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Telsa, Bring your marshmallows.


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Telsa, crashed into a tree. The investigators were 100% sure no one was behind the wheel at the time of the crash.

Firefighters had to call Telsa to figure out how to put out the fire.

It burned for 4 hours and had to use 30,000 gals of water to put it out.
I wonder how big the carbon footprint that left?

No thanks, I will take my chances with gasoline.

 

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/tesla-spring-crash-fire/285-c28a4993-5b5f-43f4-a924-e39638390647

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3 hours ago, woodpecker said:

Telsa, crashed into a tree. The investigators were 100% sure no one was behind the wheel at the time of the crash.

Firefighters had to call Telsa to figure out how to put out the fire.

It burned for 4 hours and had to use 30,000 gals of water to put it out.
I wonder how big the carbon footprint that left?

No thanks, I will take my chances with gasoline.

 

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/tesla-spring-crash-fire/285-c28a4993-5b5f-43f4-a924-e39638390647

 

As these vehicles become more prevalent there will need to be increased training across first responders about how to manage these kinds of situations.  Water can actually make the fire worse due to the lithium content, but has good cooling effect that is beneficial. 

 

As for the self driving aspect, it'll take a lot more data to have me trust the AI not to kill me.

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30,000 gallons of water, and 4 hours?

 Was this the fire dept. in Mayberry, or Petticoat Junction?

Water to put out an electrical fire is pretty much a "Duh....NO!" situation, and water to put out any vehicle fire is pretty much a "Duh!.. NO!" situation.

 

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9 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

 

Sweet Smoking Mary, so good. Anytime a song pulls together two complete drum kits, speakers are bound to be blown.

Ever seen their reunion with USAF Four Star General George Babbitt? He was their original drummer,

 

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1 hour ago, Mrleft8 said:

30,000 gallons of water, and 4 hours?

 Was this the fire dept. in Mayberry, or Petticoat Junction?

Water to put out an electrical fire is pretty much a "Duh....NO!" situation, and water to put out any vehicle fire is pretty much a "Duh!.. NO!" situation.

 

Stand back, let it burn, let Darwin do his job!  Don’t waste your life saving the life of an IDIOT!  If they want to do something stupid that causes injury or death, let them!

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How are instructions given to the autopilot?  Voice or keyboard?  Why was the car travelling so fast?  One of the passengers saying "faster, faster" until impact?

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Had a number of classes from manufactures - including Tesla - on fires in EV vehicles. As I recall there is a “first responder cut loop” in the car which is a low voltage circuit that disconnects the high voltage system. I recall Tesla recommending either let it burn out while protecting surrounding “stuff” (we call it protecting exposures) or using water in large amounts they said on the order of 3000 gallons to fully extinguish/cool the car.batteries. The problem with the water approach is contaminated runoff which we have a responsibility to keep out of the drainage system and water table. I decided pretty quickly I was gonna let those suckers burn out. Never had one.
 

However Fire is just part of the problem. Imagine a wreck you gotta cut folks out of and all those high voltage cables running through the car body in hidden raceways. They said if the floor pan is breached in the wreck....watch it...the whole car could become energized. When the thing is crammed up under a semi or bridge abutment or wrapped around a light pole.......stuff gets sorta mangled and out of place. Oh yeah.......you don’t know if the frigging thing is running or ready to run....is it in gear? Guess what there is no motor noise. It could be sitting there ready to take off, so Tesla says says to make sure to chock all 4 wheels front and back. 
 

Those things are downright dangerous. We were a big enough department to arrange the manufacturer training classes. Imagine some rural all volunteer department in Texas or similar place. How do those folks find out. Stuff is online but........it’s a problem.

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44 minutes ago, burndoc said:

Driver probably crashed and ran

i find it ironic Tesla runs on DC batteries

Why? Aren't all batteries DC?

Or are referencing Nikola Tesla's AC power inventions in the 1890s?

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Given this was a "test drive" and the crash was a 1/4mile away in the neighborhood?  Yeah, Darwin, can't fix stupid but you can kill it, hold my beer and every other yeehaw moment ever. Spring is just north of Houston so it's Texas.

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There was a 60 Minutes segment on self driving cars a while back.  Basically the conclusion is that driving safely is one of the most complex activities we do and that it will still be a long time before a car can take us around town without killing once in a while. Musk must be smoking that ganja still if he thinks he has figured out the self driving thing. 

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2 minutes ago, Mike in Seattle said:

, and my state just told us there would be no new gas cars after 2030.

 

Not a problem if they aren't self driving.

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Have you seen how BAD some drivers are?  Distracted, visually impaired, medically impaired, drunk, angry, road rage, simply not *looking*, ......

It is my opinion that, in the very near future, self driving cars will be better than the AVERAGE driver.  Sure, there will still be collisions and accidents.  But I don't think at any higher rate than current.  

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Sending the car home after I drop myself off at the airport would be nice to save on those long term parking fees.

