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Who know more about the Aeolos P30?


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I found a lot of stuff in Facebook about the new Aeolos P30, but nothing here? Is something wrong with this boat? It looks exciting, I thought it´s a real anarchy project. I want to buy a fast boat for the next season in Europe. Has someone seen the production? 

181517548_234274691823284_6867625734298123417_n.jpg

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6 hours ago, Jens Martin said:

I found a lot of stuff in Facebook about the new Aeolos P30, but nothing here? Is something wrong with this boat? It looks exciting, I thought it´s a real anarchy project. I want to buy a fast boat for the next season in Europe. Has someone seen the production? 

 

Here you go: what is it? - Sport Boat Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

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On 5/9/2021 at 12:55 AM, Jens Martin said:

I found a lot of stuff in Facebook about the new Aeolos P30, but nothing here? Is something wrong with this boat? It looks exciting, I thought it´s a real anarchy project. I want to buy a fast boat for the next season in Europe. Has someone seen the production?

Hello Jens, read this http://no-frills-sailing.com/aeolos-p30-hans-genthe-raceboat/ , I can offer a Zoom-video tour through the produciton.

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3 hours ago, bstrdsonofbtl said:

Twin rudders an option then?

Yep, allegedly you swap between both options in only a few minutes, although I don't know how that works with ratings certificates, we could ask the boss about that, @Hans Genthe

He said somewhere that the twin rudders are better for downwind flying, but the single foil is better for upwind and 'round the cans racing, which makes sense.

15 hours ago, pironiero said:

also, is it just me or belly shape is too displacement like?

I don't think so, it's optimum heel is like 30 degrees or something crazy, and the CFD shows that there's like no wetted surface area at all. Just a lot of rocker so adjusting fore and aft weight makes a lot of difference by the looks of it. 

Speed

 

My only issue with the design is that it only has an outboard in a well, and while I'd very happily do a Sydney Hobart in the boat, I'm not doing that without a diesel that I can trust to get me out of a gale. I've sailed on similar, albeit slightly less modern boats with outboards like that, and in anything more than 20 knots of wind you're not going forward. Not fun when the rocks are to leeward...

 

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2 hours ago, Black Jack said:

Is this guy or his shills ever going to buy an ad for this unattractive boat.

*not a shill, just a fan... Its nice to see someone do something different, rather than just the same old same old racer cruiser

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On 10/30/2021 at 9:42 PM, Fintho said:

*not a shill, just a fan... Its nice to see someone do something different, rather than just the same old same old racer cruiser

So, what's different? It's a high wetted surface, canoe body boat. Oh, you mean the foredeck meant for a tightrope walker and a cabintop straight out of a sci-fi movie? (and likely no sitting headroom below, well, maybe for little people.

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On 10/30/2021 at 5:08 PM, Fintho said:

the twin rudders are better for downwind flying, but the single foil is better for upwind and 'round the cans racing, which makes sense.

idks, but I would have thought the opposite. upwind only a single (small) foil sticking in. Downwind the wetted surface of a single foil < two foils.

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On 11/6/2021 at 9:01 AM, FlorianS said:

Follow #Aeolos on FB, Insta etc. The 1st boat is nearly ready to sail, the production this weeks is around 4 - 6 boats

https://www.aeoloscomposites.com/yachts

Congratulations on your first post.

On 10/30/2021 at 7:03 PM, Black Jack said:

Is this guy or his shills ever going to buy an ad for this unattractive boat.

This boat has more pimps that Johns. I again ask they buy an ad rather than this free run around they have been attempting to do since the beginning of this design.

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4 hours ago, floater said:

idks, but I would have thought the opposite. upwind only a single (small) foil sticking in. Downwind the wetted surface of a single foil < two foils.

I think it's more about stability with the twin rudders downwind, and they tend to be better at getting out of broaches etc right?

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11 hours ago, Black Jack said:

This boat has more pimps that Johns.

Seems to have people who want to talk about boats and design. On a sailing forum. How awful, burn all the witches.

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reading marking people

9 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Seems to have people who want to talk about boats and design. On a sailing forum. How awful, burn all the witches.

It is more guerrilla marketing from the get go. They known it and perpetrate it a few times.  you can defend it as much as you want. I like SA and would like them to be profitable. It costs them money to host your opinions and thoughts. Do you really think all this paid for from love of sailing and great sailing mind contrubtions like yourself.

