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Talk me out of buying this Santa Cruz 50


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This is my first post. Hi. Nice to meet you all. I need some help.

I totally should not buy this Santa Cruz 50. But somehow I want to. Please help to talk me out of it.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1982/santa-cruz-50-3743590/

What would I do with it if I had it? Well, I want to cruise from California to Baja to Marquesas/Tuamotus, Tahiti maybe double back to Easter Island and Pitcairn, then north to Hawaii and back to California. Pretty much all tradewind sailing, except for poking out into west winds as needed to go East. Probably mostly short handed. Probably sell it when I get back.

How much money do I have? At the moment I think I can afford to buy this boat and keep it somewhere in the San Francisco bay area. If it was much more expensive I probably wouldn't be able to afford it. I will have more money probably by fall when I sell some other "toys." So that is when I would haul it and do the blister repair, I guess.

Have I ever been out on a SC 50? Once for a daysail in Monterey Bay. I thought it sailed great. We didn't fly the spinnaker but the boat was fast and the helm was nice. It was a shitty day and half the people on the boat got seasick but I had a lot of fun.

How much sailing experience do I have? A few long ocean voyages (quite some time ago). Some coastal stuff. Day sailing. Very casual racing. But on and off. I am kind of "rusty" at the moment.

Why I shouldn't buy that boat: It has blisters, it is old, santa cruz 50 isn't really a cruising boat. Etc. You can elaborate along those lines.

What is the attraction for me? It is a lot of hull speed for the money. A lot of sail area for the displacement. Not a lot of displacement for the length. It should be a pretty fast cruising boat, and be able to sail in lighter winds than a lot of more traditional cruising boats. The Santa Cruz boats were well built. I live in Santa Cruz at the moment.

How much crap would I put on the boat? Probably a dinghy and 15 HP outboard and some solar panels and maybe some Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. An anchor and chain. Watermaker. Not planning to put a generator on there. I will probably carry extra fuel on long crossings.

What would I buy if I don't buy this? I don't know. I will probably wait a while until I have more money and then buy a Catalina 42. Or maybe some nice Perry design that is a little more "serious" about cruising than a Catalina 42.

--McKenzie

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Oh man, that is sweet. A guy would have to take a long hard look at her private parts to know what she tested positive for, obviously.

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Nice boat! Plan on spending another ~$70K getting her ready to do the cruising you mentioned. Does that help? 

Seriously though... It is a killer boat and you can probably get it for less than 70K. Odds are you will spend a fair amount of money fixing stuff and getting her ready to go. If you are near Redwood City I would recommend Westpoint Harbor Marina for a 50' slip. They have lots of openings right now and their prices are reasonable. 

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Perfect! Looks about ready to go. Interior a bit worn out. Great boat for shorthanded ocean cruising. My SC50 is being refitted in Monterey. Have been all over SE Asia, Mexico and back to here. Heading out again as soon as pandemic permits.

(Wonder where the chain, and drips, go from that windlass?)

Mine had blisters (300+ 1 inch size) when I bought her 11 years ago. Almost entirely on the glass that wraps/fairs the lead...below the stubby..purely cosmetic. All shallow. Just quickie filled them each haul until I got to civilization where a proper barrier coat was be done. None were serious. Probably never see them again.

No way would that cost $70 K to fit out for my style of cruising. You must keep her light. (Your 15hp dinghy idea hint that you don't understand...) Not going to do the surfing/scuba/paddleboard/frozen steaks/hot showers/microwave/etc. bullshit and carry all the accessories and spare parts. Get a pointy-at-both-ends battlecruiser if that is what you dream of. A Catalina 42 might get the job done. But are you really ready to give up experiencing life already?

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24 minutes ago, Borracho said:

Perfect! Looks about ready to go. Interior a bit worn out. Great boat for shorthanded ocean cruising. My SC50 is being refitted in Monterey. Have been all over SE Asia, Mexico and back to here. Heading out again as soon as pandemic permits.

(Wonder where the chain, and drips, go from that windlass?)

Mine had blisters (300+ 1 inch size) when I bought her 11 years ago. Almost entirely on the glass that wraps/fairs the lead...below the stubby..purely cosmetic. All shallow. Just quickie filled them each haul until I got to civilization where a proper barrier coat was be done. None were serious. Probably never see them again.

No way would that cost $70 K to fit out for my style of cruising. You must keep her light. (Your 15hp dinghy idea hint that you don't understand...) Not going to do the surfing/scuba/paddleboard/frozen steaks/hot showers/microwave/etc. bullshit and carry all the accessories and spare parts. Get a pointy-at-both-ends battlecruiser if that is what you dream of. A Catalina 42 might get the job done. But are you really ready to give up experiencing life already?

Encouraging about your experience with the blisters. I will see if I can get some pictures. Or just go see it.