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Get back to us after there's self driving cars at Indy....or the Paris to Dakar ralleys. Seriously, owning a self driving car?....is like paying someone to bang your wife for you. 

 

Fuk that noise.....

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11 hours ago, silent bob said:

Stand back, let it burn, let Darwin do his job!  Don’t waste your life saving the life of an IDIOT!  If they want to do something stupid that causes injury or death, let them!

If a lithium fire starts at a tree in a (logical to assume) wooded area

40,000 gal of water is a BARGAIN to contain a fire till it goes out

how much water, chemicals, fuel and manpower does it take to put out a fire that got out of control in wooded/Brush areas

11 hours ago, Recidivist said:

How are instructions given to the autopilot?  Voice or keyboard?  Why was the car travelling so fast?  One of the passengers saying "faster, faster" until impact?

voice command needs to be disabled while committing drunkin circus acts in back seat

 

 

who knows even a song on radio could command the AI to follow directions

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

Why? Aren't all batteries DC?

Or are referencing Nikola Tesla's AC power inventions in the 1890s?

latter

Edison DC, Westinghouse/Tesla AC

Edison is said to have electrocuted an old circus elephant with AC and secretly fund the electric chair to be made with AC power to demonstrate how much more lethal it was than DC

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4 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

No driver, owner in back seat, passenger in front. 
 

Darwin wins again!

Tesla should be held responsible to some degree. It would be trivial to build an interlock into the self-driving system that makes sure someone is in the driver's seat and has their hands at least near the steering wheel. Toyota's system won't self-drive unless the driver's hands are near the wheel, it might use the same kind of system that Mercedes uses, where when it senses inactivity from the driver, it pulls off to the side of the road.

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20 minutes ago, mikewof said:

It would be trivial to build an interlock into the self-driving system that makes sure someone is in the driver's seat and has their hands at least near the steering wheel. 

I am no authority as I don't own a Tesla, but it appears that such a system is in place.  

Tesla itself states that the human driver is meant to be fully alert and in control at all times - and has included systems in its cars which are supposed to ensure they keep their hands on the wheel.

Yet look on social media, and it isn't hard to find videos of Tesla drivers asleep at the wheel, or even climbing into the back seat. Abuse of the system has been linked with a handful of fatalities.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56799749

So there must be more to this.....

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21 minutes ago, Bugsy said:

I am no authority as I don't own a Tesla, but it appears that such a system is in place.  

Tesla itself states that the human driver is meant to be fully alert and in control at all times - and has included systems in its cars which are supposed to ensure they keep their hands on the wheel.

Yet look on social media, and it isn't hard to find videos of Tesla drivers asleep at the wheel, or even climbing into the back seat. Abuse of the system has been linked with a handful of fatalities.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56799749

So there must be more to this.....

Unless they’ve changed since then, in the past, Tesla’s only checked for a little bit of weight on the steering wheel to verify a driver had his hands on the wheel. The workaround was to wedge a half full water bottle in the spokes of the wheel. This would let the car drive all day on its own. 

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2 hours ago, Windward said:

Sending the car home after I drop myself off at the airport would be nice to save on those long term parking fees.

I just want it to be able to drive me home after a few too many drinks. 

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Tesla has one fatality per 4 million miles. It’s the safest vehicle by a large order to the next fatality per mile vehicle.

“Keep you eyes on the road and your hands upon the wheel” Jim Morrison, 1971

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1 hour ago, Snaggletooth said:

what if theire is  no roome  a treee on side of the roade?

fufi

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1 hour ago, Snaggletooth said:

what if theire is no roome on side of the roade?

I guess the car keeps driving until it finds room. This is what Mercedes say about it on their website ...

Active Emergency Stop Assist.

Active Emergency Stop Assist brakes the vehicle to a standstill in its lane if it detects that the driver is no longer actively driving the vehicle while it is on the move with Active Steering Assist switched on. If there is no steering wheel movement over a predefined period, the system gives the driver a visual and audible prompt to place his/her hands on the wheel. If the driver fails to respond after repeated visual and audible prompts by moving the steering wheel, accelerating, braking or pressing the Touch Control Button on the steering wheel, the car will be slowed down in the identified lane until it comes to a standstill. At speeds below approx. 60 km/h the following traffic is warned by means of hazard warning lamps. When the vehicle comes to a standstill, the parking brake is engaged automatically and the Mercedes-Benz emergency call system is activated. The vehicle is also unlocked, to allow first aiders access to the interior. The functions are aborted as soon as the driver takes control of the vehicle again.

 

Ironic, huh Snags? Daimler-Benz helped build the Third Reich, built the armaments that killed millions, and then enslaved Jews to build those armaments, finally shipping them back to the concentration camps like Sachsenhausen to be gassed when it was clear that Germany no longer had a chance ... and now they make a car that protects the life of someone who can't be bothered to stay awake at the wheel. Crazy world.

