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The Joys of Civilization


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So the last year has been wierd for sure.  Have done several thousand miles from Ft lauderdale to PV through four countries and been pretty safe.  That is till I finally came back to work in Seattle for one week and got sick!?!?!  The upside is after a couple nasty days it seems to be over.  A serious word of caution.  I was in a small isolated group on a ship with a strict protocol in place.  The kicker is almost all of us are vaccinated and still ended up being pass thru cases.  We are guinea pigs in a nice facility for ten days so the state can monitor.  It would seem the Vaccine is doing it's thing as no one is very sick and all are doing well.  So please go get vaccinated and after you do, don't let your guard down because we are definitely not out of the woods yet!!!

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Yeah, despite being vaccinated, we're keeping our guard up, masking, keeping our distance. WA is spiking along with OR and CO where we have family. Some counties in WA are going backwards in reopening phases.

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31 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

So the last year has been wierd for sure.  Have done several thousand miles from Ft lauderdale to PV through four countries and been pretty safe.  That is till I finally came back to work in Seattle for one week and got sick!?!?!  The upside is after a couple nasty days it seems to be over.  A serious word of caution.  I was in a small isolated group on a ship with a strict protocol in place.  The kicker is almost all of us are vaccinated and still ended up being pass thru cases.  We are guinea pigs in a nice facility for ten days so the state can monitor.  It would seem the Vaccine is doing it's thing as no one is very sick and all are doing well.  So please go get vaccinated and after you do, don't let your guard down because we are definitely not out of the woods yet!!!

Which vaccine did you receive? I've read about breakthrough cases but to date have not heard of anyone we personally know having that happen. I do know of two friends who got Covid within 7 days of their first jab.

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JJ and Moderna I think, all were over a month from full Vac.  As above everyone is doing well that's the big point, but you still have to be careful.

We were super careful while cruising, it was actually alot easier on the boat.  At work the social distancing is tough on a ship when you are dealing with venders have to be heard in noisy areas etc. Also rely heavy on honor system questions.  I was lucky and had access to rapid test kits in my own state rm so was able to test myself as soon as I suspected symptoms.  We definitely saw a trend from Nicaragua to Mexico of increasing easing in tourist actions.  Have alot of older friends who got vaccinated and we're still vigilant but on the other end there were many who got the shot and went full 180 back to normal mode.

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Sass,

Just to be clear, you and your friends had both your shots (Moderna or J&J) and after a month several of you came down with Covid? With the vaccine on the order of 95% effective that is astounding several of you were not immune. How many fully vaccinated friends besides you got sick?

Thanks!

Eddie

 

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Don't have all the details as I had to go straight to camp covid, I think it was 5 of 8 or 10 fully vaccinated over a month ago positive. It was wierd enough for the state to be interested.

Be safe!

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The 95% efficacy is based on ordinary community exposure (I think) - not confinement in a contaminated environment.  That is, they didn't go out and deliberately infect anybody to test the vaccine.  

I hope everyone remains "well!"

(Just got the first shot yesterday!  Using "vaccine fatigue" as an excuse not to do all sorts of things but I think people see through it if I take the boat out...)

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For context this is a work environment with 140 crew who have made it 12 months with no issues.  I think it's either law of averages or going from Hyper vigilant to just really vigilant.  The entire crew was vaccinated except two persons.  So back to hyper vigilant it is.  My purpose in this post is to dispel the concept of invulnerability once vaccinated.  This may be a very rare case but it can happen so please continue to use caution.

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7 hours ago, ChuteFirst said:

Sass,

Just to be clear, you and your friends had both your shots (Moderna or J&J) and after a month several of you came down with Covid? With the vaccine on the order of 95% effective that is astounding several of you were not immune. How many fully vaccinated friends besides you got sick?

The 95% efficacy numbers were based on clinical trials against the dominant strains about a year ago. The dominant strain in WA these days is the British variant so efficacy is lower. 

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Just now, IStream said:

The 95% efficacy numbers were based on clinical trials against the dominant strains about a year ago. The dominant strain in WA these days is the British variant so efficacy is lower. 

There was a major outbreak of the Brazilian variant in Whistler, many of the people working there move out to Tofino for the summer jobs. Whoopee.

However, only essential travel allowed to the island and between health authorities as of right now.

