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Best $25,000 Bang for your Buck


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Budget: $25,000

Goal: Short (Single or Double Handed) Long Distant Racing

Sail Area: Lake Ontario

Boat Length: 26’-32’

Got any recommendations ?

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I too would endorse the 9.1.  Had one for 5 years.  Makes you look like a better sailor than you are (at least me :rolleyes:).  Raced several series on it shorthanded, intending to go JAM, but not enough boats, so raced in the Spin (B) class.  Won one, or placed on the podium the other time against fully crewed boats....its a sweetheart of a boat.

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14 hours ago, Snatch Block said:

Budget: $25,000

Goal: Short (Single or Double Handed) Long Distant Racing

Sail Area: Lake Ontario

Boat Length: 26’-32’

Got any recommendations ?

Here we go again, eh Snatch?  Based on your previous quests, have you thought about FLAK?  https://sailinganarchy.com/advert/andrews-30-custom-morc/

 

A few questions:

Is that US$ or CAN$?

What speed potential do you want?

Does it need to be on a trailer?  If yes, how would you be launching/hauling?

 

Cheers!

 

 

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The search never ends...

Yes: Trailerable is a must

$: $25,000 Cdn

PHRF: Decent & Fair PHRF rating to compensate for my shitty sailing skills.

Shortlist: J-80, Carrera 290, Olson 30, J-27 or J29. If I had another $10,000 in my budget J92.

 

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3 hours ago, CriticalPath said:

Here we go again, eh Snatch?  Based on your previous quests, have you thought about FLAK?  https://sailinganarchy.com/advert/andrews-30-custom-morc/

 

A few questions:

Is that US$ or CAN$?

What speed potential do you want?

Does it need to be on a trailer?  If yes, how would you be launching/hauling?

 

Cheers!

 

 

That looks like a well thought out boat.

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5 hours ago, CriticalPath said:

Here we go again, eh Snatch?  Based on your previous quests, have you thought about FLAK?  https://sailinganarchy.com/advert/andrews-30-custom-morc/

 

A few questions:

Is that US$ or CAN$?

What speed potential do you want?

Does it need to be on a trailer?  If yes, how would you be launching/hauling?

 

Cheers!

 

 

now why would you buy a boat where there's nowhere to catch a nap in the cockpit?  

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1 hour ago, Snatch Block said:

Yes: Trailerable is a must

 

Shortlist: J-80, Carrera 290, Olson 30, J-27 or J29. If I had another $10,000 in my budget J92.

 

What is your definition of trailerable? Almost any boat can be put on a trailer, doesn't necessarily mean they're 'trailerable'.

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3 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

now why would you buy a boat where there's nowhere to catch a nap in the cockpit?  

Au contraire mon ami, if the bathtub cockpit in FLAK is anything like the other A30s I've sailed on it is perfect for safe and secure napping. 

IMG_4914.jpg

 

Way more comfie than the Evelyn 32-2 we once borrowed for a 300 mile doublehanded race where the cockpie was still the best bet for naps.

Cheers!

 

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2 hours ago, Snatch Block said:

The search never ends...

Yes: Trailerable is a must

$: $25,000 Cdn

PHRF: Decent & Fair PHRF rating to compensate for my shitty sailing skills.

Shortlist: J-80, Carrera 290, Olson 30, J-27 or J29. If I had another $10,000 in my budget J92.

 

Of that list I'd choose O30 or J/27 as best compromises for shorthanded.  I'd add the Hobie 33 but I know it's not your favourite (although the O30 is not that dissimilar).  Toss in a few more boat bucks and the J/92'd be a great choice.

Cheers!

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A few others to think about. Olson 911S or SE, Capo 30, Santana 3030 and other similar MORC boats. Most are set up for crewed racing and do like some weight on the rail, but pretty much everything is led to the cockpit and can be gotten to with a tiller extension. 

We've been doublehanding our Olson 911SE so far this year and it's been a lot of fun. 