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I wonder if the memory module with the vehicle's data is designed with enough protection to survive a fire like this.  If not, Tesla might consider doing something like that, similar to the flight data recorders on aircraft.  

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4 hours ago, El Mariachi said:

Get back to us after there's self driving cars at Indy....or the Paris to Dakar ralleys. Seriously, owning a self driving car?....is like paying someone to bang your wife for you. 

 

Fuk that noise.....

Tesla needs to perfect the Self Driving feature at the US/MEX border, Mexico side. Let's see how that works out.

If it can navigate through that chaos, then we are progressing.  Until then, Nope.

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20 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

I wonder if the memory module with the vehicle's data is designed with enough protection to survive a fire like this.  If not, Tesla might consider doing something like that, similar to the flight data recorders on aircraft.  

THAT is the LAST thing a manufacturer would include if not REQUIRED

That said it's a 4 door iFone and everything is sent/stored somewhere\

just Not for Your Benefit ;)

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This guy is not too happy with his Telsa.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/watch-a-disgruntled-tesla-owner-jump-on-top-of-a-car-at-the-shanghai-auto-show/ar-BB1fPnkS?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz

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<iframe width="978" height="574" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/

" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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The question isn't 'Can cars drive themselves?'

The question isn't 'Will they kill people?'

The question is 'When will self driving cars kill fewer people per mile then human driven cars?'   When that happens the preference of 'stick shift' types won't matter.  Insurance companies will start charging extra every time the driver pushes a button besides AC and radio.   I'm sure there will be a large red kill button for a few years, but that will gradually shrink as people pushing it by accident keeps causing traffic jams, but the number of real emergencies becomes increasingly rare.   Personally, I hope that happens about the time I'm too old to drive at night.    Until that happens, cars need a 'dead man's switch' to keep the human benchwarmer engaged while he's supposedly responsible for overseeing the computer.    

 

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6 minutes ago, Lark said:

The question isn't 'Can cars drive themselves?'

The question isn't 'Will they kill people?'

The question is 'When will self driving cars kill fewer people per mile then human driven cars?'   When that happens the preference of 'stick shift' types won't matter.  Insurance companies will start charging extra every time the driver pushes a button besides AC and radio.   I'm sure there will be a large red kill button for a few years, but that will gradually shrink as people pushing it by accident keeps causing traffic jams, but the number of real emergencies becomes increasingly rare.   Personally, I hope that happens about the time I'm too old to drive at night.    Until that happens, cars need a 'dead man's switch' to keep the human benchwarmer engaged while he's supposedly responsible for overseeing the computer.    

 

A self driving car anywhere south of the Tortilla Curtain....wouldn't last fuking long enough to even get dirty.

 

Seriously, these are stupidest fuking things built since the g-damn Hindenberg. (And the bullet train to Nowhere's-Ville)....

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25 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

A self driving car anywhere south of the Tortilla Curtain....wouldn't last fuking long enough to even get dirty.

 

Seriously, these are stupidest fuking things built since the g-damn Hindenberg. (And the bullet train to Nowhere's-Ville)....

At least it requires actual engineering expertise to build the dumb ass things.

I'm still balls deep in fixing my daughters car because some fucknut at Ford who brainlessly designed the wheel drums for Mazda apparently though it would be a good idea to use phillips screw to hold the wheel drum onto the bearing. The alloy they used welded itself together with no clear way to extract it because of the fucking dumb arse phillips head. Impact driver didn't work, pneumatic driver didn't work, blowtorch wouldn't loosen it, I used a left handed drill bit to drill into the screw to use an extractor, which then broke off inside the screw, which then meant I had no choice but to use my angle grinder to grind off the drum, repeat on the other side too, that one also had a self-welded screw. I thought I could at least save the bearing, but no amount of force, cheater bars or vice grips would unweld those screws. So then nothing mates with the the new rear drums, and I can't get enough hydraulic pressure for the little gal, so I'm rebuilding all the drum brakes now, and the computer system that Ford/Mazda used seems to get feedback from the cylinder coupled to the wheel speed sensor, so the computer is throwing error codes like HAL in that Kubrick movie.

If Ford did this deliberately, like their dumb-ass extended shell spark plug design that broke off inside of all those F-150s, I could kind of forgive them, they're just being selfish and don't want people to fix their cars, they want to raise their dealership repair instances. But if they just did this shit because they're dumb-asses, that's kind of even less excusable in my book.

If Tesla designed their cars to murder their occupants if they had a bad alpha brain wave thought about Elon Musk, they still wouldn't be as much a of a shitshow as Fucking Ford.

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1). Actual official shop hours to replace an oil pan gasket on a post 86 Bronco? 6.25.--->6.75. Intake mani off, motor mounts loosened, engine jacked up 4 inches. Add an extra two inches & 45 minutes if you feel the urge to stuff a new oil pump in there while you're at it. Jfc...  

