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American Abandonment of Innocent Afghanis to Slaughter


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The bloodbath has begun and we have a long hot summer season of daily bombings and atrocities to suffer through.  Biden was stupid as fuck to publicly announcement the abandonment.  Of course, we really need to remember, and thank, George W. Bush ("Decider 41") for misdirecting our troops from Tora Bora to Bagdad, thereby assuring the 20 year war for nothing.  Enjoy the article

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/09/asia/afghanistan-girls-school-attack-intl-hnk/index.html

 

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I think this falls under the "They Like It This Way" problem.  In 3 centuries 3 great powers have tried and failed to make Afghans do anything but act like Afghans. I say we had our turn and now someone else can give it a shot.

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5 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I think this falls under the "They Like It This Way" problem.  In 3 centuries 3 great powers have tried and failed to make Afghans do anything but act like Afghans. I say we had our turn and now someone else can give it a shot.

choice.

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1 hour ago, Timur said:

The bloodbath has begun and we have a long hot summer season of daily bombings and atrocities to suffer through.  Biden was stupid as fuck to publicly announcement the abandonment.  Of course, we really need to remember, and thank, George W. Bush ("Decider 41") for misdirecting our troops from Tora Bora to Bagdad, thereby assuring the 20 year war for nothing.  Enjoy the article

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/09/asia/afghanistan-girls-school-attack-intl-hnk/index.html

 

Bloodbath?  Hardly.

This has happened EVERY TIME we have announced a draw-down or leaving.  It's going to happen regardless, and we need to leave.  The taliban has announced they did not sanction and were against this attack.

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Yes its a tragedy however the US exit is the right thing to do, the US has been there 20 years. The Russians lasted 10 before giving up.

They have enriched feudal warlords playing both ends to the middle.

The US taxpayer has rather ironically thrown money at infrastructure and roads only to have the roads blown up because the people at the end of the road were nicely isolated from the tax man, the road meant the taxman could pay a visit.

The average typical salary is only USD 1,000.00 a year, a high earner might make USD 16,000 a year so I would agree education is key and yes the Taliban know that is a threat to their very existence.

https://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/afghanistan

Contrast that to the US cost USD 978 billion through end of fiscal 2020, perhaps you should have just bought the country.

https://www.thebalance.com/cost-of-afghanistan-war-timeline-economic-impact-4122493

The change has to come from within, even your most patriotic would have misgivings about their son or daughter being deployed there.

You ain't gonna win anything there.

I honestly do not know how best to proceed but you would think someone who has been there would be listened to,  but thats not necessarily how a military presence works is it.

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Let's not to forget to thank the Decider in Chief for diverting our Tora Bora troops to Afgannistaniii to extract retribution against Saddam for trying to kill Shrub's Daddy (POTUS 41) for his successful Desert Storm and Desert Shield operations.

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It's been about 300 years since nations started trying to civilize A'Stan.

All have failed, at enormous cost in lives and money.

America went in to get Bin Laden and should have left once they accomplished that.

It's long past time they were just left alone to kill each other.

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6 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

It's been about 300 years since nations started trying to civilize A'Stan.

All have failed, at enormous cost in lives and money.

America went in to get Bin Laden and should have left once they accomplished that.

It's long past time they were just left alone to kill each other.

Alexander the Great did it.

Tamurlane did it.

Of course, they did it by ruthlessly seeking out >90% of all men between the ages of 12 and 45, and either killing them or recruiting them to go a-soldiering in ferangi lands. I think there are some roads credited to Alexander but both he and Tamerlane left mountains of skulls as their most enduring public monuments.

Afghanistant is a land that gets right down to basics.

- DSK

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Alexander the Great did it.

Tamurlane did it.

Of course, they did it by ruthlessly seeking out >90% of all men between the ages of 12 and 45, and either killing them or recruiting them to go a-soldiering in ferangi lands. I think there are some roads credited to Alexander but both he and Tamerlane left mountains of skulls as their most enduring public monuments.

Afghanistant is a land that gets right down to basics.

- DSK

The essential problem in a nutshell.

Sure we can kill them all, but we sold this war after Bin Laden ran off as making the place a nice safe country for girls to walk to school in, not a place for us to do some genocide. So absent killing them, we need to leave them be.

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I'm getting terribly confused here. Is the vitriol towards Biden for this withdrawal because he's withdrawing in the first place, or because he delayed the timeline originally announced by Trump of May 1?

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9 minutes ago, Danceswithoctopus said:

I'm getting terribly confused here. Is the vitriol towards Biden for this withdrawal because he's withdrawing in the first place, or because he delayed the timeline originally announced by Trump of May 1?

Yes!

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20 minutes ago, Raz'r said:
29 minutes ago, Danceswithoctopus said:

I'm getting terribly confused here. Is the vitriol towards Biden for this withdrawal because he's withdrawing in the first place, or because he delayed the timeline originally announced by Trump of May 1?

Yes!