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13 minutes ago, Slick470 said:

A few others to think about. Olson 911S or SE, Capo 30, Santana 3030 and other similar MORC boats. Most are set up for crewed racing and do like some weight on the rail, but pretty much everything is led to the cockpit and can be gotten to with a tiller extension. 

We've been doublehanding our Olson 911SE so far this year and it's been a lot of fun. 

Yes, any mid 80s and on MORC 30 design could be a suitable shorthanded platform.  In general they are pretty wholesome designs, PHRFs're 130 or better, and without many vices.  Sure weight on the rail helps but their sailing characteristics are still pretty good for shorthanding.

Most are steered by tiller, budget for the very best autohelm you can afford + a backup...

Cheers!

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On 5/10/2021 at 11:46 AM, CriticalPath said:

Au contraire mon ami, if the bathtub cockpit in FLAK is anything like the other A30s I've sailed on it is perfect for safe and secure napping. 

IMG_4914.jpg

 

Way more comfie than the Evelyn 32-2 we once borrowed for a 300 mile doublehanded race where the cockpie was still the best bet for naps.

Cheers!

 

nope, i disagree, not a dry spot to nap ...

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6 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

nope, i disagree, not a dry spot to nap ...

OK sure, but the cockpit's not the right place to be napping anyways when racing single/short.  Polyphasic sleeping works best when the nap location is a proper sea berth below that's comfortable, secure, and easily accessible.

Serious setups include a Watch Commander or similar to stay in cycle.

http://www.sailsafely.com/watchcommander.htm

Nothing wakes you up better than the secondary siren on this puppy!  Unfortunately, it's no longer in production, but there are alternatives that offer similar functionality.

Cheers!

 

PhotoGuide.jpg

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On 5/16/2021 at 6:30 PM, jetfuel said:

There was an Atrim 27 close by that he should have bought Checked off all of the boxes

Yep, Antrim 27 gets my vote. Might be closer to the 30K range though. 

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24 minutes ago, sierrawhiskeygolf said:

Agreed but totally not in the brief due to the price. They are +$5K to +$15K more.

That's asking price!   And they all appear to be in Europe.  I have never noticed them before.  I like the interior.

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On 5/16/2021 at 7:30 PM, jetfuel said:

There was an Atrim 27 close by that he should have bought Checked off all of the boxes

I saw and sailed that boat, really nice but the wet hull and decks turned me off

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5 hours ago, Snatch Block said:

I saw and sailed that boat, really nice but the wet hull and decks turned me off

Geez Snatch,

I woulda thought any sub 30’ that is fast is going to be pretty wet? Or do you mean it was rotten/soft?

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16 hours ago, Snatch Block said:

I saw and sailed that boat, really nice but the wet hull and decks turned me off

That is a shame it looked good in the pics ;) as they always do 

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17 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

Geez Snatch,

I woulda thought any sub 30’ that is fast is going to be pretty wet? Or do you mean it was rotten/soft?

Wet stringers and deck core

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Kirby 30 

- PHRF: 132

- 5,500 lbs so trailerable 

- all controls lead to cockpit

- fractional rig so the genoa / spin not too big to handle

i second the Laser 28 - standing headroom, pretty quick.

also, any C&C between 27 - 30' - comfortable cockpits, typically good ratings, though very few are on a trailer

biggest challenge right now is there is very little available - according to Yachtworld, in the US (great lakes region) and Ontario there are a sum total of 90 sailboats for sale in your price range, of which I would guess > 50% have an offer on them.  If you are looking across all of Canada (no US boats), then you are down to 20 boats, of which 5 already have an offer on them.

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That may pay for the right to rent a slip in Santa Royale.  You then get to pay property tax on this right after paying the slip "transfer fee". Then you must pay luxury tax on your 25' boat.  Now you pay a parking permit fee.  Then you pay the slip rent.  This pretty much uses up your budget and you have no boat yet.

