Jump to content

Hillary Clinton "There has to be a global reckoning with disinformation"


Recommended Posts

 

The former secretary of state warns of the danger to democracy of lies flourishing online – and says big tech’s wings must be clipped

 
 
Thu 6 May 2021 02.00 EDT

 

Her bid for the White House was engulfed by a tidal wave of fabricated news and false conspiracy theories. Now Hillary Clinton is calling for a “global reckoning” with disinformation that includes reining in the power of big tech.

The former secretary of state and first lady warns that the breakdown of a shared truth, and the divisiveness that surely follows, poses a danger to democracy at a moment when China is selling the conceit that autocracy works.

 

Clinton speaks to the Guardian via Zoom from her home in Chappaqua, New York, in an interview to mark the newspaper’s bicentenary this month. “I think the Guardian has been a great exemplar of press freedom for 200 years,” she says.

The 73-year-old wife of former US president Bill Clinton has more reason than most to be a student of media trends, from historic newspapers to the latest digital platforms.

In the 2016 election, Clinton was the first woman to be nominated by a major political party. The mainstream media was later criticized for creating a false equivalence between her career missteps and those of rival Donald Trump, who had suspicious contacts with Russia and faced multiple allegations of sexual assault.

In addition, Moscow helped fuel a social media disinformation campaign that targeted likely Democratic voters and was most infamously expressed in the “Pizzagate” conspiracy theory, which made the preposterous claim that Clinton ran a child sex trafficking ring at a Washington pizza restaurant.

Five years on, Trump has come and gone from the White House and America now has a female vice-president in Kamala Harris. But the dangerous lies have continued to thrive online, notably in the QAnon conspiracy movement, leading all the way to the deadly insurrection at the US Capitol on 6 January. Far-right Republicans have become openly anti-democratic, endorsing Trump’s falsehoods and seeking to suppress voters of color.

The traditional the-truth-is-somewhere-in-the-middle approach will no longer do, Clinton argues.

“They’ve got to rid themselves of both-sidesism,” she says. “It is not the same to say something critical of somebody on the other side of the aisle and to instigate an attack on the Capitol and to vote against certifying the election. Those are not comparable, and it goes back to the problem of the press actually coming to grips with how out of bounds and dangerous the new political philosophy on the right happens to be.”

The press cannot be expected to restore a common baseline of truth on its own, however.

“The technology platforms are so much more powerful than any organ of the so-called mainstream press, and I do think that there has to be not just an American reckoning but a global reckoning with the disinformation, with the monopolistic power and control, with the lack of accountability that the platforms currently enjoy,” Clinton said.

She added: “In particular Facebook, which has the worst track record for enabling mistruths, misinformation, extremism, conspiracy, for goodness’ sake, even genocide in Myanmar against the Rohingya. So governments are going to have to decide right now that the platforms have to be held to some kind of standard, and it’s tricky.”

A report commissioned by Facebook found in 2018 that the company failed to stop its platform being used to “foment division and incite offline violence” in Myanmar. And a recent Guardian investigation found that the company was painfully slow to heed warnings about political leaders who used it to deceive the public or harass opponents. Facebook has almost 2.8bn global monthly active users and its revenue in the fourth quarter of last year was $28bn.

There are signs that Joe Biden, the US Congress and the Federal Trade Commission intend to take a tougher line on big tech, but Clinton acknowledged: “It’s not easily done. They’re incredibly powerful. But I don’t see any alternative if we’re going to try to deal with the very real dangers that disinformation and the divisiveness it breeds pose to our democracies.”

Trump took swipes at internet companies, but concentrated most of his fire on CNN, the New York Times and other mainstream media. He notoriously gorged on press attention while also demonizing them as “the enemy of the people”. Clinton, who as secretary of state travelled the world promoting freedom of the press, was appalled.

“Once an American president said that the press was the enemy of the people, that gave permission to all kinds of autocrats to make the same claim,” she said. “I don’t know any American president who’s ever thought he got fair press; they always believe that they are not understood, or they’re being held to impossible standards or whatever their complaints might be.

“But we never had a president who essentially aligned himself with authoritarian thinking and acting the way we did with our former president.

“It did do damage inside our own country, because it fed paranoia, conspiracy theories, partisan differences in our own political system that led many people to claim that the press was the enemy of the people, or at least the enemy of what they believed in.”