 

I am certain the sponsors of this section of the forum would love to have free ad space, glowing reviews of there vessels and write ups with links to facebook. They for the most part don't. 

Dude i love porn as much as the next sailor. Watching someone attempt to blow themselves once is cool if you are into it. Watching someone repeatedly in an effort create a business blowing themselves on some one else's site without some financial support is slight disingenuous. Like getting on the back door of a bus to skip paying for a ride. It is laughingly good times when you do it once. But when you have others with connected interest join in to avoid the ticket to ride,  it is some else.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Black Jack said:

Do you really think all this paid for from love of sailing and great sailing mind contrubtions like yourself.

Yes actually. No contributors, no SA. No content, no advertising revenue.

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4 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Yes actually. No contributors, no SA. No content, no advertising revenue.

Classic self centered internet troll response. Everything on line should be free because it is easily available.  This thread is remarkably telling of the fine line that a forum role runs and the community it serves and the costs that takes to associated with a quality internet media hosting site. 

yeah, like i said it is like a bus route. we both understand that with no riders there is no route. I am little disappointed that someone with nearly 16,000 posts would think so little of the folks whose lively hood depends on the profits and loses of this site, pay the server bills, add and monitor it for content so they can keep the thing going and are very eager to make this site profitable enough to continue via sponsorship and advertising that they defend folks who themselves are in a commercial enterprise who seek to use this site without making an attempt give compensation while doing cheeky guerilla marketing posts and direct facebook links for a unattractive (to me) vessel that has yet to be tested.  

 

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On 11/9/2021 at 2:11 AM, Black Jack said:

Classic self centered internet troll response. Everything on line should be free because it is easily available.  This thread is remarkably telling of the fine line that a forum role runs and the community it serves and the costs that takes to associated with a quality internet media hosting site. 

yeah, like i said it is like a bus route. we both understand that with no riders there is no route. I am little disappointed that someone with nearly 16,000 posts would think so little of the folks whose lively hood depends on the profits and loses of this site, pay the server bills, add and monitor it for content so they can keep the thing going and are very eager to make this site profitable enough to continue via sponsorship and advertising that they defend folks who themselves are in a commercial enterprise who seek to use this site without making an attempt give compensation while doing cheeky guerilla marketing posts and direct facebook links for a unattractive (to me) vessel that has yet to be tested.  

 

I won some races and but the experience in the AEOLOS P30 design, discussed it on facebook. I started this project because clients want the boat, and were willing make a prepayment. I can´t spent anything for advertising out of this money. It´s for building the boats. I told the whole story in the first post at SA, which became deleted. After that I stopped reading SA. At the moment I have time, due to covid and quarantine, and read this comments.
I understand now, SA is no journalism, only paid content.

Finance has changed this year, AEOLOS became part of Nova Holding, and has an investor. I am happy to spend money in the magazines, which have supported me and stick to Journalism ethics and standards.

 

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On 11/8/2021 at 2:11 PM, Black Jack said:

Classic self centered internet troll response. Everything on line should be free because it is easily available.  This thread is remarkably telling of the fine line that a forum role runs and the community it serves and the costs that takes to associated with a quality internet media hosting site. 

yeah, like i said it is like a bus route. we both understand that with no riders there is no route. I am little disappointed that someone with nearly 16,000 posts would think so little of the folks whose lively hood depends on the profits and loses of this site, pay the server bills, add and monitor it for content so they can keep the thing going and are very eager to make this site profitable enough to continue via sponsorship and advertising that they defend folks who themselves are in a commercial enterprise who seek to use this site without making an attempt give compensation while doing cheeky guerilla marketing posts and direct facebook links for a unattractive (to me) vessel that has yet to be tested.  

 

You've lost me.  How is this thread any different than the threads on this forum about the Dehler 30, or the Beneteau 31.7, or the GS 44 vs. Pogo 44 thread, which you started.  Or the Beneteau First 36 thread on the SA main forum?  

I'm just not seeing the issue.  The editor doesn't seem to be concerned, nor does anyone else besides you.  Why the fuss?  