What do you use for a dinghy? On my last voyage we had an inflatable with a 10 HP Honda. We used it to go spear fishing in Baja. It was nice to have a planing dinghy for those sorts of adventures.

Do you have a chain locker? It seems like it would be good to keep the anchor and chain out of the bow on passages. On any boat. But especially a ULDB. I am almost thinking it would be good to lead the chain back almost to the mast in a PVC pipe or something. Or maybe just relocate the chain and anchor on long passages.

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A friend of mine sailed his SC 50 all over the South Pacific for many years.  The boat stood up well. 

Balsa core everywhere, be very careful.  

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18 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

A friend of mine sailed his SC 50 all over the South Pacific for many years.  The boat stood up well. 

Balsa core everywhere, be very careful.  

If it squelches when you walk, watch out.

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2 hours ago, mckenzie.keith said:

Please help to talk me out of it.

 

 Recent haulout revealed moderate blistering on bottom

 

next >>>>>>>>>>>

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I just have a 2.5hp outboard and a typical small dinghy. But that is not the point. 15 is fine. But are you going to tire of storing it below? Or carry the never deflated dinghy on deck? The engine on the stern rail? Davits? Spearfishing at some distant rock? Guaranteed there is some nearby heavy cruiser with a huge RIB and engine that would love to take you along. That said, we went all over the place at slow speed. Didn't ever seem to make any significant difference in the fun. But we don't make a dozen daily trips ashore for Starbucks and internet. Depends what your intentions are.

You won't need much extra fuel except for the longest crossings in famously windless areas.

I am just now, like today, figuring out what to do about the anchoring kit. I've always moved the chain and anchor before long legs...and I only had 100 feet chain. Just motored it out onto the deck, tied it up, hoisted into a locker at the mast step. Easy. I think the windlass is going to be aft of the hatch, to the side. Chain will fall into a plastic tub...or something. The previous owners had the V-berth all fucked up with an added chain locker. That said, I have done plenty of cruising just tossing a Fortress over the side by hand with 30 feet of chain. Never an issue...where there is no coral. The other head-scratcher I have this week is cockpit shade underway. The dodger didn't really accomplish much considering its cost, weight, uselessness downwind and ugliness. Dumped it on a mid-Pacific island. 

Wet balsa core is a concern. I had some. The builders did an excellent job with it though. Boneheads moving deck hardware, not so much. The water didn't get far. Easy to fix. Rather have some wet core than a slow zero-fun chunderboat. Don't park on the rocks.

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4 hours ago, mckenzie.keith said:

I will probably carry extra fuel on long crossings.

you will , all delivery crews do , jerry cans lashed to the rail .

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52 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

And the reason is?

same question , appears to be a hatch above ?

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1 hour ago, Borracho said:

I just have a 2.5hp outboard and a typical small dinghy. But that is not the point. 15 is fine. But are you going to tire of storing it below? Or carry the never deflated dinghy on deck? The engine on the stern rail? Davits? Spearfishing at some distant rock? Guaranteed there is some nearby heavy cruiser with a huge RIB and engine that would love to take you along. That said, we went all over the place at slow speed. Didn't ever seem to make any significant difference in the fun. But we don't make a dozen daily trips ashore for Starbucks and internet. Depends what your intentions are.

You won't need much extra fuel except for the longest crossings in famously windless areas.

I am just now, like today, figuring out what to do about the anchoring kit. I've always moved the chain and anchor before long legs...and I only had 100 feet chain. Just motored it out onto the deck, tied it up, hoisted into a locker at the mast step. Easy. I think the windlass is going to be aft of the hatch, to the side. Chain will fall into a plastic tub...or something. The previous owners had the V-berth all fucked up with an added chain locker. That said, I have done plenty of cruising just tossing a Fortress over the side by hand with 30 feet of chain. Never an issue...where there is no coral. The other head-scratcher I have this week is cockpit shade underway. The dodger didn't really accomplish much considering its cost, weight, uselessness downwind and ugliness. Dumped it on a mid-Pacific island. 

Wet balsa core is a concern. I had some. The builders did an excellent job with it though. Boneheads moving deck hardware, not so much. The water didn't get far. Easy to fix. Rather have some wet core than a slow zero-fun chunderboat. Don't park on the rocks.

Yeah the sail area to displacement probably helps a lot with the light wind performance compared to a more typical cruiser.

Shade in the cockpit is very nice to have in the tropics. That heat can be relentless. Your ideas for the windlass and chain storage seem pretty good.

My plan is to work out a way to store the dinghy upside down on the foredeck on passages. Not sure about the motor, but not on the stern rail if I can help it. I mean, maybe for island hopping. But not for long passages.

There are probably more people out cruising nowadays than when I went (early mid 90's). Hitching a ride on other peoples' RIB's might be a good option. Also, I wonder if I am really as eager to spear fish as I used to be. I am a bit older now. Maybe a hull speed dinghy and a little outboard would be good enough.