Trump found willing accomplices for his narrative in the media itself, notably Rupert Murdoch’s Fox News. Clinton observed: “The fact is that certain media really became mouthpieces for Trump’s view of reality and fed the kind of disbelief and very negative view about anything that ‘the mainstream press’ had to say.

“On the other hand, the mainstream press had a very hard time coming to grips with the mendacity and the danger posed by Trump and his enablers and followers.

“It was very difficult. I understand the challenge that they faced. I think they were too slow in coming around to understanding that this was not an ordinary difference of opinion, this was not a different kind of leader in degree. This was a wholesale jettisoning of what we had come to understand as being appropriate boundaries for our leaders to operate within.”

The threat to democracy from these alternative realities is under particular scrutiny as China, a fast-rising power, promotes an alternative model to the world. Biden has suggested more than once that future generations will analyze this era and judge whether autocracy or democracy was more successful. Clinton agrees that the president has identified the defining issue of our time.

Democracies must demonstrate they produce results for citizens and stay united, she said. “There’s no doubt that the Chinese are basically making the opposite case that democracy is messy, things take too long, people are in and out of office, there’s no continuity, you can’t have the kind of fixed goals that can be moved forward in a socially cohesive way and therefore choose us. We are facing that struggle.”

Clinton’s commitment to democracy includes the “foundational” relationship between the US and UK. She expressed opposition to Brexit, which was passed by referendum less than five months before her election defeat, and still worries about its consequences.

“I’m concerned about decision making on behalf of the west because, as complicated as these relationships are and as sometimes distressing the bureaucracy can be, it’s really important, especially talking about democracy versus autocracy, that democracies stick together. So the separation of the UK from Europe, I hope, doesn’t lead to a weakening of the commitment to democracy and the strength of standing up against both internal and external threats,” she said.

Clinton is also alarmed by the uncertainty created by Brexit for the borderbetween Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland – an issue in which she has a personal investment.

“I’ve been disturbed at the recent violence and, as someone who was very committed to assisting my husband and George Mitchell and working with the British government and the Irish government for the Good Friday peace agreement, I would hate to see Brexit undermine that: it would be a tragedy of historic proportions,” she said.

It would be hard to work out what a UK-US bilateral trade agreement might look like until the border issue is resolved, she added, because one of the benefits that followed the Good Friday agreement was the promotion of direct investment from the US into Northern Ireland.

Clinton’s memories of Britain include seeing the musical Evita in London’s West End and staying overnight at Buckingham Palace when accompanying the Obamas. Speaking of the royal family, she extended condolences to the Queen for the death of Prince Philip but, in the wake of the Oprah Winfrey interview, declined to take sides on Megxit.

“I wish them all well. I know them and I can understand the challenges that any family faces in today’s world, and obviously I wish them the very best,” she said.

She was not America’s top diplomat for nothing.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/06/hillary-clinton-guardian-disinformation-big-tech-facebook

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this basically correct but is phrased all wrong.

Disinformation is deliberate lying. "Freedom of speech" was never intended to include this.

When a deliberate lie harms somebody, we have a legal remedy... sue the liar. Difficult to do when the harm is not directly monetary. For example, the company that produced the voting systems used in the USA's 2020 election have sued the Big Liars claiming it was a crooked election. But there is no way for the voters who will suffer harm to recover the voting rights lost in those states that reacted on the basis of Trump's Big Lie.

We have a case of an enemy using our own system to try and destroy us. They're the enemy, we know who they are. Use the other parts of the system to stomp them, and make it clear that this will not succeed. We've done it before.

- DSK

 

  • Like 10
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I think this basically correct but is phrased all wrong.

Disinformation is deliberate lying. "Freedom of speech" was never intended to include this.

When a deliberate lie harms somebody, we have a legal remedy... sue the liar. Difficult to do when the harm is not directly monetary. For example, the company that produced the voting systems used in the USA's 2020 election have sued the Big Liars claiming it was a crooked election. But there is no way for the voters who will suffer harm to recover the voting rights lost in those states that reacted on the basis of Trump's Big Lie.

We have a case of an enemy using our own system to try and destroy us. They're the enemy, we know who they are. Use the other parts of the system to stomp them, and make it clear that this will not succeed. We've done it before.