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"a fellow from Texas can tell the difference between grass roots and AstroTurf"

I'm not from Texas, so it's pretty hard for me to distinguish between a disguised ad (that should be paid for) and someone connected with a project contributing to a forum users' discussion (which is really interesting and should be encouraged).

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3 hours ago, Roleur said:

You've lost me.  How is this thread any different than the threads on this forum about the Dehler 30, or the Beneteau 31.7, or the GS 44 vs. Pogo 44 thread, which you started.  Or the Beneteau First 36 thread on the SA main forum?  

I'm just not seeing the issue.  The editor doesn't seem to be concerned, nor does anyone else besides you.  Why the fuss?  

We ask sellers of boats to buy classified ads if they hype and add links about their shitboxes on these boards. In keeping with that - the whole thread was started by the dude who was selling concepts even before he made the boat and did continued promoting it until the dude was outed. There are numerous other boat builders who pay for the privilege here to do that very thing.

If you read my comments above you will understand my thoughts as well as others who think like I do. I like this site and know real advertising pays for it.  I mentioned it because it is a little shady in the way they have hyped and guerrilla marketed the boat. The Dude could have easily worked in a small marketing budget instead of backdooring the marketing campaign and creating a false social media buzz with connected shills. When busted he backed off. Ask him why he did stopped trying to pimp his commercial enterprise on this site after we/he recognized he was monetarily fucking over this for profit sailing media enterprise we all enjoy. He could tell you what the fuss was about but instead did not offer an apology and crept away.  His shills maybe not so much. 

for the record I still think the boat is unattractive, looks uncomfortable, lacks a great deal of dock appeal and comes from a place I would never buy from let alone would likely get support in case there was a problem.

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This thread was started by someone who asked what is wrong with it and for more information.  So...  That was the builder?

Again, how is it different from the Bene First 36 thread or the UFO thread in DA?  

If you don’t like the boat, then just move along to the other million threads on this site. 

I just don’t get all the negative energy. Why go through life like that?

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21 minutes ago, Roleur said:

This thread was started by someone who asked what is wrong with it and for more information.  So...  That was the builder?

Again, how is it different from the Bene First 36 thread or the UFO thread in DA?  

If you don’t like the boat, then just move along to the other million threads on this site. 

I just don’t get all the negative energy. Why go through life like that?

Obviously you don’t know me.  i know exactly what I saw - shills and a dude pimping on a corner that he does not own. I don’t like the traffic nor do I think it is healthy for the site. If you want to buy a trick from him, feel free. 

this is SA - we all come with opinions.  Also feel free to express your opinions on the boat and builder.  You need not worry about what I expressed as a personal opinion of the vessel as it is mine and how it would not work for me.  As the dude  points out this is not a site for professional journalists peddling for a paper rag or portal. He would never entertain giving any money to a site that won’t give him something he feels he should get for free or less worthy to his genius and work.

 

 

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12 hours ago, floater said:

so, this means she floats?

No. Check the website. Boat is finished, but I am sitting on my bed, recovered from Covid 19, waiting for quarantine end. Used the time to read all the comments in the world and found this stream yesterday. Sounds a bit strange to me...

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53 minutes ago, Hans Genthe said:

waiting for quarantine end

this thing wont go away, so you better get well, get a shot and keep going with your life

 

im really interested how p30 performs

 

also, do anybody have her polars by any chance?

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5 hours ago, Black Jack said:

We ask sellers of boats to buy classified ads if they hype and add links about their shitboxes on these boards. In keeping with that - the whole thread was started by the dude who was selling concepts even before he made the boat and did continued promoting it until the dude was outed. There are numerous other boat builders who pay for the privilege here to do that very thing.

If you read my comments above you will understand my thoughts as well as others who think like I do. I like this site and know real advertising pays for it.  I mentioned it because it is a little shady in the way they have hyped and guerrilla marketed the boat. The Dude could have easily worked in a small marketing budget instead of backdooring the marketing campaign and creating a false social media buzz with connected shills. When busted he backed off. Ask him why he did stopped trying to pimp his commercial enterprise on this site after we/he recognized he was monetarily fucking over this for profit sailing media enterprise we all enjoy. He could tell you what the fuss was about but instead did not offer an apology and crept away.  His shills maybe not so much. 

for the record I still think the boat is unattractive, looks uncomfortable, lacks a great deal of dock appeal and comes from a place I would never buy from let alone would likely get support in case there was a problem.