As far as wet core, I am sure there will be some and I would never buy a boat without a complete survey. Unless there is a lot below the waterline I won't be too worried. It can be fixed.

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2 hours ago, Mid said:

 

 Recent haulout revealed moderate blistering on bottom

 

next >>>>>>>>>>>

Yeah. The boat was listed at 90k then went pending and then the price was lowered and it is not pending anymore. I suppose the previous sale fell through due to the blistering. Thank you for helping!

Edited by mckenzie.keith
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10 minutes ago, mckenzie.keith said:

Thank you for helping!

you are welcome :)

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Keep in mind too that these boats do not go upwind well in stock configuration.   If you are content with reaching and plan to avoid upwind work as much as possible, all good, otherwise the boat will require some kind of keel modification such as a bulb.

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2 minutes ago, Mid said:

see the problem here ?

I don't know about you but whenever I go cruising the damn wind always seems to be coming from where I want to go.  Sometimes you can just change where you want to go, or wait for another day, but sometimes you can't.

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Just now, Rain Man said:

the damn wind always seems to be coming from where I want to go.

makes nav real easy .......

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5 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Keep in mind too that these boats do not go upwind well in stock configuration.   If you are content with reaching and plan to avoid upwind work as much as possible, all good, otherwise the boat will require some kind of keel modification such as a bulb.

I suspect it will go upwind faster than most cruising boats. But yeah, I am going to do my best to avoid close-hauled passages (whatever boat I buy). Close hauled in the ocean is not fun. But thank you for trying to talk me out of it.

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Just now, mckenzie.keith said:

Close hauled in the ocean is not fun.

FTFY

windward = 747 :)

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30 minutes ago, mckenzie.keith said:

I suspect it will go upwind faster than most cruising boats. But yeah, I am going to do my best to avoid close-hauled passages (whatever boat I buy). Close hauled in the ocean is not fun. But thank you for trying to talk me out of it.

Yes, quite true.  Some don't go upwind at all.  My next-door neighbor in the marina was towed in by C-Tow the other day - he was a few miles south of the harbour and couldn't sail his boat upwind to get home.   

This is the boat - I kid you not (and yes, it had sails on it at the time):

 

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5 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

My next-door neighbor in the marina was towed in by C-Tow the other day - he was a few miles south of the harbour and couldn't sail his boat upwind to get home.   

I'll bite .... my tongue

suffice to say I suspect the c-tow membership made the decision immeasurably easier .

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50 foot, balsa core, old engine.......

what could go wrong?

Money Pit

 

 

 

but then all boats are.... even my series of 4ksbs

 

but a well found smaller boaat for $30K will leave you with some financial headroom

 

D

 

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1 hour ago, dylan winter said:

50 foot, balsa core, old engine.......

what could go wrong?

Money Pit

 

 

 

but then all boats are.... even my series of 4ksbs

 

but a well found smaller boaat for $30K will leave you with some financial headroom

 

D

 

Very well put! OP, you know you *will* regret that you bought this boat (or any other) at some point, that's for granted. Even now you need us to give your best judgement the upper hand. To concur with Dylan here, now that you know what you can afford, divide that by two and aim for the result as an absolute max.

...

Not that I applied this wisdom to myself, of course.

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As the OP can see, we're not very good at offering discouragement. We love spending other people's money. ;)

Blisters can be dealt with. You can do a complete hull and barrier coat job on it or you can play "Dr. Pimple Popper" and just fill and fair them as they arise. The real question is: Can you afford dockage and maintenance for it after you've purchased it?

If so, then why not?

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Just chucking it out there.  If all you want to do is sail around the Pacific for a while and then return to sell the boat, why not get something simpler/smaller - and done/more ready to go?  Probably cost less overall and be less work. 
 

In short, does it have to be that boat (as cool and fast/fun as an SC50 is).

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6 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Keep in mind too that these boats do not go upwind well in stock configuration.   If you are content with reaching and plan to avoid upwind work as much as possible, all good, otherwise the boat will require some kind of keel modification such as a bulb.

Wherever do you get that idea? Compared to which cruising boat? Wanna race? 

6 hours ago, mckenzie.keith said:

I guess you would have to ask Bill Lee. But the brochure mentions it as a second companionway giving access from the deck and ventilation for the galley.

Yup. Stairs lead up to the hatch. The stock hatch was a sliding affair. This one seems to have been converted to a (too sunny and hot) modern unit. The original hatch is genius.

Your idea of carrying the dink on the foredeck implies you are too lazy for Fast is Fun. Consider some heavy cruiser designed for freight work. They go the same speed in cruise mode as in race mode. Usually with the motor running. So no speed penalty. Bill Lee provided huge storage volume below for the dink, sails, outboards, etc.

That boat is a bargain. Any other cruisable 50 foot boats listed for $70K? My guess (from my experience) is the blisters are a non-issue.

