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I would say where the waterline meets the boat depends on how deep the water is.

Fuck that guy.  I stopped watching the moment he faked a serious brain injury and then couldn’t figure out why people thought that was a dick move.   He’s going to need some help when he has a real he

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Don't get me wrong,  I want this vessel to be launched, if for no other reason than to quench the fire that burns in all of our collective armchair naval architectural beings, as we have all formed our own opinions of its seaworthyness, and of course because we all love boats in general and have a little wild assed guess in us that sort of envies this guy's bravado.

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1 hour ago, Latadjust said:

Don't get me wrong,  I want this vessel to be launched, if for no other reason than to quench the fire that burns in all of our collective armchair naval architectural beings, as we have all formed our own opinions of its seaworthyness, and of course because we all love boats in general and have a little wild assed guess in us that sort of envies this guy's bravado.

Also the most entertaining era was about to start:

Boat handling a ~60 ton 75' vessel and learning the ropes, in restricted waterways ..... presumably learning from a full crew of experienced hands.  

All while acting as engineer shaking down an untested  power train cobbled together from a variety of sources.

A steep learning curve that would make some entertaining films with a change of scenery now and again. Lot's of interaction with various officials expected.

If it gets into the water I suspect that for various reasons, running out of money will limit the extent of the adventure..

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9 hours ago, toddster said:

"B" might not be a bad option.  They barge scrap metal down the river around here, so it must be somewhat economical.  

Straight from build to scrap without the intervening joy/terror steps. Saves a lot of time.

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On 11/11/2021 at 1:02 PM, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Another time-honoured cost-saving measure is breaming.  Have at it. :-)

”Breaming The Vessel At Night”

 

Ebenezer Wake Cook

 (British, 1843–1926)

93136F42-F6DB-401F-B6FF-575F4B47A2D6.jpeg

I'm so jealous of sailors in the North Atlantic.  Not only do they have all those wonderful destinations at their back door but they have those amazing high tides that allow you to keep your boat scrubbed off and painted yourself.  

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Somewhere along the line he must have started wondering about all up weight and he took measurements from the hull and cobbed together a 3D CAD model using SketchUp in the most inaccurate manner possible. Living proof on one of the oldest theorems in CAD design; "Garbage In, Garbage Out"

    Please post that blog episode if you can find it.

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12 minutes ago, low bum said:

What is it about junk rig that draws these people?  That and schooners.  What do they see in it?  What itch does it scratch?  

Some people march to a different drummer.

Others just hear voices in their head.

It isn't always easier--or even possible--to differentiate between the two.

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18 minutes ago, weightless said:

Colvin's Gazelle. One of the prettiest sail plans ever drawn. IRL... But, lovely on paper.

https://junkrigassociation.org/resources/SiteUploads/20181117/Gazelle_splan.jpg?token=7d8136bc608b1560454880e1a1da1836

I've sailed one of those that a friend had built. There is a lot of string to adjust if you want to sail  them even remotely efficiently.

From a beam reach on it was fine, except for the leeway. Any closer to the wind? Fuggettabouddit!

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My gestalt is that they intend to sew their own sails, know nothing about sail making (and somehow fear it more than welding), and something about this just seems more doable.  Like how they're sort of afraid to fall over sideways so bilge keels make inherent sense.  There's just a suite of technologies that are appealing to landsmen who intend to build a boat in their barn in the middle of Indiana.  Big ornate steering wheels (with all the attendant steering complexity) rather than tiller.  A motor scavenged from non-marine sources.  Excessive ornamentation of the Polynesian Brothel school. 

But then people do the same with farming - weird useless animals (llamas for god's sake), silly hats, bizarre plants not suited for the climate, attempts to live "off grid" at vastly greater expense and complexity than just getting electricity.  The quest for a fantastical "other self".  What might have been.  It's fascinating, really.