So you're accusing people here who are interested in a new design of being shills? You're either paranoid or don't know the meaning of shill. Why don't you pop on over to the Beneteau First 36 thread and start calling people dude and shill. 

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7 hours ago, Odd Sock said:

So you're accusing people here who are interested in a new design of being shills? You're either paranoid or don't know the meaning of shill. Why don't you pop on over to the Beneteau First 36 thread and start calling people dude and shill. 

I don´t understand all this comments. I´ve paid already for content at Sailing Anarchy, it became published and was marked as my content, so pure and honest advertising. I understand, my comments as designer and builder in this forum are not welcome. You are free to contact me directly. I don´t hide hinter any pseudonym, Hans Genthe is my real name.

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not welcome? I think the problem is Anarchy is chaotic. by design perhaps. as a sailor, I think commentary from the designer, builder, and sailor can be pretty much as good as it gets. but you've got to have a thick skin. Look how Kristian won over the crowd on the First 36 thread. Can't wait until he sails that thing and reports back.

same here.

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On 1/12/2022 at 10:09 PM, Odd Sock said:

So you're accusing people here who are interested in a new design of being shills? You're either paranoid or don't know the meaning of shill. Why don't you pop on over to the Beneteau First 36 thread and start calling people dude and shill. 

Why doesn’t someone with three (3) posts total tell me how things go here. 2 in the same thread… 

Everyone has an interest. Hans now is understanding how the new game of promotion is. Nothing is free on the internet. 

For the record - I got no problems with Hans desire for success. I am interested on how this 30 goes. I do have greater concerns personally when promoters write their own news and so many others take it as factual slices of news bread. Get pissy when they are asked to pay a advertising toll. Nearly all of us know currently there are few independent sailing journalists and even fewer magazines willing to write truly editorial pieces with the fortitude to criticize what are a boats failings are. I was one of the first in following the boat on Facebook and twitter in conjunction with the contemporary rise of this thread. These are not new sources and are not prone to truth telling. They are selfie sounding boards that others find easy to vibrate into new news since new is exciting. Having worked for Facebook, Twitter and other social media models - That’s how it suppose to work. They are also seemingly free for producer and subscriber. I admire Hans for a few things, he is doing what he wants, building a boat of his own design and fearless enough to measure it soon against others.  I wish him luck in his development and speed in his boat. I am also glad he finds SA a worthy place to pay for advertising going forward since this stir up. We should all be grateful the independence of SA which rests in the content of the various anarchistic producers and not in the ownership of advertisers and portal management. 

 

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17 hours ago, Black Jack said:

Why doesn’t someone with three (3) posts total tell me how things go here. 2 in the same thread… 

Everyone has an interest. Hans now is understanding how the new game of promotion is. Nothing is free on the internet. 

For the record - I got no problems with Hans desire for success. I am interested on how this 30 goes. I do have greater concerns personally when promoters write their own news and so many others take it as factual slices of news bread. Get pissy when they are asked to pay a advertising toll. Nearly all of us know currently there are few independent sailing journalists and even fewer magazines willing to write truly editorial pieces with the fortitude to criticize what are a boats failings are. I was one of the first in following the boat on Facebook and twitter in conjunction with the contemporary rise of this thread. These are not new sources and are not prone to truth telling. They are selfie sounding boards that others find easy to vibrate into new news since new is exciting. Having worked for Facebook, Twitter and other social media models - That’s how it suppose to work. They are also seemingly free for producer and subscriber. I admire Hans for a few things, he is doing what he wants, building a boat of his own design and fearless enough to measure it soon against others.  I wish him luck in his development and speed in his boat. I am also glad he finds SA a worthy place to pay for advertising going forward since this stir up. We should all be grateful the independence of SA which rests in the content of the various anarchistic producers and not in the ownership of advertisers and portal management. 

 

Someone with northward of 1800 posts should recognise a sock... I have a few more than 3 posts worth of experience, but I don't claim to dictate "how things go here".