- DSK

 

Could someone please file a lawsuit against Trump for the "Big Lie"? Today would be a good time to start.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Could someone please file a lawsuit against Trump for the "Big Lie"? Today would be a good time to start.

Paging Sol...

This is America, I've been told over and over that you can sue anybody for anything. If you can bring evidence of monetary damages to a case against Trump, you could probably go pretty far. He's lost all those cases where he ripped off customers and subcontractors and stiffed employees.

- DSK

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Steam Flyer said:

Paging Sol...

This is America, I've been told over and over that you can sue anybody for anything. If you can bring evidence of monetary damages to a case against Trump, you could probably go pretty far. He's lost all those cases where he ripped off customers and subcontractors and stiffed employees.

- DSK

Going after the leader of this disinformation campaign would sure throw a bucket of ice water on the rest who follow.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, badlatitude said:

Going after the leader of this disinformation campaign would sure throw a bucket of ice water on the rest who follow.

Well, I'd actually like to throw Mike Pence and Kevin McCarthy to the mob, and see how many of the Trumpalo congresscritters want to still run with the insurrectionist herd

But I'd settle for some huge lawsuits stomping their wallets down into a deep dark hole from which they will emerge working as Wal-Mart stockers for the rest of their lives

- DSK

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, I'd actually like to throw Mike Pence and Kevin McCarthy to the mob, and see how many of the Trumpalo congresscritters want to still run with the insurrectionist herd

But I'd settle for some huge lawsuits stomping their wallets down into a deep dark hole from which they will emerge working as Wal-Mart stockers for the rest of their lives

- DSK

Breaking up the campaign that supports the "big lie" should be our biggest priority, the window is closing rapidly.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

But I'd settle for some huge lawsuits stomping their wallets down into a deep dark hole from which they will emerge working as Wal-Mart stockers for the rest of their lives

- DSK

That’s where the bullshit stops...in court. People need to keep dragging bullshitters into court when they spread actionable bullshit. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

HRC isn't wrong.  Social media has fueled dis- and misinformation and that box is opened.  We are at the mercy of who ever lies the loudest.  The scariest part of Trump isn't the person himself, it's the gate he opened for someone who might actually be smart to do the same.  I fear we ain't seen nuthin' yet.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hillary is impressive, in how she presents this. I fear the consequences of disinformation, in general. Without dis-allowing the first amendment, I feel that some form of accountability is imperative. 

Yeah,  at one point, I reacted to years of disinformation on PA. This disinformation had presented MLK, constantly and frequently, as living in a house full of guns.  WTF?@Excoded Tom)

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

the interweb will be the downfall of humanity. if we, don't rise up as humans, the machines will take over. I'm not kidding, I've worked in Automation for 20 years.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Internet is another of God's cosmic jokes.

Remember when it was going to bring us to a new age of enlightenment?

Instead it has brought us to a new age of stupid ignorance.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Voyageur said:

I quit because one machine that I designed and built replaced 20 people. where does that money go?

Into the pockets of the 1%.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Now might be a good time to actually formally charge the former guy and his sycophants with sedition and incitement, of course there are several more federal cases that must be close to processing charges also, by charging those with aiding and abetting this attack upon the very tenets of democracy you send a clear message that the mark has been overstepped.

A clear and legal pushback to what really boils down to a power grab by supporters of a delusional autocrat, needs stomped on, hard.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

We had local gossip, stupid faxes, then chain emails "forward to everyone you know because the MSM will never report this" and now we have AM radio and talking heads and social media dumbing down the electorate to a point that conversations are limited to your tribe.

I don't always agree with HRC but do on this, nobody has suffered more than her with Obama in 2nd place.  Time for Truth AND Consequences.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Now, now, it isn't lies, bullshit or disinformation, it's "people who speak differently.":ph34r:

If the former guy got away with lying daily for 4 years, what makes anyone think there is a way back to the truth?

Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Breaking up the campaign that supports the "big lie" should be our biggest priority, the window is closing rapidly.

Well, Liz Cheney is propping the window open, for now, bless her heart.

May History smile upon her elk, if any.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Rain Man said:

Now, now, it isn't lies, bullshit or disinformation, it's "people who speak differently.":ph34r:

Don't forget "independent thinkers" especially the ones who parrot Rush Hannity and/or their fundie preacher.

