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I hate that feeling when you catch the broach, but roll immediately into the round down, and you have that moment to regret catching the broach...

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20 hours ago, apophenia said:

Big Moore 24 energy:

The M24 approaching 50yrs amazing bang for the buck.  George and Ron did good.  Open transom mod sure looks nice.

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1 minute ago, LB 15 said:

From the thread title I was hoping to see a certain Hitler vid!

image.jpeg.d2226b86d89d968f4a8e84628398fc19.jpeg

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She didn't seem to be very bow up for the last 30 second or so before it all went tits. I got the impression that the bow going in and loading everything up was probably what lead to the broach in the first place.

I have no experience of the 3300, do they tend to stick the bow in?

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4 hours ago, European Bloke said:

She didn't seem to be very bow up for the last 30 second or so before it all went tits. I got the impression that the bow going in and loading everything up was probably what lead to the broach in the first place.

I have no experience of the 3300, do they tend to stick the bow in?

They’re normally more bow up but then again there was a lot of pressure in the video and the YouTube description said something about the wind being over 30kts, looks like the pole could have been a smidge further forwards and clews a bit lower but I think he gets a 10/10 for effort. The French are a bit mad when it comes to sailing on the West coast single handed in far too much wind.

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Would have been interesting to see the order of operations in the clean-up. Do you try and gybe it back or do you get the new runner on, dump any ballast then fix the spi pole once you are settled?

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If I recall correctly a few hours after that Moore video was taken, they were demasted and picked up by the coast guard.  They later went out and recovered the Moore and towed it back to Morro Bay.

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Sometimes planing with a spinnaker in a boat that can’t break out cleanly in the valleys isn’t worth it.  

.......although they can be teachable moments.  Sometimes.....


 

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12 minutes ago, JEA said:

thought the 3300 was a sprit boat and that it didn't have a Spinnaker pole.

The French will put a spinnaker pole on anything. For the Transquadra a symmetric kite is still the proven option.

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On 4/16/2021 at 4:35 PM, B dock said:

If I recall correctly a few hours after that Moore video was taken, they were demasted and picked up by the coast guard.  They later went out and recovered the Moore and towed it back to Morro Bay.

That's correct.  Winds were 30-40, seas 10-14 with occasional breaking waves.  We were on another boat close by and were on standby, circling around the Moore until the CG arrived.  It was around midnight because shit like this only ever happens in the middle of the night.  The Moore was concerned about losing radio signal with the antenna and mast being in the water and only a handheld VHF backup.  We circled around the Moore for about 3 or 4 hours until the CG showed up. The crew of the Moore stayed on the boat overnight w/ the CG on standby until the morning when they were airlifted out and the boat left to drift.  A few very sobering and scary lessons from that experience (though I'm sure not nearly as scary as being on the disabled boat).

1) It's incredibly difficult to find a boat at night in those conditions until you're almost right on top of it.  It's also incredibly easy to lose sight of the boat after you locate it and as you circle.

2) Always carry plenty of flares.  That's the only reason we were able to find the Moore despite being quite close to them.  You will probably need to use many flares, they don't stay lit for very long and losing sight of the boat happens frequently.

2) Everyone should have an AIS offshore, that would have made it much easier and safer to find the boat.  There was a Cal 40 which was also involved in assisting and they had an AIS.  We could tell where they were relatively easily which was very helpful so we didn't crash into each other as we both circled.  With the AIS it was sobering to see how close we could come to the Cal 40 and still not see them.

3) Plucking someone out of the water in those conditions would have been unbelievably difficult.  Not even sure how feasible it is to do that.

    3a) As per above, never fall overboard in those conditions.  Never.  Ever.

4)  Everyone should have an AIS offshore

5)  Everyone should have an AIS offshore

6) Bring extra dramamine or scopolamine patches if you plan to motor in circles for 3 hours in 40 knot winds and 10-14 ft seas.