After reading your first sentence I was ready to formulate a blunt response... however the rest of your post was surprisingly coherent and courteous. I'm not, and I strongly doubt anyone here, is a shill for Hans, and he didn't start this thread, and I'd guess that most here know roughly how internet revenue works, even in this anarchic corner - "if you're not paying for the product, you are the product". 

From everything I've seen, and any contact I've had with Hans, he is a talented sailor and enthusiastic designer. My guess is that English is at best a second language for him, so some  points may be lost in translation, but I doubt he is deliberately or otherwise depriving our precious SA of funds.

I agree with you that the independence of SA is priceless,  and appreciate your advocacy. Your support for Hans was well disguised, and I guess time will tell if his enthusiasm translates into results. In any case, more diversity in this niche must be a good thing, and I look forward to seeing how she goes against established designs.

Toodle-oo.

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19 minutes ago, Odd Sock said:

Someone with northward of 1800 posts should recognise a sock...

what gave it away?

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On 1/13/2022 at 11:01 AM, pironiero said:

 

Here are data based on the recommended ORC setup.
I am the creative part (designer), but the boat is done by a team, Hannes Rentsch (one of the best CFD guys), Max Gurgel (perhaps the best ORC rating optimizer in NE) and SOLICO (stuctural engineering). The lines plan is not radical, more conservative. The boat is very light (1,6t) due to the Carbon Prepreg and and the engineering. Everthing is produced to worldwide standards and with ISO-certified Quality Management. Unusal is the design above the waterline, radical aerodynamic optimized (which don´t affect the rating) and a lot pf handling optimization.

 

 

AP30_POLARS.thumb.jpg.9a133f2cc35d5241121789af16d90fa4.jpg

 

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@Hans Genthe now we are back on track and talking about the P30, can you comment on what STIX, RCD/ISO category etc you expect the boat to get and whether it’ll be eligible for races like the Fastnet? I remember reading somewhere that 3 tonne displacement was a magic threshold for all this stuff, so interested to hear what’s possible at 1.6 tonnes. 

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On 1/12/2022 at 10:05 PM, Hans Genthe said:

No. Check the website. Boat is finished, but I am sitting on my bed, recovered from Covid 19, waiting for quarantine end. Used the time to read all the comments in the world and found this stream yesterday. Sounds a bit strange to me...

Hope you recover well.  One question I have from the Seahorse article is the cockpit- 20-30 degree heeling can be difficult in waves, but the cockpit floor looks pretty flat. The cockpit is also looks wide, so if you slip, there’s a ways to go before you stop. Kind of a climb to the high side too.  In addition, the foot rails look hard to walk on @ 30 degrees, plus what happens if a foot/toe slips under the bar?  

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That's the worst sail pic (of brand new sails) I've ever seen. Definitely NOT taken by anyone who knows sails (or the sailmaker). Jib tack way up, no backstay tension/mast bend. Shape of the main on the upper half is tragic. Outhaul looks snug, so it seems that there is too much luff curve.

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8 hours ago, ctutmark said:

is that the camera or is there substantial draft in both sails?

Looks like the rig setup is not completed yet. Forestay is slack but it looks like at least the d2 is wound on but the d3 isn't. The mast base and collar probably aren't sorted yet since they had just launched it and probably had some figuring out to do with the rake angle.

Normally you wouldn't hoist the sails so early on in this stage until you are at a decent dock tune. These guys were probably itching to get going and I can sympathize with that. I wouldn't judge much here since its literally day 1 for a totally new boat. 

It might be that there is still to much luff curve(or the topmast is to stiff) up high but its hard to call out a bad sail design before the rig is setup correctly. 

I'm totally speculating now but Pauger seems to like stiffer sections from what I have seen around here and maybe using higher mod laminates as well.  Its possible the sail designer was expecting a more dynamic panel above the hounds like you would get with a standard mod or even an alloy tube. Would be great to the get some drone footage of sailing at all different angles. 

 

 

 

 

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I would be interested to hear other's thoughts on this but to my eye up on the foredeck those lifelines do not meet the minimum height above the working deck or the rule about stanchions not being outboard of the working deck? It's too late here to dig into the International rules but it certainly doesn't meet the Australian rules for Cat 1 to 5...

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1 hour ago, IanA. said:

We will make sailing photos if everything is finally adjusted. We just put the sails up and went out, checking bending and flexibility of the mast. 
Nice agile boat, but needs 1-2 days nice sailing days for adjustment.