I hope my posts don't seem too much like vitriol. I'm irked that we have been in Afghanistan as long as we have. Some time over the past 12+ years we should have left. And civil war against the gov't was almost certain to start as we were leaving, no matter what state the country was in. It's endemic for them. It would have been nice to wipe out the Taliban before leaving though.

 

1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

The essential problem in a nutshell.

Sure we can kill them all, but we sold this war after Bin Laden ran off as making the place a nice safe country for girls to walk to school in, not a place for us to do some genocide. So absent killing them, we need to leave them be.

The core problem is that Afghanistan is not really one country. There are no real Afghans. They are about 5 countries, with 2 bigger stronger tribes who bully and exploit (rape, murder, enslave) the others whenever they can get away with it. There has been a king and a sort-of democratic assembly in recent history; the gov't could best be described as a satrapy where the big boss takes money and slaves from the lesser bosses, but there is no "government" as we think of it. The Taliban form another "tribe" who claim religious loyalty but their real strength is that they entice young men to come fight for them by promising sexy young slave girls (or boys).

The Taliban have been most effective at cutting off the flow of opium, though. They tolerate a small amount of alcohol and drug use among their leaders, and favorites, but not mass quantities for profit.

- DSK

 

 

 

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It really is quite simple:

We are destroying our society by spending money on wars rather than education and physically building and maintaining our own country. 
as our citizens fall further behind in education and our old tooling becomes obsolete, we are slowly falling from the top of the heap. 

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The Neocons got their playground for 20 years, and laundered a bunch of borrowed money through Afghanistan and back to the Best Americans. 20 years is long enough. It should have ended the moment that  bin Laden got out of Tora Bora. 

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46 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

The Neocons got their playground for 20 years, and laundered a bunch of borrowed money through Afghanistan and back to the Best Americans. 20 years is long enough. It should have ended the moment GEORGE W BUSH ALLOWED bin Laden got out of Tora Bora. 

See all caps.  Fixed it fer ya

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11 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

If only we could magically stop people from killing each other.....

Yeah, but we don't have to participate with such enthusiasm.

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1 minute ago, Timur said:

See all caps.  Fixed it fer ya

I was actually going to write that, but resisted the urge, considering that we are now on our third President since George the Dumber yet we are still in Afghanistan. Bush subbed out the Tora Bora operation that let him get away, Obummer sent bin Laden to live with SpongeBob Squarepants (YOO HOO...Malarkey...where'd you go?), but didn't get us out, and Trump talked about getting us out of the place but did fuck all to accomplish it because bullshitting doesn't move troops home. 

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Amazing.  The Cuntry that can't stop people being killed while the Capital is being stormed is concerned about Afghans getting killed?

  • So has Halliburton sucked all the life it can out of the place already?
  • Are the oil wells dry?
  • Is the place no longer needed to put pressure on Putin?
  • Have the Military got enough foreign wars to get their promotions or Overseas Service pay?
  • Has the military industrial complex got enough contracts now?

WTF is going on?

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42 minutes ago, Randorm said:

Amazing.  The Cuntry that can't stop people being killed while the Capital is being stormed is concerned about Afghans getting killed?

  • So has Halliburton sucked all the life it can out of the place already?
  • Are the oil wells dry?
  • Is the place no longer needed to put pressure on Putin?
  • Have the Military got enough foreign wars to get their promotions or Overseas Service pay?
  • Has the military industrial complex got enough contracts now?

WTF is going on?

Won't anyone think about the SHAREHOLDERS? How in the hell are they supposed to turn a buck if the troops come home? 

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2 hours ago, bridhb said:

Yeah, but we don't have to participate with such enthusiasm.

Thank you......I'm just f'ng sick of this shit. 231 +/-countries in this world.....doesn't mean we need to try and save every frickin one of them. America's just 250 years old....A-Stan is what......a thousand? 2 thousand? Build 4 roads in all for compass quadrants the lead to neighboring countries, send lots a Jeeps and Land Rovers and suitcases and hand out $500.00  and let the innocent Afghanis have 90 daze to get the fuk out of there and start a new life somewhere else.....and let the Taliban and the 'Warlords' hash out their fuking differences until no one's left.

And may the best camel win.....

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2 hours ago, El Mariachi said:

If only we could magically stop people from killing each other.....

could start at home :rolleyes:

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6 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Alexander the Great did it.

Tamurlane did it.

Of course, they did it by ruthlessly seeking out >90% of all men between the ages of 12 and 45, and either killing them or recruiting them to go a-soldiering in ferangi lands. I think there are some roads credited to Alexander but both he and Tamerlane left mountains of skulls as their most enduring public monuments.

Afghanistant is a land that gets right down to basics.

- DSK

They were all just trying to conquer it.

AFAIK the Brits were the first to make even a token effort to civilize the benighted place - and that was nearly 200 years ago.

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4 hours ago, nolatom said:

Isn’t this is an internal Afghan problem?    If they attack us again we demand they hand us the criminals, or we just start making settlements disappear until the problem does.    If they ask for help we can provide aid, until they attack the aid workers.   I’d prefer Cuba didn’t try to occupy Puerto Rico to pacify our murder rate and Mexico doesn’t occupy the rest to educate us out of racism.   Canada is still welcome to come down and teach us how to hold a peaceful and timely election.    Bring cider.   

