Jump to content

Elan S4... Anyone know this boat?


Recommended Posts

Anyone have any experience with an Elan S4 (35ft)?  Can't find a PHRF rating for it.  Looks like a pretty cool boat.  

Thanks!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks be about 800-900 lbs heavier than a J/109.  That and the wide butt/twin rudder thing might make it sticky in summertime light airs.  might have a bit more sail area though, so ???

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Crash said:

Looks be about 800-900 lbs heavier than a J/109.  That and the wide butt/twin rudder thing might make it sticky in summertime light airs.  might have a bit more sail area though, so ???

We've looked at two J 109's so far (NY and CT)... 2005 and '04, and were told by another J109 broker that it would probably not be worth our 700 mile round trip to look at his 2004 "tired J109" in CT.  Very cool boats on paper, but they are old, and look it.   Spoiled by our 2009 X-34.  Should have never sold it.  

Looking at YachtWorld every day for another good boat to pop up.  They are very few and far between.  Very frustrating!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Draft of 7' 1 might be the dealbreaker in your neck of the woods, there is 2-3 in AKL NZ and they seem good cruiser racers, talked to a guy that delivered one down from Singapore on its own bottom to NZ and he was suitably impressed at their performance.

Haven't sailed one myself although twin rudders and a wide ass might make it sticky in the light stuff.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Navig8tor said:

Draft of 7' 1 might be the dealbreaker in your neck of the woods, there is 2-3 in AKL NZ and they seem good cruiser racers, talked to a guy that delivered one down from Singapore on its own bottom to NZ and he was suitably impressed at their performance.

Haven't sailed one myself although twin rudders and a wide ass might make it sticky in the light stuff.

We raced and cruised a Bene 36.7 in the Chesapeake with a 7 ft draft for 8 years, so deep draft is ok with me.  Also, have just now found the ORC GPH rating for the Elan S4 to be 597.8, with J109 being 613.6 and X-34 being 617.8.  VPPs at 6 kts are 3.66, 3.55, and 3.29 respectively for comparable beat angles of 43.6 deg, 42.3 deg, and 42.9 deg.

Thanks Crash and Navig8tor.  All other inputs appreciated...

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Foxtrot Corpen said:

We've looked at two J 109's so far (NY and CT)... 2005 and '04, and were told by another J109 broker that it would probably not be worth our 700 mile round trip to look at his 2004 "tired J109" in CT.  Very cool boats on paper, but they are old, and look it.   Spoiled by our 2009 X-34.  Should have never sold it.  

Looking at YachtWorld every day for another good boat to pop up.  They are very few and far between.  Very frustrating!

When we were looking for our last boat, we looked at 2 109s.  One was in well above average condition.  It was owned by a guy out of Newport Beach who had a 2 boat program (other boat was a TP 52 I think).  Nice boat, well cared for, reasonably priced.  The second boat was owned by a guy up in San Francisco.  He had bought the boat from a repo.  Boat had been trashed, and he'd brought it back up to spec.  It was spectacular.  Looked almost brand new.  So good boats were out there pre-covid.  What Covid gives (a good seller's market, making it a good time to sell the old boat) it also takes away (its a lousy time to be trying to buy another boat).  I think patience is key right now...even if that means going without a boat this year.  

Good boats will come on the market.  You just need to be patient till they do, then be ready to commit as soon as you find a good one.

I know, easy for me to say....hang in there my friend!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Foxtrot Corpen said:

We've looked at two J 109's so far (NY and CT)... 2005 and '04, and were told by another J109 broker that it would probably not be worth our 700 mile round trip to look at his 2004 "tired J109" in CT.  Very cool boats on paper, but they are old, and look it.   Spoiled by our 2009 X-34.  Should have never sold it.  

Looking at YachtWorld every day for another good boat to pop up.  They are very few and far between.  Very frustrating!

