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New luxury yacht tax in Canada


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21 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Is the 20% tax ONLY on boats and nothing else?

About everything except some products of necessity (food etc...) and some stuff that is good for the planet (insulation of old buildings etc...). Once upon a time there was a special VAT rate for luxury goods (Car, boats etc...) that was at 33% ISTR. It didn't kill the boat industry either, they just built smaller boats.

I don't particularly like taxes, this Canadian tax might hurt a bit the Breton economy as we might loose a few sales or a Pogo 36 might morph into a Pogo 30 but I think that there is a lot of scaremongering in these discussions when people say "this is going to kill an industry". If you look at the facts you realise that national states are becoming weak compared to the wealthiest and if we don't want to loose democracy we need to make sure that wealth doesn't concentrate too much. At the end if we all vote for governments that are so indebted that they don't have a say we've lost democracy by stealth.

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You do not have a clue WTF you are talking about. I was in the business back then and it resulted in the layoff of 3/4s of the blue collar working people at our shop and many others. The rich people g

But no one will pay it. No one did last time. This would just be the "hide your boat in Annapolis or Miami" law. Every rich(ish) person I know would be more than happy to pay someone $149,999.99

Cross border personality disorder. Damned contagious, I tell you.

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5 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

About everything except some products of necessity (food etc...) and some stuff that is good for the planet (insulation of old buildings etc...). Once upon a time there was a special VAT rate for luxury goods (Car, boats etc...) that was at 33% ISTR. It didn't kill the boat industry either, they just built smaller boats.

I don't particularly like taxes, this Canadian tax might hurt a bit the Breton economy as we might loose a few sales or a Pogo 36 might morph into a Pogo 30 but I think that there is a lot of scaremongering in these discussions when people say "this is going to kill an industry". If you look at the facts you realise that national states are becoming weak compared to the wealthiest and if we don't want to loose democracy we need to make sure that wealth doesn't concentrate too much. At the end if we all vote for governments that are so indebted that they don't have a say we've lost democracy by stealth.

This tax is a PUNITIVE tax. If France taxed boats at 20% and everything else at 5%, you would have a lot less boats.

Besides for that, this experiment has been done before, it hardly collected any revenue, and it screwed working people hard. Like I said, I was there for it and saw exactly what happened.

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5 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

This tax is a PUNITIVE tax. If France taxed boats at 20% and everything else at 5%, you would have a lot less boats.

Besides for that, this experiment has been done before, it hardly collected any revenue, and it screwed working people hard. Like I said, I was there for it and saw exactly what happened.

Yes.  This tax in the US back when we did it actually cost the govt more money in unemployment compensation than in taxes raised.  Really stupid.  It was the poster child of idiotic govt policy.

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42 minutes ago, Randro said:
$19.84 per hour
 
What is the minimum wage in Australia? As of 1st July, 2020 the minimum wage is $19.84 per hour, or $753.80 per 38-hour week. Casual employees get at least a 25 per cent loading.15 Jan 2021

No idea what any of that means and do not really care about rates in AUS.

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1 minute ago, sailman said:

No idea what any of that means and do not really care about rates in AUS.

Typical inward looking Yank cunt. 

You asked the question, you got an answer where it is working, not what you wanted was it?

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3 minutes ago, Randro said:

Typical inward looking Yank cunt. 

You asked the question, you got an answer where it is working, not what you wanted was it?

No idea whether it is working. Also no idea what a Adollar is worth....

 

 

..

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1 minute ago, fastyacht said:

No idea whether it is working. Also no idea what a Adollar is worth....

 

 

..

Doesn't matter what you know or do not. 

Think of it this way, I hope it is simple enough for you.   One cuntry is a basket case, the other is doing quite well thank you.

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1 minute ago, Randro said:

Doesn't matter what you know or do not. 

Think of it this way, I hope it is simple enough for you.   One cuntry is a basket case, the other is doing quite well thank you.

I know! Those crazy rabbits! O don't know howcyou all manage down there!

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16 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

To fix this title to match the thread content in proper context, the title should read: 

“ INJUSTICE! How the rich are intelligent enough to avoid segregated luxury taxation and how the government makes everyone else pay.”

Please describe luxury and just how do you justify increased taxation on the same basic product to a consumer at a higher level of income and ability to provide economic return to the community and when does the term begin to apply to $100,000 boats today, which would put all of us “rich white guys” into quite a lurch?

 

I guess that you being a progressive will push for the minimum wage. I always work for my money and an increased minimum wage will kill off most small businesses that actually pay taxes. Of course, you know that and don’t care because it’s the “right” thing to do. Kind of weird to use the word “right” to describe the “left”. Me, I’m an American, plain American.
 

 

68E53561-B6D1-4E04-BCC7-ACB153C6884A.jpeg

Emmanuel Saes is an idiot who thinks rich people should be taxed 90%. Universities are full of idiots like him

15 hours ago, Tom O'Keefe said:

Progressives are just hamstringing those that they are supposed to be representing.

 

As usual.

8 hours ago, bgytr said:

Look it up yourself.  Study any economics?

Obviously not. But don't you dare explaining Laffer's curve to a progressive.