It really boils down to a romantic decision. Or, what boat do you want to be seen arriving on? So if you need to ask...

 

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6 hours ago, dylan winter said:

50 foot, balsa core, old engine.......

what could go wrong?

Money Pit

but then all boats are.... even my series of 4ksbs

but a well found smaller boaat for $30K will leave you with some financial headroom

But will it ever go 20 knots?

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12 hours ago, mckenzie.keith said:

This is my first post. Hi. Nice to meet you all. I need some help.

I totally should not buy this Santa Cruz 50. But somehow I want to. Please help to talk me out of it.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1982/santa-cruz-50-3743590/

What would I do with it if I had it? Well, I want to cruise from California to Baja to Marquesas/Tuamotus, Tahiti maybe double back to Easter Island and Pitcairn, then north to Hawaii and back to California. Pretty much all tradewind sailing, except for poking out into west winds as needed to go East. Probably mostly short handed. Probably sell it when I get back.

How much money do I have? At the moment I think I can afford to buy this boat and keep it somewhere in the San Francisco bay area. If it was much more expensive I probably wouldn't be able to afford it. I will have more money probably by fall when I sell some other "toys." So that is when I would haul it and do the blister repair, I guess.

Have I ever been out on a SC 50? Once for a daysail in Monterey Bay. I thought it sailed great. We didn't fly the spinnaker but the boat was fast and the helm was nice. It was a shitty day and half the people on the boat got seasick but I had a lot of fun.

How much sailing experience do I have? A few long ocean voyages (quite some time ago). Some coastal stuff. Day sailing. Very casual racing. But on and off. I am kind of "rusty" at the moment.

Why I shouldn't buy that boat: It has blisters, it is old, santa cruz 50 isn't really a cruising boat. Etc. You can elaborate along those lines.

What is the attraction for me? It is a lot of hull speed for the money. A lot of sail area for the displacement. Not a lot of displacement for the length. It should be a pretty fast cruising boat, and be able to sail in lighter winds than a lot of more traditional cruising boats. The Santa Cruz boats were well built. I live in Santa Cruz at the moment.

How much crap would I put on the boat? Probably a dinghy and 15 HP outboard and some solar panels and maybe some Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. An anchor and chain. Watermaker. Not planning to put a generator on there. I will probably carry extra fuel on long crossings.

What would I buy if I don't buy this? I don't know. I will probably wait a while until I have more money and then buy a Catalina 42. Or maybe some nice Perry design that is a little more "serious" about cruising than a Catalina 42.

--McKenzie

Everything costs by the foot for boats. Make sure you fully realize that. Nothing wrong with Catalina 42s either, but I would say the SC50 will get you there first and perhaps keep you ahead of your creditors ;)

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4 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Everything costs by the foot for boats. Make sure you fully realize that. Nothing wrong with Catalina 42s either, but I would say the SC50 will get you there first and perhaps keep you ahead of your creditors ;)

I tend to think that cost is mostly per pound (as long as you don't get into proper racing machines with CF everywhere).

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4 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

I tend to think that cost is mostly per pound (as long as you don't get into proper racing machines with CF everywhere).

Slips, surveys, bottom paint, and so on are by the foot.

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1 minute ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Slips, surveys, bottom paint, and so on are by the foot.

True but rig, engine and sails are more per pound. Also bottom paint is not entirely per foot as a heavy boat will have more immersed area.

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49 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Slips, surveys, bottom paint, and so on are by the foot.

As are running rigging, standing rigging and sail inventory (if these are needing replacement) - all “by the foot”.

There is one SC50 I would buy if it ever came up for sale, as I know the owner, who’s had it since new and and has done extensive and very intelligent upgrades/rebuilds over the years.  I’d happily pay over $100k for it because it’s perfect.   (That boat’s #4 jib costs about much as my main, but it could also just be that they’re very good sails.)

One thing, though - the 2:1 purchase on the main halyard had me not liking all the crazy long line in the cockpit —the halyard was twice as long as normal? - but I guess that’s just big boat sailing?

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

As are running rigging, standing rigging and sail inventory (if these are needing replacement) - all “by the foot”.

There is one SC50 I would buy if it ever came up for sale, as I know the owner, who’s had it since new and and has done extensive and very intelligent upgrades/rebuilds over the years.  I’d happily pay over $100k for it because it’s perfect.   (That boat’s #4 jib costs about much as my main, but it could also just be that they’re very good sails.)

One thing, though - the 2:1 purchase on the main halyard had me not liking all the crazy long line in the cockpit —the halyard was twice as long as normal? - but I guess that’s just big boat sailing?

Lots of benefits to 2:1. Easier to raise, less mast compression. At the cost of the extra tail

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With Bitcoin, you can afford it.  If you don't buy this boat, you are a liberal pussy.

