Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I had a guy apply for the job of setting up our bar, he very seriously assured me that we needed 3 ice machines so that we would have the required array of shapes available for different cocktails...  we didn't hire that guy...

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 299
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Fuck that guy.  I stopped watching the moment he faked a serious brain injury and then couldn’t figure out why people thought that was a dick move.   He’s going to need some help when he has a real he

The insurance industry pays my sister a fair whack of money annually to generate probabilities with minimal rectal recourse. Which is not to say zero sphincter-adjacent guessing. Some of her reinsuran

My gestalt is that they intend to sew their own sails, know nothing about sail making (and somehow fear it more than welding), and something about this just seems more doable.  Like how they're sort o

Posted Images

Not sure what he's smoking, but it's got to be some good stuff. Asking folk to ante up $3m to back a short-term insurance policy to cover getting into the water.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Not sure what he's smoking, but it's got to be some good stuff. Asking folk to ante up $3m to back a short-term insurance policy to cover getting into the water.

Popcorn!

Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Not sure what he's smoking, but it's got to be some good stuff. Asking folk to ante up $3m to back a short-term insurance policy to cover getting into the water.

 

So this guys spends a decade and other people’s time and countless tens of thousands of dollars but didn’t bother to investigate how he was going to get launched?  Yeah, that should attract the research people.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, sailman said:

So this guys spends a decade and other people’s time and countless tens of thousands of dollars but didn’t bother to investigate how he was going to get launched?  Yeah, that should attract the research people.

And of course, that lack of investigation will be deeply reassuring to any wealthy watcher who might be a position to stomp up $3million for his insurance bond.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Plenty of people have a megaabuck or two because they were born with “management hair” and their parents paid for good orthodontia.  It doesn’t necessarily require above-average IQ.  

latest?cb=20170205231659

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, toddster said:

Plenty of people have a megaabuck or two because they were born with “management hair” and their parents paid for good orthodontia.  It doesn’t necessarily require above-average IQ.  

latest?cb=20170205231659

You know what?  I'm going to tell your mother-in-law you said that. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

He just trucked it the wrong way.  They would have no issue launching that in Penasco.  The yard is full of crazy steel party boats, pirate ships etc. Once it's in the water it not their problem. It is ironic as launching a boat is about as old school as you can get, someone needs to send him a copy of Fitzcaraldo...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Funny how Finland is usually considered as land of law´s and we view USA as country where one can do what he wants, in this case tables seems to be turned.

In Finland he could have just called any lifting company and boat would be on water in no time.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Pertsa said:

Funny how Finland is usually considered as land of law´s and we view USA as country where one can do what he wants, in this case tables seems to be turned.

In Finland he could have just called any lifting company and boat would be on underwater in no time.

I'm not going to hide my pessimism.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Saw there was a update the other day on their YT channel. The thing is just sitting in a yard by the water waiting on insurance. TONS of "exciting" ideas being floated around about someone with a few million bucks providing the insurance, crowd funding the insurance, buying a dry-dock that is for sale down the street, using a public boat ramp, dredging a local drainage ditch and launching in that.

I REALLY want to see this thing get in the water just to know if it floats. Personally I am rooting for the public boat ramp because I want to see it get stuck Evergiven/Suez canal style.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Zonker said:

Shame

That's the S.African "Shame". Very useful phrase. Can be totally sympathetic or mocking, depending on intonation. In my case, it is the latter.

Similar to the Aussie 'Oh dear. How sad'.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah we picked that up in the South when we passed through there. The advantage of being well travelled is you can order a beer in many languages and insult them in culturally appropriate ways.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Plasma cutter and 5/16" plate - pretty quick work to cut a round hole.

If you have one handy, and the person inside isn't in immediate danger of drowning or can't get away from the cut spot...

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

If you have one handy, and the person inside isn't in immediate danger of drowning or can't get away from the cut spot...

If they could get those people out of the Poseidon they can get them out of Seeker.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Zonker said:

Plasma cutter and 5/16" plate - pretty quick work to cut a round hole.

My 120A unit will cut through 35mm thick plate without dramas.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/21/2021 at 2:33 PM, TwoLegged said:

It will be like this, but in steel

649350667_Anacortesyachtcapsize.jpg.f60b83cdbfd5c99fd464b8d26ed60169.jpg

Funny thing. I went up to Anacortes where this thing is sitting a month or so ago. We both remarked about how un seaworthy it looked, way too top heavy for what the waterline suggests it draws. . .