 

2). Intake has 5 basic hex bolts holding it down. Pretty EZ. Unfortunately, the Ford Fastener Fairy thought it'd be really fun to add one extra bolt.....a fuking #40 Torx in the center of those manis....that not only is near invisible.....but near unreachable. 

 

Henry Ford would NOT be impressed if he was around today.....

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20 hours ago, El Mariachi said:

Self driving cars is the dumbest f'ng idea since the square tire....

Hey now!!

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17 hours ago, Point Break said:

Those things are downright dangerous. We were a big enough department to arrange the manufacturer training classes. Imagine some rural all volunteer department in Texas or similar place. How do those folks find out. Stuff is online but........it’s a problem.

Not a problem.  Just different.  New tech, new techniques and procedures.  I'm sure lot's of FD's back in the horse and buggy days thought those gasoline run death traps were "problems" too.

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I've never owned a single vehicle that was built after '97 (almost the very last F-350 crew cab 4x4 built, before they went to that newer fuk-ugly front end). And my current daily driver? La Bamba, my '67 1100B 4x4 International Harvester TravelAll.....which has about nine moving parts, runs like a top and is insured for 11 times more than I paid for her.

 

Fuk new cars, complete waste of money.....:lol:

20210416_130139(1).jpg

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Have we learned nothing!?

They still don’t cover lithium fire fighting at the Safety At Sea seminars. They won’t because they would have to drop the section on the new requirement to wear helmets and adult diapers  from dusk til dawn on inshore coastal overnight  races. 
 


 

 

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25 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

 

 

Henry Ford would NOT be impressed if he was around today.....

Sure he would. White Supremacy is the IN thing. Trump would probably have made him Ambassador to East Germany. 

( I know there is no East Germany, but Trump wouldn’t.  Work with me) 
 

 

 

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5 hours ago, mikewof said:

Tesla should be held responsible to some degree. It would be trivial to build an interlock into the self-driving system that makes sure someone is in the driver's seat and has their hands at least near the steering wheel. Toyota's system won't self-drive unless the driver's hands are near the wheel, it might use the same kind of system that Mercedes uses, where when it senses inactivity from the driver, it pulls off to the side of the road.

Ok, let me dispel some pretty gross myths and misconceptions in this thread about Telsas and self-driving.  Because the stupid is getting thick in here.

  1. Teslas ARE NOT "self-driving" cars.  Base cars have an auto-pilot that does basic autopilot functions similar to an aircraft autopilot.  No pilot with an autopilot installed in his/her aircraft calls that a "self-flying" plane - although aircraft automation FAR exceeds what cars do now.  But that's a different topic.  The Tesla autopilot can "See" the road and the lanes via it's system of cameras and radar/microwave sensors.  It can "see" all the cars around them 360 degrees and the computer can pretty damn accurately compute predictive behavior of all of those cars around it - i.e. speed differentials, when other cars are changing lanes, etc.  So it can maintain itself in it's lane pretty well and can maintain distance from the car in front just as some "smart cruise controls" do most modern cars.  However, it can also come to a full stop behind another car and can resume once the car ahead takes off from the red light.  It can even change lanes when you put the turn signal on.  
  2. If you pay for the $7000 upgrade (which I did not but have driven them a lot) - it takes the autopilot a step further in that if you program a route from pt A to Pt B just like you do in your google maps, it is then smart enough to know how to navigate there.  it will take off ramps off the highway and navigate down surface streets.  The cameras can "See" stop signs but I don't think the beta version was smart enough to stop at stop signs and then go when it's its turn.  
  3. In ALL cases - you have to physically do something at the driving station every 30 sec or it will start beeping annoyingly at you.  You have to nudge the wheel, change a control like turn the radio up or down or the a/c fan up or down from the steering wheel, make speed changes on the autopilot controls, etc.  You get three warnings and on the third one, it disengages everything and slows down and pulls over.  You have to put it into park to reset the AP.  
  4. If you are in the drivers seat and disconnect the seat belt - it will immediately disengage the AP and stop. 
  5. If you get up out of the drivers seat - it will immediately disengage the AP and stop. 
  6. If you are at slow speed and do any of the above - it will put it into park.  I made that mistake in a drive through car wash (disconnected the seat belt) and it threw it into park and I was stuck in the car wash until I figured it out.  

So any semblance of "self-drive" requires you to be interactive with the car on a very annoyingly regular basis or it will lock you out from any of the AP functions and will stop the car.  You cannot get in the car and tell it to take you home and then crawl in the back and go to sleep.  Or even sleep at the wheel for more than about a min.  It's not at all what you folks think it is.  I know Tesla and others are moving to a much more fully automated car.  But current Telsas on the road ain't them.  

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1 hour ago, El Mariachi said:

A self driving car anywhere south of the Tortilla Curtain....wouldn't last fuking long enough to even get dirty.

 

Seriously, these are stupidest fuking things built since the g-damn Hindenberg. (And the bullet train to Nowhere's-Ville)....

