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News: Vets For Peace historic vessel departs Hawaii


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The Golden Rule, famed anti-nuke peace vessel, has put to sea from Hawaii bound for the US West coast. 

The plan is to do the US Great Loop over the next several years. 

We're always looking for more good crew: sailor-photographers/poets & writers/grant writers/ and more.  

You can follow the progress here . .  share.garmin.com/goldenrule 

More news .  

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/05/05/golden-rule-peace-boat-sets-sail-hawaii-california

Golden Rule Peace Boat Sets Sail from Hawai’i for California - LA Progressive

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Errr...one small problem. There is not one post wishing ill on the crew.    Why is that oh erudite one ? In my world,. when you act like a dick your mates will give you a nudge. In case yo

As I think this over, it occurs that US politics are needlessly complex. In a nutshell, you either lap up AJ's drool and spittle, or ... you're a Nazi. Simple stuff really. 

Well, AJ is doing his best to ensure goodwill and promotion of their message. Vets for Peace (or AJ?) marketing philosophy....passive/aggressive insults always win out in the end.  

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These are the kind of people who give a bad name to environmentalists, hippies and sailors, all at once.

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During the 21 months that the Golden Rule was in Hawai'i, project manager Helen Jaccard and others spoke in over 100 events in communities in all the Hawaiian Islands, except for Ni'ihau, concerning the dangers of nuclear weapons and the growing danger of nuclear war. With its red (tan bark) sails emblazoned with a large peace sign and the logo of Veterans For Peace, the Golden Rule has become a familiar sight to many in the Hawaiian islands.

"We are sailing for a nuclear-free world and a peaceful, sustainable future," said Golden Rule Helen Jaccard. 

 

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2 hours ago, apophenia said:

These are the kind of people who give a bad name to environmentalists, hippies and sailors, all at once.

Yeah, never mind that they may well have saved your life. 

Do you have any substantive questions or comments ? 

Didn't think so. 

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1 hour ago, AJ Oliver said:

Yeah, never mind that they may well have saved your life. 

Do you have any substantive questions or comments ? 

Didn't think so. 

Until recently, anti-nuke has meant pro coal and oil, and these idiots seem to have been at it from day one.

My substantive comment to them is to shut up and go home before they do any more damage.

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I admire them for having a go at something they believe is a worthy cause and read the article with interest. But if first impressions do matter, they need to do something about the visual appeal. 

I get the boat and the sail color and the meaning, but it looks exactly like a protest boat crewed by a couple of pot smoking barefooted hippies. The story behind the color of the sails is nice, but not nice enough to offset the horrific look. The boat could well be spotless, but it sure as shit doesn't look like a boat ex-USN mariners have set foot on. 

They should change the sails to white and make the logos look more professional, would make the boat look right smart and sell the story much better. 

 

   

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So...........

When are they planning to cruise off the coasts of the aspiring nuclear powers, Iran and North Korea?

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9 hours ago, apophenia said:

Until recently, anti-nuke has meant pro coal and oil, and these idiots seem to have been at it from day one.

My substantive comment to them is to shut up and go home before they do any more damage.

And @slap ,  @Blue Crab

Generally, the more people know about nuclear weapons the more frightened they are . . 

such as Robt. McNamara, Rickover, and former SecDef Wm Perry 

How about if y'all take Perry's on-line course at Stanford and get back to us ? (I scored a 98) 

https://online.stanford.edu/courses/fsi-y0002-living-nuclear-brink-yesterday-and-today

And personally, I could not go through life without standing up for that which I believe. 

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11 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

That's cool but the horses got out of the barn on nukes a ways back. Quite a ways back, actually.

And your solution is to give the hell up ?? 

Do you have the faintest idea of how many people around the planet are working on this ?? 

It is really a long list. ICAN, Atomic Scientists . . 

But you not only choose to give up, you actually discourage others from even trying 

I have zero respect for you. 

Every single person in the photo below is a towering moral giant compared to y'all 

The campaign - ICAN

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Today's Golden Rule update . .