A week later I see the video of it toppling at launch pop up here. No idea what architect thought that was a good idea

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Fenrir1001 said:

Funny thing. I went up to Anacortes where this thing is sitting a month or so ago. We both remarked about how un seaworthy it looked, way too top heavy for what the waterline suggests it draws. . .

A week later I see the video of it toppling at launch pop up here. No idea what architect thought that was a good idea

Granite countertops in the flybridge kitchenette.

Kid you not.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, toddster said:

Prolly not a great idea to post a pic like that if you are trying to purchase insurance for a lift.

"I think we lost it Doug...."

Well I certainly lost it about there.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 I take morbid humor from this pitiful channel, sort of like watching a shark eat its own entrails.  Why is he stuck on land exactly?  He has to come up with 3 million dollars so that a crane will lift it?  I don't understand.  Somebody trucked it over hill and dale without insurance, after all.  It's just a steel boat, I don't really see why somebody won't splash it for him, but then I'm only used to boats that work so maybe there are technicalities regarding dragons.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The port is a commercial enterprise and wants insurance on the boat or the launch; not sure which.

If it was designed by a NA and looked the part, the port would still want it insured.

If it capsizes when it is launched, they want to make sure they are not left with a wreck.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Zonker said:

The port is a commercial enterprise and wants insurance on the boat or the launch; not sure which.

If it was designed by a NA and looked the part, the port would still want it insured.

If it capsizes when it is launched, they want to make sure they are not left with a wreck.

Especially one oozing out its precious bodily fluids. 3 million should cover the cost of recovery and mitigation.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless some fairy godmother ponies up the $3million, it seems that Doug's future is to live on his boat on the land.  No voyaging, no researchers, just a pulpit on the bow from where he can rant to the assembled crowds abut the injustice of it all.

Except that there won't be any crowds.  And before long his viewers and donors will start to slip away, leaving Doug with declining income and growing attention from officials who come to give him grief about living in a land boat and about his lack of a sewer connection etc.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Three megabucks is not all that much insurance.  There must be some underwriter out there that will go for it, eventually.  After all, they insure kiteboarding instructors and demolition derbys.  

 

 

But he should still delete that last post before asking.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, toddster said:

Three megabucks is not all that much insurance.  There must be some underwriter out there that will go for it, eventually.  After all, they insure kiteboarding instructors and demolition derbys.  

Everything is insurable.  it just depends what the price is.

In early 1991, I needed to fly to Tel Aviv.  The Gulf War was underway, and Iraqi scud missiles were landing on the outskirts of the city, at Ramat Gan.  The airport at Lod was only a short distance away.

It was unclear whether things were going to get a lot heavier, so insurers were being very cautious.  El Al had some sort of Israeli govt guarantee for the risk of its flights, but other airlines were reportedly being quoted a premium of 10% of total loss value per visit.  That would have been about £10million per trip, so unsurprisingly, they stopped flying.  I flew El Al, and when we landed, everyone kissed the ground when they got off the plane.

So I reckon that somebody might insure Doug for a fee of 10%-of-total-loss.  That would be $300,000.

Or maybe some adventurous underwriters would accept a fee of 1%-of-total-loss.  That would be $30,000.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this is indeed is the situation. He can't find an underwriter who understands the risk. (capsize/sinking or whatever the port wants to prevent).

If you can understand the risk of a loss, you can insure it. But picking a number out of your ass is a recipe for losing your shirt in the insurance industry.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Zonker said:

I think this is indeed is the situation. He can't find an underwriter who understands the risk. (capsize/sinking or whatever the port wants to prevent).

If you can understand the risk of a loss, you can insure it. But picking a number out of your ass is a recipe for losing your shirt in the insurance industry.

And the underwriter can't calculate the risk without a naval architect's assessment of the design.  But no naval architect is going to sign off on stability assessments without a lot of measurement and calculations, all of which is going to take lots of time and cost lots of money. And that's if they could even be persuaded to take on a project like this, which most wouldn't.

So, AFAICS, no NA signoff doesn't just mean no insurance for a launch at this boatyard.  it may well mean no insurance for that boat ever.  If so, then even if he can get the boat launched somewhere that doesn't require insurance else, the lack of insurance  will make berthing in harbours a problem, and will screw any possibility of using the boat as a research vessel.

Zonk, how much do you think a thorough stability calc might cost?