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3 hours ago, low bum said:

What is it about junk rig that draws these people?  That and schooners.  What do they see in it?  What itch does it scratch?  

Ahem. *I* have a steel junk rigged schooner. I built it myself.

And in point of fact, I did sew my own sails. In fact I'm in the process of making a new, smaller mainsail as we're usually way over-canvassed down here.

FKT

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I skimmed through a couple of his last videos, a month or so ago.  At one point, they were loading up a collection of long, apparently heavy, steel pipes, and I'd swear he said those were the battens! :unsure:  But then, I know absolutely nothing about rigging a steel junk.  Not sure which one of is is ahead. :lol:

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47 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Ahem. *I* have a steel junk rigged schooner. I built it myself.

And in point of fact, I did sew my own sails. In fact I'm in the process of making a new, smaller mainsail as we're usually way over-canvassed down here.

FKT

QED?

:-)

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Just now, AnIdiot said:

QED?

:-)

Shrug. If I cared about the opinions of strangers, I'd not have built a boat at all. I'd just have bought the plastic thingy that looks like everyone else's plastic thingy, and then paid even more for people to fix the shit and make the bits that I lacked the training, talent and persistence to make for myself.

What major, year-spanning project physical structure(s) have you built? I suspect the answer will be a nice round number...

FKT

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Just now, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Shrug. If I cared about the opinions of strangers, I'd not have built a boat at all. I'd just have bought the plastic thingy that looks like everyone else's plastic thingy, and then paid even more for people to fix the shit and make the bits that I lacked the training, talent and persistence to make for myself.

What major, year-spanning project physical structure(s) have you built? I suspect the answer will be a nice round number...

FKT

I'm just winding you up  FKT... hence the smiley...

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On 11/11/2021 at 9:44 PM, sailman said:

Did he ever try and run a weight study or float plan for that thing?

Maybe 2 years back.. hard to remember now, and waaaaay too far along to make it in any way useful, he did a “weight study”.  This was, as you would well expect, “ahhh Thad fine… call it 4000 Pounds there, let’s add even more lead here etc etc.  bottom line is that he has absolutely no clue about the weight and COG.  

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Just now, AnIdiot said:

I'm just winding you up  FKT... hence the smiley...

Yeah it's all good - been here lots of times before.

If I ever get bored with the junk rig I'll put a ketch rig on the hull. I've got the sailplans for a ketch rig and a gaff schooner rig already. Steve on PANOPE has a different rig again, same hull form. As I built all the spars etc it's only the time investment needed to change a rig.

The junk rig has a lot going for it but beating to weather isn't one of those things.

OTOH we can and have taken off the 380 sq ft main in less than a minute when we came round an island and found the wind had doubled in strength and we were way over-canvassed.

WRT SV SEEKER, I want to see it in the water. His rig, dunno, I kind of skipped over most of his vids other then the metalworking ones.

FKT

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

 

What major, year-spanning project physical structure(s) have you built? I suspect the answer will be a nice round number...

FKT

Is this some sort of contest??  Fuck you. 

Prick. 

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4 hours ago, Al Paca said:

Is this some sort of contest??  Fuck you. 

Prick. 

Touchy.....

I find it entertaining reading the opinions of people who've never built anything major themselves putting shit on those who have. My usual response is to ask them what they've built so I can make some sort of judgement on what their opinions are worth. I'm always happy to listen & learn from those who've done stuff personally, regardless of whether it's their profession or their after hours activities.

And your response isn't exactly unusual. Generally I can guess why.

Note that I wasn't the one who started this exchange and also note I haven't exactly been polite about what Doug has done, or how he's done it.

Nobody here, AFAIK, has personally taken on anything like the size of project that Doug took on. I give him full respect for that. As for the junk rig, shrug, if you consider windward performance is the one thing that is overwhelmingly important on a sailing rig, don't build one.

Been well over 700 of Tom Colvin's Gazelles built. Most of them junk rigged.