 

1 hour ago, IanA. said:

Looks like the rig setup is not completed yet. Forestay is slack but it looks like at least the d2 is wound on but the d3 isn't. The mast base and collar probably aren't sorted yet since they had just launched it and probably had some figuring out to do with the rake angle.

Normally you wouldn't hoist the sails so early on in this stage until you are at a decent dock tune. These guys were probably itching to get going and I can sympathize with that. I wouldn't judge much here since its literally day 1 for a totally new boat. 

It might be that there is still to much luff curve(or the topmast is to stiff) up high but its hard to call out a bad sail design before the rig is setup correctly. 

I'm totally speculating now but Pauger seems to like stiffer sections from what I have seen around here and maybe using higher mod laminates as well.  Its possible the sail designer was expecting a more dynamic panel above the hounds like you would get with a standard mod or even an alloy tube. Would be great to the get some drone footage of sailing at all different angles. 

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Black Jack said:

 

588BD3EC-8FE0-4934-9D41-5F15F284DF48.jpeg

Cool catamaran (?) background left.  Just a guess, but we’ve got some sails that have that kind of draft distribution (French sail design suite software). Partial batten setup for less weight.  Power, not pointing, and the flow stays attached long after you think it wouldn’t. Keeping the nose down, boom in, even downwind etc.  Develops massive lift on underwater foils, twisted flow from increasing camber up top. Main plastered on the shrouds even upwind, sometimes. Seems kind of strange at times, stiff mast concept.  Takes some getting used to.  Tell tails always seem to be streaming.  Don’t know if we’re sold on it, or if I’m a hidebound shibboleth.  I’m fascinated by the line and equipment setup.  Wondering about batten stiffness, tacking in light wind- will they pop without grabbing the boom & pumping like crazy?  Wonder what kind of sections the underwater foils are.

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57 minutes ago, Jethrow said:

stanchions not being outboard of the working deck

The Ran FAST40 treatment of this issue looks a bit smarter to my eye (not that that's a boat with any plans to go offshore). I suppose it's easier if you are only racing W/L and don't need the ability to reach with the jib eased.

d9a9595dd3ecee789ab3abf1c92d4622.jpg

It would be relatively simple (and potentially a good idea) to put a toerail on the top edge of the chamfer on the P30's foredeck...

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First sea trial done 
After a day of many adjustments to the rig, halyards and trim lines, we headed out into the sunset. Only main and jib, no gennaker. But the first impressions are great:
- forgiving behaviour - Dmitry did all harbour manoeuvres without engine
- 35 degrees of heel and still good response
- rig and sails fit perfectly
- well balanced and responsive
- nice ergonomics inside at heel
- fittings at the right place
- all trim adjustments working great
- great working backstay system
Adjustments
- Halyard size and clutches need fine adjustment
- Tiller touches the mainsheet (we will shorten it by 80mm)
- Rudder bearings are a bit rough - we are tweaking our machines and making new ones
- Mainsail sheet cleat angle
- Halyard-deckhouse fittings could have less friction
image.thumb.png.e5033d144347a47561fd309311c0c6dd.png
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8 hours ago, huey 2 said:
First sea trial done 
After a day of many adjustments to the rig, halyards and trim lines, we headed out into the sunset. Only main and jib, no gennaker. But the first impressions are great:
- forgiving behaviour - Dmitry did all harbour manoeuvres without engine
- 35 degrees of heel and still good response
- rig and sails fit perfectly
- well balanced and responsive
- nice ergonomics inside at heel
- fittings at the right place
- all trim adjustments working great
- great working backstay system
Adjustments
- Halyard size and clutches need fine adjustment
- Tiller touches the mainsheet (we will shorten it by 80mm)
- Rudder bearings are a bit rough - we are tweaking our machines and making new ones
- Mainsail sheet cleat angle
- Halyard-deckhouse fittings could have less friction
image.thumb.png.e5033d144347a47561fd309311c0c6dd.png

Are the rudder bearings rough enough so she’ll steer herself?  (Don’t ask how I know….)

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I think the boat looks good but I’m keen to see what the numbers come out at. IRC measured displacement, stability, rating etc and what extras the boat needs to meet special regs Cat A. Otherwise spoilt for choice on fast Cat B boats!