Seriously, start small, small mistakes are better than big ones.  This boat will cost someone a marriage and a house.

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Just think....this could be you. Oh wait, I'm supposed to talk you out of buying a Santa Cruz 50.

 

 

pm_2013_07_22_153.jpg

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Go for it, you can't take it with you and you can go upwind (or close to it) on the SC50, move the jib leads out and reduce sail.  I have boat envy.  My ideal boat would be a SC 52 but a bit out of my price range.  I realize a lot different than the 50, have sailed both.

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18 minutes ago, Kolibri said:

Just think....this could be you. Oh wait, I'm supposed to talk you out of buying a Santa Cruz 50.

 

 

pm_2013_07_22_153.jpg

Lot of mouths to feed and drinks to buy for the skipper of that boat

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22 minutes ago, Kolibri said:

Just think....this could be you. Oh wait, I'm supposed to talk you out of buying a Santa Cruz 50.

 

 

pm_2013_07_22_153.jpg

Man I miss Horizon, that was a fun race.  That's me standing in the middle of the cockpit, white hat, about to work the pedestal for grinding.  That boat was a 110/100.  The owner really loved her.

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2 minutes ago, saboteer said:

Man I miss Horizon, that was a fun race.  That's me standing in the middle of the cockpit, white hat, about to work the pedestal for grinding.  That boat was a 110/100.  The owner really loved her.

Very cool. I was on a power boat owned by a friend who knows the owner of Horizon well. Great day for shooting photos!

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1 hour ago, Kolibri said:

Very cool. I was on a power boat owned by a friend who knows the owner of Horizon well. Great day for shooting photos!

You must be talking about Tom.  Great guy, sailed many races on Horizon and other local boats with him.  It was a great day, pretty tame for the channel though.  I remember all the big talk of wind and waves on the way in and upon arrival it was light and calm.  Still it was great to see the island and get to those Mai Tai's.

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Just now, saboteer said:

You must be talking about Tom.  Great guy, sailed many races on Horizon and other local boats with him.  It was a great day, pretty tame for the channel though.  I remember all the big talk of wind and waves on the way in and upon arrival it was light and calm.  Still it was great to see the island and get to those Mai Tai's.

Yep...I'm talking about Tom. Great guy!

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how about this.

A guy who I have raced with for the last few years just called me this weekend to tell me how he was pissed because he just flew out to the West coast to see that boat with a boat builder friend who runs a reputable yard. Paid to have the boat hauled and took but a few minutes to determine it was not worth it.

Suffice to say he has substantially more budget than you. Now he wanted to make it race again, but the condition of the bottom was a deal breaker, so he flew home empty handed but for the receipt of having it hauled.

Take it for what you will, an experienced owner who knows how to acquire boats, fix them up, make them fast and sell them later, took a hard pass after a few minutes of seeing the bottom.

Face it, sometimes when you lift her skirt, you know its better to cut bait and run like hell.

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29 minutes ago, blunted said:

how about this.

A guy who I have raced with for the last few years just called me this weekend to tell me how he was pissed because he just flew out to the West coast to see that boat with a boat builder friend who runs a reputable yard. Paid to have the boat hauled and took but a few minutes to determine it was not worth it.

Suffice to say he has substantially more budget than you. Now he wanted to make it race again, but the condition of the bottom was a deal breaker, so he flew home empty handed but for the receipt of having it hauled.

Take it for what you will, an experienced owner who knows how to acquire boats, fix them up, make them fast and sell them later, took a hard pass after a few minutes of seeing the bottom.

Face it, sometimes when you lift her skirt, you know its better to cut bait and run like hell.

That's a crying shame.

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

That's a crying shame.

Well, but you know you’d lower your scruples and hit it if it was cheap enough. :-)

But, seriously, sounds like a bargaining chip, depending on the cost to have them repaired? 

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22 hours ago, mckenzie.keith said:

This is my first post. Hi. Nice to meet you all. I need some help.

I totally should not buy this Santa Cruz 50. But somehow I want to. Please help to talk me out of it.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1982/santa-cruz-50-3743590/

What would I do with it if I had it? Well, I want to cruise from California to Baja to Marquesas/Tuamotus, Tahiti maybe double back to Easter Island and Pitcairn, then north to Hawaii and back to California. Pretty much all tradewind sailing, except for poking out into west winds as needed to go East. Probably mostly short handed. Probably sell it when I get back.

How much money do I have? At the moment I think I can afford to buy this boat and keep it somewhere in the San Francisco bay area. If it was much more expensive I probably wouldn't be able to afford it. I will have more money probably by fall when I sell some other "toys." So that is when I would haul it and do the blister repair, I guess.

Have I ever been out on a SC 50? Once for a daysail in Monterey Bay. I thought it sailed great. We didn't fly the spinnaker but the boat was fast and the helm was nice. It was a shitty day and half the people on the boat got seasick but I had a lot of fun.

