up by claiming that the black helicopters will be coming for folks on the database. Best plan would be to toss it out to tender to the CC companies - who already manage worldwide databases with instant access - and see who bites. Spend some of Biden's wealth redistribution ($2TN from our children to us) on that. A better use of funds than chucking cash at charismatic startup factories promising to make stuff only a little bit more expensive that we can already buy elsewhere.

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2 hours ago, NaptimeAgain said:

Agree on passports.  Anyone remember the yellow ones we used to carry for foreign travel?  In addition to our national passport.  Smallpox, cholera, typhoid, typhus, yellow fever etc.  The concept is well established and is just being politicized for personal gain.  

gawd yeah I remember those.. I've been trying to find mine for a couple years. When my dad got orders for Germany in '61, I had to get vaccinated for about 59 different things. We also had to show them in order to go to school... I got no problem with the concept. 

although they weren't called passports at the time.. they were called shot records.. I think the curren't verbage puts people off.

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I don't know how we get out of this without something like a vaccine passport. I sure as hell don't want to get this thing again, but the variants percolating in the non-protected population will make that much more likely. I count myself lucky, but still am just functioning at maybe 40-50% of what I used to be able to do. 

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2 hours ago, NaptimeAgain said:

Agree on passports.  Anyone remember the yellow ones we used to carry for foreign travel?  In addition to our national passport.  Smallpox, cholera, typhoid, typhus, yellow fever etc.  The concept is well established and is just being politicized for personal gain.  

^ this ^

A person has the right to decide to not be vaccinated

A person does NOT have the right to endanger me or my family

Period.

4 minutes ago, LenP said:

I don't know how we get out of this without something like a vaccine passport. I sure as hell don't want to get this thing again, but the variants percolating in the non-protected population will make that much more likely. I count myself lucky, but still am just functioning at maybe 40-50% of what I used to be able to do. 

Yep, and to take the next step in this bit of logic, variants will emerge from the unvaccinated population that will make the vaccinations less effective. The dumbasses will yowl about this as "proof" that vaccines are no good, no how

LP hope you and yours continue to improve and make full recovery, soon!

- DSK

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Still have mine from the 50’s. Also got issued another when I went in the military. Still have that one as well. 
 

I have no objection to requiring vaccinations and proof thereof to move about.....same as I support mandatory childhood vaccinations to attend school. While I understand the internal deliberations people might go through about the new vaccines safety and did a fair amount of research - as a layperson of course - to conclude it was by far the safer of the two roads, I would not support arresting people to force vaccinations....yet. Fortunately there are enough of our herd choosing vaccination to eventually likely impact the rate of spread in a positive way (Ro way below 1). That doesn’t mean you won’t get it if not vaccinated......it just means you’re less likely to kill someone else because of your decision. Herd immunity does not wipe out the virus, it simply means the virus won’t wipe out the entire herd. Some of the herd will still get ill and some of those will die.....miserably, even an occasional vaccinated member of the herd. 
 

I did see an article that the newest twist on the “vaccine passport” is the sale of counterfeit ones. 
 

Sometimes I’m amazed we’ve survived this long as a species.

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I'm not even waiting for an official passport, I'm carrying a copy of my Vax card in my wallet already, just in case and because I'd be happy and proud to prove it if asked.

 

The fact that such cards could be easily faked shouldn't be a problem as the anti vaxxers would have to admit they are lying shams if they were caught with one.

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2 hours ago, chinabald said:

Will I need to show this vaccine ID in order to vote? 

No reason to think u would.  If u are unvaccinated u might consider asking for an absentee ballot to avoid putting others at risk, though.

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1 minute ago, Point Break said:

In fact.........here they are.......I have no problem with vaccine passports.

IMG_3611.JPG

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IMG_3613.JPG

Looks a lot like mine, but you were getting vaccinations before I was born :-)

I'm going to guess the USMC didn't give you a choice in what shots u got.  Interested to see reports that 40% of current Marines are refusing the vaccine.  Didn't know that was possible.

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9 minutes ago, Point Break said:

In fact.........here they are.......I have no problem with vaccine passports.