But I am saying that it's a mistake to not push back HARD on the concept that it's "arbitrating truth" when what is happening is that there is a party seeking to legitimize lying. Truth is a thing. Deliberate lying is not a right. They're trying to partisanize reality itself... this is a recipe for big, hard, failure.... bridge collapsing, economy collapsing, nation collapsing, failure. If we don't want to get dragged down with the Big Liars, we need to shove this demon back into it's box.

- DSK

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

If my 'feelings' count, then it's true what I feel. "If it feels good, do it" (TM). 

So say the ignorant, who have only their feelings and impressions to rule their lives.

Blame the 2nd Romantic movement--the 60's.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, jocal505 said:

Well, Liz Cheney is propping the window open, for now, bless her heart.

May History smile upon her elk, if any.

Its almost tragic that one woman has more balls than an entire republican party.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Navig8tor said:

Its almost tragic that one woman has more balls than an entire republican party.

If she is thrown under the bus by the R's, the party is lost.  The radical right is trying to construct a new, false reality, and if they succeed in getting voter support for that false reality, the US is in big trouble IMHO.  

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

“They keep you doped with religion, and sex, and T.V.


And you think you're so clever and classless and free


But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see”

 John Lennon

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Well, Liz Cheney is propping the window open, for now, bless her heart.

May History smile upon her elk, if any.

Liz Cheney will move to the back of the bus once she is removed from leadership. That's why we need to act now.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Rain Man said:

If she is thrown under the bus by the R's, the party is lost.

Nah, they'll just form another, and another, and another. How many 'conservative' parties have we seen here in Canada?

(Reform party, Sask Party, UCP,  . . .)

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Now, now, it isn't lies, bullshit or disinformation, it's "people who speak differently.":ph34r:

If the former guy got away with lying daily for 4 years, what makes anyone think there is a way back to the truth?

Today the NYTimes finally used the word "Lie" regarding trump.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, stief said:

Nah, they'll just form another, and another, and another. How many 'conservative' parties have we seen here in Canada?

(Reform party, Sask Party, UCP,  . . .)

The UCP has managed to drag Alberta back into the Dark Ages. In two years they have fucked up the education system and the medical system. It's amazing how the politics of stupidity can work so fast.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Liz Cheney ain't no angel, but she seems to be trying to shed some of her snake skin....

Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

The UCP has managed to drag Alberta back into the Dark Ages. In two years they have fucked up the education system and the medical system. It's amazing how the politics of stupidity can work so fast.

O'Toole is in an interesting position.  The Conservatives are set in their base followers.  They are not enough to get elected.  New voters are not looking at all to the Conservatives.  They have really blown it in Quebec.  O'Toole is looking to bring some of the voters outside the base followers and the party is pushing back on a bunch of attempts to widen the tent.  It will be interesting to either see a real decline in Conservative popularity as their voters die off (large percentage of Conservative voters are OLD) or another phoenix rising party of the Right.   I don't see it staying the way it is.  Kenney was supposed to lead Alberta to a new an glorious era and then transition back to the federal level.  Not working out that way.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, important to distinguish between misinformation and disinformation. 

I am not a fan of HRC, but did vote for her. 

A major DisInfo campaign against her was the email Nothing Burger. 

Trump hammered on it daily, and the MSM bought into it, including the NYT. 

Turned out there was nothing there . . https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/06/fbi-director-hillary-clinton-email-investigation-criminal-james-comey

Don't know if the Times ever apologized for that - pretty sure not. 

Good article here challenging the NYT on that issue 

https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2017/09/why-the-new-york-times-should-grapple-with-its-coverage-of-hillarys-emails/541179/

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rain Man said:

Now, now, it isn't lies, bullshit or disinformation, it's "people who speak differently.":ph34r:

If the former guy got away with lying daily for 4 years, what makes anyone think there is a way back to the truth?

That’s what I was saying about New York’s Greatest Bullshitter. That’s just the way the fellas talk in his neighborhood. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just had.. AN EPIPHANY... blatant distortion, lies and bullshit must be reckoned with!! it never occurred to me!!!

why hasn't she made this fundamental proclamation years before, and why the frog in warm water act?