FKT

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I get the admiration for all the work Doug put into Seeker.  But in my view, that is more than offset by his failure to either learn boat design or hire some who has the skills.  Diligent labour to a useless plan is not virtuous and not admirable; it's folly.

Even worse, Doug built that boat with the labour and money of a lot of other people, who trusted his plan.  They have been used.

And any last smidgin of respect I might have had for him is offset by that fake head injury stunt.   That earns him the rank of pure prick.

So I wish him not well.  I hope the boat remains unlaunched, or falls over when launched, or suffers some other misfortune ... 'cos that obnoxiously cocky man is owed a fall.

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6 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

I get the admiration for all the work Doug put into Seeker.  But in my view, that is more than offset by his failure to either learn boat design or hire some who has the skills.  Diligent labour to a useless plan is not virtuous and not admirable; it's folly.

Even worse, Doug built that boat with the labour and money of a lot of other people, who trusted his plan.  They have been used.

And any last smidgin of respect I might have had for him is offset by that fake head injury stunt.   That earns him the rank of pure prick.

So I wish him not well.  I hope the boat remains unlaunched, or falls over when launched, or suffers some other misfortune ... 'cos that obnoxiously cocky man is owed a fall.

Well said.  I agree with FKT’s general sentiment about folks being critical without any skills to back up their talk, however Two Legged has it right.  
 

When the time comes to explain hubris to my kids, I will direct them to SVseeker.   

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On 11/13/2021 at 2:06 PM, low bum said:

*snip* Like how they're sort of afraid to fall over sideways so bilge keels make inherent sense. *snip*

Hey now... my twin keels are perfectly functional, thankyouverymuch. Every year we haul out (I'm the only sailboat in a club full of power boaters), we spend a significant amount of time blocking their keels, adjusting heights, setting up the stands just right. My Centaur? Drop her down on these here four 6" blocks, and get to the next boat, we're done. One little stand up front on the off chance two someones walk up to the bow at the same time.

Some day, when I'm off this godfersakin' river and in proper Northeast US tidal zones, I'll be able to find a serene hidey-hole with a decent bottom, let the tide go out, and scrub down without needing to spend hard earned money on a haul out.

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1 hour ago, The Lucky One said:

Hey now... my twin keels are perfectly functional, thankyouverymuch. Every year we haul out (I'm the only sailboat in a club full of power boaters), we spend a significant amount of time blocking their keels, adjusting heights, setting up the stands just right. My Centaur? Drop her down on these here four 6" blocks, and get to the next boat, we're done. One little stand up front on the off chance two someones walk up to the bow at the same time.

Some day, when I'm off this godfersakin' river and in proper Northeast US tidal zones, I'll be able to find a serene hidey-hole with a decent bottom, let the tide go out, and scrub down without needing to spend hard earned money on a haul out.

The thing that really turned me off bilge keels was the total PITA factor cleaning & applying antifouling between them.

Not that I've ever done it, mind, but the thought was sufficient. Then I watched one of the White Spot Pirate vids where she was doing exactly this on a sand flat in Panama (I think) and thought to myself - yep, THAT is something better avoided.

FKT

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3 hours ago, steele said:

Keep in mind if you have bilge keels and decent tides you don't necessarily need anitfoul. A quick scrub every few weeks at low tide is fine. This does not apply to Seeker which is way too big.

Still a right PITA cleaning between the keels. Dunno about you, I'm not at all keen on lying on a tarp on top of mud/sand and scrubbing shit overhead.

I'll just keep my shoal draft hull. I can still careen it easily if I need to.

FKT

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23 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

The thing that really turned me off bilge keels was the total PITA factor cleaning & applying antifouling between them.

*snip*

FKT

One of the benefits of growing up as a farm kid. Hauled out on dry ground, it's not comfortable work, but it's not all that hard and doesn't take all that long. Ain't half as bad as animal husbandry.