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2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

There was a major outbreak of the Brazilian variant in Whistler, many of the people working there move out to Tofino for the summer jobs. Whoopee.

However, only essential travel allowed to the island and between health authorities as of right now.

I've spoken with a lot of Canadian business colleagues who recently got their vaccines. Is availability increasing?

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Yep.

I've had my first and the other day they announced the lower age has been dropped to 30.

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14 hours ago, toddster said:

The 95% efficacy is based on ordinary community exposure (I think) - not confinement in a contaminated environment.  That is, they didn't go out and deliberately infect anybody to test the vaccine.  

I hope everyone remains "well!"

(Just got the first shot yesterday!  Using "vaccine fatigue" as an excuse not to do all sorts of things but I think people see through it if I take the boat out...)

I was wondering the same thing. Sass's case is more prolonged, more intensive exposure than normal (like submarines would be) and possibly of a variant that sneaks past the vaccine.

I'm fully vaxxed. I don't think I'm invulnerable but the purpose of the vaccine is to improve quality of life. Shutting myself in is not what I consider an improvement.

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40 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I'm fully vaxxed. I don't think I'm invulnerable but the purpose of the vaccine is to improve quality of save lives. Shutting myself in is not what I consider an improvement.

FIFY

Not shutting myself in unless required (my area is currently seeing a surge of variant strains, so we have some restrictions) but wearing a mask and social distancing is in my future for a while yet. YMMV.

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8 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Yep.

I've had my first and the other day they announced the lower age has been dropped to 30.

Glad to hear it. Can't wait for the Cheese Curtain to rise.

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FYI for any one in Seattle metro area City of Seattle is doing a great job.  I've been scrambling to get my daughter vaccinated and had her on several wait-lists.  City of Seattle started to send out stuff a few days ago and have tons of open slots as well as a very clear web form.  Went through Albertsons last week and it was a nightmare. All web info and scheduling said it was Phizer, when Kid showed up it was Moderna and she was turned away because she is 17.  All other outlets have been full to date but the City seems to have it together.

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3 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

FYI for any one in Seattle metro area City of Seattle is doing a great job.  I've been scrambling to get my daughter vaccinated and had her on several wait-lists.  City of Seattle started to send out stuff a few days ago and have tons of open slots as well as a very clear web form.  Went through Albertsons last week and it was a nightmare. All web info and scheduling said it was Phizer, when Kid showed up it was Moderna and she was turned away because she is 17.  All other outlets have been full to date but the City seems to have it together.

Can confirm. I got the wife and eldest child on the city and UW waitlists the instant they were eligible but the UW came through first. Since then, I've gotten frequent notices of availability from the city and I went through their reg process 99% to done just to see how it went. As a good friend likes to say, they've got it dicked.

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10 hours ago, Jim in Halifax said:

FIFY

Not shutting myself in unless required (my area is currently seeing a surge of variant strains, so we have some restrictions) but wearing a mask and social distancing is in my future for a while yet. YMMV.

Why save lives if the quality of life is poor?

Living to a very old age is sometimes a curse not a blessing. There is more than pure survival at stake. 

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9 hours ago, Ajax said:

Why save lives if the quality of life is poor?

Living to a very old age is sometimes a curse not a blessing. There is more than pure survival at stake. 

I couldn't agree more about quality of life but, right now, with only one dose of Pfizer in me, I am trying very hard not to catch the damn thing even if it might not (probably not?) kill me... so when a bunch of 20+ assholes from the local uni have a party because they think life should be more 'normal' I say: keep the restrictions, the masks, and the social distance until this virus is headed over the same horizon as polio, and smallpox... /RANT OFF

PS: restrictions and regulations are only in place because some self-centred bastards can only think of themselves - no regard for their fellow beings.../2nd RANT OFF

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55 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

I was not implying YOU are selfish Ajax. Just ranting.

Noted.  You're not fully vaccinated yet so I understand your frustration. I'm also not implying that once fully vaccinated that you should immerse yourself in a mosh pit full of covid infected Gen-Z'ers at a rave.

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We were fully vaccinated in January. Our kids , 23 and 33, came here for shots because their local governments had rules on who was eligible. As a result, they got vaccinated before their 92 year old grandmother in RI, where the government had rules based on "equity". 