 

04-'05 old   lol.. dang, my '65 is a little ancient then...    '

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some pics in this tread: 

a Norwegian sailor bought one in Croatsia (?), had it shipped home. I read on the net that the boat was fine after the crossing, and accepted by the owner.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The one on the stormy ship thread is a Elan S5 (39-40 ft). Very different boat. Have sailed on both S4 and S5. Both was very performance optimized by the owners and "empty" for weight.

The S4 is, as people have mentioned, a bit too heavy. Fun'ish off the wind in a big breeze, but there are better boats out there. It takes quite a bit before the hull lifts out of the water. Not fun at all up wind. I know a few owners who have thrown out doors, ceiling, flooring etc to get it to perform. If you buy one, let me know, and I can connect you with people who have spent years optimising them.

S5 is a much better boat on all angles, slightly newer design and not the same "too heavy" feel. But probably a bit different price point than you are thinking.

Good boats that you choose if the interior matters most, if performance matters more than the interior I would definitely choose something else.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

 

04-'05 old   lol.. dang, my '65 is a little ancient then...    '

Well, Grande Mastere Dreade.... I guess our 1983 Shannon 28 that we sold a couple years ago was semi-ancient too.   :)

...FC

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, money drain said:

The one on the stormy ship thread is a Elan S5 (39-40 ft). Very different boat. Have sailed on both S4 and S5. Both was very performance optimized by the owners and "empty" for weight.

The S4 is, as people have mentioned, a bit too heavy. Fun'ish off the wind in a big breeze, but there are better boats out there. It takes quite a bit before the hull lifts out of the water. Not fun at all up wind. I know a few owners who have thrown out doors, ceiling, flooring etc to get it to perform. If you buy one, let me know, and I can connect you with people who have spent years optimising them.

S5 is a much better boat on all angles, slightly newer design and not the same "too heavy" feel. But probably a bit different price point than you are thinking.

Good boats that you choose if the interior matters most, if performance matters more than the interior I would definitely choose something else.

Good info, money drain.   I had told my wife that the Elan is 1,000 lbs lighter than the X-34 that we just sold.  Her response after me reading her your post, "Well... then we just need to buy something 5,000 lbs lighter".   Gotta love that girl... a real player!  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/21/2021 at 10:30 PM, Foxtrot Corpen said:

We've looked at two J 109's so far (NY and CT)... 2005 and '04, and were told by another J109 broker that it would probably not be worth our 700 mile round trip to look at his 2004 "tired J109" in CT.  Very cool boats on paper, but they are old, and look it.   Spoiled by our 2009 X-34.  Should have never sold it.  

Looking at YachtWorld every day for another good boat to pop up.  They are very few and far between.  Very frustrating!

There's an XP-38 for sale at Jabins.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Foxtrot Corpen said:

Good info, money drain.   I had told my wife that the Elan is 1,000 lbs lighter than the X-34 that we just sold.  Her response after me reading her your post, "Well... then we just need to buy something 5,000 lbs lighter".   Gotta love that girl... a real player!  

I might be a bit "extreme" in my judgement, the owners of them locally seem to love them in spite of the things I've mentioned. But I don't think I'm too far off from an objective standpoint. Keep in mind there's a lot of wet surface without heel on them.

Also make sure that the boat has a deep keel and not a shallow one (one of my friends upgraded to the deeper keel; he told me he was free to all the upgrades which wasn't visible for his wife - I think she spotted his new rod rigging though). This is essential I think.

Anyway, reiterating my point about comfort; I feel the elan's is luxury apartments compared to my First 40. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Aw... I'll bet your First 40 isn't all that spartan.  We raced our First 36.7 for 8 years and never thought of her lacking interior comfort.  Spent a lot of nights sleeping on the boat at off-site regattas.

...FC

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Foxtrot Corpen said:

Aw... I'll bet your First 40 isn't all that spartan.  We raced our First 36.7 for 8 years and never thought of her lacking interior comfort.  Spent a lot of nights sleeping on the boat at off-site regattas.