Sorry rick, you're wrong on this one.  Don't knock it until you've tried it.  My Telsa is the best car I've ever owned.  I'll never go back to gasoline, unless it's a beat up off road Jeep to get into the back country.  But other than that, oh hellz no! 

I giggle every time I pass people lining up for their $3.50+ gasoline.  And the best part is it's as fast as my 911 turbo while carrying 2 weeks worth of groceries, an 85lb German shepherd and a mountain bike.  

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9 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

( I know there is no East Germany, but Trump wouldn’t.  Work with me) 
 

I've always heard the E. German judges are the toughest.  

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9 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

It dependes howe you cooke them................                    :)

Shaken, not stirred .....:lol:

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38 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Ok, let me dispel some pretty gross myths and misconceptions in this thread about Telsas and self-driving.  Because the stupid is getting thick in here.

  1. Teslas ARE NOT "self-driving" cars.  Base cars have an auto-pilot that does basic autopilot functions similar to an aircraft autopilot.  No pilot with an autopilot installed in his/her aircraft calls that a "self-flying" plane - although aircraft automation FAR exceeds what cars do now.  But that's a different topic.  The Tesla autopilot can "See" the road and the lanes via it's system of cameras and radar/microwave sensors.  It can "see" all the cars around them 360 degrees and the computer can pretty damn accurately compute predictive behavior of all of those cars around it - i.e. speed differentials, when other cars are changing lanes, etc.  So it can maintain itself in it's lane pretty well and can maintain distance from the car in front just as some "smart cruise controls" do most modern cars.  However, it can also come to a full stop behind another car and can resume once the car ahead takes off from the red light.  It can even change lanes when you put the turn signal on.  
  2. If you pay for the $7000 upgrade (which I did not but have driven them a lot) - it takes the autopilot a step further in that if you program a route from pt A to Pt B just like you do in your google maps, it is then smart enough to know how to navigate there.  it will take off ramps off the highway and navigate down surface streets.  The cameras can "See" stop signs but I don't think the beta version was smart enough to stop at stop signs and then go when it's its turn.  
  3. In ALL cases - you have to physically do something at the driving station every 30 sec or it will start beeping annoyingly at you.  You have to nudge the wheel, change a control like turn the radio up or down or the a/c fan up or down from the steering wheel, make speed changes on the autopilot controls, etc.  You get three warnings and on the third one, it disengages everything and slows down and pulls over.  You have to put it into park to reset the AP.  
  4. If you are in the drivers seat and disconnect the seat belt - it will immediately disengage the AP and stop. 
  5. If you get up out of the drivers seat - it will immediately disengage the AP and stop. 
  6. If you are at slow speed and do any of the above - it will put it into park.  I made that mistake in a drive through car wash (disconnected the seat belt) and it threw it into park and I was stuck in the car wash until I figured it out.  

So any semblance of "self-drive" requires you to be interactive with the car on a very annoyingly regular basis or it will lock you out from any of the AP functions and will stop the car.  You cannot get in the car and tell it to take you home and then crawl in the back and go to sleep.  Or even sleep at the wheel for more than about a min.  It's not at all what you folks think it is.  I know Tesla and others are moving to a much more fully automated car.  But current Telsas on the road ain't them.  

Since you have real world experience with self driving cars and planes, what do you think?   Self driving trucks on the interstate seems relatively simple,    Cities would be harder, unless all cars follow the same program, so the Uber dream seems tougher.    Rural roads with farm equipment and intermittent pavement seems challenging.  

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In addition the AP will disengage and refuse to re-engage if repeated nags are ignored. Very womanly.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-version-8-0-nags-restrictions/

TACC makes for safe driving. It’s very situationally aware in all directions and reacts appropriately instantly. But its best feature is crawling in rush hour at 2 mph. Fuck if I want my foot on the pedals for that. Love my S. Best road trip car evah. But a Y may be in the future.

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1 hour ago, Olsonist said:

In addition the AP will disengage and refuse to re-engage if repeated nags are ignored. Very womanly.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-version-8-0-nags-restrictions/

TACC makes for safe driving. It’s very situationally aware in all directions and reacts appropriately instantly. But its best feature is crawling in rush hour at 2 mph. Fuck if I want my foot on the pedals for that. Love my S. Best road trip car evah. But a Y may be in the future.

The X is mo beddah....

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Elon should put it in the menu,

Quote

 

Nag free time : for committing drunken circus acts in back seat

, try not to kill us,,

 

 

 I would preferr to be in the news for being killed doing that while driving

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2 hours ago, Lark said:

Since you have real world experience with self driving cars and planes, what do you think?   Self driving trucks on the interstate seems relatively simple,    Cities would be harder, unless all cars follow the same program, so the Uber dream seems tougher.    Rural roads with farm equipment and intermittent pavement seems challenging.  