How much sailing experience do I have? A few long ocean voyages (quite some time ago). Some coastal stuff. Day sailing. Very casual racing. But on and off. I am kind of "rusty" at the moment.

Why I shouldn't buy that boat: It has blisters, it is old, santa cruz 50 isn't really a cruising boat. Etc. You can elaborate along those lines.

What is the attraction for me? It is a lot of hull speed for the money. A lot of sail area for the displacement. Not a lot of displacement for the length. It should be a pretty fast cruising boat, and be able to sail in lighter winds than a lot of more traditional cruising boats. The Santa Cruz boats were well built. I live in Santa Cruz at the moment.

How much crap would I put on the boat? Probably a dinghy and 15 HP outboard and some solar panels and maybe some Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. An anchor and chain. Watermaker. Not planning to put a generator on there. I will probably carry extra fuel on long crossings.

What would I buy if I don't buy this? I don't know. I will probably wait a while until I have more money and then buy a Catalina 42. Or maybe some nice Perry design that is a little more "serious" about cruising than a Catalina 42.

--McKenzie

Easy - are you hoping for female companionship on your cruise? This boat will guarantee you go stag....

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All of the above is telling me that the OP might end up with a boat that can grill steaks on the barbie, carry a SUP (or two), and have the RIB that takes other cruisers in the anchorage out to the reef to fish and snorkel :-) :-)

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5 hours ago, blunted said:

how about this.

A guy who I have raced with for the last few years just called me this weekend to tell me how he was pissed because he just flew out to the West coast to see that boat with a boat builder friend who runs a reputable yard. Paid to have the boat hauled and took but a few minutes to determine it was not worth it.

Suffice to say he has substantially more budget than you. Now he wanted to make it race again, but the condition of the bottom was a deal breaker, so he flew home empty handed but for the receipt of having it hauled.

Take it for what you will, an experienced owner who knows how to acquire boats, fix them up, make them fast and sell them later, took a hard pass after a few minutes of seeing the bottom.

Face it, sometimes when you lift her skirt, you know its better to cut bait and run like hell.

This is helping for sure. I did know that it was in contract then out again because of blisters. I have not seen pictures yet. They have pictures, though. I think it was listed at 94k, and now it is listed at 70k. So there is some discount there. But I am listening to you. This is weighing on my mind.

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2 hours ago, DRP said:

Do a little research on the broker... oh, here let me help you:

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-10-18-fi-3441-story.html

I was loyal customer.  Purchased 3 boats over the years from him and ended up with a bunch of grief on the last one.

Run and don't look back.

 

Holy shit. On the other hand, that was 31 years ago. But yeah, this is not a plus for the boat.

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1 hour ago, CapDave said:

Easy - are you hoping for female companionship on your cruise? This boat will guarantee you go stag....

I am married with one kid. But I am pretty sure my non-sailing wife won't like that boat. I haven't mentioned it to her yet. I hear what you are saying loud and clear...

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3 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Well, but you know you’d lower your scruples and hit it if it was cheap enough. :-)

But, seriously, sounds like a bargaining chip, depending on the cost to have them repaired? 

They dropped the price from 94k I think to 70k after it fell through. They may bargain more, of course. But you know how owners are. They always think their boat is worth way more than it really is.

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10 hours ago, maxstaylock said:

With Bitcoin, you can afford it.  If you don't buy this boat, you are a liberal pussy.

Seriously, start small, small mistakes are better than big ones.  This boat will cost someone a marriage and a house.

I had a freya 39 some odd years ago. This won't be my first boat. I have a job right now so I can pay dock fees. I don't have free cash right at this moment because we just bought an airstream trailer. But we will probably sell it after the summer is over. Then I can start getting ready to head out. Shooting for Haloween 2022 departure.

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

All of the above is telling me that the OP might end up with a boat that can grill steaks on the barbie, carry a SUP (or two), and have the RIB that takes other cruisers in the anchorage out to the reef to fish and snorkel :-) :-)

This COULD happen. I won't deny it! But I am trying to get inspired by Borracho... Definitely no SUP's, though.

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32 minutes ago, mckenzie.keith said:

This COULD happen. I won't deny it! But I am trying to get inspired by Borracho... Definitely no SUP's, though.

I’ve sailed one as crew from Hawaii.  They’re super fun to sail, no doubt about that.  The particular one I sailed on was extremely well set up, and the decks from bow to stern were CLEAN, nothing anywhere, no arches, solar panels, etc etc etc., yet it had cruised extensively.  Something to shoot for...

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13 hours ago, Borracho said:

Wherever do you get that idea? Compared to which cruising boat? Wanna race? 

 

 

I'm grasping at straws.  He wants us to talk him out of it, remember? :D

The owner of the 50 I'm most familiar with did put a bulb on the keel for that reason though.  I personally think SC 50's are fantastic boats, but don't tell the OP...  I'm part owner of an SC 27, which is kind of like owning a 50 in a vicarious way.