1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

We pay 20% VAT on boats in France and still have a boat building industry...

Which has absolutely nothing to do with a luxury tax. 

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8 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Hey, we are pretty much having a civil discussion !! 

Way to go SA !! 

To my more right-sided friends above, I would note several points: 

First, the progressive agenda is wildly popular. The $15, M4A, wealth taxes, GND (Green New Deal) are all supported by a solid majority of USAeans - including a near plurality of Republicans. Lots of cites for this if you question it. 

Second, the progressive agenda is not pie in the sky. It is working in many countries as we speak and write. 

who gives  a shit what new dealers like?  They have nothing but opinions based on clown degrees with no basis in science or economics.

You can bully folks with regulations  on what to pay, but in the end, economics always come into play.  Just takes time. But when it does, it strikes with a vengeance.

 

You raise minimum wage to $15 and I have 10 people making $12 recurrently in my burger joint, I am going to can 3 people for I a going to make my profit for my time and investment and I cannot just pass increased costs on in a competitive world like the government can as they are a monopoly. 

What do you say to the 3 folks who now make $0 per hour?    I am going to tell them the truth.  I cannot afford them anymore.

 

I spent 40 years designing computer systems.

When the economy was good, we had lots of work. When the economy is bad we had even more work as we automated jobs so people could  be laid off. Pure ROI of what it cost us to design and operate an automated solution versus ongoing personnel costs.

In a factory setting the owners also have the option of moving the jobs overseas.

 

You want 15 bucks or better?  Go to school at night and get a degree in designing products or services people will pay for and leave that entry level job.  I do not need to pay 15 bucks to some bun hair twit to make my coffee and hand me a danish just because they are paying for a useless degree just like the UAW learned the hard way GM was could not afford to pay a flunkie $60/hr to toss a spare tire in the trunk of a Cutlass rolling down the assembly line in 1974. Sooner or later it catches up with you.

When the economy slows due to the upcoming tax hikes, there will be hell to be paid and printing funny money is not going to solve it.  Then you kiddies are going to get the dose of reality those of us who suffered from the mid 70s to late 80s lived through.   High inflation and low employment.

 

The bill is coming due in Canada for Justin's liberal policies (I have a buddy in Ottawa who rages at me every other month on the insanity).  That is going to happen in the states too.  As other have said, these liberal policies have happened before and the results were not good.   Look at the loss of revenue in Conn on the millionaire tax implemented  a couple years ago.  And now NJ is doing the same tax.  There are some stupid shits out there thinking it will work this time my B-I-L included.

 

Much as it may annoy you, that is reality.  As John Butcher crooned 30 years ago "If wishes were horses, then dreamers would ride"

 

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2 hours ago, Panoramix said:

We pay 20% VAT on boats in France and still have a boat building industry...

Don't think it like VAT, think it like all the taxes on top of the VAT on tobacco. I think there has been some change in number of smokers even in France, when you guide people by their wallet..

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20 minutes ago, Foreverslow said:

You raise minimum wage to $15 and I have 10 people making $12 recurrently in my burger joint, I am going to can 3 people for I a going to make my profit for my time and investment and I cannot just pass increased costs on in a competitive world like the government can as they are a monopoly. 

What do you say to the 3 folks who now make $0 per hour?    I am going to tell them the truth.  I cannot afford them anymore.

 

 

If you can run your business with seven guys why did you employ ten in the first place? You must be a very generous guy ... or a poor business person. Perhaps if you and everyone else is paying $15 there will be more customers for burgers - the Henry Ford approach.

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3 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

If you can run your business with seven guys why did you employ ten in the first place? You must be a very generous guy ... or a poor business person. Perhaps if you and everyone else is paying $15 there will be more customers for burgers - the Henry Ford approach.

Truism in biz. Short term easier and faster to cutvcosts than raise revenue.

Productivity is not fixed.

You let the least effectives go. You increase load on others and presto.

You evrr run a businrss?

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6 minutes ago, Upp3 said:

Don't think it like VAT, think it like all the taxes on top of the VAT on tobacco. I think there has been some change in number of smokers even in France, when you guide people by their wallet..

Taxes on Tobacco are working but they are well beyond 20% (about 400% at the moment apparently), when I was a student tobacco tax was probably about  50% and we were all smoking! Revenue from taxes on tobacco started to fall a few years ago, so here you go for tobacco the optimum on the Larfer curve is somewhere around 300-400% (75% of total revenue).

Anyway taxing yachts isn't going to raise much revenue, that might work better : https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/05/janet-yellen-global-minimum-corporate-tax-rate

EU will collaborate because this will protect them from the UK who's clearly decided to undercut the rest of Europe.

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19 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

Last time in Canada the saleas tax wad something like 14%

So 20% on top of that?

37% total if they do the tax on tax thing... else that's 34%.

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2 hours ago, Randro said:

Typical inward looking Yank cunt. 

You asked the question, you got an answer where it is working, not what you wanted was it?

Oooh you called me a cunt.  That's hurtful man.

That wasn't the question asked.  Work on your reading comprehension, it was about US popularity.  Good for you that you have what ever wages in AUS, I still don't care.