Link to post
Share on other sites

From the sacking of Mexico

to the sacking of the Philippines 

from the ethnic cleansing of the “savages” aka the native Americans 

to the we are not an empire whilst having colonies all around the world 

From the bay of bigs and the gulf of Tonkin 

To war movies portraying us as the victims

From the ousting of the democratically elected government of Iran 

To the assassination of Allende 

from the dismemberment of unborn children 

to the “right to choose”

from the two sexes 

to infinity and beyond 


 

Yup!
Obviously all was just dandy until that oaf with the ridiculous combover arrived on the scene.

 


 

You ejits are more entertaining than Comedy Central 

 

lol

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

Obviously all was just dandy until that oaf with the ridiculous combover arrived on the scene.

Not one person here has claimed that.  In fact, it has been repeatedly stated that the former guy is the symptom, not the disease.  Your points would be better taken if they weren't so obviously filled with bullshit.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sea warrior said:

From the sacking of Mexico

to the sacking of the Philippines 

from the ethnic cleansing of the “savages” aka the native Americans 

to the we are not an empire whilst having colonies all around the world 

From the bay of bigs and the gulf of Tonkin 

To war movies portraying us as the victims

From the ousting of the democratically elected government of Iran 

To the assassination of Allende 

from the dismemberment of unborn children 

to the “right to choose”

from the two sexes 

to infinity and beyond 


 

Yup!
Obviously all was just dandy until that oaf with the ridiculous combover arrived on the scene.

 


 

You ejits are more entertaining than Comedy Central 

 

lol

here's another disingenuous right-leaning fuckwit flailing and trying to suggest, and deflect from, the all too relevant reality that the 'merican right isn't by a vast margin, the 'greater of two evils'. that's where you're just sucking your own dick over and over basically because you're cognitively disadvantaged, it'd be fine if you stopped leaving that fuckery in text here like piles of dog shit on the floor.

who's the stupid fuck now...

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, stief said:

If my 'feelings' count, then it's true what I feel. "If it feels good, do it" (TM). 

So say the ignorant, who have only their feelings and impressions to rule their lives.

Blame the 2nd Romantic movement--the 60's.

You're comparing the hippies to the Magrats?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Voyageur said:

ok, listen to this,, if you have time? we had good leaders, once upon a time.

 

Kennedy was a true leader.

He inspired the entire world.

Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

here's another disingenuous right-leaning fuckwit flailing and trying to suggest, and deflect from, the all too relevant reality that the 'merican right isn't by a vast margin, the 'greater of two evils'. that's where you're just sucking your own dick over and over basically because you're cognitively disadvantaged, it'd be fine if you stopped leaving that fuckery in text here like piles of dog shit on the floor.

who's the stupid fuck now...

You forgot to end with an "lol".

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

You're comparing the hippies to the Magrats?

Ironic, isn't it, how a movement can learn from 'know thy enemy.' (cf Sarah Palin application of feminism, Koch funding of philanthropic foundations, 45 learning from Putin, etc). 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

Liz Cheney ain't no angel, but she seems to be trying to shed some of her snake skin....

I wonder if she knows that some news is about to drop that will position her at the top of her party.

She certainly has connections.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Mike G said:

I wonder if she knows that some news is about to drop that will position her at the top of her party.

She certainly has connections.

She now seems to be fairly willing to step back and let the loonies run with it. Let's hope there's a big shithammer hiding around the corner.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

You forgot to end with an "lol".

sure, if a plague of right-wing bullshit and blatant lies is funny. maybe I'll laugh when he admits he's only here to 'own the libs' but can't, because he doesn't have much more than fk all than his angry leprechaun act to do it with. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

sure, if a plague of right-wing bullshit and blatant lies is funny. maybe I'll laugh when he admits he's only here to 'own the libs' but can't, because he doesn't have much more than fk all than his angry leprechaun act to do it with. 

"Angry Leprechaun" would be a great band name... maybe a concept album titled "Bad Luck"

- DSK

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

"Angry Leprechaun" would be a great band name... maybe a concept album titled "Bad Luck"

- DSK

cartoon-leprechaun-skull-with-whiskers-a

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

cartoon-leprechaun-skull-with-whiskers-a

Thanks, but....

I appreciate that you're just trying to help but ^ this ^ looks more like Jealous Cadaver Leprechaun

- DSK

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Rain Man said:

If she is thrown under the bus by the R's, the party is lost.  The radical right is trying to construct a new, false reality, and if they succeed in getting voter support for that false reality, the US is in big trouble IMHO.  