They shut down the county mass vaccination site last week for lack of customers. It was brilliantly run. You called or went online for a next-day appointment, do not show up early. When you arrived, you got the shot in your car within a couple of minutes, were directed to a waiting zone, when it was time to leave a nurse came to your car, asked how you felt, sent you on your way.

Now you go to the largest grocery store in town. Same deal, make a next day appointment, don't show up early, on your way in a few minutes. 

We have "vaccine tourists" coming from Austin, Dallas, New Mexico. The local government pretty much decided against any eligibility rules in favor of getting as much of the population vaccinated as possible, as fast as possible. 

A good friend of mine is the chief of medicine at our local hospital and was largely responsible for the policy, I think he's done a brilliant job. 

The development and rapid production of these vaccines was a triumph of government working with Pharma. Now the race is on to stay ahead of the variants. 

 

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Florida was a complete shit-show.  There are low propensity communities that have vaccination slots open.  The Palm Beach crowd just paid to jump the queue. 

Now that I'm vaccinated, I don't think I'm going to go down to the local bar for a beer just yet, and I'll still mask up out of politeness, but it is a relief.  I'm looking forward to sailing in company again. My parents got a mint Seasprite 34 this last Winter, so it'll be fun to cruise together. 

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People suck. Vax or no, I don't feel a pressing desire to visit malls, theaters, restaurants or bars to mix it up with a bunch of total strangers.

I may never go back to the way things were before. I have enough good booze to survive 3 pandemics. The garden is already producing veg. The crabs will be running soon, and we'll start harvesting them off the dock. We got a beehive a few weeks ago. They are hard at work pollinating our apple trees. We'll have 5-10 lbs of honey later.

When we want to socialize, people visit us or we visit them. We don't really "go out" anymore.

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3 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

...

The development and rapid production of these vaccines was a triumph of government working with Pharma. Now the race is on to stay ahead of the variants. 

 

Could not agree more. However, it needs to be appreciated (and is not enough reported) that this rapid development was was built on a foundation of decades of basic research into seemingly arcane areas of computing, biology, and medicine. And that funding for that effort was touch and go, even before research funding dropped to our current pathetic levels.

It's like growing mushrooms- the mycelium exists and grows underground for years, then the mushroom appears to pop up suddenly when it rains. 

The best way to defeat variants is to vaccinate enough people globally that the virus is increasingly deprived of the opportunity to produce more variants. It's amazing how so many can't seem to grasp the fact that vaccinations against infectious diseases are not just to protect you as an individual, they are to protect the community we live in. 

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The heavy lifting has been done. Updating for variants is relatively easy. The biggest obstacle to vaccine development is generally the regulatory because you are putting it in a healthy and younger population. 

Just wait a couple years. The things that are being accomplished as we begin to understand and harness our immune systems are pretty wild. Think targeted once-and-done cancer therapies with no chemo...as just one example. 

mRNA as a technology dates back to the 90's. There'm much more crazy stuff out there now. 

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guys . . . i would just note #1 there is in fact a whole forum here specifically for corona discussion. Yea it is a bit of a toxic waste dump but that's because #2 Vaccine and vaccine discussion is pretty complicated - actual rocket science stuff unlike (most) cruising discussion - and has been politicized so it is difficult to hold an adult conversation in forums like this.

It obviously affects our cruising lives, and tangential mentions in passing in that regards make perfect sense here but going beyond that . . . . i personally would rather see hot girls :)

 

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1 hour ago, estarzinger said:

guys . . . i would just note #1 there is in fact a whole forum here specifically for corona discussion. Yea it is a bit of a toxic waste dump but that's because #2 Vaccine and vaccine discussion is pretty complicated - actual rocket science stuff unlike (most) cruising discussion - and has been politicized so it is difficult to hold an adult conversation in forums like this.

It obviously affects our cruising lives, and tangential mentions in passing in that regards make perfect sense here but going beyond that . . . . i personally would rather see hot girls :)

 

Well mentioning covid, anchors and apparently roller furlers are all sure fire thread derailments but.... If you go back to post one it's about Cruising and in a nut shell my notion that we seemed to be pretty safe doing it vs. not doing it.  If you want boobs both kinds are covered in GA and PA.