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It grows on me. I think this paintjob is 'not ideal' for European eyes. Looks like the old Southwest livery. But it would be great in a paintjob like Quantum or sth. more crazy. 

I think it would be good to visually indicate (e.g. bright neon yellow vs. black), where you can step on the bow and where not, especially to help you in the dark.

At night, with a wet bow... that is an absolute nightmare and these little footrails won't hold you.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Amati said:

Are the rudder bearings rough enough so she’ll steer herself?  (Don’t ask how I know….)

It's worthwhile checking if the balls are the right size. Fractions of a mm matter.

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1 minute ago, nogetwe said:

It's worthwhile checking if the balls are the right size. Fractions of a mm matter.

I wonder whether it's a Delrin bush system (i.e. no balls) rather than a Jefa self-aligning job. They mentioned that they were machining a new set.

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It's a Melges32 style system with two large bearings on top and at the bottom of a big "drum" that sit's in the hull and the blade is inside that drum in a "jacket". So no typical shaft and bearing systen  like in most boat's.

You have to  take the rudder blade out easy on a trailer boat like an A30.. 

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13 minutes ago, patrese said:

It's a Melges32 style system with two large bearings on top and at the bottom of a big "drum" that sit's in the hull and the blade is inside that drum in a "jacket". So no typical shaft and bearing systen  like in most boat's.

Interesting, thanks. Can you fit a quadrant on the stock (drum) to connect a pilot on this system or are you stuck with tiller pilots?

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On 1/25/2022 at 3:12 AM, huey 2 said:
First sea trial done 
After a day of many adjustments to the rig, halyards and trim lines, we headed out into the sunset. Only main and jib, no gennaker. But the first impressions are great:
- forgiving behaviour - Dmitry did all harbour manoeuvres without engine
- 35 degrees of heel and still good response
- rig and sails fit perfectly
- well balanced and responsive
- nice ergonomics inside at heel
- fittings at the right place
- all trim adjustments working great
- great working backstay system
Adjustments
- Halyard size and clutches need fine adjustment
- Tiller touches the mainsheet (we will shorten it by 80mm)
- Rudder bearings are a bit rough - we are tweaking our machines and making new ones
- Mainsail sheet cleat angle
- Halyard-deckhouse fittings could have less friction
image.thumb.png.e5033d144347a47561fd309311c0c6dd.png

That hatch would a perfect place for Mercedes sponsorship bling.  

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Something in the same general ~niche ~ below, which as a catboat (with a spinn) would get rid of foredeck worries some, although it is stayed, which will keep gybing interesting.

Also wondering why 3000 lbs seems to be a bright line for 30ers?  Rules? Materials? Although the 210 is near that, and it was designed how long ago?  

https://www.yacht-design.nl/designs/solitair-28/?epik=dj0yJnU9NGUyaThTUzI1X09BV3E4VlBUT0pwVjFVbzk1MElPbWomcD0wJm49aUhiVmp1UkRucUNISW00QVlFb25MQSZ0PUFBQUFBR0FaaEE4
 

 

64F02AB9-5027-4862-AE3B-65C64FA87BB3.png

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22 hours ago, User1265 said:

https://www.aeoloscomposites.com/post/aeolos-p30-first-sea-trial

@Hans Genthe

What is so special about the backstay system? For me it looks quite normal.

Further more, I never had a non working backstay system. 

It´s only about fine tuning. The sheets are running very easy and free through the spinlock clutches. 8mm sheets with technora cover and dyneema core. Nice running ball bearing blocks at the backstay and stern, no cheap timbles. The Karver winsches are perfect, faster in the first gear, but same ratio in the second gear compared to the Harken winches on my Farr280. The yard standard system on my Farr280 worked, but if you have to go down/turn the system had too much friction, so the boom was not able to push the backstay out. So I changed timbles into blocks and better sheets. (1400 EUR Invest an my Farr280, series on the AP30)

 

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19 hours ago, Snowden said:

Interesting, thanks. Can you fit a quadrant on the stock (drum) to connect a pilot on this system or are you stuck with tiller pilots?

Check the website. You can add a Jefa Drive. Lot´s of images.