Link to post
Share on other sites

You really need a hull shape. Laser scan ~5K. Draft survey/Inclining experiment 1K bare minimums.

No, I think lots of people get insurance on "custom builds" without a NA involved. But usually you'd need a survey as a minimum.

You generally need 3rd party liability to stay at most marinas (though they don't always check).

I seriously doubt it's future as a "research vessel" even a 501(c). It really should be a commercial passenger vessel but it can't ever pass USCG muster.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess if you insured it for what you thought a salvage would cost, on the assumption it was at high risk for tipping over on launch, that might be low hundreds of thousands of dollars, so even more expensive than figuring out up front if it was at risk of instability.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s not the value of Seeker that needs to be insured, but the potential salvage costs and operational losses suffered by the Port of Catoosa and their clients if when it all goes pear shaped at the launch.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Foiling Optimist said:

I guess if you insured it for what you thought a salvage would cost, on the assumption it was at high risk for tipping over on launch, that might be low hundreds of thousands of dollars, so even more expensive than figuring out up front if it was at risk of instability.

  

16 minutes ago, alphafb552 said:

It’s not the value of Seeker that needs to be insured, but the potential salvage costs and operational losses suffered by the Port of Catoosa and their clients if when it all goes pear shaped at the launch.

It would take only one person to be killed or seriously injured in the launch to drive those costs sky-high.  Not just in the cleanup costs and the compo and the vast legal bills, but in the port's operations being halted while investigations took place and the reputational damage to the port.

So the coverage would need to be in the millions.  If this went really badly, low hundreds of thousands wouldn't even pay for the lawyer's breakfasts.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see it rolling over at launch. He poured a metric shit ton of lead, low in the keels.  

If the thing is too heavy to float, they will just lift it back out before the water starts pouring in.

Don't get me wrong, the boat will likely have future problems: corrosion, structural, water ingress, stability under sail, etc.  But the launch itself seems to be low risk. 

That said, I completely understand why insures are staying away.

Steve

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

He did build the boat to a design, right?  He didn't design it himself?  Is it a Brent Swain ori-gasmi design?  Bilge keels make me think of him, but I didn't know if his designs got that big.  If he designed it himself then, well..."Farewell and adieu to you dear Spanish ladies..."

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, low bum said:

He did build the boat to a design, right?  He didn't design it himself?  Is it a Brent Swain ori-gasmi design?  Bilge keels make me think of him, but I didn't know if his designs got that big.  If he designed it himself then, well..."Farewell and adieu to you dear Spanish ladies..."

Design? I thought it was free-form sculpture.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, low bum said:

He did build the boat to a design, right?  He didn't design it himself?  Is it a Brent Swain ori-gasmi design?  Bilge keels make me think of him, but I didn't know if his designs got that big.  If he designed it himself then, well..."Farewell and adieu to you dear Spanish ladies..."

It was built to 100% compliance to the TLAR code of construction.

FKT

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, low bum said:

He did build the boat to a design, right?  He didn't design it himself?  Is it a Brent Swain ori-gasmi design?  Bilge keels make me think of him, but I didn't know if his designs got that big.  If he designed it himself then, well..."Farewell and adieu to you dear Spanish ladies..."

Ha ha ha. No it's not a Brent Swain. I think "design" is not the right word for this creation.

image.png.2eaa6042d061053bcbf6b1324ab2edb9.png

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

It was built to 100% compliance to the TLAR code of construction.

FKT

Arrr, 'tis a rigid standard, but one we all adhere to, I'll warrant.  I also employ the YGTI Code Book.  (You get the idea.)

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, low bum said:

Arrr, 'tis a rigid standard, but one we all adhere to, I'll warrant.  I also employ the YGTI Code Book.  (You get the idea.)

And then there's the MIL-TFD-41 standard for people with a machining background....

FKT

(Make It Like The Fucking Drawing - For Once)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I always go by the rules, thinking very few of my own troublesome intrusive thoughts.  Years ago at Fort Benning I was taught by unsympathetic men in stiff brimmed hats that I wasn't paid to think.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Panope said:

I don't see it rolling over at launch. He poured a metric shit ton of lead, low in the keels.  

If the thing is too heavy to float, they will just lift it back out before the water starts pouring in.

Don't get me wrong, the boat will likely have future problems: corrosion, structural, water ingress, stability under sail, etc.  But the launch itself seems to be low risk. 

That said, I completely understand why insures are staying away.