Being in freshwater now, hardly anything grows between the keels anyway... not enough sunlight, even for the scum.

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19 hours ago, The Lucky One said:

One of the benefits of growing up as a farm kid. Hauled out on dry ground, it's not comfortable work, but it's not all that hard and doesn't take all that long. Ain't half as bad as animal husbandry.

Being in freshwater now, hardly anything grows between the keels anyway... not enough sunlight, even for the scum.

Yeah agreed - I've done the 'dig the tractor out of the bog your idiot FIL drove it into' too.

And other stuff on farms. Still co-own a 600 acre place.

I can see the benefits of bilge keel boats especially for areas with big tidal ranges. I just don't personally want to deal with the hassle. My Colvin Witch hull is easy to dry out in any sort of tidal range using a leg or 2.

FKT

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I can attest to the unpleasantness, though always only do in winter when the boat is on its trailer in the yard and therefore raised. No matter how you protect yourself,  you will have anti foul all over which can't be good. We never have to scrub mid season though - and nothing much grows between the keels as there is less light. I once - and only once - scrubbed a 19' boat on a slip between tides... never again.

The other part to remember is that most bilge keelers  have iron keels, so the really hard part is keeping the inside surfaces of the keels in good nick - prepping and painting.  The anti foul is a lot easier after. I doubt the bit between the keels is ever as well prepped as the outside for most of us - they are cruisers after all.

And yes, performance suffers, but it means a lot of us can have a boat who might not be able to justify the cost if depending on marinas. My mooring costs me €100 a year - it would cost me €3500 or more if I kept my boat 3 miles down the coast at the nearest marina. You  can easily get performance, comfort, speed, range or whatever metric you want back with a bigger boat for the boat buck savings you make. Or simply have a boat in the first place.

BB

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On 11/13/2021 at 12:21 PM, low bum said:

What is it about junk rig that draws these people?  That and schooners.  What do they see in it?  What itch does it scratch?  

Junk rig comes with a promise that a small crew can sail a big boat. "See, reefing is as easy as adjusting  a window shade." Also a big rig can be built without all the expensive metal things: wire, winches,  etc.

Does it live up to the promise? Maybe sometimes but not always.

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8 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

Junk rig comes with a promise that a small crew can sail a big boat. "See, reefing is as easy as adjusting  a window shade." Also a big rig can be built without all the expensive metal things: wire, winches,  etc.

Does it live up to the promise? Maybe sometimes but not always.

My understanding (based solely on reading, with zero practical experience) was that junk rigs all have poor windward performance, and often very poor windward ability unless they use cambered panels ... but that the easier handling was delivered more consistently.

Semi, are you saying that the handling gains are heavily reliant on good implementation?  And/or that the concept doesn't scale well?

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9 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

Junk rig comes with a promise that a small crew can sail a big boat. "See, reefing is as easy as adjusting  a window shade." Also a big rig can be built without all the expensive metal things: wire, winches,  etc.

Does it live up to the promise? Maybe sometimes but not always.

Reefing is easy.

Doing without the expensive metal bits, not so much IME. Especially the decent engine & prop.

But - I'm not a purist. If I want to go to windward higher than I can sail (which isn't saying much as I'm a shit sailboat driver) I crank up the diesel and point as high as I want.

I like my junk rig but the main reason I built it was because I could and I wanted something different to play with. If I ever get tired of it I'll simply build a different rig and sew more sails. I have 3 other sail plans.

FKT

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17 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Semi, are you saying that the handling gains are heavily reliant on good implementation?  And/or that the concept doesn't scale well?

I'm just ignorantly repeating what I've read here and there from boat writers.

Phil Bolger had a short chapter on what he called the Chinese Lug Rig in his book 100 Small Boat Rigs (103 in the second edition). After describing how it works, he concluded thusly:

Though complex to describe, the rig is simple to work. Sail area and height can be adjusted continuously without stopping the boat or changing course. The sail is tamed of practically every vice that other types of sail are addicted to. There are no heavy stresses anywhere in the rig. It has to be watched for chafe on a long passage, but less so than with most rigs.