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1 hour ago, Foreverslow said:

UAW learned the hard way GM was could not afford to pay a flunkie $60/hr to toss a spare tire in the trunk of a Cutlass rolling down the assembly line in 1974. Sooner or later it catches up with you.

Like when they tell you that your pension is gone and you retired 3 days earlier. I hope the$60/hour was saved too...

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12 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Hey, we are pretty much having a civil discussion !! 

Way to go SA !! 

To my more right-sided friends above, I would note several points: 

First, the progressive agenda is wildly popular. The $15, M4A, wealth taxes, GND (Green New Deal) are all supported by a solid majority of USAeans - including a near plurality of Republicans. Lots of cites for this if you question it. 

Second, the progressive agenda is not pie in the sky. It is working in many countries as we speak and write. 

I've noticed that you often make up "facts"

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22 hours ago, robalex117 said:

Yes of course you can but if it is perfectly legal to buy a $1million dollar toy and register it offshore and save $150K and say FU to the tax man that is what happens.  More so when the toy cost $5million.

Agree

Horse's for course's

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18 hours ago, Expat Canuck said:

Coastal Craft

Eagle Craft / Daigle

Lifetimer

Hurricane / Zodiac

Adrenaline

... all make boats over 250K.  Any new boat over 30 ft long will easily be over that threshold.

ZH and Adrenaline sell most of the their boats as commercial vessels which (I would expect) be exempt. Daigle's bigger boats too. 

But yeah the smaller builders will suffer.

 

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59 minutes ago, Parma said:

I've noticed that you often make up "facts"

Can you cite a single fact that I have made up ?? 

Didn't think so. 

You just cannot handle the truth, 

and you prolly watch FAUX news. 

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8 hours ago, sailman said:

Care to back up any of that tripe?  [that m4A, $15 min wage, and wealth taxes are popular with USAeans] 

That is very easily done, in fact it is so easy that you should know it without citations. 

Educated people know these basic facts about their own country. 

Why don't y'all ?? 

But anyway,  

Wealth tax (which would include a tax on Big Ass Bougey boats)    favored by 64 % 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-inequality-poll/majority-of-americans-favor-wealth-tax-on-very-rich-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1Z9141

$15 min wage -    favored by 59 % 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-inequality-poll/majority-of-americans-favor-wealth-tax-on-very-rich-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1Z9141 

Medicare for All -  favored by 69% 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-inequality-poll/majority-of-americans-favor-wealth-tax-on-very-rich-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1Z9141

 

Trump Supporters.jpeg

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Yabit the Luxury Tax was still a collosal fuckup thatvcost more taxvrecenue than it earned  and destroyed a vibrant yacht industry.

Ever wonder why Van Lent, Lürssen etc became the only game in town these past two decades?

Like.l.Said. I was there and my career shaped by it. (For me in a good way but thats individual).

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On 4/19/2021 at 10:23 PM, andykane said:

future collective prosperity

Another way of kissing real prosperity good bye... as collective based economies have never been efficient nor effective 

 

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22 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

You are writing about trickle down economics which has demonstrably never, ever worked. 

We progressives believe in bubble up economics which has many facets such as raising the minimum wage. 

If our corporate overlords cared a whit about working people they would at least fight for $ 15. 

Oh my, clearly you have never passed an economics course based on more than belief... 

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6 hours ago, Randro said:

One cuntry is a basket case, the other is doing quite well thank you.

We understand your challenges, but they are ones you have brought on yourself. We have recently elected Democrats here, in an attempt to allow you and the rest of the world to catch up. Please don't dwaddle about it.

 

 

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49 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

That is very easily done, in fact it is so easy that you should know it without citations. 

Educated people know these basic facts about their own country. 

Why don't y'all ?? 

But anyway,  

Wealth tax (which would include a tax on Big Ass Bougey boats)    favored by 64 % 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-inequality-poll/majority-of-americans-favor-wealth-tax-on-very-rich-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1Z9141

$15 min wage -    favored by 59 % 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-inequality-poll/majority-of-americans-favor-wealth-tax-on-very-rich-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1Z9141 

Medicare for All -  favored by 69% 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-inequality-poll/majority-of-americans-favor-wealth-tax-on-very-rich-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1Z9141

 

 

You missed that poll on Cookies favored by 100% of toddlers. 

when you ask irresponsible people (also known as those who will respond to polls)  questions about whether other people should pay their costs for them, you get the kind of answers you cite. 

When your politics are once again validating Kipling's "Gods of the Copybook Headings" you are not on a good path. 

 

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4 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

Oh my, clearly you have never passed an economics course based on more than belief... 

You know a lot less than you think you do . . . 

A whole lot of big time economists are now questioning trickle down, austerity, and the Wash consensus. 

Stieglitz, the IMF, The Krugman, Galbraith, and dozens of others. 

Where did you study Econ ?? 

 

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1 minute ago, LionessRacing said:

when you ask irresponsible people questions

they are otherwise known as Americans. 

And a whole lot of them obviously know more than y'all 

And once again, you failed to produce a single "manipulated" stat. 