Steve

 

I'll add (assuming the boat gets launched) that with his boundless enthusiasm for problem solving on the fly, I predict that Doug will remedy the endless boat "issues" as fast as they occur......

.....unless Seeker goes full "Edmond Fitzgerald"

At seven PM, a main hatchway caved in, he said
"Fellas, it's been good to know ya"

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Panope said:

 

I'll add (assuming the boat gets launched) that with his boundless enthusiasm for problem solving on the fly, I predict that Doug will remedy the endless boat "issues" as fast as they occur......

.....unless Seeker goes full "Edmond Fitzgerald"

At seven PM, a main hatchway caved in, he said
"Fellas, it's been good to know ya"

 

He's never going to remedy the fact that it was built, not designed, and no naval architect anywhere is ever going to certify it as seaworthy. A number here have commented on how his scantlings are quite inadequate. Very very difficult to fix that.

His chance of getting insurance on something that big with no approved design is pretty much zero. Who'd take the risk?

Doug, if he can get it launched, and likely he will, can probably correct trim issues and maybe DWL issues but if there are serious stability issues - that's going to be a big problem. No way to fix that short of hauling it back out and lowering the COG. Especially if the boat as-launched is overweight so simply adding more ballast isn't an option.

NB: I'm not saying any of these things are fact or even likely, just pointing out that there are some potential problems that won't be easily fixable short of major reconstruction.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

He's never going to remedy the fact that it was built, not designed, and no naval architect anywhere is ever going to certify it as seaworthy. A number here have commented on how his scantlings are quite inadequate. Very very difficult to fix that.

His chance of getting insurance on something that big with no approved design is pretty much zero. Who'd take the risk?

Doug, if he can get it launched, and likely he will, can probably correct trim issues and maybe DWL issues but if there are serious stability issues - that's going to be a big problem. No way to fix that short of hauling it back out and lowering the COG. Especially if the boat as-launched is overweight so simply adding more ballast isn't an option.

NB: I'm not saying any of these things are fact or even likely, just pointing out that there are some potential problems that won't be easily fixable short of major reconstruction.

FKT

For sure, no certifications.

Scantlings:  Skins are plenty thick.  He can add stiffeners as things start to crack/buckle.  Again, this assumes the boat stays afloat.

Stability: No problem. Remove masts. Add sponsors.  Hell, he would add outriggers if that is what it takes.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks to me like he is stuck, living on the boat in the harbor parking lot will get old quickly. Imagine winter on that thing, or next summer.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Munz said:

"who would take the risk?"

Nah,

 

You's and Doug obviously haven't heard about northen reef:  http://northernreef.net/

 

Seems like they're running low on ferro boats & 1st of July bonfires to insure.... 

Headquartered in Montevideo, Uruguay. What could possibly go wrong?

Link to post
Share on other sites

"Headquartered in Montevideo, Uruguay. What could possibly go wrong?"

Nothing, until he actually needs to make a claim, but as I understand he only needs a bit of paper so he can launch the boat, not make a claim...  

I thought insurance was invented to keep us in (relative) poverty and to keep pen-pushers off our backs, am I missing something?

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/29/2021 at 1:15 PM, Zonker said:

I think this is indeed is the situation. He can't find an underwriter who understands the risk. (capsize/sinking or whatever the port wants to prevent).

If you can understand the risk of a loss, you can insure it. But picking a number out of your ass is a recipe for losing your shirt in the insurance industry.

The insurance industry pays my sister a fair whack of money annually to generate probabilities with minimal rectal recourse. Which is not to say zero sphincter-adjacent guessing. Some of her reinsurance work covers financial 'products' which are difficult to understand and have never been floated before, having themselves been pulled out of some investment banker's hindmost orifice.

"Hey actuary! Give me an executive risk assessment of Dogecoin as a tranche asset for our Forex portfolios."

"You're using cocaine again, aren't you? Spilled some on your tie."

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 5 weeks later...
5 hours ago, sailman said:

Is this circus act actually living on his boat in a parking lot waiting for other people to cough up a few million?

Shurely you meant "this heroic freeman is standing up to The System"?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, sailman said:

Is this circus act actually living on his boat in a parking lot waiting for other people to cough up a few million?

Temporarily Embarrassed Voyager.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Probably just the IRS. Certainly no hominids.

The port authorities have done a pretty good job, really. Or perhaps one could list that one as onanism for not actually checking if they'd launch BEFORE turning up...