IMG_3611.JPG

IMG_3612.JPG

IMG_3613.JPG

Prolly best that you hung onto that PB. Many years ago when I first went to a VA hospital for treatment, we were trying to restore my medical records from my service years as a reference point. I know I had two measurable exposures to ionizing radiation in my records. Six years later there was no mention of them in my otherwise complete medical history. Sometimes things get misplaced.

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I think that a vaccination passport makes perfect sense for all the reasons mentioned. Informally something similar is already happening. Considering a trip to Europe in the fall with a layover in Iceland coming or going. They, I assume the government, are saying visitors are welcome if they have been fully vaccinated.

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Seems like spending $ for a counterfeit vax card when a real one is free is kinda..... Stupid.

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16 hours ago, Dorado said:

I'm all for it. I'm as anti Big Brother as anybody but I don't see this as a civil liberties issue. I see this strictly as a health issue.

It won't be too much longer when everyone who wants the vaccine can get it. I suppose it's an individual's right in the USA to refuse vaccinations but I also think it's every business has the right to refuse service to those who refuse to get it.

Discrimination laws concern race, creed, color, gender, political views, speech, and sports team affiliation and you can't refuse service for any of that.

But contagious disease? Well that's different. 

What say you?

If you are vaccinated you don't need to worry about me passing it to you, think that through carefully.

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9 hours ago, billy backstay said:

Agree the OP 100%!!  If 40% of Trumpbublicans, or other Regressive right wing fools choose not be vaccinated, I certainly don't want them in the checkout line at the market near me, nor on the barstool next to Missus BB and me at the pub!!  We will not reach so called "herd immunity" until 80% get vaccinated.  I fear it will never happen in the US, because of all the right wing whack jobs, addicted to Fox News and their elk....  Very nice older guy, my age, who is a Vendor where I work, told me how much he is enjoying Newsmax, instead of Fox.  I told him in as polite terms as I could invent that he's a right wing nutjob, and suggested he listen more to old Rush Limbaugh footage, or Alex what's his name???   Jones, maybe??

If you are vaccinated you do not need to worry about me passing it to you.  Think that through carefully.

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9 hours ago, NaptimeAgain said:

Agree on passports.  Anyone remember the yellow ones we used to carry for foreign travel?  In addition to our national passport.  Smallpox, cholera, typhoid, typhus, yellow fever etc.  The concept is well established and is just being politicized for personal gain.  

Now there is HIPAA. 

Summary of the HIPAA Security Rule | HHS.gov

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8 hours ago, Wet Spreaders said:

What's needed is an online database tied to your passport or (or state ID) with the vaccination status encrypted on it. Agreed and standardized worldwide. Once you verify someone's ID with the passport and appropriate biometrics (picture, for example - or something fancier and more modern) the database query comes back with an "OK". We don't want to be dealing with pieces of paper from 100s of jurisdictions that get lost, stolen, counterfeited etc. I don't want a "vaccine passport" or other document - I want a seamless experience that just works in milliseconds.

Of course, that won't happen because the government is too slow to implement such systems and the major power blocks will conspire to fuck it up by attempting to favor their own companies for the implementation. Or the tinfoil hat brigade will play politics and fuck it up by claiming that the black helicopters will be coming for folks on the database. Best plan would be to toss it out to tender to the CC companies - who already manage worldwide databases with instant access - and see who bites. Spend some of Biden's wealth redistribution ($2TN from our children to us) on that. A better use of funds than chucking cash at charismatic startup factories promising to make stuff only a little bit more expensive that we can already buy elsewhere.

HIPAA

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7 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

^ this ^

A person has the right to decide to not be vaccinated

A person does NOT have the right to endanger me or my family

 

 

 

If you are vaccinated for the China Virus a virus carrier is no danger to you.  Think about that carefully.

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2 minutes ago, warbird said:

If you are vaccinated you do not need to worry about me passing it to you.  Think that through carefully.

Actually that’s incorrect. You indeed can worry at lot less. Some (not large) number of vaccinated people still wind up infected......and we really don’t know about all the variants and the original vaccines yet. 