When it comes down to it, all the angry Reich has is baseless accusations and name-calling. 

Now scuse me while I go get my mast in column 

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3 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

You know a lot less than you think you do . . . 

A whole lot of big time economists are now questioning trickle down, austerity, and the Wash consensus. 

Stieglitz, the IMF, The Krugman, Galbraith, and dozens of others. 

Where did you study Econ ?? 

 

Krugman ? The original poster child for Nobels being political prizes, and that every year somebody gets one in Economics ? 

 

I studied at Rensselaer, as  elective courses in an Engineering curriculum. 

Gailbraith? He was irrelevant before my courses in mid '70's, 

That there are dozens of economists who propose failing policies is manifest in many places. Even with the compulsion of "Men with guns" the "cold dead hand" stifles innovation and squanders productivity. You could ask the Kulaks, if you could find any. 

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43 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

Yabit the Luxury Tax was still a collosal fuckup thatvcost more taxvrecenue than it earned  and destroyed a vibrant yacht industry.

Ever wonder why Van Lent, Lürssen etc became the only game in town these past two decades?

Like.l.Said. I was there and my career shaped by it. (For me in a good way but thats individual).

Me too, it put a boot in my ass to get back to IT, which turned out to be PERFECT timing :D

* kind of a side digression, but the cheapest bastards ever were the ones with 100+ footers. Yes I guess I can drive to Sears and get you a few DieHard batteries and a trolling motor charger to get your giant diesels going, but wouldn't using the right stuff cost you like 3 minutes pay :rolleyes:

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5 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

When it comes down to it, all the angry Reich has is baseless accusations and name-calling. 

 

No reason to pick on little Robert, his anger is due to his short comings....

 

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2 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

I am sorry to hear your mast has scoliosis.

To be clear, I should have written "in column and tuned". 

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5 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

they are otherwise known as Americans. 

And a whole lot of them obviously know more than y'all 

And once again, you failed to produce a single "manipulated" stat. 

Hitchens Razor applies, and the effects of 50 years of progressives dominating education has lead to the results you cite, belief if fairy tales over reality, Politics instead of science, much lower literacy, reduced competence in STEM. Nice work Professor ! 

 

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I'll repeat this for effect:

RICH PEOPLE DID NOT PAY THIS TAX AND WILL NOT.

It bones middle class people who can afford a lawyer or a boat, but not both and it bones working class people who would have fixed the boat the middle class person would have bought but didn't extra hard.

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4 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

Gailbraith? He was irrelevant before my courses in mid '70's,

Jeebus you don't know much. 

JK Galgraith (which you spelled incorrectly) had a son James who teaches at UT Austin, a great school. 

He is prolific, having written over ten books. 

Not that you would have read any of them. 

 

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4 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

It bones middle class people who can afford a lawyer or a boat, but not both and it bones working class people who would have fixed the boat the middle class person would have bought but didn't extra hard.

Not up to your usual clear writing standards. 

BTW, don't know if you read it, but the cite I gave above argues that the decline in the Big Ass Bougey boat business 

was more due to the recession. 

It is really elementary logic to point out that, just because to events occur at about the same time, it does NOT mean that one necessarily caused the other. 

As the French gent above pointed out, they have high taxes on boats but still have boat manufacturing businesses. 

Sorry so many jobs were lost, but that is what recessions do. 

And we have all (or nearly all) been there. 

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13 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

To be clear, I should have written "in column and tuned". 

I had a girl friend in middle school who had scoliosis. She went to the doctor for occasional tunings. But i did my best to get her out of column.

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6 hours ago, Foreverslow said:

What do you say to the 3 folks who now make $0 per hour?    I am going to tell them the truth.  I cannot afford them anymore.

 

5D1523B9-AC72-4E2B-85F2-B7952CB81152.jpeg

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13 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

Hitchens Razor applies, and the effects of 50 years of progressives dominating education has lead to the results you cite, belief if fairy tales over reality, Politics instead of science, much lower literacy, reduced competence in STEM. Nice work Professor ! 

 

Yeah but what about the soft sciences? They say they are science. I believe them. Don't you?

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4 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Not up to your usual clear writing standards. 

BTW, don't know if you read it, but the cite I gave above argues that the decli

As the French gent above pointed out, they have high taxes on boats but still have boat manufacturing businesses. 

Sorry so many jobs ere losions do.

Ah but you are missing the nuance. The harm was the sudden unreasonablr and clearly politically vulnerable tax.   The French "high taxes" are a constant.

The delta is the problem, not the steady state.

Fucking coup de grace.

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5 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Not up to your usual clear writing standards. 

BTW, don't know if you read it, but the cite I gave above argues that the decline in the Big Ass Bougey boat business 

was more due to the recession. 

It is really elementary logic to point out that, just because to events occur at about the same time, it does NOT mean that one necessarily caused the other. 

As the French gent above pointed out, they have high taxes on boats but still have boat manufacturing businesses. 

Sorry so many jobs were lost, but that is what recessions do. 

And we have all (or nearly all) been there. 