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12 hours ago, Jim in Halifax said:

PS: restrictions and regulations are only in place because some self-centred bastards can only think of themselves - no regard for their fellow beings.../2nd RANT OFF

That's partly true, but not entirely so.  The restrictions also provide guidance for those with poor judgement.  For example, we had a 2km rule, later relaxed to 5km: clear, simple.  You can break that 2km limit only to get food or go to essential work which is defined categories).

Secondly, the rules give people power to resist other pressures.  No granny, I can't come for your birthday because I am not allowed.  No, Rosin, I can't come to discuss the camogie team with you, 'cos I am banned.  Etc.

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What? You've never been to talent show night at the American Society for Microbiology convention?  Or as they call it now, "Microbe 2021."

It goes without saying that everybody gets liquored up first.

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Drift is life. Or maybe vice versa. To me civilization is simply ice cubes you can put in your drink without fear of gastric distress. 

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On 4/25/2021 at 9:18 AM, IStream said:

The 95% efficacy numbers were based on clinical trials against the dominant strains about a year ago. The dominant strain in WA these days is the British variant so efficacy is lower. 

And the efficacy quoted was from studies of the ability of the vaccine to prevent serious disease, not to prevent infection or transmission. The numbers are only just coming in for the ability to prevent transmission and they are much lower. Which means the vaccines are very important for saving lives, and eventually reducing transmission, but you should not assume that because you are vaccinated you won't get COVID and pass it on to someone else.

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14 hours ago, Mark Morwood said:

And the efficacy quoted was from studies of the ability of the vaccine to prevent serious disease, not to prevent infection or transmission.

Not to nitpick, but I think that the efficacy IS based on preventing infection (95% efficacy). The serious disease (ie hospitalization) rate is near zero.

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2 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

Not to nitpick, but I think that the efficacy IS based on preventing infection (95% efficacy). The serious disease (ie hospitalization) rate is near zero.

This.

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On 4/28/2021 at 9:18 PM, Israel Hands said:

Not to nitpick, but I think that the efficacy IS based on preventing infection (95% efficacy). The serious disease (ie hospitalization) rate is near zero.

Thanks. You are right on the serious disease rate. I went back to re-read the study and I was not right to say serious disease, I should have said cases - which I think are just detected infections. There are ongoing studies working out how effective they are at stopping infection that does not get detected as a case - presumably very mild or asymptomatic infections which may or may not cause transmission. Do not get me wrong I am very pro-vaccines, just concerned that we still need to be careful even if vaccinated as we do not yet have the evidence on the different vaccines ability to stop transmission, though the educated guesses seem to be that they are effective at that too.

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2 hours ago, Mark Morwood said:
On 4/28/2021 at 7:18 AM, Israel Hands said:

Not to nitpick, but I think that the efficacy IS based on preventing infection (95% efficacy). The serious disease (ie hospitalization) rate is near zero.

Thanks. You are right on the serious disease rate. I went back to re-read the study and I was not right to say serious disease, I should have said cases - which I think are just detected infections. There are ongoing studies working out how effective they are at stopping infection that does not get detected as a case - presumably very mild or asymptomatic infections which may or may not cause transmission. Do not get me wrong I am very pro-vaccines, just concerned that we still need to be careful even if vaccinated as we do not yet have the evidence on the different vaccines ability to stop transmission, though the educated guesses seem to be that they are effective at that too.

The vaccine enables your immune system to fight the infection better. Does not prevent infection.

Not a lot of definitive research on the risk of vaccinated persons catching & spreading infection (even though they will not suffer harm themselves). Apparently the current SARS-2/Covid vaccines -do- reduce the amount of virus carried and exhaled, which reduces transmission to other people... which makes sense but that's not always the way it works out. Most of what I've read on this topic, the scientists are very reluctant to give numbers, but some of them seem willing to say that vaccine reduces transmission to about 10%

Part of the difficulty in researching this, it's difficult to carry out reliable, repeatable, double-blind experiments on humans in the wild.

- DSK

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On 4/26/2021 at 10:10 AM, Ajax said:

 We don't really "go out" anymore.

Thanks boomer. We appreciate that. 

Signed,

the rest of us. 

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6 hours ago, Al Paca said:

Thanks boomer. We appreciate that. 

Signed,

the rest of us. 

I'm Gen-X. Assholes like you are why I sail alone. 

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