The penalty is that it's almost impossible to make these sails take up a good aerodynamic shape, especially when the sail is on the weather side of the mast. The tendency in modern Chinese luggers has been to reduce the area ahead of the mast, which may help somewhat. ... A strong Chinese lugger can be given a big rig because it's both docile and very quick to reduce; therefore it can be driven hard and good passages can sometimes be made in spite of its apparent inefficiency.

 

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Seeker has a new video - the winch mechanism for the dinghy is evading his best efforts.  Trimming first one side, then the other, the mustache is somehow never even.  My god, how much does that dinghy weigh?  What kind of engines does it have?  At the end he admires the sunset saying you don't have to be in the water to enjoy that.  Almost poignant, actually.

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The dinghy has a VW diesel engine coupled to a water jet. The thing does not want to plane.

 

From his website:

"Jack Carson who drew the lines for the hull of Seeker, gave us a model of  a tender with a deep V hull, well suited for choppy water and surf."

 

That deep V now has boxy skirts added to it to correct stability issues.

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57 minutes ago, Voiled said:

The dinghy has a VW diesel engine coupled to a water jet. The thing does not want to plane.

What a kluge.  Just the sort of mess you want to fail on you when you're trying to put out a second anchor an hour before a storm hits.  Well, the winch will fail when they need it the most so it won't ever need to actually operate as a dinghy.  Might make a convenient stern mounted bath tub.

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32 minutes ago, low bum said:

What a kluge.

The dinghy now has some sort of sidewheels because of stability issues and it was designed by the same guy that drew up Seeker. That's even more concerning to me than his choice of propulsion system.

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53 minutes ago, Voiled said:

The dinghy now has some sort of sidewheels because of stability issues and it was designed by the same guy that drew up Seeker. That's even more concerning to me than his choice of propulsion system.

Neither worries me, 'cos a) Seeker won't be launched, barring a miracle; b) if the miracle does happen, I want Doug to get some big payback for that fake head injury

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Maybe it should be a different thread, seems a shame to associate a perfectly good rig with Seeker. 

But for those interested in the details, the Junk Rig Association put up a series of videos recently on the basics which are decent:

 

 

 

There’s another anarchist in NZ who converted his CO26:

Looking at getting new self-tailers currently; Marconi ain’t cheap.. not going to lie, the concept appeals.. 

Unfortunately you generally need a new mast, obviating cost savings. 

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8 hours ago, robtoujours said:

………….seems a shame to associate a perfectly good rig with Seeker. 

 

Nah, it’s a perfect match. A junk rig is around 5 times the weight of a conventional rig due to the boomletts and not being able to use spreaders/lowers on the mast. Probably ten times heavier if you take its inefficiently in to account.

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1 hour ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Nah, it’s a perfect match. A junk rig is around 5 times the weight of a conventional rig due to the boomletts and not being able to use spreaders/lowers on the mast. Probably ten times heavier if you take its inefficiently in to account.

Be nice if you actually knew what you were talking about.

My junk rig has spreaders and was designed that way.

The rig is heavier, yes. That's a feature. The sail ALWAYS comes down when reefed and all you need do is slack the halyard. You can also reef up one or 2 panels by taking up on the lazy jacks. Doing this reduces sail area fast while keeping sail area up high and improving visibility. I do it quite a bit if I only want to reduce area by a panel or 2.

Look, one can go on forever about the efficiency/inefficiency of different rig options. Nobody ever changes their minds based on some internet bullshit arguments. You build/sail whatever you want.

One of the attractions is, you can fully rig a 12m boat with standing & running rigging and a full suit of sails for substantially less than $10K, using all new materials. I've done it so that figure is accurate in AUD. It won't point as high as a marconi type rig, but you won't be getting a marconi type rig for less than 5X that price either.