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11 hours ago, mckenzie.keith said:

I am married with one kid. But I am pretty sure my non-sailing wife won't like that boat. I haven't mentioned it to her yet. I hear what you are saying loud and clear...

You wanted to be talked out of it. I think you should re-read your own post.  A 35-foot fixer-upper would scare the shit out of a sane man with a wife, kid and a full-time job who understood what he was in for. A 50-footer...and her not liking sailing to begin with?  Unless of course you have a secret bank account so that you can pay others to do all the work...

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You're probably looking at new standing/running rigging, new sails, new engine plus cosmetics if so inclined.  Could be quite pricy.

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12 hours ago, mckenzie.keith said:

I am married with one kid. But I am pretty sure my non-sailing wife won't like that boat. I haven't mentioned it to her yet. I hear what you are saying loud and clear...

lol

honest question - you looking for a divorce?

you are REALLY going about this all wrong.

You see if you can sell the wife on sailing to the blue before you buy the boat, NOT after . . . and after you sell her on the idea you let her pick out the boat (or at least let her think she is the one picking). 

And the boat you are looking at here is going to be a great find for someone, but (almost) ALL used boats take a boatload of cash and the one you are looking at is going to take more than usual.  Go price a mainsail for it.

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1 minute ago, estarzinger said:

lol

honest question - you looking for a divorce?

Ummm... No more than 30 (real and floating) SC50's in the world. There are millions of women aggressively seeking their owners. Which is harder to replace? Do the math.

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11 minutes ago, Borracho said:

Ummm... No more than 30 (real and floating) SC50's in the world. There are millions of women aggressively seeking their owners. Which is harder to replace? Do the math.

So says La Borrachita's Husband. Do as he does, not as he says... :)

Seriously, you make an unexpected money-pit investment AND start spending vast amounts of time away from your wife and kid? Or maybe that's subconsciously where you are already. Time to objectively think that one through.

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9 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

So says La Borrachita's Husband. Do as he does, not as he says... :)

Seriously, you make an unexpected money-pit investment AND start spending vast amounts of time away from your wife and kid? Or maybe that's subconsciously where you are already. Time to objectively think that one through.

You are correct. It is sadly too common for sailors to choose the wrong spouse.

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37 minutes ago, Bryanjb said:

You're probably looking at new standing/running rigging, new sails, new engine plus cosmetics if so inclined.  Could be quite pricy.

I thought this would be a good thought exercise

Sail prices from the guys at FX Sails Online.

image.png.d20607f67ebf7b511bdf9ddda52ab971.png

 

Engine, let's say it needs a major but is fundamentally ok:  Say $2500

 

Bottom job - when we did it for the SC 50 and had the fairing flaking off, it was $28,000.  Given the price drop, that seems ballpark

 

Standing rigging. Ouch, I bet that'll run you $15,000

Running rigging - go Samson MLX hybrid stuff, another $5k

Little things like mast lights, etc, could run you another couple grand

So:
sails at $13k for the basic basics, but probably enough to get you cruising

$28k bottom

$15k standing rigging

$7.5k for sundry other stuff

 

Rounding, about $65k assuming all the systems work. And as Borracho says, if they don't work, toss them out. You need a place to store food, cook food, anchor, navigate, etc.

Get the boat down to $50k, and for $125k total you might have a lightweight cruiser in which to find wife #2.

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10 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

 

Sail prices from the guys at FX Sails Online.

 

just fyi - those sail prices have zero options - like for instance zero reefs in the mainsail. I can't see what they intend for sail slugs/cars.

If you have been around refits, you know you need to take any exercise like this and add at least 50%, and usually more like double to get the final actual number.

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13 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I thought this would be a good thought exercise

Sail prices from the guys at FX Sails Online.

image.png.d20607f67ebf7b511bdf9ddda52ab971.png

 

Engine, let's say it needs a major but is fundamentally ok:  Say $2500

 

Bottom job - when we did it for the SC 50 and had the fairing flaking off, it was $28,000.  Given the price drop, that seems ballpark

 

Standing rigging. Ouch, I bet that'll run you $15,000

Running rigging - go Samson MLX hybrid stuff, another $5k

Little things like mast lights, etc, could run you another couple grand

So:
sails at $13k for the basic basics, but probably enough to get you cruising

$28k bottom

$15k standing rigging

$7.5k for sundry other stuff

 

Rounding, about $65k assuming all the systems work. And as Borracho says, if they don't work, toss them out. You need a place to store food, cook food, anchor, navigate, etc.

Get the boat down to $50k, and for $125k total you might have a lightweight cruiser in which to find wife #2.

Thanks for this. This is super helpful. Especially the sail prices. My assumption going in was that I would dump another 70k into it before leaving. I would like to avoid divorce if possible though. So I am hearing you on that. As long as I can defer the second 70k for six months I am OK with that.

