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"Gooseneck? More like Loose-neck." Help


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Gooseneck seems... looser than it should. Is this normal?

By gooseneck, I mean the ~1" square bar poking out of the forward end of the boom, which links the boom to the gooseneck slider/car on my '69 Santana 27.

Instead of being tight/fixed in place, the gooseneck is loose - able to pivot/wiggle 2-4" (measured at the far end).

Rather than being screwed into the sidewall, the boom-end fitting (cap?) that carries the gooseneck is riveted in, so I can't access the back end to check/tighten anything.

Caveat: it has been loose like this for years, and handled heavy use (beating into 25 knots) fine, so I had kind of put off thinking about it longer than I should. (When it loads up (in use), it loads into a static position, rather than slopping/banging around).

But. With kids aboard now and doing longer trips, I'm looking at all the systems aboard with a more critical eye.

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Goosenecks are a very popular failure point. A gooseneck from '69 is guaranteed to be worn out. Some are designed to rotate. Some are not. None should have much play laterally or vertically. You might need to be a bit ruthless is a safety check given the rivets and certain corrosion.

Failure of a gooseneck is always a disaster...you might be surprised at the level of calamity and possible injury aboard afterwards.

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7 minutes ago, Borracho said:

Goosenecks are a very popular failure point. A gooseneck from '69 is guaranteed to be worn out. Some are designed to rotate. Some are not. None should have much play laterally or vertically. You might need to be a bit ruthless is a safety check given the rivets and certain corrosion.

Failure of a gooseneck is always a disaster...you might be surprised at the level of calamity and possible injury aboard afterwards.

Right.

I've had other components in the system go, so I've had a taste of what it can do - hence giving it closer scrutiny now, even though it "works."

Assuming there is an issue with it, am I stuck with needing a whole new boom? Or are there bolt-on gooseneck assemblies I can use to retrofit what I have?

Fwiw, it does not appear designed to rotate (square bar in square hole).

I haven't done a die-test, but the rest of the assembly looks tight, including the rivets.

Another thought I had was pulling the boom, drilling out the rivets, then pulling the cap and rebuilding.

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Good question :-) The only thing for sure is that it will not be a cheap fix. Might be a good thing that it is an ancient sliding type bcuz it is easier to match a slot or track than mast sections. The usual rig shops might have suitable parts. I had a new gooseneck mast bracket fabricated at the boatyard recently: $$$$.

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4 minutes ago, Borracho said:

Good question :-) The only thing for sure is that it will not be a cheap fix. Might be a good thing that it is an ancient sliding type bcuz it is easier to match a slot or track than mast sections. The usual rig shops might have suitable parts. I had a new gooseneck mast bracket fabricated at the boatyard recently: $$$$.

The assembly isn't completely original. The GN attaches to a Harken (I believe) slider mounted to retrofitted T-track. 

So it's just the gooseneck part of the assembly I'm focused on.

Hence my thought to potentially pull/rebuild, since the cap is already formed to the boom, and assuming no compromising corrosion I'd just need to deal with the gooseneck tightness/mount issue, then refasten.

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7 minutes ago, Breamerly said:

The assembly isn't completely original. The GN attaches to a Harken (I believe) slider mounted to retrofitted T-track. 

So it's just the gooseneck part of the assembly I'm focused on.

Hence my thought to potentially pull/rebuild, since the cap is already formed to the boom, and assuming no compromising corrosion I'd just need to deal with the gooseneck tightness/mount issue, then refasten.

Back in the day boom parts like that were cast aluminum. It is likely well worn. A competent machinist may be able to fit a stainless bushing (or whatever). Have no fear...but bring the VISA card.

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1 minute ago, Borracho said:

Back in the day boom parts like that were cast aluminum. It is likely well worn. A competent machinist may be able to fit a stainless bushing (or whatever). Have no fear...but bring the VISA card.

Yeah it appears to be a cast aluminum cap that fits inside, and is riveted through the wall of, the boom.

I actually have access to a full machine shop (CNC mills and lathes, press, metal bamdsaw etc), but I'm so slow with the tools/need so much guidance from my friends who owns the shop that I try to avoid fabricating things if I can avoid it. 