Golden Rule is making great progress!
Captain Kiko reports that everyone is doing well.
Right now, Malinda is teaching Nolan how to steer by the stars.
Our weather router, Leroy Zerlang, recommends going north to Latitude 36 before heading more easterly.
(Mr. Zerlang is a top-notch weather router.)
The white dot shows their present location. They'll sail north of the blue area (near the x), which is calm, the Great Pacific High.
Then they will turn more directly east and slightly south to get to San Francisco Bay.  

0?ui=2&ik=e3bf6519e1&attid=0.5&permmsgid=msg-f:1699126991767552119&th=179482ff24954077&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ-mSWx93OUYTah1sgBW5A7OsBkm8ZPz3E3hHUB-0kBVkdSCSCKNPvActl6D5SE-XIvOGj2pSHfeqTPj6dbdXpgv9AruI6M8MNvLu5wwWfsVn2XAy50A84V0iXM&disp=emb&realattid=ii_koeo7xll4

 

0?ui=2&ik=e3bf6519e1&attid=0.2&permmsgid=msg-f:1699126991767552119&th=179482ff24954077&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ90z8HCOqLKQ_AxKSqXlTnhwU32kt8b5zsoNl5N_vMh9ZO1m30ZuOnw_XZK8y6dFAhg6fvbvjwMQHwXXw6B8S30K53A3j5JRBl4EqH_kKgfQsa9ULFFaEdWQVc&disp=emb&realattid=ii_koek4krl1

 

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And let me just observe how pathetic it is for some sailors here 

to wish ill on others who venture out on the wine dark seas . .  

You could just keep silent, or make a constructive criticism . .  But NOOOOOOOO 

That is what the Reich does, and who they are. 

Vets For Peace 

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5 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

And let me just observe how pathetic it is for some sailors here 

to wish ill on others who venture out on the wine dark seas . .  

You could just keep silent, or make a constructive criticism . .  But NOOOOOOOO 

That is what the Reich does, and who they are. 

Vets For Peace 

Vintery, mintery, cutery, cornApple seed and apple thornWire, briar, limber lock Three geese in a flock. One flew east And one flew west And one flew over the cuckoo's nest.

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10 hours ago, zenmasterfred said:

A little self righteous me thinks.

It is not about me, it is about the crew. 

@Blue Crab And your poetry is as bad as your attitude - which you don't even bother to try to defend. 

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Well, AJ is doing his best to ensure goodwill and promotion of their message.

Vets for Peace (or AJ?) marketing philosophy....passive/aggressive insults always win out in the end.

 

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47 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

Well, AJ is doing his best to ensure goodwill and promotion of their message.

Vets for Peace (or AJ?) marketing philosophy....passive/aggressive insults always win out in the end.

 

:lol:

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I thought he was talking about people who look after animals until I read this thread. 

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3 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

Well, AJ is doing his best to ensure goodwill and promotion of their message.

Vets for Peace (or AJ?) marketing philosophy....passive/aggressive insults always win out in the end.

Yeah, call me a bad dude for calling out those who wish ill on those who venture out on risky passages. 

Sir, you are a punk of the lowest order. 

I may not be the most articulate representative of VFP 

But you could read some Chalmers Johnson, Andy Bacevich, Danny Sjursen, Dan Ellsberg, and . . . 

But you won't, will you ?? 

Or, this is on my reading list for tomorrow . .   You might read it too. 

https://thebulletin.org/2021/03/an-existential-discussion-what-is-the-probability-of-nuclear-war/

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22 hours ago, zenmasterfred said:

A little self righteous me thinks.

One of our supporters and former crew members lives on Friday Harbor. 

Why don't you take up your issues with him ?? 

Just don't start another pig war - it will likely go nuclear this time. 

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I'm beginning to wonder if Hasher and AJ are the same person. They are certainly brothers under the covers.