Remember that history (i.e. reality) is written by the winners.  They are planning to be the winners.  They very well may be.  

And yes, the US is in big trouble. 

What is most disturbing is that the chief fomenters of the disinformation are just doing it for the money and the perks of fame.  They do not want to live in the world they are promoting...but then again, with their money they never will.  Southhampton is not part of the US.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Mike G said:

I wonder if she knows that some news is about to drop that will position her at the top of her party.

She certainly has connections.

If Trump was about to get an indictment for a serious crime, for example?  That would make his followers look like the complete idiots they are.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, 3to1 said:

here's another disingenuous right-leaning fuckwit flailing and trying to suggest, and deflect from, the all too relevant reality that the 'merican right isn't by a vast margin, the 'greater of two evils'. that's where you're just sucking your own dick over and over basically because you're cognitively disadvantaged, it'd be fine if you stopped leaving that fuckery in text here like piles of dog shit on the floor.

who's the stupid fuck now...

Lol

 

Holy mother of all word salads batsman!!!

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Perhaps she has limits and the current R party went blowing right past them.

Even little W found her father to be a bridge too far.  Unfortunately, it was past his sell date.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

Not one person here has claimed that.  In fact, it has been repeatedly stated that the former guy is the symptom, not the disease.  Your points would be better taken if they weren't so obviously filled with bullshit.  

Oh fer fecksake.

What a load of revisionist cowshíte.

If you nancies even take a smelly shíte these days you blame it on Trump.

 

Lol

 

 

lol

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

"Angry Leprechaun" would be a great band name... maybe a concept album titled "Bad Luck"

- DSK

“Top o the morning to ya”

 

“Ya see I'm Irish, but I'm not a leprechaun
You want to fight, then step up and we'll get it on
You'll get a right to the grill, I'm white and I ill
A descendant of Dublin with titanic skill
I ducked and I swing, next thing your jaw's broken
Punk I ain't jokin, you can bet you'll be chokin
on a fist full of nuttin, meanwhile I'll be puffin
on a fat blunt, what punk? You don't know the half
Tryin to talk shit, man, please don't make me laugh
These Irish eyes are smilin, I'm buckwhylin
The House of Pain is pumpin, start jumpin
Freak it, funk it, back seat trunk it
If you can't get with it, you'll wind up sweatin it
Then you'll get a beatin just like an egg
It's so hard to run when you got a broken leg
But we can have a run off, the House of Pain'll come off
We got the cake that you're tryin to get a crumb off
The Irish stylee, the Celtic jazz
No one has it, just us that's it
If you try to take it, I got a big shileighly
I don't have dreads cause I shave my head daily
You call me a skinhead, I call you a pin head
Yo, where you been man, just like the Tin Man
you got no heart, here comes the good part
I pick 'em, buck 'em, cut 'em up, and buck 'em down
No fuckin around, homeboy ya get clowned like Krusty
Trust me, you shouldn't play.. and by the way
Top o' the mornin to ya.. "What's the hassle man?" 
Top o' the mornin to ya.. "What's the hassle man?"
Top o' the mornin to ya.. "What's the hassle man?" 
Top o' the mornin to ya..
"Hey, are you givin us a hassle man?"

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, badlatitude said:

The former secretary of state warns of the danger to democracy of lies flourishing online – and says big tech’s wings must be clipped

This blood thirsty lying piece of shit sociopathic war criminal worried about fake news? The worst candidate in history actually lost to an orange clown (literally). :lol:

And how about wmds in Iraq or the gun running operation in Libya? More lies.. $

Can't fix stupid, maybe stick with the Trump threads loser. 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sea warrior said:

Lol

 

Holy mother of all word salads batsman!!!

 

 

 

 

apt and honest description>'word salad'. go get 'em, turd burglar.

Link to post
Share on other sites

One reason that people become enamored by the lying Reich . . 

is that they come to believe that the Dem's are as bad or worse 

when it comes to disinformation.  

Those peeps are very wrong. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Remember that history (i.e. reality) is written by the winners.  They are planning to be the winners.  They very well may be.  

And yes, the US is in big trouble. 

What is most disturbing is that the chief fomenters of the disinformation are just doing it for the money and the perks of fame.  They do not want to live in the world they are promoting...but then again, with their money they never will.  Southhampton is not part of the US.  

They're creating the world of "Freejack".