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That piece is the 'toggle'. Wear is normal for this part as it moves under load constantly. Pics would help. Cast aluminum is not very strong & tends to be brittle. Probably have to remove the cap from the boom to work on the toggle.

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Had a boat with a stainless Clovis pin through a cast aluminum part. You can guess which took the beating. Simple fix was to ream it out and press in a bronze bushing.

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2 hours ago, Breamerly said:

Yeah it appears to be a cast aluminum cap that fits inside, and is riveted through the wall of, the boom.

I actually have access to a full machine shop (CNC mills and lathes, press, metal bamdsaw etc), but I'm so slow with the tools/need so much guidance from my friends who owns the shop that I try to avoid fabricating things if I can avoid it. 

I repaired a sloppy gooseneck on my 6200 Lb 30' It was much sloppier than you describe.

Pulled the parts, cleaned them thoroughly, filled the pivot holes with metal filled JB Weld and then re-drilled to the correct size.

Worked like a charm. Probably inadequate for a heavier rig/boat but for small stuff it worked just fine.

Cost? About $10.

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I repaired a sloppy gooseneck on my 6200 Lb 30' It was much sloppier than you describe.

Pulled the parts, cleaned them thoroughly, filled the pivot holes with metal filled JB Weld and then re-drilled to the correct size.

Worked like a charm. Probably inadequate for a heavier rig/boat but for small stuff it worked just fine.

Cost? About $10.

In this case it's pulling the parts that's the trick. Since it's permanently assembled I'm assuming it would be drilling out the rivets, then a cold chisel and mallet to knock it out.

I do think this is what I'll end up doing.

Then some slightly fancier version of what what you're describing - maybe tack-weeks some shims to get the pin to fit the hole.

 

Or just fab a new one - that's a possibility, too. 

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Yeah Photos would help, is the boom anodized , raw alloy or painted.?

Alloy is agreat conductor of heat and may be the way to get things apart once rivets are removed. But apply heat carefully and not to painted unless you are planning to repaint the area.

From what you have described it sounds like a stainless bolt has worked the hole in the alloy piece that it has passed through.

Relatively simple to bush it or drill it again and sleeve the bolt perhaps.

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23 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

From what you have described it sounds like a stainless bolt has worked the hole in the alloy piece that it has passed through.

Relatively simple to bush it or drill it again and sleeve the bolt perhaps.

Yeah, it looks to me like this is the case, although not too badly worked. Be pretty sweet is we were just able to tighten up the existing assembly.

And yeah, will definitely add photos next time I'm over there.

I think disassembly is in order. My machinist friend suggested an alternative would be to cut an inspection/adjustment port in the wall. You see this fabbed in place on some newer/better booms. That's a thought, too.

 

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And yeah

23 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

boom anodized , raw alloy or painted.?

Yeah I think the boom is raw alloy (same as the mast). pretty typical for older small production boats I think?

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On 4/18/2021 at 7:44 PM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

FFS,  how hard is it to drill out a couple of rivets to take a look?   how expensive are rivets to replace? like  $.02 apiece?  

Thanks haha. As with most of us it's not the $$ to repair that's holding me up, it's time to effectuate that repair. Hence asking around a little to get a few opinions as long as I'm away from the boat, anyway.

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On 4/18/2021 at 7:05 PM, Breamerly said:

In this case it's pulling the parts that's the trick. Since it's permanently assembled I'm assuming it would be drilling out the rivets, then a cold chisel and mallet to knock it out.

Nothing is permanently assembled.   You could go the JB weld type approach or take to a local machine shop and have them put in some bushings to take up the 'tolerance'.   Machinists need to eat too.

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Took some photos. Shows the degree of play/wiggle and also how rounded out the hole is. (Pay no attention to the sad dhink in the background it's not mine)

For a refresh, I had been thinking about either 1) drilling the rivets and seeing if I couldn't remove it/tighten/refasten 2) cutting an inspection hole, on the assumption that there was prrrrobably a nut on the back of the actual 'neck' that I could access and tighten.

Looking at it more closely, though, I see that it looks like it was an aftermarket job to begin with, judging by the wonky spacing of the existing rivets.

Given that, and given that my machinist friend said we could pretty easily template a new one if it turns out to be fucked, I think pulling it makes sense. (Maybe everything will turn out to be in good enough shape that I can use @Sloop John B's solution).
 

 

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