I think it's only a matter of time before real full-self drive gets there.  We're not there yet though.  Lots of hurdles to overcome, but they will be overcome.  I'm of mixed minds because I like driving.  I like driving fast and I like driving fast on curvy roads.  I don't think e-vehicles take anything away from that.  If I want to drive, I do.  And Teslas are sick fast.  But when I don't want to drive - I can let HAL do the tedious shit for me.  I have a 35-40 min commute every day.  I'm pretty much on AP from the moment my wheels hit on ramp to the main highway until I have to get off at my exit.  The difference in fatigue is yuge.  Turn that into a 12-14 hour roadtrip and the difference in fatigue is indescribable.  I often have to fly some really stupid early shifts where I'm at work at 0130 and am driving home around 0800 flat out exhausted.  There have been many a times in the last year that I've nodded off with the AP on and the nagging beeper has woken me up - while still perfectly maintaining the lane and speed.  Had that been any other car, I would literally be in a ball of twisted metal at the bottom of a culvert in the desert.  No that is not an exaggeration in the slightest.  The car has literally saved my life several times.   

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For those that shudder at the thought of cars driving around on autopilot - if you've flown anywhere in the last 10-15 years..... hell 25 years..... you've been on a plane that has been on autopilot literally from pushing the throttles up on Takeoff to landing rollout.  The majority of all airline landings are fully automated.  The pilots are just monitoring the systems all the way through touchdown to full reverse to braking and then they take over once it's down to taxi speed.  

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3 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Ok, let me dispel some pretty gross myths and misconceptions in this thread about Telsas and self-driving.  Because the stupid is getting thick in here.

  1. Teslas ARE NOT "self-driving" cars.  Base cars have an auto-pilot that does basic autopilot functions similar to an aircraft autopilot.  No pilot with an autopilot installed in his/her aircraft calls that a "self-flying" plane - although aircraft automation FAR exceeds what cars do now.  But that's a different topic.  The Tesla autopilot can "See" the road and the lanes via it's system of cameras and radar/microwave sensors.  It can "see" all the cars around them 360 degrees and the computer can pretty damn accurately compute predictive behavior of all of those cars around it - i.e. speed differentials, when other cars are changing lanes, etc.  So it can maintain itself in it's lane pretty well and can maintain distance from the car in front just as some "smart cruise controls" do most modern cars.  However, it can also come to a full stop behind another car and can resume once the car ahead takes off from the red light.  It can even change lanes when you put the turn signal on.  
  2. If you pay for the $7000 upgrade (which I did not but have driven them a lot) - it takes the autopilot a step further in that if you program a route from pt A to Pt B just like you do in your google maps, it is then smart enough to know how to navigate there.  it will take off ramps off the highway and navigate down surface streets.  The cameras can "See" stop signs but I don't think the beta version was smart enough to stop at stop signs and then go when it's its turn.  
  3. In ALL cases - you have to physically do something at the driving station every 30 sec or it will start beeping annoyingly at you.  You have to nudge the wheel, change a control like turn the radio up or down or the a/c fan up or down from the steering wheel, make speed changes on the autopilot controls, etc.  You get three warnings and on the third one, it disengages everything and slows down and pulls over.  You have to put it into park to reset the AP.  
  4. If you are in the drivers seat and disconnect the seat belt - it will immediately disengage the AP and stop. 
  5. If you get up out of the drivers seat - it will immediately disengage the AP and stop. 
  6. If you are at slow speed and do any of the above - it will put it into park.  I made that mistake in a drive through car wash (disconnected the seat belt) and it threw it into park and I was stuck in the car wash until I figured it out.  

So any semblance of "self-drive" requires you to be interactive with the car on a very annoyingly regular basis or it will lock you out from any of the AP functions and will stop the car.  You cannot get in the car and tell it to take you home and then crawl in the back and go to sleep.  Or even sleep at the wheel for more than about a min.  It's not at all what you folks think it is.  I know Tesla and others are moving to a much more fully automated car.  But current Telsas on the road ain't them.  

It seems that a well-driven Tesla is a safe vehicle. Somehow though, the people in the Tesla that crashed into a tree and burst into flames, managed to have the thing drive them around with not only not being aware, but not even being in the driver's seat. Any idea how they could have bypassed all that stuff you describe?

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34 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

For those that shudder at the thought of cars driving around on autopilot - if you've flown anywhere in the last 10-15 years..... hell 25 years..... you've been on a plane that has been on autopilot literally from pushing the throttles up on Takeoff to landing rollout.  The majority of all airline landings are fully automated.  The pilots are just monitoring the systems all the way through touchdown to full reverse to braking and then they take over once it's down to taxi speed.  

If the skies were suddenly full of uncharted obstacles, the runways suddenly changed without notice, with assorted vehicles and construction scattered over those runways willy-nilly, an occasional ground control specialist on duty, but usually not, and pilots sleeping their way across vast stretches of the skies, with nobody actually monitoring anything, then I might shudder a bit more about robots flying planes. But the car problem seems to have a whole different set of challenges than the airplane problem, as evidenced by a Tesla careening off the road and into a tree where it burst into flames and cooked the occupants who were too lazy to drive the damned thing.

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25 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

For those that shudder at the thought of cars driving around on autopilot - if you've flown anywhere in the last 10-15 years..... hell 25 years..... you've been on a plane that has been on autopilot literally from pushing the throttles up on Takeoff to landing rollout.  The majority of all airline landings are fully automated.  The pilots are just monitoring the systems all the way through touchdown to full reverse to braking and then they take over once it's down to taxi speed.  

That is true. But air travel occurs in a 3D environment on predetermined routes/waypoints, etc. with mandatory separation of paths , flown/monitored by trained professionals. And monitored via humans on radar screens in the event something unexpected occurs like a decompression or engine failure requiring deviation from a published route. Not quite the same as all the distracted drivers on a highway with the occasional deer or ice/snow/rain that causes differing reactions from different drivers in close space. 

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41 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

The X is mo beddah....

Test drove an X when I was looking. Hated it. Love the S and hate, hate, hated the X. When the 3 came out, I test drove the performance version. Launching in Ludicrious or Plaid or whatever was fun but the 3 isn't a hatchback. Nah, I'll keep the S for awhile and then maybe get a Y. Like the X, you sit more upright in the Y than in the S or 3.

BTW, you have a magic ticket for buying a Tesla. You can book a factory tour (in Fremont, Austin isn't open yet) which is pretty cool. They have the largest press in North America, the Giga Press, two of them in fact. Their predecessor was so large, it noticeably reflected earthquakes and the USGS called to ask what was up. You don't get to the test track and Elon moved to Austin. But it is the coolest factory tour. Probably have to wait for COVID to die down though. Just email FactoryTours@tesla.com.

Anyways, my Nissan Leaf could take a 911 at an intersection. But the 911 has a 180 or so top speed and even the S craps out at like 130. However it takes awhile for the 911 to catch up to an S, roughly at the quarter mile. Maybe on a track, I'd go 130 but not on a freeway.

Hand to God, this is a true story but when I worked in Italy, out in the countryside I beat a Lambo at an intersection ... on my bicycle. Oh, you didn't know that Lamborghini makes tractors? Sorry.

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

For those that shudder at the thought of cars driving around on autopilot - if you've flown anywhere in the last 10-15 years..... hell 25 years..... you've been on a plane that has been on autopilot literally from pushing the throttles up on Takeoff to landing rollout.  The majority of all airline landings are fully automated.  The pilots are just monitoring the systems all the way through touchdown to full reverse to braking and then they take over once it's down to taxi speed.  

well that proves that you are not in commercial aviation or have clue what you are talking about. the truth is that only about 1% of flights used a CAT III landing and there are no automatic takeoffs ever. almost never a CATIIIC landing in 0 visibility. 

the S---t is getting thick on this thread

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My son works for Tesla, took delivery of a model 3 a year ago. As an employee he got some freebies, one of which was the self driving feature, along with that the car is giving feedback to big mama about what it is doing and Matt also reports to Tesla screw ups the car makes. We live south of Seattle about 20 miles. He has driven it in self-driving mode many times, he drove to about 120 miles to eastern WA using self-driving and said it was flawless, freeway driving and backroads. He had the same report coming back. Couple of weeks ago I rode along on a drive to north of Seattle about 55 miles up and 55 miles back. We took I-5 thru Seattle, traffic conditions were very light to stop and go. I was totally blown away, the car handled it extremely well. It handled side streets and freeway driving. The only goof up was not going into driveways. Quite often it asks you to give a minor amount of feedback via the steering wheel, just to make sure you are paying attention. The big screen on the dash also is amazing, shows all the traffic around you.The picture it paints of the cars, traffic devices, road etc is amazing.  It sees the stop signs and stops and then goes when clear. Matt said the biggest flaw for him was trying to  it summon it in a parking lot. I am not ready to give up my driving to a computer yet.

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For those truly interested.......one of my favorite contemporary authors - Yuval Noah Harari - wrote a really interesting book titled 21 Lessons for the 21st Century. He discussed driverless vehicles very coherently quite a bit in one chapter. The takeaways were currently there are 38,000 motor vehicle crash deaths annually in the US making it a leading cause of death in adults. Another 4.5 million people do not die but require hospital care. Whatever mistakes the right driverless scenario are likely to cause....they pale in comparison to the current numbers. He goes on to say we’re not there yet.....but eventually will be. Some key elements is all vehicles and traffic control devices and traffic flow monitors need to be on line. Then speeds, routes, and traffic flow are easily monitored and adjusted for.....all with the passengers completely unaware. Granted we’re a ways off but he makes a compelling point. Anyway....all his books are stellar. I actually preferred his other two “Sapiens” and “Homo Deus” much more. But this is still filled with  21 interesting  concepts and discussions/evaluations. Highly recommend.

https://www.amazon.com/Lessons-21st-Century-Yuval-Harari-ebook/dp/B079WM7KLS/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1618895134&sr=8-2

 

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Gets stranger and stranger - Musk states this car did not have self driving feature and that would also require lane lines which this street didn't have.  Was a respected 59 yr old doctor at Memorial Herman Woodlands hospital and his 69 year old friend.  Car traveled 400 yards down a residential street to a cul de sac before hitting the tree.