Off the wind, there probably isn't a lot in it.

FKT

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1 hour ago, t.rex said:

What material do you use for battens ?

Can you put enough tension on the battens to force some curvature in an otherwise flat shape?

thanks

I'm using Alaskan yellow cedar, clear grade, with unidirectional f/g tape in epoxy on both sides.

Mine is a Colvin junk schooner rig, double sheeted, with the batten sheetlets set 450mm in from the leach. If you've enough wind, you get curvature. If you've too much wind or a really bad uncontrolled jibe, you break battens. Though we haven't on this rig so far.

I made the current set of battens thinner because I'm pretty sure the first set are a bit too stiff. What happens when you run the unidirectional glass of course.

People have used all sorts of things for battens. Depends on where you live & what you can get.

Some of the junk rig guys sew cambered sails to supposedly improve their upwind performance. Makes the sailmaking more complex and the actual sail physically weaker IMO and I'm not doing it. If I want better upwind performance I have a 36HP diesel, a 3:1 reduction gearbox and a 22" feathering propellor.

I'm currently working on a new, smaller mainsail I hope to have finished in another couple of weeks. The current big main is more sail than we like to deal with here and I got tired of sailing with 2 pretty much permanent reefs in it.

FKT

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26 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Some of the junk rig guys sew cambered sails to supposedly improve their upwind performance. Makes the sailmaking more complex and the actual sail physically weaker IMO and I'm not doing it. If I want better upwind performance I have a 36HP diesel, a 3:1 reduction gearbox and a 22" feathering propellor.

To my mind, the poor upwind ability makes a motor boat with auxiliary sails, rather than a sailing boat with auxiliary motor.  That evidently works for some people, and good for them in finding what suits them ... but for those of us who value upwind ability, it makes the junk a no-no.

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So there’s a new post out of our boy on YouTube. Seams his “ new wife” made some fitted sheets out of plastic for the bunks. There’re really living the life.  In a parking lot. 

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36 minutes ago, Al Paca said:

So there’s a new post out of our boy on YouTube. Seams his “ new wife” made some fitted sheets out of plastic for the bunks. There’re really living the life.  In a parking lot. 

Well, at least in the parking lot there is a slightly lower chance of anyone cutting themself open on those sharps above the top bunks.

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4 hours ago, Voiled said:

Those mermaids he likes so much are not only above the bunks but also strewn across his "cargo hold" at brain level. You have to cross that wide open hold before getting into your bunk, rolling seas or not.

Lethal, and utterly mad.  In the video he talks of people "taking personal responsibility" by not going near the mermaids in rough weather.  That's a bit difficult when they are everywhere ... and even in good weather, anyone in those top bunks who sits up in bed will get a face full of sharp metal.

What about him taking some personal responsibility by not festooning his boat with safety hazards?

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

Imagine getting your face impaled on those mermaid’s breasts or carving off a chunk of shoulder meat.

Maybe Doug has grown weary of the 'Faked Head Injury' criticism an is laying himself out for the real thing?

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40 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Lethal, and utterly mad.  In the video he talks of people "taking personal responsibility" by not going near the mermaids in rough weather.  That's a bit difficult when they are everywhere ... and even in good weather, anyone in those top bunks who sits up in bed will get a face full of sharp metal.

What about him taking some personal responsibility by not festooning his boat with safety hazards?

Those openings in the mermaids are perfectly made grab handles.  They even bevel down to a narrow opening at the ends so that when you slip while holding they'll grab your finger like a jam cleat and rip it off.  Amazing engineering!  I bet they double as beer bottle openers too.