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1 minute ago, Point Break said:

Actually that’s incorrect. You indeed can worry at lot less. Some (not large) number of vaccinated people still wind up infected......and we really don’t know about all the variants and the original vaccines yet. 

So... it not really a vaccine?

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18 minutes ago, warbird said:

If you are vaccinated you don't need to worry about me passing it to you, think that through carefully.

Well I'm not worried about me and I'm sure as hell not worried about you. But I am concerned with all those businesses that have to operate on a shoestring because of hard headed Flat Earth boneheaded booger eating morons in denial. 

 

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26 minutes ago, warbird said:

If you are vaccinated for the China Virus a virus carrier is no danger to you.  Think about that carefully.

Incorrect

The direct risk of getting seriously ill is greatly reduced... very greatly reduced. Not zero, the odds are much greater than your winning the lottery for example. The risk of contagion to somebody in my family is also reduced but the risk is far FAR greater than what we just talked about, exposure from the vaccinated..

Then, think about -THIS- "carefully"

The unvaccinated are breeders of new variants of the virus that could be considerably more dangerous and/or necessitate further vaccine.

- DSK

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While the idea of a passport sounds good, implementation might have issues. Shouldn't be something that can be easily counterfeited. Can't be issued by the Fed's because they don't have the records. People are getting their shots from local heath departments and from pharmacies and I'm not sure it the detailed info is passed to the state.

By the time a central database would get built need might be gone.

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12 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Incorrect

The direct risk of getting seriously ill is greatly reduced... very greatly reduced. The risk of contagion to somebody in my family is also reduced but the risk is far FAR greater than exposure from the vaccinated..

Then, think about -THIS- "carefully"

The unvaccinated are breeders of new variants of the virus that could be considerably more dangerous and/or necessitate further vaccine.

- DSK

So it is not a vaccine?  It is One-A-Day vitamins or Flinstone Chewables?

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4 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Do you know what the word "vaccine" means?

- DSK

Do you know that the networks view the "Vaccine" as and end all and save all and as we move foreward we are finding it isn"t and we still don't know long term effects if any.

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46 minutes ago, warbird said:

So... it not really a vaccine?

Well of course it is. Do you think vaccines are 100% effective? I think perhaps you know better and just enjoy the trolling? Let me know so I can drive on or provide you some resources on vaccinations. I'm not really into the verbal jousting. 

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15 minutes ago, warbird said:
21 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Do you know what the word "vaccine" means?

Do you know that the networks view the "Vaccine" as and end all and save all and as we move foreward we are finding it isn"t and we still don't know long term effects if any.

I'll take that as "no"

All vaccines boost your own immune system to fight whatever bacteria or virus is being vaccinated against. No vaccine is absolutely perfect,  but then very little that is made by man is perfect. Other than your perfectly stupid-ass posts. For example....

Of course we don't know "long term effects" for a vaccine that has been in use for less than a year. OTOH it has been tested on over 110 million USAnians so far. And we also know that COVID infection is very likely to have effects ranging from an achy foggy feeling to what look like life-long heart, liver, or other vital organ, damage. And of course death.

Death from COVID is literally 1,000 times more likely than a minor side effect from the vaccine. And other serious effects far more than that.

- DSK

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16 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

  for a vaccine that has been in use for less than a year. OTOH it has been tested on over 110 million USAnians so far.  

You have a real problem with facts.  These vaccines were being developed 12 months ago (give or take) and has been in use #(?) months?

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y'all are a bunch of pussies,  I grew up traveling around   Asia / SE Asia...   I was a fucking human pin cushion...    don't think you need a vaccine and herd immunity will take care of you,  fine,   here let me introduce you to the disease so you can be a part of the herd..

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22 minutes ago, warbird said:
42 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

  for a vaccine that has been in use for less than a year. OTOH it has been tested on over 110 million USAnians so far.  

You have a real problem with facts.  These vaccines were being developed 12 months ago (give or take) and has been in use #(?) months?