 

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12 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Test drove an X when I was looking. Hated it. Love the S and hate, hate, hated the X. When the 3 came out, I test drove the performance version. Launching in Ludicrious or Plaid or whatever was fun but the 3 isn't a hatchback. Nah, I'll keep the S for awhile and then maybe get a Y. Like the X, you sit more upright in the Y than in the S or 3.

BTW, you have a magic ticket for buying a Tesla. You can book a factory tour (in Fremont, Austin isn't open yet) which is pretty cool. They have the largest press in North America, the Giga Press, two of them in fact. Their predecessor was so large, it noticeably reflected earthquakes and the USGS called to ask what was up. You don't get to the test track and Elon moved to Austin. But it is the coolest factory tour. Probably have to wait for COVID to die down though. Just email FactoryTours@tesla.com.

Anyways, my Nissan Leaf could take a 911 at an intersection. But the 911 has a 180 or so top speed and even the S craps out at like 130. However it takes awhile for the 911 to catch up to an S, roughly at the quarter mile. Maybe on a track, I'd go 130 but not on a freeway.

Hand to God, this is a true story but when I worked in Italy, out in the countryside I beat a Lambo at an intersection ... on my bicycle. Oh, you didn't know that Lamborghini makes tractors? Sorry.

 

 

FB_IMG_1601477862286.jpg

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I can't image trusting self driving! It can't see 3 or 4 cars ahead to maintain situational awareness.

I turn off lane assist on my new ride because it's really weird to have the steering wheel pushing against your turn in...

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I stopped being awed and impressed with 'new auto technology' when Mercedes came out with that stupid 'water sensing' sensor system that automatically turned on your fuking windshield wipers. Like I need help 'sensing' f'ng rain drops on my windshield.....

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22 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

I stopped being awed and impressed with 'new auto technology' when Mercedes came out with that stupid 'water sensing' sensor system that automatically turned on your fuking windshield wipers. Like I need help 'sensing' f'ng rain drops on my windshield.....

I dointe no, mabey less perceptieve peopel oute theire thet woude appreciatte an optione licke that.                                      :)

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1 hour ago, El Mariachi said:

I stopped being awed and impressed with 'new auto technology' when Mercedes came out with that stupid 'water sensing' sensor system that automatically turned on your fuking windshield wipers. Like I need help 'sensing' f'ng rain drops on my windshield.....

tit's not easy for some people to reach around and turn on the wiper switch or even see it

 

huge-breasts-in-tiny-bikini.jpg

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4 hours ago, d&#x27;ranger said:

Gets stranger and stranger - Musk states this car did not have self driving feature and that would also require lane lines which this street didn't have.  Was a respected 59 yr old doctor at Memorial Herman Woodlands hospital and his 69 year old friend.  Car traveled 400 yards down a residential street to a cul de sac before hitting the tree.

 

Perhaps the driver ran off. Wouldn’t rule out foul play at this point. Intense consuming fire hides lotsa secrets. It will be interesting,

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9 minutes ago, Point Break said:

Perhaps the driver ran off. Wouldn’t rule out foul play at this point. Intense consuming fire hides lotsa secrets. It will be interesting,

That thouht rite theire gettes you the investigatieve cabelle showe as a followe up to youre beste selleng booke!  Tackeng alle youre firematic traineng and experinence investigatte possibelle mislabelled crime seenes.  The liste coude go on foire seasones!                        :)

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On 4/18/2021 at 5:40 PM, woodpecker said:

Telsa, crashed into a tree. The investigators were 100% sure no one was behind the wheel at the time of the crash.

Firefighters had to call Telsa to figure out how to put out the fire.

It burned for 4 hours and had to use 30,000 gals of water to put it out.
I wonder how big the carbon footprint that left?

No thanks, I will take my chances with gasoline.

 

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/tesla-spring-crash-fire/285-c28a4993-5b5f-43f4-a924-e39638390647

knowing texans,  2 guys in their 50's,  both probably drunker than hell, neither wanted to get hit up with another dui,    uh, will let the car drive us home...

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35 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

That thouht rite theire gettes you the investigatieve cabelle showe as a followe up to youre beste selleng booke!  Tackeng alle youre firematic traineng and experinence investigatte possibelle mislabelled crime seenes.  The liste coude go on foire seasones!                        :)

:lol:

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51 minutes ago, Point Break said:

Perhaps the driver ran off. Wouldn’t rule out foul play at this point. Intense consuming fire hides lotsa secrets. It will be interesting,

I think there is more to this story.   Like you theory that the driver ran off.  

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