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9 hours ago, Timur said:

The bloodbath has begun and we have a long hot summer season of daily bombings and atrocities to suffer through.  Biden was stupid as fuck to publicly announcement the abandonment.  Of course, we really need to remember, and thank, George W. Bush ("Decider 41") for misdirecting our troops from Tora Bora to Bagdad, thereby assuring the 20 year war for nothing.  Enjoy the article

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/09/asia/afghanistan-girls-school-attack-intl-hnk/index.html

 

Weak.

Slight tip of the hat to Biden for finally getting us out.  I would have gone with July 4th if feasible though.

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7 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

It's been about 300 years since nations started trying to civilize A'Stan.

All have failed, at enormous cost in lives and money.

 

Old Boomers showing their ignorance again with idiotic comments.

Afghan women weren't getting shot in the head or blown up for wanting an education in the 60s or 70s so what happened did Saudi petrodollars help fundaMental Islam return to rule over Afghans?

Have a look at what it was like in the 1960s and 70s in Afghanistan they looked civilised with women going to university.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=afghanistan+in+the+1960s&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwinzvS_ocDwAhUwhEsFHeLVD_kQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=afghanistan+in+the+1960s&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQARgAMgIIADIGCAAQBRAeMgQIABAYUNSQPFjUlDxgmKc8aABwAHgAgAHZAYgB4gKSAQUwLjEuMZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwAEB&sclient=img&ei=68CZYOesLbCIrtoP4qu_yA8&bih=504&biw=1094

 

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=afghanistan+in+the+1970s&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjU8vCXpcDwAhUUAysKHS2NBYcQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=afghanistan+in+the+1970s&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQARgAMgIIADIGCAAQCBAeMgYIABAIEB5Qx_UEWN2eBWDRsgVoAXAAeACAAdgBiAG-BpIBBTAuNC4xmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=ycSZYJTqIJSGrAGtmpa4CA&bih=504&biw=1094

The US made a huge mistake with backing the Mujahideen after the soviet invasion which resulted in the Taliban taking over.

Quote

Chapter: The High Positions that Allah has prepared for the Mujahid in Paradise

 

It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Sa`id al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said (to him):

Abu Sa`id, whoever cheerfully accepts Allah as his Lord, Islam as his religion and Muhammad as his Apostle is necessarily entitled to enter Paradise. He (Abu Sa`id) wondered at it and said: Messenger of Allah, repeat it for me. He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth.
 
He (Abu Sa`id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!

 

Boomers like you should wear a hijab to show solidarity with fundaMental muslims killing girls for wanting an education

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10 hours ago, Timur said:

The bloodbath has begun and we have a long hot summer season of daily bombings and atrocities to suffer through.  Biden was stupid as fuck to publicly announcement the abandonment.  Of course, we really need to remember, and thank, George W. Bush ("Decider 41") for misdirecting our troops from Tora Bora to Bagdad, thereby assuring the 20 year war for nothing.  Enjoy the article

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/09/asia/afghanistan-girls-school-attack-intl-hnk/index.html

 

Trump announced withdrawal. That escape your notice?   

 

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31 minutes ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

Old Boomers showing their ignorance again with idiotic comments.

Afghan women weren't getting shot in the head or blown up for wanting an education in the 60s or 70s so what happened did Saudi petrodollars help fundaMental Islam return to rule over Afghans?

Have a look at what it was like in the 1960s and 70s in Afghanistan they looked civilised with women going to university.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=afghanistan+in+the+1960s&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwinzvS_ocDwAhUwhEsFHeLVD_kQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=afghanistan+in+the+1960s&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQARgAMgIIADIGCAAQBRAeMgQIABAYUNSQPFjUlDxgmKc8aABwAHgAgAHZAYgB4gKSAQUwLjEuMZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwAEB&sclient=img&ei=68CZYOesLbCIrtoP4qu_yA8&bih=504&biw=1094

 

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=afghanistan+in+the+1970s&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjU8vCXpcDwAhUUAysKHS2NBYcQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=afghanistan+in+the+1970s&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQARgAMgIIADIGCAAQCBAeMgYIABAIEB5Qx_UEWN2eBWDRsgVoAXAAeACAAdgBiAG-BpIBBTAuNC4xmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=ycSZYJTqIJSGrAGtmpa4CA&bih=504&biw=1094

The US made a huge mistake with backing the Mujahideen after the soviet invasion which resulted in the Taliban taking over.

 

Boomers like you should wear a hijab to show solidarity with fundaMental muslims killing girls for wanting an education

You should adopt one, surely her relatives won't mind. 