That's "less than a year"

Go to sleep now, try again tomorrow before you've guzzled that 2nd or 3rd handle

- DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

That's "less than a year"

Go to sleep now, try again tomorrow before you've guzzled that 2nd or 3rd handle

- DSK

1st handle, rinse dinner down with some white wine or a couple of beers and then start drinking..

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HIPAA would not prevent vaccine passports.  It would simply provide a regulatory framework for certain information contained therein.  https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/privacy/index.html  No vaccine is 100% protective.  The unvaccinated are the weak links in the public health scheme.  Like sentries who fall asleep at their post, or comrades who run away when the pressure is on.  The bad seam in a wooden hull.  The well lit building in the bombing blackout.  Pick a metaphor.  Yes they can choose not to do their part in a national crisis but the rest of us are also free to think of them as freeloaders and support activities and businesses than exclude them.

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I am absolutely pro-vaccine.

Having said that I have not been vaccinated yet because I need to make a decision.  Perhaps @NaptimeAgain or @burndoc can chime in.

I am susceptible to viral myocarditis if I get a fever.  I have had two MIs because of viral myocarditis.  As the docs know ell, there is no treatment for viral myocarditis, just supportive therapy to ease the strain on the heart.  I've survived it twice, I don't want to keep on pressing my luck.  If I don't get the vaccine, of course I am susceptible to the virus and the associated fever etc.  If I do get the vaccine, and I have a mild reaction to it including a fever, then I could also have problem.  If I get the vaccine and take Tylenol or another antipyretic prophylaxis, is that enough protection to prevent a fever?  I don't go out much because of physical limitations and a desire to limit my exposure to the virus.  My wife tested positive for the virus a few months ago, she was asymptomatic, and I had no symptoms of any kind while being in the same house with her during the quarantine period.  

So what's a guy to do?  My gut tells me the best course is to get the vaccine, take an antipyretic and probably I'll be fine.  I am scheduled to fly to the US in August, and I would feel better if I were vaccinated.  I would like to hear what others think.  I have talked to my doctor about it and he tends to agree with my thoughts.  I have a good friend that is  a doctor as well, he thinks the virus crisis is overblown, that I don't need the vaccine.  We have agreed to disagree on that matter.  

I would appreciate any input here.

 

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1 hour ago, Ed Lada said:

I am absolutely pro-vaccine.

Having said that I have not been vaccinated yet because I need to make a decision.  Perhaps @NaptimeAgain or @burndoc can chime in.

I am susceptible to viral myocarditis if I get a fever.  I have had two MIs because of viral myocarditis.  As the docs know ell, there is no treatment for viral myocarditis, just supportive therapy to ease the strain on the heart.  I've survived it twice, I don't want to keep on pressing my luck.  If I don't get the vaccine, of course I am susceptible to the virus and the associated fever etc.  If I do get the vaccine, and I have a mild reaction to it including a fever, then I could also have problem.  If I get the vaccine and take Tylenol or another antipyretic prophylaxis, is that enough protection to prevent a fever?  I don't go out much because of physical limitations and a desire to limit my exposure to the virus.  My wife tested positive for the virus a few months ago, she was asymptomatic, and I had no symptoms of any kind while being in the same house with her during the quarantine period.  

So what's a guy to do?  My gut tells me the best course is to get the vaccine, take an antipyretic and probably I'll be fine.  I am scheduled to fly to the US in August, and I would feel better if I were vaccinated.  I would like to hear what others think.  I have talked to my doctor about it and he tends to agree with my thoughts.  I have a good friend that is  a doctor as well, he thinks the virus crisis is overblown, that I don't need the vaccine.  We have agreed to disagree on that matter.  

I would appreciate any input here.

 

It's complicated since COVID itself appears to cause myocarditis in some patients.  Some links at the bottom.  And COVID clearly causes fever in the sicker symptomatic patients.  So I can appreciate you feeling between a rock and a hard place.  COVID itself is real, not trying to drag Hobot into this debate, the thread here on his scary experience with getting nasty COVID is very sobering.  