 

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2 hours ago, Goatish said:

There is a Laser 28 for sale in West Van currently, sitting on a trailer and in pretty good shape overall. $17,900.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/nvn/boa/d/west-vancouver-west-1985-laser-28/7322751135.html

Except for the topside paint job.  And included sail inventory.

Has rebuilt Bukh - so it has that going for it.  But a rebuild can mean several things depending on who performed it.

Decent price if the newish sail inventory were included in the price.

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I do like me an Aphrodite 101.

Buying a boat under 25k is easy. getting sails to make her go is another thing.

 

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On 5/10/2021 at 12:46 PM, CriticalPath said:

Au contraire mon ami, if the bathtub cockpit in FLAK is anything like the other A30s I've sailed on it is perfect for safe and secure napping. 

IMG_4914.jpg

 

Way more comfie than the Evelyn 32-2 we once borrowed for a 300 mile doublehanded race where the cockpie was still the best bet for naps.

Cheers!

 

Going upwind in a MORC Maxi is about as sweet a ride as you can get. They put three speed winches on those boats for a reason. There is a lot of sheet to pull in tacking. 
 

I agree with other posters that they don’t have any real vices. 
 

Having sailed both MORC Maxis and a Laser 28. I would lean to the 28 if the boat is in good shape. The MORC Maxi is a full custom build so the boat should be fine. The Laser 28 has standing headroom, is nearly 3000 lbs lighter and planes when the breeze is up. 

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21 hours ago, Black Jack said:

I do like me an Aphrodite 101.

Buying a boat under 25k is easy. getting sails to make her go is another thing.

 

From last night's race. confirmed that they are nice, fast upwind under basic plan and fast down wind as evidenced.

FullSizeRender.jpeg

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17 hours ago, Black Jack said:

From last night's race. confirmed that they are nice, fast upwind under basic plan and fast down wind as evidenced.

FullSizeRender.jpeg

Used to race against one of those. Never worked out how the fucking thing went as fast as it did.

It was sailed by 3 of bastards.

Old bastard one drove and didn't bother to cross the boat when they tacked. Not sure he was very mobile.

I think old bastard 2 was wife of old bastard 1. She chilled in the hatch like Rommel and handed out beverages and sandwiches.

Old bastard 3 was a bit more mobile, he pulled sheets.

Nice yacht. Not exciting, but nice.

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10 hours ago, Snatch Block said:

Flak looks like a sweet boat. 

 

It won everything while at National Yacht Club 

owner replaced it with an X-35

fantastic upwind machine 

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11 hours ago, Snatch Block said:

Flak looks like a sweet boat. 

 

Flak was a legendary boat/ program in MORC.
 

It will be a joy to sail upwind, 7000 lbs hull that slices through waves. But the MORC rule didn’t penalize sail area as much as boat weight which is why the boat has that large triple spreader rig. 

If you look at the picture of the tiller you will see the check stay cleats on the traveler bar, so the main trimmer would sit behind you. 
You can cross sheet the jibs to the high side. 
Boat will load up in breeze. But no IOR shuffle downwind and you sail them deep. 

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On 5/10/2021 at 10:45 AM, CriticalPath said:

Yes, any mid 80s and on MORC 30 design could be a suitable shorthanded platform.  In general they are pretty wholesome designs, PHRFs're 130 or better, and without many vices.  Sure weight on the rail helps but their sailing characteristics are still pretty good for shorthanding.

Most are steered by tiller, budget for the very best autohelm you can afford + a backup...

Cheers!

CriticalPaths advice is really good. I would expand the search to a custom 1/2 tonners well built in the 70s as well that have been taken care of and loved. They are well in your price range, have cockpits and travellers that can be modified to your needs, are stiffer due to keel weight and have an interior that is more comfortable than plastic. although they may be closer to PHRF of 140 to 150, they tend to be easier on the sailor. Upwind - I have seen them faster than O30 and Laser 28s in blows in more than 15kts appearant. Downwind they do give up but not by much if a spin is used. Under a corrected time, the owner of a half ton can take top places plus have a beautiful boat to be proud of.