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

The port authorities have done a pretty good job, really. Or perhaps one could list that one as onanism for not actually checking if they'd launch BEFORE turning up...

FKT

Dude…. The great Port of Cattoosa would obviously launch the important research vessel Seeker

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Show of hands that this vessel never splashes - and predictions on what the end result will be? I mean,  I figured it would at least get launched and maybe live out it's days tied to the bank of a slough or creek somewhere

Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Latadjust said:

Show of hands that this vessel never splashes - and predictions on what the end result will be? I mean,  I figured it would at least get launched and maybe live out it's days tied to the bank of a slough or creek somewhere

I reckon that if there was going to be a way through the impasse, it would probably have been found by now.  At this stage, Doug has lost momentum and credibility, and it's hard to regain them.  Not impossible, but the likelihood is receding.

So my hand goes up for "never splashes" as the most likely outcome.

Then, eventually, some authority will tire of the Seeker being a permanent fixture on the hard, and the grinding wheels of legal enforcement start turning towards the boat's seizure ... which will probably lead to its destruction, because the boat will never be certified.

1295413684_Enniscoroneglampingvillage.png.921e49d6df0b147cf79e034bf99da8e7.pngThe only way i see the boat escaping destruction is if it is repurposed as a wacky land-based feature somewhere, possibly along the lines of Quirky Nights Glamping Village in Enniscrone, County Sligo -- where the accommodation is provided in junk such as old railway carriages, a Boeing 767, and various yachts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Al Paca said:

Doug is a hack. I think the boat will get launched at some point but end up in a back water marina rusting away. 

I hope he does get launched. OK I don't have a high opinion of him or that boat 'design' but even so - it was a hell of an effort and it would be good to see the poor thing actually get wet.

FKT

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I hope he does get launched. OK I don't have a high opinion of him or that boat 'design' but even so - it was a hell of an effort and it would be good to see the poor thing actually get wet.

FKT

I agree

I feel sorry for him and his helpers

And.....he is good at making films

 

D

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

 it was a hell of an effort 

 

Hot Rod and the Viking put a motorcycle in the cockpit.  Now THAT’S an effort. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This "Anarchy" community really hates anything non-mainstream doesn't it!

If he's got the tenacity to get as far as he has I don't doubt he'll get to the water. The insurance thing is, with hindsight,  an obvious oversight and as mentioned by others will have a hangover beyond launch. 

A stability book and structural review won't cost the earth and I recon there's quite a good Youtube income stream. 

I don't think Doug's stupid or miss-guided in any way.  Anti-establishment definitely, Anarchistic - maybe!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I stopped watching his videos a long time ago, but based on those and what he has accomplished so far, I am surprised he has not made plans to launch it himself. He got the boat onto the trailer and to the yard, so why not off the trailer and onto a cobbled together slipway? It would require a like minded waterside property owner and be dangerous, but that has not stopped him in the past.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Gone Ballistic said:

A stability book and structural review won't cost the earth

You have to weigh the beast now on land or do a weight estimate which would be very time consuming. You have no starting point other than Doug and his followers just guessing the displacement.  You don't know the shape because no proper plans so you have to do a laser scan. About 3K + 1K to make the cloud into a hull model.

You can't float it and take draft marks to determine displacement without a hull shape (and the Port won't let you launch it w/o insurance so Catch 22)

Structural review - insurers don't care. If it's sort of boat shaped and a surveyor says the structure looks OK they'll probably take your money. It wouldn't pass anything like a Class rule review or ISO pleasure craft. The internal structure is a joke in many places.

 

2 hours ago, Gone Ballistic said:

This "Anarchy" community really hates anything non-mainstream doesn't it!

I think we hate people building boat-like objects with no real "design" to them.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, steele said:

I stopped watching his videos a long time ago, but based on those and what he has accomplished so far, I am surprised he has not made plans to launch it himself. He got the boat onto the trailer and to the yard, so why not off the trailer and onto a cobbled together slipway? It would require a like minded waterside property owner and be dangerous, but that has not stopped him in the past.

Public boat ramp and a wrecker? Just weld on a steerable pair of front wheels, unpin the trailer, and winch it down the ramp until it floats off. Hell, leave the trailer strapped/welded to the boat. Not likely to detract from performance, and it makes hauling out easier.

We've all seen dumber shit done at public boat launches, and if you give a tow truck driver enuf money, beer, and liability waivers, they tend to be game for anything.

Link to post
Share on other sites