I have had assorted friends ask me for advice.  It is more complicated when you're talking with a friend and you don't have a professional relationship with its obligations.  So I tend with friends to talk about what I would do as opposed to what I think they should do.  As to COVID I tell them I would (and have been) vaccinated and my personal motivation is not so much about protecting me personally (although that is certainly nice too) but about being responsible and protecting others around me.  Some few patients truly cannot get vaccinated based on current medical understanding, and if the rest of us are vaccinated we will also reduce their risk.

Physicians get vaccinated for all sorts of things, hepatitis B, measles, influenza, in the course of our careers.  Some mix of personal protection and patient protection.  

What does your cardiologist recommend?  Physician expertise is all over the map, and I'd be inclined to consult with the experts in your stated cardiac circumstances.

https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2021/02/05/19/37/covid-19-as-a-possible-cause-of-myocarditis-and-pericarditis

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00085-0/fulltext

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199677/

https://www.tctmd.com/news/true-myocarditis-uncommon-covid-19-review-concludes

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24 minutes ago, NaptimeAgain said:

What does your cardiologist recommend?  Physician expertise is all over the map, and I'd be inclined to consult with the experts in your stated cardiac circumstances.

Thanks for the response and the links.  I will see what my cardiologist says.

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14 hours ago, Point Break said:

Actually that’s incorrect. You indeed can worry at lot less. Some (not large) number of vaccinated people still wind up infected......and we really don’t know about all the variants and the original vaccines yet. 

Yep, my mother is in a very high risk group. She did get it along with the rest of us despite being fully vaccinated. She did end up with pneumonia as well. Thankfully the course of her illness has been less severe than mine, whereas without the vaccine it would have almost certainly been much worse. Still, she got really sick and is still recovering. 

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13 hours ago, Point Break said:

Well of course it is. Do you think vaccines are 100% effective? I think perhaps you know better and just enjoy the trolling? Let me know so I can drive on or provide you some resources on vaccinations. I'm not really into the verbal jousting. 

I call BS!

Nothing is 100%, well death is but nothing else.
Covid 19 still is not as bad as Hong Kong Flu...........
That said, vax/novax, while a personal choice, why wouldn't one improve their odds?
Yep, wanna travel internationally, you need a yellow card. However, going to the ball game??? Just stop.

Sorry about calling BS old man. Hope you are well.

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7 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Yep, wanna travel internationally, you need a yellow card.

I have traveled internationally fairly extensively to Europe and Asia since 1963.  The last time I needed the yellow vaccination record was in 1963.  I have a collection of them somewhere.

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18 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

However, going to the ball game??? Just stop.

 

Why do you hate capitalism?

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1 hour ago, NaptimeAgain said:

It's complicated since COVID itself appears to cause myocarditis in some patients.  Some links at the bottom.  And COVID clearly causes fever in the sicker symptomatic patients.  So I can appreciate you feeling between a rock and a hard place.  COVID itself is real, not trying to drag Hobot into this debate, the thread here on his scary experience with getting nasty COVID is very sobering.  

I have had assorted friends ask me for advice.  It is more complicated when you're talking with a friend and you don't have a professional relationship with its obligations.  So I tend with friends to talk about what I would do as opposed to what I think they should do.  As to COVID I tell them I would (and have been) vaccinated and my personal motivation is not so much about protecting me personally (although that is certainly nice too) but about being responsible and protecting others around me.  Some few patients truly cannot get vaccinated based on current medical understanding, and if the rest of us are vaccinated we will also reduce their risk.

Physicians get vaccinated for all sorts of things, hepatitis B, measles, influenza, in the course of our careers.  Some mix of personal protection and patient protection.  

What does your cardiologist recommend?  Physician expertise is all over the map, and I'd be inclined to consult with the experts in your stated cardiac circumstances.

https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2021/02/05/19/37/covid-19-as-a-possible-cause-of-myocarditis-and-pericarditis

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00085-0/fulltext

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199677/

https://www.tctmd.com/news/true-myocarditis-uncommon-covid-19-review-concludes

Tough call. I’m 7 months removed from my last bout with myocarditis and associated MI, unknown viral cause. I’ve got shot one done and shot 2 tomorrow. I figure with fucktards like @warbirdaround it’s just a matter of time until I get exposed and Covid will likely kill me, so I’m taking the much-lower-risk but not zero-risk shot.