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2 hours ago, Lark said:

Isn’t this is an internal Afghan problem?    If they attack us again we demand they hand us the criminals, or we just start making settlements disappear until the problem does.    If they ask for help we can provide aid, until they attack the aid workers.   I’d prefer Cuba didn’t try to occupy Puerto Rico to pacify our murder rate and Mexico doesn’t occupy the rest to educate us out of racism.   Canada is still welcome to come down and teach us how to hold a peaceful and timely election.    Bring cider.   

Mexico to 'educate' us out of racism? Seriously? You ever f'ng been here? Jfc but Mexico is almost more racist than Japan, Germany and Finland......:lol:

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$978,000,000,000/36,000,000 = 27K for each Afghan citizen.   The US should have offered every single Afghani 27K to shut down the Taliban and democratize.   The Taliban wouldn't have existed more than a month or two longer.

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4 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

$978,000,000,000/36,000,000 = 27K for each Afghan citizen.   The US should have offered every single Afghani 27K to shut down the Taliban and democratize.   The Taliban wouldn't have existed more than a month or two longer.

Not a chance. That money wasn’t for Afghans. It was for the Best Americans. 

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1 minute ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Not a chance. That money wasn’t for Afghans. It was for the Best Americans. 

Exactly. Lil Kim could be sitting in the south of France bangin Russian hookers but no, we need to pretend to be threatened so as to spend more $s on “defense”

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4 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Exactly. Lil Kim could be sitting in the south of France bangin Russian hookers but no, we need to pretend to be threatened so as to spend more $s on “defense”

And the scary Cuban terrorists attacking our diplomats.... Wait what?

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/10/russia-gru-directed-energy-486640

 

 

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You should go to war to stop some action of a state and punish them for their actions.

Once you have done that, tell them don't do that again or we will return.

Then go home and keep an eye on the fuckers.

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55 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

$978,000,000,000/36,000,000 = 27K for each Afghan citizen.   The US should have offered every single Afghani 27K to shut down the Taliban and democratize.   The Taliban wouldn't have existed more than a month or two longer.

Nope, the Taliban would have just taken the money.  Your belief in giving people money to solve a problem is kinda cutely naive.

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42 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

And the scary Cuban terrorists attacking our diplomats.... Wait what?

 

 

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

When folks start swimming back to Cuba to escape American oppression of blacks and Hispanics I'll start believing in the workers paradise.

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Well, the US also abandons some of its own troops . . 

recruits them into the US military from Mexico and Central America .  

and then deports them when their service is done. 

(to be fair and balanced, most of them did run afoul of the law . . . like many vets) 

https://www.npr.org/local/309/2019/06/21/733371297/deported-u-s-veterans-feel-abandoned-by-the-country-they-defended

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6 hours ago, Lark said:

Isn’t this is an internal Afghan problem?    If they attack us again we demand they hand us the criminals, or we just start making settlements disappear until the problem does.    If they ask for help we can provide aid, until they attack the aid workers.   I’d prefer Cuba didn’t try to occupy Puerto Rico to pacify our murder rate and Mexico doesn’t occupy the rest to educate us out of racism.   Canada is still welcome to come down and teach us how to hold a peaceful and timely election.    Bring cider.   

116356-600x600.jpg

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14 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I think this falls under the "They Like It This Way" problem.  In 3 centuries 3 great powers have tried and failed to make Afghans do anything but act like Afghans. I say we had our turn and now someone else can give it a shot.

We exacerbated the problem, we stuck our fingers in the machine.

When I was a kid, if I used my old-man's milling machine or his lathe, and I broke it, I was expected to fix it. Leaving it fucked was not an option. So what do we do about Afghanistan? Maybe start here ...

http://afghansmallbus.org/

https://www.newyork.mfa.af/business-investment/doing-business-in-afghanistan.html

https://www.usaid.gov/afghanistan/economic-growth

It's true, that the USA often can't win wars. We arguably lost the war in Afghanistan. But we can do business like nobody's business. So why not fight terrorism by fighting poverty?

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8 hours ago, El Mariachi said:

Thank you......I'm just f'ng sick of this shit. 231 +/-countries in this world.....doesn't mean we need to try and save every frickin one of them.

You are the dumbest cunt here Boothy.  Can't even get the basics.

Countries US has bombed since World War II

The conflict in Iran comes after decades of global interventions carried out by the States.

The US is said to have been involved in 32 distinct and separate bombing campaigns on 24 different countries between 1945 and 1999.

However, the listing below includes later operations as well, taking into account several Middle Eastern conflicts to demonstrate the scale of their overseas operations:

China 1945-46

Korea 1950-53

China 1950-53

Guatemala 1954

Indonesia 1958

Cuba 1959-60

Guatemala 1960

Belgian Congo 1964

Guatemala 1964

Dominican Republic 1965-66

Peru 1965

Laos 1964-73

Vietnam 1961-73

Cambodia 1969-70

Guatemala 1967-69

Lebanon 1982-84

Grenada 1983-84

Libya 1986

El Salvador 1981-92

Nicaragua 1981-90

Iran 1987-88

Libya 1989

Panama 1989-90

Iraq 1991

Kuwait 1991

Somalia 1992-94

Bosnia 1995

Iran 1998

Sudan 1998

Afghanistan 1998

Yugoslavia – Serbia 1999

Afghanistan 2001

Libya 2011

Iraq and Syria 2014 –

Somalia 2011 –

Iran 2020 –

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5 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Nope, the Taliban would have just taken the money.  Your belief in giving people money to solve a problem is kinda cutely naive.