Dude - I was doing payroll every Friday back then and hoping to have enough left to write myself a check. This is like some random person telling John Wayne and George Lucas they don't know shit about movies or maybe someone who used to watch football on TV telling Tom Brady what he is doing wrong.

I - WAS - THERE

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Countries with M4A, high wages, etc. have higher standards of living for average folks. 

The US does not follow this model because it validates the egos of many conservatives 

when other people live badly. 

Like this . . 

5D1523B9-AC72-4E2B-85F2-B7952CB81152.jpeg

 

 

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It took the U.S. government 2 years to repeal the luxury tax. After decimating the boating industry, killing jobs like no tomorrow. And it never recovered.

Sounds good in the newspapers though!  Stick it to the rich!

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2 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I - WAS - THERE

So because I-WAS-THERE in Vietnam (1968-69), does that make my analysis of the war any more accurate than yours ???? 

No, it does not. 

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19 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Can you all can the PA bullshit and stick to just specific taxes on boats?

No, see posts above - I was not the first here to extend the analysis to the US and to other issues. 

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8 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

So because I-WAS-THERE in Vietnam (1968-69), does that make my analysis of the war any more accurate than yours ???? 

No, it does not. 

Actially yes. You lnow michpre abpit wjat ypi zsaw than srme academic or civilian "leadrr"

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1 minute ago, fastyacht said:

Actially yes. You lnow michpre abpit wjat ypi zsaw than srme academic or civilian "leadrr"

Well, on the plus side, it did radicalize me for life. 

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6 hours ago, Foreverslow said:

who gives  a shit what new dealers like?  They have nothing but opinions based on clown degrees with no basis in science or economics.

You can bully folks with regulations  on what to pay, but in the end, economics always come into play.  Just takes time. But when it does, it strikes with a vengeance.

 

You raise minimum wage to $15 and I have 10 people making $12 recurrently in my burger joint, I am going to can 3 people for I a going to make my profit for my time and investment and I cannot just pass increased costs on in a competitive world like the government can as they are a monopoly. 

What do you say to the 3 folks who now make $0 per hour?    I am going to tell them the truth.  I cannot afford them anymore.

 

I spent 40 years designing computer systems.

When the economy was good, we had lots of work. When the economy is bad we had even more work as we automated jobs so people could  be laid off. Pure ROI of what it cost us to design and operate an automated solution versus ongoing personnel costs.

In a factory setting the owners also have the option of moving the jobs overseas.

 

You want 15 bucks or better?  Go to school at night and get a degree in designing products or services people will pay for and leave that entry level job.  I do not need to pay 15 bucks to some bun hair twit to make my coffee and hand me a danish just because they are paying for a useless degree just like the UAW learned the hard way GM was could not afford to pay a flunkie $60/hr to toss a spare tire in the trunk of a Cutlass rolling down the assembly line in 1974. Sooner or later it catches up with you.

When the economy slows due to the upcoming tax hikes, there will be hell to be paid and printing funny money is not going to solve it.  Then you kiddies are going to get the dose of reality those of us who suffered from the mid 70s to late 80s lived through.   High inflation and low employment.

 

The bill is coming due in Canada for Justin's liberal policies (I have a buddy in Ottawa who rages at me every other month on the insanity).  That is going to happen in the states too.  As other have said, these liberal policies have happened before and the results were not good.   Look at the loss of revenue in Conn on the millionaire tax implemented  a couple years ago.  And now NJ is doing the same tax.  There are some stupid shits out there thinking it will work this time my B-I-L included.

 

Much as it may annoy you, that is reality.  As John Butcher crooned 30 years ago "If wishes were horses, then dreamers would ride"

 

I don't see an analysis of dealing in a different world with the burger joint and the computer company.  They are very different economic models.   Paying the $15/hr in a price fixed franchise is a bit of a pugs game that can only be approached on a governmental level.  Problem is that it has to be on a social basis.  The results of inequity are manifest and people are ignoring it.  So my friend, ditch the burger joint as fast as you can.

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45 minutes ago, silent bob said:

 

5D1523B9-AC72-4E2B-85F2-B7952CB81152.jpeg

If I were working for such an individual I would write my CV and try to find greener pastures ASAP! Next month you get fired because you were holding your pen the wrong way.

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5 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Like when they tell you that your pension is gone and you retired 3 days earlier. I hope the$60/hour was saved too...

that's Polaroid man.  The SOBs who bought the company totally FUCKED the employees and stole their pensions to pay off the junk bonds.

 

for the UAW, the past 20 years have been a slow transition from sweetheart pensions something more modest for the new hires.  Remember reading at the time of the resentment of the new employees getting less money, only a 401K and less health care benefits next to the older stiff doing the exact same job on the line.

But Olds plant in Framingham Mass is a distant memory.  And with it, that $60 gig went POOF!

 

Defined pension plans have gone the way of the doo-doo bird.  Well except in government with they still think they are special.  Look at the massive pension deficits in Chicago, California, NJ and Illinois.   They are banking on congress refilling their plans with taxpayer money from other states as part of the Great Reset which they will blame on COVID.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, LionessRacing said:

Another way of kissing real prosperity good bye... as collective based economies have never been efficient nor effective 

It isn't a dual alternative, 2007 has shown that the hand off attitude does not work. Even Greenspan who was a big fan admitted it.