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10 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Tough call. I’m 7 months removed from my last bout with myocarditis and associated MI, unknown viral cause. I’ve got shot one done and shot 2 tomorrow. I figure with fucktards like @warbirdaround it’s just a matter of time until I get exposed and Covid will likely kill me, so I’m taking the much-lower-risk but not zero-risk shot.

Yeah, I'm leaning in that direction as well.

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33 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

I have traveled internationally fairly extensively to Europe and Asia since 1963.  The last time I needed the yellow vaccination record was in 1963.  I have a collection of them somewhere.

Last time I needed it was 95, I wasn't going to Africa, but if the flight had diverted instead of going to Ascension, that's where we would have ended up, hence the requirement.

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50 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

I have traveled internationally fairly extensively to Europe and Asia since 1963.  The last time I needed the yellow vaccination record was in 1963.  I have a collection of them somewhere.

Well I needed one back in the 90's when off sailing......

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1 hour ago, Ed Lada said:

Yeah, I'm leaning in that direction as well.

My doctor felt the same way as yours. The virus killed him in early December. 

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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

I think you are very confused.

Nope, you say that sports owners shouldn't be able to choose their customers (outside of the legally protected classes, of course)

 

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19 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Nope, you say that sports owners shouldn't be able to choose their customers (outside of the legally protected classes, of course)

 

Please cite.

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Maybe we should round up the resistors in "camps",  similar to what some American citizens enjoyed during WW2, for national security reasons.

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17 hours ago, Point Break said:

Actually that’s incorrect. You indeed can worry at lot less. Some (not large) number of vaccinated people still wind up infected......and we really don’t know about all the variants and the original vaccines yet. 

 

And we still don't know if we will need a booster shot in six months, or maybe every six months?  A lot is still unknown, and especially about the constant variants coming along every month or so, it seems??

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I think that we could solve this problem if massage parlors and strip clubs started requiring proof of vaccination. They are truly on the front line. They are also very popular with Evangelical white males, or so I have heard. 

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32 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

And we still don't know if we will need a booster shot in six months, or maybe every six months?  A lot is still unknown, and especially about the constant variants coming along every month or so, it seems??

I get the flu shot each year. Now I'll get 2.

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5 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

I am absolutely pro-vaccine.

Having said that I have not been vaccinated yet because I need to make a decision.  Perhaps @NaptimeAgain or @burndoc can chime in.

I am susceptible to viral myocarditis if I get a fever.  I have had two MIs because of viral myocarditis.  As the docs know ell, there is no treatment for viral myocarditis, just supportive therapy to ease the strain on the heart.  I've survived it twice, I don't want to keep on pressing my luck.  If I don't get the vaccine, of course I am susceptible to the virus and the associated fever etc.  If I do get the vaccine, and I have a mild reaction to it including a fever, then I could also have problem.  If I get the vaccine and take Tylenol or another antipyretic prophylaxis, is that enough protection to prevent a fever?  I don't go out much because of physical limitations and a desire to limit my exposure to the virus.  My wife tested positive for the virus a few months ago, she was asymptomatic, and I had no symptoms of any kind while being in the same house with her during the quarantine period.  

So what's a guy to do?  My gut tells me the best course is to get the vaccine, take an antipyretic and probably I'll be fine.  I am scheduled to fly to the US in August, and I would feel better if I were vaccinated.  I would like to hear what others think.  I have talked to my doctor about it and he tends to agree with my thoughts.  I have a good friend that is  a doctor as well, he thinks the virus crisis is overblown, that I don't need the vaccine.  We have agreed to disagree on that matter.  

I would appreciate any input here.

 

i have gotten the vaccine (Pfizer) and recommend it

It is not an attenuated virus so i am not sure about getting you getting a viral myocarditis from it. Most of the side affects are from the immune system revving up. As Naptime suggested talk with your cardiologist.