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21 hours ago, JL92S said:

I think the boat looks good but I’m keen to see what the numbers come out at. IRC measured displacement, stability, rating etc and what extras the boat needs to meet special regs Cat A. Otherwise spoilt for choice on fast Cat B boats!

 

19 hours ago, Snowden said:

I wonder whether it's a Delrin bush system (i.e. no balls) rather than a Jefa self-aligning job. They mentioned that they were machining a new set.

Yes, we make a new set. Fine tuning.

 

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On 1/16/2022 at 5:19 PM, Snowden said:

@Hans Genthe now we are back on track and talking about the P30, can you comment on what STIX, RCD/ISO category etc you expect the boat to get and whether it’ll be eligible for races like the Fastnet? I remember reading somewhere that 3 tonne displacement was a magic threshold for all this stuff, so interested to hear what’s possible at 1.6 tonnes. 

The standard boat is for Cat B, but structural engineering and cockpit design is done for A, so we are open for more. We have to finish the CE-Certification now and after that we work on a Cat A Version, if we get a serious client request.

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9 hours ago, Hans Genthe said:

It´s only about fine tuning. The sheets are running very easy and free through the spinlock clutches. 8mm sheets with technora cover and dyneema core. Nice running ball bearing blocks at the backstay and stern, no cheap timbles. The Karver winsches are perfect, faster in the first gear, but same ratio in the second gear compared to the Harken winches on my Farr280. The yard standard system on my Farr280 worked, but if you have to go down/turn the system had too much friction, so the boom was not able to push the backstay out. So I changed timbles into blocks and better sheets. (1400 EUR Invest an my Farr280, series on the AP30)

 

Are you pulling backstays forward, or using block weight so they fall forward?  Any strategies aside from boom grunt to avoid backstays snagging on the sails?  (FWIW I found by accident using an old heavy Harken big ball bearing block up high enough not to bonk heads in the cockpit on the end of the running backs will take a lot, if not all, the work and friction of the boom away. Tackle goes clean from from the side of the stern up to the block and back down.  Only snagging problem is batten ends- even switching to the batten end controls at the luff hasn’t quite stopped that- Spectra sails.). Are there advantages for you having bridles in back for the backstay vs individual staying points a bit to each side? 

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9 hours ago, Amati said:

Are you pulling backstays forward, or using block weight so they fall forward?  Any strategies aside from boom grunt to avoid backstays snagging on the sails?  (FWIW I found by accident using an old heavy Harken big ball bearing block up high enough not to bonk heads in the cockpit on the end of the running backs will take a lot, if not all, the work and friction of the boom away. Tackle goes clean from from the side of the stern up to the block and back down.  Only snagging problem is batten ends- even switching to the batten end controls at the luff hasn’t quite stopped that- Spectra sails.). Are there advantages for you having bridles in back for the backstay vs individual staying points a bit to each side? 

We have an elastic cord from backstay around the mast to the other backstay at the height of the second spreader. One side above the spreader, the other side below. That´s enough to keep the backstay stays always in front of the boom or battens, also when reefed. The blocks are 1,5t breaking load ultralight Allen Aluminium blocks, great stuff. On a hot gennaker run you can use the Spinlock XTX jammer to free the winch for handling the gennaker sheet from max aft windward side. A footrail on the cockpit floor gives a safe/strong grinding position. 

 

backstay.jpg

backstay2.jpg

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On 1/26/2022 at 10:13 AM, Amati said:

Something in the same general ~niche ~ below, which as a catboat (with a spinn) would get rid of foredeck worries some, although it is stayed, which will keep gybing interesting.

Also wondering why 3000 lbs seems to be a bright line for 30ers?  Rules? Materials? Although the 210 is near that, and it was designed how long ago?  

https://www.yacht-design.nl/designs/solitair-28/?epik=dj0yJnU9NGUyaThTUzI1X09BV3E4VlBUT0pwVjFVbzk1MElPbWomcD0wJm49aUhiVmp1UkRucUNISW00QVlFb25MQSZ0PUFBQUFBR0FaaEE4
 

 

64F02AB9-5027-4862-AE3B-65C64FA87BB3.png

this might need its own thread. 

440483670_ScreenShot2022-01-28at6_29_29AM.png

Screen Shot 2022-01-28 at 6.29.56 AM.png

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