Given some of your budget, I would look for a boat that delivers decent thrills and comfort, has good rigging, a solid well maintaned inboard engine with a folding prop, leaving you to buy a good new mixed dacron main sail, a spitfire blade, a 120, a-symetrical and and regular spin (in addition to the other sails that come with the boat) and a stern boarding ladder. That is a platform to be personally successful in.

 

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On 5/21/2021 at 11:29 PM, Matagi said:

JOD 35

7571694_20200907050235693_1_XLARGE.jpg?t=1604570740000&w=900&h=900

 

JOD 35 suitable for shorthanded?

There is one around the region I can get, it have the reputation of being slow in light air, and the mast is pretty weak.

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9 hours ago, Snowden said:

Hugely successful S/H, many have had water ballast added

http://www.dinah.sail.ie/?cat=3

Very interesting, it really didn't did too well in our light wind regions but a sturdy boat and very good downwind.

Mast is pretty much the weak point, I would do a little work on it if I were to use it for long distance race.

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  • 3 months later...
  • 1 month later...

...and from the dark side. How about an F-27?

image.png.beaf258b7818ea177779ef17a4508213.png

Easy to short hand : Check

Accommodations : Check

Trailerable : Check

Ramp or crane launch : Check

Weight : 2650lbs to 3800lbs

Price : $25,000 to $30,000 typical

PHRF: 42-48

 

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It seems like you guys are all just talking about nice boats in the rough length range that the OP requested. For short handed long distance racing I think we need to be a little more specific. The boat should go upwind well without weight on the rail. Have an asymmetrical spinnaker because they are so much easier to handle short handed, and they out perform their rating on reaching legs. Plane downwind because its really hard to beat a planing boat in planing conditions. Tiller steering because the Autopilot is much cheaper/easier. Finally controls led aft to minimize trips forward. 

Seems to me like that boat is an F-24! (An F-27 is really like $35k. I bought one for $25k and it would have been cheaper to get a well sorted $35k boat)

If not a multi-then maybe a J80? 

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I wouldn't take a Santana 3030 beyond where I could be rescued in less than 6 hours.  I owned one and I have a story which will bore everyone, but there you go.

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Honestly, for shorthanded racing, around SF Bay it's pretty hard to beat an Express 27.  I mean, you get all the One Design perks, too. Then again, you'll have to keep up on the sail inventory and so on, if you want to be competitive.

Outside of NorCal, lots of options.  Just....Santana 3030 probably ought not be one of them, if you're thinking about going out where waves get big and wind gets strong.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Laser28 suggestion is a good one. I have only ever raced on one once but small cockpit suits 2h especially if you rate the boat with non overlapping headsail. We raced the boat with 3 people due to Covid crew limit restrictions and only negative was larger overlapping jib. I've owned a J92 and yes they are cool boats but way over budget.

 

As per above JOD35's were raced successfully 2h friends of mine started a 2h transatlantic in one but retired due to sail damage, as above Dinah completed a solo transatlantic. Would be expensive to run in terms of sails vs smaller options

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6 hours ago, inneedofadvice said:

Not even close. 

Disagree on The Source.

A very well thought out renovation of an excellent platform, executed at a high level by Moore Boats. Very little you could get comparable for that price tag. The boat has pretty much been made new - standing rigging, running rigging, deck, and has some very thoughtful reworking of her systems. If you were thinking of an Olson 30 as an option, it's a good one.

There is another O30 for sale on olson30.org that has been completely refit for singlehanded sailing, even higher price tag (maybe a bit of a reach), but the boat is really something, has been completely rethought inside and out and has won many singlehanded events recently on the Great Lakes.

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I’ve looked at both and they are amazing vessels.

No cockpit seats in The Source…not sure if that’s a good thing or bad.

Resale when I’m done is always an important consideration.