Sane readers know that no one wishes the actual sailors any misfortune, but the adventure is quixotic, to put it as mildly as possible, and championed by an old tiny college uberlib that no one has ever heard of nor paid any attention to when he posted his raging silliness on internet blogs and considered himself "published." His body of work is like Chum's body of work or weirdo Floriduh Tom with his vast index of his own posts.

Meanwhile, we need to get a gps tracker so we can tag along with the "historic" voyage. I hope that after this Old Whiney Farts for Peace effort successfully embarrasses NK, Iran, and every other little nook and cranny that hopes to obliterate their neighbors for god and country into giving up their nuclear ambitions, they can then head to the Taiwan Strait and settle that shit down for once and for all. 

 

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1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

NK, Iran, and every other little nook and cranny that hopes to obliterate their neighbors

Both those countries had working anti-nuke treaties in place  ..  

until your elk (i.e., the US Reich) blew them up with malice aforethought.  

In fact, your main man Tom Cotton tried to sabotage the Iran deal 

before it was even fully negotiated or signed. 

Take that Stanford online course and get back to us . . . but of course you will not bother, 

much preferring to wallow in your own ignorance. 

https://online.stanford.edu/courses/fsi-y0002-living-nuclear-brink-yesterday-and-today

You've got Dunning-Kruger written all over you. 

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As I think this over, it occurs that US politics are needlessly complex. In a nutshell, you either lap up AJ's drool and spittle, or ... you're a Nazi.

Simple stuff really. 

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53 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

As I think this over, it occurs that US politics are needlessly complex. In a nutshell, you either lap up AJ's drool and spittle, or ... you're a Nazi.

Simple stuff really. 

All you have is juvenile name calling - 

"Reichista" doesn't count, it has to be hard earned - by you. 

Here is the Vets For Peace advisory board - I'm proud to be a small part of it. 

(Google "Advisory Board - Veterans For Peace) 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

As I think this over, it occurs that US politics are needlessly complex. In a nutshell, you either lap up AJ's drool and spittle, or ... you're a Nazi.

Simple stuff really. 

That is EXACTLY why I put that lunatic on ignore. He’s more than welcome to go outside and yell at the clouds, but his Reich bullshit shoved him on to the ignore list. I don’t really care about his freeloading friends. 

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39 minutes ago, Monkey said:

his Reich bullshit

The GOPPER involvement in the insurrection, and their silence about it since, and their knowing embrace of the Big Lie . . . 

all go to show that my use of the label "Reich" for that elk was, and is, entirely appropriate. 

I will continue to use it for the Drumph and his supporters. 

If you do not like it, well that is just tough tacos. 

The Reich loves to dish out name-calling, big time rudeness, and disrespect . . 

But they cannot take it when some of us give it back to them. 

Life is just SO unfair. 

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I do sense just the tiniest bit of skepticism here about the Vets For Peace anti-nuke project. 

Several points - 

1. We have many allies and are just a part of a global movement. See ICAN for example. 

2. I would respectfully request that you read this short article from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. 

https://thebulletin.org/2021/03/an-existential-discussion-what-is-the-probability-of-nuclear-war/ 

A child born today has a better than even chance of experiencing a nuclear war. 

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I think y’all went over the edge, AJ.
Full on Nazi as stated above.

Go bloviate somewhere else about nukes. We gave at the office.

 

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If I were the group, I would very embarrassed to have you offering your ambassadorship on their behalf. I bet they would tell you to quit interfering with their effort and change your avatar to avoid affiliation with you, you armchair preacher of the Green Deal

 

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1 hour ago, AJ Oliver said:

A child born today has a better than even chance of experiencing a nuclear war. 

Well, the kid won't have to experience it too long. :o

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2 hours ago, Monkey said:

That is EXACTLY why I put that lunatic on ignore. He’s more than welcome to go outside and yell at the clouds, but his Reich bullshit shoved him on to the ignore list. I don’t really care about his freeloading friends. 

That is exactly why I got off PA, and now he's here. He's like stepping in dogshit barefooted. 

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8 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

If I were the group, I would very embarrassed to have you offering your ambassadorship on their behalf. I bet they would tell you to quit interfering with their effort and change your avatar to avoid affiliation with you, you armchair preacher of the Green Deal

They know me. I was a part of the first crew of the restored vessel. 

The thrill of a lifetime. 

So I take it that the article from the Bulletin was too deep for y'all ?? 

So much so that you never even tried to lift a scant finger to read it ??  About what I expected. 

And to this grizzled ol' guy, it was gratifying to read that both of the authors' approaches were taught in my classes. 

Quantitative and Qualitative . .  

I am acquiring somewhat of a distaste for ignorant (and proud of it) cyber-trolls. 

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AJ, I probably agree with 95% of what you believe in but you really come off as a prick.  I have to agree with the comment below.  As an environmentalist, hippie and sailor myself, this is not the path.  If you piss of half of SA in a half dozen posts how are you planning on negotiating a path forward with Iran?  Or Republicans?  

On 5/6/2021 at 6:43 PM, apophenia said:

These are the kind of people who give a bad name to environmentalists, hippies and sailors, all at once.

 

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He’all seems to think that I didn’t read the article or that I don’t care about the world we live in. I am not a cyber troll, I responded to his posts after he showed what a thin skinned Leftist he is, badgering other posters and 

AJ, go back to PA where you belong and take your Perry course and nuke boat with you. 

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So not a one of you skeptics could be bothered to take five minutes to read this . .

https://thebulletin.org/2021/03/an-existential-discussion-what-is-the-probability-of-nuclear-war/

or even post any of your own sources ?? 

And as to your @Sail4beer  thread drift, why is AOC so evil for favoring $ 15 min wage, or M4A ? 

And of course your attack on AOC is a distortion, taken from one of your handlers . . 

She was addressing clumsy fact-checks, and actually said . 

 “If people want to really blow up one figure here or one word there, I would argue that they’re missing the forest for the trees. I think that there’s a lot of people more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right.” 

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Ok, morally righteous PA escapee. Ok. 
 

As I said earlier, I read the article you posted. Once again, you claim that nobody reads your links. They are on an awareness raising trip against nukes. Go for it. Since you are a proud member of the team, I expect them to all be nuts(of course) like you, so I don’t care about their trip or their cause. I will, however, approve of our Coast Guard assisting them in case they run into trouble. 
 

Thanks for politicizing and dumping on your own thread. Again. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I will, however, approve of our Coast Guard assisting them in case they run into trouble. 

Actually, the original skipper of the GR in 1958 was a WWII Navy Commander . . and the first time out the GR encountered major difficulty with a storm and incapacitated crew. 

A US Navy destroyer steamed several hundred miles into the teeth of a big storm to offer assistance. 

Skipper Bigelow wrote about it in his book . .   it's a good read. 

First published in 1959, THE VOYAGE OF THE GOLDEN RULE is an honest and inspiring record of a remarkable voyage and the men who made it. It is an important account of a noble action, one which focused the attention of the world and its governments on a problem that must be solved immediately if mankind is to survive.

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The crew morale is good despite a lot of wind and gusts (for this boat).  The rolling and pitching makes it difficult to keep your balance and cooking is impossible right now.  The crew is only sleeping on the leeward (port) side of Golden Rule, making lee cloths (to hold you in your bunk) unnecessary.

 The wind vane self steering system works well, but when the mizzen sail is up, it can overpower the steering, making it necessary to use a “tiller tamer” (rope between the tiller and the side of the boat to stabilize steering).  When the wind is very strong, they lower the mizzen sail - then the self-steering works better and the rolling and pitching decreases as well.

 They are often steering by the north star and able to turn off the chart plotter at night.

 We’re seeing less (but adequate) wind starting tomorrow, which should allow the crew to have hot meals and get organized again.  If they need a break at some point, they can “heave to”, which will bring the boat to a stop.

 They’ll continue north to latitude 36 before veering more easterly.

 Right now, they’re traveling at 6.2 kt (7.2 miles/hour) and have gone 360 nautical miles (418 land miles) from Hawaii. 

It’s about 2360 nautical miles (2700 miles) from Honolulu to San Francisco, so they’re around 15% across in 3.5 days.

The crew all say, “It’s a wonderful experience!”

Reminder - you can see their progress at https://share.garmin.com/goldenrule

 Comments from supporters -

 Fred Galluccio: Great. Hope u guys r wel 

 Cynthia Massa: MAHALO HELEN FOR THE UPDATE! Thank You for forwarding the emails too :)

 Aloha Sis Captain Malinda and Captain Kiko and Crew! Im so thankful that all is well and you are making good progress as You head North. Glad to hear everyone is settled in with minimal seasickness. AWESOME Nolan is learning to navigate by the Stars. Prayers up for you and The Golden Rule to be safe, find wind, and for everyone to be happy, healthy and thankful. EPIC Voyage for you 4! Love you sis, Cyn

 Susan Schiele: SO inspiring.  In total admiration, Susan Schiele

 Donald McIntyre: Thanks for the updates it's great. My sister is Malinda couldn't be more proud of her!

 Tiffany Anderson: Wonderful progress!  Enjoy the wind and stars!

 Jackie Barshak: Very moving (double entendre)!  Keep me in the loop so I can greet her properly in SF.

 Laura Lindberg: Wonderful progress! Thank you for updates. I’m chanting for the Golden Rule, Kiko and crew to arrive safely in SF healthy and in good time crossing the Pacific Ocean

 Debbie Skinner: So glad for a successful trip!

Blessings to you all from Debbie Skinner (Jamie Skinner's wife)

(Note - Jamie was a crew on Golden Rule when they left San Diego for Hawai’I. That voyage ended when the engine failed.  Jamie has since passed away.  I feel honored to have known him!)

 Kathy Evans: So stoked for you Malinda! Safe travels to all the crew! Enjoy those stars! Loving following along on the journey with you!

 

 
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22 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Take it to PA, AJ. People have been polite. 

How about if we leave that up to the Mods ? I will cheerfully abide by their decisions. 

I don't own this place, and neither do you. 

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On 5/9/2021 at 1:26 PM, AJ Oliver said:

Yeah, call me a bad dude for calling out those who wish ill on those who venture out on risky passages. 

Errr...one small problem. There is not one post wishing ill on the crew.  

On 5/9/2021 at 1:26 PM, AJ Oliver said:

Sir, you are a punk of the lowest order.

 Why is that oh erudite one ?

In my world,. when you act like a dick your mates will give you a nudge. In case you're a bit dim, I'm giving you a nudge fella. 

I , like some others here, did read what you linked and bothered to read up on it. Fucked if I know why when it comes with such an attitude, but I did because it's about people believing in something higher than themselves. You could do with some education on how to run a non profit but overall a good cause.

Then you add the AJ factor. Overly sensitive, defensive, doesn't bother reading responses, angry, petulant, hate filled,  jumps to pre-conceived conclusions...shall I go on?

I'll try and put it in terms you seem to use. You are just another parasite milking off a worthy cause looking for relevance, whilst in reality your prescence does them a great disservice. Everyone is a Reichista because you're too arrogant to think of people as equals and not unwashed illiterates your ego believes only your intellect can save. A quiet word in your shell like ear sport, it isn't a problem with your audience, it's you. 

I was going to donate to VfP, like I do with the returned services here at home. But with you as a role model for who I am investing in? 

Never in your wildest dreams.

 

Now back to AJ doing his level best to make sure Vets for Peace look like a movement of self entitled fuckwits. A reputation they have now earned not through their deeds, all because of AJ.

Bravo Mr Spokesperson, bravo. 

 

 

 

 

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Hmm, the registration is California from the pics. Hasn’t been there in 50 years.

Been paying registration fees all these years? 

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I'm not one to pick ninnies but I misunderstood. Now they're NOT going to Iran and NK and will be doing the "Great" Loop?     WTAF?

I'm kinda stuck on the magnitude of difference.  It's more than one.  

So, stay safe and sound? Here at home?. And along the way they'll be working as Jehovah's Witnesses compared to sailing into enemy waters on a mission of peace and good will albeit 50 years late? That bunch of old retired farts trying to continue living on somebodies' teat? And you're a honcho? That fucking bunch?

This is a GOFUNDME deal, amirite?

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4 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Hmm, the registration is California from the pics. Hasn’t been there in 50 years.

Been paying registration fees all these years? 

We sorted that. 

Unlike you, we are legal. 

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6 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

I , like some others here, did read what you linked and bothered to read up on it. Fucked if I know why when it comes with such an attitude, but I did because it's about people believing in something higher than themselves. You could do with some education on how to run a non profit but overall a good cause.

Indeed it is a good cause. 

And actually, a GR sister ship did visit and protest nukes in East Asian waters. 

You are correct that I did not read much of your post. 

Why would anyone do that ? 

Did you read this (below) ?  

11 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

 

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He said that he did.  Can't you read or does it just not suit the yarn you are trying spin.

Worst publicist ever.

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11 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

Then you add the AJ factor. Overly sensitive, defensive, doesn't bother reading responses, angry, petulant, hate filled,  jumps to pre-conceived conclusions...shall I go on?

I worked all that out (and more) before the number of his posts in PA got to double figures. He suffers from the same problem that Trump has - his opinion of his intellect & abilities isn't in line with observed reality.

FKT

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8 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

We sorted that. 

Unlike you, we are legal. 

Finally sorted that out after 50 years, right?
How about a little backstory on how the boat avoided registration for so many years and “finally” got into conformity like the rest of us legal boat owners. 
 

Now what is illegal about my sailboats? I don’t have out of date and state registration...

I am slightly more aware of reality than you might like

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I worked all that out (and more) before the number of his posts in PA got to double figures. He suffers from the same problem that Trump has - his opinion of his intellect & abilities isn't in line with observed reality.

FKT

And needless to add, AJ doesn't realize how Trump/Fascist-like his presentation is. The real conceit is his thinking that somehow, he knows more than we do about the nuclear risk. Doubtless true back in his day of sage on the stage with teenagers in his tiny Christian college classroom. Here, among accomplished educated grownups he is, unsurprisingly, out of place.

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Imagine paying to be held captive in a classroom with him as the “Educator”.

Grew up with a sac like him. Never worked a day in his life- a constant student for 30+ years to get a Phd in marine biology. Finally, got a gig as an associate professor at a small Florida college about 5 years ago. He came back north to the club for the summer picnic and he demanded to be called Dr. HA! I reminded him that he had never called my father a doctor, with his Juris Doctor degree of law. He couldn’t handle the fact that after consuming himself with education and University, he was just another dumbass that no one listened to unless they were stuck in a desk at school. 

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I figured that since they are doing nothing but bobbing for a few days, they can fire up the satellite line and get in touch with their shoreside representative, AJ

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3 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Imagine paying to be held captive in a classroom with him as the “Educator”.

I can’t. 
I went to college for an afternoon. I did about 30 minutes with a guy like AJ with his brown jacket with the elbow patches. I quit right then and never looked back. 
Best decision of my life except marrying my wife. 

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4 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

How about a little backstory on how the boat avoided registration for so many years

You are making stuff up just like a real dyed in the wool Trumpista; 

very nearly as ignorant and malevolent as the original. 

(VFP never even owned the vessel until 2010, idjit) 

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I saw that the registration was up to date. It was pure trolling. Not necessarily made up as you say.

 

You need to get back to PA, Lefty, you can bang your head against the wall all you want there. 

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I say good job to those guys (and girls).  

I am however a bit concerned that they conflate nuclear weapons and nuclear power plants.  As stated in the article:  "The one-year-plus voyage will see the Golden Rule stopping for events in dozens of communities along the route, often where nuclear weapons manufacturers and nuclear power plants are located."

I can understand the opposition to nuclear weapons.  But nuclear power plants have the potential to be a safe method for generating electricity that produces (essentially) no CO2 emissions.  Electricity needed for all those Teslas, our refrigerators, computers and air conditioners.   What is the basis for their opposition to nuclear generating stations other than the word 'nuclear'?  

 

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On 5/7/2021 at 11:20 AM, AJ Oliver said:

And @slap ,  @Blue Crab

Generally, the more people know about nuclear weapons the more frightened they are . . 

such as Robt. McNamara, Rickover, and former SecDef Wm Perry 

 

I don't pay much attention to the whims and whining of politicians so the latest "evolved" opinions of McNamara and Perry don't interest me.

I spent seven years in the US nuclear submarine navy including six patrols on a second generation SSBN. I don't recall Rickover being anti-nuke. He was all about excellence and procedure as the path to safety so the very idea seems absurd.

But, if you have a link I will be happy to click on it.

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15 minutes ago, Bugsy said:

I say good job to those guys (and girls).  

I am however a bit concerned that they conflate nuclear weapons and nuclear power plants. 

Thanks for the good wishes, and the same back atcha. 

Like many organizations - Vets For Peace, ICAN, Peace Action, etc. - we have an ongoing debate about nuclear power. Some see it as a valuable tool in the face of global warming. 

Others question how clean and safe it really is. To me, it is revealing that in spite of all the promotion and lobbying of the nuke power industry, no one is yet willing to insure those plants. And my family lives downwind of both the MI Fermi plants and Davis-Bessie - both of which have had alarming safety issues. 

As always, mine is not the last word on the subject. 

 

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7 minutes ago, sailpower said:

I spent seven years in the US nuclear submarine navy including six patrols on a second generation SSBN.

I wonder if you ever served with or heard of Cmd Tom Rogers, a retired nuke sub commander. 

He has also served as a skipper of the Golden Rule

Not all nuclear sailors are pro-nuke. 

I'll look for that Rickover link, and will apologize if I cannot find it. 

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49 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

I wonder if you ever served with or heard of Cmd Tom Rogers, a retired nuke sub commander. 

He has also served as a skipper of the Golden Rule

Not all nuclear sailors are pro-nuke. 

I'll look for that Rickover link, and will apologize if I cannot find it. 

No. What boat did he command?

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So Mr Rogers was quite content to have the US government provide a career for him right up to the venerated status as commander of a USN submarine, then he decides to protest against it. 

He of course may have had a fundamental shift in his ideals over the course of his career, that would be understandable. So I looked up said gentlemen for that life changing moment and I'm struggling. Excerpt from an interview with the gent, bolding mine; 

You excelled in the military, and you say you’re still pro-military?

I was a child of the ‘60s. I lived in Haight-Ashbury for a little while in the mid-’60s, the summer of love, I was a hippie. Then I got drafted – the Vietnam War was raging – it was 1966, so the first thing I did was I went home, to Connecticut, and I went to the local Navy recruiter and I said, ‘I’m not into this Army thing, what can you do for me?’ … and I said thank you very much, let’s do it. And that’s how I stayed out of the Vietnam War.

So I was an unlikely candidate for my subsequent career, but I kind of fit. I was technically proficient, smart, knew how to work. Then they just kept making me offers I couldn’t refuse. I never was really committed to making the Navy a career, it just sort of happened. They kept promoting me. I was surprised at every promotion board.

Somewhat hypocritical, no? 

 

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I don't see anything at Sailforbeer's link.

?????

I did find the article you are quoting from and the photo shows that he retired as an 06 Captain not an 05 Commander.

Also shows that he was prior enlisted, ET1 which is E6.

Seems odd that there is nothing else about him coming up including nothing on his military career?