Three members of the extended family with heart issues, one with hypertrophy all received, grant this is different from your issue.

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On 4/11/2021 at 8:04 AM, NaptimeAgain said:

Agree on passports.  Anyone remember the yellow ones we used to carry for foreign travel?  In addition to our national passport.  Smallpox, cholera, typhoid, typhus, yellow fever etc.  The concept is well established and is just being politicized for personal gain.  

still got mine.

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21 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Cited

How so? 
Let me ask you this, do you feel private organizations have the right to demand access to my medical records?

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On 4/11/2021 at 12:59 AM, Dorado said:

Discrimination laws concern race, creed, color, gender, political views, speech, and sports team affiliation and you can't refuse service for any of that.

But contagious disease? Well that's different. 

What say you?

:huh:

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On 4/11/2021 at 11:36 AM, Willin' said:

I'm not even waiting for an official passport, I'm carrying a copy of my Vax card in my wallet already, just in case and because I'd be happy and proud to prove it if asked.

 

The fact that such cards could be easily faked shouldn't be a problem as the anti vaxxers would have to admit they are lying shams if they were caught with one.

I keep a pic of my Covid vaccination card on my phone, that works too.

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8 minutes ago, burndoc said:

i have gotten the vaccine (Pfizer) and recommend it

It is not an attenuated virus so i am not sure about getting you getting a viral myocarditis from it. Most of the side affects are from the immune system revving up. As Naptime suggested talk with your cardiologist.

Three members of the extended family with heart issues, one with hypertrophy all received, grant this is different from your issue.

My concern is the possibility of getting a fever as a side effect of the vaccine.  The last 2 times in my life I've had a fever, I had a heart attack a few days later.  I think the odds of getting a fever from the virus iare higher than getting a fever from the vaccine.  So I will probably get the vaccine and monitor my temp closely afterward.

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4 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

My concern is the possibility of getting a fever as a side effect of the vaccine.  The last 2 times in my life I've had a fever, I had a heart attack a few days later.  I think the odds of getting a fever from the virus iare higher than getting a fever from the vaccine.  So I will probably get the vaccine and monitor my temp closely afterward.

kind of get what you are saying

Fever is a response to infection viral or bacteria and the viral infection causes the heart problem, not the temp elevation. You had a fever fighting the virus. Fever let you know you were sick. 

I know you know everything we do has risk and benefit to it

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21 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

How so? 
Let me ask you this, do you feel private organizations have the right to demand access to my medical records?

Do you FEEL that your vaccination card is the same thing as "access to your medical records?"

Trump has a saying which covers this, I think

- DSK

 

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19 minutes ago, burndoc said:

kind of get what you are saying

Fever is a response to infection viral or bacteria and the viral infection causes the heart problem, not the temp elevation. You had a fever fighting the virus. Fever let you know you were sick. 

I know you know everything we do has risk and benefit to it

In both cases I had a fever because of a bacterial infection in my lower leg.  The 2nd time it almost reached sepsis, I was quite ill for a bit, my lower leg was almost as big as my thigh and had many nice shades of red, purple and black color at its peak.  In both cases 4 or 5 days after the bacterial infection subsided, and I was feeling somewhat normal, the MI occurred.  I was a bit pissed of the 2nd time, because the leg infection tried damn hard to kill me.  I had just started to recover, I was still in the hospital and then I had the MI.  I will never forget the nice German, female, internal med resident coming in my room one morning and asking how I felt.  I said pretty good, except I'm having some chest pain.  She did an EKG and looked at the tracing and said "Oh, this isn't good."  It was explained to me that the bacterial infection and attending fever, created conditions for the virus to multiply in the myocardium.  I hadn't had any fever for several days prior to or during the MI.  The first time it happened was 1994 and the last time it was in 2005.

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22 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Do you FEEL that your vaccination card is the same thing as "access to your medical records?"

Trump has a saying which covers this, I think

- DSK

 

Of course it does.
With yellow cards as a visa requirement, you are dealing with a sovereign nation asking for proof of vaccination to be allowed entry to that country. Perfectly within their rights.
A baseball or football game..... not so much.