Regards,

 

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J/80

Get the larger jib/genoa (125?) for light air, more than worth the rating hit seeing as how most regions give the J/80 a soft rating. Deep running spin and a reacher.  Boat is easy to set up and maintain.  Trailers well.  Very easy to race double-handed.  Never see one set up for single handing but should be do-able with a decent Otto as the cockpit and tiller configuration should lend itself well to a torque’y installation.

Rotten to sleep in, but when exhausted rocks can feel comfy.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/26/2021 at 4:08 PM, Black Jack said:

I do like me an Aphrodite 101.

Buying a boat under 25k is easy. getting sails to make her go is another thing.

 

A list that includes the Aphrodite probably also includes the Tartan 10.

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On 11/2/2021 at 1:16 PM, solosailor said:

A J/80 is not a boat to take offshore on a distance race.

Not necessarily, though not necessarily everyone's cup of tea.

 

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Do you have a contrarian frame of mind?

There was a Beneteau 30 designed by Juan K. It disappeared from the market pretty quickly which suggested to me that it was a market failure,  probably because it didn't meet buyer expectations, not because it was a bad boat. But what do I know. But maybe, if you can find one, it would be a good buy because of an undeserved bad rap.

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12 hours ago, sierrawhiskeygolf said:

Semi the First 30 JK is way outside the price point of the topic, surely?

There are a few on Lake Ontario and they do well.

 

 

 

 

Probably. I confess I made the suggestion mostly to see if there was pocket of love for the design anywhere out there.

To atone for being slightly manipulative,  I'll point out there is a ad for a Choate 27 in the SA classifieds. $2500. A bit of a project boat, possibly, but a realistic price point.  

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On 11/14/2021 at 3:50 PM, sierrawhiskeygolf said:

Disagree on The Source.

A very well thought out renovation of an excellent platform, executed at a high level by Moore Boats. Very little you could get comparable for that price tag. The boat has pretty much been made new - standing rigging, running rigging, deck, and has some very thoughtful reworking of her systems. If you were thinking of an Olson 30 as an option, it's a good one.

There is another O30 for sale on olson30.org that has been completely refit for singlehanded sailing, even higher price tag (maybe a bit of a reach), but the boat is really something, has been completely rethought inside and out and has won many singlehanded events recently on the Great Lakes.

Do Olson 30s go upwind with no rail meat?  I never thought of that as a shorthanded boat, other than one way downhill.

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On Olson 30 is a tender boat, you cannot escape that. But you only need look at how well the boats do shorthanded to see that it's competitive despite that characteristic. There is a reason the O30 has done so well on the SHTP, which is largely a downwind/off the wind race, but on Lake Ontario where the OP is sailing, Olson 30's do very well in both crewed and SH coastal/offshore events and these races require the boat to work at all points of sail. I imagine if you were to analyze say a 50nm SH race that has mixed upwind and down/offwind legs you'd see the O30 making ground downwind against her competition and holding or maybe falling off somewhat upwind.

In W/L racing the O30 needs rail weight to be competitive.

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On 11/26/2021 at 6:05 PM, sierrawhiskeygolf said:

Semi the First 30 JK is way outside the price point of the topic, surely?

There are a few on Lake Ontario and they do well.

 

 

 

 

jk is a killer, responsible for more lead on the ocean's bottom than any other 'designer', as well as the yard sale, that took Bart's life, that was Artemis' Big Red Dog. the first 30 thats up your way is a bit of a killer as well, having taken the life of an O30..... fuck Juan K

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2 hours ago, sierrawhiskeygolf said:

O30 near Ontario Place with a big hole in her side (wrapped in a blue tarp), courtesy one of aforementioned First 30 JK's.

I didn't realize that Juan K designed the Artemis boat, shite Basket, sorry.

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_3502.jpg.736f3f36bbd16ba9cbf046ffd0b36260.jpg

Both of the big cats. Fuck Juan K

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