...FC

For me - not at all. But I have thrown out the saloon table, which included the hot water calorifier, and most non-sailing friends now believe it's too spartan for anything beyond a weekend :). It became much better under sail (and on the docks after off-site races) now that I freed up space below for sails.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yes... I likewise took out salon table and cabin doors (except to head) in both the Bene 36.7 and the X-34.  While at home, always raced without any cushions (except nav table seat).  Cushions always stay nice in a big warm and dry closet.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Slick470 said:

FC what were your thoughts on the X-34 that you just sold? It looked like a very nice boat from the listing. 

The X-34 is a great boat.   Hellcat is a 2009 and looks brand new.  Has a classic cruisable interior.  Was reasonably fast, and I think we sailed to (or better) to its 96 PHRF rating.  We did very well when racing with other A2 boats as in the AYC Fall Race to Solomons... 3rd of 10 in 2019 and 5th of 12 in 2018.  Beat a bunch of very competative A2 boats at Stingray Pt Regatta in Deltaville in '18 and '19 (missed 3rd on a tie-breaker).  We loved the boat.  Wish we had kept it.

Had a tough time competing against 2 Melges 32's, Hedo 30, J111, Far 395,  2 J105's, and Mumm 36 in our local A fleet at SMSA.  Thought about putting a Selden above deck sprit on it to try and keep up with the Asym boats in our club.  Didn't want to "poke holes" in the foredeck.

Mark got a GREAT boat!

...FC

Link to post
Share on other sites

XP 33 is an interesting boat.  Its got an asym and pole like FC wants.  It also seems to fall right into the "boundaries" of performance and comfort he is looking for...

Boat                   LOA               LWL             Draft             Disp              SA                  SA/Disp               Disp/L

X-34                   34.0              29.82           6.23              11,684          639.3               19.94                  196.7

J/109                  35.25            30.5              7.0                10,900         644.4                21                       171.5

J/99                    32.6              28.6             6.54               8,415           571                    22.15                  160.6

J/97                    31.53             26.6             6.3                 8,600          498                    19.04                 203.99

XP 33                    32.78               29.07             6.23                 9,480            610                        21.86                    172.28   

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Foxtrot Corpen said:

The X-34 is a great boat.   Hellcat is a 2009 and looks brand new.  Has a classic cruisable interior.  Was reasonably fast, and I think we sailed to (or better) to its 96 PHRF rating.  We did very well when racing with other A2 boats as in the AYC Fall Race to Solomons... 3rd of 10 in 2019 and 5th of 12 in 2018.  Beat a bunch of very competative A2 boats at Stingray Pt Regatta in Deltaville in '18 and '19 (missed 3rd on a tie-breaker).  We loved the boat.  Wish we had kept it.

Had a tough time competing against 2 Melges 32's, Hedo 30, J111, Far 395,  2 J105's, and Mumm 36 in our local A fleet at SMSA.  Thought about putting a Selden above deck sprit on it to try and keep up with the Asym boats in our club.  Didn't want to "poke holes" in the foredeck.

Mark got a GREAT boat!

...FC

Thanks for the response. Your boat popped up in my YW search at some point and made me wish I had a better boat budget. They don't seem all that common and it seemed like a good balance of racer cruiser and looked good too. 

Good luck in your search for the next boat. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Slick470 said:

Thanks for the response. Your boat popped up in my YW search at some point and made me wish I had a better boat budget. They don't seem all that common and it seemed like a good balance of racer cruiser and looked good too. 

Good luck in your search for the next boat. 

Thanks Slick470.

BYW... Only three X-34's show up in the Yacht World brokers' database as having been sold in the US since 2014...  our '09 model twice, an '08 in NY in 2018, and another '08 in CT in 2014.  I don't know how many are out there in  the US, but they surely don't come up for sale very often. 

There's now an Xp-33 for sale in Annapolis and an X-35 in Nova Scotia.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

FC, the Xp-33 also looks like a very nice boat, but I don't think I'd convince my wife to get another tiller boat, especially if we went up in size from our 30 footer. The cockpit benches seem pretty short too. 

To me the X-34 looks a lot like a more modern version of an Express 34 or Olson 34 and I'm a big fan of those boats. 

It's all day dreaming at this point anyway, but sometimes a newer boat would be nice. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...