Let me ask you this. Do you feel a sex club or similar, should have a right to ask for an AIDS or Social Disease Free Passport?

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53 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

How so? 
Let me ask you this, do you feel private organizations have the right to demand access to my medical records?

Imagine!

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6 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Of course it does.
With yellow cards as a visa requirement, you are dealing with a sovereign nation asking for proof of vaccination to be allowed entry to that country. Perfectly within their rights.
A baseball or football game..... not so much.

Let me ask you this. Do you feel a sex club or similar, should have a right to ask for an AIDS or Social Disease Free Passport?

Imagine!

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57 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

How so? 
Let me ask you this, do you feel private organizations have the right to demand access to my medical records?

Why do you hate capitalism?

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5 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

You really are a complete idiot.

And you hate capitalism. Kinda funny, no?

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2 hours ago, Voyageur said:

Maybe we should round up the resistors in "camps",  similar to what some American citizens enjoyed during WW2, for national security reasons.

That would create super spreader conditions in the "camps" and ironically at some point the survivors would have likely developed natural immunity, assuming they all stayed for the duration.  Basically a leper colony model.  In think vaccination is preferable to that.

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2 hours ago, More Cowbell2 said:

still got mine.

We keep our yellow cards with the passports. I actually read it and it says it is only valid for 10 years (the card, not the vaccine). Not sure how you get an updated one.

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Just now, Bristol-Cruiser said:

We keep our yellow cards with the passports. I actually read it and it says it is only valid for 10 years (the card, not the vaccine). Not sure how you get an updated one.

You get revaccinated.

I'm pretty sure the 10 year limit is because some vaccinations such as influenza, tetanus and some other things aren't life long.  But probably if you have an old card indicating polio, smallpox, and other bad things that a vaccine does offer life long immunity to, along with current vaccines for those that aren't, you would be safe.  If you are travelling between first world countries, you don't need any records.  I doubt that Europe and the US will insist on 'Vaccine Passports' for COVID in the foreseeable future, if ever.  I don't know about other parts of the world.

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2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

And you hate capitalism. Kinda funny, no?

So riddle us this, you have changed your position on the baker who refused the gay couple have you?
Yes? No?

I am not the conflicted one Bitch.

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9 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

So riddle us this, you have changed your position on the baker who refused the gay couple have you?
Yes? No?

I am not the conflicted one Bitch.

You have a problem with protected classes now? Is “anti-Vaxxer” a protected class?

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Just now, Raz'r said:

You have a problem with protected classes now? Is “anti-Vaxxer” a protected class?

Again, please cite.
All I have taken issue with is providing a portion of my medical records to anyone upon request.
You conflate that into a whole host of un-truths.
Why do you hate being honest so?

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14 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Again, please cite.
All I have taken issue with is providing a portion of my medical records to anyone upon request.
You conflate that into a whole host of un-truths.
Why do you hate being honest so?

Agree that you should not have to provide your medical records to anyone on request, however if you are asking for goods or services from a company or an individual then they have a sufficient reason to request such records. You are free to not provide the documents but they are free to refuse you services.

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33 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

So riddle us this, you have changed your position on the baker who refused the gay couple have you?
Yes? No?

I am not the conflicted one Bitch.

Did the baker believe that being gay was contagious?

- DSK

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2 minutes ago, Gangbusters said:

Agree that you should not have to provide your medical records to anyone on request, however if you are asking for goods or services from a company or an individual then they have a sufficient reason to request such records. You are free to not provide the documents but they are free to refuse you services.

Ah the voice of reason.

Some people seem to think THEIR RIGHTS! are necessarily the right to trample others. I disagree with this. If I were running a business open to the public, especially one that entailed a high risk of contagion... like a brothel or a church or sports arena or a bar or a mega-store... you're damn right I'd require proof of vaccination before letting people in.

Don't like it? Move along and try the next brothel, cuz

Dead people don't make good customers. I dunno why that is so hard to grasp for the looney-tunes RWNJs who claim to be capitalists.

- DSK

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