If it really needs all new sails and a new motor and new standing rigging and new running rigging, I will either have to get the price down even more or just bail. I know a lot of boats with extensive deferred maintenance can actually have negative value. Until some sucker buys it for 20,000 thinking they are getting a good deal. But I am not sure if this is that or not. Haven't even looked at it yet (it is a day's drive away from where I live).

Once again, thank you for challenging me this way. It is what I need.

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28 minutes ago, Borracho said:

You are correct. It is sadly too common for sailors to choose the wrong spouse.

Well, my wife and I have looked at a lot of boats together. But then we put it all on hold and bought an airstream trailer instead. When we sell the airstream we are buying a boat for sure (and with a higher budget). But this boat just popped up and caught my eye and made me start scheming how to get the boat BEFORE selling the airstream. There is no way I buy the boat without telling her. I will eventually show her this whole thread. I don't want any I told you so's later. We have been married since 2000.

This is a great no bullshit sailing forum. LOL. You guys don't hold back. Just tell it like it is.

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4 minutes ago, mckenzie.keith said:

Well, my wife and I have looked at a lot of boats together. But then we put it all on hold and bought an airstream trailer instead. When we sell the airstream we are buying a boat for sure (and with a higher budget). But this boat just popped up and caught my eye and made me start scheming how to get the boat BEFORE selling the airstream. There is no way I buy the boat without telling her. I will eventually show her this whole thread. I don't want any I told you so's later. We have been married since 2000.

This is a great no bullshit sailing forum. LOL. You guys don't hold back. Just tell it like it is.

That reminds me...you haven't posted any tits yet.

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3 minutes ago, mckenzie.keith said:

Well, my wife and I have looked at a lot of boats together. But then we put it all on hold and bought an airstream trailer instead. When we sell the airstream we are buying a boat for sure (and with a higher budget). But this boat just popped up and caught my eye and made me start scheming how to get the boat BEFORE selling the airstream. There is no way I buy the boat without telling her. I will eventually show her this whole thread. I don't want any I told you so's later. We have been married since 2000.

This is a great no bullshit sailing forum. LOL. You guys don't hold back. Just tell it like it is.

you can probably find a lovely boat that is someone's field-of-dream rebuild for $125k.

This boat is a totally different sort of beast. My personality failures would point me to this one as well, but I just did my field-of-dream rebuild on an Andrews 43 and am quite happy. I spent more than $70k but I had a full power-train replacement. All except the propellor which I had rebuilt. That was close to $35k

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Another thing to consider is - who is doing all the work?  My friend who owns a 50 is lucky enough that he is independently wealthy, but nevertheless maintaining his boat is more or less a full-time job.  He knows his boat inside and out, has rebuilt it several times (it now has ring frames instead of bulkheads, for example), and is very good at lamination, including carbon.  He can maintain and rebuild every single part of the boat including the engine, though he usually gets help with that from a mechanic friend.  

In your case, if you don't have this level of skill, you will either be paying someone else to do all the work (eg. 28K to fix the blister field on the bottom) or you are spending every spare moment both learning how to do the work and then actually doing it.  When you don't know what you are doing, it takes a lot longer.  Hence the divorce, because you have a child and you can't spend that much time away.  

What about kid #2?  My wife would have divorced me if I didn't agree to #2, and it is likely that you're in the same position.  Now, with two kids, do you think you'll have any time to work on a boat?  Not if you are a decent father.  My racing boat was badly neglected while my kids were growing up.  Kids have to be your priority, period. 

Wait, did you say your wife doesn't sail?  This sounds like a very risky proposition.

So, while SC 50's are great boats, buying this one intending to take it offshore turns it into a big project.  Taking a family offshore requires a boat that is reasonably dialled in. Either you need very deep pockets to pay others to do the work, or you need the world's most understanding and flexible wife.  

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On 5/3/2021 at 9:13 PM, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

I’ve sailed one as crew from Hawaii.  They’re super fun to sail, no doubt about that.  The particular one I sailed on was extremely well set up, and the decks from bow to stern were CLEAN, nothing anywhere, no arches, solar panels, etc etc etc., yet it had cruised extensively.  Something to shoot for...

Hmmm.  Did that boat have radar on a pole at the transom by chance?

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Friend of mine bought an older ex-racing boat, a Radford 50 IIRC. It was on the cheap side.

2 years later and it's still being worked on - I reckon he's at least another 12 months from going sailing. Aluminium corrodes so nicely you see.

And there's all the stuff that needs updating.

And he's single so no problems with his spouse WRT time/money spent.

So, $70K for a boat with known issues. I'd be very careful about finding out what currently *unknown* issues there were. I know nothing about those boats but man, I've seen people buy things they've regretted. I call it 'bigger boat disease'.

FKT