Some intervention is necessary if you don't want the economy to do funny things. Right now a small minority is running away with all the money!

 

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33 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

Thats what fast food is....ditching

 

1 hour ago, LionessRacing said:

Another way of kissing real prosperity good bye... as collective based economies have never been efficient nor effective 

 

Sullair still lives.  Hutterite communities prosper.  Family farms, such as they are, are still the most effective and efficient economic units.  I don't think you have grasped that economics is a mirror of cultural process, not the other way around.  Structure does influence culture, but that is more a sociological process.

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The real Laffer curve: There is a point at which tax revenue is highest, either side of that it declines. Basically a bell curve.

What some people think it means: You get more money by lowering taxes, there is no curve, more like a ski slope. Obviously the most tax revenue comes from no taxes at all :lol::rolleyes:

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Looks like it will be a separate excise tax - new boats only, and adds to the basis for GST/HST calculation.  Full amount due when placed into service even if leased.

It is proposed that the tax apply to new boats such as yachts, recreational motorboats and sailboats, typically suitable for personal use. Smaller personal watercraft (e.g., water scooters) would be excluded from the base. For greater certainty, floating homes, commercial fishing vessels, ferries, and cruise ships would fall outside the scope of the tax. Tax Rate For vehicles and aircraft priced over $100,000, the amount of the tax would be the lesser of 10 per cent of the full value of the vehicle or the aircraft, or 20 per cent of the value above $100,000. For boats priced over $250,000, the amount of the tax would be the lesser of 10 per cent of the full value of the boat or 20 per cent of the value above $250,000.

Point of Imposition The tax would generally apply at the final point of purchase of new luxury vehicles, aircraft and boats in Canada. In the case of imports, application would generally be either at the time of importation (in cases where there will not be a further sale of the goods in Canada) or at the time of the final point of purchase in Canada following importation. Upon purchase or lease, the seller or lessor would be responsible for remitting the full amount of the federal tax owing, regardless of whether the good was purchased outright, financed, or leased over a period of time. Exports will not be subject to the tax, in line with their treatment under other taxation regimes.

Treatment under the GST/HST The GST/HST would apply to the final sale price, inclusive of the proposed tax.

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

Actially yes. You lnow michpre abpit wjat ypi zsaw than srme academic or civilian "leadrr"

Wait..... what????
You're Snaggletooth?
 

And all this time people have been telling me I was Snaggie to the point I was beginning to believe it!
Guisse I doggied a billut witte thet wonne!!

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51 minutes ago, Foreverslow said:

But Olds plant in Framingham Mass is a distant memory.  And with it, that $60 gig went POOF!

But the German auto workers are somehow able to earn $67 per hour vs. $34 in the US. (Forbes) for companies that are doing well, and making quality products. 

All the while getting six weeks off per year - PAID 

How can they do that ? 

Simple, they work smart. 

They really do - I've seen it in action. 

At the same time, the average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per .

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8 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

But the German auto workers are somehow able to earn $67 per hour vs. $34 in the US. (Forbes) for companies that are doing well, and making quality products. 

All the while getting six weeks off per year - PAID 

How can they do that ? 

Simple, they work smart. 

They really do - I've seen it in action. 

At the same time, the average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per .

Them G ermans hired a ton os Carolinians .  Thsts why they be making all dem corporate profits

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1 hour ago, AJ Oliver said:

Sorry so many jobs were lost, but that is what recessions do. 

 

Please don’t leave out the luxury tax, which came about years into a  recession, which meant that the upper middle class people looking to possibly buy a boat after years of planning and saving at that time, decided to bail on the decision until the tax was lifted or went to oversea builders. Either way, the people building Luhrs,  Pacemaker and Silverton 34’ fishing boats for recreational sport fishing in my local area, many second and third generation boatbuilders, all lost their jobs and had to find work in different industries if possible.

 

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13 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

But the German auto workers are somehow able to earn $67 per hour vs. $34 in the US. (Forbes) for companies that are doing well, and making quality products. 

All the while getting six weeks off per year - PAID 

How can they do that ? 

Simple, they work smart. 

They really do - I've seen it in action. 

At the same time, the average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per .

I won’t Google it, so can you tell us the tax rate in Germany. That might give a bette gauge of how much cash goes into their bank account vs US.

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3 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

Them G ermans hired a ton os Carolinians .  Thsts why they be making all dem corporate profits

Obviously not the only reason. The German companies were successful long before that. 

Back when, my Dad used to let me take his Mercedes 190SL on weekend dates. 

The good old days !!  

Green Mercedes Benz #190SL. Pic via instagram / #190SLRestorations  #bruceadams190SL | Dream cars, Palm beach, Mercedes benz

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8 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I won’t Google it, so can you tell us the tax rate in Germany. That might give a bette gauge of how much cash goes into their bank account vs US.