It is also kind of cutely sarcastic, don't you think?  I guess that was lost on you.  Guess I have to stock up on purple font. 

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8 hours ago, Saorsa said:

You should go to war to stop some action of a state and punish them for their actions.

Once you have done that, tell them don't do that again or we will return.

Then go home and keep an eye on the fuckers.

Exactly.

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4 hours ago, Randorm said:

You are the dumbest cunt here Boothy.  Can't even get the basics.

Countries US has bombed since World War II

The conflict in Iran comes after decades of global interventions carried out by the States.

The US is said to have been involved in 32 distinct and separate bombing campaigns on 24 different countries between 1945 and 1999.

However, the listing below includes later operations as well, taking into account several Middle Eastern conflicts to demonstrate the scale of their overseas operations:

China 1945-46

Korea 1950-53

China 1950-53

Guatemala 1954

Indonesia 1958

Cuba 1959-60

Guatemala 1960

Belgian Congo 1964

Guatemala 1964

Dominican Republic 1965-66

Peru 1965

Laos 1964-73

Vietnam 1961-73

Cambodia 1969-70

Guatemala 1967-69

Lebanon 1982-84

Grenada 1983-84

Libya 1986

El Salvador 1981-92

Nicaragua 1981-90

Iran 1987-88

Libya 1989

Panama 1989-90

Iraq 1991

Kuwait 1991

Somalia 1992-94

Bosnia 1995

Iran 1998

Sudan 1998

Afghanistan 1998

Yugoslavia – Serbia 1999

Afghanistan 2001

Libya 2011

Iraq and Syria 2014 –

Somalia 2011 –

Iran 2020 –

Send in your name and address, I am sure we can fit you in :P

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5 hours ago, Rain Man said:

It is also kind of cutely sarcastic, don't you think?  I guess that was lost on you.  Guess I have to stock up on purple font. 

Hard to tell sometimes.  Looks like VP Harris is heading to Central America to top up the coffers and 'solve' the illegal immigration crisis, problem, event, opportunity.

 

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20 hours ago, nolatom said:

The usual war propaganda coming from CNN and NYT! Both pushed for the war in Iraq. Both never met a war they didn't like and both sponsored by the war industry.  Break out the Kool-Aid. 

 

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3 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Hard to tell sometimes.  Looks like VP Harris is heading to Central America to top up the coffers and 'solve' the illegal immigration crisis, problem, event, opportunity.

 

I wonder who she'll be wearing when she lands there......

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On 5/10/2021 at 6:52 AM, Timur said:

The bloodbath has begun and we have a long hot summer season of daily bombings and atrocities to suffer through.  Biden was stupid as fuck to publicly announcement the abandonment.  Of course, we really need to remember, and thank, George W. Bush ("Decider 41") for misdirecting our troops from Tora Bora to Bagdad, thereby assuring the 20 year war for nothing.  Enjoy the article

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/09/asia/afghanistan-girls-school-attack-intl-hnk/index.html

 

Abandonment???  They've have 20 years to get their shit together.  Literally 20 years of US protection, training, support, and probably close to a TRILLION $$ spent trying to put this shithole humpty-dumpty back together again.  Sorry, it's sink or swim time.  Perhaps the various Afghan gov't leaders should have thought about this many years ago and taken the offer of help more seriously instead of being their usual corrupt warlord selves only in it for the spoils of war. 

We should have abandoned that corrupt shithole in 2011 when we killed OBL.  Mission accomplished.

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20 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:
On 5/10/2021 at 7:12 PM, Saorsa said:

You should go to war to stop some action of a state and punish them for their actions.

Once you have done that, tell them don't do that again or we will return.

Then go home and keep an eye on the fuckers.

Exactly.

Yup.  

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4 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Abandonment???  They've have 20 years to get their shit together. 

The locals will be stoked.  20 years of trying to fuck off the invaders.

Once again to US gets it's arse kicked the fuck out.  Add one more country to the list HST was talking about.

3586802-Hunter-S-Thompson-Quote-If-we-ge

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31 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Abandonment???  They've have 20 years to get their shit together.  Literally 20 years of US protection, training, support, and probably close to a TRILLION $$ spent trying to put this shithole humpty-dumpty back together again.  Sorry, it's sink or swim time.  Perhaps the various Afghan gov't leaders should have thought about this many years ago and taken the offer of help more seriously instead of being their usual corrupt warlord selves only in it for the spoils of war. 

We should have abandoned that corrupt shithole in 2011 when we killed OBL.  Mission accomplished.

The "they" in your post is a bunch of butt-lickers the americans decided they liked. Not any leadership selected by the population.