Doesn't matter how fucked up it gets as long as they are on top.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Objective truth is a concept invented by woke librul antifa commie gun-grabbers.  Don't need none of that shit 'round here.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

They're creating the world of "Freejack".

Doesn't matter how fucked up it gets as long as they are on top.

I wonder who else gets this quote? That was a fairly obscure movie.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have tried to be nice and civil with bullshit repeaters around here over the years. That does not work when people see you as their enemy that they must own. Bullshit festers and spreads when left alone. I have concluded that bullshit and bullshitters must be confronted head-on. No niceties. No pleasant synonyms. Confront bullshitters before they destroy our world. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I have tried to be nice and civil with bullshit repeaters around here over the years. That does not work when people see you as their enemy that they must own. Bullshit festers and spreads when left alone. I have concluded that bullshit and bullshitters must be confronted head-on. No niceties. No pleasant synonyms. Confront bullshitters before they destroy our world. 

I keep wondering why Trump got such deference from the media. TRUMP LIES should have been the headline and lead-in to almost every single thing he did instead of some gentle suggestion that something is not quite accurate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Trumps greatest victory  was undermining fact and turning the right wing into a cult of personality.   Now that they can ignore scientists, ignore the courts, essentially ignore every voice of reason, everything is much better for people like Sea Warrior. They simply believe what ever they want and ignore the rest. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

What DeSantis is doing in Florida is a perfect example.  We have all this data on how the virus spreads, but it's OK to stop the use of vaccination cards to get into group gatherings because reasons. This is an assault on simple common sense, but the party of personality can't see it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Trumps greatest victory  was undermining fact and turning the right wing into a cult of personality.   Now that they can ignore scientists, ignore the courts, essentially ignore every voice of reason, everything is much better for people like Sea Warrior. They simply believe what ever they want and ignore the rest. 

I suspect that is a matter of upbringing. I learned early on that speaking anything but the whole truth would not result in pleasantries. Some kids didn’t get that lesson. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I suspect that is a matter of upbringing. I learned early on that speaking anything but the whole truth would not result in pleasantries. Some kids didn’t get that lesson. 

Aye, sure ya were.

 

 

lol

A4AC9089-6894-4360-A8FD-3EB962006558.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:
8 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

They're creating the world of "Freejack".

Doesn't matter how fucked up it gets as long as they are on top.

I wonder who else gets this quote? That was a fairly obscure movie.

While it sounded familiar, I did have to look it up.  Now, I have to watch it, again.  Likely with my son.  It'll be interesting to see how the effects hold up.

But, Sloop's final comment is 100% accurate.  They seem willing to do anything to make that happen.

Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

Aye, sure ya were.

 

 

lol

 

OK.  So was the protest peaceful?  Were people injured or did they die? In the specific protest that video was talking about. 

Answer the question factually please. 

This is the problem.  Sea warrior is blind to it. The posting of baseless meme rather than fact.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

OK.  So was the protest peaceful?  Were people injured or did they die? In the specific protest that video was talking about. 

Answer the question factually please. 

This is the problem.  Sea warrior is blind to it. The posting of baseless meme rather than fact.

Tell the property owners that the riots were mostly peaceful.

Heck, tell the whole south side of Chicago that these riots were mostly peaceful.

 

Ya going to spout off about disinformation on the right then that’s fine but you shouldn’t be surprised when you are called out on your own bullshite propaganda 

 

You absolute buffoon you..

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I keep wondering why Trump got such deference from the media. TRUMP LIES should have been the headline and lead-in to almost every single thing he did instead of some gentle suggestion that something is not quite accurate.

I don't think Shitstain got much deference from the media. I even remember HuffPost refusing to cover him as a serious candidate. But I'm not sure how many Republicans were swayed by that.

https://www.businessinsider.com/huffington-post-refuses-to-cover-donald-trump-2015-7

Even though Shitstain is a creature of the media, he isn't a creation of the media. Indeed I do not blame the media for him at all. I blame Republican voters who strongly supported him and strongly support him to this day. That's not on the Brian Williams. That's on Republicans, the common clay of the new West.

In fact, I see blaming this on the media as a weird sort of Bothsiderism or something. The blame for Shitstain rests squarely on Republicans. The media didn't do this. Democrats didn't do this by nominating Hillary either. (Hi Jeff!). This is on Republicans, supporters and non-supporting supporters alike. If anything Shitstain unmasked Republicans as their fascist true selves.

