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15 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Yet AIDS is far more deadly if contracted, no?

I do not have instant access to talking points like you seem to. But my feeling is that AIDS has never ever and cannot be transmitted in settings like a MLB game.

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A lot of folks "recovering" from Covid are ending up in LTC facilities with severe complications, on oxygen and/or with clots and strokes. These are folks in their 40s and 50s. The course of the disea

I think that we could solve this problem if massage parlors and strip clubs started requiring proof of vaccination. They are truly on the front line. They are also very popular with Evangelical white

I can't believe we eradicated polio and smallpox. Social media has not improved society one bit.

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23 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

I had to have a yellow card with proof of a yellow fever shot to travel to Kenya, Zimbabwe, Tanzania, and Uganda last year.  They are still a thing in some places.  

Yellow fever, I got vaccinated for that almost 60 years ago.  Is it good for life?  I might need to go to Zimbabwe sometime just because that's such a cool name.  Wasn't it Belgian Congo or something before?  Many of the countries in Africa have different names than they did when I was a kid.  

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A lot of folks "recovering" from Covid are ending up in LTC facilities with severe complications, on oxygen and/or with clots and strokes. These are folks in their 40s and 50s. The course of the disease is most definitely not binary, die or return to full health. There are a lot of folks who will have long slow recoveries, and many who will deal with often debilitating side complications for the remainder of their lives. 

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Spike mutations seem to be accelerating. Getting vaccinated is good, particularly with an mRNA vaccine updated with the latest strains. But you should also continue to wear a good mask if indoors with others. If you don't do that, you are crating tiny opportunities for the virus to evolve the ability to survive in vaccinated bodies. Individually, the risk is very low. Summed over the entire population, the risk is very high.

 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, apophenia said:

Spike mutations seem to be accelerating. Getting vaccinated is good, particularly with an mRNA vaccine updated with the latest strains. But you should also continue to wear a good mask if indoors with others. If you don't do that, you are crating tiny opportunities for the virus to evolve the ability to survive in vaccinated bodies. Individually, the risk is very low. Summed over the entire population, the risk is very high.

I'm 63 and despite my desire to have all vaccinations, am pretty sure a mask will be part of my daily life from here on.  It's the least I can do and I hope others feel similarly.

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Just now, Cal20sailor said:

I'm 63 and despite my desire to have all vaccinations, am pretty sure a mask will be part of my daily life from here on.  It's the least I can do and I hope others feel similarly.

I don't see it changing. 

One nice side effect is that the common cold and flu are pretty much dormant.

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5 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

I'm 63 and despite my desire to have all vaccinations, am pretty sure a mask will be part of my daily life from here on.  It's the least I can do and I hope others feel similarly.

I'm nearly two decades your junior and I'll be doing the same. I've been wearing masks in public since my CNY trip to Taipei last year. Mask usage has not only saved me from COVID, but also the common cold/flu.

 A common cold is no great hardship, but I'm looking forward to turning all those sick days into sailing days with one weird trick that viruses hate.

 

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24 minutes ago, apophenia said:

I'm nearly two decades your junior and I'll be doing the same. I've been wearing masks in public since my CNY trip to Taipei last year. Mask usage has not only saved me from COVID, but also the common cold/flu.

 A common cold is no great hardship, but I'm looking forward to turning all those sick days into sailing days with one weird trick that viruses hate.

 

You read like a medical professional, so I'm going to overlook your CNY reference, although Stephen Stills might not.  Thanks for sharing your expertise.  

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2 hours ago, Borracho said:

I do not have instant access to talking points like you seem to. But my feeling is that AIDS has never ever and cannot be transmitted in settings like a MLB game.

Sorry to disappoint, I do not read daily talking points like some in this thread.

I will tell you this, and I think I have mentioned this before to this crowd. My spouse is a public health nurse. We live in and her area of responsibility is what you all came to read about or watch news reports on long before the pandemic spread across the nation and world. The Containment Zone being ground zero and patient number one in the US live quite close to us. So while most of you were first learning of The Wuhan Flu, we were up to our arses in it. It is a bit disconcerting to have The National Guard parked just behind one's backyard, quite literally. So Covid has been a reality since February. Full on lockdown, since the first week of March..... and a spouse directly in the line of fire. Shit, several dozen of her co-workers died from coronavirus in the early onset. Heartbreaking they were getting crap advice and limited supplies.
Point is we as a family and as a community in some regards, have been living with Covid 19 long before others even saw it as a news story. As such I made it a point to learn all that I could. Our family's health depended on it. 
I can remember long before Dr. Fauci came around to the idea of masking up, digging around in my boat supplies in the basement to give my wife the dozen or so N95 masks I could find. So much of what I talk about here is not what I saw on CNN or MSNBC or whatever your news outlet de jour is.
Have a great day and be well.

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3 hours ago, shaggy said:

You can't catch Aids from simply breathing the air around an infected person..  False analogy..  What part of that do you not comprehend??  

Not the point. The point is do you have the right to invade a person's privacy? Does a security guard or ticket collector have the right to demand to see a person's health records?
They do not.

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12 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Not the point. The point is do you have the right to invade a person's privacy? Does a security guard or ticket collector have the right to demand to see a person's health records?
They do not.

Again, If you are voluntarily going into a private venue they can absolutely ask for it... the vaccine info...  

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37 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Not the point. The point is do you have the right to invade a person's privacy? Does a security guard or ticket collector have the right to demand to see a person's health records?
They do not.

Where the fuck do you get this shit? You have privacy rights enforceable against a business? They can pretty much do whatever the fuck they want unless they are recording your wife’s ugly ass while she is in the shitter.
 ticket collector = authorized agent of the company.  Company = that private entity not governed by the bill of rights.

Its fucking unreal how people like you will just say words regardless of their connection to any idea of fact or evidence or reality. 

(countdown to retard saying “but ma HIPAA rights!!!”

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Just now, MR.CLEAN said:

Where the fuck do you get this shit? You have privacy rights enforceable against a business? They can pretty much do whatever the fuck they want unless they are recording your wife’s ugly ass while she is in the shitter.
 ticket collector = authorized agent of the company.  Company = that private entity not governed by the bill of rights.

Its fucking unreal how people like you will just say words regardless of their connection to any idea of fact or evidence or reality. 

(countdown to retard saying “but ma HIPAA rights!!!”

Fucking failed sailmaker on his way to another divorce pretending he knows how rights work. Charming. 

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On 4/12/2021 at 2:53 PM, Raz'r said:

What sock is this? Diskishness right out the gate. 

Don't know about your elk, but this vaccine passport thing is pretty idiot proof. I've got one sitting in front of me. Get a shot, get a card. Done.

It might have been dickishness out of the gate, but the central question is still valid.  The argument against voter ID has always been that it's just too hard to get and the poor colored folk are going to be left out.  Well, the same exact thing is happening now with Covid.  Minority communities are getting left behind so what makes you think that their access to a vaccine passport is going to be any easier than getting a voter ID to vote???  Nevermind the fact that you need ID for pretty much everything in life.  Those same minority communities who bitch they can't get a gov't issued ID to vote seem to be able to buy their Colt 45 magnums and their cartoon of Kool's every week with ID requirements in place.  

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On 4/12/2021 at 3:57 PM, silent bob said:

I'm sorry, Mr. Apophenia, you will not be allowed on It's a Small World as your Health Passport indicates that you have High Cholesterol and a Bladder Retention issue, the Friendly Folks at Disneyland!

And see.... this is what I don't understand about this whole issue.  How the fuck do you go from "Provide proof of this one specific vax" instead to "show us your entire medical history"????  SB, you're trying to make a leap that even Evel Knievel never attempted.  

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19 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

It might have been dickishness out of the gate, but the central question is still valid.  The argument against voter ID has always been that it's just too hard to get and the poor colored folk are going to be left out.  Well, the same exact thing is happening now with Covid.  Minority communities are getting left behind so what makes you think that their access to a vaccine passport is going to be any easier than getting a voter ID to vote???  Nevermind the fact that you need ID for pretty much everything in life.  Those same minority communities who bitch they can't get a gov't issued ID to vote seem to be able to buy their Colt 45 magnums and their cartoon of Kool's every week with ID requirements in place.  

WTF does voter ID have to do with this?  If you get the vaccine you get the card.  You never fail in the "make it racist" category dude.

edit: FWIW I agree with almost everything you post with the exception being the above.   And this belongs in PA.

rant over.

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23 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Fucking failed sailmaker on his way to another divorce pretending he knows how rights work. Charming. 

Was never a sailmaker. Developed a process to produce membrane. As Duncan Skinner said upon visiting the factory, "What you have developed here every membrane producer now basis their process on" (paraphrased, it was too long ago to remember the exact verbiage). So I am not so sure "failed" is the word your looking for.
My one marriage will outlast any endeavor you undertake sir.

As for rights, as opposed to your personal attacks  and misattributes (your forte),  I simply reject that any private entity providing a service for fee has a right to my medical history.

You are still the same dickhead I have always taken you to be. Thanks for not disappointing.

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11 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

WTF does voter ID have to do with this?  If you get the vaccine you get the card.  You never fail in the "make it racist" category dude.

edit: FWIW I agree with almost everything you post with the exception being the above.   And this belongs in PA.

rant over.

See, we do agree on some things S.

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1 hour ago, shaggy said:

Again, If you are voluntarily going into a private venue they can absolutely ask for it... the vaccine info...  

Not so sure you are correct. Medical records tend to be a holy grail in terms of privacy.
And frankly, they can ask.......

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Interesting reading on the BBC website.

Professor Snape (not kidding) from Oxford has decided to, or asked permission to, expand mixed dosage vaccines. In essence they are taking people who had Pfizer as their first dose and giving them Astra Zeneca or Moderna as their second dose. Snape made a comment suggesting that there are benefits in this approach beyond logistics. That there is some preliminary data suggesting a better response or stronger response in the formation of antibodies and T cells.
Intersting read.

'Mix and match' UK Covid vaccine trial expanded - BBC News

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On 4/13/2021 at 7:47 AM, Ed Lada said:

For the hundred bucks or whatever it costs, it's worth it for one trip to me.  

Yep, same here.  I have the Global Entry card.  It used to be a Massive PITA to get and try to schedule an interview if you lived out of the country.  Now you can do interview on arrival at some of the major ports of entry like LAX or JFK, if you've already had your application approved.  That's how I finally got mine.  SOOOOOOO worth it.

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On 4/13/2021 at 8:42 AM, quod umbra said:

How is it no different?
TSA is a governmental function. Going to a bar or baseball game is not sir.

I find it alarming how many of you would surrender your right to privacy.
I find in unconscionable how many of you would surrender another's right to privacy.

WTF does it have to do with privacy?  You have a card that says you've been vaccinated for COVID.  It's a binary thing.  Card = vaccinated.  No card  = not vaccinated.  What "privacy" issues are you worried about there???  

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On 4/13/2021 at 8:50 AM, quod umbra said:

I would also add Billy that only 8.5% of the population has had Covid according to the CDC.
Currently we are running at 62.5 k new cases per week. So the percentage of people in the US contracting is 0.18%.
Statistically very small number. Do not think it rises to the level of "Show me your papers!"

550,000 dead in a year?  And counting.  Yes, it does.

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3 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Yep, same here.  I have the Global Entry card.  It used to be a Massive PITA to get and try to schedule an interview if you lived out of the country.  Now you can do interview on arrival at some of the major ports of entry like LAX or JFK, if you've already had your application approved.  That's how I finally got mine.  SOOOOOOO worth it.

Yup. Got one at SFO. In and out in 15 minutes during the plague when the Airport was a ghost town. 

I did think the 100 buck extortion fee was a little rude <_<

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On 4/13/2021 at 1:40 PM, quod umbra said:

The science does not support what you are asking of people.

I have no clue what you're even referring to here.  What do you think we are asking of people that the science doesn't support???

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On 4/13/2021 at 1:51 PM, Bus Driver said:

For those who insist going maskless is a "right".

172745104_4359075760817221_4438488005523163206_n.jpeg

Brilliant!

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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

Not the point. The point is do you have the right to invade a person's privacy? Does a security guard or ticket collector have the right to demand to see a person's health records?
They do not.

Ask your wife the health professional if a requirement to show proof of vaccination is a HIPAA violation

A security guard tasked with keeping out non-vaccinated people does not have the right to "see a person's helath record" but he for damn sure has the right to either see your vaccine card or boot you the fuck out.

And remember, always obey the instructions of law enforcement officers or they can kill you

- DSK

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5 hours ago, quod umbra said:

I will circle back to a question I have asked several times now but not one of you has endeavored to answer. Should a person with AIDS, or any other social disease, be required to prove they are not sick to attend an adult social event?

Because AIDS is not a fucking airborne pathogen that you can catch simply by breathing someone else's spit droplets, ya dumphuck!

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59 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

How the fuck do you go from "Provide proof of this one specific vax" instead to "show us your entire medical history"????

none so blind as those who refuse to see 

International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis - Wikipedia

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5 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Geezus BM, how many "anti-maskers do you come across on a daily basis? Seriously.
Did you know those common blue masks most people wear are only 45% effective of stopping the spread of germs? N 95 and KN94 etc are up in the 95% range. So why do we not mandate only N95 or similar?

Because 45%, combined with physical distancing, is a fukload better than 0% protection.  

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17 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Ask your wife the health professional if a requirement to show proof of vaccination is a HIPAA violation

A security guard tasked with keeping out non-vaccinated people does not have the right to "see a person's helath record" but he for damn sure has the right to either see your vaccine card or boot you the fuck out.

And remember, always obey the instructions of law enforcement officers or they can kill you

- DSK

They ABSOLUTELY have the right to require whatever the fuck they want before serving you.  They can make you tell them how big your cock is if they want.  Don’t like it? Go away. 

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51 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Not so sure you are correct. Medical records tend to be a holy grail in terms of privacy.
And frankly, they can ask.......

Please feel free to show the world which medical records privacy laws impact non-healthcare companies requiring proof of vaccination before serving customers. Doesn’t need to be a proper cite, a link is fine. Holding our collective breaths in 3...2...1...

Everything you’ve ever said on SA is bullshit, this is no exception. Judging from your recent spate of it, things back home aren’t going so well. 
 

For the rest of you, keep a link handy to Jacobson v Massachusetts (197 U.S. 11 (1905) for the next time you come across some liberty-spouting patriot convinced that HIPAA or the constitution somehow prevents anything like this.  That case says that the government can require every citizen to be vaccinated if it chooses to do so.  Yet these dumb fucks think that requiring proof of vaccination is illegal? It’s not even illegal for the government, much less a company.

 

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:
3 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

I'm 63 and despite my desire to have all vaccinations, am pretty sure a mask will be part of my daily life from here on.  It's the least I can do and I hope others feel similarly.

I don't see it changing. 

One nice side effect is that the common cold and flu are pretty much dormant.

I have said repeatedly that I may continue to wear a mask in crowds even after this pandemic ends.  I've never been so healthy in my life.  I typically catch at least one or two colds a year and the flu about every two to three.  I haven't has so much as a sniffle for an entire year.  

For those that say masks don't work, you're fucking retards.

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2 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Not the point. The point is do you have the right to invade a person's privacy? Does a security guard or ticket collector have the right to demand to see a person's health records?
They do not.

JFC, no one is asking you for your health records!!!

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55 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

,  I simply reject that any private entity providing a service for fee has a right to my medical history.
 

Reject all you want. "No Shirts, No Shoes, No Vaccine, No service"

Perfectly legal (for now)

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

And see.... this is what I don't understand about this whole issue.  How the fuck do you go from "Provide proof of this one specific vax" instead to "show us your entire medical history"????  SB, you're trying to make a leap that even Evel Knievel never attempted.  

In a few months, when the vaccine is available to everyone on earth, it will be the individual's responsibility to be vaccinated.  If someone who is not vaccinated gets sick, it will be on them.  I have had my first shot.  I got a card that indicates that I got my first shot.  Its something that I could draw up and print on my iPad in about four minutes. How will a bouncer at the bar distinguish a real Immunization Card from a fake one, when they can barely tell a real Driver's License from a fake?  And remember when our Social Security Cards stated "Not to be used for Identification"?

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6 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

I have said repeatedly that I may continue to wear a mask in crowds even have this pandemic ends.  I've never been so healthy in my life.  I typically catch at least one or two colds a year and the flu about every two to three.  I haven't has so much as a sniffle for an entire year.  

For those that say masks don't work, you're fucking retards.

yep. 

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37 minutes ago, Dorado said:

Yup. Got one at SFO. In and out in 15 minutes during the plague when the Airport was a ghost town. 

I did think the 100 buck extortion fee was a little rude <_<

Go in and out of crowded international terminals more than a couple of times a year where the entire entry hall is a thriving mass of humanity and you'll be thinking that $hundy was a bargain.  

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2 minutes ago, silent bob said:

In a few months, when the vaccine is available to everyone on earth, it will be the individual's responsibility to be vaccinated.  If someone who is not vaccinated gets sick, it will be on them.  I have had my first shot.  I got a card that indicates that I got my first shot.  Its something that I could draw up and print on my iPad in about four minutes. How will a bouncer at the bar distinguish a real Immunization Card from a fake one, when they can barely tell a real Driver's License from a fake?  And remember when our Social Security Cards stated "Not to be used for Identification"?

Ahh, the old "no ID is good enough" routine, so why have any ID at all. Always been BS.

Will people cheat? Yep. Will 95% of folks not cheat? Yep.

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2 minutes ago, silent bob said:

In a few months, when the vaccine is available to everyone on earth, it will be the individual's responsibility to be vaccinated.  If someone who is not vaccinated gets sick, it will be on them.  I have had my first shot.  I got a card that indicates that I got my first shot.  Its something that I could draw up and print on my iPad in about four minutes. How will a bouncer at the bar distinguish a real Immunization Card from a fake one, when they can barely tell a real Driver's License from a fake?

Easy, make counterfeiting a card a 5 year felony. 

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1 minute ago, Burning Man said:

Go in and out of crowded international terminals more than a couple of times a year where the entire entry hall is a thriving mass of humanity and you'll be thinking that $hundy was a bargain.  

Most of the time it makes a bit of difference at medium traffic entries like SFO, sometimes it will even slow you down if the US Citizen lines are short. But Houston? Thank you Jesus for Global Entry.

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4 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

I have said repeatedly that I may continue to wear a mask in crowds even have this pandemic ends.  I've never been so healthy in my life.  I typically catch at least one or two colds a year and the flu about every two to three.  I haven't has so much as a sniffle for an entire year.  

For those that say masks don't work, you're fucking retards.

You and I finally agree, but go easy on retard, I was a teacher for a few years and that term offends me.  Just saying.

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4 minutes ago, silent bob said:

In a few months, when the vaccine is available to everyone on earth, it will be the individual's responsibility to be vaccinated.  If someone who is not vaccinated gets sick, it will be on them.  I have had my first shot.  I got a card that indicates that I got my first shot.  Its something that I could draw up and print on my iPad in about four minutes. How will a bouncer at the bar distinguish a real Immunization Card from a fake one, when they can barely tell a real Driver's License from a fake?  And remember when our Social Security Cards stated "Not to be used for Identification"?

Yeah, I get that.  But that's a different argument.  The current debate is about whether it is a good idea or not.  The implementation and enforcement argument is a different topic altogether.  Especially as we get to the point of needing annual shots or boosters and such.  But it doesn't invalidate the fact that requiring it is not a bad thing for the greater good of society.  

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4 minutes ago, Raz&#x27;r said:

Ahh, the old "no ID is good enough" routine, so why have any ID at all. Always been BS.

Sounds exactly like the argument against voter ID.  Just saying.

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4 minutes ago, Raz&#x27;r said:

Most of the time it makes a bit of difference at medium traffic entries like SFO, sometimes it will even slow you down if the US Citizen lines are short. But Houston? Thank you Jesus for Global Entry.

Yeah, SWMBO and I returned from Costa Rica into DFW last Jan 2020.  I was in an out of the Global entry line in about 15 min.  It took her well over an hour to clear customs.  We almost missed our connecting flight when we had a good 2 hr layover planned.  Praise be to Allah for GE.  

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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

See, we do agree on some things S.

So is this your attempt at familiarity or just a reminder that I was once stupid enough to let my guard down?

Either way, we ain't partners and we ain't friends. I see you have already played the "superior knowledge" card, how long before you get the story about your royalty lineage? So, just fucketh off.

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BTW, New York State already has a digital pass that can be applied for by those who have been vaccinated or have a recent negative COVID test. It's based on an app called Excelsior Pass, and the pass needs to be renewed every 30 days. I signed up, submitted my name, DOB, and initial vaccine date and the app verified my status and generated a pass, which can be displayed on an IOS or Android device, or printed with a QR code.

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29 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Go in and out of crowded international terminals more than a couple of times a year where the entire entry hall is a thriving mass of humanity and you'll be thinking that $hundy was a bargain.  

That's me just sniveling.

I'm just a once or maybe twice a year Schlubb , but I hate airport clusterfuckery so much I paid it anyway. 

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37 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Sounds exactly like the argument against voter ID.  Just saying.

Exactly, it’s the same bogus argument. Require photo ID and the Repubs next hurdle will be hologram tagged IDs as those blacks found out how to get photos.  

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

Sounds exactly like the argument against voter ID.  Just saying.

Except for all that stuff about there being 12 cases a year of voter fraud in the whole country?

Please go read Jacobsen so you understand why and when the government can legitimately abridge your fundamental rights in the name of the police power. 12 republicans voting their dead mom’s mail in ballot don’t cut it. 

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11 minutes ago, silent bob said:

They don’t “have” to police them. They can choose to.

If they tell me they are requiring proof of vaccine I’m pretty likely to fly that airline. It’s in their interest to do so.

why do y’all hate capitalism?

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Better idea for using a counterfeited vaccine card - through contact tracing if someone is exposed and dies then file manslaughter charges - pretty much the same as exposing someone to aids. 

If you choose to be reckless then be prepared to suffer the consequences.  See the woman who coughed on the cancer patient getting 30 days as an example.

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Public key cryptography is a very reliable and proven way to create ironclad credentials and signed documents. You don't need any central databases, except to identify the recognized signing authorities.

When a document is issued, it is mathematically signed by a registered authority. The resulting document can be mathematically authenticated by anyone. Forgery requires computing resources many times greater than the maximum possible compute power of the entire universe.

If you like math games and are serious about grappling with voting integrity, vaccine passports or travel authorization then public key infrastructure (PKI) is worth diving into.

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If you voluntarily choose to attend a ticketed admission event, you are already agreeing to let them broadcast your image.  If you attend with your GF and your wife sees you on TV that's your problem to sort it out with them.

Your height and weight are part of your health records.  So are your skin and eye color, which tell me your risk of skin cancer.  When you stand next to the "you must be at least this tall" sign for the ride you are disclosing personal health information.  Or "guess your weight or your age" for a prize.  If you fly on small regional planes they can use your weight to balance the sucker for flight.  I could easily compute your BMI and your risk factors for all sorts of diseases.  Your BAC or observed consumption in a bar is personal health info and in some settings would give me a fair estimate of your substance abuse profile.  Smoking in public discloses risks for STDs, alcohol misuse disorders, cancer, obstetric complications, erectile dysfunction, etc.  All that is much more informative than your vaccination status if someone wanted to use the information against you.

The bigger risk is that people without proof of vaccination (with legit exceptions in narrowly defined comorbid diseases) will be deemed by the public to have certain undesirable character traits on dating apps. :D

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, d&#x27;ranger said:

So is this your attempt at familiarity or just a reminder that I was once stupid enough to let my guard down?

Either way, we ain't partners and we ain't friends. I see you have already played the "superior knowledge" card, how long before you get the story about your royalty lineage? So, just fucketh off.

Royal linage?
Not bloody likely.
Cell in Tower of London, badge of honor.

Such nastiness, such hate.

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The ease at which ya'll would surrender your civil liberties I find troubling.
The demand that others do so,, unfathomable.

You will never get your freedoms back once you freely give them up. NEVER!

 

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Ben Franklin.

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23 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

The ease at which ya'll would surrender your civil liberties I find troubling.
The demand that others do so,, unfathomable.

You will never get your freedoms back once you freely give them up. NEVER!

 

 

Why won’t you answer the question that’s been posed to you many times???  What private information are you giving up by showing a card that says “Vaccinated:  YES”????

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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

The ease at which ya'll would surrender your civil liberties I find troubling.
The demand that others do so,, unfathomable.

You will never get your freedoms back once you freely give them up. NEVER!

 

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Ben Franklin.

You are a tiresome twit in all of you incarnations.  I feel sorry for you.

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

Why won’t you answer the question that’s been posed to you many times???  What private information are you giving up by showing a card that says “Vaccinated:  YES”????

 

2 hours ago, quod umbra said:

The ease at which ya'll would surrender your civil liberties I find troubling.
The demand that others do so,, unfathomable.

You will never get your freedoms back once you freely give them up. NEVER!

 

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Ben Franklin.

You don't have to give up a thing. Don't want to share status, don't frequent the establishment. Enough of you and there will be a market of the unvaccinated to share their vira. 

Personally, I'll go out of my way to fly on airlines who check vax cards. Probably won't go to a ballgame for another year.

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Why won’t you answer the question that’s been posed to you many times???  What private information are you giving up by showing a card that says “Vaccinated:  YES”????

Ummmmm your vaccination history. Do you think that is a leap from being required to prove whether or not you have had Covid? Or syphilis, on and on and on..... slippery slope JB.
Jethro, I am sorry you don't get it. Frankly a lot of people here do not surprise me, you and PB do.

What I do find curious, is that the three people who have often talked of their military service would not take issue. Do you guys think that is because you were used to the military and being ordered to comply many times daily? Not being funny, just curious.

Mr. Lada, you need not respond. You say a real lot but offer nothing.

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2 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Mr. Lada, you need not respond. You say a real lot but offer nothing.

I think you are projecting there John.

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45 minutes ago, Raz&#x27;r said:

 

You don't have to give up a thing. Don't want to share status, don't frequent the establishment. Enough of you and there will be a market of the unvaccinated to share their vira. 

Personally, I'll go out of my way to fly on airlines who check vax cards. Probably won't go to a ballgame for another year.

Ugh. You have already been vaccinated M. Even if you contract the virus again you have zero chance of being sick enough to be hospitalized. Do you not understand that?

Seemingly intelligent people, scared witless and thus devoid of all reason. I feel bad for you all. I really do.

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2 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

I think you are projecting there John.

My name isn't John. More evidence of that which you believe to be 1000% factual, but isn't.

And I am not Snaggletooth either....... or am I?
Some day I will tell you all a grand story, it is called, The Ruse.

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2 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

I feel bad for you all. I really do.

The man more deserving of pity that any other person here feeling bad for us.  

YCMTSU folks!  :lol: 

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1 minute ago, quod umbra said:

My name isn't John. More evidence of that which you believe to be 1000% factual, but isn't.

Well one of your former names here was Jack, Jack comes from John.

Now if you are denying you are a John in terms pf patronizing prostitutes, I really don't care that much about your private life.

 

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Just now, Ed Lada said:

The man more deserving of pity that any other person here feeling bad for us.  

YCMTSU folks!  :lol: 

Hey Ed, can I nask you a personal question, just something I am curious about. Have you ever actually been on a boat, let alone sailed?

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Just now, Ed Lada said:

Well one of your former names here was Jack, Jack comes from John.

Now if you are denying you are a John in terms pf patronizing prostitutes, I really don't care that much about your private life.

 

Nor anyone yours, yet you run on endlessly about it.
Must be that 'large country sized ego' of yours where you think you are far more interesting than the reality of you life trapped behind a monitor.

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2 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Nor anyone yours, yet you run on endlessly about it.
Must be that 'large country sized ego' of yours where you think you are far more interesting than the reality of you life trapped behind a monitor.

No, I know how interesting I am.  Too bad you are of very little interest to anyone, hence your desperate attempts here to gain attention to the point that most of what you say is specious nonsense.  Perhaps if you didn't try so hard it would work better.  

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7 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

Jack comes from John.

Mathew , Mark , Luke and John 

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28 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Ugh. You have already been vaccinated M. Even if you contract the virus again you have zero chance of being sick enough to be hospitalized. Do you not understand that?

Seemingly intelligent people, scared witless and thus devoid of all reason. I feel bad for you all. I really do.

That is not true. My mother developed pneumonia one month after her second shot. Variants are gong to keep us suffering until enough people get vaccinated and follow protocols to significantly slow the mutations. Too many people are saying they will refuse to be vaccinated, and too many people are refusing to follow social distancing protocols, so we all suffer as a result. 

 

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I wish you people would stop qouting squid umbrella or whatever the fuck his name is... I blocked his stupid ass a long time ago but you've rendered the block null and void 

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7 hours ago, quod umbra said:

...

Seemingly intelligent people, scared witless and thus devoid of all reason. I feel bad for you all. I really do.

You don't have that problem. You've never seemed intelligent

- DSK

 

 

 

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Putting all the name calling and shit slinging aside............instead of a passport why not just wear a big scarlet letter V on your chest? 

You know, something original.

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16 hours ago, LenP said:

That is not true. My mother developed pneumonia one month after her second shot. Variants are gong to keep us suffering until enough people get vaccinated and follow protocols to significantly slow the mutations. Too many people are saying they will refuse to be vaccinated, and too many people are refusing to follow social distancing protocols, so we all suffer as a result. 

 

Okay Len. Sorry your Mom was not well. Question, you say she developed pneumonia, was it Covid related? I assume it is but you did not say so specifically.

So statistically around 77 million Americans have been vaccinated. There have been 5,800 breakthrough cases. Out of those breakthrough cases, 74 people died.
The math (because we should deal in science not emotion).The number of breakthrough cases as a percentage of those vaccinated is 0.0075325% or 7.5 people per thousand. Of those 74 have died, so 0.000096104%. That equates to a 1.2758621% chance of death IF you are one of the breakthrough cases.
This is statistically insignificant and thus the statement that you have like zero chance of dying from Covid once fully vaccinated is true. Now what I could not find is what conditions lead to this people contracting and/or dying after being vaccinated.

COVID-19 Infection After Vaccine is Rare But Possible, CDC Says | BioSpace

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Yes Covid related, and I think it is far too early to state with any certainty what number of vaccinated people get seriously ill due to variants. The variants are continuing to emerge, so we simply don't know yet. 

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23 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Ummmmm your vaccination history. Do you think that is a leap from being required to prove whether or not you have had Covid? Or syphilis, on and on and on..... slippery slope JB.
Jethro, I am sorry you don't get it. Frankly a lot of people here do not surprise me, you and PB do.

What I do find curious, is that the three people who have often talked of their military service would not take issue. Do you guys think that is because you were used to the military and being ordered to comply many times daily? Not being funny, just curious.
 

No one is asking for your vaccination "history".  They are requiring a specific proof of a specific vaccine in order to participate in certain high risk activities where people come together in large groups for long periods of time.  Like we do for school children.  How is what we are doing any different that requiring vaccines to attend school?  Asking for vaccine proof before attending school hasn't led to any icy slopes - last I can recall.  

And no the military ordering compliance has nothing to do with it.  Well maybe.... we were taught to do things for the greater good.  To help the guy next to you in the foxhole instead of being a selfish cunt.  To put the people and the mission first over your individual needs and wants.  So yes, maybe in that sense the military did play a role in PB and my decision making.  OR...... maybe we're just not selfish cunts like you and war-canary are.  

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I do not disagree with you out of hand Len. Although the UK seems to have seen or has more experience with both the UK strain and the South African strain and has continued to state the the vaccine is as effective with both of them as the Wuhan strain. 
So when we have the advantage of hindsight, there may be an uptick, but it would have to be a very large uptick to skew the numbers above.
It is also important to note that mRNA type vaccines are readily modifiable. That is to say were a new variant to emerge, that the vaccine in its current formulation became significantly compromised, the drug manufacturers make an incremental adjustment to stay ahead of the mutations.
The other interesting thing about what has happened with the ramping up of mRNA type vaccines is that it lends itself well to being engineered to all sorts of viruses and disease. To the point where they think they are leaps and bounds ahead of curing dreaded diseases such as MS than they were 1 year ago. When I have time I shall see if I can find the article regarding MS and the application of mRNA. The paper described mRNA manipulations having cured MS in lab animals.

I hope your Mother is or gets well soon. From what you have said in the past she falls into the senior crowd. I also trust she has multiple comorbidities. 
As I mentioned in the post above, the data currently available of who got re-infected after vaccination is not comprehensive unfortunately. CDC used to post all sorts of data and charts of those who contracted by age group and related health issues. That seems to not be the case anymore, which I find disappointing. It would be very interesting to see who after vaccination, those 5,800 cases, what other underlying criteria were present. My guess is it was people who were at a higher risk than the norm.
 

Enjoy the day.

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6 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Okay Len. Sorry your Mom was not well. Question, you say she developed pneumonia, was it Covid related? I assume it is but you did not say so specifically.

So statistically around 77 million Americans have been vaccinated. There have been 5,800 breakthrough cases. Out of those breakthrough cases, 74 people died.
The math (because we should deal in science not emotion).The number of breakthrough cases as a percentage of those vaccinated is 0.0075325% or 7.5 people per thousand. Of those 74 have died, so 0.000096104%. That equates to a 1.2758621% chance of death IF you are one of the breakthrough cases.
This is statistically insignificant and thus the statement that you have like zero chance of dying from Covid once fully vaccinated is true. Now what I could not find is what conditions lead to this people contracting and/or dying after being vaccinated.

COVID-19 Infection After Vaccine is Rare But Possible, CDC Says | BioSpace

OH MY FUCKING GOD......!!!!  IT'S NOT ABOUT CURRENT INFECTIONS OR WHETHER THE INOCULATED CAN STILL GET SICK.  IT'S ABOUT THE ABILITY OF THE VIRUS TO HAVE A LARGE ENOUGH POOL OF HOSTS SO THAT IT CAN MUTATE AND THEN ENDANGER THE ENTIRE POPULATION AGAIN AND RENDER CURRENT VACCINES MOOT!

JFC, DOES THIS NOT GET THROUGH YOUR FUCKING HEAD????

And yes, I'm yelling in all caps!  But only because you're a dense fucktard who is not getting it either because you are a) incredibly ignorant, b) you are mentally retarded or c) are being deliberately obtuse. 

I'm going to go with:  D- All of the above.  

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6 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

No one is asking for your vaccination "history".  They are requiring a specific proof of a specific vaccine in order to participate in certain high risk activities where people come together in large groups for long periods of time.  Like we do for school children.  How is what we are doing any different that requiring vaccines to attend school?  Asking for vaccine proof before attending school hasn't led to any icy slopes - last I can recall.  

And no the military ordering compliance has nothing to do with it.  Well maybe.... we were taught to do things for the greater good.  To help the guy next to you in the foxhole instead of being a selfish cunt.  To put the people and the mission first over your individual needs and wants.  So yes, maybe in that sense the military did play a role in PB and my decision making.  OR...... maybe we're just not selfish cunts like you and war-canary are.  

Thanks for the response JB.
BTW, I am no selfish cunt. LOL

So if you haven't already, I know you are a well read person, read the report I posted above. It really is very, very hard to die from Covid once vaccinated. Can you? Yep, just a statistically infinitesimal chance.  And I would bet good money those that do either have multiple health issues or took risks beyond fathomable. The point being vaccine cards are "feel good" efforts, not public health solutions.

Take care sir.

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5 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

OH MY FUCKING GOD......!!!!  IT'S NOT ABOUT CURRENT INFECTIONS OR WHETHER THE INOCULATED CAN STILL GET SICK.  IT'S ABOUT THE ABILITY OF THE VIRUS TO HAVE A LARGE ENOUGH POOL OF HOSTS SO THAT IT CAN MUTATE AND THEN ENDANGER THE ENTIRE POPULATION AGAIN AND RENDER CURRENT VACCINES MOOT!

JFC, DOES THIS NOT GET THROUGH YOUR FUCKING HEAD????

And yes, I'm yelling in all caps!  But only because you're a dense fucktard who is not getting it either because you are a) incredibly ignorant, b) you are mentally retarded or c) are being deliberately obtuse. 

I'm going to go with:  D- All of the above.  

Calm down Jethro. mRNA technology has that under control. You of all people dismissing the science in favor of emotional response.

Shocked, shocked I say.

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