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On 5/11/2021 at 12:12 PM, Saorsa said:

You should go to war to stop some action of a state and punish them for their actions.

Once you have done that, tell them don't do that again or we will return.

Then go home and keep an eye on the fuckers.

Can I just point out that the Taliban government had OBL arrested, but their requests for silly things like evidence and legal processes were just quite enough like the kangaroo court we were wanting.

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On 5/11/2021 at 12:12 PM, Saorsa said:

You should go to war to stop some action of a state and punish them for their actions.

Once you have done that, tell them don't do that again or we will return.

Then go home and keep an eye on the fuckers.

Y7KIren33U1yV6IZpb4fnONsXBryqccekcUVfdcI

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On 5/10/2021 at 2:15 PM, Danceswithoctopus said:

I'm getting terribly confused here. Is the vitriol towards Biden for this withdrawal because he's withdrawing in the first place, or because he delayed the timeline originally announced by Trump of May 1?

I asked in another Afghanistan thread whether anyone (except Olsonist) wants to bet me $20 that there's another delay?

If you really think our abandonment is going to happen on Biden's new, slower schedule, you can at least get $20 out of it...

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4 hours ago, Randorm said:

The locals will be stoked.  20 years of trying to fuck off the invaders.

Once again to US gets it's arse kicked the fuck out.  Add one more country to the list HST was talking about.

3586802-Hunter-S-Thompson-Quote-If-we-ge

You have a weird definition of "chased". The Taliban has nothing even remotely close to the ability to chase the USA out of anything.

OTOH blowing them up doesn't improve anything, there is always more of them someplace and they seem to like it anyway.

So....no chasing..........just realizing the issues of that country are not going to be fixed by any outside country ever and finding something better to do with our time and money.

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4 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

You have a weird definition of "chased". The Taliban has nothing even remotely close to the ability to chase the USA out of anything.

OTOH blowing them up doesn't improve anything, there is always more of them someplace and they seem to like it anyway.

So....no chasing..........just realizing the issues of that country are not going to be fixed by any outside country ever and finding something better to do with our time and money.

A lot of people (including a lot of US leaders) also have the mistaken idea that Afghanistan was somehow an actual real country, in times recent past. There's nothing to restore. They had no government, in the sense that we would recognize as such, and didn't want one.

The most organized Afghanistan has ever been was as a satrapy under a warlord claiming status as a monarch. Yes they have an elective assembly and some pretense at common democracy. Yes I think it's possible to put together something resembling an actual country, and it would be a good thing to do so... but I don't know how long or how much money it would take and I think the effort was a poor investment of US/Allied blood and treasure.

I'm kind of surprised that we didn't use the tactic of pretending to leave to bring the Taliban out of hiding so we could kill them, but I'm not interested in trying it now. I hope Biden sticks to the commitment to leave. News this morning showed some military and Afghan civilian workers loading trucks. No chasing.

- DSK

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9 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

A lot of people (including a lot of US leaders) also have the mistaken idea that Afghanistan was somehow an actual real country, in times recent past. There's nothing to restore. They had no government, in the sense that we would recognize as such, and didn't want one.

The most organized Afghanistan has ever been was as a satrapy under a warlord claiming status as a monarch. Yes they have an elective assembly and some pretense at common democracy. Yes I think it's possible to put together something resembling an actual country, and it would be a good thing to do so... but I don't know how long or how much money it would take and I think the effort was a poor investment of US/Allied blood and treasure.

I'm kind of surprised that we didn't use the tactic of pretending to leave to bring the Taliban out of hiding so we could kill them, but I'm not interested in trying it now. I hope Biden sticks to the commitment to leave. News this morning showed some military and Afghan civilian workers loading trucks. No chasing.

- DSK

Hindsight being 20/20, we probably should have encouraged the USSR to stay there instead of the opposite :rolleyes:

This also proves Machiavelli's premise that a disorganized "country" is easy to conquer and about impossible to rule, there is no central authority to replace.

 

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2 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Hindsight being 20/20, we probably should have encouraged the USSR to stay there instead of the opposite :rolleyes:

If there was a way for the Best Americans to make bank on it we would have found a way to get them to stay. 

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There have to be a lot of mixed feelings in the Pentagon.   On one hand, 20 years of forever war have been very good for weapons sales and careers.    On the other hand, public opinion has been very clear.    They can’t have a new war until they finish their old one.    Despite the occasional surge, this one has gotten stale.   Perhaps it’s in the MIC’s best interest to run away and start again somewhere else.   

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16 minutes ago, Lark said:

There have to be a lot of mixed feelings in the Pentagon.   On one hand, 20 years of forever war have been very good for weapons sales and careers.    On the other hand, public opinion has been very clear.    They can’t have a new war until they finish their old one.    Despite the occasional surge, this one has gotten stale.   Perhaps it’s in the MIC’s best interest to run away and start again somewhere else.   