Other non-creations of the media, QAnon, birtherism and the Tea Party. I think blaming things like this on the media is reductionist.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I knew we were in trouble when I heard trump, at the beginning of his run make claims like 'we're going to send back 11 million illegals.'

Not one reporter got out a calculator and said something like "that's 30K a day.  HOW do you plan on actually doing that?"

Claim after claim was made without ANY hard questions of how/why/when.

Those same reporters NOW have no problem micro-analyzing things Biden says.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grrr... said:

What DeSantis is doing in Florida is a perfect example.  We have all this data on how the virus spreads, but it's OK to stop the use of vaccination cards to get into group gatherings because reasons. This is an assault on simple common sense, but the party of personality can't see it. 

He's part of The Team.  Anyone who isn't is The Enemy. 2+2 can equal 5, if enough members of The Team have that opinion. Ditto the Sun rising in the West. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of shitstains, never forget that those shitstain rags, The Clinton News Network and the Wpo were forced to settle a lawsuit over their lies and defamation of a teenager a few years ago. 
That ‘press’ coverage was tantamount to child abuse, what a sick bunch of fucks those ‘reporters’ are.


Leftie loons be like.. “my shitstains are better than your shitstains “

 

Lol

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does the US economy usually do better with a Democrat in the White House? I would love to hear some actual facts, proving that this is not true.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Mike G said:

I knew we were in trouble when I heard trump, at the beginning of his run make claims like 'we're going to send back 11 million illegals.'

Not one reporter got out a calculator and said something like "that's 30K a day.  HOW do you plan on actually doing that?"

Claim after claim was made without ANY hard questions of how/why/when.

Those same reporters NOW have no problem micro-analyzing things Biden says.

Shitstain was engaging in a Galloping Gish. He would follow up that 11 million claim with 10 other equally wild claims, all false. It was impossible to taken any of it seriously other than to note his high approval ratings among his base, more so when he said something outrageous, less so when it wasn't sufficiently outrageous.

Biden by comparison is not on Twitter at 3AM. He is, dare I say it, more Presidential and speaks less. So it is possible to micro-analyze what Biden says because what he says is meant to be taken seriously. I love hearing Jen Psaki's explanations because they ware well thought out and in grammatically correct complete sentences.

Again, this is not the media's fault, or rather, the two media's faults.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I went to a Pol Sci conference back around the time WJ Clinton was inaugurated. 

The presenters included a team from the New York Times who informed us that they 

had a group of investigators in Arkansas looking into something called Whitewater, 

and that Clinton was likely going to face prosecution. 

They worked that story for months on end, tarnishing Clinton's reputation in the process. 

And they never came up with a thing . . nothing. 

The NYT hounded the Clinton's for decades. 

Without that, HRC would have won in a walk 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, AJ Oliver said:

I went to a Pol Sci conference back around the time WJ Clinton was inaugurated. 

The presenters included a team from the New York Times who informed us that they 

had a group of investigators in Arkansas looking into something called Whitewater, 

and that Clinton was likely going to face prosecution. 

They worked that story for months on end, tarnishing Clinton's reputation in the process. 

And they never came up with a thing . . nothing. 

The NYT hounded the Clinton's for decades. 

Without that, HRC would have won in a walk 

 

How many "-gates" are associated with the Clintons?

How many convictions resulted?

That family makes the Corleones look like rank amateurs.

Or, they didn't do what is alleged.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

Speaking of shitstains, never forget that those shitstain rags, The Clinton News Network and the Wpo were forced to settle a lawsuit over their lies and defamation of a teenager a few years ago. 

Incorrect. The kid was forced to settle to avoid having to pay cnn and Wapo’s legal bills.  little Christian extremist couldn’t even get an apology because he was dumb enough to hire a Republican lawyer. 
 

trivia question: are Christians stupid because 

1) god replaces Christian kids’ brains with scripture and fear;

2) Christian kids’ brains are irreparably wrecked because of the child sex abuse; 

3) forcing children to believe retarded fairy tales has some measurable long term effects on brain development; or

4) all of the above

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I WILL ASK THIS AGAIN. WHY DOES THE USA PERFORM BETTER WITH A DEMOCRAT AS PRESIDENT?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites