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Does anyone have experience with one of the Origo clones like “Cookmate 3000“ or “Compass24 cooker”? What about built quality?  Are they comparable to the original, or just some Chinese crap that will melt the first time you light them? 
 

(And no, I am not interested in a alcohol vs. CNG vs. propane vs. electric vs. woodstove vs. micro atomic reactor thread. Just alcohol cookers, preferably original clones. Thank you!) 

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When we were hunting for non-pressurized alcohol stoves, the general opinion seemed to be the Cookmates worked as well, but the stainless quality was inferior (rust spotting) and had viciously sharp edges. More finish than function. Not familiar with the Compass24 brand.

Origos are scroungeable, if you are not pressed for time. We got ours for $80, including the surround tray and shipping. Have mucked around with homemade gimbal designs, but may end up buying OEM.

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19 minutes ago, 10thTonner said:

80 Bucks seems totally reasonalbe. Over here, some people try to move "NOS" Origo 3000's on ebay for EUR 480 or even 575!

It's one of those items with a crazy price range -- like used tillerpilots.:rolleyes: You get people asking $450 for a lightly battered ST-1000. Uh, I can buy a new model for less than that, you know?

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3 hours ago, 10thTonner said:

80 Bucks seems totally reasonalbe. Over here, some people try to move "NOS" Origo 3000's on ebay for EUR 480 or even 575!

Someone left one sitting outside the marina gate with a pile of other stuff with a sign that said "Free". I left the Origo, but I took the Garmin GPSmap 182.

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Why alcohol? Some friends of mine are going that way and I'm interested, but past experiences weren't so good. What's the buzz?

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1 hour ago, Russell Brown said:

Why alcohol? Some friends of mine are going that way and I'm interested, but past experiences weren't so good. What's the buzz?

If you have alcohol, you don't need no stinking stove.

Seriously, unpressurized alcohol stoves work well, without the drama of the pressurized ones setting the drapes on fire.

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For what it worth

 

Small boat test

 

 

 

I am a long term trangia and origo user

I was sent a maxco from tasmania by a forumite

I love it .... and it has a grill

Although they charged me import duty on it

I like alcohol stoves because the authorities ignore them. The insurance companies like you to have a certificate for gas but alcohol is no problem

 

I can also kill an alcohol fire with any liquid.... apart from scotch. and alcohol is easier to find than gas. I can get 5 gals of meths delivered to my door for 45 quid.

D

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, dylan winter said:

I can also kill an alcohol fire with any liquid.... apart from scotch. and alcohol is easier to find than gas. I can get 5 gals of meths delivered to my door for 45 quid.

D

Gas is not exactly hard to find in the UK though. Literally every caravan shop / outdoor shop & chandlery stocks it. As well as many garages. 
Gas boils the kettle faster (on a proper stove), is easier to use in practice (valve on, turn nob, light) and more convenient.

However as you say there are downsides with maintaining the installation. 

For my girlfriend to come sailing, an oven is none negotiable so gas actually is my only option. 

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7 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Curious what brand of alcohol are Canadians burning in their stoves?  

I have always used methyl hydrate (methanol) in my Origos. Used to have an unlimited supply when I worked offshore rigs, but even at hardware store prices it is way cheaper than the 'yottie' stuff.

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23 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

I have always used methyl hydrate (methanol) in my Origos. Used to have an unlimited supply when I worked offshore rigs, but even at hardware store prices it is way cheaper than the 'yottie' stuff.

Are you saying that you liberated it

 

D

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9 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

Why alcohol? Some friends of mine are going that way and I'm interested, but past experiences weren't so good. What's the buzz?

I have an Origo in my boat and had an Origo in my previous boat.

For clarity, these are unrelated to the Kenyon pressurized alcohol stoves of the 50s and 60s which contributed to many fires, which are fully deserving of the bad things people say about them.

The great things about Origos are that they are self-contained and widely considered safe for use aboard.  So, no propane system to purchase, install, or maintain, and nobody on the phorumz telling you that you're going to blow yourself up from a leak.  That's where it ends.  Fuel is bulky, expensive, and increasingly hard to find; heat output is low; water vapor production high.

It's a good tradeoff for smaller boats like mine (26') where space is at a premium and the stove is only used occasionally.  I don't have a propane locker, and the costs and space required to add one combined with the costs of a propane tank, regulator, and fittings would be considerable.

Some people have switched to self-contained Butane tabletop stoves -- the ones first popularized in Korea.  Butane is heavier than air and so there's a hazard of gas accumulating in the bilge.  But the canisters they use are small (8oz), and butane has a lower vapor pressure which allows the canister to be in the stove housing (unlike propane), reducing the number of fittings.  The alphabet soup safety agencies (ABYC, NFPA, etc) don't consider them suitable for use on boats but I am not sure that the balance of harms tilts that badly against them.  I just got one of these for use on picnics and so on but don't plan to bring it aboard.

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42 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

Are you saying that you liberated it

 

D

We used to fill 50 barrel tanks of the stuff for keeping flowline equipment from freezing up. Once the pump sucked 'dry' there was always 5 or 10 gallons in the bottom that had to be drained and disposed of. I 'disposed' of some of the waste methanol in my boat stove. I don't imagine that would be the practice now, with all the hazmat regulations,  but it was OK then. Industrial methanol in quantity should be handled carefully - toxic vapour and skin contact to be avoided. Not a problem with the small quantity in an Origo canister, provided you fill carefully it in open air. Pay attention to the warnings on the Methyl Hydrate container label (which is much the same as for de-natured alcohol or ethanol).

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1 hour ago, Jim in Halifax said:

We used to fill 50 barrel tanks of the stuff for keeping flowline equipment from freezing up. Once the pump sucked 'dry' there was always 5 or 10 gallons in the bottom that had to be drained and disposed of. I 'disposed' of some of the waste methanol in my boat stove. I don't imagine that would be the practice now, with all the hazmat regulations,  but it was OK then. Industrial methanol in quantity should be handled carefully - toxic vapour and skin contact to be avoided. Not a problem with the small quantity in an Origo canister, provided you fill carefully it in open air. Pay attention to the warnings on the Methyl Hydrate container label (which is much the same as for de-natured alcohol or ethanol).

Good answer

I used to liberate pens from Thomson publications

D

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All good info. Thanks. I've been using a cheap camp stove that screws into a disposable bottle of propane. How many bottles have I taken to the dump? A whole fucking lot of them over my lifetime even though my last boat had a real propane bottle and 2 burner stove. Not sure what to do on the current boat as it's tiny and I sometimes use the stove to bring the temp inside up a bit when I'm freezing. Really not so hot on the disposable thing.  

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10 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Curious what brand of alcohol are Canadians burning in their stoves?  

I burn methyl hydrate exclusively in the origo

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5 minutes ago, Russell Brown said:

All good info. Thanks. I've been using a cheap camp stove that screws into a disposable bottle of propane. How many bottles have I taken to the dump? A whole fucking lot of them over my lifetime even though my last boat had a real propane bottle and 2 burner stove. Not sure what to do on the current boat as it's tiny and I sometimes use the stove to bring the temp inside up a bit when I'm freezing. Really not so hot on the disposable thing.  

Russel, I believe you can refill those small propane canisters yourself (from a 5 gallon) with one of these adaptors:

https://www.amazon.com/Simply-Silver-Propane-Cylinder-Unbranded/dp/B01JWCIX2S/ref=asc_df_B01JWCIX2S/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309849959516&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15251943881390553661&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033457&hvtargid=pla-662080418056&psc=1

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I think that is a good fear. I’ve had so many of those green bottles leak. 

I’ve used Origo and Cookmate stoves a lot and both worked well for me. They are really simple and reliable.  They are a little slower, but not that much slower. 

We only have propane on our boat now because we wanted a real oven (I wasn’t convinced on how the Origo oven worked). 

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I looked into refilling canisters for a while since we use them for our boat grill and our camp stove. I watched some youtube videos, even bought an adapter. Turns out, it can be dangerous to fill them that way and per the labels it is illegal to transport them if you have refilled them. So... I never tried it. 

I did find and bought one of these kits https://flameking.com/product/refillable-1-2/  Tank has a vent so you can't over pressurize it. I haven't used it yet, due to not doing much this past year, but I feel a lot better about this option. 

Oh, and they make little screw on caps to prevent the tanks from leaking. I have a set of those too.

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Origo made a "real oven", too... the Origo 6000. Obviously no longer in production. Comes up on eBay every so often, US$1,000 or so. The oven itself works off a canister system like the stove does.

I've been keeping an eye out for one locally (shipping one has got to be a PITA), but I'm not keeping my hopes up. I might have to learn to bake my bread in a dutch oven instead.

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37 minutes ago, Russell Brown said:

All good info. Thanks. I've been using a cheap camp stove that screws into a disposable bottle of propane. How many bottles have I taken to the dump? A whole fucking lot of them over my lifetime even though my last boat had a real propane bottle and 2 burner stove. Not sure what to do on the current boat as it's tiny and I sometimes use the stove to bring the temp inside up a bit when I'm freezing. Really not so hot on the disposable thing.  

One option is a smaller propane tank. The standard is about 5 gal, but you can buy 2 1/2 or 1 gal versions. The pre-made hose and fittings to attach the tank to the one pound bottle fitting on the camp stove is inexpensive. 

In regards to the original question, I had the cookmate two burner model and it worked fine. Mine did not rust, but I agree the edges were sharp and could have used some better finishing.

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32 minutes ago, The Lucky One said:

Origo made a "real oven", too... the Origo 6000.

We looked into this, but from our research it didn’t have a thermostat.  It was just another alcohol burner (just like their stoves) mounted in a metal box. 

I’m sure one can figure out how to live with it, but we like baking and wanted something closer to the oven experience that we’d have at home. That is a lot easier to get in propane. 

To @steele’s point we use a small LP tank. It lives on the stern pulpit of our boat and would probably look out of place on Russell’s boat. 

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3 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

All good info. Thanks. I've been using a cheap camp stove that screws into a disposable bottle of propane. How many bottles have I taken to the dump? A whole fucking lot of them over my lifetime even though my last boat had a real propane bottle and 2 burner stove. Not sure what to do on the current boat as it's tiny and I sometimes use the stove to bring the temp inside up a bit when I'm freezing. Really not so hot on the disposable thing.  

if you pull the valve cores on the fill and relief valves (same tool as for car tire valve cores — a couple bucks at any parts store) after they're *totally* empty, you can recycle them as ferrous scrap. it always lets out a little bit of propane, so do it outside away from flames & nosy neighbors.

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The problem with gas I that it is heavier than air. So even if you are using your cooker only a few times a year, gas accumulates in the bilge and there it sits. And sits... and sits... and sits... waiting... 

I don’t mind if alcohol takes a little longer to cook my coffee. I am also indifferent about pressurised vs. non/pressurised. I just want a quality alcohol cooker and I don’t want to pay a kidney for it. 
 

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5 hours ago, The Lucky One said:

Origo made a "real oven", too... the Origo 6000. Obviously no longer in production. Comes up on eBay every so often, US$1,000 or so. The oven itself works off a canister system like the stove does.

I have the Origo 6000 and love it.  If you can find one and are looking for an alcohol oven/stove combo, I highly recommend it.  While the oven doesn't have a thermostat as Alex points out, it has a temp gauge and it's not  hard to control the temp.  The oven takes a while to heat up, but not a problem as long as you plan in advance.  The stove top boils water quickly and not noticeably slower than the propane units on friends boats. The gimbal works well to keep the oven and stove top stable.  We reheated a large somewhat thawed large lasagna in about 45 minutes recently on an overnight race and the crew was happy to have a good hot meal.

The Origo 6000 replaced an old original CNG stove.  It was great getting rid of the old oven, heavy tank and associated plumbing. 

Origo 6000.jpg

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13 hours ago, dylan winter said:

For what it worth

 

Small boat test

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for reposting! I found this video in an older thread but the link to youtube didn't work.

 

 

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1 hour ago, mvk512 said:

The Origo 6000 replaced an old original CNG stove.  It was great getting rid of the old oven, heavy tank and associated plumbing. 

Origo 6000.jpg

I recognize an Express 37 galley!  The CNG system is one of the only things that I disagreed with on our boat, and it might have actually made sense in 1985. 

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17 minutes ago, Alex W said:

I recognize an Express 37 galley!  The CNG system is one of the only things that I disagreed with on our boat, and it might have actually made sense in 1985. 

Yes, at one time she was. Now more like an Express 38.5 with several cool mods designed/engineered by Carl Schumacher prior to his passing and implemented by the original owner back around 2000.  Unfortunately, no class racing for me and several E37's just moved into the harbor racing one design.  If I had only known that would happen three years ago...

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11 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

All good info. Thanks. I've been using a cheap camp stove that screws into a disposable bottle of propane. How many bottles have I taken to the dump? A whole fucking lot of them over my lifetime even though my last boat had a real propane bottle and 2 burner stove. Not sure what to do on the current boat as it's tiny and I sometimes use the stove to bring the temp inside up a bit when I'm freezing. Really not so hot on the disposable thing.  

Russell,

I have one of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083ZMKZSX

They are better in every way than the propane camp stoves except that they won't work as well in freezing temperatures.  (Lighter, uses less space when in use since the gas bottle sits inside the stove enclosure, sits lower and therefore less tippy than many propane stoves, piezo igniter that works reliably, not prone to regulator freezeup, no need to unscrew bottle and store separately)

The butane canisters have thinner walls like an aerosol can and can be recycled when empty with no special precautions or procedures.

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Here’s one that looks affordable. But: After seeing Dylan’s video I am not so sure about that “preheating the burner by burning liquid alcohol” thing. I can’t imagine doing that even in a moderate swell... 

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4 hours ago, 2airishuman said:

Russell,

I have one of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083ZMKZSX

They are better in every way than the propane camp stoves except that they won't work as well in freezing temperatures.  (Lighter, uses less space when in use since the gas bottle sits inside the stove enclosure, sits lower and therefore less tippy than many propane stoves, piezo igniter that works reliably, not prone to regulator freezeup, no need to unscrew bottle and store separately)

The butane canisters have thinner walls like an aerosol can and can be recycled when empty with no special precautions or procedures.

I admit these things look tempting and everything you said is true. Plus, they are cheap as dirt. 
Still, it’s gas, so no thanks. 


(Let me make that clear: if I had an ocean going 40 footer and would plan to live in it for a couple of weeks or months, I would chose gas. In my current boat, I’ll use the cooker maybe five or ten times a year, so all the plumbing, ventilation, gas sniffer, annual safety inspections etc... are just not worth it. And even for that cute little Korean barbecue flattie, I’d at least would want a bilge sniffer.) 

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On 5/8/2021 at 1:10 PM, Russell Brown said:

Why alcohol? Some friends of mine are going that way and I'm interested, but past experiences weren't so good. What's the buzz?

Snap this one up. You wont be disappointed.

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/burnie/caravan-campervan-accessories/maxie-methylated-stove/1273142960

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On 5/7/2021 at 4:01 PM, 10thTonner said:

(And no, I am not interested in a alcohol vs. CNG vs. propane vs. electric vs. woodstove vs. micro atomic reactor thread. Just alcohol cookers, preferably original clones. Thank you!) 

That's a pity.  The nuclear reactor cooker advocates would have provided lots of entertainment, as well as practical help for those sailing the Irish Sea, into which the Brits poured lots of plutonium. Get your fuel through a seacock, and make your food glow.

But now we will never know how to do it.

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While spending a few days on the boat with the wife recently we (ok I) ran out of propane for the stove. No morning coffee = panic time.  We have an Origo 5100 Heat Pal we use once in a while as a cabin heater; we cooked on it for two days no problem.  I was amazed how well it worked. Too bad I have to get the fuel from out of state, no dn  alcohol sold in Fornia.

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12 minutes ago, rwaterman said:

While spending a few days on the boat with the wife recently we (ok I) ran out of propane for the stove. No morning coffee = panic time.  We have an Origo 5100 Heat Pal we use once in a while as a cabin heater; we cooked on it for two days no problem.  I was amazed how well it worked. Too bad I have to get the fuel from out of state, no dn  alcohol sold in Fornia.

Pretty sure I saw some at West Marine the other day.

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11 minutes ago, rwaterman said:

While spending a few days on the boat with the wife recently we (ok I) ran out of propane for the stove. No morning coffee = panic time.  We have an Origo 5100 Heat Pal we use once in a while as a cabin heater; we cooked on it for two days no problem.  I was amazed how well it worked. Too bad I have to get the fuel from out of state, no dn  alcohol sold in Fornia.

You can also use other similar fuels. HEET works. Do a search for alcohol backpacking stove fuels. The denatured alcohol issue in CA doesn't only affect boaters but also ultralight backpackers. There are a lot of articles and even youtube videos comparing similar fuels that are available. 

I have also heard that labeling makes a big difference. If it is labeled denatured alcohol, then it's out, but if it is labeled stove fuel or the like, then it's allowed. We've had this discussion on our boat specific facebook group and manufacturer forum since Origo's were standard equipment on our boats. Apparently West Marine and the like will get shipments of the alcohol stove fuel in CA, but it sells out quickly. 

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10 minutes ago, rwaterman said:

While spending a few days on the boat with the wife recently we (ok I) ran out of propane for the stove. No morning coffee = panic time.  We have an Origo 5100 Heat Pal we use once in a while as a cabin heater; we cooked on it for two days no problem.  I was amazed how well it worked. Too bad I have to get the fuel from out of state, no dn  alcohol sold in Fornia.

Kind of a pitty about that. You have to mix it with poison (other solvents) so that you can't drink it, so then they don't want it in CA. In Canada they allow denaturing with Bitrex (used to make things like detergent and antifreeze undrinkable), which is less toxic, but the US does not approve Bitrex as a denaturant (there is a list). Maybe this will change. This also makes a fuel that burns with no odor.

You can also use a stove top as a vented heater like this:

Good Old Boat article

Testing the idea on my boat. Heats the cabin on the coldest days, no humidity or smell, and even cooks slowly at the same time

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7 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

That's a pity.  The nuclear reactor cooker advocates would have provided lots of entertainment, as well as practical help for those sailing the Irish Sea, into which the Brits poured lots of plutonium. Get your fuel through a seacock, and make your food glow.

But now we will never know how to do it.

Pocket nukes were widely considered (and occasionally deployed) BITD for utilitarian power and heat sources. Turns out, casually scattering radioisotopes in unsecured locations w/out stringent lifecycle chain-of-custody measures is, uh, asking for trouble. For example: in Soviet Georgia, Strontium-90 (plus probably something like a Peltier junction) cannisters were used for so pedestrian a task as powering radio relays for hydroelectric monitoring. 

Today, that would be a 9" solar panel and an SLA battery. 

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49 minutes ago, Diarmuid said:

Pocket nukes were widely considered (and occasionally deployed) BITD for utilitarian power and heat sources.

These things were common in lighthouses aswell. Soviets wanted easy way to reduce manpower needed for servicing lighthouses, what would be better way than placing radioactive battery in decaying lighthouse.

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15 hours ago, Slick470 said:

https://www.ebay.com/p/2268103126 The price keeps going up on this one. I meant to post it up yesterday but life got in the way, was $100 and change then. 

Fife days left and @ 440 bucks already. Fuck me ragged! 
 

(Edit: I need something in the EU anyway or it would get even more complicated than it already is.) 

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Love my Origo!

I've used my JetBoil before that and while the JB heats up quick, it's a toy compared to a gimbaled Origo, plus you can put real pots and pans along with my percolator for awesome coffee aboard. So simple.

 

 

th.jpg

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1 hour ago, Irrational 14 said:

Love my Origo!

I've used my JetBoil before that and while the JB heats up quick, it's a toy compared to a gimbaled Origo, plus you can put real pots and pans along with my percolator for awesome coffee aboard. So simple.

 

 

th.jpg

mmmm, coffee.

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On 5/8/2021 at 10:32 AM, chester said:

I burn methyl hydrate exclusively in the origo

^^^^^^ that.  It's cheap at any hardware store, and it works a treat. Plus you can use it to clean resin residue off the deck, from the buds that trees shed in the spring. Grrr

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How are the fumes?  I tried Klean Strip....then I learned about Klean Strip Green.  Big difference.  But you can't seem to get it in Canada.

I'm going to try shellac reducer later this week.  Seems to have a better ethanol/poison ratio.

Shellac reducer SDS.jpg

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I didn’t know that denat alcohol is hard to get in some places. In Germany, France, Italy, you can get it anywhere. My grandmother cleaned her windows with it. I still remember the smell. 

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On 5/9/2021 at 7:55 AM, Raz'r said:

Pretty sure I saw some at West Marine the other day.

I think it can still be sold as stove fuel, but you won't find it in the paint section any more. 'Cause planet, you know... 

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3 minutes ago, TJSoCal said:

I think it can still be sold as stove fuel, but you won't find it in the paint section any more. 'Cause planet, you know... 

$11.99 for 4 litres at the local Canadian Tire in the paint section. 'Cause True North Strong and Free and all that.

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1 hour ago, TJSoCal said:

I think it can still be sold as stove fuel, but you won't find it in the paint section any more. 'Cause planet, you know... 

Yup. You can get it by the gallon at WM in CA (~$20 or so, so it's pricy) - or look at sporting goods stores for "fuel."  Of course, in calif you can sell as much hand sanitizer as you want. Billions of little jars of it. And I can buy vodka (but not 151 or everclear). And 15% of the gas that goes in the cars is .... Oh... wait... same stuff. Sometimes the AQMD is just unscientifically stupid. Can't buy real turpentine any more in CA. Wonder if they'll ban pine trees.... I've often thought about road trips to Ariz for stuff from paint stores......

Had a two burner Origo on the last boat. Really did like it. Find one used, pour in some ethanol, and make coffee. Those that say they take too long haven't used one. No faffing about, just turn the knob, light it, cook. Fill it when it no longer makes flames. Flames easy to see. Can't leak liquid alcohol because it's all absorbed in the "land mines." Nothing at all wrong with it, 'cept they don't make em anymore. 

(New boat is propane, dunno if I like it yet. def don't like all the parts, solenoid, tank, outside storage, etc.....)

 

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On 5/9/2021 at 7:42 AM, rwaterman said:

While spending a few days on the boat with the wife recently we (ok I) ran out of propane for the stove. No morning coffee = panic time.  We have an Origo 5100 Heat Pal we use once in a while as a cabin heater; we cooked on it for two days no problem.  I was amazed how well it worked. Too bad I have to get the fuel from out of state, no dn  alcohol sold in Fornia.

You can still get denatured “stove fuel” alcohol at West Marine.  Now, it’s $22/gallon instead of $12/gallon for the regular stuff!  Buy it up before Gavin catches on!  

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1 hour ago, gptyk said:

Yup. You can get it by the gallon at WM in CA (~$20 or so, so it's pricy) - or look at sporting goods stores for "fuel."  Of course, in calif you can sell as much hand sanitizer as you want. Billions of little jars of it. And I can buy vodka (but not 151 or everclear). And 15% of the gas that goes in the cars is .... Oh... wait... same stuff. Sometimes the AQMD is just unscientifically stupid.

The rationale is that fuel (especially gas that goes in the cars) is burned, producing relatively harmless products of combustion compared to the ethanol itself which they don't like because it's photochemically reactive (forms smog).  And it's about public health more than green eco tree-hugging goodness.

As for hand sanitizer, well, don't give them any ideas.

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12 hours ago, TJSoCal said:

I think it can still be sold as stove fuel, but you won't find it in the paint section any more. 'Cause planet, you know... 

Ace Hardware is still stocking DeNat in the paint section in Maryland.

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

Ace Hardware is still stocking DeNat in the paint section in Maryland.

Yeah, I think that's true in most of the free states. Just not California because we're going to save the planet by ourselves...

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

Ace Hardware is still stocking DeNat in the paint section in Maryland.

same with HD and Lowes. I don't think we'll run out of it anytime soon out East. Gasoline though at the moment... 

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Anyway. Here’s the next problem: the old stove looks like this: 

Nice, but all the gas plumbing is long gone. The PO said he didn’t use the stove for 20 years. I don’t think any of the origos or clones would fit in there.
 

Maybe I’ll just cut two holes were the burners are now and put these little cans  into them that are normally used for chafing dishes and fondues... 

D83485C4-4C25-4F14-82D4-637D89923F6D.jpeg

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You may find that the existing setup works fine if you clean everything up and grease the valves. 

There are similar new setups available, see for example:

https://www.bonanza.com/listings/Boat-RV-Gas-Burner-Stove-Hob-Sink-Combo-with-Glass-Top-20-7-16-7-5-9-GR-600L/751436543

 

Full-size item image

 

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1 minute ago, 10thTonner said:

Anyway. Here’s the next problem: the old stove looks like this: 

Nice, but all the gas plumbing is long gone. The PO said he didn’t use the stove for 20 years. I don’t think any of the origos or clones would fit in there.
 

Maybe I’ll just cut two holes were the burners are now and put these little cans  into them that are normally used for chafing dishes and fondues... 

D83485C4-4C25-4F14-82D4-637D89923F6D.jpeg

Sterno cooking fuel does work fine -- tho it's even slower than non-press alcohol. Not great energy density. But safe and easy to use.

Personally, I'd probably choose one of the small butane cannister units. There really isn't enuf gas in one to pool in the bilges and explode your boat. Even Yachting Monthly needed complete simultaneous release of two 1# propane bottles to get a decent explosion on their poor test boat:

The risk with early models of the mini butane stoves was the cannisters were poorly secured & could blow off the fittings, setting your curtains ablaze. They seem to have fixed that issue with a retaining collar.

Chef Master Butane Fuel Refill 8 oz. Canister - 12/Case Main Image 4

We are glad we snagged an Origo -- but unless somebody starts making non-press alcohol stoves again, sailors may need to look toward gas.

 

 

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@10thTonner Well, that's a very specific or custom looking setup. You have 2 options- re-plumb it with new parts or do some minor surgery and integrate a modern solution.

I think the solution involving the least effort is to re-plumb the existing system with new hose. Fit an electric shut off solenoid near the galley range and add a sniffer if one wasn't already fitted.  When I refreshed my LPG system, I learned that there are two kinds of solenoids- low pressure and high pressure.

  • The low pressure solenoid goes *after* the normal LPG regulator. This is useless if the regulator fails and vents all the propane from the tank (but it seems to be the ABYC approved, most common type fitted!)
  • The high pressure solenoid goes between the manual tank valve and the LPG regulator. If the regulator fails, the solenoid is shut off, stopping the venting. If the solenoid fails, you simply shut the LPG appliance off and then go to the propane locker and shut the manual tank valve. To me, this make more sense. @toddster pointed this out to me, actually.

The high and low pressure solenoids are physically identical in appearance and consume the same amount of power. It's just the guts that are different, so there's no worry about space or power constraints.

As long as the appliance valves and orifices are clean, that galley range in your photos should work fine.

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I went with the high pressure solenoid so I could ditch the shitty pot metal regulator on the bbq. Works great.

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

@10thTonner Well, that's a very specific or custom looking setup. You have 2 options- re-plumb it with new parts or do some minor surgery and integrate a modern solution.

I think the solution involving the least effort is to re-plumb the existing system with new hose. Fit an electric shut off solenoid near the galley range and add a sniffer if one wasn't already fitted.  When I refreshed my LPG system, I learned that there are two kinds of solenoids- low pressure and high pressure.

  • The low pressure solenoid goes *after* the normal LPG regulator. This is useless if the regulator fails and vents all the propane from the tank (but it seems to be the ABYC approved, most common type fitted!)
  • The high pressure solenoid goes between the manual tank valve and the LPG regulator. If the regulator fails, the solenoid is shut off, stopping the venting. If the solenoid fails, you simply shut the LPG appliance off and then go to the propane locker and shut the manual tank valve. To me, this make more sense. @toddster pointed this out to me, actually.

The high and low pressure solenoids are physically identical in appearance and consume the same amount of power. It's just the guts that are different, so there's no worry about space or power constraints.

As long as the appliance valves and orifices are clean, that galley range in your photos should work fine.

 

This is a system from 1990. Apart from what you see, there is no plumbing left except for a porouse rubber hose that goes into a non-ventilated cockpit locker were it was cut with a Wichard folding knife in about 2002. Everything else is gone and I am happy that it is. The PO used the boat for dayracing - he said he never used the cooker in 20 years.

Ok, so now I am planning to cook abut 5 percolators full of coffe per year. Even if we dont take into account the initial cost of re-plumbing by a profesional to EU safety standards, there are the biannual fees for the mandatory safety inspections. These alone will cost me about 100€. So that computes to running costs of 10 (TEN!) Euros per cup of coffe - without coffee beans, or milk, or water, or... gas ! ! !

You wouldnt believe it but I think I might do it.  :blink:  

 

 

 

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We keep one of these on board in case our entire propane system is unusable for some reason. For five perks of coffee it will do just fine, just not underway.

stove-propane-base-family-camp-stove.jpg

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3 minutes ago, 10thTonner said:

Well, there's "DANGER" written on it for a reason, innit? ;)

I learned years ago to never huff propane.

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Store it outside, even could make coffee outside. No more dangerous than a magma grill, as long as any leaks don't go into the boat. 

For that little of use, the cheapie butane stove would be my choice. Same thing, store the butane where it won't go into the bilge if/when it leaks. 

 

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4 minutes ago, gptyk said:

Store it outside, even could make coffee outside. No more dangerous than a magma grill, as long as any leaks don't go into the boat. 

For that little of use, the cheapie butane stove would be my choice. Same thing, store the butane where it won't go into the bilge if/when it leaks. 

 

We already have cans of propane on board for the BBQ and gas system backup, we only have to store the base and burner. Since we have the room, we throw in a small parabolic heater as well, runs off the green cans and handy for heat in the cockpit. Don't need yet another fuel.

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50 minutes ago, 10thTonner said:

These look good, in principle. "Made in Italy", but cannot be found outside Australia... 

Yes, they do look interesting. I may buy one as a backup stove.

Normally I have little time for alcohol stoves due to the high fuel cost and low thermal output but your use-case is about perfect for one of them really. Especially with the expensive/onerous inspection rules for LPG.

FKT

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On 5/12/2021 at 1:39 AM, 10thTonner said:

Huh? C2H5OH is made out of plants and it burns to nothing but CO2 and H2O.  It can’t get more neutral than that. 

The problem is the denaturants added to render it non-drinkable.  Some are pretty toxic, others less so.

If they add isopropyl or one of the approved items for disinfectants, it's fine in CA. But the solvent companies just have not made the transition yet. Hopefully they will soon. In other states, there is a long federal list of accepted denaturants. Some of them seem a little weird, until you realize that a manufacturer is using ethanol to make something else (spray paint perhaps), so by adding some of the other ingredients ahead, he avoids taxes with no wasted denaturant expense. Smart.

 

Some smart denaturants are not accepted yet. Bitrex is one that will gain acceptance in 50 states.

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I take that back.

CARB seems to be looking at denatured alcohol as a solvent and hence as a VOC. The fact that we are using it as a fuel does not enter in. Kinna stupid, but this is related to smog reactivity, not toxicity.  I am told that ethanol stove fuel can still be ordered through a few companies. (Regal Flame, Smart Fuel, others)

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2020-12/cp_all_regs_5-2019.pdf

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On 5/15/2021 at 7:52 PM, thinwater said:

The problem is the denaturants added to render it non-drinkable.  Some are pretty toxic, others less so.

If they add isopropyl or one of the approved items for disinfectants, it's fine in CA. But the solvent companies just have not made the transition yet. Hopefully they will soon. In other states, there is a long federal list of accepted denaturants. Some of them seem a little weird, until you realize that a manufacturer is using ethanol to make something else (spray paint perhaps), so by adding some of the other ingredients ahead, he avoids taxes with no wasted denaturant expense. Smart.

 

Some smart denaturants are not accepted yet. Bitrex is one that will gain acceptance in 50 states.

Ah ok, thanks! Now it makes a little more sense. (In the olde days they used ox bile didn't they?) 

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Ok, I am more and more leaning towards an alcohol conversion of the existing setup, just because it looks so nice. I like to keep things original (or at least keep the original look ^_^).

I found this on the web. Trangia cookers are kind of a cult among the outdoor and survivalist crowd. I would have to cut two holes of about 7cm diameter into the base plate and modidfy the grid that holds the pots somewhat, but it seems doable. One thing I am concerned about is the hight of the flame, especially in the warming-up phase. The (curved) cabin roof is at one point only about 30cm above one of the burners. Well, at 15 Euros I think I'll just buy one and try it. Can one put a pot onto these cookers directly after igniting them? That would help. And how far above the cooker must the pot be set?

Here is another one. Originally made for alcohol paste and home fondue sets, it can be converted to liquid alcohol. I know these things from from my own fondueset from the 1970's. It works very well there, at least o a stable table top.  

 

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I wouldn't recommend using a Trangia-type burner aboard a small boat because they use liquid alcohol that can spill and spread fire.  In contrast the Origo "land mine" burners are filled with an absorbent material and cannot spill unless overfilled.

I think your best bet for an occasional-usage conversion would be to use Sterno.  It's denatured alcohol with a gelling agent added, so the performance is similar to the trangia-type and beer-can burners.

30 cm is really not enough clearance for anything except using an electric teakettle at the dock.

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31 minutes ago, 2airishuman said:

I wouldn't recommend using a Trangia-type burner aboard a small boat because they use liquid alcohol that can spill and spread fire.  In contrast the Origo "land mine" burners are filled with an absorbent material and cannot spill unless overfilled.

I think your best bet for an occasional-usage conversion would be to use Sterno.  It's denatured alcohol with a gelling agent added, so the performance is similar to the trangia-type and beer-can burners.

30 cm is really not enough clearance for anything except using an electric teakettle at the dock.

Well it is not excatly 30cm straight upward but... well you know boats. No right angle anwhere. At least the original gas burner did not set it on fire, or even darkened he wood, but maybe they just used the other one. The whole rig is not gimballed, so at-anchor in a quiet inshore lake is the maximum of heel it will see anyway.  

Energy density of alcohol gel is still less than liquid alcohol, no?

Can you burn alcohol gel in a Trangia?

When I was a kid in the 1970s, every family had a fondue set, and every burner in these sets had some absorbent material in it that kept the alcohol from spilling. Nowadays, all of these burners are gel-only. I don't know why. Was there asbestos in the absorbent?

The good thing about the Stöckli is that it can easily be converted to liquid alcohol by adding a modern absorbent insert. It is way smaller than he Origo landmines but since it cannot be sealed between usages thats a feature rather than a bug.

Here is another fondue-style burner with absorbent for liquid lcohol. I just cannot find a vendor within the EU.

 

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58 minutes ago, 10thTonner said:

Energy density of alcohol gel is still less than liquid alcohol, no?

It's very close.  The gel is formed by the addition of roughly 1% calcium acetate, which doesn't materially change the energy density because it gives off heat when the alcohol is burned.

I think in terms of BTU per pound with cooking fuels.  With denatured alcohol you should get 12,500 BTU/#.  I have 12,000 BTU/# in my notes for Sterno.  But there will be variations from one formulation to the next depending on water content, denaturants used, and any other contaminants.

For comparison, any of the liquid alkane fuels (propane, naptha/coleman fuel, butane, isobutane) are around 20,000 BTU/#.  CNG is 25,000 BTU/#.

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On 5/12/2021 at 8:19 AM, 10thTonner said:

Anyway. Here’s the next problem: the old stove looks like this:

Origo and Cookmate made drop-in stoves that fit a rectangular hole in a counter.  You’d have to modify your counter a little bit (I’m guessing the dimensions aren’t the same), but not much.  A little bit of counter laminate on top and it would be ready to go. 
 

I think they came in one and two burner versions. My Pearson 28-2 had the 2 burner as the stock stove. 

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The absorbent is tightly packed fiberglass, with a layer of mineral wool under the burner. A stainless grid retains it. No asbestos.

If you stuffed a Trangia with absorbent it would probably burn somewhat more slowly, but I'm not sure how much.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Update. I would hate to ruin the sleek looks of the original setup with a drop-in stove, and I will definitely not install gas. The liquid alcohol in the Trangia doesn’t frighten me too much, but IDK if it is worth the hassle. (Plus, most of the raving reviews on the Trangia are YouTube videos by some survivalist prepper types and we all know that these people are fucking nuts.) 

So here is the plan: next winter, cut two holes into the SS plate where the original burners were, and somehow attach two cups underneath to accommodate these disposable gel burners. 
In a nonscientific test (see last photo), a full six cup Bialetti took 14:40 minutes on these, and 09:20 on my CNG stove at home. Not too bad. 

1F93DD8B-A03C-443A-92ED-D7DE9885DFFF.jpeg

CC87D097-E2FC-49FC-9BDD-07704A4CF19A.jpeg

CADAAB62-644C-48BC-8ECD-82724F7DE677.jpeg

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MSR Whisperlite? Runs on white gas so no disposal of propane / butane cannisters. 4L / 1 gal of fuel lasts forever and is cheaper by far than little cannisters. No bigger a risk than propane. Both vapours go boom. The nice thing about a leaking white gas stove is you might see a liquid trail of gas and it probably evaporates faster than propane. Just put it out in the cockpit when you are done cooking. It doesn't mind the rain.

MSR Whisperlite International also runs on kerosene, regular unleaded gas and white gas if are worried about white gas pooling in your bilges. Runs cooler than white gas if used with kerosene.

You can field strip and clean one with a swiss army knife that has a small screwdriver.  

image.png.60fc8ac45fc1d53da6df9a0f57228884.png

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32 minutes ago, Zonker said:

MSR Whisperlite? Runs on white gas so no disposal of propane / butane cannisters. 4L / 1 gal of fuel lasts forever and is cheaper by far than little cannisters. No bigger a risk than propane. Both vapours go boom. The nice thing about a leaking white gas stove is you might see a liquid trail of gas and it probably evaporates faster than propane. Just put it out in the cockpit when you are done cooking. It doesn't mind the rain.

MSR Whisperlite International also runs on kerosene, regular unleaded gas and white gas if are worried about white gas pooling in your bilges. Runs cooler than white gas if used with kerosene.

You can field strip and clean one with a swiss army knife that has a small screwdriver.  

image.png.60fc8ac45fc1d53da6df9a0f57228884.png

You're bringing back memories now, Zonker. Somewhere I have an old MSR G/K model tucked away from my bushwalking & hunting days. The thing must be 40 years old by now.

Wonder where it is...

FKT

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Oh the X G/K. Fond memories of it too. Had 2 settings:  "Afterburner" or "Space Shuttle Main Engine".  Not so good at simmering. The Whisperlite can actually simmer rice.

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Use my G/K every summer.  All winter long it sits patiently next to its older, forgotten, step sisters; Svea and Primus 8R.   Had a laugh at your 2 power levels, I concur.   To simmer find a flat rock to put on the burner and your pot on top of that.

Diarmuid's, May 12 post of Yachting Monthly's exploding boat made me think of the famous exploding whale.  I'd have been a little further back. 

FWIW, I like my Origo stove

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