^ this ^

the damn greedy little fucks need to show some common sense

- DSK

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1 hour ago, Lark said:

There have to be a lot of mixed feelings in the Pentagon.   On one hand, 20 years of forever war have been very good for weapons sales and careers.    On the other hand, public opinion has been very clear.    They can’t have a new war until they finish their old one.    Despite the occasional surge, this one has gotten stale.   Perhaps it’s in the MIC’s best interest to run away and start again somewhere else.   

The public is on to them, they need to pack the old war up and clean up all their mess first and THEN go looking for a new one.

Seriously, I think we have all colllectively caught on that keeping shitheads from killing each other doesn't do one thing to make the USA safer and annoys the shitheads. (apologies to singing pigs)

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I once heard an expression that goes something like "The Americans want peace in Afghanistan more than the Afghanis want peace in Afghanistan."

 

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Let me summarize this thread for y'll: 

1990: Saddam invades Kuwait

1991: Bush the Smarter invades Iraq, crushes Saddam, stops at the gates of Baghdad leaving Saddam in power

1992: Saddam attempts to assassinate Bush the Smarter

2001: OBL bombs Twin Towers

2002: Bush the Dumber corners OBL at Tora Bora.  Instead of cutting of head of snake, turns limited attention to Baghdad in attempt to revenge daddy's assassination attempt and show the old man he's just as tough.  OUR WAR IN AFGHANISTAN BEGINS

2003: Bush the Dumber invades Iraq to finish off what he thinks daddy should have done: Kill Saddam.

2004: Fiasco along the Tigris begins.  Decade later Obama (no relation to Osama) cleans up BOTH of Bush the Wiser and Bush the Dumbers messes by killing OBL and withdrawal from Iraq.

2021: Biden the Elder and Wiser gets us the hell out of Bush the Dumber's Tora Bora Mistake.

2022: Job done.

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Did I miss anything?  Or in summary: Republicans fuck up every foreign war and relationships and Democrats have to come along and clean their shit up. Time and again.

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17 minutes ago, Timur said:

Did I miss anything?  Or in summary: Republicans fuck up every foreign war and relationships and Democrats have to come along and clean their shit up. Time and again.

Yeah, you missed something. Obama kept us in Afghanistan. He did have OBL ventilated. So there's that. But he didn't leave the day after ventilation. In Vietnam, after the French left,  Johnson was responsible for our massive build up there. The Vietnam war was based on a lie, the Tonkin crisis just as W invaded Iraq on a lie. Yes, Nixon expanded the Vietnam War to Laos and Cambodia so that Kissinger could get he Peace Prize. But Johnson gets the blame for 'starting' the American phase of that civil war.

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3 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Hindsight being 20/20, we probably should have encouraged the USSR to stay there instead of the opposite :rolleyes:

 

 

Yes the US armed the Mujahideen who became the Taliban to fight the Russians then you went back to fight the same people you supported against Russia.

You did the same in Syria arming every Jihadi in the area to topple Assad who then joined the islamic state then you started fighting the same people you armed in Syria.

The Taliban taking control in Afghanistan is a consequence of the US supporting the Mujahideen there.

Have a look at pictures of Afghanistan in the 1960s-70s before Russia went in women were going to university they weren't wearing hijabs it shows how quick things can change when islamic rule takes over.

 

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9 hours ago, Randorm said:

The locals will be stoked.  20 years of trying to fuck off the invaders.

Once again to US gets it's arse kicked the fuck out.  Add one more country to the list HST was talking about.

3586802-Hunter-S-Thompson-Quote-If-we-ge

Which kinda perfectly proves the whole viability of the 2nd Amendment militia thing here in opposing an oppressive gov't, n'est-ce pas?

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3 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Which kinda perfectly proves the whole viability of the 2nd Amendment militia thing here in opposing an oppressive gov't, n'est-ce pas?

Not really. Someone is giving the Afghani's weapons and ammo, on a regular basis. I suppose if you are saying that the Trump Insurrectionists are going to get help from Russia, and that's a good thing, then yes, your analogy might hold water.

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9 hours ago, Randorm said:

The locals will be stoked.  20 years of trying to fuck off the invaders.

Once again to US gets it's arse kicked the fuck out.  Add one more country to the list HST was talking about.

3586802-Hunter-S-Thompson-Quote-If-we-ge

Out of curiosity, who were the other 4?  

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:
5 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Which kinda perfectly proves the whole viability of the 2nd Amendment militia thing here in opposing an oppressive gov't, n'est-ce pas?

Not really. Someone is giving the Afghani's weapons and ammo, on a regular basis. I suppose if you are saying that the Trump Insurrectionists are going to get help from Russia, and that's a good thing, then yes, your analogy might hold water.

The source of the small arms is somewhat irrelevant - the fact that a militia with little more than small arms was able to keep a superpower at bay for 20 years is the relevant fact when you idiots invariably chime in with "how is the militia going to do anything without nukes and aircraft carriers????"

And back to the source..... even these afghan militias and the general population started off with their own gunz in the beginning.  Even before the Soviets invaded them.  The fact that they had those weapons to survive long enough to convince an outside source that they were viable and worth supplying with arms is the real takeaway.  Conversely, both the Syrian and iraqi shia populace was effectively disarmed and they were easy prey for their uprising to be crushed.  