I tire of doing your homework for you. 

image.jpeg.51af4b865ff53c1f7efcffb7f3d72766.jpeg

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36 minutes ago, Laker said:

I don't see an analysis of dealing in a different world with the burger joint and the computer company.  They are very different economic models.   Paying the $15/hr in a price fixed franchise is a bit of a pugs game that can only be approached on a governmental level.  Problem is that it has to be on a social basis.  The results of inequity are manifest and people are ignoring it.  So my friend, ditch the burger joint as fast as you can.

This is supposed to be about stupid taxes, but to answer your question: No they are not different models.

For ANY good or service, there is a price people are willing to pay. You cannot charge more unless you have a monopoly like the government. With competition, if your expenses get too high you either cut the costs or FAIL.  This applies to big and small companies.

 

 

Here are examples of employees thinking they were owned something for just showing up, but found out differently when their job disappeared:

In the early 70s I remember the 6 pm news with strikes all the time but the most constant were Ma Bell (think AT&T) telephone operators looking for more money and benefits.  Over the course of 15 years, AT&T automated ALL of it.  When was the last time you actually talked to an operator??    at&T no longer gets outages due to strikes and their operational costs are down.  And then they turned on their systems people.  Back in the late 80s, the senior VP of engineering at AT&T loved to ski in Colorado.  He thought the lifestyle was the greatest. So he moved the engineering team out there.  Well life was good but projects were not being completed on time and costs soared. Without him knowing, the board built a new team of engineers in a windowless building in Northern NJ and had them build the same projects as the Colorado team.  The NJ team got theirs done on time and the board canned the VP and everyone in Colorado.  They were already saving buku bucks but that was not good enough.

 

UAW did the same looking for stupid overly generous benefits just to justify the union's existence.   hourly rates, sick time rules, pension plans.  Labor costs went crazy.  So the big 3 went in big time for robots.  the foreign competitors used to travel to the US just to see how they did it.   The number of employees needed to build an auto fell and those jobs were gone forever.

 

Burger Joint example you say? 

You ever been to a Burger King?   You know when you order your food and they hand you the cup to go fill up your drink?  Well that USED to be BK employee's job, but they got rid of it to help pay for the increasing min wage in the late 90s.

 

I have automated and eliminated the jobs of stockroom personnel, technical support engineers, contact negotiators, and business planners around the world. Most these people had real degrees and technical skills.     I could re-engineer any process and in doing so find ways to take out cost which usually is in labor.  Yes, even the dreaded off-shoring.    I do not feel bad about it.  I know they will can my ass if I put up a hissy-fit.  As the mob likes to say "Its just business..".

 

My  $2K Jura automated coffee maker from Austria that makes a superb cup of coffee I will put against anything and anyone.  It does this by grinding the beans for the cup and compressing them, heating and mixing the water, and putting into a cup of a size I determine, and then cleaning out the grounds ready for the next cup.  Has a timer if I want to wake up to my Joe ready to drink.  Unit is good for 7-10 years of constant use before  the need to send it in for a rebuild.    the higher priced models have automated the fancy coffee drinks.    Many law firms, doctor offices and auto dealerships have them so that they no longer need a person to make coffee for their staff and customers.      So as far as I am concerned, those baristas are on borrowed time.

 

Bottom line: Get your labor costs out of line, and the owner is going to find a way to re-align costs usually in ways one will not like (eg just passing on the costs).  In this case it will be the government with stupid policies who will force the firing of those folks with lower skills and who need a job the most...

It is called the law of unintended consequences.

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1 minute ago, Foreverslow said:

My  $2K Jura automated coffee maker from Austria

You drop $2K on a coffee maker and bitch about someone making $15 an hour?

:wacko:

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4 minutes ago, Foreverslow said:

This is supposed to be about stupid taxes, but to answer your question: No they are not different models.

For ANY good or service, there is a price people are willing to pay. You cannot charge more unless you have a monopoly like the government. With competition, if your expenses get too high you either cut the costs or FAIL.  This applies to big and small companies.

 

 

Here are examples of employees thinking they were owned something for just showing up, but found out differently when their job disappeared:

In the early 70s I remember the 6 pm news with strikes all the time but the most constant were Ma Bell (think AT&T) telephone operators looking for more money and benefits.  Over the course of 15 years, AT&T automated ALL of it.  When was the last time you actually talked to an operator??    at&T no longer gets outages due to strikes and their operational costs are down.  And then they turned on their systems people.  Back in the late 80s, the senior VP of engineering at AT&T loved to ski in Colorado.  He thought the lifestyle was the greatest. So he moved the engineering team out there.  Well life was good but projects were not being completed on time and costs soared. Without him knowing, the board built a new team of engineers in a windowless building in Northern NJ and had them build the same projects as the Colorado team.  The NJ team got theirs done on time and the board canned the VP and everyone in Colorado.  They were already saving buku bucks but that was not good enough.

 

UAW did the same looking for stupid overly generous benefits just to justify the union's existence.   hourly rates, sick time rules, pension plans.  Labor costs went crazy.  So the big 3 went in big time for robots.  the foreign competitors used to travel to the US just to see how they did it.   The number of employees needed to build an auto fell and those jobs were gone forever.

 

Burger Joint example you say? 