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2 hours ago, IStream said:

Also, I'm sure he did an FEA study of those ribs and they're sufficiently strong despite the size and proximity of all those lightening holes. /s

When I first saw them I pointed out that they were in fact, useless due to the lightening holes. They'll trip/collapse under any load. (This is also the wrong sort of boat to be using lightening holes in the frames - everything else weighs a ton)

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4 hours ago, IStream said:

Also, I'm sure he did an FEA study of those ribs and they're sufficiently strong despite the size and proximity of all those lightening holes. /s

I just assume that the mermaids are spherical cows at first approximation- wait, was that a different thread?

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

But Zonk, they look cool. Useless frames that look cool are much better than no frames at all.

 

 

 

Again, /s, for the slow ones in the back.

What are you going to lash the cattle to with those absent?

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2 hours ago, Zonker said:

When I first saw them I pointed out that they were in fact, useless due to the lightening holes. They'll trip/collapse under any load. (This is also the wrong sort of boat to be using lightening holes in the frames - everything else weighs a ton)

Yep. Now if he'd welded a flat bar to the inner side to resist buckling & collapse, maybe they'd have done something. Not a lot, but something.

As for the mermaids, things like that are a sure sign the builder hasn't spent any time actually at sea. I do to considerable trouble to NOT have any sharp edges or pointy bits because I'm not all that fond of bruises, funnily enough.

FKT

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When you have that much area cut away you will not have enough shear area. The web will buckle under load - the frame will "trip"

On big deep frames in ships we weld in "tripping brackets" - just little pieces of flat bar to join the web and the flange. These are at regular intervals to stop the deep beam flange from twisting and the frame failing.

This is an example of bad design with the lightening holes of the deep beam being too big and too close to the deck But it's a good example of a tripping bracket.

image.png.13ca7e14e2a12710fe30f8fbd339a546.png

Generally lightening holes should be in the middle of the web and no more than 1/3 the total depth of the beam/frame.

 

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57 minutes ago, Zonker said:

spherical cows IN A VACUUM. That have no mass.

So then you don't have to worry about hitting them.

You shouldn’t hit them anyway. They aren’t that bad…just because Ish wants to lash out at them and fetter them to bondage. 

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3 hours ago, Zonker said:

When I first saw them I pointed out that they were in fact, useless due to the lightening holes. They'll trip/collapse under any load. (This is also the wrong sort of boat to be using lightening holes in the frames - everything else weighs a ton)

 

5 minutes ago, Zonker said:

When you have that much area cut away you will not have enough shear area. The web will buckle under load - the frame will "trip"

Zonk, man, all this engineering shit just shows you're just a victim of The System.    Doug here has chosen Freedom, and he's gonna show you how a Real Man makes a Real Boat.   Watch and learn, eh?

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1 hour ago, robtoujours said:

Never really watched any videos, but wow, seeing those knees etc - yup, he’s retarded 

Yeah, but he's a confident retard and that'll take you far in today's world.

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

You shouldn’t hit them anyway. They aren’t that bad…just because Ish wants to lash out at them and fetter them to bondage. 

I'm not interested in bondage unless it improves the taste of the meat.

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27 minutes ago, IStream said:

Yeah, but he's a confident retard and that'll take you far in today's world.

Indeed.  Doug's confidence has taken him all the way to the glorious position of having an unseaworthy pseudo-boat that has become a permanent fixture in a car park.

Please try to restrain your jealousy

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3 hours ago, Zonker said:

When you have that much area cut away you will not have enough shear area. The web will buckle under load - the frame will "trip"

On big deep frames in ships we weld in "tripping brackets" - just little pieces of flat bar to join the web and the flange. These are at regular intervals to stop the deep beam flange from twisting and the frame failing.

This is an example of bad design with the lightening holes of the deep beam being too big and too close to the deck But it's a good example of a tripping bracket.

image.png.13ca7e14e2a12710fe30f8fbd339a546.png

Generally lightening holes should be in the middle of the web and no more than 1/3 the total depth of the beam/frame.

 

That's what hanging knees are for in traditional wooden  boat construction. They tie the deck beams to the frames to reduce wracking.

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