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Just now, Burning Man said:

The source of the small arms is somewhat irrelevant - the fact that a militia with little more than small arms was able to keep a superpower at bay for 20 years is the relevant fact when you idiots invariably chime in with "how is the militia going to do anything without nukes and aircraft carriers????"

And back to the source..... even these afghan militias and the general population started off with their own gunz in the beginning.  Even before the Soviets invaded them.  The fact that they had those weapons to survive long enough to convince an outside source that they were viable and worth supplying with arms is the real takeaway.  Conversely, both the Syrian and iraqi shia populace was effectively disarmed and they were easy prey for their uprising to be crushed.  

Not really, the Soviets (and the Americans) had it complete until someone started supplying weapons from the outside. The Shia were surrounded by Sunni, no way to get them arms. 

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2 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Yeah, you missed something. Obama kept us in Afghanistan. He did have OBL ventilated. So there's that. But he didn't leave the day after ventilation. In Vietnam, after the French left,  Johnson was responsible for our massive build up there. The Vietnam war was based on a lie, the Tonkin crisis just as W invaded Iraq on a lie. Yes, Nixon expanded the Vietnam War to Laos and Cambodia so that Kissinger could get he Peace Prize. But Johnson gets the blame for 'starting' the American phase of that civil war.

Wow, refreshing honesty from the left for once rather than "...... but the republicans......".  Thank you.

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2 hours ago, Bugsy said:

I once heard an expression that goes something like "The Americans want peace in Afghanistan more than the Afghanis want peace in Afghanistan."

 

100% true.

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Not really, the Soviets (and the Americans) had it complete until someone started supplying weapons from the outside. The Shia were surrounded by Sunni, no way to get them arms. 

Oh, and I didn't mean to imply that Uncle Vlad was the one providing the weapons, although I'm sure he was able to send in some things. No, we know that our friends the Pakis were the ones supplying the Pushtun/Talib.  

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5 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

The source of the small arms is somewhat irrelevant - the fact that a militia with little more than small arms was able to keep a superpower at bay for 20 years is the relevant fact when you idiots invariably chime in with "how is the militia going to do anything without nukes and aircraft carriers????"

And back to the source..... even these afghan militias and the general population started off with their own gunz in the beginning.  Even before the Soviets invaded them.  The fact that they had those weapons to survive long enough to convince an outside source that they were viable and worth supplying with arms is the real takeaway.  Conversely, both the Syrian and iraqi shia populace was effectively disarmed and they were easy prey for their uprising to be crushed.  

Bullshit, several different kinds and flavors

Do you even believe half of what you're trying to push here?

1- no, the source of small arms is not irrelevant, because you're basing you're assumption that they'll appear like magic because you want them

2- it took a lot more than small arms, anti-air and anti-armor weapons are very prevalent in the example you're trying to cite

Remember giving Stingers to the mujahadeen

- DSK

 

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5 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Bullshit, several different kinds and flavors

Do you even believe half of what you're trying to push here?

1- no, the source of small arms is not irrelevant, because you're basing you're assumption that they'll appear like magic because you want them

2- it took a lot more than small arms, anti-air and anti-armor weapons are very prevalent in the example you're trying to cite

Remember giving Stingers to the mujahadeen

- DSK

 

How many US aircraft have been shot down in Afghanistan with shoulder fired SAMs??  How many tanks taken out with anti-armor weapons?  To my knowledge, pretty close to zero.  We might have lost a few helos to small arms fire and most armor was taken out with homemade IEDs.  

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Just now, Burning Man said:

How many US aircraft have been shot down in Afghanistan with shoulder fired SAMs??  How many tanks taken out with anti-armor weapons?  To my knowledge, pretty close to zero.  We might have lost a few helos to small arms fire and most armor was taken out with homemade IEDs.  

And yet, we're leaving. 

One small difference, Afghanistan is 10,000 miles away and no one here cares. Texas is a lot closer.  

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3 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

And yet, we're leaving. 

One small difference, Afghanistan is 10,000 miles away and no one here cares. Texas is a lot closer.  

And the "And yet we're leaving" reinforces my point.  One doesn't need to compete with a superpower at their own game to defeat them.  

And yes TX is a lot closer, but there's a lot more armed boys in TX and the surrounding states than there is in Afghanistan.  

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2 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

And the "And yet we're leaving" reinforces my point.  One doesn't need to compete with a superpower at their own game to defeat them.  

And yes TX is a lot closer, but there's a lot more armed boys in TX and the surrounding states than there is in Afghanistan.  

I've seen the militia in action. They are angry, but organized and deadly to a well trained force that is ready to put them down, they are not. 

That's not the issue, the question is will the force be ready to put them down? We're starting to hear that the Capitol defense wasn't 100% committed. Some of them were and gave their lives. Others, not so much.  The rot in the security apparatus will be the deciding factor.