You ever been to a Burger King?   You know when you order your food and they hand you the cup to go fill up your drink?  Well that USED to be BK employee's job, but they got rid of it to help pay for the increasing min wage in the late 90s.

 

I have automated and eliminated the jobs of stockroom personnel, technical support engineers, contact negotiators, and business planners around the world. Most these people had real degrees and technical skills.     I could re-engineer any process and in doing so find ways to take out cost which usually is in labor.  Yes, even the dreaded off-shoring.    I do not feel bad about it.  I know they will can my ass if I put up a hissy-fit.  As the mob likes to say "Its just business..".

 

My  $2K Jura automated coffee maker from Austria that makes a superb cup of coffee I will put against anything and anyone.  It does this by grinding the beans for the cup and compressing them, heating and mixing the water, and putting into a cup of a size I determine, and then cleaning out the grounds ready for the next cup.  Has a timer if I want to wake up to my Joe ready to drink.  Unit is good for 7-10 years of constant use before  the need to send it in for a rebuild.    the higher priced models have automated the fancy coffee drinks.    Many law firms, doctor offices and auto dealerships have them so that they no longer need a person to make coffee for their staff and customers.      So as far as I am concerned, those baristas are on borrowed time.

 

Bottom line: Get your labor costs out of line, and the owner is going to find a way to re-align costs usually in ways one will not like (eg just passing on the costs).  In this case it will be the government with stupid policies who will force the firing of those folks with lower skills and who need a job the most...

It is called the law of unintended consequences.

So a perfect free market in such things as frozen peas is the same market as, say, an engineering services market where you need to be a P.Eng.?

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5 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

That might level the playing field a little per man hour worked.

F88D3A92-5D93-4F7F-A2E8-A3D62D31AE28.jpeg

15B3FA6F-C37D-45FE-B6B8-DA0428FF1A4C.jpeg

To be fair if you deduct taxes from the German worker salary you have to remove healthcare costs from the US worker's.

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17 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

You drop $2K on a coffee maker and bitch about someone making $15 an hour?

:wacko:

sure.  It has a great ROI over 7 years versus your $6 paper cup of coffee every morning.

and I do not have to get in line or take any shit from some flunky who thinks they smart, or listen to the buttheads/Karens in line in front of me.

 

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I don't have good solutions but...technology is always going to replace manual and now brain labor. 

As for unions...clearly some here haven't worked with German labor unions.  Ugh. Much worse than anything I ran into in the US.  The most pro-employer unions were in....China :D 

Anyway, the US has been a regulated oligopoly since day one and the government has been picking winners and losers since it was a government.  Just like most places - we just remember that fact selectively. 

Min wage jobs in the US are essentially subsidized by the gubmint. We could be spending it in smarter ways. I think people forget that employees in many "shithole" countries have more protections and get better benefits than US employees.  

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$15/hr? 

That's not fair: think of the struggling CEOs, and what they suffer when their companies post losses:

"BP shareholders voted last week [last year] against a 20% hike in CEO Bob Dudley's pay package to $19.6 million for 2015, when the oil company posted a huge loss. Dudley will still get his cash because the vote wasn't binding on the company -- shareholders only get a real vote on company pay policy every three years." 

CDN $15 = 30K per year. Old Global Rich list has been taken down, but that still puts our minimum wage earners here into the top 5%

Think of what the CEOs could do with an extra buck an hour.

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41 minutes ago, Foreverslow said:

sure.  It has a great ROI over 7 years versus your $6 paper cup of coffee every morning.

and I do not have to get in line or take any shit from some flunky who thinks they smart, or listen to the buttheads/Karens in line in front of me.

 

French press. $2 garage sale.

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21 minutes ago, Elegua said:

I don't have good solutions but...technology is always going to replace manual and now brain labor. 

As for unions...clearly some here haven't worked with German labor unions.  Ugh. Much worse than anything I ran into in the US.  The most pro-employer unions were in....China :D 

Anyway, the US has been a regulated oligopoly since day one and the government has been picking winners and losers since it was a government.  Just like most places - we just remember that fact selectively. 

Min wage jobs in the US are essentially subsidized by the gubmint. We could be spending it in smarter ways. I think people forget that employees in many "shithole" countries have more protections and get better benefits than US employees.  

Section 8, AFDC, Food Stamps. All used by a surprising number of fully employed people. The question I have always asked is, "why aren't the employers taxed a claw-back for that?"

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51 minutes ago, Foreverslow said:

sure.  It has a great ROI over 7 years versus your $6 paper cup of coffee every morning.

and I do not have to get in line or take any shit from some flunky who thinks they smart, or listen to the buttheads/Karens in line in front of me.

 

I can't remember the last time I bought tea or coffee in a paper cup. Tea only, only at home. About once every two years I'll have a cup of coffee away from home. My deluxe teapot has great ROI, we got it free from my wife's aunt.

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16 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I can't remember the last time I bought tea or coffee in a paper cup. Tea only, only at home. About once every two years I'll have a cup of coffee away from home. My deluxe teapot has great ROI, we got it free from my wife's aunt.

Hu Kwa here.

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