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, shaggybaxter said:

Somewhat hypocritical, no? 

Thanks for digging up that interview. Never heard of that  newpaper but rather liked the community it portrayed.

https://www.kitsapdailynews.com/news/seabeck-man-uses-traditional-japanse-wood-joinery-to-build-furniture/

Anyhow, also rather liked Roger's attitude, because back in the day when universities were keen on protesting this that and the other, saw friends switch out of physics majors because "nuclear energy" became a dirty word.

As Trudeau the older said, when 'politics' becomes a dirty word, that just opens the field to the second rate and the criminal.

Figured the student's Union should have applied the idea and campaigned to get our brightest and best into Nuclear Physics.

Sorry for the long story Shaggy.

Hypocrite? Nah-

Quote

Is it hard to go on base now that you've taken part in the continuing protest?

Absolutely not. I exercise my rights and obligations as a citizen of being an activist off the base. When I’m on the base I’m a Navy veteran, I use the facilities, and I feel very justified in doing so. I really have no relationships with anybody who is actively working on the base now, but if I did I would not compromise those relationships. I can live these two lives very happily within myself.

http://nuclearabolitionist.blogspot.com/2011_08_01_archive.html?m=0

IMHO what all his generation should have done, to make sure the knowledge was used well.

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Are y'all Reichistas gonna hang Bob McNamara out to dry too ?? 

He finally became woke, and more of a peace-nik than Capt. Tom. 

And @sailpower asked abut Rickover . .    

https://www.people.vcu.edu/~rsleeth/Rickover.html

PRESIDENT CARTER: One of the most remarkable things that he ever told me was when we were together on the submarine and he said that he wished that a nuclear explosive had never been evolved. And then he said, 'I wish that nuclear power had never been discovered.' And I said, 'Admiral, this is your life.' He said, 'I would forego all the accomplishments of my life, and I would be willing to forego all the advantages of nuclear power to propel ships, for medical research and for every other purpose of generating electric power, if we could have avoided the evolution of atomic explosives.' 

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Still waiting for your link to what you claim Rickover said about regretting nuclear weapons?

Why are you so abrasive?

Anti nuke warriors have been spouting their anti dogma since the 1960's.

The planet is still here.

Kind of like the world is going to end because of climate change which started in the 1970's as global cooling. The next Ice Age was eminent. Must raise taxes now.

When their doomsday predictions don't materialize climate zealots keep moving the goal posts.

Global cooling became global warming which morphed into climate change which keeps extending the doom date and the grant money.

The planet is still here.

Anyway, I gave you an opportunity to make your case re Rickover and you didn't.

You quote Carter not Rickover.

Moving on.

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, sailpower said:

Why are you so abrasive?

No shit.  If AJ would bother to read our posts, he'd realize that 97% of us caucus with the Ds, not the Rs. But he's not here for discussion. Nor are these voyagers on anything but a fool's errand. The nuclear die was cast long ago. And AJ's homework assignments to this group of intellectual superiors is spitting dead to windward. 

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First time I was ever called a reichist was from AJ. He’s funny if he think he knows my party affiliation while spewing leftist propaganda.

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Right wing crazies:   Calls those who disagree "Socialists"

Left wing crazies:  Calls those who disagree "National Socialists"   

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11 hours ago, sailpower said:

Anyway, I gave you an opportunity to make your case re Rickover and you didn't.

You quote Carter not Rickover.

You are about half right . .   but Rickover did say this directly . . 

So then what sense does it make for people to work on weapons systems that will end human life ?? 

CONGRESSMAN: What do you think is the - is the - is the prospect, then, for nuclear war?

AD RICKOVER: Well I think we'll probably destroy ourselves. 

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3 hours ago, slap said:

Left wing crazies:  Calls those who disagree "National Socialists" 

To repeat, if a person adheres to the Big Lie or supports Drumph, they are of the Reich. 

According to this principle, much as I dislike Liz Cheney, she would not be a Reichista. 

I hope that clarifies things for you.