7) When the CG say's "Please remain on standby, our ETA is 1 hour" they really mean 3 hours :) 

8) Not sure if I mentioned this but everyone should have an AIS offshore

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42 minutes ago, psycho tiller said:

That's correct.  Winds were 30-40, seas 10-14 with occasional breaking waves.  We were on another boat close by and were on standby, circling around the Moore until the CG arrived.  It was around midnight because shit like this only ever happens in the middle of the night.  The Moore was concerned about losing radio signal with the antenna and mast being in the water and only a handheld VHF backup.  We circled around the Moore for about 3 or 4 hours until the CG showed up. The crew of the Moore stayed on the boat overnight w/ the CG on standby until the morning when they were airlifted out and the boat left to drift.  A few very sobering and scary lessons from that experience (though I'm sure not nearly as scary as being on the disabled boat).

1) It's incredibly difficult to find a boat at night in those conditions until you're almost right on top of it.  It's also incredibly easy to lose sight of the boat after you locate it and as you circle.

2) Always carry plenty of flares.  That's the only reason we were able to find the Moore despite being quite close to them.  You will probably need to use many flares, they don't stay lit for very long and losing sight of the boat happens frequently.

2) Everyone should have an AIS offshore, that would have made it much easier and safer to find the boat.  There was a Cal 40 which was also involved in assisting and they had an AIS.  We could tell where they were relatively easily which was very helpful so we didn't crash into each other as we both circled.  With the AIS it was sobering to see how close we could come to the Cal 40 and still not see them.

3) Plucking someone out of the water in those conditions would have been unbelievably difficult.  Not even sure how feasible it is to do that.

    3a) As per above, never fall overboard in those conditions.  Never.  Ever.

4)  Everyone should have an AIS offshore

5)  Everyone should have an AIS offshore

6) Bring extra dramamine or scopolamine patches if you plan to motor in circles for 3 hours in 40 knot winds and 10-14 ft seas.

7) When the CG say's "Please remain on standby, our ETA is 1 hour" they really mean 3 hours :) 

8) Not sure if I mentioned this but everyone should have an AIS offshore

Which begs the question, I wonder if it was worth it to have to call the CG out and have boats standing by all night, just to get that video?

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52 minutes ago, Guvacine said:

Which begs the question, I wonder if it was worth it to have to call the CG out and have boats standing by all night, just to get that video?

If a mast falls in the forest and no one is there to see it did it really happen?

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2 hours ago, psycho tiller said:

That's correct.  Winds were 30-40, seas 10-14 with occasional breaking waves.  We were on another boat close by and were on standby, circling around the Moore until the CG arrived.  It was around midnight because shit like this only ever happens in the middle of the night.  The Moore was concerned about losing radio signal with the antenna and mast being in the water and only a handheld VHF backup.  We circled around the Moore for about 3 or 4 hours until the CG showed up. The crew of the Moore stayed on the boat overnight w/ the CG on standby until the morning when they were airlifted out and the boat left to drift.  A few very sobering and scary lessons from that experience (though I'm sure not nearly as scary as being on the disabled boat).

1) It's incredibly difficult to find a boat at night in those conditions until you're almost right on top of it.  It's also incredibly easy to lose sight of the boat after you locate it and as you circle.

2) Always carry plenty of flares.  That's the only reason we were able to find the Moore despite being quite close to them.  You will probably need to use many flares, they don't stay lit for very long and losing sight of the boat happens frequently.

2) Everyone should have an AIS offshore, that would have made it much easier and safer to find the boat.  There was a Cal 40 which was also involved in assisting and they had an AIS.  We could tell where they were relatively easily which was very helpful so we didn't crash into each other as we both circled.  With the AIS it was sobering to see how close we could come to the Cal 40 and still not see them.

3) Plucking someone out of the water in those conditions would have been unbelievably difficult.  Not even sure how feasible it is to do that.

    3a) As per above, never fall overboard in those conditions.  Never.  Ever.

4)  Everyone should have an AIS offshore

5)  Everyone should have an AIS offshore

6) Bring extra dramamine or scopolamine patches if you plan to motor in circles for 3 hours in 40 knot winds and 10-14 ft seas.

7) When the CG say's "Please remain on standby, our ETA is 1 hour" they really mean 3 hours :) 

8) Not sure if I mentioned this but everyone should have an AIS offshore

AIS (Transmit and Receive) is required now for most West Coast Offshore events including SoCal 300 coming up.

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On 4/16/2021 at 6:29 AM, Snowden said:

Would have been interesting to see the order of operations in the clean-up. Do you try and gybe it back or do you get the new runner on, dump any ballast then fix the spi pole once you are settled?

I like at the start, when the sail starts to luff.  He heads down rather than sheet in.  This is the smart thing to do when singlehanding.      In response to the question.  When you Chinese gybe, the trick is to remember that what was your guy is now your sheet.  So the only way to get out of it is to release this new sheet until the spinnaker is flogging in front of the boat. Then get the boat back upright and sailing downwind with the spinnaker still flogging.  then pull in the new sheet on the pole side so that you are sailing with the pole on the leeward side, then gybe back over to the pole side.   Nothing else will work.  Anything else will result in a shredded sail.  It's really important that you can reach the sheet and guy release from the tiller for this reason.

I wrote a whole paper on Better Broaching for Singlehanders that includes the Chinese gybe.  You can download it here:
https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D7718709_68878570_6221527

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On 4/16/2021 at 1:35 AM, European Bloke said:

got the impression that the bow going in and loading everything up was probably what lead to the broach in the first place.

I've had the bow of my Olson 30 underwater all the way past the mast on several occasions.  It lets me dream I'm sailing in the Southern Ocean.  

This can be the result.  But it's still more fun than staying at home to cut the lawn.

25 Broken Mast.jpg

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On 4/17/2021 at 6:55 AM, Irrational 14 said:

Spin pole is probably in 2 or 3 pieces after that.

Too deep and too on the edge to last any significant time. Less sail and a bit higher angle would be better IMO.

Suggest dropping the extension and grabbing a bloody firm grip on the tiller too - preferably with both hands. 

(Not that I've ever downhilled solo at that speed, or in those conditions!) :-)

As JL92S said above, 10/10 for effort.

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13 hours ago, Foolish said:

I've had the bow of my Olson 30 underwater all the way past the mast on several occasions.  It lets me dream I'm sailing in the Southern Ocean.  

This can be the result.  But it's still more fun than staying at home to cut the lawn.

25 Broken Mast.jpg

Looks quite the mess but possibly better than going over the side.  What is the inspection port for just aft of the mast?  Lifting eye?

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5 hours ago, bridhb said:

but possibly better than going over the side.

It actually did go over the side a little later when the local tow boat towed me in.  And because of all the rod rigging, it was sitting vertically in the water right next to my boat.  When they sped up, it would get higher and higher in the water until I radioed them to slow down (it was completely dark by this time).  I had to do this numerous times.  It was based on this that in my book I made special note that as soon as your mast falls, you should immediately tie it securely in place.

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On 4/19/2021 at 5:57 PM, Sailbydate said:

Suggest dropping the extension and grabbing a bloody firm grip on the tiller too - preferably with both hands. 

(Not that I've ever downhilled solo at that speed, or in those conditions!) :-)

As JL92S said above, 10/10 for effort.

Yes, you get better feedback from the boat that way, can sense cavitation and pre-broach loads building up better, and can respond with larger movements or pumping if needed.  However, sailing that close to the edge is almost always going to end in some kind of broach - better to back off a little (depower the kite, ease the vang on the main, etc.) because being stuck sideways in the water for 15 minutes is very slow.

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10 hours ago, VeloceSailing said:

Cool to see a SF330 with symmetric. I read somewhere that the J/99 would be available with a symmetric. Is that right? 

It is, most of the French 99 are set-up with a sym.

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On 4/20/2021 at 12:18 AM, Foolish said:

I've had the bow of my Olson 30 underwater all the way past the mast on several occasions.  It lets me dream I'm sailing in the Southern Ocean.  

This can be the result.  But it's still more fun than staying at home to cut the lawn.

25 Broken Mast.jpg

Hello brother nosediver!

 

PXL_20210227_101239571.thumb.jpg.3e64044ebee256f2077eb09d1f1019b2.jpg

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